Welcome back to part two of George Custer. In the last episode, we talked about Custer graduating last in his class at West Point and being promoted to general at a very young age of 23. On a side note, I was curious if he was the youngest general ever. ever in the U. S., and I was surprised that this is not the case. The youngest general was a man named Galusha Pennypacker. When I looked that up, I felt like I was being punked, but it does appear to be a fact.
In the next episode, he's going to try to explain why he was not kicked out of West Point even after receiving eight times the amount of demerits that would normally cause a person to be dismissed. He's going to talk about the Battle of Washita or the massacre at Washita, depending on which side you're on. And he's going to answer the question about why he had a big, fancy red scarf tied around his neck instead of the standard military outfit.
Well, then it became more accurate and each wound inflicted by the rifled 58 caliber Springfield devastated the enemy. The person that got hit because chances are it shattered the bone and they'd have to lose a limb in the process. If they weren't killed outright, then it would take two men that would have to remove them from the field.
So you could effectively remove three people from a line a skirmish line and that person probably wouldn't return to the front because of the wounds that they suffered. If they didn't die outright during the procedure to remove their arm or leg, they would probably just return to civilian life and try to make do as best they can. Gosh, that sounds awful.
Do you think that you and Grant, as far as leaders of men during the time of the Civil War, if you and Grant had been in the South, would the South have won? Well, I don't put that much on myself. I think that Grant was a great general, and he's my commander in chief, so I'm not going to say anything negative, but I will tell you that he had a different way of fighting that most people hadn't verged on when he came into the forefront. He was a no nonsense commander.
And we needed somebody like him at that time in the war. But isn't, isn't that how you fought as well? Maybe I'm drawing similarities that don't exist, but it seems to me that Grant was not lacking in courage and would run right to the front if necessary, , until he , eventually took complete control of the whole army. But it seemed like you were doing the same thing, maybe even more so. Am I wrong on that?
Well, I'd like to think so, but I would have to tell you that even as my capacity as a brigadier general, I still had to take orders. So I couldn't make a decision on my own. I had to go through chain of command and I was a junior. at the time. I wasn't one of the high ranking officers, so what was to my advantage, to a large degree, is the men who were a command above me, who would place me in the proper place at the right time, and that's how I was successful.
As far as taking orders go, and I'm going to push back at this a little bit with respect, but we go back to you being young and you're at West Point and you end up with these seven or 800 demerits, which seems like it's probably a record to this day. And so it looks like, , at a very young age, there were times where a lot of times where you kind of did what you wanted to and push back against authority. But even when you get into the position of leading in these battles.
Aren't you also pushing back at authority? Weren't you not court martialed a couple times? Wasn't there one time where you were AWOL and you went to spend time with your wife? So, do you take, you take orders, but it all, you kinda do what you wanna do if you think it's right sometimes too, is that not correct?
Well, I, you know, I, I can't really address the court martial thing of the Civil War because it was prior to the Civil War when I was brought up before court martial at West Point because there were a couple of plebes, they're the new entries into the academy that were at Beast Barracks, that's when we put up the Tents on the parade ground on the plane.
And they were fighting over a water pump and I was officer of the guard and I happened upon them and instead of separating them, I told the other plebs to stand back. Let's have a fair fight. And lieutenants Hazen and Merrill arrested me and had me brought before a court marshal.
And if it hadn't been for commandant of cadets general Reynolds, I would have been expelled from the academy and probably would have ended my military career, but they needed officers to go to the front for the first stages of the war. That court marshal was probably exceeding. My duties as officer of the guard. And it was just by Custer's luck that I was able to get off from that.
My second court martial occurred when I was on the frontier and yes, I did leave, but I had permission to go see my wife and there were trumped up charges because of the failure of Hancock's expedition against the Sioux in the Southern Cheyenne that I was made the scapegoat and I received. A year suspension of rank and pay, but I only had to serve 10 months of it because of the winter campaign that I was called back to be a part of by General Sheridan.
So those were the only two times that I ever was brought before a court martial. And so, you know, as far as other times that I was accused of not following orders. uh, technicality was that general Kilpatrick had ordered me to little round top and devil's den, and I got stopped midway by a commander who asked for my cooperation and help, and because it didn't go bad, I was able to help him thwart Stuart's attempt to turn the right flank of the Union Army.
