I'm Brandon. And I'm Jesse we're. Cannabis school having cannabis infused conversations. With everyday. People, cannabis companies, celebrities, and your mom. Welcome to the SASH. Cool thing. I'm working with this functional medicine clinic dude, and they had this awesome thing. They're like, they've got everything from this huge hyperbaric chamber. If you want to be able to do that, red light therapy, ketamine treatments, IV treatments, you. Can pass it.
That's a lot. It's a lot, yeah. Yeah, it's a lot I. Didn't think it's big enough. No, it's just a big, big ass hit on there. So you're good. Yeah, this piece has some quite the hits it can take. Well, they had this cool thing called Brain Tap. You ever heard of that? Oh dude, it's fucking cool. You would love it. It literally feels like a mushroom trip. OK, and wait, what? Where'd you?
Get you have headphones and an advisor and the advisor has light and they have light going through your ears too and they use it where there will be a guided one and it will tell you through it but it will be saying almost subliminal messages on the side and dude and within 5 minutes you're you don't feel your body anymore without. Drugs. This is without drugs. Oh, I need to buy that sucker. Dude, it is. It's amazing. I cannot even conceptualize how somebody can be in a hypnotic
state without. Yeah, I'm just not even like, you're gonna tell me all these subliminum? I'm thinking about my business, guys. Have you? I bet. So the only time I've ever experienced anything like that without drugs, Wim Hof breathing. I, I when you said that, I was gonna say I've done it with with breathing, but not that. It's still not as intense. Yeah, I've been 30. Minutes straight that I was
doing it and I'm like. Mine was like a a week, several weeks in a row that I had gotten to it and it was in my holding breath state. And it was, I'd got to four minutes of holding my breath. Yeah. And in that time, every fiber of my being was I felt like I was so high. I felt tingling through everything and it was the most incredible experience and I was like, this is just from breathing.
Dude, yeah, that's it. That one time I was over at Adam's house and he had, we did this guided breathing, right? And dude, by the time like I was this what? I felt like I was in the middle. I was floating up like that chick and Stranger Things, right? I'm like floating into the sky. And it was, everything was white. There was no seams. It was just white. And I'm floating up.
And then this guy goes and let out your roar and he hits his gong and the whole sky just went like rainbow shit everywhere. And I was like what the fuck? And I'm floating. And when I came out of it, dude, I was fucking bawling. I didn't even know that. And Adam was bawling. And this other dude, he was bawling. Like I was just like, what the fuck? I couldn't even realize it. Like it was just gone to another dimension. I, I did one with the lady in
Orem and she had a gong too. And she's like scream, you know? And then she's like, you won't even be able to hear yourself scream with this gong so fucking loud. And at the end, you know, 11 girl sharing her experience and in tears. No, no, first one. She's like that was the most beautiful experience. Like it was orgasmic for me. And then the lady next to her, she's like crying. She's like, man, how are you having that experience? That'd. Be awesome, right? You're having that orgasm.
States that you can get in I I do breath work while I'm in the ice bath. I'll do a minute of just normal breathing and then two minutes of hyperventilating and then hold my breath and it makes it actually wait. I mean the whole Wim Hof thing is how to control your body.
Temperature. Yeah. Well, I I've seen what got me into trying it was I started watching these videos, it was popping up and it was all this stuff on Wim Hof. And it was Wim Hof out sleeping in snow in shorts and regulating his body temperature through the night just from the breathing that he does. Him getting injected with an actual disease or illness, then watching it go into his body and then he made using blood like his breathing to fight it off and basically kill or remove
that. And I was like, this is incredible. And the fact that he could teach. Yeah, that was it. So that then they're like, OK, you're just a fucking weirdo. Yeah, nobody else. That's just you're an anomaly. And then he took like a dozen people. Yeah, hiking up Count or Mount Kilimanjaro in their shorts. Taught them. Taught them how to. They also taught them. To to resist that bacteria. Yeah. And so that, that was when it
was like, OK, cool. Well then there's something maybe that I could do. And I, I still haven't done it regularly continuing now. But like back then, I did it for several weeks and I got to that point and I was like, holy cow. It's powerful stuff, yeah. Just just not as easy as eating mushrooms, yeah. I know, right? I've noticed that's helped me a lot. I have been doing quite a bit of micro dosing this last month. So yeah, it's been. Good. No, it's been really good. Oh, let's.
I'm feeling it now. Yeah, this is a great way to start, Yeah. Blue City Diesel. Welcome to this sash. Yeah, hey everybody. And we have a wonderful friend of ours, Ben and Maxwell. Super cool guy. We'll get into everything about him, but man, dude, thank you for. Coming dude, thanks for the invite. This is long overdue 'cause last time, yeah, we were gonna do. We got way too high. We got way too high before it even started, and then we spent two hours at Smith's buying
snacks. Before we ever even got to set up, record or do anything. Yeah, we got back and we were just too high, you know. But it's kind of good though, because, you know, so much has changed. We we have this brand new episodes that come out on Thursdays now and the audience has absolutely loved it. They have gone nuts for it. Our our numbers are showing it and we're seeing so much more traffic from it.
So we just keep creating this. But man, the coolest thing is, is knowing this guy, So how we met was we were looking for companies to sponsor, sponsor the podcast. And I saw a cookie company and I was high. And I said, you know what, I'm gonna reach out to him. And I reach out and their marketing girl's like, yeah, you wants to talk to you. And they're like, oh, cool. And we start talking and then we just find out that we're both
into cannabis. And, you know, nothing materialized out of this sponsorship thing. But what? Just a good friend. Yeah. An amazing. Friend, we don't have money. Well, I mean, but. But that's the thing though, it doesn't even matter because, you know, it was so much cooler because we just thought, you know, cookies and cannabis that meshes now you're everywhere, right? I mean, how many? How? Where are you really like?
We are in 20 something states. I was, I was trying to count and I think we're anyways, we got two more states opening this month. So that's awesome. It's exciting. Yeah, we're at 70 something. That's great. That's fantastic. And it wasn't there before. When we first met, it was. Like, yeah, I mean, we went from 7 to 70 in in a year. That's an that's that's. Crazy. And, and these are Dirty Dough's a cookie franchise, So these are brick and mortar stores or food trucks or whatever.
Yeah, that's, that's amazing. Most people still know about what Dirty Dough is, but that's a well, that's what we're trying to create, yeah. Well, I mean, definitely we'll we'll have to get like a, a list of those places and, and put them up for everybody around here so you guys can go enjoy these this man's cookies. Wow, that sounded bad. Go go get this man's cookies. Kind of cradle them. It was right before this Jesse for the first time asked if he could put some of my nuts in his.
Mouth. Yeah, I was over there, you guys, these pistachios. I'm like, hey man, I've never asked this of you, but let me grab some of your nuts. Sorry for breaking up that bromance. No, I'm doing well, you know. Jesse's washing his hands. I was like, what are you doing over there? I'm washing them, rubbing, rubbing alcohol like going to put this in my. Eyes too, I want to forget. That that last strain just took me to a different place.
No. But you know, dude, one of the coolest things about you is, you know, I think it's awesome what you built super cool and where you came from and, and knowing your past and where you, you know, where, where it originated from. Like all of this about you. But I wanted to dig in more into what normally you don't get asked on other podcasts, 'cause it's all about like your journey and your, your success and everything like that with it. But man, there's so much more to you.
Like a really cool part that I don't think people get to know. At all. Now's the time because I'm high. So yeah, dude. That's not it's a nice strain. Dude, I mean, that was a big hit I give you. That well, I tried it. I'm like this thing's not clearing it. I just got. Do you go to? Another are you at a good? I don't know, you're doping right now. You alright? OK, I'll do that. I know you just dude. Then daddy says you are my daddy when it comes to cannabis. Like obviously.
Just you're good right now. I can see you right now, dude. I see the glass going over the dog eye. And to let you know, I like, dude, I just came from a whole week of being off cannabis. I was having debilitating panic attacks for no reason. Things are going great and just my body dealing with shit and bringing it to the forefront as you know, like you're big into mental health and that just it was, it was harsh. So I was really nervous today about trying any. But it's so far so.
Ah dude, I'm feeling great. This is the best I've felt in all week. But you know, you grew up here in Utah and you grew up in the culture, but you had things happen to you when you were a kid that kind of steered you towards where you are now. Where do you think that point was? As far as leaving the religion
and mindset. No, I'm talking like when you were a kid, 'cause I know that came, but when you were a kid and all the things that you did during that time kind of shaped you to where I think you are to do that. I mean on the OK, what? What aspect of our life? Business aspect? No, not even that I wanna. Talk about your your life man, but like. Man, I haven't thought about that.
I'm like, well, here's my answer about what drove me to be a salesperson and entrepreneur, and here's my answer on that. Yeah, no, just life. Like life, man. Like you were a kid. Your parents went through a divorce. How old were you when you were? There maybe eight. OK. Yeah. So yeah, I think I could start thinking about that a little bit more. Who am I and why am I that way? I'm pretty and I, and it's funny 'cause now I'm actually trying to reverse that quality.
Very goal oriented and driven and like I need to achieve, achieve more, more, more, more, more, more, which on the outside it's like, oh, that's, that's awesome because straight A student and Allstate sports and you know, scholarships to college and business success. But it on the flip side and why I'm trying to reverse it and I'm like that it's just not fulfilling 'cause you just want more and then never is enough. So I'm trying to kind of reverse that.
I think I grew up with that. It was, you know, parents got divorced, one of nine kids and I was number seven. I think your parents kind of stopped caring after me before. Paying as much attention. Well, and and single mom, she's also working. She's like, I'm waking up in elementary, waking up my little brothers, making us eggs, and then going and walking to the neighbor's house to go get a ride, you know? So because of that, it was just like, if you want something done, just go get it.
You want money, go sell shaved dice, go sell snow shovels, door to door, lawn aeration. Like I was kind of doing it all. What is that? So. These are amazing. Flint mints. So these ones actually help with dry mouth. I should have asked what it was. I mean, I should have let you answer me if I put it in my. Mouth We reached out to him. We're like, Hey, 'cause we, we. Too much trust.
Yeah, no, dude, no worries. And but that would be the most expensive drug dispenser I've ever seen you just like yeah, we bought like 15,000,000 of these just to try out. But these are pretty cool. I saw them advertising for well, Brandon says it's best, right? What their? Their. Their Dick sucking. Man is like every commercial, it's a girl with their. Mowing or something like. It's going to be the sloppiest blowjob of your life, right? So it's just like, you know, it
just they have these like. Don't love it till you try it. But I was thinking like they they have on their website, they're like, it's good for cannabis. And I was like, ma'am, they should definitely be in front of our audience because it's just they're super tasty and they help with dry mouth instead of just sucking back. Water and the one like the dose on them is usually 3 mints and that's one. And they have different strengths, but this one's 250. And a ton of flavors.
And, and they're really nice. But anyways, so it's not drugs, but yeah, it's exactly like your, your whole, your whole paradigm of being a kid is no longer being a kid. Now it's sharing the responsibility of helping to raise kids and help out with the house and everything like that 'cause you had to grow up really fast. Yeah, so I, I the the pro to that was just like, you can do whatever you want to do. You don't need anybody else.
And that's very, very helpful. And I do my best to teach my kids that like, hey, Daddy, can I go pet the, the that dog? I don't know. Go ask, you know, and it's like teaching them because I, I think that that is very empowering. But at the same time, the, the, the way I guess I'm trying to parent versus how I was parented or the lack thereof was I felt like I needed to do that to survive. Where with my kids, it's like, no, no, no, you, you are safe. I have you. That's my job.
But you could, but you could go play and stuff. But you can also go learn that if you want stuff, you can have it. If you just freaking ask like we last time we wanted on the plane. She's like, can I go see the captain? I'm like if you want, it's up to you. You just gotta ask. She goes up there and then she's gone for a few minutes, so I'm like, OK, I'm gonna go follow her. I mean, I've seen she's in the captain's chair with the captain's hat.
She's six years old. She did it by herself. And then the, you know, Lila's right behind her, a four years old, five years old, whatever. And then the same thing and she goes and asks and so, so that it, it is very cool that I can look back and how what I learned and it's like there's good and bad to everything. Just perspective. But now how can I enhance the good and mitigate the bad as I parent and I love parenting. Yeah, you. I love trying to figure it figure it out and.
