Grant Cameron

Calling All Beings, y'all. Yeah, welcome back to Calling All Beings. I'm DJing your host alone with my co hosts, the man known as Money. That's up, everybody, Happy Sunday, Happy Daylight Savings Sunday to all of you and North America somewhere. Good afternoon, Money. Also, we're gonna say hello to the man with maybe maybe maybe the greatest hair in all of you. UFO Twitter content creation, the sexy, the funny, the incomparable, flarious Kevin, what's up? Holmes? Hello, good morning.

I'm working on my intros a little bit. You know it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen, man, allright, no doubt. And now and now another person who's incomparable her appetite for this topic, Nathan will not be satiated, it will, Her thirst will not be quenched. She is the host of Deb's Data Dojo. Puts your hands together for deb at a study of UAPs Hi everybody, Holmes, Cameron, Now, let's let's bring on the man himself. What we're talking about here is a Canadian original gangster of the

UFO topic. Put your hands toick yeah for mister Grant camera Yeah, Amen, Amen, Welcome, Welcome, mister Cameron. What's up, brother, Lots going on. I'm pretty busy and we're just coming into spring here, and I'm excited to talk about some stuff that I'm working on right now. Oh well, we're gonna have to get right up into a money Nathan. Yes, Grant, so again, thank you so much for joining us today

and really thrilled to have you with us. And I thank you to all those who are listening live on YouTube right now or whoever might be listening later in the future. Grant, You've been in this game for a long time. You've been researching for over forty years, starting out with something that kind of catapulted you into the topic, your own experience in Canada, kind of

a nuts and bolts researcher for many years. I'm also focusing heavily on kind of the secret keepers and how the who who was given the information the White House UFO angle. But then you had a as I understand it, a pretty transformative experience in twenty twelve. It really kind of shifted gears for you into looking at it from the consciousness aspect, and we see that in a

lot of places now as well. I would like I would love to hear kind of just your perspective looking back on that journey and why consciousness itself is such a big focus for you right now. Well, yeah, it's been a long trip. It's been almost fifty years basically my whole life. When I had the experience, I basically sort of lost it. I mean I

just basically quit university. I kept going to university, but I was just really not interested anymore and really didn't know what I was doing in university or what I was going to make money. I was going to make money with all this stuff. But I had the experience, as you mentioned, which was very transformative. It was the old story that once you have the experience,

it's like you're sort of you're down the rat hole. And we used to over the years, we'd have a lot of people who'd say, oh, the guy's quit, he's never coming back, and we always go, yeah, or he's coming back. No, nobody gets out of this thing, and it's like it's that kind of thing where you can't really shake it. You know, people get divorced, you have all sorts of problems.

They can't deal with people because they're different people. And I thought I sort of knew what was going on. I was doing what everybody else is doing. Now, is this sort of nuts and bolts aspect. I was chasing the President of the United States. Because when I had my experience, the first night I saw it, it was very, very sort of I fell off the edge of the earth. I couldn't believe what I was seeing. And then the second night it came directly at us, and this is not

a light in the sky, this is an object. It was in pretty close, came right at us and made this left hand turn. And I remember as it was flying off into the north, I said to myself, what's it doing. It's not doing anything. It was just it was so weird. It's like it came to Carmen, Manitoba, Canada, which is like the middle of nowhere, Like, what the heck is it doing in Carmen. I could not figure it out. Later, we had this idea that had something to do with nuclear weapons and stuff, but in the end

result I thought it had to do with me. Because there was a film that was taken. If you're familiar with the description of the Knimts encounter, where it drops from eighty thousand feet down to sea level in seven eighths of a second. Well, what got me involved was a TV crew from CKY, which is a TV studio here in Winnipeg. I'd gone out to film this thing and they caught it jumping from the ground to five thousand feet in the air in one eighth of a second, and they caught on film.

Now this film is around jail and Hannett got two copies. It's sort of has disappeared. There's there's one copy. If you look at the documentary, uf will cover up live. It's in there. No, no, no, it's no, it's in UFO UFOs. It has begun. Jacques Valet actually narrates it nineteen seventy nine. It's in the film. Is in there anyway, So I had to and I was chasing, and I said, what's it doing? You know? And I wrote a book. Nobody was interested in the book. And then I said, Okay, this sighting stuff

is a bunch of garbage. And still I believe a bunch of garbage will tell you basically that UFOs are here. Something's going on. I even just got a one hundred and sixty pages from Transport Canada. Here in Canada, one hundred and sixty pages of UFO sidings. Nobody's asked for me for them. I read about two pages and got bored with it. It was like

same old thing. Lights in the sky, jets were scrambled, they didn't see anything, and it's like, you know, we had a million sightings, now we've got a million and a million and one hundred and sixty sidings. So I sort of got depressed after nobody was interested in all these sightings. There are a lot of sightings in the town that I had the experience in and nobody would publish it. And so I said, okay, let's it with sightings. I'm just gonna I want to know what was that thing

doing in Carmen and what's what's going on here? What is this thing? So I started this pursuit where I chased the Canadian government. Then it went to the former president of Pennstead University who actually knew what was going on, and people like kid Green went after him, as helped put Off went after him. We were the first to deal with this guy, and he basically talked in rhymes and riddles to us about why should we change the rules to

satisfy your curiosity? He knew exactly how this thing had been set up. He was there when it got set up. He had fourteen honored doctor degrees, chairman of the board of the Institute for Defense Analysis. And I'm chasing this whole story, and I'm trying to figure out somebody's got to know what's going on here. And that led me to the President of the United States. And that's where I figured, Well, the president's the most powerful guy

in the world. I mean, he's got all these clearances, they're checking all this stuff. They got to be telling the president what's going on. So I chased the presidents for why. Actually, I'm still chasing him because I've just filed all the Freedom Information Act requests with the Obama administration that just came forward last month January twenty First you could file for the material, So I filed about thirty FOIA requests for Obama. Because Obama was by far and

away the biggest president on UFOs. All the names, tell me about this story, tell me about Jason or Jaden Smith, what happened there in the situation room, All these these sort of stories where Obama talks about UFOs. And then in twenty twelve, as you're saying, I basically got everything flipped around. For me, I was sort of like spinning my wheels. I think the vast majority of the UFO community is doing just sort of gathering material

rout and really not knowing what's going on. And it was there where I was. I was at a lecture in Phoenix, Arizona, where Colin Andrews was talking about the crop circles. And he's the guy that invented to turn crop circle, saw the first one in nineteen eighty two, you know,

chased this whole thing and basically came to this conclusion. He had Rockefeller gave him money, and they investigated people who had done the hoaxes on crop circles, and they'd run around and talk to these guys, and he came to this conclusion of twenty percent of crop circles were legitimate, eighty percent were hoaxes.

