ROUNDTABLE 1 - Let's Talk The Phenomenon

Calling All Beings, y'all, welcome back to Calling All Beings, Party People. I'm your host, DJ san Marco on a Sunday afternoon for our first ever timed round table. Ain't gonna be no Danny She and philibustering up in here, know what I'm saying, Andy, not gonna happen, all right, no idea, So we had no I'm not that that ever happened. So we have an esteemed panel. And no they're not broccoli. They are my friends and some of your luminaries. Unfortunately, we lost dan Z today

the signal. A friend called out to Dan and asked him that he actually needed Dan's help in terms of transportation he or she, And if it were I, I would do the same thing. I'd say peace out on the podcast today and I'd go help my friend. So I got love and respect for dan Z and we'll get him on another time. But let us introduce our our our formerly mentioned a steam panel coming to us from the United Kingdom by way of Scotland. Party people. Put your hands together for Andy chilling

with mcgrillian. I'm actually unmute this whole show, right, Yeah pretty much? Yeah? Yeah, Hi everyone you okay, good to good to be here, good to be back. DJ. Well, first time on that one, but second time with you and add isn't it so? Oh go? It's probably the third, but that's okay, I forgot yeah, third. But anyway, he's the host of that UFO podcast they are now on kg R. I just want to add a little bit of some of that for that, because you guys are going to be able to hear him across

the US. Next is my man. He's an engineer, he's a proud Tennesseean. He's a brilliant mind in the UFO community. The fifth pillar of emphasis on TikTok. Actually, are you on YouTube as well? Yeah? I have a YouTube channel where I post some longer videos as well. Yeah, yes, I just got to have lunch with this man and go hang out at the Air Force Pace party. People put your hands together for that.

Hey, look over there, Dan what thanks for having me? DJ Man, Hey, I just want to say that you're better looking on screen than in person, so I'm glad to have it in this conversation in this way. All right, I'll recover this man right here, my fellow New York brother who has never seen a squat rack that he didn't like. Okay, he is the He's actually went to Cleveland and worked out with Louis what's his name? Wait in Cleveland, Glynn? No, it's in uh in

Ohio. Oh oh no, no, no no. I trained with somebody who used to train there at West Side bar Bell, west Side bar Bell together for New York's own engaging the phenomenon. And he actually has a new podcast he's gonna tell us about today party people put your hands together for New York. Oh, James, I and Doley my paison. Yes whoa yes, well, I coming coming from an Italian, it should be yond Doley. But sorry, no, not no, and Andy knows what that's about.

Yeah, all right, so we're good now, all right, James Ian Doley, I dig it man. Uh So anyway, Nathan, we're here for a roundtable. It's gonna be time questioning and answers. Any member of the panel can yield their time to someone else. Uh. And we're gonna do this. Uh. We'll go alphabetically counterclockwise because we are counterculture, not for long, though not for long. We're about to join the mainstream, so get get ready for it. Uh So let's start off with Andy

pleased and Nathan anything that you have to add. Oh wait a minute, hold up, not going anywhere. I want everybody please to recognize my brilliant co host because he is part of the show. I met him because of Andy, because he called into an episode I had Andy on with. He's responsible for a lot of all the technology you see on this show. Nathan has put together. He's brilliant. He's everything that I'm not. He is at a wave soul party. People put your hands together for Nathan. Thank

you, thank you, thank you. He's brilliant. All right, go ahead and go ahead, Nathan. Yeah, thank you guys for being on the show. Beyond thrilled to have y'all with us today and excited to hear kind of what you have to say. So we're gonna do this roundtable style. Andy, you're gonna kick us off, tell folks a little bit about you your show, and kind of white with drub too, and then and then Dan, we'll do the same with you. Once we get back around

and Andy will type the first topic. We'll go from there. Yeah awesome. Yeah. So my name is Andy mcgrillan. I host that UFO podcast. Started it back in May twenty twenty, and here we are almost eighteen months later. It's been it's going all right. Got to meet a lot of cool people at yourselves and converse with a lot of cool people online and via email and from all around the world, and it's kind of gone from strength to strength. For whatever our reason. People seem to like it.

So, I mean, some people hate it, but I like hearing from them as well. Nobody and oh oh no they do. I can show you the emails. But you know, it's fine. It's just adding something else, hopefully to this topic for some people. And and we have discussion and news updates and it just kind of has and still evolves a bit organically. You know. Some stuff works, some stuff doesn't. And obviously recently we've joined over onto kg r A as well. I have to say that

slowly in my accent. Otherwise it is caj R, which no one knows what I'm saying. So yeah, it's been. It's been a kind of wild eighteen months, but which all resulted in yesterday me attending and actually speaking at my first UFO conference in Preston, helping some folk out. Can I last minute? But that was good. That was fun. Look forward to a little bit more of that in the future in some way, shape or form. So yeah, good to be here, good to good to chat.

Can you just tell what is important do you hope to accomplish? That's one thing I want to get from every penaly here. What do you hope to accomplish? What's your mission in the community? Just to prove there's no such thing as alien life? And just move on from there? Do you know what it's to contribute? And the way I set up the show wasn't like if TTSA is a success, then brilliant, I can stop it. It's just whatever happens in terms of the conversation that as much as anything,

it helps me. Can I keep up to date and understand what's going on and dip any different aspects of the conversation, allow me to form my opinion as I go along, And if other people listening as I do that get something from that and it helps them out to then then all the better. So it's one of those things I've I've always said, and I maybe one day get on a business card, but if twenty people listening to the podcast, I'd be happy. And it's more than that now, So yeah,

so awesome. I've took up enough time someone else Dan, Yeah, yeah, my brother tell us about you yourself and what you hope to accomplish in the topic or what you want to bring to the topic. Well, I don't have any any calling card for being qualified to be a voice in the UFO community. I've never seen anything, never done anything. I've just I've been obsessed with it since childhood, and that was a long time ago.

So I've learned a lot over the decades, and that's what has got me to the point where I'm at where now I've turned around and started looking at the next generation that's coming, and there's a steep learning curve associated with the UFO topic, and we are the UFO community is the master of long format discussions. So I saw a niche where I would like to be. I would like to contribute to people getting introduced to the topic in short, because

we have more short attention spans in the community now than ever before. I'm trying to address those people. I'm trying to reach out. And it was on I can't remember if it was Andy's or Luis's podcast with lou where he said get your ass off the couch and get involved. And once he said that, I said, all right, well I've got to do something. What can How can I contribute? And I'm able to. My success at work is based on my ability to communicate complex topics in a simple manner,

so that's what I try to do. I tried to use TikTok as a way to simplify the topic into short snippets packed full of information as well as references to the longer format information that's available to them, so that they can if they choose to go and investigate themselves, because I think investigating yourself is going to be the way to get people introduced this topic and keep them. If we just tell them and try to force down their throat, they're not

going to stay. They're not going to become invested in the topic like we need them to be. So I'm trying to just be a bridge from no information to some information, just to plant that seed. And I found TikTok and all the tools are there to be able to start a channel and you don't have to you don't have to know a bunch of different software programs. So that's why I chose that, And it's also avoid there's not a lot of people in the UFO community on TikTok, and the outreach associated with the

algorithm for TikTok is incredible. I've got a video that's got almost eight hundred thousand views, and so that's just that's a lot of exposure to for the topic. And so that's my goal is try to try to help people not have to jump in the deep end of the pool like we all are already treading water in, but let them ease into the small, shallow parts of

the wave pool before they get into the deep end. Nice James iron Doli, my brother, Engaging the phenomenon and your new podcast which is called Meta Beta Perspective Meta Perspective, Please tell us about why you yourself and why that, what you want to bring to the community, what you hope to bring to the community. Yeah, well, so I'm James. I have the we're breaking up the James James consciousness. There we go. Yeah, James, here, you may you may have to come out and go back in

please yah. Yeah, we can't here, we can't. Hears We'll bring him back. We'll bring him back, Nathan, I'll take it. Well, he's he's coming back. To, So, yeah, I'm Nathan. As DJ mentioned, h I got connected with him through Andy and Andy Show is a huge shout out to that that show gracious enough for me to to make room for me to come and have a chat with with with both you Andy and with DJ. I have not had an experience. I'm an experiencer.

I grew up in a kind of a religious of religious background and went to school for religious studies and theology, and this was a Christian sort of theology and that kind of thing. Ended up not really going down that path and just got a regular career like everybody else. Have always had an interest in sci fi though, and and in this topic in particular. And I don't think that we're alone. I think that, you know, the universe

has to be full of something. But it's interesting for me. So it's sort of taking these kind of concepts that we're very much a part of a religious upbringing and a religious way of looking at the world in the universe, but also then taking that to this topic and I think there's some certainly a

lot of parallels there. My hope is that we can have this conversation with more and more people, not just people that you know, are naturally sort of in the topic because they've had an experience, but people who are in all walks of life. I want us to be able to have this conversation UH and talk to folks who have specialties in all kinds of different areas and say, hey, you know, you're a specialist in this. You know, how would how would the revelation that we're not alone impact what you do?