Yeah, following you on social media, you know, it's not in, in I I mean, I'll call a spade a spade. You know, you usually see these like people that will put out their life on on social and it's such a fabricated bullshit story, but you feel that with yours, like it's genuine you you really focus to have quality time with your kids and you make sure that you have that. Oh, every day there's no, no days that it's not a Daddy daughter day.
Even my son still says Daddy daughter dates 'cause he doesn't get it. Last night went to Macy's and I'm like, and it was just us. I said this is boys night. OK, if you want this, this is boys night. So we had our first boys night without him calling it Daddy daughter night. No, but that is a big passion of mine. And that sure does that come from your childhood? Yeah, I mean, how do you like thinking of legacy and what you leave behind?
It's it's your kids for me, you know, it's like that. That's what I'm leaving behind. And you can go make a bunch of money and people remember you till you till two days after you're dead, right. And with that money you can make an impact how, I don't know, buying people stuff, giving them food home, but I don't even think that that is really helping. I, I think it's a philosophy that needs to be spread about and, and mindset and
perspective. That's why you have suicide rates in Kenya, 1/3 of the United States, you know, because. Crazy. It's it's a different mindset and they're fine with the life that they have where we're not fine. And so I'm just like more money. If we gave Kenyans more money, they're just gonna end up like us. And it's actually not helping. So what's not quite to happiness? I, I think it's again, philosophy and how can I best spread my philosophy of whole?
I'm freaking. I got these three little creatures. I could start with them. So, yeah, I, I, I don't know, my belief on everything is that we're not in control of anything. So it, it, it, it will ultimately come down to like, I think it's luck like 1000%. It's just, I got dealt the genetics in this environment and I responded to it the way that I responded it to. So I can't really pinpoint why I value something more than something else.
Well, I don't think anybody can. So that's, that's a little, little preference, but everything that's happened, it allows me to then look back with gratitude and like that happened because it happened and nothing else could have happened like from a physical atomic standpoint, if the universe was in the same state the same. Reality would have happened, yeah. So it's, it's, it's a mindset that's really helped me and that that is something that I'd like to, you know, like to talk about.
That's cool. Especially my kids. Yeah, 'cause I mean, you're, you're very evident and that's great because you given that, you know, you actually have an impact when you are involved parenting to actually have an impact on the future because you're helping to spread that that mindset, that philosophy, because it's really easy to get distracted right now. And as you, you worked hard your whole life, you always strive for success.
You hit all that success. And something we talked about here, you had a company in California, you sold that you come into money. What does that do to? You. That was the best thing for me because I realized this is my realization. I was 310 lbs. I was, I was, I was not fighting with my wife. So to me we have a perfect marriage right? To her we're roommates. My dumb ass doesn't even freaking realize this.
I don't even have a good relationship with my wife and I'm too dumb to even realize it. And I don't have a great relationship really with anybody, especially myself and my health because money money money money. Once I achieve XYZ then then the rest of my life is solved and I could then focus on my health and relationships. So that was $1,000,000 wanted $1,000,000 net worth and I hit that and it feels great. You know, check the bank
account, cool. And then a few days goes by, a few weeks goes by and I reverse to the same habits and at the same time I was watching Billions on Amazon. Prime Oh yeah dude, that's a good show. So. I noticed I had $1,000,000 goal before I was thirty hit it and within a a week or so I'm already that's not enough like it's it doesn't feel. Different. Where's your next goal? Yeah. I I need more. I need 5 million now. Yeah.
Cuz with 5 million out of 5% interested annuity, then I could take it, you know, like, yeah, but the point is it's just the next goal. And Bobby Axelrod was a billionaire, and this is a fictional character, but still hit me. Yeah. And he hit a $10 billion net worth. And you know what he did? He felt unfulfilled. And he did an ayahuasca retreat. And I'm like, OK, So whether it's one million, I think the pattern is I'm gonna do the same thing till I get to Bobby Axelrod and he sells it.
And then she did. So my goal needs is, is, is, is wrong. So coming and getting some money allowed me to go through what I say is my midlife crisis. But I was only 28 and it started me down a mental health journey. I started seeing a therapist. I started trying to understand thoughts and consciousness and purpose and meaning. And then that led me to create my own mission statement for my personal life, which and then was adopted by my company.
And then now it's like, I know what I'm doing, I know what I want, and I know how I'm achieving in that. And yeah, you can make tweaks there, here and there. But I ran the 1st 28 years of my life of well I want more money because with more money I could do things. And that was just like super superficial. So it's not that way then? No, So what what I narrowed it down to is like, well, it's just about being happy, right? And then thinking about it more, it's like, well, no, not
happiness. Because if you're not happy every day, which is impossible to be happy every day, then you're getting it down on yourself because now you're not achieving your mission or goal and you know, OK, so but maybe joy because you could, you know, a, a joyful life with up and downs. OK, so joy, so can you smoke weed and, you know, down by the van and and that's all you need. Well, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Someone who chose to do that. But I'm like, but why would I do that? Like that would just not give me joy. You wouldn't feel fulfilled. Because of that and that that's where the second word came in, fulfillment. And and then it's like, OK, as humans we need progress. That's where fulfillment comes from. So doing nothing, even if you're in a happy state of mind at the time, is not going to lead to fulfilled life. So I narrowed it down to finding
joy and fulfillment. And then I threw in despite life's dirtiness, 'cause my company's dirty dope. But it's don't wait to sell your solar company to find joy and fulfillment 'cause I was waiting. I was waiting to I was waiting for something to happen. You have to hit a goal to get that happiness. Happiness will come once I achieve XYZ. Yep. So it's. It's have it now and stop delayed gratification. Shit dude, doesn't matter if you're happy right now.
Just keep the commandments, follow my my church and then you'll be rewarded in heaven. And you're like, I don't want to wait that long. I don't want to wait that long, especially when there's no guarantee that if I pay you. Well, it's living for tomorrow. It's living for a future of some other time instead of like. Well, it's living for somebody else and that's the problem. It's when we live for somebody else and and not for you'll be good.
We'll give you CBD. Yeah, no worries dude, you'll be good. But it, it definitely is a, you know, when you mention that cause I've heard so many different people where money absolutely destroyed their lives. It just totally fucked them up. But I, I love that perspective that you have 'cause you're like, I gotta keep going. I gotta keep going. And you get there and you're like, cool, check the bank
account. Cause I've heard of that where you, you come into money, you know, you worked hard, you get it. And then after you're like, So what? Yeah, and, and here's the thing, it's not money. It's it's just any goal. How did you 2 feel if you thought that you had, if you could imagine, hey, we're gonna start a cannabis podcast and it's gonna be listened to all over the world like that thought in your mind, how did you think you were going to feel?
Probably like that's it. That's all I ever need in life is to have one of the top podcasts where you're here now and does it feel that good. It just feels like any other day. Like before, so it's you don't have to get $1,000,000, just apply it to any goal you've ever set in your life that you've achieved and say, how did I think I was going to fill and how long did I think I was going to fill that? Look back, see that it was empty
and you're like $1,000,000. It's the exact same thing, the exact same thing. It's just a different goal being achieved. But it's just that's how we are as humans. You have to go back to homeostasis to, to be in survival mode because I need to go hunt, I need to go forge, I need to protect myself. So it's your dopamine gets reset so freaking quickly. Like it's just gone. It comes and it's gone.
So that way you can get the next dopamine hit, you know, from smelling a flower and being near berries. Like that's kind of more human evolution. But that's, that's how I feel. That's why we're wired that way. That's incredible. Was that insights that have just come since doing therapy and this? The podcast. OK. Yeah, I mean, just think. You start plant medicine in that journey. Or was plant medicine something you had introduced prior to your sales of the solar company?
It started shortly after that I saw it. So now I have my mission statement. Now what do I do with this? Well, now I need to create my what's? Your mission statement. The finding joy and fulfillment despite life's sturdiness and then I put in myself and others. Myself has to come first and then and the other people, OK, now I need to do my company's mission statement. And my business coach was like, you idiot, that is your company's mission statement
'cause you are your company. So like, OK, cool, now how am I going to do that? And OK, if it's joint fulfillment, how do you give more joint fulfillment? I kind of already explained it's philosophy in my opinion. What's philosophy? That's mindset. What's mindset? Mental health. It's just people like, oh, mental health, what mindset? Cool. But whatever, it's the same, same damn thing. So mental health, that's what I wanted to focus on. So how do I now incorporate that
into the business? And I was talking with a buddy because you have to go to mushrooms because it's like, I don't know how I want to attach this. And he goes, you have to do mushrooms. So it's like, I don't do drugs, you know? Yeah, I'm not a druggie. And because I I just, I hadn't, I'd never even heard what mushrooms works over in high. School and everyone has the stigma. Heroin, meth, mushrooms, LSD, OK boom. One baggage, don't touch it. Slippery slope and and but yeah,
so it led me to that. And then getting into psychedelics has furthered all of that because it's to analyze consciousness and your thoughts and all. You can do it in normal states, but it's hard. Like, so I can walk here or I can drive here. Like I use a tool to to be more efficient. And that's how I view psychedelics. It's a it's a tool to be more efficient in achieving, you know, depending on what your goals are.
But man, psychedelics are freaking awesome because this is, yeah, this is where I explore all this thing, all of these different topics that really fascinate me. That's cool. That's cool. And and cannabis came in and around about the same time. Maybe a year before just 'cause I was in California so it was legal and I didn't have any really stigma that. I mean, other than growing up religiously though, I was like, oh, you know, cannabis is is low key on the drug scale.
So it counts for about a year, OK. And yeah, and that and that kind of helped graduate everything else. Yeah, now I get to the point that like even as I'm like, it doesn't matter. I can get as high as what as my body will handle and I'm fine. Like I'm comfortable enough with hell that I've gone through with mushrooms that I'm just like their thoughts and that's what they are and they'll go away. This experience will pass, yeah.
Yeah, so or, and now that does make me a lot more open to kind of everything. That's cool because I'm like, I know I can handle it and I also trust my ability in controlling myself totally. Yeah. Out of all those like plant medicines that you've gone through, have you found one that has been more beneficial or more like impactful in your journey? Mushrooms.
Because mushrooms we're the 1st. I mean, taking a A6 gram mushroom trip after several other trips that were all terrible, Terrible meaning, not positive emotions, right? Not terrible. And the fact that I'm telling you this changed my life. I wanted to kill myself. Like legitimately, I'm like, if there's a knife right here, I'm gonna stab myself because I don't know who I am.
I don't know what I want. My life is worthless or that like just felt deep despaired, meaningless, like I'd never felt like that. So one that was amazing because I get that that's real. But before, I mean, even before I started seeing a therapist, like I'm talking three years ago, I thought anxiety, depression and headaches where in your mind? I even because I don't get headaches, it's like, oh, that's just think happy thoughts. Like just that's for whatever reason, that was my thought
process. So it's definitely changed a ton. And then being fascinated. So now I could empathize with other people and then it also fascinated that why that desire in there? I have to go figure that out. Yeah. I have to go do 8G now to show that I've conquered it, but because they've been the most negative experiences of my life I've learned the most from. Them interesting. Has almost every experience been negative then?
If I just do mushrooms, yes, if I'm like perfect on my, my breath work before some red light, a little bit of marijuana, then then you know, or, or if I'm putting it with a little bit of ketamine, then yes. If it's just mushrooms, it's like I, I'm, I'm going to just feel like a lot of self hatred, almost despair for a while. It's, it's more like what's the point of everything? I, I like just go to the end of the life.
I'm. Like do you have a specific playlist that you're listening to when you do that or is it just no music or? I I. I tried a bunch of different. I've, yeah, I've, I've tried it all. Interesting. Yeah, that's just where my mind goes. Yeah, I've had some really tough good, like really good experiences, but in the moment, like really hard to go through. I've had 1-6 grand trip and that was like I was trying to decide if I was going to get back together with my ex-wife.
It was this big mess of back and forth. And I'd gone down to see that like my kids and my ex-wife and then came back and it was a big mess. And my buddy's like, you need a a trip. And I was like, yeah, I do. And he's like, do you trust me? And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to make you a smoothie and I'll tell you how much was in it after your trip. And I'm like, cool, I'm OK with that. And the next day he was like, yeah, it was like 6 point something. I was like.
