I'm Tony Dean, and today we'll be calling history to speak with William Shakespeare. He'll be answering our call on April 22nd, 1616. Tomorrow, he will die in the most Shakespearean way possible, which is on his 52nd birthday. If you've ever found yourself in a pickle, thank Shakespeare. Because that phrase came from a play called The Tempest. If you've ever suggested to a friend that there might be too much of a good thing, you are quoting Shakespeare from his play as you like it.
If you've ever taken care of things in one fell swoop, started a joke with, knock knock, who's there? Or been fed up with something as you growl and say, what's done is done. All these are quotes from Macbeth. Shakespeare was a master of using words and phrases to transport his audience back in time to experience history or far away mystical lands.
He knew that he was good at it, and he put his heart and soul into it, sacrificing everything, even his family, to make a living while producing plays that would captivate audiences and put butts in seats. Despite living through a time when the plague was always a concern. His great talent rose during the golden age of Queen Elizabeth's reign, a relatively peaceful time where the arts were vigorously supported by the Queen and then the King that followed.
His unmatched talent and ambition were in the right place at the exact right time, and because of that, his words and his stories will forever be an inspiration for writers and actors and entertainment for those wishing to experience storytelling and language at the highest level. Ladies and gentlemen, fellow history lovers, and players everywhere, I give you William Shakespeare. Hello. Is that you, Mr. Shakespeare? hello? Yes. Will Shakespeare here.
Yes, sir. I am so excited to speak with you today. My name is Tony Dean, and I'm talking to you from the future in the 21st century. That device that you're holding in your hand is called a smartphone. And it allows us to speak as if you and I were sitting next to each other in the globe theater. And it also allows me to share a record of our conversation with people around the world.
And sir, I was hoping I could ask you some questions today, but before I do, I understand that this is an odd introduction. Are there any questions that I can answer for you first? The, God's wounds. Well met, Master Dean. brave new world that has such gadgets int. you know, in our time it's, it's interesting that you would say that there are nothing but gadgets in our time. There are so many gadgets you can't even keep track of them. Well, and I think you've inspired me already.
I, I, maybe you know this, maybe this is why you are speaking with me, but I invented many words, and I think I might have, this device might have inspired me to invent the word gadget. Well, if gadget is not a word in your time, then I'm just gonna put that down on your list of words because. That is certainly a good one. What, what is the deal with all of these words?
Anyhow, I was doing some research and looking up words that you created and nobody knows how many words you're responsible for. Some people say that there are 1700 new words. Some people say there are 3000 that you've added. , where does this come from? Are you just laying around and you're like, you know, I need a different way to describe that. How does that work for you? Well, I'm a wordsmith. , it is my life. I live for creating language, creating characters.
And also , You may not know this, but I am a poet, and sometimes a dramatic poet, where I put words into the mouths of characters who appear on stage in stories. And I wrote many, many plays. I had to give them something to say, didn't I? So I had to come up with quite a few words, and some I just played with, because that is one of the joys of what I do, playing with language. Changing a noun into a verb, for instance. Is there an example of that that comes to mind?
Well, it's, it's a prosaic word, a blanket. , it's the piece of material that covers us when we are cold. Well, I used it to describe the sky as, as a verb, how the, , how the sky , blankets us all. It, with that sort of Usage. The good news about not having a university education is that I haven't been ever taught what was right and what was wrong. So I just do it the way I like it. What is your education, by the way?
And, in your time, are , the the playwrights of your time, are they educated people, where you're not? By Well, there's, we all have a basic education when we are children, we learn Latin, we learn Greek, we learn the ancient myths and the great stories and the great historical characters. then it is time for a young man to go off and earn a living. And that's what I had to do in Stratford upon Avon. , greater men of means than I are able to go off to.
Cambridge or Oxford and receive a more expanded and traditional education. But that was not for me. I had to, I had to go to work. And as a relatively young man, I had children that I had to feed. So that was not an opportunity afforded to me. I'm not sure what to call you. Do people call you Mr. Shakespeare? Do they call you William? What do they call you? Well, my friends call me Will. I mean, I know we've just met, but can I call you? Will?