You know, how would it impact what you do within the within the world that we live in. I think we've got to start having that conversation outside of the outside of the tight circles that that we're in right now. That's why I'm here, James Ian Doley my man from New York or excuse me, Ian Doley. So I don't get I think you were right the first time, right, yeah, yeah, that's actually it's Ian Doley or jan Doley Doley. I don't care. It's all good than me. Go

for it, brother, all right, I'm James. I have both the YouTube channels and podcasts engaging the phenomenon, which is UH mostly UFOs and CE five and consciousness, And then I have a new UH YouTube and podcast called Meta Perspective, which if people are familiar with the term going meta. Uh, it's definitely you know, into subjects like consciousness, but also awakening, mindfulness and meditation, philosophy and those kind of broader uh subjects. And you

know, I got involved. You know, i'd actually been in the field for quite a while, more so behind the scenes, and since like maybe two thousand and nine twenty ten, I'm actually engaging with researchers and and you know, building social media groups on like Facebook and talking with experiencers and UFO researchers, and I'm somebody who has had experiences and so regarding that, you know, I feel in my own kind of mind that I know the UFO

reality to be a matter of fact. And with that comes like a sense of obligation that, you know, if I know something for sure that I think is as a genuine reality, unquestionably, I feel somewhat obligated to share about that reality. And you know, and it was never focused so much on my experiences more than the actual work itself. And you know, because of my experiences, I found C five, which is highly controversial and it's

gone under many different names over millennium. Modern iteration of it, and you know, regardless of all the taboo. I think doctor Stephen Greer has done a great job of getting you know, the word out, and you know, despite all the hate that goes towards him, uh, you know, which in some cases he kind of brought on himself because he burns every bridge he touches. It's a specialty. Uh. If you go back and it's it's true. If you go back and you look at Valet, Jacques Vallet

and Heinek, they're all saying the same thing. It's all consciousness connected to the phenomenon. Uh, you know. And again this is there's there's so much anti antigonal evidence I guess or observation to that it's an empirical that is actually ridiculous at this point. So you know, for me, I saw CE five as a way is like I can sit here and tell you all day about my experience or or or uh, you know, the witnesses that have come forward of you know, high high level military and and whatsoever.

And that's great, but you know, for the people who are who who really want to know, who are you know, willing to go out of their way and and taken the initiative, I saw CE five as something is where okay, like you don't have to listen to me, you can go out and you can do this yourself and find out for yourself that this is

a genuine, you know, reality. So that's that's kind of where I'm coming from with engaging the Phenomenon. Also, you know, on the podcast, I'm kind of piecing together my perspective on the phenomenon and and you know, hoping people appreciate that. And you know, also on on the Engage of the Phenomenal podcast, I have people on where I'm questioning those perspectives too.

So it's it's it's a really cool way for me to have an excuse to speak to other awesome researchers and and and have that conversation out there for everybody. Yeah, that's awesome. We're super excited to see what you're gonna do with that new platform. Uh. And you know what you're gonna say today. Uh And so I guess on that front, we're gonna kick it off here with Andy. So what I wanted everybody to give a quick preview to We're gonna this is gonna be tight. We're gonna tight ship. You

guys know a DJ he does not mess around. So we are running the tight ship here. We got no we got time constraints. We want to get it all done. So we've got a little time where we're gonna run. Everyone's gonna get a minute and a half to introduce their topic, and then everybody gets a minute and a half to respond with their thoughts to the topic itself. So Andy's gonna start with the first segment, I suppose, and then then we're gonna go to you for your reaction, and then James

and myself and DJ will also get it a start to react too. So I'm going to add our little clock here to the shell. And Andy, oh, I know right, no sounds. I don't worry, no pressure. Pressure is just part of live people. Go ahead, Andy, So I want to bring up the fact that we won't get disclosure from the government, and that's disclosure with a capital D. But that's okay, we don't need it. We have a soft drip disclosure. But from here on in

it's a bit of a figure it out for yourselves. The government isn't one a few or even hundreds of people in the know. It's thousands, many of which never meet or know what the others do. There's probably been at least in the past, if not still a small group who know what's going on when it comes to the phenomenon. But capital d disclosure that that will

force consequences, that will force investigations, that will force prosecutions. Those people who in the early days of crash retrievals and you'll going back to the late forties are long gone. Their successors merely carried on their work rightly or wrongly. Personally, I'm okay with that moving forward, and I'm okay moving forward without the need for going back like that. People are newer to world governments and in positions of power entertaining the subject. You know, your Warners,

your Rubios, and other names that are coming out more and more. You're seeing now that there's funding for the subject and allowing serious scientists and great minds to uncover the secrets of what might be going on. The government will largely be finding out for the first time what's going on. With that we get confirmation slow discovery may be the clear setting of a craft official release worldwide,

but then what maybe years past before we see something else officially again. For me, that's okay, it's progress as long as we keep moving forward, we don't need Capital D disclosure. We just need to keep moving forward nice, all right, Dan, What you got for that? So there is I believe it was the African genocides that occurred where they gave people they forgive

the forgave them of their sins. Basically if they came forward and basically spilled their beings and confess to what the crimes that they had done and committed were, so that they kind of put all the puzzle pieces together. That's an approach that I think would work with the US government where we can say, Hey, this is your opportunity to come clean, to provide us the information that you've held onto and kept from the public, without any ramifications legally to

your careers or anything along those lines. I think that's a healthy approach to take to try to get the information out, which it would be great to have because that's a lot of what I know. We want to not have Capital D disclosure from the government, but at some point I feel like a president is going to have to say it for it to be taken seriously across the board, just as a formality if nothing else. I also don't want to have this be something that says, Okay, we're going to get the

information out. We're not going to compensate those that have been negatively impacted career wise for the negative impacts that talking about this topic has had on their flight status, their biological effects that have occurred because of them exposing being exposed to this phenomenon. So that's my overarching part of it. We need to forgive, but not forget, and help those recover that need to need help to be recovering. All right, James, I think I'm next. Oh okay,

go for it. Yeah, no, alphabet, you're right, go okay. So Andy, I would say, I think, you know, we have to look at this time as things are not this or that things can be this and that. So it's like a shade, like the background of that clock is gray. So we needed the government to they are a de facto authority on Okay, these are real, these objects that were seen out over the Pacific Ocean and seen out over the Atlanta those are authentic videos

that enabled us to start a whole new conversation. And I don't I recognize fully in what you said, they've deceived us since nineteen forty seven their own statement after they said they were flying saucers came out and said, oh no they're not, they're weather balloon. So they contradicted themselves within a span of I don't know what was it, twenty four hours ye, when General Raimi

saw the press release. And so we know that they've deceived us, But we still have to rely on the fact that if they release another video and say this is real, every single one of us is going to say, oh, okay, we've got video, we've got audio, we've got narratives, and therefore this is a real event, and now we're going to dive into it and attack it like a hyena on a down water buffalo, as we should. But unfortunately they do have a de facto authority even though they

have deceived us willingly and for a long period of time. Nice all right, James, Yeah, So I basically agree with what Andy is saying. You know, you know, first of all, the government is you know, if we're gonna talk about the US government or whatever, world power is not a monolith. Uh, it seems fractured. And we can see that politically. Now imagine with this topic spanning decades, you know, how fractured or broken that system is from the inside, and this topic only exploits that,

and and and really demonstrates that. But I think to some extent, you know, we're not we're not really going to get disclosure from uh, these world powers or even say just you know, in the US government, right. I don't think they're going to come out and say, hey, you know, they're not going to tell us what we want to hear. I'm not even completely sure that they know even if they had recovered crafts with uh, you know, entities, you know, who's to say they know

where those are from technically. But you know, you have people, you know, demonstrating that it's not a monolith in a sense. You have people like Louiel Azando and David Fravor and Alex Dietrecht who you know, are in a sense they're not really part of the government, but they're part of a small group that's already like making penance and come and clean, so to speak. Yeah, So I I think that I certain agree you're right, Andy.