All right. Yeah, well, it was. I was needed. So it was definitely an experience. But like in that time I saw, so I have the old like sparkly ceiling and at night when it's lit up, it's like it looks like, it looks like galaxies. Yeah, I know, right. And so it looks like I saw like a big old lion in the galaxies in it and stuff and just really interesting. But most psilocybin experiences I feel like aren't crazy visual. I've never gone too high on it.
I mean, the most I've done is 3 and I'm just incredibly happy. I mean, I did realize I hated myself. And and a mushroom trip lasts four to six hours. I don't know. And and it's 45 minutes kind of start feeling it. I start feeling like shit from a minute 45 to for an hour and 15 and then it's blissful and I get a look back at it and and enjoy it. So I I should preface, it's not six hours of health.
It's 30 minutes to an hour and a half, but it seems like forever and then I come out of it and then I'm open, I'm talkative, my vulnerability's down. I have great comfort and and and it's been it's also amazing if doing it to connect with other people, especially like I've I've done it with brothers and sister or sister-in-law and we. Did we've done it, Yeah.
We've done it, and it's like you just connect with people that you've known your entire life on a completely different level because of that vulnerability and that ego, the default mode network of the brain is gone. Yeah. And it's so interesting because you can connect with like the just the genuine human inside, but it's so we're so disconnected from that all the time. Yeah, but I mean it, it also, I mean it 'cause that kind of ties into your professional, personal life, right?
I mean, I could only imagine that there's this misconception that people have of you because you have a business, because you've had success, all these things. I mean, the, I feel like, you know, when you use like plant medicine, like I've, I've said this to so many people and everybody's like, Oh yeah, no matter where you are, if you smell that sweet, sweet smell, we all of a sudden you could make a friend right away going, hey, which, what is that?
Like, oh, that smells dank. They're like. And they always go here you go, right? Like no. 4:20 And we were, I was hobbling back to the car and Jesse's carrying the box and these two people are sitting down by the Bush lighting a pipe. And I was like, what you got over there, like. He just goes here. You go and I was like, I was just in a weird spot, 'cause my head and my like leg and everything and I'm like, yeah, fuck it, I'll take a hit. So I take a hit and I'm like keep going.
But it's just like, it was great. Just instant community but like. Yeah, look, anywhere, anywhere. You, you, you instantly like I had this crazy story. That's, that's really cool. I've never even thought about that, but it is so true. Totally it. What dude, the craziest story? I met this guy from Chicago and he, he's not from Chicago, he's from California. He gets placed in Chicago. He's a photographer for cannabis
businesses. And so he takes Google Maps to walk to his apartment 'cause he doesn't know where he's at, But he says, I'm gonna get a, a big walk. I'm gonna do this walk through this neighborhood. It takes him through one of the worst, most violent cities, little communities in the city of Chicago. And it's nothing but black guys. This guy is a white dude from California. And they they get him like some guy stopped and they're like, what the hell are you doing
here? He's all, I'm just walking through like you rocked in the whole fucking neighborhood. He pulls out his hat and pulls out a joint. He goes an offering and they're all they smoked the joint and then they walked him through the neighborhood and then he met some cops. Like they have, it's like some Demolition man shit. You ever seen that movie you had? You're not a movie guy. You haven't seen Demolition. You got to see that. But you remember that like, there's like the cities, like
parts of the city are blocked. Up by the cops. And it's to keep people from coming into the other city and keep you from going in. And they were like, are you OK? And you're like, yeah, I just ran into these guys and we just hit. It off or they're like fucky shit. That's what I I was knocking doors in Chicago and scared for my life all the time. Like literally saw somebody get robbed right right right as I'm knocking, door behind me and the car screeching off and
everything. If I would have just rolled around with some joints. Right. Everyone's so much happier. They're like, oh, sure, so. The one not the one there's 1000 beautiful things of the culture that I was raising one of the the ones that I I've like, man, they such a good job in building a culture of the Mormon religion that I could go to any country, literally any country. I feel like I could look up thelds.org, find a church house,
find the Bishop, call them. I need a place to stay tonight and I got a place to stay anywhere in the world. True. And I'm like, that community is so cool and I don't have anything even close. Outside of that, Outside of that. And then I'm like, oh, that, you know, there are other things. I'm just, I thought it had to be church and it doesn't have to be church, No. So anyways, that was. That's kind of crazy, right? Because cannabis is the great
uniter. I mean, I always tell people like, and Brandon knows, I joke around and I say I convert more people to cannabis than to Christ and they go, how do you do that? And I go, well, if you want to be more like him, smoke this and you'll get that experience. Cause truly, like there's nobody we've ever met like we did the 420 over at Dragonfly. They invited us. They're like, hey, just come up, set up a table. We'll let you have it. And you guys can just talk with
people. And it was, it was cool in the sense it wasn't, it wasn't what they thought it was going to be. Definitely not. But it was cool because everybody there was just close. Like nobody's a Dick when they show up with cannabis. They're like, if dudes are like, you're not smoking cannabis dude, you're fucking doing cocaine and sleeping pills. Like what the fuck? Is wrong with. What you do? Cocaine. Sleeping pills. You're just like fucking dude, it just whatever.
But anybody using cannabis immediately, like there is no like there's no division as far as like whatever stayed in life, 'cause you were. Just like who cares? Yeah, it doesn't even matter. Yeah. And that's what's so cool. Like that's, that's how our friendship built, right? And it's only been off of that. Like it's not, it's not like what's in it for me. But do you feel like sometimes? That that's what the relationship is. With some people that you meet.
Oh yeah, and I don't care. No, but I mean but but it but it started happening. What was it like? It's way different. Well, yeah, I started joining masterminds and crap and then I'm like, I'm going in there because I don't know anything and I want to go learn stuff and but I'm like, oh, but I do actually have a big business. You know, I have 100 plus employees and we're do decent and I walk in and I'm and I and it felt like I was the oh go sell him. Oh yeah.
Marketing company, this and that and I was just always being pitched everything and I hated that because I hate disappointing people and I don't like telling people no. So I'm like, yeah, we'll look into it, but I'm like. So you're a pleaser. Yes, yes, yes. Because I was on the other end. Like all, I wanted people to just hear me out. That was my plea. Just hear me out and I promise you, you'll buy solar because it's so such a no brainer in California. You save money. Just hear me out.
So like, I felt I owed that to everybody. To just hear out. Just hear me out. Enough doors to go like, hey, I just want you to hear my pitch and you're like, so. Do you still do that to this day? No, no, no. So you're. Very, very poor. You're just like, hey, we're good. I'm not interested and if it does I'll I'll change. I mean, I'll let you know, but it has nothing if, if, if I'm doing that because when I knocked doors and people told me
no and I took that personally. So now if you ask me to buy something and I tell you no or I can't tell you no, 'cause you're gonna take that personally either way, that's that. That's all me. That's me just reflecting, man. That's. Super healthy, that's all. Just reflect. So now it's like, OK, if you take that personal, and if you don't, either way, it doesn't matter to me. That's on you. Yeah, that's it. You can tell them what you want and then they can take it how they want like it's.
That's a good evolution man 'cause that's that's I think that's kind of hard either way, 'cause you could live with that going oh man, I should have talked to him, but I know it just. And, and, and that's the the other sales pitch. And I use the same thing. It's like, oh, well, you don't know how much money you could be saving. I'm like, and this is my response every time. And it literally works every time. And it's 100% true.
And I said, well, listen, I, I get 20 people trying to change, you know, pitching me on a different software marketing company a week. So you, you every week I'm passing up on at least 20 opportunities to save money. Just so you know, you're not the only one. And they don't say anything 'cause it's like what? Can they say? Wait, wait. But yeah, yeah, no, you, no, you need to listen to everybody. It's like you listen to everybody. You don't get anything done. You have no time.
That is my response. And that is true. It's just like it has nothing to do with you. And I know I could be making your own decision. And I made twenty other wrong decisions. This. Week, you don't have time to make every right decision. So that's just what you do. You make a shit ton of wrong decisions and a few good ones and it goes good. Well, and that's the thing too, man. Like, even like, I don't know if
I told you that story. Brandon's heard the story before, but when I was at a networking group, this guy came up to me and he's got podium on his hat, podium on his shirt, going down his fucking pant leg. And I asked him, I'm like, do you work for work front? And he goes, no, I work for podium. And I'm like, oh cool. And then he goes on like he's so excited to pitch me what he did, 'cause that's all they're taught.
It's just like tell everybody. And he is just like, like almost like he's like, you know, fucking jump out of his chair. He's gotta tell me, 'cause all I'm like, hey man, tell me what you do when you're not being businessman. Like let's little learn about you. So there's another one that that does that. So like the kind of the ones that cost, I don't know, between 300 and 800 bucks a month, it's kind of OK, I'm going to buy a pass as a company, but I'm not going to go anymore.
So I'm going to send somebody else there. So we could see if, you know, keep your ear out if any companies need catering. And then so it's, it's just some employee, I mean, a great employee, right? Not downplaying them all, but it's like it's an employee, right? It's it's not the owners, it's not the decision maker. And so they're trying to go find other owners that also sent non decision makers. And I was the only idiot with. I was the only.
Owner that was there. Talking to all the decision. And then I joined a different one and it was very different. It was a lot more expensive. And it is none of that. It is no a dirty transaction. It's here's your trips. Pick two trips of the year we go and it's just really, really nice trips and breakfast, lunch and dinner. And the only thing that they, the only thing that they facilitate is making sure that every day you sit with you sit with new people and you go with your spouse too.
So like we went to Tahoe and then I, I did another fishing trip for a week in Belize and it's like the. But that's how you connect with the people. You connect with the people. Way differently. And then it and then it's guaranteed, you know, business owners doing 10 million plus or whatever it was. Yeah. And it was great, but it was too expensive. And I'm like, yeah, I'll come back to this guys. But it was, it was, it was a
good experience. Well, and it it, but it teaches you, you know, what's the importance? Is it is it a relationship or is it this monetary gain? And that's the problem, right? Like even that guy, I was telling you, he went so hard into pitching me that and I said, Hey, can you do me a favor and take a step back? I can feel your Dick on my leg. And he goes, what? And I'm like, yeah, dude, he goes, that's pretty messed up. And I'm like, so is what you just did.
You take a step back and be a cool guy and just say, hey, here's me as a person. I know you need to sell something, but the speed to a close is going to be the connection I make. And if they're invested into me, then something maybe can happen. But don't lead with that because it's like putting your Dick on their leg. Like, how offensive would that be? Yeah, unless. Oh, oh, here's the deal. I there's two, I could see both ends 'cause I've, I, I do both ends. Right now it's all about the
relationship. But if you're knocking a door and you make $400.00 a pest control cell, I'm gonna knock on your door. I'm not. I don't. I'm not gonna build a relationship with you. Yeah, and just think about the the the place you. Tell me to fuck off. I have to accept that because I know that I'm making you uncomfortable. So like for him to say that's messed up. I no, no, it's not messed up because you didn't like that and you expressed it and that's it.
You know, there's nothing messed up about that at all. If he's going to be pitchy because he wants to sell product because that's what his mind is telling him to do or whatever reason, like that's fine, just accept the consequences. But for actual real growth and connection and. That's not how to do it. That's not how to do it. But but that you. Can do it if it's different
environments. Yeah, I. Mean if you're out there, it's all about your numbers and you you know that it's not like fulfillment and it's because. You're knocking doors and stuff like it's a. People shadowed me and Solar's alone. It's like you sit down at their kitchen table and it's a longer presentation. And every time they're like, you don't ask them one thing about them. And I said because I don't, I generally don't care.
Like I'm here to sell them, they're here to buy and I would get deals done really quick, but it because it was straight to the point. Here's the pros, here's the the cons you choose. I gave them all the information I like literally gave them our bad reviews and stuff. And it's, but that's what I focused on was the was the
facts. And I like that because that's how I want to be sold and that's how I sold people And it worked really well for me. And that's if I went back to solar, that's probably what I would do. But I do know like if I want to build the relationship with a, with an investor or just a relationship just for the sake of being a relationship, which is really the goal, not for some hopeful future goal. I mean just very different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, you can't smoke hope,
right? It's a dangerous. Drug because I I smoke an. Opium. The in like the cells world, like, you know, ask them about their daughter and this and that. And I'm like, if you, if you were pitching me anything from a from a, a couch at RC Willey to solar or vacuum. I, I don't care about your kids. I'm never gonna see you again. And me telling you about my kids also doesn't matter. Like just go to the next house and make some more money and let me be with my. Family.