Please may I give you the formal appellation, Antonio? I've created many characters, Antonio, in my plays. Yeah, I would feel better if you called me Antonio. Oh, all right. Very good. That sounds great. So when you were talking about having to go to work right away, I'm a little confused on that in your time, doesn't everybody have to go to work? I mean, I'm sure there are people that were born with all kinds of money, but isn't everybody going to work? Well, absolutely.
Again, except for those gentlemen of means , whose fathers have fortune sufficient enough. To allow them to pursue , a greater education or a life of leisure. There are gentlemen of plenty , in London living off their father's large s, but the, for those of us from Warwickshire and elsewhere in England, we have to go to work. My, my father was many things . my Father was a glove maker, but he dabbled in, in other things. He tasted ale. He was a bailiff in Stratford so a man of some importance.
But his dreams for the Shakespeare family exceeded his abilities. I was his apprentice for several years. I was a glover myself. It's, it's why I use the language of glove making so much in my poems and my plays. You talk about making gloves in your plays a lot. Again, this is me playing with language. I don't talk about glove making as much as I make reference to the materials that I would use. A shovel, for instance, which is a kind of goatskin. That sort of thing. I see.
Okay. That makes more sense. Your father, by the way, what kind of guy was he? Was he a good guy? Silence. Silence. So he had a drinking problem. He was a stern man, but he was a, he was a loving man. And I was proud to be his son. I'm so proud to be in his son. In fact, that Oh, close about 10 years ago, I was able to secure. A coat of arms granted to me by Queen Elizabeth herself, the Shakespeare coat of arms, which is something my father applied for but never received.
But my small reputation as a poet and a dramatic poet was such Okay. in polite society. But, I had achieved a quite a measure of my own success, and I hope it reflected well on my father. Alright, you just said a whole bunch of things I gotta clear up. So the first one is, and this is probably the most important one, and that is, your father being good at tasting the ale, did he pass those skills on to you? Ha ha ha ha ha.
I do love both cakes and ale, like my character Sir Toby Belch in Twelfth Night. Did you say cakes? Cakes and ale, yes. Are those two things you eat together? Of course! ! ! you eat them together, sometimes you eat them separately, but they are delicious and lovely and enjoyable, and the very things that the Puritans, like my character Malvolio in Night, Wish that we would eliminate. Oh, the Puritans want to get rid of the cake and ale. Yes, are your feelings on the Puritans?
. Well, . My feelings for the Puritans officially are complicated. Unofficially, personally, I loathe them. them because they are against everything that I stand for. I celebrate life in all its complexity. I celebrate language and I celebrate the art of play acting as a way of revealing truth. By pretending. To be someone other than you're not.
The Puritans think that play acting is a form of lying, but I disagree wholly Even if you were doing exactly what the Puritans wanted you to do, they wouldn't be happy though. Oh, the Puritans want to shut down the playhouses completely. , so, I would not be allowed to do what I do. between the Protestants and the Catholics. And you always had to be very, very careful about you observed your own relationship to your God, depending who was sitting on the throne.
You could be persecuted and even locked up. And sometimes burned at the stake for practicing your religion. So we had to be very careful. I was very lucky that I was able to navigate those worrisome straights sometimes better than my fellow playwrights. I want to go back for a minute to the coat of arms. I didn't realize this was not something that, that anybody could do. And your father was obviously trying to get this. Was he denied?
And then once your work became popular, all of a sudden you were able to do that? Is that how it works? , yes, I do think it was my popularity, but a coat, a coat of arms reflects a family's prestige and longevity here in this country. I came by a certain legitimacy through my mother, Mary Arden, who is a descendant of the great Arden family, whose ancestors were mentioned in the Doomsday Book 600 years ago, in the time of William the Conqueror.
And indeed, the Forest of Arden, which I memorialized in my play, As You Like It, is Named after my mother's family. So I had a legitimacy through my mother my father did not have. I also had a certain amount of fame and respectability due to my poetry and my plays. What is the doomsday book? This does not sound like a, comforting story to read. Well, I'm surprised, Master Antonio, you are familiar with me, but not the Domesday book.
The Domesday book is spelled Domesday, D O M E S, but pronounced Doomsday. It's a, it's a sort of a census. It's a record of all of the landholders and resources during the time of William It's a record of all of the landholders and resources, during the time of William the Conqueror. Well, some 600 years ago it was a great record, but it also establishes, which Englishmen were already here when William came over from France.
