I'm Jesse Brown, and today, my love, we're talking shit about the news. We'll talk about improving our relationship with porn. And we'll talk about what comes after Canada's messy breakup with the United States. We're going to go dating. We're going to go on, what's it called? What's that? Tumblr, Rumbler, Tinder, Tinder. Wait for that. This episode is brought to you by Oxio. Predictability.
That would be kind of nice right now, wouldn't it? The news is full of chaos and surprise, but your internet bill does not have to be. Oxio offers great internet at one price that does not change. So lock in your forever price. Head over to canadaland.oxio.ca and use the code canadaland for your first month free. That is canadaland.oxio.ca and use the code canadaland for your first month free. This episode is brought to you by Douglas.
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Get the sheets, pillows, mattress, and pillow protectors free with your Douglas purchase today. Visit douglas.ca slash Canada Land to claim this offer. Quick message before the show about buying Canadian. I know this is something that people are thinking about more than ever, but when you think about buying Canadian, have you thought about your Netflix subscription, Apple TV, Prime, Disney Plus?
Look, I don't want to guilt you. Like, I subscribe to some of those services, but these companies, these guys, Jeff Bezos, Tim Cook, the whole U.S. tech sector, they are lining up behind Trump. They are happy to take money from us Canadians while they support a president who is actively threatening our sovereignty, the sovereignty of their own customers.
I'm getting behind this Buy Canada thing because I think it's the only language that's going to matter to U.S. industry. If they lose a big chunk of business from Canada, that can put pressure on... U.S. big business to in turn put pressure on the U.S. government to back away from this hostility, this idiocy. And so what we're doing here at Canada Land to support Buy Canada is we're giving away ad space.
to other great Canadian businesses. You will be hearing about some really great Made in Canada products in the days and weeks ahead from us. And what I'm asking from you is... I don't know, maybe think about canceling one of those increasingly expensive US streaming subscriptions and support Canada Land instead. Like seriously, if you have like three of those streaming services, you're probably paying like 50 bucks a month for American media. Support Canadian media.
We're like nine bucks a month or 15 bucks a month. You could cancel one of those American streamers, sign up for Canada land and end up saving money. You'll be buying Canadian. You will help us keep the lights on during a difficult time. And look, I know we're not making Squid Game here, but we are producing gripping, bingeable stories, Canadian stories. You will get all of our stuff, including The Copernic Affair, our new bingeable series.
Ad free with a ton of bonus material that nobody else gets. Go to Canada land.com slash join by Canadian and help support what we're doing here. Welcome back to the show. Jan Wong. Hi. It is Valentine's Day, Jan Wong. Let's talk about breakups. So sad. Canada could be breaking up with the U.S. We've had this great relationship for so long.
The trust has been broken. A mix of anger and shock. It's not just a trade relationship. Rollercoaster of a week in the U.S. relationship with Canada. Oh, my God. Things have been very fractious. We got to do this and he won't do it. We got to do that and he won't do it. This seems really fast and messy. And we have to stop the rhetoric that, you know, we are weak without them. And it hurts, frankly. It's frustrating. It hurts. We care. We care tremendously.
Our two countries though have come back from a similar incident before. We are sticking up for ourselves and we are pushing back. At what point is Canada's relationship with the U.S. beyond repair? Eventually you're going to have to pick up the pieces. Is it time for Canada to get a divorce? What they say about breaking up, Jan, it's true. It's hard to do. It is hard to do. I feel like Canada needs therapy or life coaching right now. The mood is one of like a spurned lover.
Everyone is trying to figure out, like, what am I supposed to think of America? Do I boo America now? Can I not go to America? Could I have done something different? Is it our fault? I know. It's kind of sad. There's always anger. That's one stage in the process. And this piece, this very spiteful piece, people were like, they were feeling this piece here. This is a piece by Pete McMartin from the Vancouver Sun.
Farewell to my American friends. It's over. Goodbye, America. It's been nice knowing you. Goodbye, New York and your Jewish delicatessens. Corned beef sandwiches stacked as high as your skyline. Goodbye, Detroit, my boyhood neighbor. Goodbye, Bellingham, Seattle, and Portland. How I'll miss my Cascadian cousins with our shared Pacific sensibilities. And while I'm at it, goodbye to the cheap gas and shoreline cottages of Point Roberts. What was once so close has never been so far.
