Karen Read Case - Thought Experiment/Critical Thinking Exercise

So we're gonna get into it with you. Jump up in the comments, and if somebody wants a vine and they want to come up up in here and talk to me, more than likely I will welcome you in. Okay, unless just like a crazy person, then I might not. But if you do want to get up in here and you DM me on Twitter, I can send you the link to join the show. So, without further ado, just well, one a little more Ado. Okay, before I jump into the case, it's just people that don't know me.

My name is obviously DJ. You know that I am a native of New York, proud graduate of hender Cutson High School, went to College ed Dean in Massachusetts, didn't graduate from there, but was a law enforcement major as where A lot of my teammates in nineteen eighty five eighty six were Ellie majors. And I'm super duper proud of all those guys, and we have yearly reunions. My background is Air Force Special Operations. I come from the

aviation side of special operations. Critical thinking is part and parcel and is mandatory in the type of work that I did. And if you can't think critically quickly and analyze things, then you're not going to make it very far. Okay, now I'll jump into the Karen Reid case. Let me check the comments, just to welcome whomever is here. Hi, Tom, how are you? Brother? How are you? Tom? Finch is in the question what made me move to Colorado? I'll just say it was work. I can't really get into

what I'm doing out here. I apologize about that, but it was work and I'm happy. Thank you. Thank you so much, Tom for the by the way, not guilt, didn't keep up the good work. I appreciate you. So I'm gonna step through some things here. Oh. I borrowed that from a former colleague. Of mine. I'm gonna step through a couple things in the case here, and hopefully you guys can join me in analyzing this so that we can figure out what makes sense and what doesn't

make sense, because it really doesn't care Massachusett. What's up, Tom? Yeah? I love Massachusetts. Like I said, my teammates from Dean College all Massachusetts guys. A lot of them were law enforcement because law enforcement was a major that was offered at Dean. And as I said, we started yearly reunions. I missed last year, but we're this year. I will get there. And I love Massachusetts because it was one

of the best years of my entire life. I'm fifty seven years old and one of the best years of my entire life was being at Dean in Massachusetts and as an eighteen year old and being welcomed into the community. Okay, let us jump into it, friends, let me know. If the mic doesn't sound good, if it's too loud or anything like that, feel free to let me know and we'll make adjustments as necessary. Let us start off at the waterfall. Thank goodness for micro dots. Micro Dots is

such a g I love your work, micro Dots. If you're out there, and that video provided provided something for me that I could actually see what was going on. Because if you've been in barroom situation and you've been in a fight before and you've seen fights develop in a barroom situation, you know exactly what was happening there, and that's clear. And I'm just I'm going to skip around all this sparring stuff because that is really it's very helpful and it does help to paint the picture.

But it's quite subjective, right because we you know, a lot of guys do jack around in a bar and maybe in a joking way, and maybe it has nothing to do with somebody that's getting ready to fight, or I mean, I've done that with people in a bar. When I go home to my hometown, I go to an Italian restaurant. There's a great wrestler from our high school that owns the restaurant and is the PITSI ole there and he'll clinch with me. He knows that I was a not a good wrestler, but as a jiu

jitsu guy, and he'll clinch with me. He wants clinch with me, and he'll clinch and just see if he can get an aventage in the clinch so that these things do happen. So I don't want people to think that just Brian and Brian jacking around like that means that they were Brian was. This is just in my opinion, and I am open to all the other analysts that look at this that may see something more than I do.

But what I'm gonna get to is the point. Okay, and my mic, my boom, mic is right here, my boom goes off off this way to uh, my left and your right. But here's what I'm gonna show you. When when Higgy Pooh, let me see if I can get when Higgy Pooh does this and points that finger, and I'm moving back from the mic so that my finger's there, and it's doing like this and nodding his

head and he's actually having to go around. Whether it was Chris Albert or Brian Albert, I can't tell these people apart, there's no question in my mind that was all out for a fight. That was do you want some of this? Mother? You want some of this? That's what the Hey, what's up? Jerry Lynn? Thank you, ma'am. I appreciate you. You're awesome too. Thank you for dropping in.

So if you guys got comments, questions, whatever, and if somebody wants to come on here and you hit me up on Twitter, I will send you the link via DM. In fact, let me check my Twitter real quick, because if someone wants to get me, they're gonna have to. Uh that's the way to get the link. Uh, So let me just check real quick. And I don't have any dms, so we're good. But if anybody does want to get up in here, that's how I can get up in here if you want to discuss. Okay, so

here we are. So we have we have Brian Higgins without no doubt in my mind. Do you want some of this mother effort? Do you? Oh? Somebody's calling me. They can't do that during the somebody who's calling me during the show. He's calling me back, but I'll try him later. He seems to call one of them on air, one of my buddies from Intel. Anyway. All right, So so now that we have that, we have, we have that, and then we have backing up because we need some

sort of empirical evidence. Was the text you come in? Question mark? Question mark question mark, And there's no question that if you're smart that if you are a Brian Albert or you are a selectman and Chris Albert, I know those are all should be tongue in cheek jokes. But they're not. Then thank you so much, Charlie, and I appreciate it. Man. If that's the case, then you're

not gonna want to do this in public. Nobody is gonna want two behemoths fighting in public at the waterfall and then have the Canton Police called and there's like, you know, at least two police officers, three police officers president of that, including Brian Higgins, and who knows if there was other police officers there, because I know there's one Canton police officer that spoke with el Heffe Sean

