Calling All Beings, y'all. Yeah, welcome back to Calling All Beings. I'm your host DJ. Super duper excited because my brother, Sergeant Peter Murphy decided to come on and explore this thought experiment that I did last night. We're gonna get to explore that with the professional What would have happened if the police rolled up on thirty four Fairview and it was a random citizen's home of whom they were not familiar. That is what's going on. That is the
purpose of this episode. And thankfully I talked to this gentleman this evening. Hello, Phoebe. You know we're gonna say hid everybody in the chat, but so let me just say hello before we bring on our special guests. He was at a standout for Karen Reid today up in Massachusetts. I'm gonna have Hey, what's up, Miss Shorty? Gonna be on this show Saturday with True Crime Kangaroo, Sean McDonough, Nurse Kim Mas a meeting. We're gonna get into it.
But I wanted to Hi, Ah from Charleston, South Carolina. What's up, Marjorie, Ernie, Ernie Birdie, How are you welcome? Queen? I welcome some of you. Pilgrim I saw Pilgrim in
there anyway, welcome everybody. And so I talked to this gentleman today and I asked him if he would go through this thought experiment with and it'll be It'll be edifying for both me and you because I'll find out if what I suppose is correct, and hey, Julie, and I will find out if what I thought was not correct, because Peter knows what would have happened if police rolled up to thirty four Fairview and this was a random citizen. This is gonna be a quick show. We will be
finished and done within one hour tonight. We know that our brother Mike Crawford of the Young Jerks is gonna be on, Hey what's up? Never forget nine one one, That's what's up homegirl. I don't know if you're a New Yorker or not. I am, and so I don't know how long they're going. We're only going to go an hour. But Mark Bedrow, our friend, Peter's friend, my friend, and the Young Jerks are going to be on around
the same time. Hey what's up? Scott? Welcome back. So so with that, let's get started with Peter, we'll get into it. We're gonna be done within an hour, and then we'll be tuning into the young jerks as well. So without further ado.
Party people put those hands together for retired can'ton p D Sergeant Peter Murphy.
Yeah, thank you, thank you, DJA, thank the fans. I could I could hear it all in the background.
Yeah, wait, where's my hold on? I got some applause here somewhere. Where's my applause?
Oh?
Here it is, it's down the end. Okay here Sergeant Peter Murphy. Alright, all right, all right, thank you, Thank you, Peter. So you heard you and I talked about young jerksys tomorrow night. Oh okay, if young jerksy is tomorrow night, then here we are tonight. I thought they were. I thought it was tonight. I think the young jerks. Thank you. So you're a mod obviously, Thank you, Miss Shorty. I appreciate it, love, and I'm really looking forward to hearing
your views. Oh just to let you know for the roundtable, since Miss Shorty is listening, So the cab round table, and I'm going to start. Thank you, Phoebe PHOEBMC. What the Cab round table. Is this. You come to the round table with either a topic, a question, or a hypothesis one of those three. What you bring will be you will present your topic, hypothesis or question to the group, will go in a circular format and everyone will have a chance to react to what your topic is, and
then we'll move on to the next person. They'll present their topic. So then we'll have a free for all after that. But to start off with, everyone will bring a topic, question, or hypothesis to the round table. So anyway, that's so, Missorty, be prepared to have a topic that you want everybody to address. Anyway, let's get it kicked off, Peter. So, my brother, we spoke today. Uh, let me Peter and
Sergeant Murphy. I'm I'm ready for my uniform inspection. So so we spoke today, Peter about what this thought experiment is that I did by myself. Hey, Lily's in the house. That's our other another one of our guests for next
Saturday to come to Garo Lily. Anyway, So, Peter, what we spoke about was if we were to assume that John O'Keeffe and I think it's fairly objective at this point that John O'Keeffe was called out for a fight, and he didn't want to look like a woos for lack of a more descriptive term, that some people associate with felines, and therefore he wanted to tell Karen to take him over to that house so that he could show that he wasn't afraid that I think with the
finger point and the text message, the subsequent text message, I think it's fairly clear that he didn't go over He wasn't hanging out with those guys with the I know we love this Charney. Yeah, definitely, Julie, I think it's fairly clear that he didn't go over there. He wasn't hanging out with them with the bar. He certainly didn't want to spend his free time with those guys. He went over there for one reason, and that was to show that he wasn't afraid to turn up there.
So now with that, in the morning, his body is found by Karen Reid and Carrie Roberts and Jen McCabe and then nine one ones called and then we have fire ems and police show up. So if they didn't know the owner of the home and they had to call and find out, or someone had to tell them, Yeah, the owner of the home is person X, who is not a police officer, nor was for the purposes of
this discussion. The other person in the house who is alleged to have been involved in this, Brian Higgins, also was not a dah in our law enforcement in any way. So with that take it away, what happens next?
Well, I think I think initially if we go to really the start of the whole incident, which would have been the nine to one one call, I would imagine that the police dispatcher and or FD hearing.
The very bloodshilling, ice cold verbiage from Jen McCabe about a body man on the lawn.
You know, it turned out we know the connection there, but just saying a man on the lawn. I took a lot of nine one one calls over the thirty years that I worked, Well, we didn't have nine to one one for thirty years, but a lot of calls, emergency calls. And I don't think I ever took even just a scratch or a boo boo on the knee. Never did I ever hear such a cold, almost calculating verbiage about a guy laying on a lawn. I just
so anyway it started there. If I was probably working, I would have dispatched the whole shift, which probably at the time was four offices on the street, which unfortunately at the time and they still my canton runs a little lean, so they have four offices on the street. They do not have a desk patrolman. They have a desk sergeant. So the sergeant is committed to the desk, takes the calls for the most part on the midnight alone and dispatches and if there's a serious incident or
a need from patrolman requesting a supervisor. Now you're to pull one of the patrolling off the street, leave a sector. There's four sectors in town DJ leave a sector open, bring a patrolling in off the street, and then you suit up and start to roll in the direction of whatever area or sector you needed in. So's there's a time to lay there. But I think the you know, I think the average person police officer, skill set trained, would have said, what the hell is going on with
that phone call? There's a guy laying on the lawn. It just didn't have the emotional, sensational, you know, feeling to it.
But anyway, can I use a word. Can I use a word because it was also was in trial when they spoke of Chloe the dog. It was disassociative. She wanted to disassociate, just like Brian Albert kept referring to Chloe is it. And I don't know a person that has a dog that even likes them a little bit that refers to their dog as an it. It's either a him or her. It's very disassociative, Jennifer's terminology, right.
So you know, again, logistically starting at the first base at ground zero here, that would that would raise some eyebrows, I think to the average person taking the call, especially, I believe a sogeant who took that call, working from there. First police officer on scene would have and should have probably taken information from the three women on scene. One of them was hysterical and out of the car. Another one I believe was out of the car I was Kerry Robinson. I think jen was still in the car
making some phone calls. And anyway, I think at that point the officer on sen should have been able garnish enough information that he or she would have been able to make a quick assessment. Coupled with the information that was provided immediately unseen visually as well, that the something wasn't in sequence here, something didn't fit you had, there
were some inconsistencies of the crime scene you had. You had the guy, the man laying there without a hat, without winter clothing, without a winter jacket a Philly light leisure sweatshirt on. I believe, one sneaker, no hat, I don't believe any gloves. Evidently some trace blood in the snow droplets. Call it what you want, very obvious contusions. Hematoma to the face, the orbital aary of his eyes, swelling, laceration across the nose, not a major one, but obvious.
See his face appeared to have sustained some some injuries, perhaps from a fight that would have been I think the read on anybody that arrived on that scene, police officer are otherwise. Does that make sense?
So far?
Do you have any questions on where we are right now? No?
I mean, given with all that knowledge, the sort of the the premise we're working off of is that the the everything is as you said it was. But what would be their Now what I'm trying to get to here is what would be the next behaviors? What would
the police be doing next after that. So, now that you saw what you just saw, you either you they told you who this person was and you and so if you can get into the mind because some of these guys were junior officers when you left, right, these guys had just come in, right, So can you amalgamate between what you would do and what you think they would have done as the final solution if this was a Rando citizen that they did not know who owned the home and they came upon the scene, saw those
injuries to Officer O'Keefe, and what would be the next thing that would happen relative to the homeowner? Or you know, you call the shift down all four units.
Right, you bring in as many resources police resources as you can for what appears to be a very seriously injured person that may or may not survive the ordeal or the injuries. Probably with that call you could have transmitted to the fire department on the nine to one one relay. Look at, guys, there's a couple of inches of snow, you know, the fire captain going down on scene as a couple of inches of snow. We don't know what we got, but try to maintain and preserve
the crime scene. Try not to put thirty six sets of footsteps all around the crime scene. See what you can do, Maybe even take a picture. Everybody's got a cell phone. Maybe even take a quick picture of what you're coming upon in case there are tire tracks or tell tale footprints that would lead to a helpful investigation
down the road. That would be the ideal situation. I'm not sure at six o'clock, coming off of midnight everybody had that throught process going DJ Budd, it would have been a good situation to ask the fire department please do what you can to preserve the footprints and the two inches of snow that's on the ground, because there would be nothing more important invaluable in any crime investigation
than having a couple of inches of snow. I mean, you're going to get your foot patterns, tread pattens on shoes, sneakers. You could use a ruler. I know that's thinking a way beyond I guess there were no rulers at the scene that day. But there's a lot you could have done on the scene and the offices could have done as soon as more help arrived and using utilizing the fight apartment. I mean they're trained somewhat in crime scene preservation.