So this is just simply a record of people that had passed through that land. Well, it's a record of the people who were already here. I think William, the conqueror wanted to know. How much he had actually conquered. . Okay. So let's go back to you would use the word players a little bit ago you referred to yourself, I think, as a player. I don't know what a player is. Well, a player is an actor. Obviously an actor who struts and frets his hour upon the stage.
An actor who plays roles we're called players. And I began as a player. I'm a, well, I'm a man of the theater. In every way. I've, I've probably done every job there is in the theater. It's why I'm able to create the plays that I create, because , I know how plays should be acted. I know what fun it is to say these lines, to, to have these rich words forming in my mouth and putting them out on a stage for an audience of people. Okay. So a player and actor, those two words are interchangeable.
Yes. I see. Okay. So , your plays in our time, they are taught in schools. I mean, Yes. Oh, yeah. I mean, in your time when somebody talks about doing a play by William Shakespeare, they're talking about doing something at the highest level , of the English language. Now you have me afraid that my plays are as ancient and loathed by students as I loath the Latin I had to learn in my school. Please tell me that's not so. That is definitely not the case.
Oh. I promise you that people enjoy your work much more than you or anybody enjoys learning Latin. . When I think of your plays, it seems like you handle some very complex issues like love, jealousy, and power, and lust, , and death, and, and then of course there's all of the, the mystical stuff, you know, witches and, and things like that. . I'm wondering where some of that comes from.
And I'm wondering if that has all of that has something to do with the fact that you are in the middle or were in the middle of the plague. Are you, are you guys dealing with the plague right now? What does that look like in your time? Well, the plague has been a constant presence in my life. I was born in 1564, a year in which plague swept across and in fact killed a large percentage of the in my hometown of Stratford upon Avon.
it then returned and returned throughout my entire professional career, starting, suppose, from the late 1580s to the present day of 1616. I was always writing. either during a plague, in the wake of one plague, or in fearful anticipation of the next, and it's one thing to write the words down on a page. I can do that , whether I'm in London or I'm in Stratford. , for a dramatic poet and a player, these words mean nothing until they are spoken by players on a stage in front of people.
And because of the plague, the playhouses were forced to close. So, was not just an inestimable financial loss when I was not able to put plays on in front of people, but a great loss to my soul because I don't want my words to be read. I want them to be spoken aloud on a stage where the audience can receive them and take their own meaning away from them. . From my understanding, there's no original work that has survived into our time of yours. And was that intentional?
Are you intentionally not writing things down with the intention of publishing them because they're meant to be spoken, not read? Well, I did write them all down and many of them were transcribed into different versions, but would never publish something as inconsequential as a play in book form. , we have small quartos of various and sundry of my plays.
But for instance, just this year, my, my colleague and sometime rival Ben Johnson , is producing a folio of all his plays in one grand volume of folio. is that sort of grandiosity fit for a play? I don't think so. No that said, I do wish that I could. Turn to , my shelves, my own shelves here in Stratford and pull down a copy of one of my plays. But I can't because many of them, unfortunately, were lost in a fire. My handwritten versions of these plays were lost when the globe burnt down.
Oh, some three odd years ago. It was an inestimable loss. So I'm, I'm glad that. Some of my plays, at least, have survived into your time. Oh, most definitely, and it was because others use. Either copy down your work. I guess I'm not sure about that. They copied down your work or they collected it and then did put it into what you would call a folio into book form, but nothing original with your hand on it.
if some of my plays have survived in published form, I'm almost positive it would be through the good efforts of my colleagues John Hemmings and Henry Konzel. I have left them a small token in my will that, I hope encourages them to keep my memory alive, however they are able. And it sounds to me from what you are saying is if they managed to accomplish what I'm hoping they will do. . Well, maybe that is where it came from then. Oh fantastic. I'm so glad to hear that.
You just brought up your will, and in your will, it is well known in our time that you had left your wife your second best bed. Well, of What is all of that about? Well, first of all, you know my, the contents of my will? Of course, yes! I mean, again, in our time, you're as famous as anybody. , so yes, we know the contents of your will. And everybody is wondering, why not give her the first best bed? Well, the first best bed is reserved for guests. Obviously, everybody knows that.