Sean excuse me now, I'm forgetting his name. I'm thinking of Leopardo eight, Sean McDonough, the great supervisory retired d agent. And Sean McDonough says that there's a Canton police officer said, if I go out to an establishment, either a bar or a restaurant and I see Brian Albert, I turn around and leave, and I'm if I'm there and he comes in, I leave, So that that should trigger something in your mind as to what some people think about Brian. So so now we know there was meant to be

a fight. We know that because of the point which only means one thing, Do you want some of this? You want some of this? Pal that only means one thing in a bar, we know what that means. I'm gonna I don't want to use curse words, but we know what that means. Secondly, we have the text to back it up, and the text to back it up

is are you coming here? So now we know why John wants to go to that house, because now we have to go in from the mind of Brian Higgins, the guy who wasn't getting the attention from Karen, who had her her back to that whole side of the bar. She was facing John. She was facing the other way from where Brian and Brian and Chris and so forth were standing. So we have that. Now John from his standpoint is do i want to show that I'm afraid

of this guy? Then I'm afraid of this fat mofo as I'm gonna do, like Sean McDonough by the way, next week, So next week, when when you come on calling all being true crime and soft? One week from today at this time, you will have Sean McDonough, you will have Nurse Kim, you will have True Crime Kangaroo, and you'll have Miss Shorty and the first person who I built this round mas of media will be here. So next week will we will have this? And what

is Tom said? I'm coming from an ankle injury ad yesterday, Payne kicking in about now, I am two. I am fifty seven. Chris Albert, I am too, So he Itune fifty seven. Albert seems to try to escalate, de escalate. Yes, I agree with you, Tom. I believe that's what we were looking at right there. I believe that was some sort of a de escalation attempt. And like I said, you have a selectman, you had at least three police

officers that we know of. You wouldn't want there to be a fight inside the waterfall with police officers and selectman present. Okay, so now you have them. Oh you're going to the after party over thirty four Fairview. And now we have John's motivation to at least go there, because what he would have had to say to Karen in order for her to sit outside is I'm going in for a few minutes and I'll be right back. And then obviously she waited out there for ten minutes.

Whatever she said it was, she's probably looking and checking her phone and she's probably thinking, if this I am going home and he'll call me when he wants to ride. John's motivation was I'm gonna show these guys I'm not scared of this fat ass. That's what he's thinking is I want to show I'm not scared. There's no question in my mind that that's what happened. Here's where I'm gonna go from reasonably objective to subjective, and that's what

happened inside. And I'm not going to stray too far down this rabbit hole for the reason that we don't know exactly what happened. But there are some things that critical thinking and common sense can tell us. And here's what I mean by that. If Brian know, Brian a knows that Brian Higgins wants to fight this guy, and Chris, who I don't think went to the home, knows that. But Brian Albert certainly knows that he's texting this guy,

this Boston cop to come over here. Brian Albert knows that he wants to have some sort of an altercation, right, So if you're Brian Albert and you're a fighter yourself, and also I'll challenge that notion. Let me see if I can get both fingers in here in the camera. I will challenge the notion that Brian Albert is an MMA fighter. I don't. I have not seen any evidence or see anyone make a claim. I've heard a couple of analysts refer to him as an MMA fighter. I

don't know that he's an MMA fighter. First of all, I've trained MMA. I was a training partner for an MMA team. I am not an MMA fighter. I would never call myself an MMA fighter because in order to do that, I would have had to have competed in the cage in MMA fighting, and I didn't. I was just a training partner for guys. Okay, same with jiu jitsu, you know, I was a training partner for guys that competed. I don't consider myself a jiu jitsu fighter, but I

do have a lot of friends that are so. Brian Albert, by all accounts, was some sort of a boxer. Was he a competitive boxer, I don't know. Was he a dude that just went and sparred in the gym. I don't know did he actually compete. Maybe he did, maybe they had police boxing now, who knows, but I don't know. I have heard people refer to Brian as an MMA fighter. I have seen no evidence that Brian Albert was an MMA fighter. Not that it's material, but what it does

leads you. He's the mindset of a guy. And Sean McDonough has brought this up at nauseum about him beating up other cops, beating up up his guys that were on his team on the fugitive Recovery team. You know, he talked about I believe his name is Eddie Hernandez. But he's brought up guys that Brian has gotten in fights with other cops and he almost killed by smashing