Goodbye to the cowards on both sides of the border. Goodbye to anyone on both sides of the border who bends the knee to Trump rather than standing up to him. Goodbye to tepid patriotism. If Trump has done us any favor, it is awakening us to the fact that we can no longer take Canada's existence for granted. We're going to have to relearn our independence and fight any way to keep it. You go, girl.
Goodbye to negotiation, wheedling, genuflecting, or feel-good hands across the border fairy tales. So goodbye, America. It's been nice knowing you, but I don't know you anymore. I've reached the point in our relationship where any admiration I've had for you has been replaced by a new angry resolve, which is... I won't consort with the enemy. Gee, you missed your calling. You should be in daytime soaps. That went like viral. People were like fist pumping in the air over that piece.
I think a lot of Canadians feel like that. We're kind of like, wait, what did we ever do to you? We've only spent our dollars there and enjoyed going to the U.S., but happy to come home. Why are you treating us like that? It is like that boyfriend or girlfriend on Valentine's Day who totally betrays you. I think we're all feeling that betrayal of our longtime affection. Funny you should use that word. New York Times, betrayed. How Trump's tariff threat...
Tore the U.S.-Canada bond. The damage to the relationship could be lasting. I think so, yeah. AP News, after Trump declares a trade war, Canadians grapple with a sense of betrayal. Here's the Toronto Star advising anger. Advising anger? That's so Canadian. I advise anger. Yes. Opinion. Why Canadians need to hold on to their anger at Donald Trump. Oh boy.
We're such a funny country. I think we feel kind of shocked. We've watched the election south of the border. We've lived through all the, you know, Biden, why doesn't he step down? Okay, Kamala's going to run. Oh, she'll get elected, right? Because she's like smart and intelligent and Trump is a convicted felon. And then we go, wait, wait.
It really is like living next to or maybe in a duplex with a crazy guy on the main floor and you can't even get out your house without kind of like having to go by the windows. I think we feel trapped. We are trapped. We have the longest border with them and they don't like us. They don't care about us. We're nothing. You know, what's interesting is in this firehose of news.
The tariffs are like one minor thing in their newscast. And for us, it's like the only thing we can talk about. Oh yeah, they've already moved on. There's like five other things from Trump since this.
It feels like an afterthought to him that he has to be reminded of. Like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to do that. Yeah, on the plane to the Super Bowl, we're so nothing. He just tosses it off to the reporters who are, like, asking him questions on his... plane and then it's like wait wait what we have the terrorists back it's like and then he goes to the super bowl like that's where we are in the hierarchy of things that
matter to the americans it was suggested that if was it josh wingrove was the canadian reporter who asked him on air force one about the tariffs if he hadn't been asked the question he might have not don't ask him I thought, don't bring it up again. Maybe he'll forget.
The analogy of the abusive relationship does come up. Toronto Sun, Warren Kinsella, writing, this isn't a friendship anymore. It's an abusive relationship. We'd be crazy to go crawling back to our abuser. I mean, it is like an abusive relationship in that... Though victim blaming is wrong, it raises questions. Like, why were you with this person to begin with? And how much...
How much are you willing to take and how much are you willing to excuse and enable? And how much were you always excusing and enabling? It's a really good point because right now I think there is a big appetite. for Canada to stop putting all our hopes and all our affection to the US. And we're going to develop exactly what the US, if they had any brains at all. would try to stop, which is we're going to develop more relationships with the EU and with China, right?
We're going to start seeing other people. That's it. We're going to go dating. We're going to go on, what's it called? What's that? Tumblr, Rumbler, Tinder, Tinder. I think you know it's Grindr, Jan. Oh, no, I don't. And Jan, that is exactly what the Toronto Star said. I'm dumping you, America. Thanks to Trump's tariffs, I'm ready to date other countries. But...
Aren't we rushing into things? Aren't we missing a chance to take inventory? Jean Charest saying that the tariff threat is forcing Canada to have a hard look at itself, says former Quebec premier. Interprovincial trade barriers. Knock them down. He's right.