I didn't receive a court martial, but I could have for not following through on those orders from General Kilpatrick. So I guess I would tell you that, In my mind, I always justify what I'm doing like anybody that I'm doing it for the good and hopefully I'm following through on orders. I don't necessarily decide that I'm going to disobey an order. Generally speaking, you would say that you were a person who followed orders , unless it was a case where it was absolutely wrong.
Is that, would you agree with that? I always followed orders as best I could, yes. What is his deal about Custer's luck? Okay, so I've heard about Custer's luck and you just said it. Are you just lucky or are you good or what is Custer's luck? I don't, I don't know how to describe it other than being at the right place at the right time and it just seems as though sometimes I have to nudge that luck a little bit but most cases things have kind of fallen my way.
And even falling into bad graces for a time, I seem to always rise to the top, somehow, someway maybe the gods of war are looking out for me. they knew that I was somebody would be committed and I would follow through that if I said I was going to do something, I would kill myself attempting to do it. . General Sheridan said I'm the only man who never failed him. Did you have a relationship with Grant?
Yes. In fact General Grant and I, with my wife, Elizabeth, rode to Washington in May of 64 when he took command of the Army of the Potomac. Actually, overall command of the Union Army. And we rode on the same train together. And I was with him in Appomattox he was riding with the Army of Potomac after his promotion to four star general. you were with Grant at the surrender at Appomattox Courthouse? Yes, yes. And you're saying your wife was there as well?
No, she was on the train when we went to Washington in May of 64 when he took command, when he took overall command. you were at Appomattox Courthouse. How many people were there when Lee surrendered? Was it a big group or a small group? Well, most of the officers on , General Meade and General Grant's staff were in the room. I stuck my head into the room for only a brief moment.
And General Sheridan nodded to me and then I left, it was in the Wilbur McLean house where the surrender terms were signed. I left the house and went out on the porch and I saw my old cavalry instructor from West Point who hollered at me from the yard. That was Fitzhugh Lee, the nephew of Robert E. Lee.
And we began wrestling and ended up on the ground and then when Robert E. Lee walked out, he saw us rolling around in the yard and he kind of gave a stern look to his nephew and pulled on his gauntlets and instructed Sergeant Tucker to bring Traveler, his gray horse, over. And then he climbed on the horse and nodded to me. And I nodded to my nephew. bandmaster, Major Axel, Charles Axel. And he began playing Dixie as he wrote out of Appomattox courthouse.
And the rest of the union officers came out on the porch and tip their hats to him. uh, involvement was that I was about to make the last charge of the war when I was halted by An orderly, bugler orderly from General Sheridan's staff told me to meet up with him at the Wilbur McLean house. So, I just received the flag of truce from a Major Sims Confederate officer. Brought it across the lines. He had it on a sword. It was a crash towel that he had purchased a week or two before in Richmond.
And it was white, so he had brought that across and said that Robert E. Lee was meeting with General Grant at the Wolverine Clean House. So, we wrote off to join up with him. And the table that General Grant wrote out the terms of the surrender was an oval pine table. Stain pine table that General Sheridan purchased from Wilbur McLean for 25. It was a gold piece he'd kept in his boot in case he had gotten captured. He could buy his way out or, you know, whatever contraband he needed.
He bought the table and presented it to my wife, who he had only, she was the only woman that he allowed to ride with the army of the Potomac towards the end of the war and said, permit me to say, madam, there's scarcely an individual who has contributed more than your gallant husband. And so I took that back home with me when, when the war ended. , so you. Do you and your wife have that surrender table? You, you own that?
Yes. Yes. Wow. I mean, that's, are there, I mean, that is quite a collectible to have. Are there other things throughout these wars that you've collected like this? Things that are valuable to you? Numerous, numerous small items, but that's probably our pride is that surrender table. It's back in Monroe, Michigan, at the home of my wife.