I think that one of the challenges here though, too, is that we're now at an age where state power is less effective on sort of narrative control than it you used to be. And so I think that's one of the big challenges that the United States is going to have in walking this subject out, is that we're living in a day where information distribution and quote unquote

the truth is much less hard. It's much much harder to control. And so even if the US were to, I think, try to wrangle this subject and you know, say this is what we know, we're already in a time where nobody believes, you know, we were so factional, nobody really believes what the United States is telling the public. There's a lot of you know, sort of distrust there, and so earning that trust back is going to be very very difficult. And imagine them trying to roll this subject

out and then looking at the history of it. I mean, talk about an erosion of trust right there. The credibility of the government is completely eroded. So and to some degree, I think, you know, your point is is incredibly pertinent because the truth in a way has to come from the ground up rather than from the top down. And so but but what does that look like? And if we all don't have access to some of the core facts, if we're not working off of some similar facts, how do

we really arrive at a at a at a valid conclusion? All right, so first round is done. That means great job everybody. Somebody see somebody backstage? Should we should we bring this person on? All right, here we go. I'm let me drop this off and then we'll bring them on. Yeah, thank you, hello, Hello, thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I'm on Luis, Yo, what's up, James? I got to give you a high five Okay, square situation excellent?

What's going on, gentlemen? Yeah? Yeah, good to have you with us. Okodure to meet you. Nathan? Yeah, likewise man? Yeah all right? So am I here to throw in the bomb? Yes, I just wanna. I just want to put out everybody that you're here because we're so excited that you could make it. Since I screwed up the top, none of us knew you were coming here, so this is a total surprise to everyone. Even Nathan did not know. Yeah, okay, yeah cool, Yeah, well you kept in a good secret. Yeah, I

just saw. I was like, let me just check my messages, and I was like, okay, cool, he needs me right now. Let's do this to representatives from kg R A in the house baby fight, finish it exactly. I'm just gonna have that, James somehow, all right, go for it, Louis, Okay, So I guess my I'm supposed to throw. Are they aware of the grenade like the grenade topic? No,

they don't know, and they have no idea what you're gonna do. I'm hoping that it will make everybody upset and start throwing snowballs at one another. Does Louise get the time or too or he gets just to like, you know, he gets the time or too? All right? All right, tough. So I was just gonna throw in the topic of UFO tours. What is everybody's thoughts on them? Has anybody ever done a UFO tour? Uh? And uh yeah, that's it, dude. I don't need that

much time. That was I was told to throw a topic that might be controversial. Yes, And that's the one that came to mind only because we just had on me Linda Lensley and so she she had she has a UFO tour. We didn't even get to that part of the conversation where we actually have to have her back for I think maybe fourteen more parts. But but she's she's I mean, she's fascinating and I love talking to her. But yeah, she's got a UFO tour in Sedona, California, And even when

you yelp it, people are pretty satisfied with it. Oh wow, Okay, yeah, Andy, you're up. This is actually red meat for Andy right now. We don't need to put it on the grill our restart his timer. I already took fright, it's not good enough. Yeah, there we go. Boom, Yeah, cheers Luise. Yeah. So the UFO tour stuff, I mean, I know, James, this kind of goes back to some of the Stephen Greer and I know people like Melinda aren't necessarily

charging two or three thousand dollars per per tour as such. But the idea behind these tours, if it's the same kind of stuff Luise is talking about, is that people are paying to go around and hear some historical, you know, stories of what mey and me have happened in different areas and get a sense of a you know, a particular monument or you know, Betty

and Barney Hill's area, stuff like that. But there's probably some kind of expectation they're going to see something on these tours, and I'm always wary if that comes into it. And again that goes to if you're looking at the extreme of a Stephen Greer's three thousand dollars guarantees you and eaty experience when it's

not as the picture of the back of someone's chair. But you know, as opposed to if, like Milinda's tours and other tours, someone just got in touch with me actually who's looking to run one in Glasgow, Scotland, And that's that's great, and there'll be some history and culture within that as well, but not the expectation they're going to see something. And I would

hate to think on these things that it's deliberately set up. You know, pilots will fly out and drop flares, or someone's got there the little brother kicking about with a drone behind a bush at a height. That would be disappointing. But I've got no issue with UFO tours. I think they're cool and as long as it gets the history out there, and I think it's something that people might go along to with a friend who don't have an interest

in the subject that leave with an interest. Nice dude, I love it, Dan, all right. I've actually been on the Haunted Ashfield tour before, and I thought it was going to be about ghosts and things like that, but it was about history. So to me that was the best part of it because that's a side of the story of a town's history that you're not going to know about unless you go on something that's very specific like that. So if they if a UFO tour gives you some background information of a

high strange this area. I mean, of course, if we went to Skinwalker Rette Ranch, they'd be all lots of people would go to that. The Marphall Lights are something that come to mind, like that would be a really cool tour to go to and maybe see something if it could happen. But as long as they're putting out information that is historically accurate and like like we're saying, don't promise people that you're gonna see something. No one told me I was going to see a ghost. They told me I was going

to learn about it. So that's the mindset I had going into it. So my expectations were met when I went on these things, and it is a great opportunity to talk to other people that have similar interest, get to meet them, get to expose your friends to it. I'll take my kids to a ghost tour, spook them out a little bit. That's fun. It's always fun when your kids grab your leg grow hard when they're nervous. But it's just an enjoyable time to spend with people that you hang out with.

So I'm all for it unless it's flares from planes, and then it's awesome. DJ. Yeah, I'm in violent agreement with the previous two speakers. I think that they're okay as long as you don't over promise and under deliver. I think it should be the inverse of that, and if it does bring people to the topic, I think it's okay. It's it's a little bit kooky because you would think if you're going to bring somebody on a UFO tour, they're kind of going to think that, hey, we might

see something. But in that case, I'm going to yield the balance of my time to James. Yeah, sure I can. I can do the entire rest of the show on this topic. Well, look, you have to look at it like this. You know, first of all, I'm personally I'm not a fan of charging any kind of money for disclosing and kind of you know, showing people a fundamental reality. I'm kind of biased on that and I understand that, you know, people's time and efforts should be

compensated. So that's why I think and say doctor Stephen Greer's case, you know, where the prices are outrageous. It hurts the movement, and you know, less you know, if it's a lesser price, I guess it's not as big a deal. That's you know, you're compensating people's time and effort. But again, the price, say that doctor Stephen Greer charges is absolutely ridiculous. It's just you know, over the top, and and people

have to understand where this is coming from. So when first of all, doctor Stephen Greer is not the first person to get people together, form groups and do contact. But the original purpose of those contact you know, they were not UFO tours. They were CE five Initiative Citizens Ambassador Contact Training.

So the whole purpose of those events was to get people together, teach them how to do CE five field work, to mobilize them so that they can go out and form their own groups and do this work in their areas and then become working group leaders or organizers for their area. But there were issues with that because doctor Stephen Greer had a very tight leash on those groups and

you can't use c seti's name and likeliness and and all that. But it started out actually for much cheaper prices with Stephen Greer, and it was better for mobilized and contact groups. Now where the prices are so extraordinary, it's not it's not good for, you know, helping to mobilize groups to go out and make contact so they can have their own disclosures and even in their own right become citizens diplomats to UFO intelligence. Nice, I mean I think

that. Oh yeah, I'm sorry, Louise, please jump in. Oh everyone was so eloquent. Yeah. I I like the idea of calling it maybe a SkyWatch tour as opposed to a UFO tour. Like, yeah, verbiage is everything. I mean, who knows, maybe you do see a UFO or you see a satellite or it would be cool. Also if those tours were equipped with, say someone looking at sky tracking data or you know whatever, other sorts of instruments like infrared or night vision and things like that,

that would be cool. So people could switch between different spectrums of light. They can they can look at the at the radar and say, oh, you know, seek a satellite is still really exciting, Like when you see this the the you know, the Elon Musk, what is that skylink?

I was gonna say link of satellites. It's awesome, Like it's cool to see and to have stars and galaxies pointed out to you in a history given of what the known universe could possibly hold in beyond and you know, giving people different idea of how to think, as opposed to we're gonna we're going to go out there. We're going to see UFOs, we're going to see aliens, We're going to see you know, other non human entities. And and I think it's there's a big you know, and charging people.

I can understand charging people for a tour like that, you know, like the first example that I gave you, you know, the second example, I would you know, obviously I'd be skeptical, but I'd go check it out. Why not? You know, it could be fun. A worst case scenario, you're out underneath the stars and getting a good night of fresh

air. Best case scenario, maybe you do see a UAP. So yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean for me, it's so a UFO tour falls into a long tradition of and I think Dan, you know your your analogy to the ghost tours, it is a good one, but it falls into a very long tradition of sort of human beings trying to have a connection with the mythology, you know where if you look back and just take Christian history as a good example, you know, they're all kinds of of stories

where people go to certain you know, tiny little church sites or shrine sites whatever to try to see you know, a piece of a saint, you know, the shirt that they wore, whatever. So that this has a long history and I think human culture to try to connect with in a community way, with other people connect with this thing that they have a strong belief in. Where I have a huge concern is in the predatory nature of the

of a tour. So if we are predating people, you know where we're trying to get them to join this tour with the promise of, as you guys have said, seeing some sort of grand thing and then fleecing them for a whole bunch of money. I think that is you know, totally disingenuous.