Where everybody in Canada is astounded to find out we don't have free trade within our own country. It's the most boring topic. When you're a business reporter, no one wants to hear about that. But it's time to look at it and it's time to tear them down. Yeah. You weren't properly loved. What's time to love yourself? Have you been trading with yourself? You go, go look for a new trade partner. More self-love. This angry, defiant.
Did you think I'd lay down and die? I will survive and I'm going alone and I'm going to make it and I'm going to see other people and I'm going to become stronger is a fucking fantasy. I'm sorry. No, no, no, no. I don't think it's a fantasy. No, we're very globalized. It's like you're defaulting to the same ethic that Trump is asserting.
Which is that he's better off alone. So we'll be better off alone. Oh, no, no. We're not going to go alone. We're going to date a whole bunch of other people. We're going to sleep around. It's probably a good thing for us to have this breakup and to start dating other people. I think that's a good thing for us. I just think that it's foolish to think that we can truly isolate ourselves. Like the extent 50% of our steel is sold to America. The trade relationship.
between Canada and America, like we're going to find out just how extensive that is. We're going to find out just how beholden we are. Not to the states, but to the relationship, because it's a back and a forth. Well, this is not the first time that the tariffs have been imposed. So we do know what the impact is. It was imposed in the first term. Of that specific tariff.
That specific tariff had a 15%. I was hearing negative impact on the Canadian steel industry. But also it increased steel prices in the U.S. It did not do what it was supposed to do, which is protect the U.S. steel industry. They did not increase production. So that's the whole point of tariffs is protectionism so that your domestic industries have a chance to grow and raise their prices.
That didn't happen because these are industries that take a long time to get started up and running and build plants. But don't you feel like the reason why he backed off the first time was he came at it with a mallet.
And then he's like, all right, all right, all right. I'll come back with a hammer. You know, it was a little bit too broad. So it's going to be more extensive than the first Trump administration. It's going to be more than the steel tariffs. It is a trade war. It's already a trade war.
You kind of feel like it didn't really happen in the first administration and then the threat a few weeks ago. Well, that didn't happen. So you're kind of getting used to like, no, it's not really. It's going to happen. And then rather than it actually being a process of like America is going to go its own way and we're going to just.
other trade alliances and that's it for the relationship both sides are going to realize just how painful it is and both are going to ease away from the tit for tat and slowly rework the deal and Trump is gambling that the reworked deal will be one that's in his benefit. Maybe, but I think we'll also strengthen trade ties with other countries. Yeah, and I agree that is a good thing because it is too much dependence.
The same process that's going to happen here is there, which is it's going to hurt really bad, but we might come out of it with a more diverse array of trading partners and more independence. After the break, we'll talk about how this international codependent relationship started in the first place. And we'll dip into the archives to hear an old Brian Mulrooney, John Turner clip that has been making the rounds for all the wrong reasons. Oh, but first...
Here's a message from one of Canada Land's reporters who is looking for some help on a story that she's been working on for us. Hi, my name is Courtney Kosak. I am a writer, podcaster, and former Girls Gone Wild merch girl. That is right. I worked on the Girls Gone Wild tour when I was 21, way back in 2005. And I have been thinking about it ever since.
sense. And I am now reporting a story for Canada Land about my experience, about the company as a whole, about its presence in Canada, and about the culture that enabled it. And I want to hear from you. So if you have any... Maybe you went to one of their parties. Maybe you were on one of their videos. I especially want to hear from girls that were on.
Girls Gone Wild videos. Maybe they just came to your town and you had strong feelings one way or another. I would love to hear from you. My email is hello at CourtneyCosack.com. Again, that is hello. Courtney Kosak, last name is K-O-C-A-K. dot com. Reach out to me that way. Spread the word far and wide that I am looking for voices and make sure you check back early and often. We will have that story coming to you in just a few short weeks and you are definitely going to want to hear it.
This episode is brought to you by Oxio. News always hard to predict, but Jen, in this unpredictable news cycle, what is something that you take comfort in its predictability? What's something you can count on? That the traffic in Toronto will be hell? That's pretty predictable. You could take comfort in the absolutely baffling shit show that is waiting for you in downtown Toronto every single day, or...
Your Oxeo bill always being the exact same price. That's what I take comfort in. Month after month, year after year, the figure remains steadfast. It will not budge. It does not change. It is a forever price. The connection is also really reliable. At my house, we put our internet connection to the test. I'm constantly doing work video calls while somebody else is playing video games with 18 other people and there's a 4K movie streaming somewhere. Oxio is fast, steady, and consistent.