It's irrelevant to the conversation of what it says. I just don't want to why fake it? And so I think a lot of people fake it. I don't just, I don't fake it. I just, I don't care and I don't ask. Yeah, because that's not the purpose, right? That's not me. It's I just don't feel genuine. Like if I ask the question how how many kids do you have? That's to fill up empty. Offered space. And I'm just like, I would rather fill that up with signing the contract.
Yeah, yeah, I'll feel more fulfilled just to sign here. And if they, I mean, if they're getting it, you're not thinking about after the fact going, gosh, you know, morally I don't know how I feel about it. I mean, I just sit still that family and now they're, you know, financially responsible. Like you don't fucking care. It's just like, OK, good. I did what I was set out to do and I accomplished. That except for. After that except. For I would feel very bad if I screwed somebody over.
No, but I'm saying like, well, of course. They're gonna make that pay, yeah. No, but I mean you're not thinking about not not in that sense that they're gonna have something bad like how they feel after is their responsibility from what I understand from what you've been talking about. Yes. And and that extends way more applicable now because it's way harder when you sell franchises and people open up a store and they're in a few 100 grand and it's not going how we plan, it's
not going how they planned. And there's like, I can't feel responsible for that 200 times. But you can feel for them though going fuck that sucks. Oh, yes, I you could empathize, but rather than like me putting it on myself and, and like, oh, that was my responsibility. And it's like it, it was to as much as it was, but at the end of it, like they're adults. They made a decision based on the information that was 1000% accurate and it just didn't work out.
And I'm like, well, but that's just life that happens actually every day. We make the best decision based on the most accurate information, and it turns out to not. Sometimes it goes great, sometimes it doesn't. It like if, if it's my decision, it's on me. If it's your decision, it's on you and I and we have to separate it like that. Yeah, yeah. You really do that. Like it's, it's tough sometimes. One of the I have a buddy who still holds himself kind of accountable because of an
investment that I made. And I'm like, I don't blame you for this. This was my decision. I was the one who like I hold myself accountable for it. I should have done better due diligence and checked these things like I don't blame you for this. Yeah, definitely a growth experience. And it's funny, 'cause like that's, that's how I am too, because I, I truly believe that, you know, things are just
happening. We're making choices, but we couldn't have chosen otherwise because it's just cause and effect, domino effect. So it's like anything that ever has happened or will happen, like there's no, there was no other outcome. So why would I be mad at somebody that did what they had to do? You think you react the best way possibly that you can in that moment with everything in life leading up to that.
And there's no other way that you can show up in that moment like it's the reality has already unfolded to this moment. And that's what creates from this moment on. So you can always look inward and try and from then on perfect. But there's nothing that you will ever do or change or like, you know? Yes, I mean, we're going through life and and people here then like, well, well, well, then you're not going to do anything. It's like, why wouldn't you do anything?
Yeah, you're. Like, well, I'm just never going to get off the couch. OK, well apparently that was just what you were never going to do. Like, well, they won't because it's like, well, why aren't you going to get off the couch today? Why do you not just sit on the couch all day every day? Well, because I want to work. Well, why do you want to work? Because I need money. Why do you need money? Because I need a house. Why do you need a house?
Because I want to. And then it finally gets to an emotion and I I want to feel joy and fulfillment. OK, so you don't sit on the couch because you want fulfill joint fulfillment. If you found out that you were no longer conscious in control, still be the same thing. You still don't wanna feel like shit. Yeah, so I don't know. I, I think that's kind of a very weird thought to be like, oh, if if we're really not in control, nobody's gonna do anything. And it's like, no, it's the
exact same. You would do what makes you feel good, which is what you're doing now. But that mindset does allow you to go back and see the past, yourself and others, all actions with an infinite amount of sympathy, empathy, grace and forgiveness. If you, if you can conceptualize that. And then so you said the investment, like if I made an investment, that's how I view people. So it's like, I know you did, just did what you did and to the best of your ability and that's it.
And I I could forgive that, but for some reason, but I'm still like, Oh no, no, I need to, if I lose an investment, I have to go build another business to then go. Read it out of that, yeah. So I could give others grace, but I won't give it to myself in that same scenario. It's so hard. We are like, we say this all the time or like on the show is we're our harshest critics.
Like we look at ourselves and we judge ourselves way differently than we would judge our kids or, you know, or our friends or like our spouse or partner, whoever it is that we truly love and care about. And yet we look at ourselves and we're like way fucking harsh on ourselves. It's kind of ridiculous. But we don't ever treat ourselves with the same compassion and understanding often that we treat every other day like regular everyday people. Well, and you know, you're
talking about forgiveness. You know, it's, it's not as harsh having that humility to be able to see past that where you're like, OK, cool. Well, I'm not the most important person because I can imagine, you know, did did you ever get to that point? You're like, well, yeah, fuck these poor people. Like, you know, what's up with these guys? Like, do you ever feel like that? All the way up until I started in mushrooms 2, two or three years ago.
Like, because it was, well, yeah, you're in shitty circumstances. We're all in shitty circumstances. Like just figure. One way or another, yeah. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps. That was my firm, firm belief. I didn't, but I but I also grew up in Happy Valley in Orem, UT that I can that I was that we were poor, but we had a nice house and I mean, yeah, a nice house and a nice neighborhood.
And we lived off of food stamps and like the Bishop's storehouse that time, you know, like, because of the community and like, I never really needed anything, you know, because of the community. So I'm like, well, that was simple, you know, like I was poor, but I still did. It's like, yeah, looking back, like I wasn't poor. I had food every single freaking day and I was fat and I was like, I wasn't poor. Anybody would give me anything that I needed because the community was so strong.
And then you go to Chicago or Baltimore, knock doors in Baltimore, and you're just like poverty. This is different. Where you go to third world countries and you see. And then it's more like. A third world country? Oh shit, not Baltimore. Yeah, definitely do. I mean, you know, I've been all over this planet too. I've been to third world countries and I'll tell you like it is. It's stark difference. You're like, oh, that's yeah, that's different. And they're still smiling.
Yeah, they're happy and you're like. Well, so, so you trace back success and so again, this is how I got out of the mindset. You should be doing better because you should have. This is Gelato now because there was no more ground up of the Blue City diesel. OK, so just a little. Bit further. Down, just so you know. Yeah. Oh, I'm good. It's a different strain. All right, whatever I was saying, it was Baltimore. Yeah, terrible interruption. Oh, knocking doors, knocking
doors, you don't have money. If anybody asked, like, oh, I want money to go do that. Why don't you just learn how to sell and go knock doors? I did it. I did it like I was just an asshole, like an asshole mentality to be like, well, if I did it, anybody can do it. And and there's a lot of power to that. And I still believe in that, in the fact that like there's nothing that somebody else is doing.
I mean, almost nothing that somebody else is doing that I can't learn and figure out like that is true. That's that's that's. Time, effort, education. But you could do it. Yes, but the, the, the, what I didn't grasp is like, why do I want to go knock doors? Because I like making money. Why do I, why am I driven by money? Because I have an insecurity about safety in my life and I need to build up. Why do I have that? Because of how I was brought up.
Why was I brought up like that? I was in no control over, but it's like you you go back to like, well, it's it's just more willpower. Like just do more willpower and you'll do be a better person, You know, like just try harder. And it's like, OK, but where does willpower come from? Why does one person have it and one person does it? What? Is that underlying Dr. that you're like that person just seems to have it all? And there is no place like there. There is no place. It's willpower.
Is is just another thought. And if you analyze thoughts in this very moment or just this question, do you know what you're going to think before the thought arises? Of course not. OK. And and to add, do you know what you're going to think before you consciously know, you know? Well, that depends on if you look at the thought as being coming from you or as you being the observer of the thought and and like if it even originates
from you. Well, what I was getting at though is that question is obvious. I can't know something before consciously. I can't consciously know something before it consciously arises. OK, so we've established that we cannot control our thoughts 'cause if I don't know what it's what's gonna happen before it comes, then that's all the evidence we ever need that thoughts just appear.
OK, well, the thought just appears, but then I can choose to dwell on it. Well, tell me how you're gonna choose to dwell on something without having the thought to choose to dwell on it. Like so now you're. Getting into the original direction, but you can choose a new thought pattern or like think of hey, well now I'm going. To this is what I'm getting at. You can't. So that was just going to happen. That's just another thought
though. So it's just, it's the circumstance of what's happening. So you're just reacting to what's happening. Yeah. And I'm so I'm I'm making choices like I'm not an. But you can make a choice. Based off of that, yeah, I just couldn't have chosen otherwise. OK. So, so it's like, yes, I'm making choices. I'm a I'm a independent being, not being acted on by there's. No other choice that you could have made. Yeah, He he. Just handed me the lighter. I picked it up without even
thinking. Like I don't know, I could have not Like why did I pick it up with my right hand instead of my left? I have no idea. No idea. But just reactions just. Reactions. What happens? So going back to the thoughts, OK, I have a thought. I I want it. I'm I want a doughnut. And then the next thought is, OK, have the doughnut. Oh well, you chose to. No, that was just a thought after a thought neither. And we already established you don't control thoughts. Second scenario.
Well, I want a doughnut. Second thought comes up and it's. But you're on a diet, so I don't eat the doughnut. Well, yeah, because I chose not to eat the doughnut. Yeah, well, yeah, you chose, but it was just another thought that you didn't control. So good job that your brain told you not to eat the doughnut. And you're a shitty person morally because your brain told
you to eat the doughnut. And that's how we live a society not like we morally shame people for not being as good as other people when if anybody just sits still asks themselves that question, can we consciously know what we're thinking before we consciously the before that thought consciously arises. And of course the answer is no. And that there's there's no like Gray area. It's just a line in the sand. You don't control your thoughts, therefore you don't control your
actions. So just look at the world of freaking gratitude that there's an infinitely small chance that we had to live and we're here. And then then it's like, OK. Cool, just be grateful. Cool this is. Just grateful we're freaking smoking weed right now. Like I didn't, I didn't choose any of this. I just got dealt a good hand. So I'm just going to be grateful that like this is my life right now.
And rather than like walk around with pride and be like, I'm better than you because I like money more And I was driven more because because I'm, I'm, I'm like I'm literally driven. I'm literally driven because of an an insecurity for safety because I thought I wasn't going to have food some nights and like and then I over ate. But it's like that's what led to my success, and people are jealous of that because that's what society. That's fucking me like.
No one sees all the underlying roots and causes and everything. And jealous of my insecurities that keep me up at night and cause me to smoke weed. Because everyone just sees everyone else's happiness or success or what they perceive is what's going on in that person's life. And we miss. There's so much of that disconnect and you so you don't even see what's going on in that person's life. And it's like they just see, Oh well, look at Bennett Maxwell, he's sold or got $1,000,000 and
now he's got all this stuff. And look at Bennett. He just lost all this weight and he's got hair coming in. Man. Bennett's looking so fucking dope and like. So now you just, you know, it's OK though, it's OK to also look at it like, you know, I can be happy for your fortune. I really can. Because, you know, it's not necessarily that I don't have it's that I can look at that positively.
And I find that the more positive and the more gratitude, more forgiveness that we have, we actually just feel more fulfilled on things. Does it mean that we're going to be super stressed out still? Fuck yeah. Oh, absolutely. Are we still going to have bad days? Yeah. We're going to have days where we're just like, I feel like a fucking fake. I don't even know what I'm doing. I have no clue what I'm doing. I can't believe that these people tell you the.
Last day that I didn't think that right, like find somebody. I, I haven't asked people this, but you go tell go find somebody who's running a business that tells you that they don't think that often. Often not like they thought it early stage like often I just don't think people talk about. It, it wasn't even something that I really thought about until that same TV show, Billions. And they have that therapist and I'm watching these people
struggle and I'm like, oh, shit. And then we had Paul Hutchinson on and now it's like the first time he walked in, I was like, Oh my gosh, she's a billionaire. I'm like, wait, it's a person who has what numbers? Who the fuck cares? That doesn't mean anything. Yeah, you got Delta a better hand on the financial skill. Yeah. So then I look at it, I'm like, OK, like it truly. I don't see that as being any sort of. It'd be a bit it takes perfect. I mean, I, I legitimately have
never given a shit about that. And then just because I like the person, if they're cool, awesome. Like I want to meet them. And like when I was a kid, I met Jackie Chan in in Park City in the late 90s. That's cool. And I met him there and he was just cool. And I had this Native American friend there he goes, man, you'll be big Chinese, right? And he's like, no, I'm Indian. And he goes, and he goes, oh,
feather, not dot. And we all had a laugh and he didn't understand why we were laughing. He was just like, 'cause he didn't speak English, but he was just a nice guy. I'm like, oh cool. It wasn't I. I don't get geeked out on celebrities or anything like that. I'm like, oh cool, hey, you pretend for a living. This is cool, dude. Great job pretending on that
last time. I, I, I can relate to you on that one, like not acting different around if I'm on ACNN interview or if I'm talking to somebody, like I don't prepare for shit because I'm just like, it's just whatever's gonna come out is gonna come out. I don't wanna plan it and then be mad at myself if I don't go towards plan. However I do. I don't like that I do this, but IA 1000% treat people differently.