And in the community, it's our responsibility to call that out. You know, if we're going to have a community that is healthy, you know, where we uh provide a safe space for people to have a conversation, we we have to call it when we see it and say this is not okay. We can't allow those folks to continue doing it. And I guess on that point, and I know we can't keep talking about it, but I am curious about We know there are people doing this right now, So

what is our responsibility to kind of call those folks out on it. That's a great way to finish it off. And I think we do have that responsibility, but we also have a responsibility to press on with our next panelist topic. That's right, So I think that's Dan right, That is my man, Dan, Yes, Dan, take it away all right. I'll tack on to that last one real quick and say, first time people use night vision goggles, it really grounds you to how immense the universe that you

live in is. So that's another big plus to those things. Nice, But instead of looking out sometimes we might need to look behind us. My question pertains to history. It appears that the phenomenon has been interacting with humanity for a long time. We currently focus on the US government releasing videos as what as the gold standard for what we would want to see to get into the general public and scientific community to accept the phenomena as fact. It's but

what could be undeniable physical proof that has already been discovered? I'll of the inclusion of the discovered material proportion of HR forty three point fifty. What do you think has been discovered and stored away from the public knowledge, either intentionally or unintentionally, or it could have or it could have simply been misidentified as something prosaic that is in someone's vault somewhere that could shift public opinion on the

phenomena. And where do you think this evidence could be located that's outside of the government. Oh, man, Andy stole my topic. Man, fine, Yeah, that's definite. Yeah, so good, good shout down what has been discovered and stored away? I mean it seems pretty caught and dry that even Louela is Onto himself has said that they're is pieces or potentially an intact craft stored away. Craft from where and of who's we don't necessarily know.

I think there's likelihood we've got crafts that have been dug up as part of archaeological digs, and that suppose opens up, you know when you see I ceed to love on Twitter and I don't know how true they are, but a picture of some device and it's like this is dated back almost fifty thousand or one hundred thousand years, and the technology is so advancing. The idea that there may have been advanced civilizations long before us, that whatever happened

to them, they went away. And maybe those people got to a point they left the planet and you know they've done what they've done. Maybe they went underground for whatever reason. Who knows. Antarctica's one as well. You know what's under the ice, what's in the ice, what could be stuck there. That's something I've always wanted to try and talk about on the show as well. It's a little bit more out there, but I think it's

interesting. I think some of this stuff is stored away, obviously for defense reasons, for technological superiority for other countries, but a large part in going back to what I mentioned earlier about government not necessarily knowing a whole lot that we think they do, is it a case of they don't know what it is, so it stored a way to try and work out what it is, because that would be a scary thing for any government to have to admit.

To turn around as even the biggest government in the world, like the United States, and say we have this, we don't really know what it does, like having an iPhone, and you can work out it can make phone calls, but you know nothing else about it. Where is it? Lockheed Martin, Boeing and those kind of places, nice dj oh okay, I thought, okay, yeah, it was Dan's topic, so I'm up, yeah, wait can you reset the alright? I'm up? All right it So basically, you know, from my point, you don't really need

the premise. Andy's premise is basically plausible deniability. You really don't need plausible deniability for something that people were not looking for back then. And if there were, let's say, plausible anel news was the reason up in front of Congress they could just couch their questions and committee and say, okay, is there do we now have or were we ever in the possession of? And there goes the plausible deniability. Second of all, the way the government works

is based on custodial responsibility. So we have some of Lockheed Martin's equipment. They have some of our equipment. It still remains our equipment even though they've hand receided that equipment and they have custodial responsibility. The safest place on the planet is Area fifty one because they have seven different layers of community of security in the air. And if I want a big low Aerospace or Lockheed Martin and my scientists to work there, and they do work there to analyze that

material, I bring the scientists to the material. I don't bring the material to a much less insecure facility for them to look at it. That's how that works. We already have contractors working at those places, and we could bring them, give them a clearance and bring them in. But you don't put that stuff on a truck and put out in the middle of life, Vegas where anyone could drive up to the fence line. You keep it behind multiple layers of security. James, Yeah, you know, we're doing Crash

Retrieval Week October seventeenth, October twenty fourth. That's going to be talking about crash retrievals and you know possible recovered UFO technology, which I mean, I think is a topic that should be front and center. You have people like again Luel Azando has has made several references to this. I don't think he's he's putting it out there on a whim, speculatively, just kind of to

entertain the idea. It seems to me to imply that he may have, you know, awareness and official capacities that he was part of of such materials. And then you have people like doctor Davis, who's made some astounding statements. You know, we know the alleged Wilson Davis memo with a meeting they had with Vice Adamal Tom Wilson talking about some of this. We don't know obviously if the information that was discussed is accurate. But you know, doctor

Davis has a much deeper involvement than I think most people realized. Before he was even in KNIDS, he was working in classified programs for the Air Force, and he you know, he gave briefings to people and defense committees regarding crash retrievals, you know, for the Senate Intelligence Committee that speaks for itself.

Let me just say as to where the materials are, I think there's a genuine part that is tied to underground facilities, you know, whether it be the Utah Proving Grounds, whether it be Area fifty one, yeah, Doug Way Proven Grounds. You know, and you know the stories of of Neil McCasland talking to Tom DeLong about you know, recovering alien life forms. We can and somebody feel free to yield your time back to James or No, that's I just want to You're more than welcome. I mean, that's

why I just wanted to clarify. I'm I'm hoping that somebody can come up with evidence outside of the US government that is accessible, because we're never going to get into Area fifty one to be able to it's outside of the US and that's why there's any evidence. That's why that place is so amazing is because nobody today, nobody, not one person could we get on our shows that could tell you what's inside, what what flight programs are running there?

Because nobody knows. That's why you keep stuff there anyway, Louise, Louise Eric Davis had a prodigious career in baseball before getting into UFOs. Go ahead, please, okay, oh you might sign to Andy. What do you got, No at all, Louise, I just want two seconds, because the whole thing about Area fifty one. Right now, everyone does know about Area fifty one, So yeah, yeah, you can't. You're shaking your head, but that's a factual statement. Everyone knows about Area fifty one.

What are we know? What are running there? You know it's a place. That was the statement. Yeah, so you can't, you disagreed, So yeah, so yeah, everyone knows about ERYA fifty one. So if you're Russia or China and you can get spies involved, then you could potentially

have You're shaking your head, but you don't know. So I'm saying the fact is that why you wouldn't put it there, like you said you definitely would, is that you don't know the people working and there are one hundred percent necessarily trustworthy just for the fact that one of them, Bobblas are,

if he did work there, is out talking about it now already. So if he could work there and get a story out, then why wouldn't they potentially be Russian, Chinese or some other government spies in therewith the tech, hence you move it to a third party subcontractor, which is a lot less well known and can also be a lot I'm sure more end with thrills as opposed to what they do with people who do infiltrate these places. I don't want to go fill James Bond here, but that's just an idea. Anyone

want to yield their time to me, sure, go for it. Yeah, you can have my time, that's fine, okay. So Andy, the thing is is if you if you understand what is what involves a TSSCI background and how they go through that, it's it's extremely difficult if the person wasn't at least born here. So you understand how far they go back in your background and trace back everybody that you ever knew from when the time you

could walk until now. I mean, I've been through that, so I know people that they talked to when they did a TSSCI on me twice. So so there's that second of all, again, you don't need to bring the material to a facility once you get if they were to sign over ownership of that material to Lockheed Martin, then now the CEO of Lockheed Martin is in possession of that material, and that material is in a facility that is

one hundred times less by any measure than Area fifty one. There's nobody that you could bring on your show, or anybody here could bring on a show that can tell you what flight programs are running right now or f y nineteen or f y twenty at Area fifty one. This is why you put something there. You bring the scientists that are already. Lockheed Martin's already working there,

so there's no need to bring the material to Lockheed Martin. When you can bring Lockheed Martin to the material, or any contractor for that matter. That's all I have to say. I mean, and I'll take the last few seconds just that, and I generally I know GDJ and I who had a debate on this too. But my only thing I would add to that is if there's material that lands some far place like place far away from Area fifty one, I don't think they're going to truck it across the country at

Area fifty one. Though there are probably multiple places to store this stuff. That would be my suspicion. There are, actually there are, but they're not in there. They're dug away somewhere there. And by the way, this happened in the forties and fifties. This is not stuff that's moving around today on a Mayflower trucking company. Well, can I just add real quick

that I think this there's two things with this idea of crash retrievals. I think, just to answer Dan's question really quick, yes, I think we have materials. I don't think we have a whole craft only because there are archaeological digs happening all over the world right now. One of them hasn't stumbled across one of these things, or a piece of these things, or something

that would really really stick out from anything else. Ever on an archaeological dig, it's a sexy thought that we just found one of these things buried in the ice or in the Grand Canyon or something. But I just, ah, man, it's hard for me to believe it, obviously without seeing it, but it's it would be difficult to cover up. I think. I don't no matter what the base, I could be wrong. But yeah, that's I mean, that's why I just want to say that real quick.