My parents live there now, but it was the home that my wife was born in, and Judge Bacon, who passed away in May of 66, ten years ago, he had that table in the house and would allow people to come in and see it on occasion. It was a showcase item. You may want to hold on to that for future generations, because if you pass that through generations, that's going to be worth a lot of money someday. Maybe you could put every generation that comes after you through college
. I don't think it's something that we would probably sell. It's a family heirloom now. Yeah, yeah. No, that makes sense. So what about this this battle at Wasaw? There's a lot of good and bad press about this battle at Ouachita, where there's rumors that there were a lot of, , Indians that you slaughtered. And, what, what can you tell me about this? Well, first of all the Indians that had left the reservations in the year prior to that, most of 68, had murdered over 150 some settlers.
24 children and 4 women were captured and taken. The bands had captured numerous livestock and horses , to the point that There was an outcry that they needed to do something about the raids that were taking place. Most of these were led by the Dog Soldiers, which were a unit of the Southern Cheyenne. That , they had captured up to some cases, 53 women and children, 800 to 1, 100 horses. And so they were keen on punishing the Indians.
And as the time went on, The weather started getting bad, and it was decided that there would be a winter campaign mounted. And most of the old scouts and mountain men, men like Kit Carson, , they discouraged pursuing Indians in the, in the hostile weather, winter. And General Sheridan felt like if he could call me back from my disciplinary leave, that I could head up the 7th Cavalry. And about that time, the 7th Cavalry was coming into its own as being an elite unit on the frontier.
And so we mounted the 7th Cavalry and left out of Fort Supply in Oklahoma territory around November, the end of November 22nd, and pursued the trail that led us into the Valley of the Ouachita, just below the Canadian River. And it was the village of Chief Black Kettle. The Indians who had been raiding had taken sanctuary in his village, and we did a dawn attack, which resulted in the death of 103 warriors. We captured 875 ponies that we were able to destroy.
the Indian brobes and gunpowder was also destroyed. We put up the village. We put two flames captured 53 women and children. And 103 warriors were put to death. We lost three officers and 19 enlisted men, but we were able to cripple the Southern Cheyenne and subsequently bring in the rest of the Southern Cheyenne tribes, the Apache, Kiowa, Comanche, and Arapaho.
We were able to return to the reservation and a lot of people who would talk about this battle as a, a massacre of women and children, had not ever encountered that kind of warfare on the Southern Plains, and it was such that it was easy to criticize us, but it wasn't for the number of Indian lives that were lost, but those that I was able to spare, that I became known as the foremost Indian fighter on the frontier, because I effectively Brought an end to the
Southern Plains Wars when all the Indians returned to their reservations by spring. Oh, so once that battle was complete, was that the end of the fighting for a while? For the most part, yes. Mm hmm. They stayed on the reservations. We used the 53 women and children that we captured as leverage.
And I Went to some of the village alone and met with some of the Southern Cheyenne under the leadership of Stone Forehead in the Lodge of the Medicine Arrow Keeper and was able to secure the release of Annabelle Morgan and Sarah White who had been held captive for about six months captured along the Kansas border. is it your strategy in war to make it so violent and, and just so unforgettable to be, , as aggressive as you can possibly be as a deterrent?
Well, we are the last of diplomacy to be used, hopefully. The diplomats can come to peaceful before we're used as a blunt instrument, but when we do let slip the dogs of war we go in, and that's our job. It's not a likable job, but it's a job that we're glad to do. As the military, we're doing what we've been trained to do, and yet, if I can make diplomatic inroads, I usually try to do that prior to a battle. For Just to spare the lives of the men who are serving under me.
It seems like this battle, this, that, this Ouachita battle should be called the, the Battle of the Ponies. I, I don't understand why put down 800 plus horses? It was too difficult to try to herd them, and I didn't want the Indians to, to get access to the horses, so we used all of the extra horses to replace those mounts that we lost, and to make sure that the prisoners had. And then whatever the excess was, since we couldn't hurt them effectively, we had to destroy them.
It was not something I looked forward to, but it was the only logical decision that we could make. Makes sense, because if you leave them, you're leaving a problem for yourself, because they're going to jump right back on them and they'll be right on your tail. Right. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Something you hate to do, but if that's not done, then you and your people, then the problem doesn't end.
General Sheridan had along with General Sherman, decided that we were to make pulpers of the Cheyenne, and that was the only way that we could get them to come back to the reservations. And so, without their homes, Without their horses, they were forced to return the reservation This is going to be a little touchy question here right now and so you got to forgive me if this is insulting because that's not my intention.