him in the head with a bottle a Boston fireman. Okay, So that's those are things that we know and I trust if Sean tells you that, you can take it to the bank. So so now we're at the house. Now we have John walking in there trying to show that he's not scared. Okay, he's not scared of Brian Higgins. So if you're Brian Albert, what type of a scenario do you want to see here? You know, the type of a scenario that you would want to see is, if there is going to be a tussle, we're going

to go downstairs where I have a gym setup. Did Brian have a heavy bag down there? I don't know. Did he have a speed bag down there? Did he have a place where he could do work on his foot work in his hands? Maybe he did, Maybe he did to have that, I don't know, but he certainly had a by all accounts, he had at least a weight room in some sort of fitness room. So if there's gonna be a fight, you're not gonna have them

fight in your house proper. You're not gonna have him fight in the living room or in the kitchen, or in the den, or in the dining room, or in a bedroom or in a bathroom. You're gonna have him fight in the basement, or you're gonna see if somebody

wants to fight, go downstairs and have at it. That's what is most likely happened because we know why Brian, We know Brian Higgins wanted him to go over there, and we know why, and we know that John O'Keefe, why, as a man that's been having a few beers, why he would want to go over there to show I'm not afraid of you. Bro. Okay, I'm here. What are

you gonna do? I'm not afraid of you man. So now we have those are the things that we sort of we know leading up to it, we stares that Brian Brian Albert, considering himself a fighter or a tough guy or a guy who likes to get in fights, that he would want any altercation to occur somewhere out of the main part of his home where stuff can get broken. There's no nobody would Nobody would do that and say, yeah, fight in my living room. If you guys want to face down one another and see what's up,

then let's go down to the basement. That's how obviously we would end up in the basement. And of course Steve Scanlon, this is what he had told to if you know where he's to be believed, this is what he had told Ynetti days after Karen was charged. Now

I want to go to from there. I want to go to when actually John O'Keefe's body, God rest his soul, when he's found on there, and I want to say, I want to say, you know, justice for John O'Keefe, and I hope that you get it, man, I really do, because this is you know, there you go right there, Free Karen Reid, Justice for John O'Keeffe. It's awful what happened to this guy. He obviously is a great guy.

He's a flawed person like all of us. Who knows, you know, when our eye wanders, who knows you know about that kind of stuff. But he took on those he suffered loss, He took on those children and treated him like his own and man, what an awesome guy for doing that. So so now I want to get

to the part where the police come. So we I'm not going to go into the whole thing with the tail light, because you guys have all heard that, heard quite a bit about her backing out of the garage on the ring camera and she has seen bumping John's his Chevy traverse and there goes your crack tailte So that that that happened. Okay, we we know that. Now what I want to talk about is the police coming.

And what we're gonna go with here, folks, in this thought experiment is we're gonna go with the premise that the owner of the house is not a infamous, famous or infamous Boston Police officer sergeant of the future Fugitive Recovery Team, that he is, in fact a guy named Lion Smith. We're just gonna make up a name Lyonsmith.

So now the police arrive at this home, uh Canon police fire ems and nobody from the home is outside to speak with the investigating officers, who quickly figure out via his wife that this is Boston Police officer, which likely I'd imagine it Boston Police Officer John O'Keeffe. Now we have a really serious situation and the person or persons who own this home, who which they are unaware of, who that is what would be likely happen. So now

you're an officer on the scene. It's not a famous Canton family, the Albert family that everybody knows where they live, obviously because the Albert kids grew up there. It had been in there, that home had been in their family for over fifty years. So with that in mind, going to have the police are going to go knock on the door and go where is the owner of this home?

After they do a very brief interview with the witnesses, which would have been Carrie Roberts, which would have been Karen Reid, which would have been Jen and they would have tried to figure out what's going on. They would have asked Karen Reid, this is you know? She would have said, that's my boyfriend. How did he get here? And without question, she would have said, I dropped him off here last night after midnight, sometime after midnight. There's

no question that that would happen. Now we're going to go through the critical thinking exercise. What is the next thing that the Canton police are going to do? If they don't know who the owner of this home is? And there's the body that's still alive of a Boston police officer with blacked out eyes, with abrasions over his eyes, across his nose, his eyes were shut and looking like he got beat up. How is that? What is going

to be their response? Well, the first thing, and I submit this to you, and I ask you if you think I'm incorrect about this, and what Tom Finch here is saying, most guys grow up? Yeah, and move on from that. Now, I'm with you, and thank you so so much. If you're still watching Terry LND. I really appreciate this. We're gonna be keep doing true crime stuff. We've got. We've got a whole investigation that we did that has nothing to do with Karen Reid for missing