They know what we have to do when we arrive if they get there first, so we could have worked cooperatively on the radio and maybe got something preserved or at least less compromising of the scene, and then we'd work from there. So you'd have all boots on the ground from the police department. People would be looking around trying to make some observations. I think the apparent inconsistencies of the person on the ground, the individual on the ground clothed in the manner or not clothed in the
manner that we just described, would raise some flags. And I think the next thing you do right away is you would again take pictures of any footprints in the snow, and you would immediately go to the house and knock on the door to see if there were perhaps more victims. Was there a big fight inside? Was is this gentleman laying on the ground got a knife in his back? Does he have a hole in his back from a bullet?
What the hell went on? If you don't know these people, there could be you know, innocent people injured or needing medium medical attention inside that house. At the very least that would that would certainly have been something to do again to a protective suite, make sure there's no more victims, would be victims laying around outside backyard. My opinion, you don't need a warrant to go in the backyard to see if there's more bodies interesting.
Interesting. Okay, so you don't. But at what point do you make the determinator? First of all, thank you, miss Surety for the blessing. We really appreciate the super chat and we will get to all of those where I missed it. We will get to all the super cats and so forth at the end of the show and address each one. So thank you for any blessing that
that anybody feels compelled to. And we love you anyway, whether you can or you can, Okay, Peter, So now do you get to the point now where you have identified the victim, you are starting to cordon off the crime scene and see how you can document what you're looking at that it's a it's a very difficult situation with ems, fire police plus footprints of Karen potentially Carrie Roberts all around the scene, et cetera, et cetera, and then you know, actually there could be potential foot tracks
of somebody who may have placed John there that are maybe deep, you know, deeper down beneath the surface of of all the snow that fell. But all that said, you know, and you wouldn't be able to really rake that up and clean because if you did, it would be very obvious to investigating officers that those tracks were covered, whether it was with a snowshovel or something like that. And it also would look very suspicious at that time of night. But but that that notwithstanding, that would be
on ring camera videos as well. I'm curious, now, at what point do you get to decide you're going to approach the door to see where the homeowner is because the homeowner whom you may now know who the homeowner is, because women at the scene Carrie Jen Karen would have said, well, the owner, the homeowner was with us and invited us to an after party here after the waterfall Rando citizen named Brian Smith. So so what happens now as far as approaching the home.
No, that's a very good question, valid question, and I think at that point usually a situation like that, once once you get you know, officers on scene, it's usually
the senior officer or intoor the supervisory officer. But in this case, I believe it was Officer Sarah, who had twenty seven years on the job, so he kind of would be the lead patrolman on the scene at the time, and it would be he that would perhaps, you know, give out some some orders, some commands, say look at you go there, you go here, DJ you go in the house, knock on the door, see if everybody's all right, Ask if they'll invite you in, start to gather some information from those people.
All right, So I'll play the homeowner and you're the police officer.
So all right, so I ring the doorbell, knock on the door, say, sir, are you aware that there's a almost mortlly wounded injured gentleman out on your lawn? No? That have you seen all the lights? Have you been out there? Do you know who would is? What happened? How they got there?
No, we were sleeping. I had no idea who is.
It you were sleeping? You slept through the sirens. It appears, perhaps from what we saw or what we've gotten from the the e mts, that this gentleman, because we accessed his clothing and his body in the ambulance. We checked to see if there's any injuries. Could there have been a dog in the house with a dog prints on the outside? You start to try to develop some information DJ that from you.
Yeah, I he never came in the house, so I don't know.
Okay, Well, he never came in the house, and you didn't know he was You didn't know he was out on the lawn. Okay, it doesn't appear to us. That doesn't appear to us. We don't know how we got there, and we're hoping you can give us some information. Are there people in the house right now that may need police or medical attention? Can you describe how many people in the house? Can you give us your name, your information? Well, how many people are in the house.
My name's Brian Smith. It's just me, my wife and my son here. Now. There was you know, up to ten people here last night, but he wasn't one of them, so he never came in the house.
Okay. Could I please request you, sir, to have your family members that are president in the house come downstairs so I can speak to them. Oh, by the way, sir, would you mind if I take a protective suite through your house? Into your basement and upstairs, just to see and make sure there are no blaring inconsistencies of what
you're telling me. In the fact that this gentleman out on the lawn looks like he was in a fight, and now you've just told me that there were twelve people at your house last night.
I mean, do you have a warrant?
No, I don't, sir, I don't have a warrant right now. I'm asking for some cooperation. If you're willing to give it, that's great. If you're not, I still would like to have you bring those people forward so I can talk to them and confirm that they're all right. If you're not willing to get me give me a warrant or authorization consent, then I will apply for a warrant right away. There's just too many inconsistencies and that gentleman laying out
there on the lawn and your stories. You haven't come out, you didn't hear anything going on, you slept through it. I don't know. We've got a problem here, and I'd like you to give me consent to go through your house. If you don't have anything to hide, what should you be worried about?
I'm sorry, officer. I'm just I'm in a habit of it's my home and if you want to come in and see it, you're going to have to have a warrant. But I I'm you know, and I'll get my lawyer on the phone. But no, I'm not just going to allow you in the house. So if you come back with a warrant, yeah, then that's what you're going to need if you want to get in the house.
Okay, Well, for now, let's just have the family members that you've mentioned in the house. Let's have them come down here and we'll sit everybody on the couch and see if we can come up with a solution to what's going on out there. And we'll wait for more medical updates from the personnel that are attending to the victim.
And at that point, I would I would ensure that as the victim is boarded and put into the ambulance, that a police officer would accompany the victim to the hospital for the obvious reasons, they could make observations of the of the injuries and get updates from the medical personnel as they remove clothing, cut clothing off, and if
there's injuries that were not seen. And now at this point you're probably going to obviously see his right arm and forum that are going to have apparent lacerations and puncture wounds. What you could, you know, start to ask it the homeowner, Hey, what's going on with that? Do you own a dog? This guy's all looks like he's all chewed up. What's your dog's named? Do you have a dog? Yeah? Over there on the kitchen floor from where I'm standing.
Yeah, I have I have a dog. I have dog Chloe. Yeah, you know, female German shepherd. And I'll get my wife, Honey, come down. The officer wants to ask you some questions, so, you know, get her down there. Thank you very much, Tiger for the tip. We greatly appreciate it. If you end up having a Julie has some questions too, so we got to get we gotta get Julian. Julia is our cab chat moderator, so we got to get her
in there. Uh so uh, we'll break character for a second, Peter, and then we'll go we're doing good in the I think we could have taken acting over a Dean College, so we could have taken dramatic arts instead of law. Enforcement. So all right, So was Chloe ever outside out front alone or accompanied for audies? They had a fenced in backyard, is when I know Jules. I don't know if Peter knows something else. And I think Julia had an other
question up there. Do you know anything about Chloe and how they kept her or anything or.
You're speaking to me, yes, sir, okay. I believe over the course of the last year and a half, I've I've heard that Chloe enjoyed the fenced in backyard and that they would let Chloe out to do business, perhaps before retiring for the evening and so forth. Chloe, I believe, had a history of not socializing well with other dogs and people, and I don't believe they made made a habit of letting Chloe run loose or anything which would
be a violation of Lisa or out front. So I think Chloe was pretty much confined to the to the backyard. And and and again, well, I'd like to see Chloe, like to see your family that they're safe, and.
I just wanted and with still we're still.
In my mind, I'm still working on getting consent or a reason for exit and circumstances to go through that house absolutely for contraband. I'm looking for bodies, I'm looking for blood, I'm looking for baseball bats. I'm looking for anything that could have caused the trauma to that gentleman that's laying out on the lawn. Maybe where is other sneaker in his hat?
Might be three leaders of blood, as you pointed out in the last show, Uh, adroitly so. Julie's asking has Knton how has Canon handled similar historic person dying on a lawn? And oh boy, do we have a mister Casey who died on a lawn and was not found until later, Julie. The answers, Yes, it happened, not that long ago, was it? Craig case What was his name, Craig Casey?
That's correct.
Yeah, So yes, there is precedent for this, Julie. I don't want to go into it now because that is a whole story in itself. But yes, there was a man tragically found dead on a lawn in Canton that the police did not initially found, and then found him after the factor a citizen called in and said, did you guys know there was a body here? So yes, Craig Casey, all right, Peter so now, so do they have to allow you in to interview the family or can they keep you at the front door?
Again, I would stay at the front door, I'd ask the competent unless you have exigent circumstances that it were immediately apparent, you would try to get consent. Would make it a lot cleaner as you go through the morning, or go through the interview again. If if somebody's not going to invite you in, it raises all sorts of issues immediately, and okay, you'd work from there. You'd try to navigate and get as some develop as much as you could so that either they'd be consent or or
you know, you'd have again circumstances. I think, I think if the police officer had gone in the ambulance, because that is basically a continuation of the crime scene as they cut clothing off to assess injuries and found the head laceration at some point soon into the intervention, that there would have been some obvious reasons looking at that arm to go further is to where's the dog and what's going on here? And you know, if you didn't know that that guy, you didn't know who he is,
and he never came in the house. Are you telling me that you let the dog out, you know, to do its business and he attacked the dog? He or she Chloe attacked that man on the lawn. Did you see that happen? Did you hear browels? Did you see the bites of their dog paws all around where his body was? You know, you could start to shoot some holes whatever alibi the homeowner may have if they have some complicity in the incident.