Sir, you have shown nothing but courage and without people like you, the country that I enjoy, it probably wouldn't even be here. So just understand, but it is a tough question to ask. There are lots of rumors that You and maybe even the soldiers abused those women that were captured. Is there any truth to that? It was never my knowledge that there was any abuse. Prisoners of wars are treated according to the Geneva Convention that was in Geneva in 57.
So we have rules of war that we must follow. And I never heard of any abuse. But one of the things that You do find with prisoners is they're going to attempt to escape and sometimes stronger discipline is used in order to try to. But once we got back to camp supply, they were turned over and they ended up in stockade at Fort Hayes until they were eventually released after the rest of the tribe came to the reservation. I'm not sure that there was any abuse that took place.
Maybe they felt they didn't get enough food, but we were pretty much on third rations by the time we return to camp supply just because of the weather conditions and, , what we lost, you know, in battle. They, they captured much of our haversacks and great coats. So we were in need of their buffalo robes for warmth. And there was probably some suffering because of the frigid weather, but I don't know of any abuse that I can account for. Let me ask question about this battle.
, if you look at , the way that the Americans are treating the Indians. I mean, we make a treaty with them and then we break it because we, you know, we want something that they have. And then the Indians, as you said, come back and slaughter a certain number of our men. I mean, don't you think you'd do the exact same thing if somebody was encroaching on your land? , wouldn't nearly every American react the same way if somebody was trying to take what was theirs?
I mean, why are we surprised that they would fight back? Because we would do the same thing. Well, I, I think the way I, I look at it through my prism is the government met with the tribes when the purchase of Louisiana Territory. It opened the West and to get access and across that land, treaties were made to provided annuities and different things to satisfy the tribes. And they were supposed to have free passage through , that land.
During the free passage through the land, the Indians, by matter of coming of age, this was their way, their culture. They would horses, women, and other things from the settlers crossing the land. And then, because of the misunderstanding about that, there would be reprisals. And that would escalate until there would be a conflict between different tribes and the settlers moving across that land that they were supposed to have free passage, according to the treaties.
People said that the white man broke the treaties. But probably there was times when situations were taken into their own hands and white men. Seek out reprisals against the Indians and it escalated. And new treaties had to be drawn, and so that, that created the problems, but it was not in all cases that each group that crossed the frontier was attacked.
The Indians avoided the white man as much as they could, and it was only small groups that went into an area that probably was held by gangs that would attack. And then it would be escalated to a force where the military would be called in. And those misunderstandings went into a war. Lieutenant Gratton fired on an Indian encampment over the dispute of a cow that had been wandering away from a wagon train and was killed and eaten by the Indians.
And when the owner demanded the return of the cow, He couldn't be returned because he was already dead and eaten. And so, Lieutenant Grattan, in a high strung way, most of the problems with the Lakota people when he attacked the village. How many battles start with something that was not initially intended? I mean, you're talking about Gettysburg, and you're saying that started because of shoes. And now we're talking this next battle starts because of a cow.
How many people have to die because somebody needs shoesers, or somebody took a cow? Misunderstandings, the human nature, and especially if you have two different cultures, and it sort of escalates. I often think that if I were Indian, I would greatly prefer to cast my lot amongst my people. Those who would adhere to the free open plains rather than submit to the confines of a reservation. There to be the recipient of those blessed benefits thrown in without stint or measure.
Hmm. Yeah. So, tell me about this red scarf that you wear. Why don't you just put a big red X across your chest when you're running into the battle? It just seems like that is drawing far too much attention to you. Well, one of the things that I had as a handicap was being such a young age. When I appeared on the scene, some of my junior officers an adjutant.
And so, in order to be seen or known where I was at any given time during the battle, I often designed my own uniforms and wore the red tie so that I would stand out. And since I was taking a lot of shots, and I mentioned about losing 11 horses shot from under me the men, In a manner of esprit de corps, tore up their red underwear and started wearing red ties to emulate me.
And we became known as the Red Tie Boys throughout the rest of the war and even on to the frontier there are men showing esprit de corps, wear the red tie in emulation of myself. In fact, at one point there was a flood. At Big Creek, just outside Fort Hayes. And my wife and our cook, Eliza Brown, had to save some men who had been washed away when there was a flash flood that came and they went in the trunk.
