Canada land funded by you. I've just requested that the governor general dissolve parliament and call an election for April 28th. She has agreed. I'm Jesse Brown, and today we're talking about Canada's election for independence. We are facing the most significant crisis of our lifetimes because of President Trump. This one is different. than anything done before. Wait for it.
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Who should you vote for? Who should I vote for? I don't know, man. Like, what do I know about these guys? Let's start with Pierre. I remember the first time we spoke. The only time we spoke, actually. Turning then to Mr. Polly Ebb. Care floor is yours. Thank you very much. My question is for Mr. Brown. It was the summer of 2020.
and I was testifying before a parliamentary committee. Mr. Brown, the government signed a contribution agreement not with WE Charity, as the Prime Minister first claimed, but with the WE... foundation whose sole purpose is real estate holdings. Do you not find this to be spectacularly bizarre? I guess he figured he'd take a shot and try to set me up to take a shot.
You know, maybe that's how the guy's brain works. Like, he was against Trudeau. He took me for being against the Kielbergers. They had been on the same team. That puts me and him on the same team in his head.
Why not lob a softball at me and see if I'll take a swing at an easy home run for him? My opinion of how strange that is is not something that I want to offer for the purpose of this committee. I hope you'll appreciate. I think people can come to their own conclusions about whether that is in fact. Really bizarre. And he goes ahead and tries again. So my next question is whether or not you have any speculation as to why the government would direct this kind of a contract.
to a real estate foundation instead of to the charity itself, and why the Kielburgers would prefer that arrangement. Again, I'm going to refrain from speculating, Mr. Polyev. I remember my impression of the guy after that. presumptuous little twerp, you know? And that was the last use he's had for me. I've been talking about Pierre Polyev ever since, but he won't talk to me, which I understand.
Entirely. There is no upside for him. Pierre, I might ask, how are you going to fund all of the forced rehab that you keep talking about? Pierre. How are you going to defund English CBC but not French CBC? How does that even work technically? These are not questions that he has answered anywhere. So why would he ever come and face them here?
So what about Kearney? What was the earliest impact Mark Kearney had on my life? Stable housing, access to housing is the foundation for success. Without housing, it's hard to focus on your future. Without housing, it's hard to start a family. Without housing, we can't build the strongest economy in the G7. I think that he touched my life many years ago. It was back in...
2011, pre-Canadaland. I was a freelance journalist and a new dad. We had a six-month-old baby. We lived in an apartment. We were making maybe $69,000 a year between the two of us. We'd saved up about that much for a down payment, like $70,000, $80,000. And we actually bought a house in downtown Toronto, a little row house. We did not have...
any money from tech investments. Not yet. We did not have any kind of big check from mom and dad. We did it on our own. Almost. There was a little bit of help from Uncle Mark Kearney. From the Financial Times, 2017. Mark Carney was governor of the Bank of Canada during the financial crisis. Carney cut interest rates early and often leading up to the financial crisis, including a surprise.
50 basis point reduction to 3.5% in March of 2008, shortly after taking office. Carney eventually cut rates to 25 basis points in 2009. So we spent every penny we had on that down payment, everything that we had saved up over years, and we took on a half million dollars of debt. It felt crushing just to conceive of that amount of money.
But then we were in. We were in the market. And, you know, we were house poor, but the monthly mortgage payments were lower than our rent had been at our old apartment. all thanks to Uncle Mark Carney and his record low interest rates. We had no idea how lucky we were because we snuck into the market right before the door slammed shut.
Reading again from the Financial Times piece from 2017, a long period of negative real estate interest rates led to an enormous misallocation of capital, again in residential real estate. A few years later, A huge housing bubble. Asset price inflation in stocks, bonds, and houses. Let's be clear, this mistake happened because Carney had a bias toward easier policy. So that's from a 2017 piece in the Financial Post titled...
Canada's housing bubble can be traced to Mark Carney. I don't know if civilization was ripped apart, but my family certainly got spread apart, spread around. By the time my younger cousin was ready to buy a house with his wife and baby, he's a school teacher, they had no chance of affording a down payment for a house in the city. They moved to another town.