So I think what we should do now is press the fast forward button and we're going to I'm going to ask you some questions that are going to lead us to the next scenario where you and I will act this out and have some fun with this. So, how long would it have taken you to get a How long would it have taken you to get a warrant to get in the house?
Hosts? Long to get a war.
Cost long to get a warrant, to get.
Long to get a warrant. Yeah, I knew you'd like that. Yes, well, with a little probable cause, speaking to the clerk of the magistrate at six thirty in the morning, you know, an experienced officer with some observations and updates from the medical staff and the ambulance of the dog. The gentlemen had dog bites in his arm what appeared to be or at least had been in some kind of hand
again combat and or dog bites. I would tend to believe that it'd be a consideration to give you a warrant to go in that.
House within how many hours?
Do you think as soon as you can reach the magistrate. I mean, they'll usually say, you know, send a cruiser up, or we'll fax it to the station. It could have happened within a half an hour of forty five minutes.
Oh my god. Okay, So everybody out there that's in the chat right now, there's a few hundred of you watching right now. Peter has said within and half potentially within a half an hour to forty five minutes. Given the circumstances. You have a Boston police officer that was found alive on the lawn but then was pronounced dead. Do we know that the time of death when he was was It was obviously not in the ambulance. It would have been after he was received at er.
My understanding on that is that there is some sort of a protocol that they cannot pronounce a person deceased until the body temperature is brought up to a certain elevated temp. And I believe his body temperature was don't quote me, it was in the low eighties eighty degrees
or something. And that would have been another reason to send a police officer because in the ambulance there was clothing, there was evidence, and there could have been a dying declaration had they swaddled him in enough warm clothes or he did insulated blankets that I mean, you don't know, but he conceivably could have had a dying declaration once his body temp came up and indicated who was responsible for that. Not saying that he was. I'm just posturing
that as some scenario that could have conceivably happened. I've worked on cases before war where there were mortally injured people and we sent the police officer all the way in the Boston to I think it was Boston Medical Center Road with the victim in case the victim regained consciousness, and or to collect evidence and take notes and comments from the attending EMS people, part of the crime part of the crime team, except it's in an ambulance going somewhere.
Yeah, so we didn't. We don't know the time of death, but we can assume. But you could you have gotten the warrant from Canton p Ed even before the state, the mass State Police got involved. Could you have gotten the warrant just based on him being mortal, you know, potentially mortally wounded on the lawn and unresponsive. Would that have been enough to get the search warrant without his actual uh uh, you know, him being pronounced dead. Sorry to put it that way. I don't know.
No, that's okay, I'll try to work through it with with my knowledge, I would say that the reason for the warrant is to garnish evidence of the crime. And the crime appeared to be, you know, it seemed to take on almost immediately in some people's eyes, more than a motor vehicle accident. It appeared to be an assault
and battery, so an act of violence. So again, going back to what I've said so far with you already, at some point you can argue that there could have been other victims in the house or out back, and maybe you know, at some point they learned through ID or a wallet that was in his pocket and maybe a badge or an ID that this guy was a police officer. You know, maybe at some point I ask you what do you do for work and you tell me you're a Boston police officer in charge of a
fugitive apprehension unit. That would obviously lead more or questions in my mind as to whether or not this was some sort of a retaliatory hit on the house and this guy got in the way. You know what I'm saying, There's a lot of things that you would begin to to ask questions about as to what's going on here. But okay, so on the warrant issue, Just on the warrant, as you clear, again, you're looking for fruits or instrumentalities
of the crime. So whether he had just passed and you know, was deceased, or whether he was just severely beaten and unconscious, it still appeared that based on the three inch or two and a half inch laceration in the back of his skull, the facial wounds, hematoma, what appeared to be dog bites.
Yep, the defensive hand wounds in.
His hands, blocking blocking ye blacking blues or punch fractures, just just the totell you of the circumstances there was you know, there was evidence that this was just not somebody that fell out of the bay of a C one thirty landing and Lower Airport.
All right, So that's the stitchback. So first of all, I want to say thank you to Sarah Sarah in Shank and Harrah. I love. I don't know how you came up with that name, Sarah. You're gonna have to tell me on on Twitter, DM or whatever on Twitter. I would love to hear about that. Conversation is awesome. Thank you so much for that. First of all, for your kindness and blessing, and for the comments about Peter and myself. I know he's a great mind with me
and I think it's still in question. So anyway, thank you very much. If you would, as miss Shorty said, if you would please hit the like button on your on your YouTube, we would greatly appreciate that. As she said, for the algorithm, we're hoping this is going to be, uh the first year that we can pay for all the software that we used to make the show. Peter saw me getting a Canva tutorial to make the artwork
for the show from money. Nathan Are, the creator of Calling All Beings and my partner who started the show with me with there's four of us, and so we use about four pieces of software to make the show. And this year might be the first one where we're gonna get it paid for, which is gonna be awesome anyway.
So so, Peter, so we're going to assume that we could get that warrant, and now we're I'm going the reason I'm gonna fast forward is I'm going to assume that with the warrant, if you got in there with your some sort of a CSI team, they would not have been able to clean up three leaders of blood and it would have been discovered and that would have basically been been the beginning of the end of the question of whether or not he was hit by a
car or whether the injuries occurred inside the home, and then that part of the case is over. Is that a fair assumption on my part?
It certainly is. Yeah, it certainly is. And you know, I would suggest to you that it's a it's a cumulative process of building probable cause to do an immediate search or exigence circus you know, declare exigen circumstances or something along those lines, protective sweep, and you know, if there were chairs knocked over or you know, my observation was that it looked like there was some even an odor of cleaning fluids, a bleach for somebody who slept
through all the excitement out in the front line. What did they have a clean up party, you know, with with mops and stuff after after everybody left at one thirty, they clean the foot Well, I'm going on the generic side that you know, did everybody get a mop and not everybody but the homeowners a mop and a pail and wipe the snow spots and dirty shoemarks off the tile floor in the kitchen? Was that bleach coming from
somewhere else? And you know you'd work diligently to get to get into that basement or through the house to make sure there's no other victims. And depending on mannerisms, training and experience, you know you'd roll with that and and do the best you can. If if it ends up in a case law Supreme Court and it gets thrown out or some of that evidence gets thrown out,
well so be it. You did the best you could, and you you gotta you got you did get a warrant eventually through probable cause and testimony or Affidavid and off you go.
So so the case ends. The case ends there against Karen Reid right there, so we can so we have to move on to the next investigative steps to that places him inside the home. So what would be there in terms of So let's go into the interview room. And now we've got uh, we've got the two Brians that are in there, although their last names have been changed to protect the guilty. So we have the two. We have the two. Now that we've got the warrant, we have got probable cause to bring in all of
the suspects. And they're all in separate rooms. So you've got the video because they said they were at the waterfall, and you got the video at the waterfall. So can I can play one of the Brians and you're the interrogator and we're in the We're in an interrogation room. And now the Mass Day troopers are involved, so it's Trooper X uh is the one who is doing the interviews. Uh, And I'm I'll be whichever Brian that you want.
Okay, So just can you give me a approximate timeline on this is to where we are on this interview stage right now?
So now you've got you've got all this. So what if you had all that CSI stuff. I guess I don't know that you would necessarily, but you're still gonna get the waterfall video, and you're still gonna get the ring camera videos because they're gonna say he never entered the house. So you're gonna get all those ring camera videos, including the one from then. I guess Lieutenant kell Her at the time. Was he lieutenant or deputy chief at the time?
One hundred percent. I believe he was a lieutenant at the time of the incident on January.
Okay, so he's then Lieutenant kell Her. You're gonna get his his video, and it's gonna show John O'Keefe exiting the car and with the angle, show the front door from if you if you can kind of a picture where his home is. Would do you think that that video would have shown him actually getting to the front door from the angle?
I can only speculate on that that depending on the angle of his camera, which was apparently philly high above the door jam from what I saw in pictures that it would have it would have projected out considerably towards the street. I can't I've been speculating totally. If I said to you that it would have covered the front lawn or the driveway or the mailbox without you know,
without actually seeing what he had for a setting. And but I would say this that if we're developing, you know, trying to implement some preservation of the crime scene, which would be our major concern once we get there, did be enough boots on the street with our own shift, and I would have I would have or somebody should have at that point the officer in charge at the time,
which I believe would have been the sergeant. But however he did communicate at some point with the lieutenant across the street to get the infamous solo cups and the stop and shop bag. I guess so somebody should have taken command in the administrative level command staff and call the chief and probably called the Border Selectment Chairman of the Selectman and say, look, we have a serious incident.
Just keeping you apprized of what we got. You know, we've got to bring I'm going to bring the whole department in. I'll recall totally everybody to the police station until this, you know, case either runfolds or we get more information. We need to go door to door to get ring camera. We got to go to waterfall get there footage because the homeowner has told us that they were there and at c F. McCarthy's, perhaps before they
got to the thirty four FIVU. So there would have been a multitude of information should have been you know, started to be looked at, and you would have needed a lot of personnel to do that. So I recall of all the personnel to the police department, have a briefing. Chief. Deputy chief should have been at the at the police station, I would suggest, and also the lieutenant across the street could have taken command of the scene until Lieutenant Gallagher
got there. There's there's just a as somebody think said, if there was anything that you ever wanted to do in a crime scene that to make it totally unacceptable, they did it. Oh I didn't do it?