But in this lecture, what he was saying was, well, the people that were doing the hoaxes actually got this idea in their head, and so the beings were actually creating the crop circles from the hoaxers as well. They're telling the hoaxers put down. So that was the lecture, and it was I wrote a book called Contact Modalities where I talk about the fact that

I believe that all the materials in the field. Forty percent of all UFO experiencers will say at one point during their experience they knew the answer to everything in the universe. Near deth experience people thirty one percent at one point during their experience say they knew the answer to everything in the universe. So the whole concept in contact modalities is that all the material is there. It's the ability to access the field, get in there, get the material, and

come back out. Whether you're doing channeling, whether you're doing you know, near death experience, psychedelics, whatever you're doing, you're going in the field. You're getting, getting whatever you can and bringing it back. So I had the contact modality I always used as zoning out. I ran DJ was talking about running. I was just running earlier, but an hour ago I came back. And so what I do is I do a lot of walking

and I do a lot of running. I'll do three three hours a day and basically that's when I zone out, and that's when I get all sorts of insights. And I called them sort of it's like a flow state where I know, I know to get the pen out. I know I'm in a flow state, and stuff starts to come to me. And so what happened was that I was in the Colin Andrews lecture and one of the contact modalities is daydreaming. So you'll find that when you're in a in a lecture

like this, where I wasn't interested in crop circles. The only reason I went into the lectures because Colin Andrews was this famous crop circle guy, and I figured, well, and there's this big controversy about the fact that he said eighty percent of all crop circles were hoaxed. People were booing him and they were, you know, he was having a real hard time. So I said I should go watch this lecture. And I go, I really not, Nah, I'm gonna go, and no, I'm not gonna go.

So I finally I said, Okay, I'm gonna go into a lecture. Because this is at UFO Congress in the days when it was eight eight days long, and you go to some lectures, you don't go to some lectures. It goes on forever, day, day and night for a week. So I decided, okay, I'll go in there. I wasn't addressed that I was sitting there. I'm thinking about, Oh, I'm going to go across the Bullhead City, Arizona, and I'm gonna go to library, and we may able to go for coffee, and I'm picking up all these

other things, and I zoned out. I wasn't paying attention to the lecture. And that's when it came to me. And it was nothing new. A lot of these flow states, downloads, whatever you want to call them, come to people when, for example, the laser came like this, and so did the hologram. Both the guys won them the Bell Prize where they worked on the problem. They worked on the problem, they worked on

the problem. They coudn't figure out, they couldnt figure it out, and they went and the one guy Towns was sitting outside a restaurant waiting for the restaurant to open, on a park bench, and suddenly the idea just popped in his head. Just everything came together instantaneously. And the guy who did the the gabor who did the hologram, was sitting there watching people play tennis.

Same thing he was trying to figure out, try to figure couldn't figure it out, was sitting there watching these people pay tennis and quieted the left brain, the rational analytical brain, which is causing the noise in the signal. The signal is there everybody, but the left brain is causing this thing in the signal. So I'm zoning out, I'm not really paying attention and they just boom them is instantaneously three things came into my head, all at

the same time. They all had to do with consciousness and UFOs. And one was in nineteen fifty the Canadian government, Wilbert Brockout Smith, who was running the program, had gone to the Americans and he'd asked the American officials, not people on the street, not ordinary people, officials, and he'd written this top secret memo and he said, we were told by American officials

the following things. Number One, flying saucers exist. It's the most highly classified subject in the United States. There's a small group headed by doctor Van var Busher. You're trying to figure out the modus operendi. The subject is a tremendous significance to the Americans. And then the line that came into my head instantaneously after that was the very next line in the document, which said, we were also told by American officials that other things might be associated with

the flying sauces, such as mental phenomena. And the Americans aren't doing very well because they've said if we were working on the problem, they're willing to exchange credentials and talk to us. The thing is the mk Ultra started six months later after that statement in the top secret memo. It happened in Montreal, in a hotel in montre All, Canada, sixty miles down the road

from Ottawa. And doctor Oman Salant, who was in the UFO program, was in that meeting with the CIA and with the British and with the mk Ultra, and mk Aultra was the whole deal is consciousness is important. We got to figure ot how this thing works, and they were working on consciousness. They weren't working on maybe brainwashing is part of it, but it was

this whole idea that they knew. Because the whole idea was nineteen fifty nobody had talked to an alien yet a Damski and Williamson would not come forward till nineteen fifty two, So how did anybody know that telepathy, that mental phenomena was involved. The American officials probably had a live alien from Roswold. They realized there was no steering wheel in the craft, you don't fly it that way, and they realized there was some sort of mental component of flying the

craft. That's why in nineteen fifty they already knew that mental phenomena is involved. They couldn't figure it out and they still can't really figure it out.

So that was the first thing he came in I had. The second thing came into my head was doctor Eric Walker, where I mentioned one of the guys we chased for eight years, very very powerful guy, worked with did an engineering study for President Eisenhower, very very powerful guy, and he said, at one point, we're talking to you about the MJ MJ twelve and we were asking him are there still just twelve guys and is it just an American group or is it an international And he says, hey, let me

ask you a question. What do you know about ESP and what do you know about the seventh cent What do you know about ESP? And the guy who was inter from Great Britain really didn't have an answer, and he said, look, unless you understand about ESP and how it works. You will not be taken in by the control group. Very few people understand how this works. And so there and we didn't know at the time. That was

nineteen ninety one. I had no idea what he was talking about. And suddenly in twenty twelve and this Colin nineers actually I go, oh, now I know Walker, That's what he meant, That's what he was talking about. It was the same thing as this mental phenomena thing that Canadians were talking And the third was Jan Harrison, who was the international director of NEWFAM has this lecture nineteen ninety three, goes to see Ben Rich, who is the

head of Lockheed Skunk Works. He was always rumored to be the back engineering of the flying saucers. And ben Rich says, we've now got the technology to take et home. It's not going to take a lifetime, but it's going to take an act of God to get this thing out of Congress. And Jan Hartson is with his other engineer and he's gone, can you believe?

Can you believe what he's saying? And it goes up and he had an experience when he was ten years old in the backyard fifty feet away from a flying saucer with his brother, and he always wanted to build a flying saucer and he became an electrical engineer to do this, and so he was fascinated. He went to Ben as Ben was leaving the building and he said, Ben, I've been fastening my whole life. How does it work?

How does the propulsion system work? How did they get here? And Ben Rich turns around he says, exactly to the words, exactly what Walker had said two years before in nineteen ninety one. He said, let me ask a good question. Well you know bodsp and Jan Hartson said, means everything in time and space is connected. And Ben Ritch said that's how it works, and he walks out of the building, gets in his car and drives away. Now we've had other indications since then. Tom DeLong talks about going

to the skiff. He's taken in the LA into the skiff and he's talking to these guys and they're asking, what about this conspiracy website you've got, And he's trying to talk out of this stupid like QAnon website thing he was running in twenty twelve. And then I had scientist said, look, I just want to know I'm all interested in is how do how does it work? That's all I'm interesting, how does this thing work? And then he's and he was hanging around with Greer at the time, so that and Greer

is big into consciousness. So he says, oh I can consciousness is bold and he said the head scientist said, now you're talking, and he said, that's all the head scientists wanted to talk about for forty five minutes was consciousness. So that was the flip that So that flipped me. In twenty twelve, it was like the world had just flipped on its head again. It was like I for two days, I walked around and my head was just spinning. I couldn't believe. I didn't know what consciousness was. I

thought it was consciousness. I didn't realize it was non local consciousness. So the idea develop more and more as it went along, and more stuff came to me to fill in the gaps. And in twenty thirteen we were talking about this just before the show. That's when the first woman came. I was in Phoenix. I was giving my first, one of my first consciousness lectures at the big New Fund group in Phoenix, was a big, very giant group there and uh, Stacy, who runs the group, says to

me, are you still going to talk to Pam Depueet? And I said, yeah, I guess. So I figured I must have agreed to talk to someone I don't know who she is. And that's good. She's coming to my house on Monday and you'll meet her there. And so I said, okay, whatever. So Pam comes to the to the to the door with her with her partner and she says, so, what'd Stacy tell you about me? I said, I don't know. She just said you wanted to talk to me and it was important, and she said, yeah,

it's good. She comes walking in. She's talking about I was a doctor, I was with a diaper and the beings were there and all this sort of stuff. And she's going on and I remote you for the government. She's going through all the stuff and it's like, whatever, I've heard this stuff like a thousand times ago. Going and so she and she's in her seventies and then she says to me, oh, and I was flying the

craft last night. I went, you are what and she says, I was flying the craft and I was all I could think of was Saudi Arabian women who aren't allowed to drive it. And now it's different, but they weren't allowed to drive a car unless their brother or a man was in the car. And I'm going they let you fly the flying saucer. I just believe I was listening to this. They let you fly flying saucer. He

says, yeah, I've flown three different models. And I said, they let you fly the flying saucer, but you fly a flying saucer, and she says, you do it with your mind. And as soon as she said that, I knew, I knew why they had set me up to talk here because I was doing this consciousness thing. And that led to this book that's about to come out called The UFO Skypilots, where I gather three thousand people from all different professions US Air Force retired Colonel seven four seven United