My trunk, my wardrobe trunk, and gave away all my sailor shirts that I'd wore during the war. And so to replace them, my wife with a sewing machine, made me a, a red bib front shirt fireman's shirt. She knew that red was my favorite color. And once the men started teasing her, especially my brother Tom, that She was trying to collect on my New York life insurance policy. She gave the red shirt to my striker, John Berkman.
And then we began, Tom and I, picking on her that she was trying to get Berkman shot. But the red was always a favorite of mine. And let alone fact, is after the war, on May 23rd, 1865, there was going to be a parade in Washington. It was called the Grand Review. Then President Andrew Johnson was going to review the troops as they rode by his reviewing stand. And because General Sheridan was called to Texas, he put me in charge of the entire Cavalry Corps.
Unbeknownst to me, the night before the parade, the men had gone in to The city of Washington had bought every piece of red silk, red wool, red felt they could get their hands on and cut them up into red ties. And they said there wasn't a full Union suit in all of the city of Washington because all of the men of the Cavalry Corps were wearing red ties. And I was riding a horse. It was a thoroughbred horse, Bay, by the name of Don Juan.
And my groomsman, Johnny Sisko, had tacked out the horse that morning and brushed out my uniform that I was going to wear. And He had used a snaffle bit instead of a curb bit on the horse. So when I mounted Don Juan and took my place at the front of the parade, as I turned off of Constitutional Avenue onto Pennsylvania Avenue, just before the revealing stand, about 50 of these girls in white dresses came up and began pelting the troops with flowers.
And one girl had a big wreath that she was going to throw about the neck of Don Juan. I knew it was going to fall short so I drew my saber to catch it on the end of my saber. And when I did, I slackened the reins for a moment. And Don Juan took the cur snaffle bit and bolted. And as the girls chanted, Custer! Custer! Custer! I flew with my hat blowing off my head past the reviewing stand and everybody talked about there's Custer stealing the show.
Of all the troops that were marching in the parade that day and all the dignitaries that were there I got the headlines in the paper that I'd with the parade. I was able to get the horse under control and return, and then I rendered honors to the President and General Grant and the rest of the staff, all of the, Secretary of War and all of the dignitaries that were in the stands. Not that I am questioning that none of this was intentional.
But , you are pretty good at getting the media to pay attention to you. Is that not true? Well, if that was my goal, you've got to understand that I, I spent a year in Texas as a result of it. That's not a jab on Texas, but remember that General Sheridan said, , if the devil had Texas and hell, he would rent out hell and keep the fires in Texas. So, what do you think , that the public misunderstands about you?
, if they were to buy my book, which is, by the way, a best seller this year my life on the planes, they'd get a little bit of an insight into my character and into my thoughts of the country as well as the American Indian. And realize that those who would besmirch me that want me to be known as an Indian hater is quite the contrary. I have a great admiration for the American Indian, and I have a great love of our country. If people were to read the book, I hope they take that away from it, yes.
That's, okay. I mean I put my, I put my heart out there, my soul in my writings. Do you enjoy writing? Yeah, you know, I, I didn't know that I had that kind of a talent for writing when I was traveling through the, the war, and especially in the early years. It was not unusual for me to stay up late at night, write 30 page letters to my wife, but I found that I had a fancy for the skills and was asked to write for Galaxy Magazine.
And I also wrote for Turf Field and Farm Hunting Magazine that I wrote some of my adventures. And I found that I had somewhat of a flair for it and I enjoy it. So often during the winter months when I'm absconded in my room at Fort Lincoln, I'm sitting there writing articles to send back east for publication. And so I began my memoirs of the Civil War, and I hope in the next year or two to finish them up.
In fact It's just been suggested in the last month when I was here testifying I met with Red Path Lyceum Society and they want to contract me to go around to do Chautauqua give talks of my time during the Civil War and some of the early campaigns on the frontier. And it would kind of supplement my current salary that I'm receiving as a Lieutenant Colonel. ? Why do you think that if you are so good with the media, and because you are, you're so good with the media, they love you.
In fact, there are so many pictures of you in our time. You are probably one of the most photographed people of your time. . And the news when they're looking for news to report, it seems like if they have choices to go through, and there's somebody even maybe at a higher rank, that maybe come your direction.