In the rare cases where I've had to get in touch with Oxio, their customer service was friendly and efficient. No waiting on hold. What are you waiting for? Lock in your forever price. Go to CanadaLand.oxio.ca. Use the code CanadaLand for your first month free. That's CanadaLand.oxio. Xio.ca and use the code Canada land for your first month free. This episode is brought to all by Douglas. Jen, how would you describe like a Canadian sleep? Um, deep.
under many, many quilts because it's so cold outside and quiet because the world's blanketed in white stuff. It's good. Canadian sleep is good. Lovely. Just doesn't miss a beat. I love doing things with you. Okay. You are correct. Waking up to a fresh snowfall is the ideal Canadian sleep. The only thing that can make it more Canadian, Jan, is if you're waking up on a Douglas mattress.
These are made in Canada mattresses. They're trusted by over 250,000 Canadians. Douglas understands that Canadians aren't like firm, but we love medium firm in our mattresses. That's very Canadian. Yeah, medium firm. These are very comfortable mattresses. I've tried them. They're like a premium product, but not at a deluxe price.
I like the motion isolation. I like the eco light cooling gel foam layer. The best part is that you can have one shipped to you for free anywhere in this country from coast to coast to coast. It's risk-free. You've got 365 nights to test out your Douglas mattress if you don't like it. Send it back.
Buy Canadian, sleep Canadian with a tariff-proof made-in-Canada Douglas mattress. They are giving our listeners a free sleep bundle with each mattress purchase. Here's what you get. Sheets, pillows, mattress and pillow protectors free with your Douglas purchase today. Visit douglas.ca. slash Canada land to claim this offer. That is douglas.ca slash Canada land. It's interesting how people are emotionally responding to this. Like one clip that.
is from the Canadian archives that everybody is passing around is this rebuke that John Turner delivered to Mulroney after free trade went through. And it's funny because this was also like part of the stages of like dealing with a broken up relationship is regret.
Like, could I have done anything different? Like, I made a mistake to ever get together with you in the first place. I should have had my head examined. And with that in mind, people are turning to this John Turner clip. We built a country east. And west and north, we built it on an infrastructure that deliberately resisted the continental pressure of the United States. For 120 years, we've done it. With one signature of a pen, you've reversed that.
thrown us into the north-south influence of the United States and will reduce us, I'm sure, to a colony of the United States because when the economic levers go, the political independence is sure to follow. Mr. Turner, with a document that's cancelable on six months' notice? Be serious.
Be serious. Cancellable. You're talking about our relationship with the United States. Commercial document that's cancellable on six months' notice? Commercial document. That is what it is. It is a commercial treaty. It relates to every facet of our life. It is commercial treaty. It's far more important to us than it is to the United States, sir.
Far more important. Please be serious. Well, I am serious. I've never been more serious in my life. That's really interesting. As soon as we got in bed with America with free trade, our lines of influence shifted from east-west to north-south. And as John Turner predicted, inevitably, you're going to become a colony of the United States if you fall under their economic influence. I actually agree with Mulroney. I can't believe I just said that. But trade is good. Free trade is good.
You're on the wrong side of history if you want to put tariffs on, and that's what Turner's saying. He says, oh, we've got to have protectionism. No. You need free trade. I agree. And I think that this is being completely misunderstood by people. People are sharing this. In effect, they're agreeing with Trump. People are sharing this clip and saying, we made a mistake to ever...
form this free trade agreement with you. But it's not what John Turner predicted. It's not that having free trade with the U.S. is what ultimately led to ruin and we lost our autonomy, we got swallowed up by the states. No. It's not having free trade anymore that's now threatening us. They're going back on that deal is the danger to Canada. I remember I was in the Globe and Mail.
Report on Business section, most of the reporters were really upset with Mulroney, except one of my buddies, Peter Cook, who was a columnist, and me. We were like the only ones who go, wait, no, this is good. Guys, read Economics 101. Trade is good. Take down the trade barriers. Grow your own industries, the areas that you have economic advantage in.