Airlines pilots, mostly women, which is kind of weird. I mean, you know, if you're a Saudi Arabian woman and you get abducted, they'll, you know, you'll let you fly the craft. No no brother in the car in this craft, no insurance, no license, nothing, just go ahead and fly it. And it came to this whole thing. Why are they allowing people to fly the craft or the other thing that you see off And if you go back to experiences, which is the key to this

whole thing, you got to talk to the experiences. The people are the beings. They'll describe children and sitting in a room in a circle and playing this game and they're being taught to levitate things. And there's these three different colored balls and they're levitating these three different types of balls. And you see this this sort of thing that people are being trained to do this kind of stuff. So that's basically what the consciousness saying. And nothing has ever really

gone wrong since that consciousness saying. Everything that I've gotten in the surf flow states, nothing has ever turned out to be wrong. I had the twenty and twelve experience, then I had the one in twenty seventeen. Again, I'm walking. I'm walking downtime, which is six mile walk. I go for coffee two miles in and then I keep walking and I know exactly I

can't remember exactly what year was. I think it was twenty seventeen, but I'm walking down the street and the flow state starts and I go get get a pen and start writing this stuff down. And there was twenty four things that were given to me, one after another, and it was cold. I take my glove off. I was writing this on this piece of paper, and luckily I did. Because it's like a dream. You will not

remember it if you unless you write it down. So I wrote all this stuff down and it was basic, the whole idea of At one point they said, not only have you got it wrong, it's exactly the opposite of what you think it is. And it was this idea. Is the world made out of nuts and bolts. If it is, that's one world, and that has all certain rules and regulations. But it's made out of consciousness, that's a completely different world, and it's got different rules and regulations.

Everything's going to change. Is it. Is it one life? If it's one life, then that's one one set of circumstances. But if it's multiple lives, everything changes. Is it random? If it's random, it's one world. But if it's pattern, if it's all falling a pattern, it's a different world. It was these twenty four things. Is it this? And this is the idea? You think it's this exactly, it's exactly the opposite idea, and all that has turned out to be true as well.

None of that has ever turned out to be wrong. So I've used a lot of this flow state stuff where I know when I get the flow state, it usually starts where I could feel it coming. Then I wrote right down one idea and then it starts to flow, and I madly write this stuff down, and I never in I've got maybe a thousand pieces of paper. I never reread the pieces of paper. Once I write it down,

then it's sort of in my mind. And that's where I'm working. And so I say, at the bottom line is the experiencers are the people who are in the field. Did the beings have shown them how to get in the field? And a lot of that may have to do with disassociation. And I make the joke, why does an alien come into your room and scare the living daylights out of you? I mean, why would it?

Wake up? Wake up? Wake up, come on, wake up, and they wake up in as soon as you wake up, to put your hand on your head and say, okay, go back to sleep, and you go back to sleep again. And I think that may be part of this dissociation thing. It's this trauma, this dissociation, ripping the veil, getting you ready to go. And the more I see, the more I realize that it is not the world we think it is. I call it the fourteen ninety two dilemma. It looks like the world is flat, it

looks like the sun goes around the earth. It looks like everything's solid. It looks like there's aliens coming from out there. There may not be any time, There may not be any space, especially when you look at out of body experience material where you take a look at the out of body experience, which a lot of experiences eighty percent of all experiences say they've had an out of body experience, and that's not everybody, but it's getting pretty close.

And then you start wondering, is this actually an event or is this is this an out of body experience? Is there really a physical world? Is there really a physical reality? Or are we in these different realities? Because if you take a look all to end at this, if you take a look at the nearness experience, if you have not a near well nearness experience, the same thing, but if you have an out of body experience

where you leave your body and you look back at your body. You can see your body there, and you can see the head which has the brain in it. And then you go, is consciousness in the brain And you go, oh, it's not in the brain. Your body is in your consciousness. Your consciousns is there. You can see the brain, the brain. The conscious is not in the brain. Is your sight in your eyes? We have these kids who do the blindfold. No, because you're seeing

and so you can even actually look around and you see the alien. Is the alien out there? No, the aliens in your consciousness. Look out the way it's nighttime. You see the stars in the planets. Is that stuff out there? No, it's in your consciousness. And that's what Deepak Troper says. Now you start to see this holographic universe, the simulated universe, the beings in Great Britain. AT's say it's all an illusion or Deepak

Troper says, everything's in activity inside consciousness. And that's where we're going in eufology. That's I think the big secret is that it is not the physical world we think it is. It's this very complex thing that is all inside. If there's no time in space, and I've had lots of people who've

flown the craft, who will talk about unbelievable things. You can do instantaneous movement from one point of the universe to the other, if there's no time in space, If everything's inside your awareness, inside your consciousness, how big is the universe? You're in my consciousness, I'm in your consciousness. Everything is as they said. Greer used to use the expression the Sufi poet who said you see yourself as a puny form when the universe is folded within you.

If that is true, if the universe is within you, or as John Wheeler, the famous quantum physicists said, there's no out there out there if it's all inside. The whole world is a different world than what we think it is. We're just making these illusions. We think it looks solid, we think it looks flat. We think the sun's going around the earth. We think there's only five thousand stars, there's only one galaxy. And the more we realize, the more we realize that we have got it wrong,

almost like they've mutilated the whole scientific method. The kart. When you start looking at Rennie Decart, what he said was not be skeptical of new ideas. He said he was skeptical of all the material that he had been taught. I have to tear down my former life, and that's the thing we are. We can't give up the stuff we learned in school, and

all these ideas, we won't drop them. And because you have anomalies or Gary Nolan from who works with the you know, the Visual College people, he does the DNA stuff, he said, it's the five percent anomalies that he's interested in because it's the five percent anomalies that tell you there's something wrong with the way we're viewing stuff. And when you figure out the five percent

anomalies, you're gonna win them the Bell Prize and have the inventions. As long as you continue to believe that everything you've got is right, you're never going to go anywhere. Love it, DJ, I think you're on mood. That's right, Thank you, brother. Yeah. Not only was uh it amazing to be able to get you on the show, but the topics that you're covering I analogize to like going to Albuquerque and getting a Mexican soap a pia, and the soap apia comes out and it's a warm piece of

sort of pastry bread. It's not flaky and then when they bring you over the honey or the spicy honey. Because for Nathan, you talking about consciousness and different realities. This is like he's got the warm soap apia and now he's gonna dip it in that honey, and now I'm really really hungry.