So, you're aggressive, you get things done, like your work ethic is excellent, you can be disciplined, you can promote discipline with people, but it doesn't seem like when you were outside of the military and you went into business, that for some reason all that didn't translate into business. Were you not very good at business? Well, the military has been a good home for me. Right after the war, I considered going into civilian life.
I didn't really know what I was going to do, but it was suggested that I become a congressman for the state of Michigan, my adopted home. And after joining Andrew Johnson on his swing around the circle, I saw how politics were. And decided to, to stay away from that, that I didn't have the skills appropriate to be a good politician. And so I remained a soldier and my protecting of the railroads has offered me. Complimentary tickets to travel by rail line.
So my wife and I, often in the winter months, when it's nothing on the prairie to do, we come back east. Attend plays and operas in New York. , she likes to come back east. My good friend, Lawrence Barrett, The Shakespearean actor partners with Edwin Booth. He comps me tickets to the theater. I've, I've watched Julius Caesar more than 30 times. He's currently participating in Macbeth. Tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this pity pace from day to day until the last syllables of recorded time.
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle, life is but a walking shadow. A poor player who struts and frits his hour upon the stage. It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury. You have seen that a few times. Have you been an actor? Well, I would have liked to. I have to be an actor when I'm in front of my men because there are times when I have to inspire them.
And I certainly can't tell them that we are outnumbered by the command that we're going to attack. We have to inspire the men to say, you know, we're, we're going to, we're going to whip these boys, you know, we're, we're going to take care of them, otherwise they're not going to follow me. I'm going to be the only horse going down the hill to attack. Yeah. If you're outnumbered and you tell the guys, whew, man, this doesn't look good. I don't know if we're going to be able to do this.
That's not going to turn out very well. What can you tell me about the the, there was an incident with where you found gold somewhere. And I, I don't know all the details of this, but you found gold somewhere, and it was That was two years ago in the Black Hills. That was the Black Hills, okay.
Yes, what happened was, the year before, I was helping the Northern Pacific Railroad survey from Puget from Minnesota to Phuget Sound, and we were looking for a northern range to bring commerce into the northern plains. And because of that we ran into some Indians. And it caused a stir that created a panic, and the railroad was brought to a halt, which subsequently caused a depression that the country is still suffering from to this day.
And it happened that There was some speculation that there might be some gold deposits in the Black Hills, but that was treaty lands to the Sioux, and the only reason for us to go into that land, sacred land, is if we were to establish a stockade. And so I was ordered to go into the Black Hills, but I also was keen enough to bring along some prospectors and mineralists who discovered gold in the grassroots, enough gold that possibly could pay down the debt that the country's in right now.
So an offer was made to me. The tribes to purchase the black Hills for 6 million and they refuse, they wanted 600 million and the government's not in that kind of condition to pay that amount. So that's a little bit of a sticky wicket right now, because with that discovery of gold, the press got hold of it and there's been an influx of prospectors into the black Hills that they're illegally crossing into the black Hills. And all of last year, General Crook spent.
Removing those prospectors from the Black Hills in order to thwart an impending war. Now, I was meeting in Washington with some of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in order to discuss the possibility of upcoming campaign this summer. To round up some of those recalterant Sioux and return them to the reservations. They have caused some mischief and a number of settlers have had their livestock run off and a certain amount of deprivations that have been taken in retaliation has escalated.
The tension so that it's a tinderbox up in that part of the Northern Plains. So a suggestion that we mount a military expedition and return the Indians to the reservations. gold makes people crazy. The Americans are just not going to walk away from that and not find a way to get that gold. Well, it'll be partly up to the military to keep the people out of the Black Hills until we can come to some sort of agreement with the Indian tribes. That is our goal. Is that not sacred land though?
Yes, but until we get them back to the reservations in order to be able to talk and use diplomatic means nothing's going to be resolved. It's hard to imagine that having a good outcome. So what what's next for you? Are you gonna run for president? I mean, what do you, what do you see happening next? I, I told you I have no political aspirations, but You know, everybody says that right before they run for president. Well, I don't know that that's, that's in my near future. I did have.