On the material. Yeah, well, it could be at the bottom of the Baltic Sea. None of us know, none of us know well you know, yeah, I mean there's the story that you know, they they found some kind of craft in South America and the US just went over there and took it basically, and who are they to come out and say, oh, the US came and retrieved some kind of debris or whatever it be.

Uh. You know, I think that people are there are other governments that are probably kind of like towing the line and probably afraid to speak out before the US because they know how we operate basically, you know, frankly. But also you know, regarding the top secret clearances, you know, we have to also consider people like Warner Van Brown. And you know, again this is people are gonna be highly skeptical, and that's I definitely can

appreciate that in this sense. But you have people like Uri Geller saying that you know, uh, Warner Ron bound took him and he to see something. Uh, and there were pictures of them together, and you know, Urie is kind of uh, you know, mesmerizing, and he has all these stories. But I think there may be something to that. Again, that's a whole other topic other than just crash retrievals. Right, we have

pop potential UFO technology or debris. Right, what about entities? If we have actual alien life forms for lack of a better term, if we have actual entities, I mean that that's a whole other layer then you know, some kind of even like alien tech drones. Yeah, James, you're up with your topic. So if you want to start your topic off of this and we're having another guess that's gonna pop in in three minutes, but go ahead and uh and start off with this one whatever you want to. Yeah,

I'll start your timer. Sure, I'll just I can I'll just go on from where I was going. So, yeah, so crash crash retrieval materials that you know, there's been some talk about, you know, fully intact craft. Obviously that's that's a hard pill to swallow, you know,

obviously we can't take anything with a grain of salt. It could be disinformation, as with Boblosar story could all purposely have been put there for disinformation against Soviets or anybody else to make them think Number one, that we have fully in craft uh intact crafts number one. Number two, it could be how you have Bibblozar coming out here talking about element one point fifteen, which the Soviets are like, we will never get this. They have a little brick

of it. We can never get it. Therefore we can't develop the technology. So they're also is also kind of like a player, you know, not to disinform the US population, so to speak, but to you know, as a counterintelligence active measure to protect potential development of technology. So you have like several there's several different layers of national security implications to crash retrievals. And again maybe say for the United States government. I'm in the US,

it's in our best interest that those measures have been taken. All right, that sounds good? Before we continue to go ahead, No, I was gonna say that, let's let's get the responses, then we'll bring on our additional guests. So let's go to to Dan and then we'll okay, unless you want to because we've got a good flow here, So I want to want to get dance thoughts on it. Sorry Andy's thoughts. Andy would be next, So oh okay. Again, it's sort of carrying on James the

crash retrieval stuff. And I get as well what what DJ is saying. But I suppose take it from a point of view as someone who's not inside the US and can look at a point of view that you want it to be as secured as you thinks. And it's a nice thought that you know, because you went through what you went through, that it would be so so difficult for someone else to get in there. But whoever made the point

just before about Verna von Braun? Okay, so there was a bunch of Nazis that you gave security clearances to, you know, So let's I suppose that kind of stops that argument dead, that it's hard to get security clearance unless you're born in the US, because they literally gave them to the people

that they brought them over. I mean, so so yeah, and again there's also that you don't know, like again the bubblers are stuff like, he's managed to get this element and it sounds like from the Bubblasar story. Correct me, please anyone if I'm wrong, But he's managed to get something so super secret out of the lab. How again, if this is the place, you know, if this is the place on Earth DJ, how has a scientist like Bubblas are managed to sneak something out and then hide it

this whole time from all those people who apparently are looking after it. So I can see that, yeah, people could get in there. I don't see any good reason why they wouldn't have moved it again since the forties because I'm sure they've got bigger and better places, and he talks at all levels as well, so for me yet, I'm I don't see any reason why this stuff couldn't be all over the country with very stufferent organizations as well. And like Lewis said before, I do think they've got a fill craft,

but of what I don't know. It doesn't necessarily mean they've got something alien. Right, Yeah, you're out, you know, dogz on now mate. So I'm not a big believer that we have a full craft for the sheer fact that we're staring at a bunch of bismuth and magnesium layers and drooling over them. So it's hard for me to believe we got a whole craft if that's where our focus is. And I also don't think we would see the craft or a recognizable part of a vehicle of any sort. I think

we would see evidence of the technology that was gleaned from studying it. And that's where Philip Corso comes in with his claims that they back engineered some aspects of the technology that were found in the forty seven crash. But I also have a lot of doubts about that because there's there's usually a backlog, a history associated with each of those technologies that comes out that can be traced back.

So to me, there there that would be the evidence, that would be the proof where we took a gigantic Tesla like leap forward in our technology and in our society. That would be, without a doubt, that came from somewhere else. We don't know how. We didn't know about it until it was here. We had a cell phone drop in Victorian times. So to me, without the evidence of the technology being trickled in, that is, without a shadow of a doubt, not backed by his historical research and

development human effort. I got a hard time believing we figured any of it out. We might have recovered some, but we haven't figured any of it out. Djay you, I am not I a Louis Alizondo. I'm not a Chris Mellon. I'm not one of these guys that's been at the highest levels of government. The only reason that you want to have me on your show, if at all, if ever, is because I know aviation and I know how the government works. I have been both a contractor to the

government and now I work for the government as an employee. Like lou did. So I know how the government thinks, how it acts, what it is likely to do likely. Notice that the word likely in given situations.

And that's how I come to this hypothesis by working on the inside and the outside on both and I know what we trust contractors with and when contractors are asked to leave the room, because I was that contractor that might have to leave the room even though I represented the government, believe it or not, as a contractor. But anyway, all that said, that's how I come

to the conclusion about the safe places that you would keep this material. And you could bring any number of scientists in Werner Werner von Brunt was brought in for a very specific purpose because he had a specific knowledge. But you don't just go and bring any citizen in and go, oh, we're gonna give this person a clearance. Unless they have an extremely special skill set that we want to leverage against the technology we're trying to acquire, then we might issue

them with clearance. And by the way, they're watching very very very closely m luis. Okay, So okay, So the first thing I'd say to the crash retrievals is, like, how many crash retrievals are there, like and and why are they crashing so much? Like you know, like if if it's tech that can can traverse time and space and makes vastest is possible, maybe in a blink of an eye, why did they crash so much?

That would be I can understand one, two, maybe three, you know, but like anything past that's like, okay, this is just dangerous. Like this technology it could reveal a whole multitude of things to a species that we may not want to interact with on that kind of level. So if they're crashing here on Earth, my question is like why so many times? But I will ask you real quick, DJ, just the backup kind

of what Andy's saying. There are spies right, yes, but now okay, okay, but then then there will be any spies if they couldn't get into a clearance on some level, maybe they are or maybe they appear to be. And I think there's sophisticated ways to sort of circumvent those things, because if there wasn't, we wouldn't have this issue, there wouldn't be this this uh movement against spies. That also, I just real quick I wanted to say, uh, hacking as well, like there's there's spies in a

digital sense. So to say that nobody knows what's going on in area fifty one, I think is a little naive. I have no I agree with you about there are spies. I'm just saying that you're asking for my opinion, and I'm giving it to you based on my experience. Got to make an in hacked, got to make an inhact NASA, right right, yeah, yeah, I mean this James time, right, Well, it's James right. Well he introduced there he I guess Field at the top. He

we got to bring our special guests. Yeah, well let me respond on this for it's cool. That's cool. So I I to back up your point. I think that the security apparatus is in place, right, so you you leverage what you've already got in place where you can. That being said, sometimes good security is sort of going the other direction. So you could have a facility that doesn't look look secure, but in fact really is

secure. It could it could appear to be, uh, you know, totally open, but there may be sub levels to it or whatnot that are actually very very tightly controlled. Uh. The private contract or access you know, is to me very you know, curious because private contractors come and go. Uh. And if you're a private employee and a private citizen, you know, you you come and go, you change careers, and even if you sign an NDA, you're gonna you know, at some point you may