Yes, this is just like you're You're right in his wheelhouse everything and so and so, Nathan and I were having a discussion, uh of consciousness that has gone throughout the weekend, and I pose this question to him today. So I'll pose it to you with regard to consciousness, do you suppose because you know, we all, I think everybody that's on this cat this broadcast

today believes that when this physical body passes, our consciousness will remain. And my question to you would be, is there agency as to where that consciousness goes and what it does? We talk about spirits that are in a house that that that seemed to be UH want to affix themselves to a physical place and then interact with people that that inhabit the home. But but do you think that consciousness uh has agency? Your consciousness mind? Everyone here? Okay,

So I go much more fundamental. There is no out there, out there, there is just consciousness. So when you read Bielman, if you interview Bielman, who's the top guy on iudabout experience, he's the one that first triggered this with me. He said, you're not going anywhere. You're going within yourself. When you die, you go within yourself. There's no out there out there. The time and space is this whole weird thing is what happens if it's all inside your consciousness. So you're going within. And

I'll give you an example. I have an AI friend of mine who's an AI expert, and we got into the psychedelic thing. I wrote a book on psychedelics. I did sixteen high dose sessions of psilocybin and recorded everything as it was going on and stuff like that. And he was doing the DMT stuff and he contacts me the one day and I knew this STATUD already existed, but he said, I had a classic abduction experience last night. And

I said, you did what? He said? Yeah? I said, well that was the story that when when Strassman did the DMT experiments, he had this thing where fifty percent of all the people said they had seen beings and they're lying on a couch. This is ten minutes in a DMT thing. And and strawsman is going, have you been abducted? Do you think you've been abducted? And going no, I don't think so, I don't.

And and so when this AI guy said, I said, well, tell me exactly what this is. What is what do you mean classic? He said, it was classic abduction tape. I'm on a table. I can't see the beings, but I can see their arms, and they're working on my head there. It's like you always hear this thing. They're working on your brain or something. And I said, really, And so where did he go? He didn't go anywhere. He was lying on a couch.

And yet he said, and everybody will say, whether it's psychedelics, where there's near death experience, where they's ought about experience, that's the real world. We think, oh, it's just an illusion. No, they'll say, that's the real world. You're in the illusion. This was more real than the real world. And you start to get this. So the whole thing is there, it's there is no separate and consciousness. So because

we again we're buying into these these religious ideas, scientific ideas. The idea of materialism was raised by Karl Marx, who invented communism in eighteen forties. In eighteen forties, that's when he came up with the idea of materialism. Before there was the idea, no idea of materialism, that there's just this material thing and so we have we And the biblical thing plays into the same game. Is God created the heaven and the earth, and then he took

took them and then he breathed in a soul. Well, no, if you look at the new stuff, this the idea of the simulated universe and the holographic universe, it's all consciousness. So what I would say, and my bottom line would be, there is just consciousness. It's all made out of consciousness. And God did not create the heaven and the earth. God split off the particles, the sparks of the divine and they created the heaven

and the earth because it's all made out of consciousness. We're creating the heaven and the earth. It's all created, and so we have to get away I think with from the idea that there's this physical with that's infested with consciousness, when in fact it's the the whole idea of the dual slid experiment that the material does not appear until there's an observer. It's all being created by consciousness. There is no or a deepak troper sense. Everything is an activity

inside consciousness. And yeah, I want to think Sothan Nathan studied divinity. I'd like to, if you don't mind, get his take on what you just said regarding God's role in all this and consciousness. Well, I mean, if I understand your grants, I think that what I'm from what I've read as well, that God is just a word that we're using. It's just a it's it's a label that we've used as in our religious traditions that really kind of describes source and consciousness being mind at large. I mean,

that's essentially God. But what I would be curious about is do you think of mind at large as in any way sort of anthropomorphic or is it just kind of, as as you said earlier, just this foundational state of existence. It doesn't have its own particular agency like you and I do, but it is kind of the well spring from which all other individuated consciousnesses derive.

Yeah, well, that's the thing, is the individual consciousness that the source, whoever you want to call it cannot if there's no duality, it doesn't even know who it is itself. I mean, it's it's just it's just one thing. So once once you have my assistant Desta Barnaby, it does this channeling stuff. And she had this one thing that she described to me where she saw how it started was you're in this state of complete silence,

no vibrations. So when the consciousness, the self, the higher self, the source, whatever, starts to vibrate, it's the whole idea of the Maya, the illusion, the illusion starts and it's all by so dense. The more it vibrates, you get these different levels, but there is no levels. We always it's one of the things they said to me in twenty seventeen, is is it one thing or is it separate? And we always want to go to the separation thing because our left brain is running it and

the left brain wants details. And then once the details inside the details and it wants to break things down, let's make lists. So we get lists and we say, oh, there's these levels of reality and different levels of dimension. There is there is no levels. It's like falling in the water and you drop down to fifty feet and you see this fish and you say what level am I at? And the fish says, stupid, you're in

the water. I mean, you're just in the water. And the closer you get to the surface, the closer you get the source, the more the brighter it gets and the more you can see. So we're at the bottom of the ocean in this darkness. And when you change your vibration through meditation through seventy one contact model as it went through. When you change your vibration, you start to you start to elevate through the different vibrations and the

more you're vibration changes, the more you see different things. So if you're in a near death experience, you're a different vibration. Out about experience. In a different vibration, you see different things. And the closer you get to source, the closer you get to the top, the more light there is in the water, the more you can see. But it's all the same thing where we want to change it into these levels and and put names on things, but that's left brain doing it. It's all on activity,

as Deepak Shoppers says, it's all activity inside consciousness. When you break it down, it's all us creating this this environment. If you've if you've interviewed Mark Simms, Mark Simms talks about it. And also the other one that I was a big fan of. I've had four big experience in my life.

One was seeing doctor Michael Newton lecture. Doctor Michael Newton is behind Life between Lives and when I saw that, I couldn't I couldn't think for two days when I saw so Michael Newton talks about this idea that in this soul world, these people are building stuff and he's going, what are you building? The guy says, making a rock. He said, you're making to rock and he said, well, yeah, I'm not very I'm not very

good at this yet. And this is the thing they're using consciousness to create or they're building these animals to put on different planets and and this is this idea and Mark Simms. So when Mark Simms came forward, I don't know if his experience he was with Stephen Greer in the C five and he has this this light appears and so I always asked these certain questions to people. I say, so what was it doing? Same as mine as so what was it doing? Wasn't doing anything. Did everybody see it or just you

see it? No, it's sort of just I sort of I saw it. Maybe somebody else saw, but I think just I saw it. And I said, do you think it was for you? Yeah? I think so. And he sees this light and then he goes and does this C five protocol in the room and this being tar Tea. Bar appears and he's in his body for thirteen days, and Bar gives him this you seem float

chart. He gives them exactly the same flow chart that is Michael Newton, and this whole idea that it starts with very simple things with Adams, and and he just gets more complex and more complex, and we're creating all this stuff consciousness. Like Adams have consciousness. Everything has consciousness. So the consciousness of different levels, and it gets more and more complex, and the universe is getting more complex and at level fifteen in Mark Simms flow chart, the

beings are creating galaxies. And so that's how it works. It's this flow chart and the universe is all information. It's getting more complex and more magnificent, but it's all consciousness. We're creating consciousness. We have to get away from the idea that there's this matter that has consciousness in it. It's consciousness creates matter, not the other way around. The same as the thing with

the near death experience or the outer body experience. When you look back and see your brain, you realize your brain and all of the world, the stars, the planets, it's all inside your consciousness. That's the whole deal is we make this assumption that we're inside the brain, and then the consciousness leaves and floats around. But Bueldman will say, and near death experience people will say, no, you're not going anywhere. You're going inside yourself.