persons that we're gonna present. But being there, I just moved and I still got to go get my family. It's gonna take some time. Let's go back to the case. The logical thing that the police are gonna do. If they don't know who the homeowners, they're gonna call the dispatcher and they're gonna ask who owns the home? Who owns this thirty four fairview. They're gonna ask that question if they haven't already been told by dispatch who the

homeowner is. Who is not outside to greet fire ems police and a shrieking girlfriend who would have told the police on scene I dropped him off here last night. She would have told him that. The next thing that is going to happen that any intelligent, critical thinking human being is going to do is going to go up and go knocking on the door. Can police, would you open the door please? You know, ringing the doorbell, knocking

on the door. Eventually, the owner of the home. Who is not a famous Boston police officer, but it is mister Lyon Smith, and Lion Smith is going to answer the door eventually and say, hey, what's going on? Oh? We found there is a person incapacitated on your front lawn right there, guy dying on your front lawn. You know who that is? No, who is it? Oh? Well it's Boston Police officer John O'Keefe. Oh is it? Now? All the events that took place the night before are

in play. So the owner of the home, the not famous Lion Smith, and his buddy Lion Groggins was also there, but he is also, in this case not an ATF agent. He's a landscaper, okay. And they're all out at the bar at the waterfall. So was he in your house last night? Because they're saying there was some sort of a party here after the waterfall. Were you with him at the waterfall? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I was with him.

He never came in the house. Oh really, because his girlfriend over there just told me that she dropped him off here after midnight and then she waited ten minutes for him. He didn't come out, and she left and went back to his house. Nope, it's never in the house. Do you mind if we come in and look around, you know what, You're gonna have to get a search warrant. If you want to come in the house, we're gonna have to get a search warrant. Why is there you

have anything to hide anything, anything happened here? Nope, but I'm not letting you in unless you have a search warrant. Okay, okay, we have these units. We're gonna stay right here and we're gonna watch this team and we're gonna call the DA's office. This guy at the front lawn a Boston Police officer. We're gonna get a search warrant. We'll get inside this house. So don't disturb anything you can try, but we will have terming a team in here and

we will look at this house. We'll get a search warrant. So let's say, you know, eight hours later, maybe that someone comes and those officers switch out, nobody leaves, nobody comes in, and they have search warrant. This is where we can end this part of the case right here, because we know at least this aspect of the case, because we know what happens from here. From here, if you know, he John would have passed God rest his soul and on the way to the hospital, and he

would have they would have called the state police. The state police would have come in, they would have helped them. They would have even bolstered the case for a search warrant, and they would have gotten a search warrant, and they would have gone in that house. And if they went in that house, especially if they had brought a crime scene investigation team, there's no question once they got to

that basement, they were going to find blood. And if you know, even if they would have tried to bleach it out the luminol I have I've seen investigators in CSI units say, you can do whatever you want to do if this kind of blood is spilled, I'm going to find it. I'm going to find it. I'm going to find a drop of that blood. You can try as you may, get the steam cleaner out for the carpet, whatever you want to do, I'm going to find it.

And we all know that the only way to really with those blood stains is you can't really get rid of them yet to replace the carpet, well, they're not going to be able to do that, I'm afraid, and they will find them in the carpet fibers. They're not going to be able to do that in the in the span of time that they would have had between when they knocked on the door and when a search

warrant arrived. So we know that. So at this point they would have found So let's and that part of the case here and then we'll move on to the next part of the case. So the next part of the case is they would have those guys would have been brought down, they would have been put in interview rooms separated. They would have let those guys stew in

those rooms, unable to call everybody. They would have gotten the search warrants for the phones, so they would have had Lion Smith's phone, and they would have had Lion Goggin's phone that night. And who knows, they may have even gotten other people's phones, but at least those two.

They may have gotten more phones from more people who were in the home, whether it be the wife, whether it be the nephew, whomever was there that they once they had interviewed and found out, I want to know in the name of everybody that was in this house last night. So there would have been that then what would have happened is they would have known already that a lieutenant who is now deputy chief of Police in Canton lived across the street and had a ring camera

video and you all know, let's hear. So we got some something else from Tom here. Tom, I believe the call was already in not to go to the Alberts home. I think Jen was texting bro. Yes, No, there's no question. What we're trying to do with this thought experiment here, Tom, is we are trying to establish what would have happened if it was a non script Canton resident that owned the home. And so I use the name Lion Smith.

Obviously I'm trying to be tongue in cheek here. It could be Tom Jones who owned the home, but someone to whom the Canton police was not known who owned that home and lived at that address. Because we all know that the Canton police know quite well who owned the home and who lived at that address. So therefore, in order to go through the critical thinking experiment, this thought experiment here, we need to change the identity of the person who owned the home and the other you know,

who we believe is a co conspirator. We have to change those names to see how would the police have reacted if it were those persons. Are you with me? Hopefully everybody's with me now, mention let me know something in the comments if you don't understand, or if you have an opinion about what I'm saying, or you want something clarified, or if you have an alternative idea to what I'm saying. But I'm trying to play this out.