, the second best bed is our marital Oh! course I'm going to leave. I can't believe there's confusion about this. Of course I'm going to leave my second best bed to Anne. She knows, she's in the next, Anne! Anne, you, You know that the second best bed is our marital bed! That's the one you want, right? Yes, yes, she's saying right. I hope you can, I hope you can hear her. She's So she, Thank you, darling.
So she knows that the second best bet that when she reads that in your will, she's not going to take that as a slight. She's going to say, well, of course he'd give me our marriage bed. And we want to leave our first bed to our daughter Susanna and her husband John. Oh, I we give to them as part of the rest of Our goods and chattels. , there's a lot of people that are going to be really glad to hear this because , people think that you maybe didn't even.
You and your wife didn't get along very well, because this was the last and final slight. Oh, I loved Anne, and I like to think she loved me. Right? You love Okay, yes, she's nodding. But! We're gonna have to bring her in the room. Oh! Then I won't be able to get a word in edgewise. Yeah, what is Anne like, by the way? Your wife is Anne Hathaway, correct? Okay. from Anne, away from Stratford, away from my children. is time I regret.
It's the loss of company , of my children and my wife, I regret. But there was no living to be made as a poet or a playwright in Stratford. I had to go where the opportunities were, in London. So Ann and I love each other deeply, but that's not to say , there weren't difficulties along the way. . I'm listening carefully to your tone and trying to read between the lines here.
And when you're saying complicated, I am hearing that there are maybe other relationships you had outside of your marriage that we're whispering about. Is that what you're saying? , I'm not proud of it, but yes, I was particularly in my early days in London. I was in my late teens and my early twenties when I first went to London, I was a new father. And was and remains several years older than I, and I, was involved. What can I tell you? I'm a player.
I , I moved around the theater community and I had to navigate amongst various patrons, people, lords, and ladies who wanted. Attention, dare I say affection, from me. It was a complicated time, I have no regrets, but are some things I might have chosen to do differently. That sounds very Shakespearean. I have no regrets, but there are some things that I would have done differently.
I'm a man of nuance, So did Anne find, , or perhaps needle threading, okay, so did Anne find out about any of these we'll call them indiscretions, and did that, is that where the complications came from? almost assuredly. I'd have to hand this gadget over to her, and you'd have to talk to her. Completely. But don't bring it up. . The older one gets, the more perspective one gains. , I'm an old man of 51 now. In fact, my birthday is tomorrow, April 23rd, 1616. And I you've probably heard me.
sneezing during this conversation. I have a small fever from, which I'm sure I will recover. It would be a dramatic irony worthy of well worthy of me if this fever were to kill me on my birthday tomorrow on my 52nd birthday. Well, I'm sure that won't happen. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. in The Tempest. Pericles who loses his, his daughter and gains her at the end.
, Leontes in the Winter's Tale, who honestly, I'm surprised any audiences ever forgive him for the things that he's done, even King Lear. For instance, comes to regret , the folly of his actions. He was trying to do something good, but it led to not only the disillusion of his family, but the disillusion of his entire kingdom. Well, let's go back to the Winter's Tale. What is the thing that was done in Winter's Tale? I'm not familiar with this story. Well, does one start with Leontes?
He is consumed by a powerful jealousy. He's convinced that his wife Hermione , is having an affair with his best friend Polixenes. And so I send Polixenes off, , and I put my wife on trial for adultery. She has a daughter in prison, and I move to have the daughter killed. Also, our other son, Mamilius, dies. Then, my wife Goes off and disappears and is turned into a statue , but 17 years later, she miraculously recovers and Leontes sees the error of his ways.
Honestly, I'm amazed I got away with that. Well, and this is dark, no question about that, that is a lot, but that brings me to a very specific play that I have to ask you about, and that is Titus Andronicus. So , I think I'm saying that right. Yes, you are. Well done. Okay, thank you. My understanding is, is that in this play that there is a scene where the, the main character brings his enemies in and then feeds them a pie made of their children.
How's that not worse than what you just described? Well, you've got to give the audience what they want the audience comes to a play like Titus Andronicus, expecting great revenge. it's no secret that I, I borrowed the plots of Thomas Kidd's Spanish tragedy for so many of my plays, but Titus Andronicus was an early play of mine that was capitalizing on their audience's fondness for this sort of gory violence.