You're just going back in through these different levels. It's all within yourself. And it may just be like a singularity, a point in space, and it's manipulated. It looks like it's big, it looks like there's stars. That's why I say it. I have the one guy whose name is Ron Johnson, who had the craft line where they say to him, where would you like to go? And he says, oh, I would like to

see the Milky Way. They got him sitting in a chair and he's got his hands on this chair and they say, wherever you think is where we're going to go. So he says where would you like to go? He says, I'd like to see the Milky Way from a distance. And they say this is gonna be very violent for about one second, and he said, it was like heavy, heavy g forces and this vibration for one second the window was open. He looked and there was the Milky Way in the

distance. That was one second. So if that's true, we got a real problem with time and space. Is there such a thing in time as time and space in the real consciousness world? And if there's isn't how big is the universe? The universe may just actually be a point in space, even like like the whole thing with John Wheeler again said this whole idea, there's only one electron. And if that's true, I mean, it's like the electron moving back and forth. It's this whole idea. It's impression.

It looks like it's it looks like the sun's going around here. We've got to realize what's actually going on. And that's where I change from other people, where people want to take a look at UFO settings and gather how many green ones and red ones and all that kind of stuff. There is no. You talk to the experiences and they will actually ask the beings, and the beings will tell them what's actually going on. And when you start looking

at it, you start seeing these patterns. Thirty seven percent of pad near death experiences, eighty percent have had out of body experiences twenty five percent or talk to about reincarnation. You start seeing these patterns of what people are being told being told and that is this stuff that's in the field, or people who say they knew everything. It's in the field, and that is more accurate information than the rational, analytical left brain that is sitting here and shuffling

around the blocks. It's like, we have this idea. We got all these puzzle pieces, and the left brain is shuffling these puzzle pieces trying to put them together, and some of the pieces don't fit, but they're still trying to make them fit. You've got to figure out that we're missing some of the puzzle pieces, and that if you go into the field and pull

out material back. So I'm very interested in people who channel. I'm very interested in people who have out about experiences, nearness experiences, psychedelics experiences, UFO experiences, because they're in the field, and that material is going to be much more accurate than the stuff that's now even go back five thousand years the idea of maya, the idea of the illusion, that it's all an

illusion, it's all consciousness. That's a five thousand year old idea that suddenly when we came to simulated universe, everyone, oh, yeah, we just invented the simulated universe. It's all good at video game just saying out this is a five thousand year old idea. Those people had it. They meditated to get in the field five thousand years ago and they pulled that material.

And that's the thing is, when you start looking at the material in the field, I think it's going to be more accurate than trying to shuffle these pieces around and not look at the five percent that Gary Nolan talked about. It's five percent of the puzzle pieces that don't fit that tell you something is wrong. You've got something figured out and it's not accurate. This is uh man, This conversation is something that really makes all the synapses in your brain

fire. When we start talking about the size of the universe, who start thinking about I know we're about to go to Flair's Kevin, and his synapses are fired and and the you know, like the voyager that went to Mars, Like what what would happen if we just let that that craft, you know, continue on, Like what does it end up seeing? Because it is, you know, how big is the universe? But Kevin, I'm sure you can answer all these questions, but go ahead and ask grant the

question that you have. Oh wow, man, So yeah, I'm glad that we're talking about uh flow state and phenomenon. Because I'm an artist. I've experienced flow state writing poetry, writing fiction. I'm a musician. Also, I've experienced with and without people, other people playing music like a band. I've experienced flow state. Also on martial artists. I've experienced it during a sparring session. I also teach kids diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder, and

I have experienced it while teaching these groups of kids. This flow state. So the flow state, I'm even trying to come up with an operational death mission for it. So what I've got is it's for me. It's basically it's a physical the station of unity between fluency of a skill and the self expressed over time. That's how I seem to notice it. So how do

you think that art connects our consciousness to the phenomenon as a whole? Like, do you think it's perhaps like maybe a frequency like you're saying, do you think I'll give you my my my impression? I basically I wrote a book called Tuned in the Paranormal World of Music. I wrote a whole book on musicians where they get their sounds from the download songs and the spontaneous songs. And they're all very right brain creative people. And that's what they said.

To Roger Lear, who did the seventeen alien implants in Los Angeles, said what's common between all experiences? He said, they're all right brain creative people, and there's tons of them in Hollywood, and and all implants are on the left side of the body. That's what he said. Yet two hundred and fifty implants said, look at all implants are on the left side of the body. The left side of the body is right by the right

brain, the right the left vice versa. So the right right brain runs the left side of the body and the left brain runs the right side of the body. So if all implants are on the left side of the body. They ain't interested in your left brain. They're operating on your right brain, which is the female creative brain. We have the male brain that's destroying the world here, and then you have this idea of the female brain that so you see musicians, it's all in art, it's all it's all visual,

it's all right brain. So that's what you see in psychedelics, that's what you see in dreams, that's what you see in all these sort of things you're seeing. They don't come to you and say, uh, here's a lecture and they stand up and give you a lecture or a left brain lecture. They use images. That's what Jim Semivan said. You look at Jim Semivan, the CIA guy who had the beings in his room. What does he say. They talk in symbols. Symbols is right brain. It's

visual. And so musicians and artists you see a lot of them are experiencers because they have this right brain. They're able to shut down the left brain. The rational analytical people don't have the experiences because they're so wrapped up in the ego and they're right their left brain to go. It's like I don't need a brafing don't tell me what's going on. I'll tell you exactly. And they can they use logic. I can stand on my feet and argue

with anybody. I don't need to read the book. I can argue with you. But it's the it's the the idea that art. Definitely, we went through. We did a bunch of podcasts with artists and how many of them are experiences? And how many how do you get your art? And where do your songs come from? And you'll ask people like just how long it take that song to come blowing in the wind? Neil Neil Young and the answer, my friend is blowing in the wind? Yeah, yeah,

what's this? What's his name? That don't remember? What artists? Someone's got to google Bob Dylan. So they asked Bob Dylan on sixty minutes they said, so you got you did that in ten minutes? You went, yeah, So where do it come from? I don't. I'm not sure that wellspring of creativity? And you see this over and over. Musicians don't. Uh. Michael Jackson said he was embarrassed to put his name on the songs because he said I didn't write them. He said, they definitely just

seemed to me. And that's the whole thing, and that is the ability to shut down. So you've got to you got to shut down the left brain. Musicians can do it is shut down that rational analytical thing that's creating the noise. And once you get rid of the noise where his meditation or however you're doing it, and you get into that flow state, the left brain is shut down. The flow state is on and the stuff comes starts

coming in, but it's coming in through images. It's coming in sort of intuitively and very vague, and you've got to sort of interpret it and stuff like that. So that's my interpretation. I think artists are very important. That's where like even uh Roger Lyri said, I mean all right brain creative people. That was his interpretation to all experiencers who have been abducted. So

it's not like you're on the wrong street corner at the wrong time. It's this whole idea that you're in the right mind state that they can they can talk to you. If your left brain is going, they just can't talk to you because your your your left brain is making too much noise. They can't get the signal to you. Everybody can get the signal. It's the ability to get in that state. I feel like I'm missing half of each, like I only have half of the left and half of a right because

I'm not that analytical, I'm not that creative. I don't know if you have anybody who can help me out. But well, the question, the question to that is who's the eye that's talking. You often get that, like Jim Simmivan came up and said, oh, I don't you know, they made me very angry, And I was like, well, I and or people say I get very upset, Well, who's upset? Is it your egos upset? Or is your higher self to upset? It's always the ego. It's the egos running the show, like trying to pick it up.