jump ship to a different competitor. What if that competitor isn't right into the program, so to speak? So then do you just totally compartmentalize that knowledge and not let it influence the work that you do for your for the competitor that you now work for. There are a lot of variables to this that it seems like the complexity of it is such that if we really did have some of this stuff, I guess I'm saying, we probably would know about

it right now. And Nathan, you have more time because I talked over So No, that's cool. I'm good with that. So why don't we bring on, uh, why don't we bring on our backstage person? So I'll let you take this off screen and I'll let you introduce our good guest who's on mute I'm unmuting you hash things? All right, Hi, welcome, all right, all right, this is our spec Oh we can't see you, I know, I don't know why we cannot see you. See if you can re engage. Oh oh, there we go. We got

an avatar. No, yep, we can hear you. We just can't see you when come with them. All right, okay, we can hear you. Yeah, if you want to go out and come back in, I think Louise usually troubleshoots. Louise, please take over the troubleshooting. Yeah yeah, I mean check what camera input your your cameras on and if it's on the right one, then yeah, I would say try and back out and come back in. Let's call Melinda Leslie real quick and see what she

would recommend. Hey, while she's doing that, I want to follow up on lou Hey, lou the aircraft carriers travel the vast distances of the ocean, but it's usually the jets and aircrafts that do the crashing once they get to their destination. Could that be what we're seeing? That's fun? I

like it. It's again, it's just like, would you send probes on a planet that is hostile that you know, are incredibly fragile to maybe technologies that they display, you know, like what a general what a general of an aircraft? Carrier do that right, Yeah, and if you go to American Cosmic, you know James and Tyler uh talk about the gifting field. Right. Let's let's let's let's let's get to our very special guest. Tell us where you're where you're calling from right now, Ashley at the moment,

I am in West Georgia, England. Can I get it? Amen? Divine Daisy girl, Ashley, what's up? Actually so happy to have you join us. She's going to be on our all women's round table where all these faces right here are going to be replaced by women except for Nathan, myself and Nathan's But go ahead, Ashley, you have a question that you wanted to put out there for the group. Either one or another or everybody can take it up if they wish. It's been a very nuts and bolt

conversation. I'll say that whereas I'm more of the other side, a bit more of the wo I was just wondering, haven't done the research on the UFOs and everything? Where are you all in terms of physical and non physical being? James? You've done C five, so you have a bit of knowledge on the consciousness. Yeah, James, why don't you take that all right, so you know physical non physical. I don't think it's an either

or thing. If you want to say non physical, I don't think it's non it's there's kind of like non physical in the sense of there's no physics behind it. I think, you know, again, ultra violet rays and and things like that. Uh, technically we as humans cannot perceive that, but we have apparatus that can that can that can sense and track and monitor. So I think that, say, if we're going to talk about consciousness,

and if we're going to talk about even esp. Telepathy and these different objects that seem like energy beings or or have you know, just they display things that seem you know, where they disappear and reappear. I think eventually we are going to understand the physics of all that. And I think that all I think everything is going to fit into the realm of physics, whether you consider it as hyper spatial, like hyper spatial technologies that are able to

interface with dimensions uh, and and and therefore consciousness. So again, I don't see it as an either or question. I don't think any of it is per se magic. I think all of it will come within the realm of understanding of physics eventually, even if it takes thousands of years. And I think that a tip, you know, was looking at their their consciousness component through things like psychatronics, and we know that that deals with frequencies.

So my time's up. Anybody else want to take it or who else would like to well, I mean, I don't know. I've been diving into this. I'm still doing research and still learning about a lot of things, especially on the non physical end of things. Because when you think, I mean, at least from my experience, it was very even though it was incredible, it still seemed like there was hands behind the craft I was looking at. It seemed like a very nuts and bolout And but you know,

I've never seen metal glow on anything else. Like it was just different. But this idea, I love this idea of you know, everything is vibrating at different tones and speeds, and you know, like this table is vibrating

at a different frequency than what I'm vibrating at. And I'm sure there are a lot of things that are vibrating that we just can't see, either because we don't have the proper instruments to see them, or the proper mindset, and I don't know, you know what it's going to take to sort of break that paradigm to where we can see these things and the unexplainable eventually starts to become the understandable. But yeah, I mean, I'll give my time

to anybody else you'd like to add on that. Well, what if we get to the point where we develop AI that can synthesize some of these occurrences that are happening all around us all the time and can translate those things into

things that we can understand. So what if you know, our senses are limited, but what if we can develop sensors that can absorb this, uh, you know, the these occurrences and then translate them into things that we can't Just like you would take a night vision goggle and enhance the visual spectrum that you can see, or take an infrared camera and enhance the spectrum that you can see. You know, what what if we can do that?

I mean, I don't know if we'd want to do that. I think we do want to do that, I think, I mean, you know, the more the more we talk about this, the more it seems like, I you know, it's almost like what a Tom DeLong sometimes says in a Louelazando hintside is that you'd be somber if you really knew what the hell was going on. Like, sure, I think this is a lot a lot more complicated and just weird, unpredictable and nothing that we've ever put on

the table as far as an explanation, right. But what's interesting is we're doing this already, right, so we're already kind of cybernetic in a way. The phones we all use, the technology using right now is taking It's just that you and I cannot do on our own and our bodies. So we're we're we're taking these baby steps towards But that's the thing, right,

they're baby steps. There's not a flick of the switch on. You could see this thing that's sitting right next to you, and it's fucking crazy, you know, and you don't have the filters to understand it, you know, and it's kind of the taking a million years to get to that filter. Can I just yeah, please go ahead, Luis. You make a really good point. Most people can't, but you know, experiences would say otherwise. And that's where like I've never had that experience. I've I've had

a couple of sightings. But for people who say that they see beings literally come through walls, or people that say they've seen like ghosts at the end of their bed, and people that can have that sort of maybe those individuals have that switch or that filter that and some claim to be able to use it. I don't know so much about that, but that that, potentially, you're right is like most of us, if you want to call it humanity, can't do that, and maybe you've just got that small number of

people who do. And that's where that maybe comes in potentially. But you're right about the switch aspect of it, that we seem a long long way away that we still need to tech to allows to do a lot of the stuff we want to do. That me and Luise, if we want to have a conversation, we have to do it via phone or over this as opposed to is there a way we could do it like telepathically or you know, I could telepot and be there. Who knows where humanity goes in the

future. I mean, Dan that it was something I was going to bring up before, but you asked, where's the evidence of the tech from crash retrievals nineteen fifty two. We started using fiber optic cables. In nineteen fifty eight the computer chip was invented. So there's two of them straight off the bat. So for me, that goes with Luis's baby steps. Yeah, we don't have a full and tap craft that we can fly about ourselves, but what we got off the back of it was computer chips and fiber optic

cables to name two things. So, and the reason you know at least that crash, Why do they crash? That's something I've thought about a lot, and it's very human to think that just because it can travel a great distance or our change dimensions realities makes it infallible. And I still don't see any reason why why couldn't they crash the odd time? Because you're right,

they shouldn't be doing it that often. But if you, if just give me two more seconds, DJ, sorry, I would think if you go back to when people first started sailing across the oceans, and you could show someone a sailboat, and no doubt they crashed all the time. There was shipwrecks, they blew over in the wind, they fought each other, they fell apart, And if you showed someone now the aircraft we have and the Tesla cars we have, they would be like, wow, these things must

be incredible, the things they can do. Yeah, they still crash hundreds of thousands of times a day, Aircraft still go missing, jet engines still blow up, geese fly into stuff, and they would be like, surely not. It would just so hard for them to understand it. They would

still be so imperfect. And I just wonder, is it human to think that another race or species are base of beings wouldn't have that same problem, if we want to call it that as a as a potential theat well, the first thing that pops in my brain is a Native American on the beaches of the Eastern Seaboard getting a log from a shipwreck and going, oh, no, we have a problem. No, like you, how do you take a log back to the tribe and go, look at this. This

is unusual, this shouldn't be here. I think something's coming, and everybody's going, yeah, that's the point. Yeah, I was gonna get Dan in. I had something. I actually forgot what it was then, but so go ahead, Dan please, yeah, I'll say. I guess it depends on if you're a fan of Star Wars or Star Trek, because everything works in Star Trek. Nothing works in Star Wars, so that might But back to the consciousness connection. I'm an engineer, nuts and Baltz aer my

thing. That's what brought me into this topic. That's what I like to obsess about. But listening to Grant Cameron talk has kind of opened up my aperture and made me start to consider some additional things. And with the lou Elizondo talking about a link between quantum physics and consciousness is another layer altogether. So when I talk Andy, when I think about computers, the most important

part of computer is the smallest part, the microchip. When I think about our physical being, the most important part of our physical being is our DNA. The smaller you go, the more important the building blocks are to the final product. So I feel like we're on the cusp of starting to drill down into the quantum realm, which is going to allow us to manipulate things in a way that are going to seem like magic to us now, but after we figure it out, maybe it won't feel that way. Maybe it

will allow us to modulate time forward and backwards slightly. Which would allow us to vanish into thin air from the perception of someone that can't do that. So that's that's my end. Potentially, the only way to actually interact with the source code quantum is maybe it's consciousness. Maybe that's how we interface with the quantum levels of our work and our reality. Okay, guys, I just want to I wanted to. We got a altro Ashley. I just

want to ask people to uh follow and communicate with the divine. Uh. Is it at Divine Daisy Girl? Yeah? Yeah, Okay, say your give us your give us your social media Ashley. We want to hear you. It's at Divine Daisy Girl. It's literally just random. It's my dog's name and I just wanted to random name. That's what it is. Well, thank you, thank you so much. We're gonna we're gonna let you go and we're gonna let Andy go. But before we let Andy go,