And like, if I know somebody sold a company for $100 million something in me and I, I try to resist it, but they're like I, I need to serve this person. And so they could see my value probably to store them in my back pocket for a safety security net. You know, coming back to what, what drives a lot of money because I want if I need to call on if, if I know 100 people worth $100 million, then you know. Somebody's got there's a lot.
Of people, I don't know what goes on securities though, but but 1000% I still, yes, I I still do treat people differently based on that and I don't like that I do. I'd love to change that. Working on it. That's something you recognize. You know, a lot of a lot of it came from doing sales because I felt like such an asshole all the time because I, I jumped into from phone to consultative sales and it was a long sales cycle. So the relationship mattered. I had to build a relationship
with them. I had no fucking clue and I had the worst teachers for it. These guys were the slimiest dudes ever. This one guy like palmed his card and went over to shake this guys hand and it's a networking event goes hey man, we'll talk later. This motherfucker had like slicked hair too. Dude look like Patrick Swayze shit right? And when he shook his hand, he dropped the card in the guys hand. The guy just goes like, like, like, he just handed him like, a used rubber.
Yeah, full of this guy's chin. What the fuck? And he just drops it to the ground. And I'm like, this is my teacher. Like the guy just looked at him like, it wasn't even, like, discussed. It was just, like, I feel bad for you. Yeah. And I learned something from those instances where I'm just like, I don't want to feel like an asshole.
I just don't want to feel like that because it was the worst and I went through professional sales schools that were teaching me like say this this time, and I did that and I got laughed at. The bigger the deals got, the more they didn't give a shit. Oh yes, 1000% they don't. Care how smooth you are like you're fucking 65. Control is literally head nod and smile and I can get people a head nod and smile with me. They're subliminally agreeing and it's only 30 bucks a month.
So who gives a shit? Like you could, you could you can head nod and smile somebody and then and then DIRECTV. It's like, this is a 2 year contract. 80 bucks a month. Yeah, it's not the like I literally use this on the doors. Like when I'm doing pest control I listen to a grant Cardone. Oh yeah, Grant car down the. Hardcore closure, the guard guide to hardcore. I don't know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. close to like the Bible.
Yes. The closer to hundreds, yes, that's the one hundreds of like closes. And I drove to Florida. I was halfway through the summer and I wasn't halfway to my goal, but I always hit my goals. So I'm like, I need to do something. And I, it was an 8 hour drive and I just me and my wife practiced them while we're driving all the way there. All the back. I like how to memorize and convert it to pest control. Oh nice. And one of them, like these were so silly and I just like, what
the hell, I'm going to use them. One of them was OK. Like you treat yourself, you know, treat yourself. You deserve pest control, blah, blah, blah. No, no, no. Oh, but your wife deserves it. Your wife deserves it. You know, your family deserves it. No, no, no. And then literally I, and I did it and I said, just do it for me. Do it for me. This helps me out and I would appreciate it. Close. Yeah.
Yeah, it did what? What I would do those, I would do those ridiculous closes and people would do it. But then you get to sell a, a, a $30,000 security system and it's like, Nah, much less A10 year contract on a franchise. It's like, no, you can't head nod and smile. Anybody get rid of all of that mumbo jumbo, every single one liner, chop that out and just talk to them. Yeah, 'cause they want the honesty, the transparency, the realness of like, hey, this is a big investment for me.
I really need to know what the hell I'm getting into. And you wanna be comfortable with it because that's actually when it happens, right? I mean, that exchange of money is exchanging trust. And something will happen. Like you give me these little rectangles of value, don't know why, but they are valuable. And you're gonna get something that ioffer you. And and that trust will go a long way 'cause I mean, you know, it's the thing that you hate the worst. Like after buyer's remorse.
Like I only have one instance where I really fucking hated what I bought and it was an audio book on network marketing 'cause I thought networking, Oh, marketing. OK, that makes no idea that's MLM. And as soon as it got into it, I'm like, the second chapter is how to sell your friends and family. Literally that's the title of the chapter. I'm like, I turn it off and I put this horrible review and I'm just like, Oh, I feel gross. But then that trust has always
been broken right there. Like I can forgive most even on something that goes S on a on a financial thing, but man, I don't want them to feel like I've duped them some way. I really don't. That that's that like keeps me up as well. So my and then and then I discovered that this is a way better way to sell anyway. It's all about trust, right? Sells is, is, is about the
trust. And so typically it's oh, you know, Kirby vacuums are the best because of XYZ and every and they're better than everybody else because of everything. And look at all of this and it's great and great and great and great. Please sign here. And it's like, OK, well, I am not gonna sign there because I'm gonna, one, Google how much this costs. If I buy it online, it's probably cheaper. And then two, I'm gonna read the negative reviews.
And then three, I'm gonna look at companies that review vacuums and see what they rate as the best value 'cause I don't wanna spend 2. 1000. 40 if that person shows up with a little pamphlet and she does that research for me this is the second competitor this is the third competitor this is the 4th competitor 4th competitor. If you're if you're if you're wanting to go with the best budget item, this is gonna get
you 80% there for half the cost. However, if you want the Mercedes then you can take it back. But like sales people avoid the bad thinking that that's helping them. But I was like, no, I have to make sure that I outlay all scenarios to protect myself from feeling bad in the future. Then I started really pitching the bad. But I'm like, here's the pro and this is the bad. And This is why people choose
the pro over the bad. If you agree with that, then you know we could sign in. If if not, that's that's totally cool too. But by making by competing against yourself, you actually build trust. Is is really what I'm getting AT. And you feel better after. That's definitely. Because you're not trying to hide anything, it's just full transparency of like, here's what you can get, here's what we offer, and here's where it compares to.
Like if they have half a brain, you can't hide anything anyway because it's like, it's like the Internet, everything's exist. It's. Ridiculous. It's just the old ladies. I'm the first person to pull out my phone if someone says that. And like I'm Googling that. That doesn't sound real. That sounds like ridiculous. And I'll just check it right then because I'm like, yeah, I don't think so. It's a different day and age,
definitely. I mean, even when Brandon and I, we sold IT services over the phone, like it was you felt greasy after a while because you're just selling these old ladies. They're like, oh, I could choose between my medicine and getting my computer fixed and then fucking. We would, I mean, but we were told like this, is this when you're young in it, you're just like, whatever to do to get the sale? I'm pounding these mints. Dude, you're good. No worries. Take it with you.
They're awesome, but it's it's definitely that, right? It's getting over that greasiness feel and, and when you hear it, it just disturbs you. Like I just recently switched my pest control because the guy was just straight. He was super honest. And he's just like, look, going over there. My wife's like, all right, cool. She wheeled and dealed it. And then I came around the corner and the guy's like, yeah. And I listened to the last of it and I was like, cool.
And I said I kind of coached the people just like you. And he goes, how do you think I did? And I'm like, dude, it was awesome. I said, you sold my wife on it. I said that's that's great. Because my wife just, she's like, no. Yeah. Fuck off. Like, I don't, I don't want to hear this. I'll hear him out just because I I feel for him. But at the same time, if they come off real sleazy, like one kids, like, yeah, you know, we could do all these things.
Know that. All right, boss, what was your what was your e-mail? I'm not giving you my e-mail. OK. All right, boss. So what was that? What's that phone number for you? First of all, don't call me, boss. And 2nd, I'm sorry. I'm going to tell you to fuck off. Close the door. Then I had Vivint Pros come knock at my house and I'm like, I worked for Vivint. I have a million friends who work for Vivint. I don't need you coming to sell me. I know exactly what services you offer.
And I kept and he's like, well, we could get you. And I'm like, bro, I'm not interested at all. Like Thanks for your time though. It's a different world now, you can look it up. Back then it was a lot easier to just trust then verify. But now it's all verified. Then I'll trust you. Even slightly significant purchases, even if you can close them right then and there, they're gonna look you up after. Yeah, they're gonna find what you were trying to hide.
And then they're gonna cancel. And you already have. You've been trained on how to overcome that objection, but now you can't even overcome it because she doesn't wanna talk to you because she cancelled, because she doesn't trust you. So it's like, that's why it's like, here's all the bad, let's get all your objections out because guess what? I want you to hear the answers from me rather than.
Whenever you're going to go to the door, I. Mean it's so much harder to switch somebody from a no to a yes than just like, keep them at a yes. Yeah, Oh. Yeah, once once they've cancelled to like get them to re sign up for. Any oh, it's such a pain. Very, very low percentages. I worked in retention over at Vivint after I'd gone out and knocked doors because my buddy was still manager of the office and he's like, you should come knock doors again.
I'm like, no, I'm good. Like, but I'll do the stuff inside on the phone. I just don't want to go knock doors. And I saved so many in retention because it was like, this is all the stuff on the doors, but I'm just building relationship, talking with these people and then like keeping them on there. And it was super easy after
knocking doors. And that that goes into, you know, your personal life too, because it's I don't like to treat those that I make a real connection with any lesser than if if, you know, they were just trying to sell me, I would really want to be able to have that across the board. So I scope, man, I just want to be treated that way.
And if they become, you know, super pushy and, and shoving their Dick into my hip and like, OK, OK, I have no problem going, Hey, I don't, I don't do that, man. I don't do that. Kick you in the Dick, punch you out and make you cry, right? But I mean. I can feel it on my hip. So it's gonna happen, Jesus. It's got a shack attack coming towards you, but it, it just building the relationship is so much more important.
And that's why, you know, like for us, it's it's been a catalyst for us with cannabis and almost anywhere like we, we make friends just because we smoke cannabis and it doesn't matter who they are, right? I mean, if you if you make friends with somebody, they could even be like a celebrity or whatever pretend pretender or they throw a ball and they're
just like anybody. Else and not only are they just like anybody else and the fact that they're humans, they have no less down periods of their lives. Yeah, stress, anxiety, depression than any other. Person that they don't there's they don't exist, like nobody exists and you whether we've defined it or not, I think it's like, I want to be like this person, right? You kind of have that even if you don't set the person, but at
least this how I want to peer. Well, actually make sure that you narrow it down to one person. Like if I want to be the most successful business person in this category, like I'm going to go find that person and say that's why I want to. Be model after yeah. OK, then go analyze our life. If you if if they've done a documentary, they've written a book, and then you're going to realize that they have just as many problems as you. And then you're like, OK, well, did I want to be like that
person? Because I thought that my problems are going to be solved? Yes, that's what we do. OK then that makes no sense. My whole life goal, I need to now go change it, rather than go my entire life to achieve what I didn't, what I'm what I was already doing, which was problems and successes on a day-to-day basis, up and down. That's cool. That's really cool. Good way to look at it. Well, and it's cool that you're
you're at that point. Do you meet a lot and have the same mentality as you do within business? Yeah, I, I and, and I think so, I think money definitely helps with that because like on my podcast, we'll talk about legacy and the people who have thought about it have really good answers. I and when I say really good, you could tell when somebody has contemplated it, defined it and lived by it. You just can't. And then other ones when it's like, oh, that's a good
question. What do I want my legacy? And even just that, it's like, Oh, well, you haven't thought about this at least in the last six months. You talk to people that, that are retired and young and they know that they know they've, they've thought about that. If they're have a lot of money, the same amount, you know, two people are sitting on $10 million and one person sold their company and is semi retired and just do podcasting
or whatever. Something more passion project that guy's thought about and he knows what he wants his legacy. The other person who sold his money for the, the, the company for the exact same one amount, but then immediately started at the next company probably hasn't. That's, that's very generalized. But so in, in the sense that money gives you more free time to go explore that or money to buy mushrooms or whatever it is. It does.