About a 90-minute drive away. I don't think anybody amongst, like, younger relatives, younger friends, younger employees, none of them, if they're lucky enough to be able to buy property, buy it in my neighborhood, in my city. People are just living further and further apart. And it's hard for me to imagine my kids being able to live anywhere close to me. That row house that we bought in 2011 for like $600,000.
It's not worth almost three times that. What 30-year-old can pay a down payment on a $1.8 million house? Certainly not a journalist or a school teacher. The average household income in Canada is $70,000. There's been a huge increase in the price level over the course of the last five years. Grocery is more expensive. Housing has outstripped the ability of younger Canadians.
to most younger Canadians to save for deposits and get on the housing ladder. So I understand that. What the advantage of my experience... as governor of the Bank of Canada, working internationally, working with companies, et cetera, as an investor as well, because I know what to do about it. Mark Kearney, part of the solution. because he was part of the problem.
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and fast. Go to policyme.com, policyme.com. Check it out today. It's very difficult to believe. Look inside yourself, Rosemary. I mean, you start from a prior of conflict and ill will. I'm complying with all the rules. Your line of questioning is trying to invent new rules. I'm complying with the rules that Parliament has laid out and the responsibilities of the Ethics Commissioner. Let's take this apart piece by piece. All I've heard so far is people...
in the press talking about how he got snippy. We've seen a bit of Mark Carney's temper and horse race analysis of like, oh, if he's going to lose his temper at this stage of the game, how is he going to hold up? under the stress of a campaign and constant questions from the press. But I actually want to talk about the things he said, because we don't know this guy. We don't know this guy. We haven't elected this guy. Who is this guy?
I feel like he revealed some things about himself here. So let's just like actually deal with the words that he said to Rosemary Barton here. There's no possible conflict of interest in your assets. It's very difficult to believe. So in case any of that context is unclear, this guy's fucking loaded. He is a multimillionaire. It's reasonable to assume he's worth tens of millions of dollars.
And the question is like, hey, it's reasonable to think that you own stock in companies that are going to be affected by your decisions as a prime minister. So, yes, you've put your assets into a blind trust so that you can't buy and sell commodities to go along with your policy. But you are a highly intelligent financial guy who knows that the stocks are going to move up and down based on your.
Because you know what stocks you have, but we don't know that information. Now, you're going to have to divulge that in like 120 days it's going to come out, but by then the election will be over. Why don't you tell us now? which companies you have stock in so that we can look at your decisions and we can decide for ourselves, okay, this guy is on the up and up. He's obviously not doing this to enrich himself. And what's his answer to that?
Look inside yourself, Rosemary. He starts with look inside yourself. Like this question is a reflection of something that is dark and cynical in you, Rosie. You are starting from... a position that I'm in conflict of interest, a position of, what does he say, ill will? I think he's trying to say, you are starting from an assumption that I'm in bad faith, that I'm a corrupt guy. I mean, you start from a prior of...
of conflict and ill will. What a negative Nelly you are. What a jaded and jaundiced person you are. I'm following real rules, not rules set by the media, but by the ethics commissioner. The idea there is that that's a higher order of rule. But we know that it's not. The rules of the ethics commissioner...
are in fact a far lower standard. Everything that they do around conflicts of interest where, you know, they privately disclose and they set up a shield. These were rules that looked at, I don't know, the We Charity scandal. And they looked at the fact that Justin Trudeau's government was giving like a massive contract to the WE organization.
The same organization that paid Justin Trudeau's family hundreds of thousands of dollars in speaking fees. And those rules from the ethics commissioner said there's nothing wrong with that. So what is the role of the press? in these types of situations. The role of the press is not to defer to the higher authority of the conflict of interest commissioner. These commissioners only exist because journalists pointed out scandals in the past anyhow. And so the system had to...
internalize some sort of accountability. We're not supposed to defer to the ethics committee. No, we represent the public. It's an entirely reasonable thing for Rosemary Barton to ask him. Why don't you just tell us what you know, which companies you own stock in, so we can make sure that you're not dirty. And he comes back with, why don't you look inside of yourself?
It's not about me and my millions of dollars. It's about you and this very suspicious and skeptical way that you seem to look at other people. We will relentlessly pursue this positive agenda because Canadians know that negativity isn't strength. They know that negativity won't pay the rent or the mortgage.