So the Canton police when they arrive after the nine to one one call by Jen McCabe, which is recorded on Karen Reid's phone which was in the back seat, off of John O'Keefe's voicemail himself, and her very calm voice calling nine to one one is mean on the lone at thirty filat you and all that I know. I've practiced that, and trying to distance herself, not saying he's my friend, and all the bs that she was saying in court, and then the second part where she

had to do it again because they forwarded her. And then of course the part where it seems as though she's saying help is on the way when she dials what was her sister's number. We don't know what her sister said, but it appears that she's saying help is on the way. So if you have a question comment, please put it up there. If you feel like blessing us, either with a super chat or a cash app, that would be awesome. And if you don't, that's also awesome.

And and we'll get you on you know, we'll get into it with you here. Let me check Twitter real quick. Okay, all right, so we're good on Twitter. So so with all that said, now, what are the next things that

the police are going to do? Yeah, if you mean in the real world, not in Kent, the next thing that they would do if they didn't know this homeowner is they're going they're going to already know that the then lieutenant and now Deputy Chief Keller Her lived across the street, and they're going to just go and knock on his door and say, hey, boss, you know, do you have an Obviously they're going to see that he has a ring camera, and obviously that lieutenant or deputy

chief whatever he was at that time, is then going to give them the foot that shows Karen Reid pulling up, It shows John O'Keeffe getting out, It shows looks like he's walking toward the door, and then it's going to show her leaving, and it may show him depending upon the angle of that camera. It also would show him entering the house and not coming out. And it also obviously would show when the ford Edge pulled up in

front of there. It would show Lucky going by, it would show the ford Edge, and it would show when the ford Edge was moved and the body was left. There was in the spot behind where the ford Edge

was sparked. So all that would have been on the Deputy chiefs camera, or it would have been on one of the neighbors cameras if that canvas of the entire street of anybody whose ring camera was within a degree angle in which it would capture activities in front Brian Albert's home, including including passing vehicles, including passing vehicles like I don't know, maybe a passing vehicle that had a right rear tail light that was still intact. Maybe maybe

right maybe. So this is the thought experiment that we're doing. So so far we've had two major things that would happen. One thing is no, would not have been the answer if they would have found a dead Boston Police officer on the lawn. The answer would have been, who are you, sir? Was he in your house? Because I have witnesses twenty five feet behind me that have just told me that he was dropped off here and he came in this house.

Next thing, now, the police officers go and they pull that video from the waterfall, that which is in the wonderful, wonderful micro Dots video. I want to say right now, it says here can't post comments to some destinations. And first of all, what that means, let me just say it here, I'm just kidding, okay, And what that means is if you are not watching us on YouTube, I would ask you if you would go to our YouTube and watch. And the reason is is it's good for

our metrics. And if you would take the time to just like and subscribe, that would be most awesome and I would greatly appreciate it. And I will toast you right now even though it's water because I'm not feeling that good, but I still want to spend some time with you tonight. So and we've got, you know, we got about twenty minutes left. So the next thing that's gonna happen with this not being a Boston police sergeant that owns thirty four Fairview. It's just a random citizen

from Canton. They're gonna go pull that video from the waterfall and they're going to analyze that video down to the nth degree, and then they are going to call these witnesses back to the Massachusetts State Trooper barracks and they're going to present that video to a mister Goggins and mister lin Smith, or we can use initials BA

and BH. Those videos would have been presented to them and they would have said something like, BH, looks like your looks like you're pointing at that uh, at mister O'Keefe over there, Officer O'Keefe, and it looks like you are mouthing something to him, and it looks like the Canton Town Selectman is trying to keep you from going over there. Do you want to tell us about that? And they would have pushed and pushed and pushed because to us, BH, it looks like you're calling him out

to fight. Is that what you're Is that what you're doing? Now, That's not what I'm doing. I'm not pointing him. Nope, that's interesting. Where you were you friends with? Uh? Were you friends with Officer O'Keefe and be like, you know, I know. Well that's interesting because we see you pointing at him, and then a dozen minutes later, you are at the Alberts home and you're texting Officer O'Keefe are you coming? Question mark? Question mark question mark? Why were

you doing that? Bh? Were you wanting to fight off Sir o'keef. No, that's interesting because we have texts between you and miss Reid that looks like you were trying to get something going with miss Reid? Is that right? Do you have any relations with miss Reid? No? That's interesting because she told us that you shared a kiss and then she was trying to kind of to break it off. So what happened? Were you? Were you pissed off at John O'Keeffe? You angry? Now, I wasn't angry. Oh,