You forget that . The biggest competition our plays have for the audience's attention and money bear baiting pits almost right next door here on the South Banks of London. A bear baiting pit is, I, maybe you don't know because hopefully it's a sport that's been banished in your I have no idea what bear bathing is. Yeah, please tell me. What is it? Silence. it. And the people in the audience would scream in favor of either the bear or the dogs.
And they would lay down wagers on the bear or the dogs. And they had a financial interest in the outcome, really all they wanted to see was the carnage of animals tearing each other apart. This is what I'm competing with. So when Okay. So they're getting the thing they want, but they are forced to confront their desire for it. . So they really put bears and stake a bear in, this sounds like the Colosseum in ancient Rome.
They just put bears in there and then they fight to the death and everybody's cheering . Do they do this with people? , do they have gladiators in your time? No, they don't have gladiators as in ancient Rome, but , we do have public executions where our traitors are beheaded , and the worst of them , are drawn and quartered.
So , they are hung and before the hanging actually kills them completely, they are dragged down, cut open, disemboweled, and then , their limbs are tied to four horses who gallop off in four different directions, literally pulling the body apart. This is a huge public spectacle and a great warning to would be traitors.
But occasionally they would do this to people who were not treasonous to the country or the queen or the king, just merely misguided or had the bad fortune of falling on the bad side of somebody in power. So people are standing around and they're cheering as these people are being drug across the ground disemboweled. People are cheering and excited about this. Do they bring their kids? Do they, do they dress up for it? Oh, they do? They do. Some people enjoy it more than others.
, many folks are compelled to be there to witness this. , on the one hand, it's part of a civic duty be there, but there are people for whom this is what you might call entertainment. What a time , my understanding is, is that during your time, , they call this time the Elizabethan era, because, , she was alive for almost your entire life. . And some people call this the golden age. And but . There's so much death between the plague and public executions.
And it seems like there's a lot of good, but there's a whole lot of bad. I mean, there's just so much bad that. You know, people are seeing the dark side of life. And so that creates the need for this this competition you have against that in your plays to create something that is so horrific that it just draws their attention because there's death everywhere is, is that how it works? Well, are you telling me that all violence and carnage has been erased from your time?
It sounds like a utopia, Yeah, that's a, that's a good point. , if the Elizabethan era was a golden age, it is because Elizabeth Godrestrassel , she was a great patron of the arts. she, her players to come and perform for her at Whitehall. , and we were proud to do it. Patronage from the Queen, and then of course later from King James, essential to our livelihood and reputations. And it's why I was.
able to make the living I was able to make and why I was able to achieve such respectability that I was granted a coat of arms. patrons, clear that up for me. , did she pay your salary? Did , the people coming to see the plays pay your salary? How does that work? , I earned my living from commissions for people will ask me to write a sonnet for instance. But mostly , I earn my.
Money from being a shareholder in the Globe Theater as well as the Lord Chamberlain's men as was in the days of Queen Elizabeth. And now the king's men of player, perhaps you don't know this, but players are seen to be little better than prostitutes and could be arrested for vagrants. , if they could not prove that they were under the largesse and patronage of a nobleman. so my original company was the Lord Chamberlain's men, because we were under the patronage of the, of the Lord Chamberlain.
And then when King James acceded to the throne, he assumed our patronage. And thus we changed our name to the Kingsmen. Although between you and me, , I think we missed an opportunity. , we could, and should have called ourselves the James gang, which I think has a nicer ring to it. Don't you I think that would have stuck. It's too bad that that opportunity was missed. That would have been fantastic. So since King James has taken over?
Has there been a big transition or is it business as usual for you? afternoon. I spoke earlier of my ability to navigate the political winds. And, and things were delicate when King James came to the throne, they were delicate in different ways. When Elizabeth was on the throne, because , she never had an air. So there was a question about who would. Assume the throne upon her death. There was a lot of tension in the country about that.
I wrote various plays describing that kind of tension, but I would set them safely in the past. So that's how I got around talking about to the graduating class the Class of to the Class of 2021! to Okay. very order of succession. Who is a good guy in the play, and not my lead titular villain. The other thing I, I was thrilled to be able to include in Macbeth is witches. King James loves witches. He wrote a book about them, in fact.