I just want to say to you. You're really part of our initiative to not only bring female voices to this uh, but also to bring people who aren't known, who aren't content creators, don't have a podcast or YouTube, but have interesting thoughts and questions. And I think you demonstrated that here tonight. Thank you so much for joining us and bringing a great question to the group, and I must stay thank you all right, Well, thank you

Andy, thanks as well. Yeah, Andy, uh the Also you know, I want to say on on air here, congratulations to U c R Luis, Michael rather Andy Dan for being on kg R A. We really appreciate your time. Andy. We had a good U. We had a good one today and we'll continue. And it really is an honor to be able to talk with you as much as I do. No, thank you, I could have gone ours and and just I think KG and also lucky to have Luis's show and on my show, so uh yeah, not to

be vacated. But you know, it's the communities made them what they ought and those guys do a really great job over there as well, so all all the crinels of what goes into them, so so yeah, but I know it's good to be on those and listen. It's it's great to be on this as well with you guys, and seeing Nathan kind of taken off and do anything from some of the listener call ins to this is brilliant as well. So I wish I could, I say on longer and Luis.

I enjoyed the chats as well, on the crash retrieval stuff and the technic. I could have done that for hours. We'll to do it one night on the when I've got more time, anytime. I hope you enjoy you guys enjoyed the format, and we'll we'll do it again. Yeah, cheers, enjoy the rest of the show. Bye, Ashley, right, thanksving me, thank you. Okay, So I think the only person left to give a topic is Nathan. It's me, yeah, alrighty here, we

got the timer on myself here and the time or control guy. All right, So I could go on this either way with this. But the phenomenon doesn't care about human affairs. It's interest in our nukes is not of our out of concern for us, but rather for itself. If it has influenced the world's religions, as Tom DeLong has stated, it has not done so

purposefully, but rather it has simply let us do the work ourselves. Because humans are meaning making biological machines, we use the technology of language to tell simple stories in order to make sense of a complex world. Our best storytellers end up becoming priests and politicians, and throughout history we have grappled with phenomenal experiences and crafted entire worldviews in an attempt to control them. As such, if the phenomenon reveals itself to humanity on a mass scale, we should all

be very wary, because for so long it has purposefully been evasive. If it comes out on the world stage, it is doing so on its own terms. Therefore, we must decide how it can be trusted. If we are not careful, we will run the risk of locking ourselves up in a prison of our own design. We are lucky the phenomenon will not be a singular intelligence. Any additional intelligent party will allow humanity to better judge what is really going on. Regardless, we must accept that we are operating at an

asymmetrical disadvantage. And I hope I'm wrong. How can we trust the phenomenon? Wow? I just want to say before anybody talks down you guys, if you wonder why Nathan's my co host because he has brilliant thoughts like that, please go ahead, Dan. I don't know if I will personally ever be able to do one hundred percent trust them. I think it would end up being what does the mass of the population lean towards where more or less we live in a democracy, we call it that still its mob rule.

It seems like more and more every day. But that's going to be kind of where the wind blows when it comes to trusting this thing or not. There's going to people that are all on board, and there's going to be people that never are going to give it a chance. So we're going to see, just like every other aspect of humanity, there's always going to be a spectrum of responses. Do I think that we're ever gonna across the board

trust it? No? I don't see that happening at all, And I want to I want to yield my time to exo academic Damien because he is the guy I just listen to his podcast about this very thing, so it's like he's the guy of all of us that should be talking about this the most. But other than that, I personally, until I feel like what you guys have said before, until you have your experience and it touches you and you become a instead of a believer, you become a knower, then

you're just speculating on what your response is going to be. So I can say all day that I'm not going to trust him, but if I have a Chris Bledsoe type experience experience, there's gonna be a big chance, and I'm going to be like, look, she's been here since the Egyptian times and everything has gone great. Let's see, let's just let's give her a chance. So it's going to vary from just like everything else in life.

Nice DJ, Yes, sir. I just want to say the one thing that I wanted to bring out and I just wasn't able to get in there. That's interesting is the people who have had the two most prodigious, most interesting experience was Luise and Andy. And it's ironic they have these two giant shows in our community and both of them have had an experience that's very up close, very personal and was not just a five second or two second thing

like I had. So I find that very interesting. Louise, I don't know if you've ever thought about that, but you and Andy, Yeah, that's a good point anyway. I have to agree with what you said. I find that just like if this if the way we should approach UFOs is we could use the life as a metaphor that being somewhere in the middle, being somewhere in that gray where we're open to what might happen and what we might be able to glean from them. But as Dan said, I'm not

going to necessarily fully trust them. I think that can put you in a dangerous situation. Uh. And so I think that's where I would I would line up as I would be somewhere in the middle on that, and and I would be able to say that, Okay, I'm open to communication and see what you what can you prove to us? We're intelligent beings as well, we can ascertain whether or not we're being taken advantage of in some way. And then at the same time we also need to restrict what we give

them access to. M got it, James, Yeah, I actually I did a video on this on my on the Engaging the Phenomenon channel called the Phenomenon is Accountable. And what I mean by that is that the phenomenon is accountable and in a sense for our perception of it, and you know, because it's obviously advanced, you know it. We shouldn't be putting ourselves in a situation where we even need to trust the phenomenon. I mean, we

just shouldn't put ourselves in that position. There's no reason to. And again, if if the phenomenon, you know, let's you know, whether singular or plural, you know, if we're talking about different intelligences and phenomena, you know, we have to consider, you know, do they have different kind of agenda so to speak. And I think that, you know, our relationship with that has to be you know, built on communication and experience,

and that's something that's going to take time. I think it's you know, I'm open to the idea of contact. That's why I am into the C five and everything. And even oh we lost James, we'll get him back his time when he comes back. There, he goes, James Gott, please continue. Now, I was gonna say, even though I've I've had personally positive experiences, I can't you know, I can't assume that it means that, you know, the phenomenon is you know, overtly positive towards

humanity altogether. Yeah, No, there's it's it's a question. And yeah, and again we shouldn't try to just come to conclusions based on such limited information and experience that we have all together. Yeah, who can't presume to know right right, well I could. It seems like whatever the phenomenon is, it has a huge ego, huge ego, and that kind of worries me. You know, it's like this idea that it doesn't care what you

think. My biggest fear is that it's just the reflection of us. It is there is just as many opinions, there are just many hard heads, there's just as many staunch believers, there's just as much chaos and conflict. That would be my biggest fear, and that we're sort of being engaged by all of these things and there is no order, there is no permission, there is no you get a choice. And I think that's terrifying. Yeah,

that's terrifying. It's even worse than you know, this idea we're fish in and ocean and when we get caught and thrown back, like do we go back and talk to the other fish about it? Like, it's even worse than that. It's like you don't get a choice. You're in the net and it's gonna skin you and mess with you and throw you back up in some cases as a carcass. I don't like again, Like I don't

know if we want to know. I think it's almost like, you know, do you want to take the red pill, the blue pill and the end or do you just, you know, just eat your steak and drink your wine and and love your family and just just stick to that, you know. That would be my biggest fear. I think we all do want to know, because that's why we've engaged with the Phenomenon to use James's moniker,

So we all want to know. We want to know. Otherwise the people that don't want to know are eating steak, they're having barbecues and like, who cares a bunch of wackos talking about UFOs and we're and we are those wackos. Yeah, but we're not wackos. No, because because as as Lou said, it's not a question of whether or not they're they're here. We now have to figure out why they're here, what they're doing, what they want. But that we're way he said, we're way past that.