you were angry? Then why were you there pointing at him like hey, mf R. Looked like you want to fight him? And then you're asking if he's going to come to Brian Albert's house and he's not friends with you nor Brian Albert, So why did you do that? So the hole just kids keeps getting deeper and deeper and for you Ba. You say he didn't come to

the house, right, Nope, never came to the house. Well, we have video that shows him exiting her car and coming in the house that we got from none other than our police lieutenant lives right across the road from you, you know, you know, Deputy Chief kell Her. Yeah, he's got a video that shows he did come in your house. So you better start explaining, because things are things are going to develop here real quickly in a way that

you don't you don't really want them to. So now you see, just from this point in the case, how different things look, how different things look. So we had the investigating officers from Canton that never found tellite pieces on the scene in those those pieces were found later and on multiple iterations, but they were not found the day of the accident, which clearly they would have been. And you could have taken a rake, you could have just brought in a space heater, put a tent up

and melted the scene. As those gentlemen from dooty Ron and Ed Wallace and Ed Wallace said, yeah, he goes. How do you think how do you think they processed crime scenes in Norway and in Greenland and Finland in Canada and all these northern tier states, Vermont, you know, New Hampshire, upstate New York where they get lots and lots of snow. You think they got it's snow, and you know, let's get out of backpack blower. If anything, you'd be blowing away evidence. Potentially, you wouldn't do that,

and surely the police officers wouldn't have done that. You would go and you would have gotten a tent, and you could have brought in a space heater, and you could have melted the entire third of that lawn with multiple tents, multiple space heaters and crime scene tape, and everything would have been revealed on the green Terra Firma that lay below. That's what would have happened if theer, if it was a lay person who owned the home and not an infamous Boston police officer, police sergeant. And

we all know this to be true. This is common sense, This is just simple critical thinking skills. This is not DJ the detective or DJ who actually, even though I was a law enforcement major, was I never became a law enforcement officer. I cannot consider myself even not even in the same universe, as a real detective and real law enforcement officer. This is just common sense, critical thinking that all of you have, even if you have a bias that makes you want to think that she did

it because you don't like her. So all we have is fake statements that say I did it, I did it, I did it. Where As Karen Reid said in that interview with ABC, she was asking that in question for him because obviously she's freaking out and she must have been trying to figure out what the hell happened here? Did something happen? Because what would have happened if she was waiting outside, which even lion Jen says that she was waiting out there, she would have been looking at

her phone. She would have been looking at her phone, which is what people do when they're not going anywhere and waiting for o'keef to come out. She would have been looking at her phone and then decided, Okay, I've had enough of this and that's it. I'm out of here. And that obviously, then she could have thought, what if he was in front of my car and I didn't see you know something, You know, everything goes through your

mind when you're freaking out like that. She was the only one who was not of sound mind because she really loved this guy. Despite how many fights they had and how many things went wrong, she loved this guy. And now she was looking at the specter of he was no longer there, and nobody else there cared about John. Only people that would lie under oath and say that he was a dear friend. You know, we all know

that that's not true because we're critical thinkers, right. We can look at somebody and we can know when they're fabricating and they're lying. It's pretty obvious. We all have the ability to do that. You all have the ability to do that, so you know, and it was obvious from the way the nine the nine to one one call. Had Karen been making that call, it would have been frantic and crazy. And it's not because she's not of

sound mind. It would have been because she loved this guy messed up as their relationship was just like my relationship with my wife. Sometimes we yelled each other and call each other names and it's embarrassing, and then you're embarrassed and you apologize. We've been together twenty one years so and we're going to be together for the rest of my life. However, long. That is so anyway, so

critical thinking, you can figure all this out. What would have happened if it were nondescript Canton resident and with whom the police were unfamiliar. The problem was is that they were familiar with who owned the home. And therein lies the problem, right, folks, therein lies the problem is because they knew who owned the home, and so things had to go a certain way so as to draw suspicion away from the homeowner. Had it been John Q

Public that own that home, that's what would happened. Knock knock, knock, knocking on the door. Can police here, open up? That's what's happening. That's what would happened. Open up? Can police here won't talk to you about what happened? What happened out here? Why is there a dead Boston police officer on your lawn? Do you know him? Had you been out with him? What do you know about what we're seeing here? Because witnesses behind me tell me that he

came in here. Then we're going to canvas the neighborhood. We're gonna pull all the ring camera video that we can. And according to Aiden Carney, there were a considerable amount of neighbors. I think he went and counted how many people had ring camera videos. I think he even approached one of the houses. So so that's what we have there, folks. That's that's you know, just again, I'm not you know, my plan was not to go through the entire case tonight.