Do you do you? Oh? This is really funny from Caneto in terms of us playing the role, says, can I play Chloe? Yes, part I don't know. I don't know how we can find fun in this. But because this really is tragic, you know the loss of John O'Keeffe.
But I guess with the amount of coverage and the amount of focus that we're putting on this, you know, we have to try to find some levity while maintaining that we want justice for John O'Keeffe, and unfortunately we're not gonna be able to get that unless Karen Reid is free. Somebody in the chat turtle Boy, and I know a lot of you watch Turtleboy quite often in
our are are tracking everything that he puts out. He has said how many ring camera videos excuse me, how many ring cameras are within that span of the street that he believes should had some visibility on the crime scene. So if anybody knows that, but there is a certain number. I don't know if Peter knows that number, but I would suggest that, uh, somebody would have a view that would probably show the front door. And that's really all
we need. We just need a view of their front door, and you could see John O'Keeffe and his clothing entering the front door, and you would see you would see him. Uh if you didn't see him exit the car because the car was blocking him, you would have seen when he more than likely walked past the vehicle and down the driveway and up the walk to the door. So
that's what I would suggest. Let's have some fun though with some interrogation, because you're gonna you're gonna get him in the interrogation eventually, room, So why don't we do I think these guys would probably think it's fun to hear you interrogate Brian or Brian uh and at at the barracks. So so tell me how that would go, and I'll be I'll play the bad guy.
I guess I've got to reiterate my question just so I kind of know where I'm going with these questions. Approximately what time of day is this? In other words, sometime around zero eight hundred hours, there was a command decision from the Canton police hierarchy that they were going to recuse themselves from the case and turn it over the state police. Can we agree on that?
Yeah, let's agree on that. So now you have to put yourself as a trooper.
Okay, But having said that, I'm still going to put myself with the Canton Police patch on my shoulder because of the reason that it's still a crime scene in my jurisdiction in the town of Canton, and I don't care whether I recuse myself as an investigator in it. God damn it. There's a police officer who apparently isn't going to live and at this point I may even know that it happened in a police another police officer's property. At this point, at least the body was found there.
You don't abandon that just because you refuse yourselves. You don't. And I'm being perhaps crass on this, You don't walk away from Amurda. You close the street, You protect the crime scene the best you can. You get every means you can available in the way of whether it's tops
or whatever, try to save the scene. I'm going to suggest that it was the Canton Police who at some point indicated that they taped off the area or roped off the area, but the wind was blowing the rope down, and that they at some point got a leaf blow her to stop looking for evidence of the crime. Now, this was still Canton Police DJ. This was not the Safe Police, and I believe it was sometime sometime between. I'm going to say, I don't know, I forget the
exact time. There's so much data on this, but between the time Lieutenant Gallagher showed up, who had a top or something in his truck and arrived on scene, and then they recused themselves. There was some leaf blowing, there was some evidence ganishing in the six solo cups. There was a stop and shop bag. Yeah, and then I believe there was at some point officer Lank I guess
he was a sogeant at the time. He took command or possession of that evidence bag with the blood droplets, and his testimony was he went back to the police station and put it in a secure, refrigerated temporary evidence fault, knowing that it was going to go to the State Police because Canton was recusing themselves. Well, lo and behold that bag shows up under the bumper of a Lexus opened for plain view.
Oh doesn't maybe that's how blood was transferred.
Well, let your conscience be your guide, my friend.
I don't know, But look at.
Before we get to the State Police, which was your original question. There's a timeline between the ambulance run to the hospital, more officers unseen, the evidence coming from across the street from Keller's house, and then the arrival of a Gallagher who had to go to the station first,
I guess, and get some gear. And then the leaf Blower Brigade started with Sean Good, Sogeant Good and Lieutenant Gallagher, and then at some point I believe they cleared and Lank did too, I believe, sometime between eight thirty and nine.
And then I believe Lank went back to the house having been recalled by Jen McCabe because she suddenly had a recollection of statements that were made by by the operator of the vehicle and Lank, I believe, and it was Sewan Good I believe, gained entry to the house openly. They invited them in and they sat there sometime around nine o'clock I believe, and took another statement. And then sometime after nine the canton abandoned the scene. Left, just
drove away, just left dodge a parent. Didn't put anybody. I mean, they could have posted somebody there until they were relieved duly relieved by the state police. Whether the police said they were coming right away or they hadn't been told it was a murdy.
Yet, yeah, no, I get it. They had state.
Police come to my scenes, and as I said, there was an officer going to the hospital with a patient that was still alive. It had not been deemed a homicide yet and but you know the crime scene, and especially with the word recuse, you need to bring in the replacement agency right away. If they say they're not coming, I've never ever heard.
Yeah, then you stay at the scene.
We're not coming until the person dies. So if that's the way they want to run it, if that's the way DA Morrissey's office handles crime scenes, then you post Canton police offices around strategic locations, close the street, tell the plow guy, you know, come down to a certain distance, back up, and plow back up the other way. But you know we're gonna leave this place intact. You're not gonna plow across the street.
Maybe evidence here, absolutely, I mean we know that they they bungle this on purpose because, as you pointed out, are actually so we don't have Nurse Kim here to read this one. But this is a great one. Can you read that?
Do you want me to read something? Yeah?
Read that. Read that one from from Lily.
Yep use a.
We need Kim to say Losa because there's no one that's going to say it with a better accent than Nurse Kim Losa. Anyway. Anyway, so all right, these guys want to hear us do some role plays. So you're gonna have to interrogate. Are you ready? Do you have your your angry face on to interrogate or I don't know if you're gonna play good copper, bad cop and I'll play Brian.
No, I'm ready to roll with this. I just I just want to I just want to communicate one thing, and I communicated this today at the you stand out and debt him. We have seen over the course of this investigation comments, We've seen signs. We've seen people dressed up in different garb representing certain players, whether it be the judge or whoever. Today, somebody showed up at the standout dressed as a fisherman with a sign of District attorney, bring in the Feds, and had had this thing hanging
from a fishing pole. And there were also a couple of strong supporters, diligent advocates of Karen Reid's innocent that were dressed up in skeletons and mentioned So the point of my story is, although there appeared to be some lack of seriousness here, there isn't anybody that comes to these standouts, and there isn't anything that you and I are going to say tonight that down deep inside of our heart and soul, we know this is a serious,
tragic situation and that there are a lot of people suffering. Both families are suffering, and they both lost loved ones. And so no matter the role playing that we and I go through in the next ten minutes or an how whatever it is, you and I can project to the audience that we take this very very very seriously.
Absolutely absolutely what I was trying ad and what I was trying to and maybe this is a good time to say this. What I was trying to accomplish with role play was not to make light of what happened. It's really to no but I in case anyone in the audience is unclear, It's really to give people an idea of what would have happened were it not an infamous law enforcement officer from Boston who owned the home
in which the crime occurred. That was the purpose of this is so that people would understand what would have happened and how it would have been handled. It wouldn't have been handled on the sofa at Jen McCabe's home with five or six people that had all their stories are already worked out, telling the same story, nodding their
heads at each other. It would have been you go to this room, you go to this room, you go to this room, you go to this room, and that's probably happening within hours of his body being discovered on the lawn. Am I correct?
Yes?
Okay? I also I want to get something in here from please pass the pepper. First of all, thank you for I believe you connected with me. I don't know if it was on YouTube or Twitter, but thank you very much. So missus Brian was cleaning protest protest. You might have to help me out with this one per testimony of all there? Why keep saying this on the stand. I didn't see the significance, then if you would clarify that, because I don't. I want to get your point and
get it answered, but I don't quite understand. If you could just retype that, I'll get it unless somebody else gets it and I don't so, but we will get it answered for you. Thank you very much for that, blessing, Peter. So we're into interrogation now we're here, and would you let me know we're in the interrogation room, which Brian, do you want to interrogate? First? The one who had the altercation at the the call out from the waterfall or the homeowner.
I would I would like to interrogate. I'd like to have perhaps both to offices, interrogate both of them in different locations. Okay, just because of the significance that they both you know, a good interrogation it could take forty five minutes to an hour. I think again, if we can get more information, develop more information from both of them in different settings, different interrogation rooms, we can we can benefit from that in a in a more timely manner.
Okay, I'll be, I'll be. Let's start out with Higgy poop. I'll be Higgy poop and and go ahead, here we go, right, I'm ready.
All right, So I basically asked Higgy pool with the Higgy pool, can you tell me please about last evening? What's your day involved? Yes, yesterday, starting early morning of the twenty eighth, can you tell me about your your day? What it involved, where you went, where you came from, and where you eventually ended up before you went back to the the home party, after after party from the
bar that you were drinking at. Could you give me all the information you can on that If well, you know, I go ahead, yes.
Sir, I was watching the Patriots game, having a few beers, and then that night I went out to the waterfall with my friend Brian Albert was invited out there, and there was a whole group of people there and we ended up there have a few beers and relax.
Okay, would you find a shocking, higgy that we have had somebody go to the waterfall. We had them open up early, and we have a video showing pretty much what transpired inside of that bar up until an hour plus a minus around the closing time. With that, that surprised you that we have already obtained that information.
You know what, officer, I have nothing to hide here. Yeah, I went, I was at the waterfall and uh, you know, just you know, everybody seemed to get along having a good time. Was really nothing, you know, nothing to it.