The negativity won't bring down the price of groceries. Negativity won't win a trade war. So where's Pierre? Don't think that just because he's been missing from the headlines that he's not out there. posting stuff and doing stuff and saying stuff. He certainly has, just the media stopped paying attention to him. Remember when he put out those documentaries? Something new and strange has happened in Canada.
Canada is sitting on probably one of the largest housing bubbles of all times. Something we haven't seen before. An entire generation of youth now say they will never be able to afford a home. This is not normal for Canada. We've got a documentary, Housing Hell, a year ago. This was a 15-minute, highly produced, explanatory documentary.
Housing hell, how we got here and how we get out. And though it was hyperbolic. Double trouble. Think about that. Housing costs have gone up more since 2015 than they had in all the years before that. It did get into a high level of detail about how he holds Trudeau responsible for the housing crisis. And that got over a half a million views. He put out a far less...
substantial long-form piece called Wackos. I guess it was an attempt at humor. The weird, wild, woke, and wonderful world of the people running our country. There seems to be an overabundance of Wacko events in Canada these days. But who's behind them? Does capitalist democracy still work? That's the question being posed around kitchen tables. Over 600,000 people watched this attack on Trudeau. What's he doing now?
The Conservatives just put out a documentary, 13 Minutes, Carney in the Coal Mine. I'm 75 and look what I'm doing. Yeah, it's not the funnest thing. Pack this thing around. My whole career was six, seven days a week, 12, 14 hours a day, and I loved it. I used to work out and play softball on the weekends and just things I can't do anymore, but yeah, I was pretty healthy.
Trying to tug on heartstrings about all of these American coal miners who got black lung and that got screwed out of their insurance payments and treatments by a company. that Carney was involved in running, trying to pin this on Carney. Carney joined Brookfield in 2020 to, quote, combine positive social and environmental outcomes with strong risk-adjusted returns for investors.
Under Carney, Brookfield launched Brookfield Reinsurance, an insurance division operating out of Bermuda, free from Canadian regulations and taxes. Perhaps fairly so. I don't really know. The two lines he's running again and again are, he's just like Justin. Carney's just like Justin. He's carbon tax Carney. And the other thing is nothing has changed. He's got multiple videos titled, nothing has changed.
In the next election, I will be running against Justin Trudeau. Whether his name is Justin Trudeau or his name is Chrystia Freeland or Carbon Tax Carney or Carbon Tax Clark. They will all be Justin Trudeau. Polyev is a purpose-built machine. He is a bespoke creation, a self-creation. He is like a Terminator robot. The mission of this machine is to defeat Justin Trudeau. That's what he's built for. That's how he's designed. The robot is kind of malfunctioning.
is just not equipped to deal with an environment where the enemy is no longer Justin Trudeau. The tables have turned. Trudeau is out. Carney is in. He's sort of just on glitch, like, you're still Trudeau. You are Trudeau. A lot can happen in the actual campaign here. And if Carney is subjected to the media pressure and scrutiny, maybe he can muster up the discipline and learn on the job and not repeat those mistakes.
And not lose his shit again. No, you'll take that as a very comprehensive answer to your question. But if he continually looks like this to-the-manor-born waspy... Waspersen III lecturing journalists on their ugly cynicism. Well, it's an interesting question. Wait for a minute. Your line of questioning is trying to invent new rules. I'm complying with the rules. Polyev has a recent memory.
of being a 25-point favorite. He is going to get vicious as hell. You can guarantee that Polyev is going to do everything he can to make that happen. And that's why, just like as a spectator, this is going to be interesting and ugly. There is still a potential for yet another reversal of fortunes in this election. It's going to be fun to watch.
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liberals want me to know Polyev is Trump. Meanwhile, the conservative party wants me to know that Mark Carney is just like Justin Trudeau. Mark Carney enters the fray. The Bank of Canada's former governor takes a critical role to help the prime minister. The Liberal Party has announced Mark Carney will lead a new task force on economic growth.