Or even like when mitchew Kaki says it's on it's now in the government to disprove they're real. Yeah, I wish I had a recording of of Lou saying Mitcheukaku because we could just like do it like then Howard Stern show playing like I love when he said that. Mitchuk anyway, all right, closing statements, everybody, Let's see Dan do a one minute closing statement. I don't know what to talk about except thanks for having me on. It's good to see all these faces again. Nice to meet you for the first

time. James and Andy. I know you had to cut out early, but nice to meet you in person. I've enjoyed listening to everybody's content that they've been producing. So it's been a fun ride over the last let's call it twenty seventeen and on. Let's hope for another continuing wild ride going forward, and just make sure that we all remain humble when people approach us that are not knowledgeable as we are on this topic, that we don't just dismiss

them outright because they are not on level with us. We need to be the teachers moving forward, the educators moving forward as best we can. And I hope that we all understand that this is kind of the downer side of this conversation. This is a temporary thing for us. I feel like there are going to be people to pick the torch up that are better. They're better looking than us, let's face it, guys, as well as better

video content creators, more thorough researchers. When when the general public catches onto this. So this is a moment in time that we're sharing together as a community that will never be repeated again. So I appreciate it. I'm glad to be able to share with you guys and the rest of the UFO Twitter community and everybody out there. So just thank you for having me on.

It is James, Yeah again, Reno, really, thanks for having us on, Thanks for putting together this panel, Thanks for you know, helping continue the discussion. Now, I'd like to say, you know, although I guess you could say humanity is being presented with this you know question. Yeah, I'm optimistic, but I like to look at it as an opportunity and even as an invitation of sorts. So I think that, you know, this problem can can be a great, you know, obstacle for humanity

to overcome together hopefully. Uh. And I think it, you know, presents a tremendous paradigm shift, you know, to quote Christina Gomez from Shifting the Paradigm, Uh, you know, in so many different ways, and so many different fastests and in ways that we can't even technically perceive currently,

and it's almost like the the next phase of humanity. So, you know, I like to acknowledge an honor and appreciate you know, everybody who's in a sense put their neck out there, uh, talking about the subject and researching and and and sharing, you know, what they think to be valid, true information and uh, you know, carrying the torch. So thank you everybody. Thank you, Jane Louise, I just think thank you for having me. It was fun. It was It was a real blast,

man. I mean, yeah, those guys said it best. I've gotten really nothing past that to articulate other than thank you, thank you. Yeah, it was a lot of fun. Nice. Yeah. I mean, this is an important conversation and I'm glad that we're having it, and we need to do more of it. Right. We kind of tend to look at this format I think in through the lens of sort of marketing or entertainment, but in truth and particularly in the day, in today's day, Uh,

this is a format that allows us to connect. And connection is where we're going to solve this problem. Uh. You know, community is where we're going to solve this problem. I was listening today to the the Lex Fret Fredman podcast with the Riza. It was really interesting. I highly recommend it. If you like that podcast, check out that episode. But one thing that came to mind listening to that amazing artist is that art is really

this kind of it's an it's an it's an alchemy. You know, art is taking the things that we know about our world and it's refashioning them in ways that are very personal, that lead to you know, sort of beliefs and ideas and change the trajectory of our civilization. And that's kind of what we are doing with the with the crumbs that we have from the phenomenon. And you know, is that is that guided or not? I don't know.

And maybe that's not the point. The point is that we still have to figure out how we're going to do this together, and I think we need to not lose sight of that as we interact with each other, either on forums like this or on UFO Twitter. But so grateful to have all of you guys on and let's keep keep doing this. Yeah, so now you guys can clearly see why Nathan's my co host right. I mean, he's just so, he's just so smart. I love it. He's everything. I'm not so so, but no, I mean, you guys know,

I have a very small contribution to make in the community. I don't have a lot of areas where I can offer something other than to just have a forum for discussion, whether that's here or on Twitter spaces. My area of expertise is like that. As I've told Nathan, it's like that cheesecake and the healthy person at the party goes up and takes the smallest liver and puts it on their plate, and you're like, oh wow, that's like a quarter of an inch thick. That's kind of like what I can contribute

with any degree of expertise at all. The rest of it, I'm just listening. I'm learning from people who are intelligent in these many other facets of the phenomenon. And it is wonderful to be able to connect with all of you on different mediums that we communicate on, and I communicate with you on

different mediums. But the fact that I'm able to do that so I can get ideas, throw out some ideas, have them thrown back at me, have me rethink those ideas and get a greater understanding of what we're dealing with. And only, as Nathan said, together is how we're going to all figure this out. Nobody is going to be the singular hole that's going to figure that out. I also wanted to just ask you quickly before I said goodbye, what did you think of the timed format? It was cool.

I wish I could make it a little smaller, like a tiny time or tinier timer. The way share content works, it kind of prevented me from doing that, but I thought it was kind of nice, kept a little little snappy, you know. Yeah. I think we tend to hone in on one particular topic and it seemed like it was crash retrieval this time. So it almost seems like it should be a little instead of random, a little bit more focused, just to get everybody prepared, because I think we

all have a lot to say about this. But that's a great point, like the short concise responses format. Mm hmm, James, we're taking crash retrieval for action for crash Retrieval week in response to your request. And obviously that was the hot button topic, but it wasn't the only topic. But what did you think of the timed format? It was it was good, I do better off the time. Thing like that just personally, but that's

just my my own nature. I'm kind of just sporadic, So any any conditions like that personally for me are restricting to to how I interact personally. That's just my own You've been invited on for you could have an hour and a half of just saying, James dying Doley. We've put that out to you, right, yeah, I tried, right, I'm here, Yeah, to do your own exact absolutely, James, I and Doley for an hour and a half and he can talk for the entire hour and a half.

But what what this was born from is I think Louis saw when when Andy was on with Danny Sheh and he talked for like most of their time. So I was like, oh, let's make a timer so that way nobody can do that. Yeah yeah, well no, the same thing happened to me with Stephen Bassett on the first Big Phone Home. Right, he cool, you know, he has better things to say. But everybody, I'm just saying I like it personally, Like as a viewer, I like

it. But for me, the way I operate. I'm like, I'm like, I'm going to be more like off the cuff, so like that's I mean, again, that's just me. I'm like in a quantity, Yeah, well you're you're such a I mean when you're when you're spreading the thoughts of the research, in the in the stuff that you've read and the people that you've worked with, it's a it's a much bigger plane than a

Cessna. You know, this is like a crying to land and you mean to give them the room to to tell the story and give you the context, whereas this is more you know, just like make your point, you got a counterpoint, you got something to add. Cool, it's quick, it's movie. It's it's just different. But uh, James, you got to come on the show this week so we could we could pump up crash retrievement Crash Retrieval Yes, oh yeah, and yeah, I was just thinking

like, yeah, we definitely got to do one with Andy Man. He He's like he's there, man, I love the ideas he's talking about. And I know I think Melinda Leslie is is down for Crash Retriever week. I was trying to get I was trying to get in contact with Don Smidt, who was huge on the Roswell case, although there's obviously some controversy there.

Richard Dolan is in Ross Culturt is in UFO, Jesus is in Danny Silva, Joe Mersia, and I know oh Sean Roush, Witness Citizen, Benny Adams at Disclosure Team, and I believe Priscilla Quantum which and Artemis Prime. I think they're all into. Uh So, there's a lot, oh man, there's there's so much, you know, that can go on within that realm. Yeah, I like I said our invitations out there, Nathan and I have said it on text, we'll say it right here live.

We would love to have you on for an hour and a half to just well, yeah, all of you. But yeah, I mean Dan's been invited on a number of times. Luis has been on twice. Dan's been on once or twice, twice and twice and James, we would love to have you on, and that's that's an open invitation, but I want to make sure you know you're invited. Yeah. Sure, I like to have all you guys on my channel too, you know, and especially Dan.

This is the first time I'm speaking to Dan, I really love how he presents and articulates information, like he says in a way where I'm like, that's solid. So I really appreciate that. That's an attention, clear, concise, to the point, and easy to absorb. That's my goal inside baseball. Dan was riding in the car with me. We were coming. We went to the air base. We went looked around the airbase, we

went shopping a little bit. We went to have lunch, and he said, man, I don't know if I should be in there with these heavyweights like James I and Dolly and Andy. And I said, you one hundred percent belong in this conversation with anybody in the UFO community period. Yeah, absolutely appreciate it. Guys, this conversation doesn't belong to anybody, definitely unless

your doctor Stephen Greer. All right, uh, but on behalf of my co host Nathan DJ Sam Marco for calling all being saying peace out, one love and we'll see you down the road. Take care, guys,