Okay. Would it Would it surprise you that it appeared to me in my training and experience that you were posturing and gesturing across the room to another party with a with a pointed finger indicating that you had a problem with that person and you were willing to try to settle it either right there on site or rectify it sooner than later. That there was a problem, there
was friction, there was hostility. Would you what would you say to that with your pointing of the finger over the top and somebody, I mean somebody into to say apparently calm down, not here.
You know, I don't see that as hostile. I mean I was just pointing over there. I was joking around, and it wasn't hostile. It was just like a little bit of trash talk is nothing serious. Uh, you know, I didn't have anything against the guy. You know, we're you know, basic, you know, our friends basically.
Ah, okay, dude, you have you had any kind of how long have you known that person you were pointing at? How long have you known the homeowner? Can you explain your relationship with them and get into some detail on that.
Well, you know, the victim, I know in a couple of years. You know, we were introduced by somebody I don't remember who. The homeowner Brian Albert. We've been friends for I don't know, fifteen years something like that, a little been friends for quite a while.
I see. Okay, So you would your statement would be that the the the the how would we call it? The the antics of two guys shadow bloxing prior to this finger pointing and playing some sort of grab ass in the in the full front of the bar area, and then the pointing over the top at closing time, sort of being intercepted by another party. You're you're indicating that it's just normal that everybody in the bar probably did that before they left to go home tour. Is that what you're telling me?
No, I didn't see anybody else doing that, But it's just a little bit of grab ass. This is something in that Brian I do all the time. You know, this is this is normal. There's nothing, there's nothing, nothing much to it. It's just, you know, the way that you know, me and Brian, you know, get together, have a your drinks and no, just a little bit of grab ass.
Okay, all right? Did you happen to know the female that was in the forefront two in the direction that you were pointing in. Did you happen to know who she is? And was there any involvement with you with her in the past or any animosity between you and the other parties that would would indicate why you were pointing over the top as you were.
I just got a break character for a second. Hello, micro Dots, welcome back in and we're big fans of your work. Now we got to go back it to a character here. Yeah, I know, huh, I know her. You know, we've you know, we've exchanged some texts and you know, but yes, nothing serious, but yeah, we you know, we've had a few texts and you know, some interest there.
I see interest there, like mutual interest between the two of you. When was the last time you, guys think you and she may have texted?
Yeah, I think I texted her that night. I'm not sure, but I think I texted her that that night.
I see. Okay, all right, well you can you can assume that at some point, if you're not willing to turn over your phones, that we're gonna we're gonna seek to get them and find out exactly what was said and what texts and times went out. You understand that. I don't know if you'd be willing to hand over your phone, but I guess I'm asking you for it at some point right now.
Yeah, I'm not giving up my phone. And I I have nothing to hide here. I didn't do anything, I had nothing to do, had nothing to do with Oh keef, and unless you have a warrant from my phone, I'm not giving it to you.
Well, I don't have a warrant to open your phone and listen to your phone and look at your phone, but I probably could get a warrant to seize your phone and put it in safe keeping until we can get further warrants to to exposure what's in your phone. And if you're not willing to go that route, I'll ask you to put your phone on the table and we'll apply for that warrant right now as well.
All right, here's my phone. You get a warning and then you can you can look at it. Other than that, I'm taking it back.
Okay, Let's see what we can do with the magistrate if we can get the paperwork.
All right, that's pretty good. That was pretty good, Peter. All right, So do you want to do a quick Brian Albert and then we'll close out the show. We don't. We don't have a whole lot of time here, but no, I'm sorry, miss Shorty, I'm doing it. It takes some work to do a Boston accent and all of our friends and fans here, and I don't want to do an oh, man, I lost Peter. Oh my god, hopefully here he's back. He's back. Okay, there he is, Peter's back.
I don't want to do it in injustice. I would love man, I would love Peter to like try to ham up his accent a little bit and maybe do a Brian Albert. We'd well, we would welcome to the house with open arms. Isn't that what he said? If John O'Keefe came, we'd welcome him with open arms. I love that. I think Turtle Boy did a good, good impression of Brian Albert saying that that was really funny. All right. Uh, I didn't hang up on Peter, Sarah. That wasn't me.
I don't know what that glitch was. I didn't touch anything. I just it was a quick glitch in the transmissions between.
Us if they hacked Sean. But they haven't gotten into us.
No, they haven't got out yet.
Yeah, the bit the bass has a good firewall here, all right. So anyway, anyway, so do you want to do do you want to do a little bit of Brian Albert and then we'll close it out whatever you want.
This is your rodeo.
No, I mean, you know, because we we established you
were gonna get all the ring camera videos. You were gonna get that stuff, and then you really just needed to see if you could get some of corroboration or confession out of these guys, because you you would have had by now, you would have had the warrant, you would have had the CSI data that probably would have turned some things up, you would have had the videos, and then you would have just been interviewing these guys and see what you could get them to talk about,
including all those folks that were at the house, like Jennifer Cabe. Who would you rather in it? Would you rather do Jen McCabe or would you do Brian Albert if you wanted to do an interview, we'll take I think initially you said the too, Brian.
So if we let's do what.
Okay, and remember this is not this is not you know, this is not the law enforcement officer, because if it is, and then we know what happens. This interview never happens because it didn't happen. So this is going to be Brian, but it won't be the seasoned law enforcement officer who's been well, who has well crafted answers for everything, and knows the drill, so to speak. So all right, let's go ahead.
All right, So I want to thank you Brian for coming down to the barracks to conduct this interview with us. Can I get your coffee? Make yourself comfortable here, you want a water? I'd like to ask you some questions.
Yeah, thank you. This is horrible, horrible what happened here? This is terrible, but yeah, thank you. It's not a problem, you know.
Okay? Can you can you relate to me what what you were conducting for business or leisure time from early morning of the twenty eighth until right now this time of this interview. Can you relate to me where you went, who you were with, what you were doing.
So so me breaking character, I don't know what Brian. The events of Brian's day, we're leading up to the waterfall, so I'll make a copa on that. So I'm going to start at the water or fall. I'm just kind of lucky. I didn't know what Higginbotham was doing, what I didn't know what who was doing prior to that. So so here we are. So that evening, Uh I
invited a bunch of our friends out. UH my niece, her husband, Uh, my friend Brian, uh, my brother, my brother Chris, and a bunch of us went to the waterfall. Just relax and have some beers.
Okay. Do you have any idea approximately what time you got there and what time you would have left?
So I don't know, Maya Kulpa, and I don't know what time did they arrived? So forgive me. If anybody in the chat, or or if Peter knows, do you know what time they arrived and what time they left?
I'd be guessing without my notes in front of me. So we'll just go with, do you know approximately what time it was that you guys were leaving the bar?
You know? One to say they must have left around midnight? Did the bar close at midnight?
So okay, that's close close enough okay?
And midnight yep?
Okay. And so you you were leaving the bar. Before you left the bar, you have conversation with any other people that you are familiar with or friends of yours that you may have invited to the bar or inadvertently bumped into there.
Uh. Well, another officer there was John O'Keeffe. Another Uh, I should have said that friend officer John O'Keeffe, his girlfriend, Karen, my niece, Kerry Roberts, Brian Higgins, my brother. So there was a lot of people there and then we ended up having a I invited people over for an afterparty.
Okay, did would you say that the evening was amicable between all the parties that were there. We can get into the the how long you've known everybody and the who's who and the what's what, But for right now, I'd like to know what was your what was your feeling about that evening as it was closing down? Was everybody amicable? Were there any problems or hostilities between anybody?
Not at all. Everybody was having a good time, is relaxing. I didn't have sense any animosity there at all.
Okay, has it been ever been any animosity in the past with the gentleman that we later I guess identified as now the decedent? Any any problems with him in your past?
Never he was a junior officer. Well in this case, you know, well we got to pretend he's not a police officer. But or maybe for the purposes of this, we could pretend that actually Brian Albert was a police officer. But you were actually doing your job in interrogating him. So I so in this case because we never get
to the interrogation because he's he was cop. But for this purpose, we pretend that actually Perea Murphy was on duty and says, no, we're going to prosecute this case properly, and he actually does do an interview where Brian Albert is alone in the room and Brian Higgins is alone in a room, irrespective of what their position is. So we could actually attack this a different way. So he was a junior officer in the department. Nice kid, never had any problems.
With him, Okay, all right. The other the other patrons that had accompanied you as part of this group at the at the waterfall, would you would you say that they're all friends to some varying degrees or acquaintances or how would you describe the people that you just related to me who were there family and friends of yours?
Yeah, some was close families, some of them were more like friends, and others were more like acquaintances, like Karen is more like an acquaintance.
I see. Okay. Would would it be out of the realm of possibility to suggest to you that there may be some ring camera footage on the street that we have already garnished and had a chance to look at. Did you have a ring camera that was functioning? Did the gentleman across the street who you must know, tell her did he have a ring camera? Do you know any anybody else on the street that has ring cameras? You're a pretty high profile police police officer. I guess
we're identifying you as a police officer. Now you must have you must have some home security. Apparently you had. I've been told you you have a German shepherd. We'll talk about that. Any green camera information that you can provide me, would you mind if I asked you to look at yours?
So break breaking character right now. If anyone knows whether or not Brian had a ring camera or not, if anyone in the chat you know that he did, he did have one, Peter.
I can tell you that the story I believe he testified to was that he got a ring camera for Christmas, but he hadn't put it on his house. Hut. I've heard contraindications to that.