But I, I think it's, it's, it's unfortunate that you have to get to that point and I don't think you do. I think if you listen to me, don't trust me, 'cause Oh, it's easy for you to say you, you did it. Don't do it with money. Just do it with any goal you've ever set that you've achieved. Look back at to the, the, the highest achievement that you're the most proud of in your life.
How did you feel like you're like, I remember in high school, I wanted to be Allstate. You know, they pick whatever the hell even that even means. I don't know. I wanted to be first team Allstate and waited till the morning and boom, daily first team Allstate felt great. I didn't even get one college look, you know what I like it meant it meant nothing. It meant absolutely nothing and it just lasted for like a day. I was on the newspaper.
I was in the newspaper and I was like, that's so cool. And then wrestling and then I was on the front pages of the sports. So cool for. A week fleeting happiness and fleeting joy that you're like, oh, I got this. And then it's like you're 15 minutes dopamine or serotonin rash. So and it's it's and now it's easy to be like to just kind of brush it off and it is very important. Enjoy those 15 minutes. Enjoy those two weeks like in Just savour it, soak it up. Yeah, soak it up.
But just know that it's going to go away and that's OK. Yeah, oh man. That's perfect, man. I mean, and it's I think that's something good for anybody to take from this is that you know what it's it's just moments and be and and you can look back on those moments and that's fantastic. But to be consumed by chasing something all the time, that really that's, that's fucking hard. Yeah, and for me it looks like I'm chasing money, but really I'm man it.
That's never crossed my mind. I, I've smoked too much. Well, I, I just think most people, at least how I view business people, it's like, oh, well, you know, you're, you're just chasing more and more and more and more and more. But I'm like avoiding the moment. Like I, I'm avoiding the presence because it's like, well, am I happy with who I am? Am I doing what I want to do? Does like I just want to avoid this. So let me just focus on business and the next, next, next, next.
So like it looks like I'm or I think it could look like that. I'm trying to grab something. But but I really do think it's avoidance. Like I'm avoiding the present moment. And it's like you, you run your whole life avoiding the present moment to hopefully be present in your 60s. And it's it's like that doesn't make. That doesn't. Make any sense? Why? Why miss the best times of your life?
And, and there's a balance because at the beginning I said something about like religion in general, teaching that the philosophy is it it if you keep these rules, these commandments, and you're happy, it's because my religion's true and you'll be rewarded in heaven. If you keep my these commandments and you're not happy, that's because God's trying you and you will still be rewarded in heaven either way. If you do what I say, you get to go to heaven, right?
And it's all about the delayed gratification And and there's and in large part that's all we do every single day is delayed gratification. Taking a hit of this is unhealthy for me, but I'm not gonna delay the gratification. I'm gonna have it right now. But if I do it too much, then I'm going to, you know, jeopardize my health in the in the future. So it's always finding that balance. But I was so much to I will sacrifice anything today for a better future in five years.
So like, even when I started making like a quarter million in a few months going, I didn't spend anything. We were living in a basement apartment and I would make a quarter, you know, 50 to 100 grand a month. But just for the summer and same thing, basement, apartment, 'cause I'm just like horde, horde, horde, horde. So I went excessive. And. Then there's also the other thing of like, oh, I'm not even
gonna think about tomorrow. I'm not even gonna think about where I'm gonna work or how I'm gonna have money, you know? So there's definitely a balance, but I geared way toward more towards that religious extremism, or at least that's how I interpreted it. Fighting the Ying and the Yang. So. Yeah, it's hard and and it's good to hear that you've got for you, you've got the perspective that you need to feel like not 100% fulfilled, but not like
completely worthless. Like you're, you're riding an even wave. You're just keeping it going. Yeah. And I'm, I'm, I'm trying to figure out what the wave is. That's what I love. It's like how much anyways, it, it was a big shift just to realize like I'm not after being happy all the time, that's no longer my goal. Like I just thought one day I'll solve all our problems and be happy every day. That's not my goal because that's impossible. And that's, that's just such a big relief.
So now when I see problems and it's like, wait, starting a business and I think it was gonna be easy. Of course not. So why am I surprised when it's hard? Every time I'm surprised this morning, I get a text mark, Mark, new marketing director, quit, no two week notice. And I'm like, well, and then I literally thought, OK, why am I surprised right now? And I and I was able to give myself that action.
That's cool. But the other 20 times that's gonna happen today, I won't remind myself of that and I'll just sit in anxiety. But it's the that time that you do that takes away that anxiety and stress that you would have had and allows you to just be more present in this moment. Let me drop some knowledge that I learned yesterday. All right, let's hear it. For all you weak pussy men that
don't see therapists. So I'm going through and this is a new therapist and I like switching therapists because they different insights, different insights and and it's OK. Well, the times that I can't immediately, you know. Like anxiety arises and it's whatever it like we're not, let's not say anxiety, stress arises. So we don't call anxiety at night. And it keeps you up at night because you're worrying about how to do XYZ tomorrow. And you know, what are the different techniques?
And she gave me 4 super good techniques and I was gonna share. With you. Yeah, dude, that sounds awesome. Love to hear that. Yeah, sure. First one, mindfulness, the thought arises and then you identify is this, and this is
pertaining to stress or anxiety. Stress, anxiety, is it toxic or productive and productive is defined as I can quickly, more or less quickly come up with something that I an actual item that I can do that when I do it, it alleviates that toxic is it doesn't matter what I'm going to do or I come up with the idea and I have to wait till tomorrow because it's midnight, but that idea just keeps ruminating. So identify toxic or productive reframe with the mindfulness and this for me.
And and then she's like having me say it out loud. And I, I always feel weird doing that. I'm like, just what do you mean? I'm reading it. But anyways, I do so it's I'm noticing I'm having the thought that XYZ, whatever you're having anxiety about, I guess I'll, I'll guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens or something like that. Right. But just framing it in the Oh man, the thought is, what if I
can't open the store on time? And then all these employees and blah, blah, blah, OK, and then just reframing and saying, I'm noticing, I'm having the thought about this. And then it's like, oh, it automatically makes you think like that's just a thought. Like that's all it is. So anyways, and this and then and then the last one is grounding or redirecting to the present moment on just immediately going to your 5 senses. So like, OK, acknowledged it was a toxic whatever.
I reframed it. And then I'm immediately if I'm washing dishes, I'm going to focus on what can I smell touch here and see. And then it so you're not, your brain doesn't go back in that loop anyways. That that was one of the four. I don't need to read the other ones 'cause that went longer than I thought. It's cool. It's really interesting because it's awesome. But this is a plug for therapy, that's why. That's beautiful. No, that's all I'm looking at because it's so freaking
helpful. Well, and that it ties into what you do, right? I mean for a business for dirty dough, these you, you created this cookie empire that's growing all the time. He faced adversity getting into it, which was fun. It was super cool 'cause you utilized it, you roll you, you rolled with it. So many that I heard about being sued by this company. They just folded up. You're like, oh shit, sorry, we'll give in. And you're just said no, you can go fuck yourself with that sharp stick.
And if you can't find one, I'll help you find it like and you and you gave it to him, dude, and it was awesome. You stuck your guns to it and that says a lot to your to who you are. And that that really just keeps building upon that. Like, you don't see like, yeah, I'm at the apex where I'm supposed to be. I'm Axelrod. You don't see yourself that way. You see, you're always improving, right?
Absolutely. And I still don't know really where the line is, 'cause it's like you say that and I hear, I understand it and I appreciate it, like I really appreciate it. But at the same time, my view is show me a universe that I could have done something else. Like what did I do special? I just, I just lived. I just lived according to my wants, desires, values, education, previous environmental impact and genetics. It's all like. Reality that unfolded.
Yeah. So it's like, I, I do, I am grateful that I am that person, but I'm also like, I didn't do anything to become that person. Trying to strip away the pride. From it. Interesting. Take the ego out of it and just realize it's. The situation of and I can imagine that like I, I, I work really hard. I mean, the ego, my death, my death and my ego, it's lasting. Like I really don't hold that ego. I can't 'cause it's just gone, right? And I mushrooms do.
That that's what I was gonna say and that's why I feel like I just, I don't care to look stupid. Yeah. Like last time I was, I was over here. Like I was very hesitant to do a podcast while high 'cause I wasn't vocal about. Your consumption and stuff the same. Yeah, or psychedelics or and then even, I mean, even today I'm sitting on this and I'm like smoking. And I'm like, oh, but there's not a. And then I noticed there's a camera halfway through.
I'm like, wait, but why does that change anything? And then I'm like, Oh, well, some of the board members have said stuff about social media and I'm just like, whatever. But it, it's still coming. And I, and then I can get rid of it. But it, it is like, but I, I'm the chairman of a company. Like one, I don't, what does that even mean? Two, should I be smoking on a podcast? And then three, well, why not? It's legal and I'm not doing anything wrong, you know, but
I'm still getting over that. I've I've still definitely. Won. And this is part of it too, because we want, we want those to be able to see that. And to normalize. Yeah, totally, because it's not not just for people who waste their lives or can't make good decisions. This is opened up a lot in our lives, in our minds, in our thoughts.
And so as we are pursuing this, like that's one of the great things about bringing you here is where you been, what's going on and and that you're just like anybody else. So when somebody looks at it, it's to think fortunate where you're at because you were dealt the right hand. If you're in a shitty situation that. Sucks. Well, I that's what I would love anybody that is in a shitty situation, understand that there is legitimately no difference between them.
And I don't even want to say myself, but anybody like you're not where you want to be. Because for whatever reason, that willpower that when you knew you were supposed to do something, but another thought arose that you shouldn't do it. And that led to an action like it's just, it's just, it just is what it is. You couldn't have done any otherwise. So get rid of that shame and guilt and embarrassment for past mistakes because you couldn't
have done anything else. How you didn't show up in the moment that. It is what it is. But it but it's yeah, like as it is, what it is to me is, well, it's already passed, so you can't change it. And I'm saying no, let's let's, let's invent The Time Machine. Let's go back in the past. And the circumstances are the same. Your wants are the same, your desires are the same. Your environment's the same. Everything's the same. What's gonna cause you to make a different decision? Nothing.
So it's it's not even like it just happened. I can't change the past. Like even if you had a time machine, you can't change the past. And it's well 'cause every circumstance prior to that is already unfolded, and that's what leads to the current circumstances. So unless you really truly go back to the very beginning and write from square one everything over in some possible world that you think differently thoughts from the start like, how are you supposed to really change that
anyway? Yeah, I mean, so yesterday I had a guy on my podcast and he I was, we were focusing on partnerships. That's just where the conversation went and super intrigued by it. And you know, you got screwed out of a few 100 grand. The first partnership, second partnership, the dude just took off with two and a half million. And I I brought up this and and the guys had already gone through the forgiveness and he's like, like, it is what is that? I don't even care.
I don't even care and we went through it's like, OK, well, what about that guy, though? So like we one you can sympathize with that person. What had to be going through his head to feel like he had to screw over business partner partner like and then like I could understand that there's he's he made the decision that was best in his mind, like he weighed out the pros and cons. He knew they were going to maybe consequences, but the pros outweighed those.
So like, that's what he did so I could sympathize with him and like, OK, there was a a valid reason that I made the decision. And then you can empathize with them. And like, do you feel like, do you think he feels good about that? Yeah, He knows he's the guy. He stole two and a half million dollars, right? He knows he's that guy. No, that sucks. It's like, it sucks that he made that decision. Why did he choose those pros over those cons? Why were his values different at that time?
Nobody knows. He doesn't know. It just had to happen that way. And then going back and I forgot to say but I already said it so I was just summarizing. That's OK bro. These have been some really incredible deep like it was so. Good and honestly man, cuz I just I've heard you on other podcasts. I'm a big fan of what you're doing and I think you're an awesome person and you know, it's, it's always the same shit every time. Tell us about this your success.
I'm always plugging in this, this philosophy. It's awesome. I'm like sliding them in like, because if you believe this and if you were going to believe that, you could get rid of all your shame, guilt in there. Yeah, I'm a mission. I'm a salesperson still like whatever I believe I'm like that's. What your question, Yeah. No, but that's perfect. Cannabis, it's like. Cannabis school, you know. It's all it. It's just being able to utilize this amazing connect. Let me do one more plug.