You know, I've got this figured out and and and we always have to stay. You know. The idea that all spiritual literature has one component to it says, remember who you actually are. That's what it's all about. Nobody ever thinks why did I come in the world, and where am I going to go when I leave the world? And what am I doing here? That's never a consideration by anybody. That is the number one thing we should be working on is what the hell are we doing here? Like?

What is going on here? And and that's the idea as the way I describe it's described by many traditions, spiritual traditions. The way I describe it is, remember you are not the actor on the stage. You are playing an actor on a stage, big difference. You're the person behind the stage and you're you're you're a spiritual being having a physical incarnation. And when you leave, it's like Whitley Strieber's wife, and I talked to Whitty about

this. Whitley's wife comes back after she dies since she says, Whitley, I'd like to tell you I am no longer an, but I'll always be and to you, which means I've gone on. I'm somebody else now, I've gone on, but I'll always be a to you because you and I played that role on stage. It's like when my father died. Two this before my father died, his father came to see him and I said, okay, so if his father had lived a thousand lives, why does he

come as my grandfather? Because he became as anybody else. My father would know who the hell he was. We come in and we play whatever whatever role we want to play. Or as there's a guy named you see Ronan who's an experience. He wrote a book called One, which is the main message that the beings are trying to get across, this oneness message, and and he the beings were in there were green beings that were in the room. And the way they described it, when we come into your world,

we have to take on a body. We can take on whatever body we want. We don't need it, but we have to take it on to come into the physical world. But we can, we can. We don't need it. In our world. You can do the same thing. You just don't know it. And that's the whole idea. Is that? So you start looking at the beings where I'll say all beings are different. People

said grays. And when I put them all together, you start putting them on a float chart and you start looking they're all different, They're all different, And it's the whole idea is does John Mack brought this up? Does the being that you see indicate who you are? If you're if you're in fear, you see a gray, If you're you've got a sexual thing or very high energy, you're going to see a reptilian and this whole idea, uh, what you see maybe interpreted by your your your they know what you

want to see, they're showing you what. They're showing you what they think you want to see, or we're seeing the whole. The idea is there's only one consciousness. We're behind this whole thing. There's no them, there's there's just us. We're creating this whole thing. We're interacting with other sparks of the vine, but we're still creating this. So we interpret based upon our feelings as to what they what they're going to look like, and we

build a world. It's it's the like, no two dreams of the same, No two abduction experiences are the same. I would even say that no two UFOs are the same. That if you start looking at them, like why do UFOs of lights on them? It's like you know they they want us to see them. And people are interpreting it differently based upon how they see things. Because we're the ones that are creating the thing. We always

want to say there's something out there, the Einstein thing. I want to believe the moon is behind me when I'm not looking, and it's the whole idea. Is the moon actually behind you? Or are we creating this? Is this collective reality? Are we making this correct collective thing that we are reading everything? This is the whole idea. God did not create the heaven in the earth or desires source or whatever you want to call it. That

we It's all consciousness. It's all being created by the consciousness in the universe, and it's getting more complex, but there is no separate consciousness. We have this idea of AI that you can take AI and you can take the consciousness out and put it into something, but it's all gonna It's all consciousness.

Everything we were starting to learn everything has consciousness in it. And when you talk to people who did, like Sting the musician when he when he was doing the ayahuasca in Peru or Brazil wherever he was, he said, when they gave him the one, they said which one you would be stayed and he goes, that's me, Well we got special one for you, and they give him this huge thing and he's absolutely like totally blown away.

I mean he's just like he said, he went to the guy and begged him to get rid of him and get helped me out of this thing. And he said, and and I suddenly realized everything was alive and conscious. And I looked at a little plant coming out of the ground and I said, that's my brother. It's this concept that it's all all consciousness, all create out of consciousness. And that's what people will say when they have these

experiences. They suddenly realize everything is alive and conscious, and it's all consciousness. So when you have the craft, you have the AI. Yes, the craft is conscious. Everybody that's flown the craft will tell you the craft is conscious, it's alive. And when you put your hand on a panel or on a ball or wherever they get you to put your hand, and you become one of the craft. Every says the same thing. The seven four to seven Airline pile, he said, I had the dream twice and

he said that Joe Burks told me. He said, you know, I don't think it's a dream. Tell me this story and he said, I had a dream last year. And here's the seven four seven four hundred United Airlines pilot describing this thing that he became one of the craft. He said, was like it was totally he was totally linked in. He became the craft and whatever he thought is what the craft did. And that's this whole

idea that people will say. The being will say to you, okay, where do you want to go, And they'll say, I want to go somewhere and they say, okay, you imagine it. You have to imagine it, get it in your mind. And they say, as soon as they get into mind, they are there staneously wherever it is in the universe. And that's this whole idea when you start if that stories are true, the idea that we have of how the universe works is totally messed up.

Is so we're missing the boat, maybe this totally different thing that it's the physical thing. When you break down all the physical uh stuff, it breaks down into smaller and smaller components and ends up being energy, it ends up being vibration. And and even Neils Borr said, back in one hundred years ago, he said, there is no and this is the guy won on the bellt price for the autumn. He said, there is no matter as such. We're still in this belief that there is this physical thing and it's

solid and it's it doesn't have any consciousness in it. And these are all ideas that I say are end up are going to end up being totally wrong. Yeah, yeah, I agree, Deb. I knew you had a question. I wanted to make sure you had a chance to ask it. Yeah. I'm trying to wrap my head around this. I've said a couple

of times, try to try to get it all. But but one thing I've noticed though, is that there seems to be an aspect that's like maybe a shared consciousness because some of my experiences and meditation other people have experienced as well. And and we were actually touching on this a little bit before the show. One of the things that I've experienced in meditation was being shown how to fly the craft. It was not with controls, it was with my mind, and it was, you know, like the craft is alive.

It becomes a part of you, like an extension. And I guess my question is why do you think it is that we're having these shared commonalities with our experiences? It was a teaching process. It's all developing and learning and making more and making the universe more complex. It's all, it's all going

to be the whole concept. How do you Why are we here? I mean we're here to learn certain things to experience certain things, even just a lot of the people, whether it's the guides called the guides, Margie gets the contact she's got with the beings. When I went to the beings in Great Britain, I said to the beings, they wanted an interview, So and they're actually gonna do the documentary that I'm gonna do an interview with these

two women that contact these beings. And I asked the beings, I said, are you extraterrestrials? And I said, oh, if you want us to be extra trustials, we could do that. Yeah, we can actually take your dar our planet if you want. But no, we've always been here. And that's this whole idea is like is there actually any anything out

there? Or is it all within ourselves? So you have this this this idea that we're all there, But in the end, it's this sparks of the divine that are broken off and we work in pairs, if you follow doctor Michael Newton, that we pair up in the old whole idea that we may have. I had an agreement before we were born that all of us are gonna get together and do the show. Okay, you're gonna do this you're gonna do this, and everybody's got their little thing they're supposed to do,

and we're gathering together, but we're all players on a stage. We're all these actors on the stage, and we got to keep remembering that that when it's all over. I mean you, if you take this too seriously the world and actually believe the ego, who am I? You know, the I I I I I I And and then you get off stage, you know, your your your the people in your soul group are gonna say, oh, DJ man, you you really buy it into that thing. Man, You're really you got the Academy award, man, you just you

got you got. You played that so well. You actually believed it, and we all believe it. We actually believe that we are. And then once you die, you suddenly realize like, huh huh, you know, I'm going on to a different life. And that was just an act. That was just a play that we did. But it was to learn things.