Okay, all right, so we it's unclear, So I'll deny that I have the ring camera. I don't have a ring camera on my house off, Sir Murphy. But you know, as to the neighbors, I can't speak to what what ring camera footage they may or may not have.
I see, okay, all right, So do you know do you recall any kind of hostilities or grab ass at the bar area where you might have and posturing that you're having some sort of a wrestling match or some sparring using your using your hands. Are you trained in self defense or boxing at all? Sir?
Yeah, I'm an amateur boxer.
Amateur boxer. Yeah, No, I am, okay, all right? And that that means what if you're an amateur box that you compete in in boxing and gyms and so forth, or you just uh, you just do it to maintain your skill set because of your job.
Mostly sparring. Uh, I've had I've had a few boxing matches here and there, but I'd say mostly sparring.
I see okay. I noticed that you you didn't take your gloves off, and it's pretty warm in here. There's the reason for that?
When no, I it's that for the sweaty hands. Is that why the gloves? What's that question for Peter? But we've gotta break character for a second.
Are you are you hiding some damage knuckles?
Oh oh wow wow, that's why. This is the reason why Peter was a police officer for thirty four years.
Everybody's a suspect until proven innocent.
Yeah, so at that point, that would be really interesting keep the gloves on, especially if you had like lightweight leather gloves, something that wouldn't look like ski gloves inside, that wouldn't be too obvious that okay, why are you wearing ski gloves inside? Really interesting? So you would make them take the gloves off. Yeah, yeah, so I removed I yeah, I'll remove my gloves.
Okay, all right, for the benefit of the conversation, we'll we'll just say that the doesn't appear that there's any damage to you hands at this point. To move the move the conversation.
Okay.
So, okay, you you had a bunch of people over to the house. There was some kind of a party at your host before you returned here from the waterfall or what was the age group of the people that were there? Why were they there and how many of them stayed and how long did they stay?
I may need help on this. I believe there's ten people there. If I'm not mistaken my nephew. Somebody, somebody's gonna have to help me with this, because I don't have all the names of all the folks. I know the nephew was there at one point. I'm not sure if Caitlin Albert was there or if she was called to come pick up to come pick up Colin Albert. I believe carry was there at some point. Sarah Levinson
I believe was there. Obviously, Jen was there, Brian Albert Junior may have been there, obviously, Nicole Albert, Brian Albert, Brian Higgins. And there's quite a slew of people there. Julie Nagel, I'm getting there. Jen and Matt both were there. Thank you. So it looks like Brian Albert Junior, two girlfriends. Colin was leaving in the mccabes. Thank you everybody, and someone said the bagel, So I let the bagel. These people are so funny, Peter, They're so funny.
Man.
Someone put her shoulder, pulling Chloe off. Julie's really gotten into this case. I think since this started, Ali Ali McCabe picked up Colin, not Caitlin Albert. Thank you, thank you, thank you. I really appreciate it. I am. If there's an area of weakness on this case, it is a lot of those ancillary plays, so I do have some weaknesses there. So let's just assume I named off everybody who was there for the sake of the discussion.
Okay, What I'd like to do at this time, mister Albert is just revisit the waiting moments at the bar. As you know, you were a police officer, obviously, and so is mister Higgey, who we have also conducted an interview with. Would you find it out of out of the norm that you guys were posturing some sort of boxing and also that they appeared to be some hostility or animosity generated from mister Haigy in the direction of repeat to be John O'Keefe or at least the decendent.
Would you comment on that please? How did you interpret that?
I didn't see it as animosity, and as far as me and Higgins, it was a little bit to grab ass and nothing more. I didn't see hostility between anyone at the bar that night.
Okay, all right? And you were aware that we're probably asking Agent Hegey the same questions that we're asking you. We're just trying to get information as to how a gentleman ended up on your front line and you didn't know anything about it, and apparently it was sometime after a party. Had you invited this gentleman back to your house? And did he come in the house? Did you see him come in the house?
He never came in the house. I did not invite him, but Higgins did invite him.
I see. Okay, the reason you did you just did or didn't have a reason to invite him, or you opted not to invite him.
We're not that close. I didn't think to invite him, but he would have been welcome to my house with open arms.
Okay, okay. Have you had occasions? Have you had occasions in the past to have social settings, having beers or something at other establishments in the town, perhaps where the picture has taken of you in the last week or so? Everybody together, Chris, al, but you John, uh and Higgey I have okay? All right? So so do id so have? I is the right way? Okay? Well, I guess moving right on. So can you tell me what happened approximately
he didn't come in? Did you see Doc, did you see Karen's carly or did you hear that she had come by were there were their phone calls being made from inside your health house by family members asking where are you.
I did not see eat her car, and I did not see John come in the house at all. Okay, I don't. I don't know if somebody else saw her, but I did not see her.
Okay, all right, So let's fast forward to some time after six zero six hundred dollars in the morning.
Where were you?
What were you doing at that time? What time did you go to bed? What time did you and Nicole retire for the evening?
Must have been around two thirty we Uh. I went to bed. My wife and I were having relations, and I fell asleep, and I I didn't wake up until after I heard all this happen.
I see, I see what to refresh your memory if if I told you that, I think Jen McCabe came running into the bedroom with some then said something had happened outside sometime around sometime shortly after six o'clock in the morning, when all the emergency vehicles were there.
Yes, I remember, I remember that.
Oh okay, but you didn't. You didn't You didn't go outside, You didn't see anything, You didn't find a need to go out into the front yard where this incident took place and where it was being dealt with by a multitude of personnel. You you never left your house to go out there. It's an investigated as a police officer, inherently an inherent curious person by trade, you didn't see a need to go out there.
It's not my crime scene. It's it's it's not my jurisdiction, it's not my crime scene. I I stayed out of it.
I understand you were perceptive enough to know that it's not your crime scene to investigate. But I guess my question is, would it have been the norm for somebody, regardless of their profession, to at least go out and check on what appeared to be at this point, perhaps your knowledge that this was a friend of yours, or at least somebody that was invited back to your house at night, just the officer.
Officer, I was asleep, My sister in law comes running in the bedroom yelling, I'm just waking up, and before you know it, all the emergency vehicles are gone, and that was it. I didn't take it as anything else. I was waiting to hear what happened. My brother's an officer in Canton, and I figured he would call me and tell me what happened.
Okay, okay, and that that brother is what is his name and what is his rank on the police.
Department, detective Kevin Albert?
Okay? And did you have any conversation or did you see Kevin Albert in the course of the Saturday leading up to and or after midnight on the twenty ninth. Did you see him, have any conversation with him?
Not until after this happened, not until the next day.
The next day, I see, okay, what type of car would your brother drive, Kevin Alban?
I think he has a Ford Edge. I think I don't recall, but I think that's what he's driving.
I see, okay, ford edge. Any any determination on what color that might be?
I don't remember what what color it is? Is it gray? And if somebody helped me in the chat, if we know what color the four edge was on, that was as a sand color. Somebody helped me, if they know anyway, Sorry, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
So thank you, thank you, Lily. It's awesome, Thank you, Lily.
As as you know from your training and experience as a police officer at this point, we're just trying to gather information, collect information as to what may have taken place that that has led to the death of Officer John O'Keefe. And at this point we're just trying to
get as much information as we can. We haven't focused on anybody yet, but you can imagine that we are going to be due diligent as far as getting all the ring cameras, trying to develop as much information as we can from phones, from Celebrate, from Geo, any any means possible that we can try to figure out what's going on here, either before or after we prochio warrants and go into these phones. So you understand where I'm coming from, You understand what's going on, and you understand
where this might end up. And I would I would suggest to you that we're just looking for cooperation at this point in time. So let's continue with the interview.
All right, all right, let's Peter. I'm gonna tell you what nobody wants to be in the hot seat with you, because man, that was difficult, man, and I didn't have answers to a lot of these a lot of these great questions that you asked, So that was absolute fire Man where would you have gone. I'm gonna break character here because we're getting past we're almost at the hour and a half mark. Where would you have gone next with them?
I just would have I just would have pressured them, you know, more and more and more on on in the evening, leaving the bar, revisiting conversations about the posturing. You know, I just would have tried to bring it up in case I could get him with an inconsistency
or a variation in what he was telling me. And and obviously worked on the fact that that it was probably going to be in his best interest to tell as much of the truth as he could, because at some point we're going to do our damn best to get every source of information and evidence if it becomes accusatory that we can, so either he can tell us now or perhaps tell us in another venue.
Yeah.
Absolutely, And if you like this, let's face, an interview like this could you know, could take hours. It doesn't have to be a quick, you know, bullet point questions that I might have, you know, quickly put together on my way to the barracks.
No, absolutely, you would have you would have done, you know, make it take hours and then come back and ask him all over again and see if he changes his story.
Right, So, yeah, absolutely, and at the same time we we would we collectively the law enforcement agency would have been interviewing anybody and everybody whose name we had, you know, obtained through starting out with the two Bryans, and and anyone else that we met initially, you know, after six o'clock that morning. So there wouldn't have been any of this stuff like let's let's talk to the plow driver
a year later. It would have it all would have happened within a very timely manner by a diligent law enforcement agency.