An idea that I'd like to be head of the Bureau of Indian Affairs because I have a knowledge of the American Indian and do well with them. But Could that lead to a presidential in the future? Possibly, but right now that's not what I'm thinking of. My hopes are, my wife would like me to retire. She feels I'm getting long in the tooth in the military right now.
And it happens that my brother, and I have purchased land in Monroe, Michigan, a farm where I'm thinking of raising thoroughbred racehorses. You know, I spent a couple of years in Kentucky and purchased a lot of horses for remounts for the military, but I also came to a great on racehorses and had a horse named Frogtown that I ran pretty, pretty good. The horse I'm currently using now on campaign is a horse named Vic.
Who was the son of Glencoe , that has been a a triple crown winner a number of times, a racehorse in the South, and I'm, I've got a great deal of knowledge where I think that it's possible that I could Raised thoroughbred horses in Michigan at a stud farm and could be a financial Windfall for my brother Nevin and I yeah, when you were dealing with horses when you were a kid I mean that's between the cavalry and and what you're talking about here It's just something that it's
going to be part of your life permanently. I can see myself doing that sooner than sitting behind a desk in an oval office And being frustrated because one man can't control the country as much as everyone thinks that a president can make decisions. It takes Congress and the Senate to, to work with them, to, to get things done. You'd probably be punching some guys in their face for that. You might run out of patience. I caned Rice A. C. Rice a few weeks ago.
I thought I was going to spend some time in jail, but he had it coming. He deserved it. Well, General Custard, it has been wonderful speaking with you. I mean, I really did not understand what kind of person you were, and I'm glad that you what , your feelings about Because there are people that say you're an Indian hater. I don't think that's the case at all. I think, it sounds to me like you're just a guy that was just doing his job. And, you know, we all have responsibilities.
And unfortunately, sometimes unpleasant things need to be done. And I just, I appreciate , your contribution and what you've done to make our country what it is. I, I guess I'd just ask you one last question before we go. And maybe, maybe two. And that would be, number one I guess, well, maybe this is it. What, what, do you have any big regrets? Is there, are there any things that you wish you would have done differently? No, I can't really say that I, I have.
I, I've tried to treat people with respect and as well as my adversaries in battle. And I think I've never had to back up to take a paycheck because most of the things that I've done, I've given my best. So I, I really don't have any real regrets. I've done everything to the best of my ability and, and tried to do it with as pure a heart and a God fearing way. Well, I am so thankful for your time. Is there anything else you'd like to add then before you go back to Mr. Bell's show?
Well, I, I just, I wonder about this device, if it's going to catch on. I mean, I've heard you very clearly, but I don't know if you're in the next room and you're just pulling my leg the whole time. That and this thing about the future, I, I, I can't wrap my head around it, but I, I have enjoyed this. and I, I could see the saving a lot of paper instead of writing those 30 page letters to my wife at night.
I could probably get to bed much sooner if I was able to talk to her a few minutes on the telephone. I think the telephone, it's like telegraph but it's telephone. Yeah, I think you're exactly right too. I think you'd save a whole bunch of paper. That would be capital. Yes. Well, sir, thank you again for everything. I wish you the absolute best. I hope you have a long, long life after this. Thank you. God bless you. So what do you think? Was Custer an Indian hater?
Riding across the plains to push the Native Americans off their ancestral lands and onto reservations? Or was he just a man doing his job? A dirty job, by the way, that few others were willing to do. There's no question that what happened to the Native Americans was wrong. We stole their lands. But the life you're probably enjoying today is probably Partly because men like George Custer were willing to take on that dirty work. What about the Civil War?
When most of the best officers left West Point to go fight for the South, can you imagine what the world would look like now if Grant and Custer had not been there to hold the Union together? And speaking of Custer's luck, it's incredible that he ended up leading men at all. At West Point, he racked up hundreds of demerits and was on the verge of being expelled. outbreak of the Civil War, they probably would have sent him packing. But the timing was perfect. The war gave him a second chance.
And somehow, against all odds, the Union got the leader it needed at just the right moment. Custer may have done as much harm as he did good, but he saw it as his job and his duty. And when duty called, he never cowered. Thanks for listening, and don't forget that when you tell a friend about the Calling History podcast, a mime gets caught in an actual invisible box. I'm Tony Dean, and until next time, I'm History.