Yeah. All right. For psychedelics, because when I hung up the phone like as answered the door, that guy called me and he's like, I'm doing something with mental health and this and that. And you know, I'm just telling you in case to get your wheels turning. I don't know in case I can help or something in the future. And so he's telling me and I don't really know him that well, but he's he's like, I've been seeing a therapist because I just saw your posts or this and
that. And I've been seeing a therapist about porn addiction as as well as with my wife. And I'm like one immediate respect for that dude. I'm like, I love that you just told me that. And we've met twice. ANYWAYS, the the conversation led to psychedelics. And he's like, oh, I haven't, I haven't needed psychedelics. So now I'm gonna give my rebuttal to that. Nobody needs psychedelics, right? But a lot of and it's like, OK,
can you achieve those states? And I'm talking to people to use a psychedelic like mushrooms from the earth. Psilocybin is no no legal overdose, no toxicity. Start small, start with a half a gram weight at least an hour. I mean, I'm not. A or even a test of a gram. But like start with doing a little weight an hour and a half like easier way into it. Have somebody there with experience, watch YouTube videos, watch how to change your mind. Don't just go do it.
But all that aside, I I do think everybody should do it because it's you cannot achieve those states with without psychedelics. You can achieve psychedelic like states, but they're different. It's yeah. I don't know what India is like because I've never been there. I can imagine it. But I you. Can look at pictures. But I don't know till I go there. I don't know what Indian food tastes like. I can imagine it, I can look at pictures, maybe I can even smell.
I don't know. There's no experience you can get like on psychedelics and without them, like you don't even know what you didn't need. Yeah, You know, I. Did and. Then the other thing is, Oh well, it's like, why can't you do it without it? Will you? Why can't you? Oh achieve those stage. Without it, why can't you walk around without clothes? Like why do you use clothes as a tool to keep you warm like you use?
We use tools in every second of every day and a psychedelic is a tool to reach a deeper level of consciousness. And it's like you use a phone as a tool and your shoes is a tool, Your car, your keys. Walmart is a pretty good. Tool that you just have to walk your ass in there and get whatever you want. Like all of these are shortcuts.
Why are we gonna say let's do shortcuts on everything in life and except for finding deep meaning in consciousness, resolving trauma, and understanding consciousness with that one, I'm not gonna use a shortcut. There's no tools for that. Especially not a drug that I can't overdose on it. And it's like, could you eat ibuprofen or Pepto Bismol or Tylenol? And I'll be eating the same amount of mushrooms and we'll see who dies first like. Oh yeah, right.
But yeah, it's so taboo and anyways. I do like Utah's approved psilocybin and MDMA for therapy. When did? That happen. Just recently. Just recently, the last couple weeks they were within the last month or so. Awesome. Yeah, the clinic I'm working with right now is working on being one of the very first, if not the first qualified place to be able to start. That's. Sick that is recently interesting. So my my parents are both LDS.
They're both Mormon still and my dad is actually considered because his new wife is in the medical field and. She opened up the doors to to all members of a religion that I think that that's bad. And it's The funny thing is, I don't think that the Mormon religion says it's. Bad. No. No. Interpretation. The We had Paul on our show a year ago or so and he took down to Jamaica. Oh, that Bishop.
Yeah, I heard him talking. Many bishops, he took down like 20 people from Utah that were in the legislature and Bishop Ricks and stuff and they did their first psilocybin experience. And he said they did two different types. They did one that was very, you sit on your own, it's very clinical and that and he said the very first time was terrible for them. They're like, why would anyone
ever do this? And then the second time, the second day was all done with the proper set, the proper setting had more of the community in that. And those were like for I think it was over 90% of them. That was the closest experience, connection, feeling to God they have ever experienced. And these are religious people who go to church all the time, do all of these things. They're saying like it strengthened their.
Connection, yeah. No, I believe it it it built a lot of strength for my connection. Illegal. You're not supposed to do that legal thing. Illegal things. But I look at that, I'm like, yeah, you're also not supposed to jaywalk. Yeah, you're not supposed to speed. You're not supposed to. You're supposed to use your blinkers. But I see cops and all of these people are showing.
Yeah. Again, you're not gonna keep all of the laws in the government, but the one that you choose is the one that could potentially change your life, and that's the one that you're going to draw the line like. But I won't break that law. Yeah. OK, don't break it. Which is interesting, yeah. And especially when you can see all of the research and study and benefits from like PTSD, depression, anxiety, like the benefits of psilocybin are massive.
And like people who are cured or healed from PTSD or depression, all of these things sometimes from one trip, which is crazy, but more in a therapeutic sense, like you could deal really deal with all of these underlying issues. From like the ketamine, I mean when we did ketamine together, that like the best way I could describe it is that something's gone. I don't know what it is and I don't want it back. Like it, it truly just like, put me in a different. It just took me from another
dimension. Yeah. Like I was in another dimension during that time. And then when it was over, it was over. It just stopped. Like all of a sudden I'm like, whoa. That's so short lived. It's really cool that it's like comes on and then you're yeah, you're done. That's crazy. Screw up your whole night. Yeah, it's so amazing. It was. Well ketamine therapies are huge here too. I feel like there's quite a few clinics now that do ketamine therapy.
Well, now they, I mean you can. You can get it prescribed and shipped to your house from 20 different companies nationwide. Oh wow. Yeah, 'cause I get all the ads from for all of them. Yeah. Which is funny because I've been, I've had it prescribed for a few months, which which is way, I mean, you show up to a pharmacy and you pay 4 bucks for a trophy rather than buying it from who knows where, you know what I mean? Like, I love that you can get it.
That's, it's, it's amazing. And then also doing it at your house rather than the clinical setting is you have to go, 'cause I did it. It's like you have to do a six treatment package for two grand. And every time you have to go there, you have to have somebody sitting in the room with you. And they like just put you in like this cold little dungeon put you up on AIV. And it's like, hey, see, in an hour like that sounds terrible. That's it.
Yeah, that's their certain. Setting and good experience. Like it's literally like sitting in a dental's. Like not even bright lights though. And you miss so much of like the healing like experience. All of them are like. From that. That's no, that's the one that I went to and then I went to another one and she it was talk therapy before and then the Academy and tension setting and then the Academy mean and then after it was talked there again. So like that was awesome.
And that's I think how it should be. But even that way I have you have to have somebody to drive you there, stay with you and then drive you back. I got three. So like now I have to get a babysitter on top. Of 300 bucks. You know, so it's amazing that the laws are changing your. But yeah, you can get it at home. That's wild. That's really cool though, 'cause I feel like that's a better place where people can
feel safer. They can set up the setting and set correctly instead of like the very clinical doctor's office. Like that's not a very good safe place that people are like, hey, I wanna. Yeah, and just the fact that you have an IV rather than something in your mouth. And then the other thing is like, again, start small, start small. Start like you get a trophy and they tell you put it in your mouth. I would literally cut it into fourths and put a fourth in my mouth.
Yeah. Yeah, I did in half. I, you know, and, and just like and just feel it and, and like, OK, this is what it feels like now I'm going to take the other three fours or, or half. Whatever that's like with mushrooms, everyone who is like, oh, I want to try and like cool, here's a microdose, Try a microdose and it's a 10th of gram is what I get them 'cause it's so small and I'm like, this will let you see like you can feel what it's like in there. I did micro dosing it was one 1 1/2.
Is that where you never started at? Yeah. Oh wow. Yeah, see. .15. OK, .15 is a 10. What are you saying? .15 yeah. Yeah, that's what mine were. OK, Yeah, yeah. So that's a micro dose you're saying a gram and 1/2 is 1.5g so I'll. Do that, do a half a gram pretty often and I could feel 1/2. I don't really get into it but I 1/2 a grandma could feel it. Yeah, a micro dose for me will get me on a really nice. I'm like super happy, real easy to talk to. I normally am anyways, but.
I'm gonna need to do it again. I just, I just don't know the difference, but I also don't know if I was paying attention you. Know what I mean? Yeah, it depends on what's going on in life. I feel like sometimes, and we've talked about this this last month because we've both been taking a couple micro doses, but after the first time, 'cause it's always like we've been holding off, waiting to take it, waiting to take it. Nervous to take it. And then we take it and it's
like, man, this was amazing. Why were we holding off? Why were we not doing this? We've been holding on to this weight or this energy or whatever. And now it's like you feel so much better, so much lighter like. Yeah, I don't feel that way with cannabis. I don't go, oh, I don't know. I don't think I should do it. But then it's. Like I fucking. Swear like.
OK. We feel like there should be a second microdose following up on that one within a couple days, because that first one, it was like, man, there's been so much and it's been so long since we've done this, that that first one's just kind of like getting rid of that weight. And I feel like the second one would allow you to be actually more of that present and maybe work through anything that you needed to, right. But yeah, it's. I was doing once every three days.
For three months. That would be good, I'm sure. And I didn't notice a difference. Between not using it and doing it that interesting. Yeah, but I know lots of people that have gotten off of antidepressants and anxiety medications. Yeah, which, awesome. So maybe I need to do it again. I don't. Know maybe it just was the mushrooms that you were using. Microdosing LSD, but that's more for like inventing the iPhone, you know? Yeah, well, it's actually really cool.
That was one of my favorite things to do with it was microdose. I don't actually really care as much for the like even a full tab of it that that experience is fine. But I prefer mushrooms for that one way more than I do. But I like the microdosing of LSD. I haven't done it in years and years. Oh, it's been over 20 years for me. But you know, when I did it, like I didn't get a really, it wasn't a a awesome, amazing like here's what we're going to do. No talking, no, no prep.
It was put these in your put these sugar cubes in your mouth. Oh, but. That wasn't a microdose. That was like a heavy dose. Yeah, I got like many tabs of LSD. Hits of LSD like it went, I went. I would have died. To the moon. I don't like. It was pretty intense, but I mean, I'll tell you, like out of all the IT wasn't as intense as psilocybin was for me at first, 'cause it's more introspective, like for a large dose of LSD it's just hallucinations like that's all it was.
It was very visual. Oh my God, It was intense, but not like the right I get with psilocybin. It's so much more an emotional. Yeah, and you can tell between the synthetic and that one. That's why ketamine was such a a very positive experience. I'm I'm super open with my with my kids on everything that I take. Yeah, me too. Well, one, it's like if they ask me what am I gonna say? None. Your business. Yeah, right. This is a special thing. Any candy?
This, this is a plant that you grind up and I'm like teaching. I'm like, you grind it up right here so it goes smaller and then you can put it in this bowl and then when you breathe through here, you could see the water moving. You know, the bubbles are coming that's filtering it and it's pulling air through. And we know that air needs fire needs air. It's like getting down.
And then it's like, and then it goes into your lungs and from your lungs to your bloodstream and to your broad stain to my brain, which helps me calm down like, and that's, I mean, and that's the answer. And I think that's the healthy
answer. You know, maybe I'm a little biased, but I'm like A5 year old, a three-year old asked me that and I explained it to him, you know, but on mushrooms as well, same thing going through the process and what it does, because I do it like, it was like going into mainly business settings with like 10 business owners and one guide and doing mushrooms that way. And it was more intentional in the fact that like they make you set intentions and then you
share that. And, but since I stopped doing that and just doing it with my family and just hanging out at night and doing that once a week, 1/2 a gram to maybe a gram and a half, it's the best thing. And my kids love it. And it's like, and they know because they know that I'm way more like I feel like I'm a good dad and I feel like I'm really present, but it's, it's just different. Like it's 1000% different. Especially if you're on like
half a gram to a gram and 1/2. Yeah, like you're still there, 100. Percent yeah, but it's a very different connection like in those moments that's cool though. And it it really is like and you think about it like if these are truly medicines and that or things that help benefit us. We don't hide our tools we don't hide Tylenol. Why would why would we be ashamed of a tool that truly is like has massive value and benefit and going, hey, this tool like we're not gonna talk
about this. Yeah, that's when I was at that networking event. And this guy's like, man, you're real happy today. I said, oh, I'm on a microdose right now. Yeah. And he's all what I'm like, yeah, he goes, you came here on on mushrooms. I'm like, I come here on pot like every time you don't say shit about that. He's like, oh, well, I mean, yeah. So just let that shit go, dude. Don't worry about it. Like what, is somebody gonna show up going that's bad and
they're like, go fuck yourself? Yeah, I don't. Care like if you think it's bad, I all right. I mean, that's got nothing to do with me. That's, you know, if you want to feel guilty for me dude, by all means, go for it. I'm happy as fuck over here I. Feel like I'm a high functioning psychedelic user. I last week I, I think I was probably, I think I did half a gram just to see what it was like that. And then I took another gram and a half, so.