Right it would the recollection would have been very fresh and Lucky's mind U But they didn't want to interview we. I mean, everybody here knows that this was a corrupt investigation meant to not garner any evidence that would suggest her innocence. They had to build a case against her, so they didn't They didn't want it. They were aware of Lucky Lochran. They were quite aware that the street
was plowed. A blind person could see that the street was plowed, and they obviously are smart enough to know that the plow driver might have seen something. So obviously Proctor would have wanted to interview him if he didn't want to eskew any exculpatory evidence in Karen Reid's favor. Obviously. I mean that's what that was the whole purpose of last night's show regarding the I said, a thought experiment
using critical thinking skills. Any investigative police officer would have wanted to talk to the plow driver who made like three, four or five sweeps up that road to see did you see anything? Well, Mike Procter didn't want to talk
to Lucky. Why would that be, well, because he might he might give evidence that that suggests that the body was not there when it should have been there after twelve, you know, after twelve twenty something at night, because by twelve thirty one or whatever, or twelve thirty seven, and remember is when she was clocked back into the Wi Fi back at John's house, so there had to have been a body there at you know, somewhere between twelve
twenty and twelve thirty one. Any police officer would say, well, let me talk to the plow driver who plowed the street after that, but they didn't want to. So we know, we realize that it's corrupt We were trying to play this as if what would happen if there were either in the first instance, if they were lay persons, how they would have approached the owners of the home and the occupants of the home at the time of the incident.
And then we were able to we were able to extrapolate that into Okay, you're police officers, but we actually have honest police officers that are investigating this, and they actually bring in the mccabs and the Alberts, both husband wife, Higgins, and everybody's in a separate room being interrogated, and some of them are just sitting there stewing for hours wondering what the other ones are saying before they could all get their story straight and be on a sofa with
what's his face with Mike Procter, which is just the most the height of absurdity. All right, So super Chats please pass to Pepper again. We didn't get clarity on that. I want to thank you though for that. I don't think we have any more questions from super chat ers, Miss Shorty obviously with a compliment. So let's get to uh, let's get to the ones that I starred that are unsuper Chatted so this one right here, this for Peter.
It's odd only because Jen McCabe knew John O'Keefe, but she was driving around literally looking for John O'Keeffe, and John O'Keefe only who did she think that man passed out in the snow was. And that's my my jenn mccaby. He has a man on the lawn at thirty four, have you that's my my jenn McCabe impression. I hope you guys like it's not terrible. It was a man on the lawn the Albert's residents. So yeah, I mean, obviously, Olivia, if you're still here, Love, I don't know if you're
still here. Obviously that was all good play acting by Jennifer McCabe. Let's get Scott in here. Scott, pretty simple. John O'Keefe is found on a civilian's lawn and Brian Albert didn't call in the fix before Canton p D arrived. Brian Albert didn't call in the fix before Can and PD arrived. The entire scene plays out differently. House entered the actual scene itself. Yeah, I mean that's basically what Peter just said. He just told you how it would
have happened. They would have knocked on the door. And this is what I said last night. They would have knocked on the door. They would have asked for entry. Peter, you know, just he I mean, he he's a police officer, so he's gonna say, hey, can I can I speak with your wife? Could you bring her to the door? Can you bring anyone who's home to the door so I can speak with him, even if you won't let me in, And we'll have a warrant, you know, we'll
get a warrant. And then he told you that within thirty to forty five minutes he would have they would have had a warrant. And let's just say at the outset it was two hours. Let me ask you this, Peter. Could you guys have parked an officer there and said nobody comes in and or or nobody comes to that? Can you prevent people from coming or do you just have to just station officers there as a present until the warrant is received.
I used to kill the scene. That's you know, your objective is to secure the prime scene from any contamination, any footprints, anybody coming and going. And it could have been as you know, it could have been as simple as knocking on the door and saying, you know, I'd like to come in and sit down and talk. There's something serious going on out here in front of the house. Have you been out to see it? No, I haven't. Okay, welles that raises some flags. Do you know who that
person is? Did you hear anything over night? Blah blah blah blah. We did a protective sweep. We walked around the back of the house, cutting through the neighbor' yacht because your yards fenced in. We saw a lot of footprints coming out of the bullheit. We have some questions about that. What were people coming out of the bulkhead for after midnight? What was going on? It looks like a lot of activity out there. I'd like to talk
to you about that. And if things don't, you know, get if things become problematic, As far as the answers to a train and observer, it just raises the problem cause that you're going to put in your affidavid to get a warrant, and they would have. At some point you could freeze the crime scene. You can say, look at who's in the house, get them down here, now put your cell phones in that Paul reveal, ble over there,
sit there with the hands folded, no communication. We're going to get to the bottom of this.
You know. There there, there you have it, folks. This is what would have happened, Julie. So yeah, if you google the Craig Casey case in Canton, Uh, you will hear about what happened with Craig Casey and the lawn is awful.
Uh.
Scott mcinness, Scott Peter. One theory has always been that o Jo's body was put in the car, say, inside the garage, and then the car driven over to the front of the house. O Jo removed and staged on the lawn. Ford edge served as a shield. How do you like that theory?
I'm going to comment in two directions. Number one is I want to tell you that I don't know. If you know DJ, you probably may or may not know what Scott. Scott McGuinness has probably got the highest attendance rate at all of these standouts of any of the Karen Reid team. Scott is a squared away guy in my opinion, and he's rock solid again in my opinion. The question that he's asking, uh, that's been tossed around is it possible. It's certainly possible. However, we're dealing with
a we're dealing with a police officer. Now that we know you and I are not role playing anymore, do I dealing with the police officer who we're going to assume is was lucid by the time he was making these decisions. Maybe not, but sometime after three am, which brings me another point. Remind me if I forget I want to talk to about four am radio transmission. Just
don't let me walk away from that. But anyway, suggest I'm going to suggest that that a police officer with a skill set isn't going to drag a body through the house, upstairs, through the house, put it in a car, possible risk contamination of the rooms he's going through or she and putting it in a car. It just is just too much risk of DNA, you know, cross contamination.
In my opinion, the best way would have been to go out through the bulkhead around the back and then get some kind of a sweep or broom electric leaf blower, no noise, and and just kind of clean off the footsteps that came out of the bulkhead and through the gate. And that's just my opinion, I am not I'm not condescending anything in the direction of Scott with that comment, because that that is out there, and and and I
everything everything that comes to me. I tag it back and put it on the shelf DJ and then I go back to it, revisit it with more corroboration. And if you get it four or five people telling in the same story, you got to give a traction. But what Scott has proposed with this theory is very viable. It may come out to be the truth. I don't know.
That's great, Scott, thank you very much. That's a great theory. It could be that, or it could be the Ford edge was just used as a shield to obscure the sight line of anybody out that was further a field from the street from viewing someone coming through that backyard fence and then bringing the body over to rest there. Either I mean six of it very well could have been that that it was done with the Ford edge,
but it also may not have. It may have just served as a shield so that people couldn't couldn't see it. But I I you know, the body would be more protected, more obscured from sight inside the Ford edge, from in the garage than it would have been just blocking the
street because there's some other sight lines there. But I again I'm not familiar with thirty four fair View I'm going to have to do some Google Earth there, all right, So you wanted to talk about the four am call and then we'll get to Marjorie, So go ahead, sir.
So we're talking about the plow driver who we now know to be identified as Lucky, and also the likelihood that there's video ring camera footage from many, many, many streets and locations in the community that were obtained. I'm
going to suggest by outside agencies. We'll leave it at that, and then I'm going to tell you that there could very well be some ring camera footage that shows certain vehicles driving around sometime after two thirty in the morning responding to thirty four fav of you road, and that could be problematic for a lot of people. And there was supposedly a radio transmission. I have a pretty good source that indicated there was a radio transmission about four
o'clock in the morning on the DPW radios. It said report of a pedestrian struck in the vicinity of Fairview Road by a plow now that allegedly was broadcast at four o'clock ish in the morning, and then there was no further transmissions. There was nothing over the radios that
the DPW radios would have picked up. And I believe there were subcontractors plowing for the town of Campon with intensity and the magnitude of the stone was going to be so great that there were contractors plowing for the town, helping the town out with the expected snowload, and they
would have all had these PW radios. And my understanding was that one of the contractors was asked by an employee a plow driver, hey, whatever happened to that radio transmission at zero four hundred hours, and the comment was, we don't talk about that transmission, and there wasn't one, and don't bring it up again.
So that was meant to be a lark. Well, I think that transmission that was meant to field.
I'm gonna suggest to you and the audience. Was it the prelude to setting up Lucky for being the driver who would have struck a pedestrian. I think what would have put the snaffo on that if that was the case, was there was not enough snow to make it look like a drift across the side of the road and let the plow come through. That's just my opinion. That's kind of like in the same direction.
That's some that's some really really sick people that would that would do something. Well, obviously these are really sick people that would try to frame an innocent woman. But thank you for shedding light on that. Marjorie asks you, Peter, who decides what exigen circumstances are, like, there are certain scenarios that are automatically exigent or not so because you refer to exigence circumstances.
Yeah, without getting into the definition of it, exigency means that there is a likelihood that there could be a loss or destruction of evidence, critical evidence to a crime scene. It could be that there's injured, critically injured people that need medical attention that would create an exigency. Uh, it's something that if you don't address it in a very timely manner, like almost now, you're going to lose stuff, or it could be contaminated, or it could go away.
And you know the intent of our judicial system is to preserve evidence so that you can bring it forward in a criminal setting, criminal trial which obviously we saw the the after effects of what didn't happen in this case.