My plan was to start at the beginning and go through steps that any logical person who's not impassioned by I love the police and on this show that this lady did it, because that's what they said, and that's that's just not how we do things right. That's not how critical thinkers think, and actual people who are trying to discover the truth about something behave you look at all the facts and say what makes sense. And as Judge Judy, our favorite television judge, always says, if it

doesn't make sense, it's because it's not true. And she's a brilliant woman. She's got over fifty years in the courts watching people lie to her, and it's amazing. It is amazing how many people lie under oath. It's just it's uncanny when you see how many people are willing to lie. I growing up fifty seven years on this planet, I never had a sense of how easily people lie and will fabricate something and injure another person's life. Well, let me say this, injure a person's livelihood or life.

People will lie and not even bad an eye about it. It takes a certain kind of person to do that, because there are people who can't live with themselves if they did something like that. And everybody who critically looks at this case knows what I just said. They know what happened. They know objectively what happened, they know subjectively

what they think. And they also know quite clearly what would have happened if the owner of that home was John Q. Public, who was unfamiliar to the Canton police officers, unfamiliar to the Massachusetts State Police trooper Michael Proctor, and merely just someone who is a neighbor of Tom Kelleher. We all know what would have happened in that case. We know what would have happened. We know that they would have knocked on that door, or we know that

they would have asked to see inside. We know that a guilty person would have said no and then uh, and then you know, even things like you know, micro dots put some of the weights from the garage, uh in the sink, And this is what he surmises. This is completely subjective. He surmises that you can see what looks like bleach on the counter and that they would

have bleached those weights. Well, if you're putting together a case and you're you're looking for probable cause and you're looking to create reasonable doubt and things like that, you know, a police officer and police detective would say, hey, ba, usually bleach your weights. Usually take equipment from your gym and bring it to this And I'm not saying this happened. We're we're surmising here, right, I'm not saying that this actually happened, because we don't know that that happened. This

is just something he's guessing. But just for that sake, this is how they would treat it. Do you usually bleach your dumbbells and your plates from your gym? Is that normal in your house? Oh? No, you know, yeah, sometimes we you know, we like to keep our weights really clean. You don't want to spread illness between the family. Yeah. It also is something that people tend to use when

they're trying to clean up blood. Usually what they'll try to do is bleach things, you know, if it's clothing, you know, they'll try to bleach it out, or they'll burn it. They'll go and take it and throw it in a dumpster fifteen miles away, something like that. You know, all these things would have come into play, you know, owner of the home. Oh you're you know, if they were, I mean, they would have already charged this individual before

because they would have already found all the evidence. So there would not have been away or reason for them to try to tear up the basement floor there and have all the floors redone. There's no reason because they would have already gone in there with the CSI team. They would have turned the lights out, they would have sprayed the lumin all, they would have turned on the black light, and they would have seen blood spatters wherever

mister O'Keefe fell, Officer O'Keefe. So that is not in question that all would have been discovered before they had a chance to get rid of Chloe, before there was a chance to get rid of cell phones, because they would have gotten the phones before there was an opportunity to put the home up and sell it sixty thousand dollars below market value. All of those things would have occurred in well, I mean, they would have been in that house within twenty four hours. They would have gotten

a warrant. There's a dead Boston Police officer on your lawn. The owner of the home says he was not inside. We have a witness. The witnesses, uh, we have a witness. The girlfriend of the deceased officer says she dropped him off and watch him walk in the damn house. Case closed. Now you find the blood, then we can back it up. Then we can start pulling. Then we pull the waterfall video. Then we get all the ring cameras, including from the

deputy chief. All those get pulled. We've we've got her driving up, We've got him walking the house, and he doesn't come out. Then mysteriously, you know, the snow starts. We have that, and then we have a ford edge being pulled up. We don't see anything else. I don't know. Maybe the ford edge was used to shield activities from people's ring cameras, not that that would happen right and then and then as soon as that ford edge leads there's a body there, and that that also potentially could

be on a ring camera footage. But the individual driving that car. We don't know who that is, Turtle Boy tell you that all the time. Don't know who was in that ford Edge, But they could have seen who was in that ford Edge potentially, or at least got a really good look at who it was, you know, and maybe a description that they could then cross reference against video like at the waterfall clothing perhaps you know, it depends, but you could certainly get a sense of things.

You could certainly see that there was nobody there and then there was a body there. Had that happen? So just doing thought experiment using critical thinking skills in logic. I know there's a content creator out there that says that all the time, but these are the kinds of things that they don't do. This is what would have happened if the only of thirty four Fairy View was John Q. Public, not a famous police officer, not the brother of a selectman, not the brother of a Canton

Police Department detective. That's what would happen, and then the case assault. So unless the Feds have something that shows that, then I think the most that we can hope for I don't know that we can hope that justice for John O'Keeffe will be served and put that up there. We don't know that we're going to get justice for

John O'Keeffe. I pray that we will, because I don't know that the Feds have that evidence that could implicate whomever is responsible for that fight that would more overwhelmingly likely have happened in the basement of the home, but certainly somewhere within the confines of the home, and then the body would have been placed outside. And so I don't know if we'll get justice for John O'Keeffe, but we can hope to free Karen Reid. That as a minimum we can hope for, and I do so with that,

we'll cut it off here for tonight. Everybody. I want to thank you so much for joining me and having a watch. If you have comments, please hit me up on Twitter. You can see my handle there at Call All Beings. We do a couple different genres of shows, but one of them is obviously true crime unsolved, and boy, that's what we have right here with Karen Reid, true crime that is not solved, case that was not made.