Oh, 2G, yeah. But it was also spaced out like an hour, so it's kind of. It's a little, just extended it. And then my kids want pasta, and I go upstairs and I'm like, well, I'm just gonna get my wife to make pasta. Yeah, well, I don't want to get up, so I'm telling them to go make way go telling them hey, go get mom. And then they bother me so much they won't like OK, finally I will go get mom to go make you pasta.
And then I go up there and she's cleaning and I'm like, do I want her to clean or do I want to make pasta? And I start laughing because I'm on mushrooms and explain the whole situation to her. She's like, it's your choice. Do you want me to clean or not? You know, just being like, I love you. Go back downstairs. I'm making the pasta, put it in the smallest little shitty pan and it's overflowing. And then I don't have sauce.
So now I now the second, you know that that the second dose of the grammar house is, is hitting as I'm walking to Walmart to go get yes, bro, and yes, I'm crossing the street like this, just like laughing. Just I'm like I, I, I can't stop laughing. So like before I like get my composure and I was like, as long as I don't talk to anybody and I go in there, but I go in there so often because I just walk there every day with my kids.
I know the workers and fucking Liz, dude, she sees because now I don't have my hat on either. And Liz and I and I and I and I'm like, I'm keep my head down. I'm not going to talk to nobody. But when I'm checking out, Liz sees me comes over. She's like, Hey, how'd the transplant go? Or the and I'm like, Liz, yeah, really good. I gotta go. Next day, though, I went back and I told her I was like, I hope I did act too weird 'cause
I was on mushrooms. That's that's me and Liz at Walmart. Dude, that's cool. We're homies. Great. We're homies super cool, high functioning it. Hurt my cheek so. High functioning the SO years and years ago I started a business and the IT had been a while like going to networking events.
We hadn't had a for sale yet. And I get a call and the IT rings all of every like I have three business partners, which was a stupid decision at the beginning, but it rang everyone's phones and I'm on 3 1/2 grams of mushrooms in the middle of a trip full like the full on set and no one's picking up. So my phone just keeps ringing and I was like, oh shit, what if this is a sale? And I pick it up and I answer and I talk to this dude in the middle of my trip. I close our very first sale in
the middle of my mushroom trip. And it was like, and then I called them all like right after. I'm like, bro, what the hell? Like I mean, it's cool that I took it. It's probably better that I took it but like. Well, yeah, you're closing deals on three grams, man. That is, that's some love. It's 'cause you loved him. Yeah, I, I, well, I, I truly was like, I listened and I was like, what's going on? And he just like opened up and I was like, well, what do you, what do you need? Right.
And I, I listened to him like we can do that. And your nerves probably were. Zero. And so it was like it was crazy. And I just truly like, I heard more than I ever did normally and it was just on the phone. I was like. So you heard it first, like all you have to do is do 3 grams of mushrooms. And then go knock. Any doors? Yeah, Go, go. Hey, if you're not going to do it for you, if you're not going to do it for your wife, do it for me. I know that voice you're talking
about, right? And just Grant Cardone, right. And just over there going. I look it's it's if you can't do it for them, come on, do it for me do it for me do it for me. I love that way. Hey, what? Just do it anyways. The do it anyways playlist. Just do it anyways. Yeah, dude, Yeah, My wife wouldn't like this, Sir. Sometimes you just kind of do it anyways. You know you're the tractor like he. That's funny. Dude it is absolute comedy gold. Go listen to.
Had a lot of fun doing it. Oh, it was awesome because I held my breath and then I thought, like, life is magical. That's what I thought. I thought I was a magician. I was like, people are buying this shit. Like, but when I say buying this shit, buying the cells technique, yeah, like pest control, Yeah, that's also shit. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, they're buying, buying bullshits. Yeah, I buy pest control. So I mean, it's not. No, I buy pest control too.
Come get my that sugar ants, he told me. There's sugar ants in my kitchen. Wow. What the fuck? You're like bro, no, I just dropped sugar. Those aren't ants. No, but I mean it. It's yeah, dude, it's, that's actually, it's one of the funniest damn things. So if you haven't heard the Closer Survival Guide, like it's hilarious 'cause it, I mean, it does. It did work at one time. Now, not so much. I think somebody would go what the fuck is wrong with this guy, but it's hilarious.
A lot of people do that, but but some people because I. Smile when I hear it. You know how like what, what I I get back to what drives me. I guess I want to sell people because if you buy something you like me and I'm trying to fulfill a need for being like and it's a safe, safe self worth. That's what I think. Yeah, that's what I think. And that's why I think I love sells and I love closing and I get a high from 'cause I'm just like, yeah, I'm doing good. I have self worth because I'm
getting paid. Plus this person agreed with me. Boom. And most people are, I think are under my same shoes, that there's some lack of self worth. And because of that, then there comes people pleasing because I need this person to like me, right? So I'm gonna just say yes, it's the same thing. I wanna sell you or I just wanna say yes, I wanna hear you out because I need you to like me and I don't want you to feel bad. And then whatever I was going to say after that was going to come.
It's been way too much time on that people anyways. I, well, no. What did you say right before that though? It was tying into. I don't remember. OK good, so it's not just me. I feel way better about myself. Good, you're good. It's just enjoyable, Thanks. For raising myself? No dude, you should. I mean. No dude, there there are no accidents it. Just happens that's why the sales techniques work. Because most people are insecure and lack that self worth and
self love. So even though I'm a freaking stranger on the door, they wanna help me and they want to see that they are needed and that they can help me by writing a check. And that's why I can get most, I shouldn't say I you can get most people to just agree with you with those bullshit techniques. You just push them. They don't wanna do it. But you could make people do what they don't wanna do if they're insecure. That's what I think, yeah. Yeah, no, I mean that's.
Why I'm I've always been an easy self. People knock on my door, bite, I used to bite, whatever, and now I don't feel as bad and it's just like, no, if it doesn't make sense, let me save your time, go to the next door. Right. It's not always a fit, just isn't. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do. I'm like, honestly, I'm not going to buy this. You're wasting your time. Like, but they might be a good fit. They just bought this house. They're doing this and they're
like. Oh yeah, dude, there was the guy with the guy who did pest control. He's over there. He's like, yeah, we just got the Browns on there, I said I don't know who the fuck they are. And he goes. I would use that technique all the time. And people say that I'm like, Oh yeah, just never. Yeah, just move on. Like that didn't work. Yeah, it was awesome. That off redirect move on his face. Dude, he was like, and I'm just looking at him like, what else
you got right? I was just like, I don't fucking. Care just roll off that way. Oh. Your neighbor did it too. Did he suck your Dick too 'cause I mean, I've heard he does that and he's like. Yeah, dude. Why were you asking me these? Things he signed on the dotted line. Bro it was sad. Because it works on people, dude. People are like, oh the, the, the joke, dude. I remit. Like I haven't had this thought
in 10 years. I remember as a kid growing up, somebody knocked on the door and I, I as a kid, they're like, oh, can you get your parents? And usually my mom is like, tell them not home like as they can hear, you know, right. And this guy said, oh, I just came over from the tippets house or this and that. And I was like, oh, this is important. Yeah. Worked on my young mind and I was like, Oh no, no, no, mom, somebody at the door. Yeah, tell them I'm busy.
No, mom, they just came from the tippets. They just came from the tippets. Now by 5 bites like oh so they're going well if it's the tippets I don't get my ass. We had the tippets in my neighborhood too and oh shit. He knows. He knows already. I don't know. I mean, I might have known some tippets, but they weren't important enough to be next door. Like, you know, we just talked to the tippets. Well, fuck the tippets because we don't like them. Like, I mean, nobody says that.
Like maybe I'm going to do that next time because they know how I am in my neighborhood and be like, oh, you came from the gills. Fuck that guy, dude. He's full of shit. He ever smells like fish anyway. I don't like that guy anyways. You've seen you've met my wife, haven't you? Yeah, at least on FaceTime. No, I've met her in person before. Have you met her before? I shouldn't. Think so. She's. She's older than, she's 36 years old, but she's tiny.
She looks, yeah, she will still do like, because a few people when they knock on our door will be like, are your parents home? And so she goes without all the time. And she's like, oh, they're not home. I'm like, you're 36. That's fantastic. So awesome. But like, they're just gonna come back. Like if it was me, I, I stayed a neighborhood for a month. I'm gonna get to even all the people that don't buy it. It's OK. I but I do wanna know every person's name.
And that's also the difference between pest control that you go through a neighborhood in a, in a day versus solar. And you just, you get to know every person because even if they already have solar, I'm tying this back into the relationships. At the beginning of the conversation, it was, oh, why do you have solar? I would knock on I, I can't sell someone if they would have solar, but I would knock on the door. How long ago did you get solar? What do you like about it?
What do you don't like about it? Because if you're pissed and you're the neighbors and you guys are friends and I knock on your door, you don't want solar because of Jesse's experience. But if I knock on your door and say, and actually, this is how it it, it would be used if they did it correctly. I just got over from Jesse's house and I'm sure you've noticed he has solar. Yes, I don't know if he shared this with you, but he's having a bad experience because of XYZ.
The reason he got solar was he thought it was no money down half the cost and instant savings whatever and a fixed bill. But it ended up turning out to be this because they didn't tell him XYZ. What I'm doing is what Jesse originally wanted to do, you know, but it's like, that's a, that's a story. Not not just a I, I came from your neighbors, but like that's
a true story. And I will use that story for the entire neighborhood if I get a good story, even though they don't know where he's at. And I just say over on Fable St. which is one street over, as long as he's with him, nobody knows who Jesse is on Fable Street. But the story is true. And if they wanted to verify me, they can. And that's an N. That's an N because I've built a relationship. That makes a lot of sense, but that's way more intentional selling than just going outgoing.
Hey I talked to SO and SO and they just bought our shit too so. You know what I want to do though with the next door door sales kid And if I especially if I say I'm like the guy who who did the pest control, he did a great job. He really did. But the other kid who came over there, like, I wish I would have done something like as I'm getting closer to the door going. And I thought, I fucking see that shit again. I'm going to shoot. Somebody and then open the door going what do you want?
Just like. You obviously look busy, Sir. No, you got my attention, what the fuck do you want? And then laugh after going just kidding dude down. I don't want it. Dude, the, the, the, the, the like you meet people like that when, when you're, when you're not a fucker out with you. Oh yeah, that's awesome. But it's fun. At the beginning it wasn't 'cause I'm like, oh, this is just again, sell, sell, sell, sell, sell. I was pest control to solar.
I, I wanted to get to know and, and I, and I'm still not saying that I want to get to know you for you. I still, it's fully selfish, but I have a purpose to get to know you and how many kids you have and how long you've had solar or if you're a renter and why are your landlord has any cons because that information is useful. So I, I still build a relationship, but I do like, I have to talk to every single person in the neighborhood and get to know them. So very, very, very different.
And it's just, and when you have that mentality and you have a guy like that that's joking around, you love it because you're like, he just wants to chill. I just wanna chill too. Can I get my guard? Can I, can I go get a, can I grab water? And the other thing is like pest control. I had to sell multiple a day to stay in the lead, you know, have to throw it on five accounts a day where solar cycle. I need a deal or two a week and I'm good, you know, cuz you're getting paid. Way more.
Yeah, that makes a lot more sense. Dude, that's awesome man. Thank you so much man for coming out cuz this has been long overdue. But the cool thing is we're glad we didn't do it then. Yeah, 'cause it's perfect now it's perfect time to do there's there's no, there's no accidents. It's right where it's supposed to be. Yeah. So for everyone at home, how do they find you? How do they listen to your show?
Bennettmaxwell.com that's has links to the podcast, which is Deeper than Dough, and it focuses on the mission of finding joint fulfillment despite life's dirtiness, and then links to all my social media 'cause I try to post a few times a day on this stuff. Business, life, philosophy, family. Yes, we'll have a links over there all. Those in the show notes. Yeah, and if you are close to a Dirty Doe, you'll know it. You gotta go check it out. It's pretty awesome.
Go get some dirty ass cookies. Yeah, please do. And yeah, leave some comments down there. Ask us some of the questions of what we should have asked them. You know, like what's his favorite position? Or, you know, what does he what does he do when the lights are? Or what was the weirdest thing he saw in mushrooms? Yeah, or why does he have a dungeon? You know, ask him these questions. Why don't you have a dungeon? That's you know what. Thanks for joining us. See you next year.