I also wanted to talk about how an individual can be patriotic and how do you shop. All right. Talk about Canadian patriotism. So I think a lot of people are angry and what you can do as an ordinary Canadian. And it's not that you have to shop Canadian. You have to shop not U.S. I think that a lot of the news reports got it all wrong. Because if you shop Canadian basically all winter, you're not going to have any vegetables or fruit. You don't like turnips?
Yeah, I like turnips, but I don't want to just eat turnips. So you can go into any grocery store and you can buy everything. You can buy oranges. They don't come from the U.S. You can get them from Spain or Morocco. Lemons. Lettuce can come from Mexico and I feel even happier when I'm buying Mexican because I feel like they're sort of persecuted like we are. You can buy almost anything and I boycotted.
American orange juice when Trump was first elected, and I don't miss it at all. And it turns out that juice is actually not good for you because it's all sugar. But it's not simple because some of the stuff that are American brands... are actually made in Canada or they use Canadian potatoes or, you know, like Whole Foods. It's owned by Amazon, right? But they employ Canadians. Don't be stupid about it.
But you don't have to buy grapes from California. Remember when we boycotted, you don't remember, you're too young. We boycotted grapes in South Africa. And it was effective because of apartheid. So that's what I do. I just check the labels and I say really loudly in the produce section, oh, these grapes are from the U.S. I'm not buying them. But look, there's some from Peru. They think I'm a little crazy.
I bet you do that, too. I bet you announce that to the produce section. I do. You know what? I'm surprising myself, but I'm into it because, look, I need people to care about Canadian institutions and invest in them right now. Our business relies on it.
We've offered free ad space to other Canadian businesses and like a lot of Canadian businesses have taken us up on that. And I'm kind of having this moment of like, wow, we make a lot of cool shit here. Like people, like there's all these wonderful little businesses that are sending us samples and we're going to be doing ads for them.
And I don't know, it's sort of contrary to my personality to kind of like get with the team. Yeah, me too. But I'm having a moment. So we're going to get through this, Jan. I will love again. Oh, okay. Okay. We'll just send ourselves flowers from Columbia, not from the U.S. Yeah.
On this program, we duly note stories that otherwise might go overlooked. Jan, what do you have to duly note today? Well, for Valentine's, you know, I thought, you know, sexual assault was a theme. And I want to duly note, you know, the famous... rapist in France who drugged his wife and brought in guys to rape her while she was completely unconscious. I do know that awful story, yes. So it turns out they found more.
possible victims. He's been charged with two other rapes from the 1990s, so 30 years earlier. And the point I want to make is he was able to... rape his way through France if those latest allegations are true. It's not just his wife was his victim. He was able to do this until victims of a more minor crime, filed an official complaint. And this minor crime were women in a shopping mall, and he had a camera that he was using to look up their skirts. Uh-huh.
The first time he got caught doing that in a supermarket was in 2010 and nothing happened because people didn't complain. He got let off. He got a fine. The second time was in 2020. The security guard at the mall persuaded the victims to file an official complaint, which enabled the police to then open an investigation, take his DNA.
And now the DNA was put in the French database and they found out that there were two women who were sexually assaulted way back in 1999 and 1991. And one of them was murdered. And so he's not yet. been charged with murder. He might not be, but the woman was raped and murdered. Oh, God. So the point I want to make is everyone should file complaints. It's your civic duty.
If he looked up your skirt and you go, I don't want to waste two hours at the police station. I don't care. It didn't really affect me. Pervert. No, you need to. You need to follow through because that's how they caught him. That's how they looked at his. house and found his laptop and found out he was sexually assaulting his wife. It all stemmed from this shopping mall, looking up your skirt complaint. So I just want to say it's really important for you.
as citizens to follow through. Because it might not mean a lot to you, but it could get some crazy rapist like this put away for good. Wow. First of all, you have a way of celebrating Valentine's Day, January. Journalists. That's how journalists celebrate Valentine's Day. I think that that's a really practical and useful message. It's not one that I think...
I would dare to make. I think there's a lot of empathetic and compassionate discourse around like just how hard it is for women to go through the system when they make complaints and you put everything that they might endure. in making the complaint up against the likelihood that there will actually be a consequence.
And I think that a lot of victims make the choice quite reasonably just to get on with things and not put themselves through that. But this is a new angle to that that I hadn't considered. And you're right. I'm always right. Even if nothing happens to the guy.