Next week you will see Sean McDonough, the supervis agent at Leopardo eight on twitter x John will be here, thank god he confirmed today. That will be great for us because we don't have a legal analyst, so Sean is going to play law enforcement and legal analysts. And what we do on these calling all Beings round tables is everybody will be required to bring a topic, a question,

or a hypothesis to the group. So you'll bring that and then everyone in a circular format will have an opportunity to answer or speak to that topic, question, or hypothesis. We will then have some free discussion and we will catch your comments in the chat. So joining Sean will be the first member whom we built this around. So I usually do this because I don't want to necessarily feature one person over another. It's a blessing that anyone of these people want to come on with me or us.

In this case, Courtney won't be here this week. She's going on a little birthday trip. And as far as our our show, we have a guy that we call him Money Nathan. He is at a waf soul on twitter x. He is the one who creates everything you see here and makes cab for three years look the way it does. So once again, joining Sean, the first person who we built this roundtable around was the great Mark Masa Media. We need the FEDS to come through. Great show, great show. Thank you. By the way, UFC

Big big fight tonight. Oh okay, I'll check who's on UFC tonight. I hadn't seen who it is. Put it in the chat if you would, Tom, who's fighting tonight? I used to cover UFC. It's I started podcasting and kind of like getting Sean right out of the box. The first interviews I ever did in MMA was Claig Gweeda and Donald Cowboy Seroni at a local event where the first two interviews I ever did in MMA. So I don't start small, I start big and I will go after the big fish and say, hey, would you

like to talk to me? And I can't even tell you how many UFC fighters coaches that I interviewed over the years. It was really just the way they were treating the fighters made me decide not to support the UFC anymore. But I love the fighters and the competitors and they're amazing people, both the men and the women. And I mean I had UFC fighters stay at my house. I mean, I can't even go into all of my connections with the UFC over the years. So Mark Masamedia,

who you know is at masa media? Oh Isy versus Duplessis. Oh great, So this is gonna be a middleweight middleweight bout Israel Adisania from I think he's from Australia and New Zealand and Duplessis is he's a European. Actually I think he's from Australia also or New Zealand. So key, we are azzy, so forgive me, but thank you. So anyway, so yeah, it's going to be Sean. But who we built this surround was mas of Media, and then Nurse Kim decided that she would join us. And then I

met a woman from Australia. Thank you very much, Demart. I appreciate you. Brother or sister. I'm gonna say brother though, because you've got a name, de Mart, you probably are brother male and not female. So a lady from Australia. She is true crime kangaroo named Lily. And she contacted me and said we should get together and talk South African. Oh thank you, dupleus. He's a South African, thank you, brother. And you know she had on Sean. I believe I

know somebody had on Sean. I believe it. It might have been Miss Shorty, but anyway, both of them are coming on. Both the Aussie ladies will be on, so we'll have three guys and we'll have three ladies. Oh you're female, all right, Well, thank you, de Mart. That's awesome. That's awesome. I love that. I had one of my mission commanders when I was in the Air Force, when I was in Air Force Special Ops, was Kmart. So I love those kind of names. My name DJ is an Air

Force nickname. My real names back in home in New York, they call me Dave. Uh. And even when I go home to Massachusetts go to Dean, my nickname there was Kazoo, which is a whole another story. And they also will alternatively will call me Dave. So yeah, it's not on her to be a Dave. But DJ is a Air Force construct uh. And now I keep it because I'm known in the industry. In aerospace industry, I'm known as DJ, so I just kept that as my professional name, I guess. Anyway,

love you guys, Thank you so very much. I really appreciate you, and I look forward to seeing you next. Next Saturday Night with Sean with Masa with Nurse Kim, with Lily from True Crime, Kangaroo and with Miss Shorty. So there'll be six of us total, and we should have a great round table. Everybody's gonna be required to bring a topic. It won't be just a free for all. They're gonna have to ask a question to the group.

It's how we do it. It's how the Cab round tables have been done for three years, and that way everybody gets equal time. Everyone will have to comment on everyone else's topic and everyone else will have it and everyone will have a question that they'll get to hear everyone's opinion on. So I also will have to come on the topic. So anyway, thank you so much, love you guys. I appreciate the support and we look forward to seeing you next Saturday night. One love, peace out.

As we always say on Cab, let me get my fingers in here, Oh boys, peace out, one love. We'll see you down the road, and we always wonder what's up around the Bend.