It was to experience things to get it more complex. And I think the one thing I like to point out because my my my associate, Destha and I had experienced, but she had this long channeling thing where she had this, Uh, they basically told her it's all pre planned, just live. I mean, you planned it. It's all like like like strings or

whatever. And she was describing this, and she was really angry because it sort of disagreed with everything and she can actually have this contact back and forth, and she's she's in this altered state and she's typing and she's in this altered state and she's sort of fighting with them, and then they start stop refusing to stop answering questions and stuff. And she was really upset about this, and and it was this whole idea that it's all planned. But I

think it's planned between births, between lives. It's not like an overall plan that when you come in you plan to get together with certain people and do certain things, and you may veer off the path or stuff. But it's basically this thing. And but she was basically and the being said the same thing. Just enjoy it, because it's all it's you. You planned this whole thing. I mean, you came in to do this. And that's

what we always forget. We forget who we are. We came into the world to do something, and we sort of think that we're we're individuals and we're here. We're trying to rape, pillage, kill and steal. And in the end, we've come in to do something, so we don't really have to worry about what anybody else doing, whether it's right or wrong, because in the end, I've never converted anybody in eupology. I've never convinced anybody of anything. And I read Stanton Friedman's files. He spent sixty one

years arguing with the top skeptics. He never convinced anybody. People are on their own little path. And so it comes down to why did I come into the world, What am I supposed to be doing? And am I doing it? Because when you leave, according to Michael Newton, they only ask you one question. When you go in front of this panel of Life Review with three to twelve people where these medals around their chest or whatever,

you only ask you one question. Try to work out and you can't say, well, you know foreign for a hill or Clinton and my mother in law and you know all this sort of stuff. I would have done something, and they go, no, no, no, no time out telling this is about you. What you agreed to do this to go into the world and do this how to work out, and there's no you know, damning or whatever. It's like, oh, you know I was gonna do

it, I forgot or you know, I got scared or whatever. And that's I think what it all comes down to is is remembering who we are. That we are energy beings. Fifty five percent of all people talk about energy beings. And I'm actually going to interview a woman who's an oceanographer. I don't know if you've ever heard of her, Ingrid Uncola, who's she worked for NASA and she worked for the Navy. She's been in seventy five different countries. She's got a PhD. And she had a near experience at

three years old. And you start looking at that and you see exactly the same things she said. I was, I was out of my body. She was drowned in a pool in the back in the backyard, and she's there and she said she suddenly she was above the maid and she's says, oh, there's there's Maria, and then she boom, she's above her mother and she says, oh, there's mom. And as as soon as she

said that, her mother realized something was going wrong. She goes running back to the house, ten minute run back to the house, and then she said she sees this dog and she goes, oh, a dog, and she loves dogs. She said, instantaneously she was with the dog. And then she looked at the park and she goes, oh, look at the and she was instantaneously at the park. And then she saw a tree and

she said, I was instantaneously at the tree. You remember, this is a PhD in oceanography, and she's describing exactly what the people on board the ship are saying. You think of something, it's instantaneously you are actually there, the same as out of body experienced people will describe exactly what people on board the ship will describe. Three hundred and sixty degree vision. You never hear about that, and you hear it. And when I saw that,

I went, they're talking the same thing. This is all got to be linked. It's all got to be the same thing. Or for example, Ron Johnson, So Ron Johnson, and you've got to interview this guy. If you've ever Neard never interviewed Ron Johnson. Had being his name is Being's name was Elb, and Elb takes him to the spirit world three times. In the third time, second time he's the first time, it's sort of at Evan Alexander thing. It's sort of he's in the mud. He's you

know, it's just sort of darkness or whatever. The second time he's in the spirit world with his mother, but he can't see his mother. The third time he's with his mother's he's actually walking around the spirit world. And he's a Latter day Saint guy. And he said, she takes me to this building. It looks like a temple in nephi Utah. And she said, bron when you come, you're going to get a room in this building.

And and he says, I go into the building and he says, you know what, it was like ten to one hundred times the sizy in the building as it was outside the building. I said, hey, this is exactly what Chris Bussl said about being inside the craft. That's exactly what hell put Off talks about. That's exactly what Terry Lovelace said. Terry Lovelace said was an ordinary side craft. He went inside, it was the size

of a football stadium inside. That's exactly the same story. He's in the sparewell, that guy's in the UFO and you start wondering, this has all got to be the same thing. They're in this same sort of thing where this time and space and everything is is bizarre, where you're creating this this sort of world that you're in. And that's where I see these crossovers that when you start looking at the data between out about experience, near anth experience,

UFO abduction, you start seeing these parallels that are not coincidence. There's no way they're coincidence. You see this sort of stuf for the idea where eighty percent of all, you know, people who have been abducted say they've had out about experiences. And then I remember I asked von Smith one time, how many people who her abductee people who have had paranormal experiences happen.

She starts laughing. She goes like, totally common. And we want to change it because our our ego is wanting to be the center of attention, so it's got to be the fear. So we turned it into fear. So what do we do. We say, oh, the hitchhiker skinwalker ranch and followed these people home and stuff, and it's like Ron Johnson, Ron Johnson tells the story. It's like and we all knew this e anybody in paranormal knows this hitchhiker happens all across the paranormal for it was not just UFOs.

So Ron Johnson has this thing where he says, I go to this graveyard and to this vault in this graveyard, and I set up the camera outside the vault and I go bang on the vault and I say, come on, take a bet shirt. And he says, this thing comes out of the vault. And he gets and he gets it on film and thing comes out of the vault. He said took him five years to get rid of the thing. Thing followed him around to three different houses for five years.

That's Skinwalker. That's the the whole uh you know, hitchhiker thing. It's a it's a phenomena, part of the UFO phenomena, is part of all different paranormal phenomena, and we want to turn it into the evil thing, the evil thing, and you do influence. So I'll say that if you go into Skinwalker Ranch, because Bob Bigelow talked about Skinwrocker Ranch and he said there really was no injuries, there was really nothing, but we respected

the phenomena. But when you had the special Forces guys who are armed, who are going to try to capture the thing. They go in there. Those are the guys that went back and had that real brutal stuff with the with the hitchhiker stuff where the kid has the orbs bombarding him in the room and stuff like that. And you you manifest what happens around you. And uh so the the the even the guy who owned Skinwalker Ranch now says he

calls it a reflective phenomena. And George Knapp said those that were the most aggressive to the phenomena had the worst experiences, and and and and and and the guy who owned Skinwalker Ranch now says there's a reflective phenomena. So when he goes on the ranch, when they're coming in with the helicopter, he says, they pray. They know there's a reflective aspect that you go in

there with a bad attitude, get ready. And so that's this whole thing we're forgetting about, is that we are part of the phenomena that we're manifesting. We want to always separate it. We say, there's evil aliens out there and they're they're picking on us, and you know, it's the idea