This is a great point by Ann Merritt. Thank you and I don't know if you're at the standout today, but thank you and thank you. Scott. Did Ba have any sprained arm or injuries on his hands or face? I also think either officer Lank or Good who first win in the Albert's house would have smelt bleach in my opinion, I'll let Peter answer that for me. If
they would have went in the basement. Bleach is an odor that you can't really hide that quickly, So in the basement that would have been very tough to hide. But what's your answer on that one, Peter? Any injuries so Brian Brian Albert's arms, hands, face?
Do I am I aware of any? Is that the question you're closing me?
Deay?
I'm not aware of anything that has come out in any evidence of testimony, So to answer that question, period, I'm not aware of any. Would they have been possibly if he was one of the combatants or if he used one of the combatants. My guess is there certainly would have been some telltale signs about their face or their hands, that they sustained a couple of you know,
took a couple of incoming punches or hits. I can't speak to whether there was or not, and so I'm just saying it would have been telltale, perhaps, especially by the looks of John's hands. If there was a fight inside the house, somebody might have had some indication that they'd been hit.
But and we do know that Colin Albert had hit the scrapes on his knuckles. I don't know whether he's left handed or right handed. I don't know if that was his punching hand or not, but that would be interesting to know.
That would be interesting to note. But as you know, if you're gonna slip on the ice, you put your knuckles down first and always embrace your fall. So again I'm not a doctor. I can't speak to what happened, but Tom I would say this, and it's only a hunch. I think. I think the FEDS have a lot, lot, lot more than we give them credit for right now, and I think things are gonna get busy.
Praise be the Lord mystery singer. First of all, I love to if you're a singer, because I love music. Yes, I do have my eyeglasses over top of my sunglasses. Paul had a So this is for you, Peter. Paul had a d w I car accident and hit an elderly man whom he paralyzed and is suing Paul for medical bills which could go into millions. This is a theory here Paul needs Karen to get convicted so he can sue for her wrongful death. Wow, this is this
is definitely in the conspiracy zone. What do you make of that?
Again, I don't I don't discount anything. Everything's on the table. I'll listen to anything, I'll tag it, i'll bag it, I'll put it on the shelf, and if we can corroborate it down the road with one or two or three more people. Is that theory any further fetch than what Scott McGinnis head. No, you know, on on on on the car backing out of the garage and acting as a as a shield. I mean, I don't know.
I think, as they say in the crime world, follow the money right, if there's a money issue, I can't speak to what people's motives are, and I'm certainly not going to go down that rabbit hole on follow grief but again, I I got to believe that if there's any information out there that would head in any of the direction of inculpatory towards anybody else other than Karen Reid, that the Feds have it.
And I would say, only just put that up there one more second. Yeah, I'll leave that where it lay. But I will say the former, just to paraphrasing what Peter said. The former Pentagon chief of the UFO program, Luel Zondo, whose book Imminent is coming out on August twentieth, about what he knows about UFOs. He ran the program for the pentagonasy GS fifteen, and he said when they ask him this question about the origin, about the motives of UFOs, he says, everything's on the table till it's
off the table. So that's the same thing you said.
I mean, everybody's guilty and less until proven innocent. Let's face find a body on a line. It didn't come out of the bay of a C one thirty a flight coming back from Orlando right there. I don't mean that, Crassley. I mean again, no, we're talking about a deceased police officer here and a family, the Reed family, that's been tragically interrupted and towelment, and also of the Yoki family that lost two family members in a short off my period.
I mean, it's just a tragic, tragic situation between many families, and now you've got nieces and nephews involved too. It's just it's horrible. And I'm going to suggest to you that if there was a diligent crime scene investigation sometime after six am on that morning, that we may not be having this conversation.
We're not there wouldn't be in.
Need of it.
Nope, because as you said again we'll say it for the second time during the broadcast, and you said it very adroitly, there's three leaders of blood that need to be accounted for. And to a skilled CSI people, someone like Eddie Wallace, you know from duty Ron, you're not going to be able to hide. You can throw out,
throw down all the bleach you want. They're going to find they're going to find a spot of that blood if there was three leaders of blood, or they're going to find all the bleach, and that in itself is going to be uh, you know, probable cause, and you know there's gonna be in die and then then you start getting all the other video the ring camera videos and everything like that comes into play if they're not able to find the blood, right, I mean, now the
all the videos, everything else you know that they find they find that. Oh, well, you're saying that the girlfriend did it, but she only has a crack taillight. So how do you explain this that this guy's dead in your lung? Where the hell's his shoe? We have a video of him walking in the house from ring camera across the road, so that you know, the burden, the burden of proof certainly would shift over to the defense on that one. So Mystery Singer has another singer here
which you're gonna love. Instead of Jen McKay Peter, it's Jen mccob. Okay, Jen mccob on nine to one one called John o'keeth it. Jen mccob told Carrie giving CPR get off him. Then Carrie told Karen, y'are not helping wow these and so then she says these people are sick and evil psychopaths. Yeah, apparently, so apparently they are a very textbook in that way. That's all you You've you've really you know, Mystery Singer, you really really have
hit on it here. And I don't think I can add and say anything uh that could make more clear what you've said. I'm going to go back to this. We're going to close the show now. I want to thank uh everybody, thank you for the superstickers and super chats. I really do appreciate it. It's really going to help us out a lot. I got an l L from True Crime Kangaroo. Thank you love. There's no way that it has cleaned up one hundred percent. Yeah, that is
one hundred percent true it. I mean I've heard I've heard CSI analysts have say that, you know, so you can, you can do what you want. But I'm going to find that spot of blood. You can bleach it, you can try to clean it up as best you can. I'm going to find it. Duty Ron and Ed. Yeah, those guys are awesome. All right, thank you everybody? Uh any parting shots? Final words? Uh, Sergeant Peter Murphy.
Uh, Well, just as as you and I both know, this was, as you called it, an impromptu get together sit down tonight, I certainly you know I. I didn't have a chance to go over my uh my case recent case law on my notes, names and faces and so forth. So if I appeared to be a little you know, caught off God, I was as far as where you were going with this role playing and stuff.
So but it was great.
I hope it was. I hope it was informative to the audience, because that's what we're trying to do, is bring people to a point of asking questions in their own mind and asking other people and filtering through the testimony that they're hearing. And God forbid here again in January.
God forbid that. Yeah, yeah what you so? Yeah? That was the idea was to kind of do a thought experiment.
What would have happened and Peter took you like, what an interrogation would have looked like, what a conversation with the homeowners would have looked like were it not Brian Albert, or if it were just an honest police investigation, which I submit to you that Peter were he on duty that night, That's what would have happened, whether Brian Albert was the homeowner or not, that would have happened, although he might have hurt. I don't know what you had done.
If the deputy chief would have told you, you know, I don't want you going and knock it on the door. What would you do then then you call? Would you be calling the attorney general or what do you do?
I would I I don't know. I probably would have taken a hit on failure to obey in order a command from a senior officer, and I would have knocked on the door.
There you go. So so you guys got a good taste of what it was. I know we did a role play and there was a little bit of fun there. And thank you Lily. Next time we do this we will have you role playing. You can play any character. You could be Jen McCabe if you want. Next time we do this, we can have Peter interrogate Jen McKay. But Lily is gonna play Jen McCabe. So so thank you. I look forward to seeing you and miss Shorty Saturday night for the round table with Masa Nurse Kim Sean mcconnaugh.
I don't know if I'm missing anybody. I think that's ever right anyway. But Peter Man, it has been an honor to be your friend, to be able to get to have these conversations with you offline. I thank you everybody in the chat for rescuing me with all the facts that I didn't know, and I really that you can know a lot about this case and you really don't know. You can think you know a lot like I did, and I really there's so much that I don't know. Julie has did an amazing job with catching
up on this case. Man, Wow, Julie, you really wowed me tonight. Really looking forward to see all then, Ernie Birdie, thank you so much. We should all do charades. You are so funny with a comedy tonight. And there was somebody else in here that was really funny. If somebody can remind me who that was, hit me up on Twitter or whatever. You can see mine there. Peter Murphy is at sergeant Slammer for those of you who want
to follow Peter Murphy at sergeant Slammer on Twitter. We need to get more followed, We need to get people communicating with him because you are an amazing resource and we might even we might see you at this thing. I just gotta make sure we don't have too many. But I would love to have you. And if I just shut up and don't talk, more than we could have you and Seawan there. I just want to stalk less.
This is your This is your rodeo. You do a great job. I've just started, you know, getting involved with watching your shows and participating in a couple of these. So power to you, and you do what you gotta do. And uh, if I even just get to sit here and watch it live without participating, I'm more than happy to do that. And I'm sure it's going to be a great roundtable. And uh and and encourage your audience to make sure that they slot that time out to watch it.
Yeah, so that'll be Saturday night, and it'll be even better if we get Peter in there. And right now they're saying for Sean, we want to Sean says, not members only, but Wednesday night, six pm, Sean will have a reattack on the episode that he was going to have. And Sean is appointment listening. We all know that. So uh all right, so actually let me scroll up get my outro video here? Uh man, So there it is
cab outro. All right. So for Sergeant Peter Murphy, for all of you in the chat whom we are just so indebted to for doing coming and participating and making this so much damn fun. We really do appreciate it. Freak Aaron Reid, justice for John O'Keefe. Let's do this damn thing, Okay, let's keep going. Thank you, Peter. I'll be happy you all right. I appreciate it. Peace out, one love and we'll see you down the road, all right.
Have a great night. You get a lot going on.
Thank you, brother,