So , if I may be allowed to pat myself on the back, very smart of me to write a play involving witches for King James. I did not realize this. So you are in this constant state between when Elizabeth is Queen and King James is King. You're in this constant state of writing something that first of all gets the audience interested and excited and pushes the boundaries of what they think is possible, maybe.
And at the same time, you're trying not to offend the politicians and even maybe pat them on the back or give them something that they're comfortable with or that they can relate to. I want something that the audiences will love because I only make my money when enough audiences come to see my plays , the expression we use is, I don't know whether that this expression has been, has come down to you, but, but I only make my money . When we put butts in seats.
So I need to make sure that the plays are popular to the audience and not offend the monarch. I hope the monarch enjoys it as well, but really I want to be careful that it doesn't. Anger, the Monarch or some of the monarch's supporters. So for instance, the later years of Queen Elizabeth's reign, I wrote several plays . I wrote Julius Caesar, when I wrote Henry for instance, just a few years before Queen Elizabeth died, I included a lengthy speech about Salic law.
in all honesty, it stops the play cold, but it outlines the clear legal reasons for why a king should be able to invade France. It, it both Silence. way that I hoped I would get away with and it seems that I did. Was there ever a time where one of the kings or queens or anybody, a political figure asked you to write something to influence the masses so that they could do something? Okay. which was a, a young writer's. And I soon got out of it.
a scene in Richard II where Richard II reluctantly gives up his crown in favor of Henry Bollenbrook, who later becomes King Henry IV. It became known as the deposition scene and Richard, the second was a very unpopular King and Henry Bolingbroke was a very popular Lord who had a distant claim on the crown. I wrote it again so long ago, but it was repurposed five or so years ago. By the followers of the Earl very, very hot water. Many of us were questioned, but it Silence. We were very lucky.
the politicians the, the monarchs, they should just give you your money and let you perform your work and stay out of it, because when they get involved, things get messy, don't they? Well, they do. Yes. No, let the artists do the art well, of artists, you had said a minute ago, and I feel you just kind of passed right by this, but, you had said that And this is really confusing me that players are seen at the level of prostitutes or just above that. How's that the case?
I thought that the Queen loved you and the King loved you and they're your patrons. How are they seeing you like prostitutes? Unless prostitutes are their favorite. to make a point. We are a disreputable bunch. We, we are are, are forced to look for work. Many of us have other jobs, though what we crave is the opportunity. perform and create. We don't have the kind of steady work that be tokens and solidity.
We're seen as suspect and, and we provide an entertainment, which while looked down upon by many is still embraced by many. It is one of the wonders of the playhouse that Many different people from all levels of society come and gather as one to form an audience in a playhouse. It is one of the great levelers of our society. And again, that's one of the reasons I think that people are so threatened by it. , politicians, noblemen.
Many people want to keep the classes separate and keep us fighting against each other, lest we realize that our real enemies are the people above us, putting their thumb down upon us. Are there censors in your time? Are there people that are watching what you're writing and ? You have to be very careful that you're, you're not offending somebody, but at the same time, you know, there's the bear baiting and all that, it seems like you can write all kinds of stuff. What does that look like?
What does the censorship looking like in your time? Well, we have to submit, , , the Chamberlain's men, the King's men, have to submit every play that we want to perform to the Master of the Revels. The Master of the Revels works for the King, or the Queen, and is the one who determines whether a play is appropriate to be put on before the public. So, I suppose, In my case, I know what I can get away with and what I can't get away with.
So . I am able to get my plays approved by the Master of the Revels because, because ., I know what Master Tilney will approve and what he won't. And are there times where you would press the boundaries of what you thought you could get away with and something would get through and you'd be surprised? I would. I wrote a what you might call a sequel to Love's Labour's Lost called Love's Labour's One. Very clever of me, I thought.
Yes. but it did, it did speak of royalty, even though it was French royalty. I think it , spoke about royalty in rather too freewheeling a way, and that was, that was not approved, not allowed. I was able to take the best bits from it and repurpose it into a play called Much Ado About Nothing. So I I learned my lesson Do you have a favorite play? , in our time, , people are in love with Romeo and Juliet and A Midsummer Night's Dream. Those are Do you have a favorite?