You are creating a record. You are creating a paper trail. You are establishing a precedent. You're putting them on the radar. And taking a DNA sample. And getting the DNA in the records. And this is compulsive behavior. The people who do this don't stop. And they tend to escalate and escalate. So I would not dare to tell people that it is their civic duty. No, you can't. It's hard for you to do that.
I am not in a role to say that, but on this Valentine's day, I think that's really, that's really good advice for people. So duly noted. I also would like to ruin Valentine's Day. I just am hoping that we can evolve our discussion on pornography. Let's talk about porn this Valentine's Day. There was an interview with one of the Canadian owners of Pornhub that ran in the National Post. Big, long feature interview. And it was a snowball of an interview. It was a puff piece. No job. Not a snowball.
You're getting too Canadian. Thank you. No job. But it was interesting. So you may remember Pornhub was the focus of a lot of investigation. Nicholas Kristof wrote this damning piece in The Times, and they became public enemy number one, and there were legislative processes against them. for very disturbing and legitimate reasons. There were underage girls.
essentially child porn could be found on Pornhub. There were people who had like revenge porn of them on Pornhub that couldn't get it taken down. There were people whose lives were being really screwed up by Pornhub and they were kind of like... complicit or involved in really terrible crimes in the way in which these platforms that serve billions of videos and have open forums, not to make apologies, but I think it is relevant context.
the extent to which some of these services are like a billboard that anybody can post something on. And then invariably sooner or later, terrible stuff gets posted. And I think it was appropriate to turn. the focus on the owners and ask them what they're doing about this. And it's kind of a funny thing because when the other platforms say, well, we can't possibly control, you know, Nazi content on Facebook and the retort is always like, well, you're able to keep porn off.
If you can keep porn off, then you keep the Nazis off. So when you look at Pornhub, you're like, well, you guys keep the porn on, can you leave the child porn off? And I think that they went through all kinds of... restructuring and new rules and even new ownership. So now Solomon Friedman, an Ottawa-based criminal defense lawyer and ordained rabbi, is an unlikely public face of Pornhub.
And he gave this interview to the National Post. So some people are never going to want to hear from the people who run Pornhub and nothing that the owners of a site like that say is going to satisfy the problems they have. I live in the real world where pornography exists. I won't pretend that it's something that I'm unfamiliar with or have not used myself. It's still something that there's this ridiculous hypocrisy about.
And I guess what you hope for in putting a company like Pornhub through the ringer of investigation, scrutiny, government censure, regulation is ultimately...
to have owners who say stuff like this. Here's what Solomon Friedman told the National Post. Pornography is sex work. And if you boil it down one step further, it's work, it's labor. At ECP... ethical capital partners, that's the parent company, we fundamentally believe that sex work is work deserving of dignity, legal protection, and all the safeguards that a responsible platform can offer.
Don't confuse my applause for this statement with a naive belief that that's actually what they believe, but I'm glad that that's what they're saying because you need to have a policy to hold them accountable to. And that is an ethical framework for how a provider of pornography should be positioning themselves in our society as a company that understands this work, people.
millions and hundreds of millions of people like this stuff and use this stuff. And so let's try to make it in an ethical way. Wow. What a Valentine's Day duly noted. Duly noted. Happy Valentine's Day, Jen. Happy Valentine's, Jesse. That is our show for today. Thank you for joining me, Jen. Thanks for having me on.
I can be emailed at jesse at canadaland.com. I read everything that our listeners send. And I also post stuff to Blue Sky. Jan Wong, you write books. They make great gifts for Valentine's Day. Which one would you recommend? I would recommend Out of the Blue. It's about my big breakup with The Globe and Mail. There we go. This episode's produced by James Nicholson, mixing and mastering by Caleb Thompson.
Our director of audio is Max Collins. Fact check by Sam Connert. I am Jesse Brown, the editor and publisher of Canada Land. This episode of Canada Land is brought to you by our supporters, Ruth Workington, Ben LaCharity, and Tyson Cadell, and... You, I hope, be my Valentine. Support Canada Land. Buy Canadian. Help us do this thing that we do that you show up for. Help a Canadian business. Go to CanadaLand.com slash join right now.
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