Maybe it's not going to matter much ultimately to swap out Trudeau for Carney when you consider that this isn't just Polyev here. There is a global backlash against that kind. of establishment elite. And it's not going to be hard for Polyev to characterize Carney that way. This is not about a Canadian candidate. This is about a global trend of populism that Polyev has successfully harnessed for years.
Don't think that that just went away when Trudeau resigned. That's still there. And you think those people are ever going to vote for the Liberal Party? I don't know. That's what I would have said like a month or two ago, anyhow. Has everything changed in Canada? It kind of feels like Trump turning on Canada has reshuffled the deck.
It's like an emotional thing. It's like a gut level thing. He's done the impossible, I guess. He's found the nationalism in Canadians. And it's different. It's a different kind of nationalism than Trudeau. even at his height, was able to stir. I mean, even the people who really felt inspired by Justin Trudeau, they liked how he embodied Canadian sunny ways and Canadian tolerance and Canadian...
progressive this and that, and he was a good-looking guy, and there's a certain emotional resonance to that, but the negative is stronger. You know, the like... fuck you, we don't want to be Americans. Like, fuck you, we're going to be the 50th. Like, it's hitting deeper than what Trudeau hit. I think the deck is being reshuffled and the new, frankly, anti-American sentiment transcends the partisan lines that dominated here just like a month ago.
I'm reading again and again, you know, this is going to be an election fought over the question of who can best handle Trump. But is it impossible to imagine something a little bit beyond that? What if the challenge is going to be about steering Canada into whatever lies after? this symbiotic drag along relationship i don't want to talk about silver linings here but
Is it impossible to imagine something beyond that? I mean, maybe we have to imagine something beyond that. Like if this is not about who can get the best deal, if there is no great deal to be had, then. Out of necessity, we got to figure out a lot of stuff. And the right prime minister, the right choice is going to be the guy who can do that. And all of this stuff about you're like.
Justin Trudeau, well, you're like Trump. That's not going to matter at all. So what is going to matter? If the thing that we all ultimately share, like people who are very different here, very different. People in Quebec, people in the oil patch, people in BC, we're not fucking Americans and we don't ever want to be fucking Americans. We're actually going to have to figure out what we're about. Instead, I started this company out of a frustration with the mediocrity of Canadian-ness.
The inability of Canadian media to just like actually focus on Canada or act like what happens here matters. Maybe you've noticed that the other Canadian news podcasts like half the time aren't about Canada. Like everything in this country is about America. Even our prime ministerial candidates are like, well, you're just a stand in for Trump. Wouldn't it be a kick in the head if the outcome of all of this.
is that everything we took for granted is gone and we actually have to stand on our own two feet and figure out where we stand in the world apart from America. I don't think that there's going back. I don't think I can go back in the way that I feel about the states. Mark or Pierre? I don't know. Like, have either of these guys actually just said what they see happening if they're prime minister?
In the next few years, have they described how we're going to get through this and what we're going to look like afterwards? I mean, maybe they can't because it's just all about reacting because they don't know. They don't know how serious, how extreme this American isolationism is. It feels like there's an opportunity though, doesn't it? Like, it feels like one of them could just stand up and... articulate a vision of Canada, of what Canada could be independent of Trump's whims. It's possible.
That this is one of those moments where a politician could actually inspire people. Take that offense, that punch to the gut, and that uncertainty, that anxiety. about where things are headed and turn it into resolve and community. And ultimately, that's who you got to vote for. I'm just saying.
That's your Canada Land. I hope you enjoyed it. We are going to be covering the heck out of this election. And if you tune into our politics edition tomorrow, Noor and the politics team are going to be going very granular on what the Conservatives are going to do next. Today's episode is brought to everybody by supporters Ryan Shaskowski, Ray Zink, and Gideon Athers. And I hope you'll join them and become a CanadaLand supporter. We need people to support.
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You can email me about anything you heard at jesse at canadaland.com. I read everything you send. Our senior producer is Bruce Thorson. Audio production and editing from Caleb Thompson. Today's episode was fact-checked by Julian Abraham. Max Collins is our director of audio. Our theme music is by So Called. Syndication is handled by CFUV 101.9 FM in Victoria. Visit them online at cfuv.ca. You can listen to Canada Land ad-free on Amazon Music, included with Prime.
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