I credit the people in your time for recognizing quality. Do you have a favorite? Cymbeline? I suppose, I suppose, speaking of my children, one of my favorites would have to be Hamlet. Which was written very soon after the loss of my own son, Hamnet, Hamnet, with an N. But I was thinking, I was thinking of the relationship between a father and son when I wrote Hamlet, for instance, which, which dwells on a son's obligation to his father even . After the father has died.
But, If I were forced to choose, I would have to say my favorite play, And I'm sure this is the most popular play in your time, The favorite of all my plays is Cymbeline. You've read that one, surely. Yes, do you not know it? I know, I know so many of them, but please tell me about Cymbeline. I'm going to try to get my screen back. Um, uh, I'm not sure if I can see it. I'm going to try my screen Um, I am not sure if my screen is back.
Uh, So uh, So Who creeps into Imogen's bedroom and spies her as she's sleeping, looks upon her naked body and recognizing a mole beneath her breast and it's got, it's got another dead body on stage where the character's literally talking to it, thinking it's asleep, and the final scene of Cymbeline is one of the funniest comedies I've ever written, where revelation is piled upon revelation upon revelation.
It's just an unending and the show runs so much longer because of all the audience laughing. I'll bet you the Puritans were lined up in the front row for that show. Oh, well, yes, was it. , I believe the Master of the Revels delighted in it, but I, I feel certain that he had as little regard for the Puritans as I did. I'm amazed at how much passes through the Master of the Revels. I'm just, I'm trying to figure out what they wouldn't let through.
What would be something that they'd say, yeah, no, that, we can't do that. I mean, we can have bears and dogs and we can have people looking at naked people sleeping. I'm just saying we can. Kill our children. We can do everything. But we can't do, what? Well, we can't have actual women on stage. That's one thing we cannot do. , it's just not done. Women can act and read plays private homes, , but we can't have them on stage.
So , all of my great female characters, strong independent women are all played by boys. No women, that's the line that they draw. Well, that's So you can kill, several lines that they draw. One could not write a play about assassinating a king. For instance, I was able to write a play about assassinating Julius Caesar, but that was, Set safely in the past, and it was a play about the folly of assassination. So it was a warning to would be assassins.
That's one way in which that play got approved. oh, see, I, I think this sounds to me catering to the monarchs a little bit. Because if the monarchs were watching that, they would say, oh, you see? Don't even think about assassinating me because this is how things will turn out. And it destroys Rome, if you'll remember. So there are, it's not a thing one wants So I guess a lot of your stories are based on something that has already happened.
I mean, you're talking Henry the sixth and , you were talking about King Richard and Julius Caesar, of course. Help. , are you just repurposing old stories and just applying them to something that's happening in modern times? Is that what you're doing with a lot of your stories? Constantly. I am constantly repurposing stories. I wrote so many plays, I had to grab plot lines and characters from wherever I could.
Also, , I wanted the audience to be, at least in some aspect, familiar with the stories I was telling. That's why , I wanted to write so much about the great English kings. Not, not only were they worthy subject matter, but they were. But also they were very, very popular. mentioned my Henry the Sixth plays. , the play so nice. I wrote it thrice. There are three parts to Henry the Sixth, which is one of the things I discovered. It was one of my very early works.
The first play that I wrote about Henry VI turned out to be the second play I would create , within the three plays of Henry VI. They became so popular. I was motivated by money. I confess it. I was motivated to write more plays about Henry VI. And they were so popular that I made quite a bit of money they made , not only my fortune, but my reputation. Let me ask you about your fortune for a minute.
There's something that confuses me about how good you are at making money because, I mean, would you say that you are savvy at business? Oh, absolutely. Very savvy. Very savvy. The art of making plays is making a living at making plays. And that's what I was able to accomplish. . It's no wonder people doubt if Shakespeare wrote his own plays. I mean, actors are known for being terrible at business. That's why they all have agents or make no money at all.
That's why the term starving actor exists But Shakespeare was good at both in the next episode We're gonna talk about how he accidentally burned down the Globe Theatre He's going to tell us what he was doing between 1585 and 1592 during what they call Shakespeare's lost years and he's going to talk about spying for the queen, his relationships with men, and on and on and on. I'm glad that you're enjoying this podcast.
And if you haven't yet, subscribe now, and we'll see you at the next episode of the Calling History Podcast with part two of William Shakespeare.