is it all goes to higher self. There's all ourselves in this whole thing, and we keep wanting to separate ourselves, put ourselves as left brain victims, and there's this thing that's influencing us, and and and and Anybody that I think knows the phenomena knows that if you protect yourself, if you go in with the right attitude, you don't have any problems with hitchhikers, you don't have any of this kind of stuff. The whole phenomena changes. You

are part of the phenomena. Yeah. Angeli says that in her experience that there, they told her there was a council. There were some that were very friendly toward us and paternal in some way, some were indifferent to us, and some were negative toward us. And so I don't know, I mean, I haven't had any of these encounters, but yeah, I can comment that that is one of the things a game that comes down to is

that is that an influence of ego going in there. Because the one thing, the one channeler i'd say is one of the best channelers I've seen is Paul Selik, who's channeled ten books, and there are no changes in the books, They don't change any the words is exactly, and you know, channeling from and I would say everybody's channeling like you and I I always say to people like, where do you think the words are coming from? They're

coming out of your mouth. Do you think you actually think there's neurons running around? And I could talk very very fast. Do you think there's neurons that are runing around and saying, Okay, what word they're gonna put that sence next? Okay, let's put this word in. And then somebody's doing the grammar, and somebody's moving the hands, and it's like, come on, give your head a shake. This is channeling. So Paul Selick channels and the way he describes that, I think is this whole oneness thing?

Is it separation? Is there separation? Is there good and bad and stuff like that? In a reincarnation world, it's all experience, the things that happen to you. You plan if you have a near death experience, or if you have if you have psychic says to you going be an accident tomorrow and you have an accident tomorrow, is that actually random? Or was that plan? And we and the whole idea with near death experiences with the abduction

experience. What's the chance is the thirty seven percent of all abductees have near dealth experiences. Do you think that's by chance or do you think that's they actually plan to have a near youth experience to learn something or the the the UH decided to be abducted to learn something, and that it's experienced. It's all experience, and you learn mostly from the from the bad stuff. You

don't learn from the good stuff. So Paul Selik, the way Paul Selik describes this is oneness principle, which I adhere to, and that he says, it's all divine, it all comes from source. And when you decide that I am divine and this is not divine. When you take something and put it into darkness, that's something that you take will take you into the darkness with it. If you claim that you are divine and this or that is not divine, that is the shadow pretending to be the light. It's

all divine. What you damn damns you back, what you blessed blesses you in return. And that's this whole idea. How can you separate something from the divine? It's all divine, it's all there for a reason, it's all there for for a learning purpose, and whatever the bad thing that happens,

we realize that we learned from this. It's all experience that if you've died a thousand times, I reincarnation is fact, and you've died a thousand times, You've planned to die a thousand times, and it ain't going to be pretty. Usually it's not pretty when you die. So you plan to do this and you plan to go in earlier or come out later, whatever it is. And we we always want to do this separation thing that we are sort of a victim to outside forces, that God's picking on us and

we're unfortunate, you know. And the referee is almost like a game. We've turned it into like a football game. The ends justifies the means. It's all about winning and the refs against us and all this kind of stuff, and we are ego feels good when we can overcome and stuff like that. But I I would say the reincarnation world, which is what they told me, if it's one world, that's one that's one world and it has certain rules. But if it's reincarnation and it's true, if it's reincarnation.

Then it's all learning. It's all we're gonna plan to have failures and we're gonna plan to have accidents to learn things, and and and a lot of the people, even in the abduction experience, people will say, all the abduction experience is terrible. I mean, I'm a victim. That's what Jim Semivan said. I was really angry. I didn't ask to have this happen. Well, you don't think you asked to have it happen. But if if you do, you remember what had you on your third third birthday party,

what you had for dinner? I mean, you don't remember any of that? You I'm not, actually I don't. I don't know. I'm sorry I thought I did. No. So, so you have this this idea that that that we we we turned it into sort of a victim thing. And you have two people at the same experiences. So Jim semi Van has an experience with the beings, are in the room with his wife and

he's angry about it. He feels that he didn't agree to this. And I said, well, do you think Chris bletso consciously agreed to what he went through? Chris butsoe sat there for nine months and basically prayed to God to take him out of the world. He couldn't believe his whole world had come apart. He was not allowed to talk to his kids. On the verge of divorce, he got locked up in a crazy house to see if he was insane. And now suddenly he has the regression where suddenly they He

gets asked in the regression, when did you first meet them? And he says, they were with me before I was born. And O'Connell O'Connor, the guy who was John Max associated at Harvard, who was doing the regression, said what do you mean where you what do you mean before you were born? Were you with them in your last lifetime? And he said yes.

And that's the whole thing if that's true, if that regression is true, and a lot of experiences will say this, they'll say I agreed to this, or I asked Mary Rodwell, I said, Mary, this whole soul contract thing. What do you think about the soul contract thing? That the experiences agree to play this role they're coming in to raise consciousness or dolors

can't. And the three waves we've all volunteered to come in. The atomic bomb goes off, and we all volunteer tier to come in to raise consciousness to save the earth, and we're all volunteers on this whole thing. What do you think about that? And Mary Rodwalls says, like one hundred percent will agree. And I asked Kathy Martin. I said, Kathy, what do you think about the soul contract thing? And Kathy said, I always wondered about it too, just he said, you know what I did.

I actually had myself regressed and I heard the words count of on my mouth. I agreed to this. That is the whole thing about taking personal responsibility, whether it's right or wrong that you agreed to all these things in life. You take personal responsibility because as long as you see yourself as a victim, you are not going to grow. You're just going to feel sorry for yourself and you're just going to recycle and recycle and take it out on other

people and blame other people. And this is this whole idea if and you get I think twenty five percent of all experiences say they remember being in their past lifetime. John Mack has one when did you first meet the guy? Oh? He was with me, My last lifetime. If the being was with him in his last lifetime, that is a different world. Or when you have the people on board the craft. And I'm not one hundred sent sure on this, yet, everybody that goes on the craft will tell the

story. Like, for example, the seven four seven Airline pilot the Air Force guy. They both say the same thing. They're on the craft and there's somebody behind them. They don't know if it's human beings or or aliens. They don't know what it is. And the voice like the seven four seven or I'll give you the the air Force guy. So the Air Force guy, he says, they say to him, Okay, go ahead and

do it. He just hears his voice behind him. Now, if you go to Michael Newton and you look at the life review, the sole guide is always behind the person on the left side, always, and that's the thing. So when he says that I'm going, I wonder if that's his sole guide. He doesn't know what it is. And he said, and he says, go ahead and do it. And this David guy says, I don't know what to do, and he says, you know what to

do, just do it. So he goes there's this panel on the wall, and this Air Force colonel puts his hand on the panel and he said, suddenly, he says, boom, it's not gonna flying the craft. And he said, I couldn't believe it. He said, I'm flying the

craft and he's doing whatever I wanted to do. And so he said, take one hand off the panel, and he's waiting for it to stall, and it doesn't stall, and then then he takes the other hand off the panel, but at six inches above because he wants to slim his handbag down if the craft stalls. And then he's got both hands off the panel and he's flying the craft and he's going, this is the most the most bizarre thing I've ever seen in my life. And he's flying this thing. But

that's the whole thing. Is this whole idea that it may be soul contract. You start seeing these things and you wonder, is the person interpreting he's making a vision of what it is. But it may be sole guy because one of the I had a guy who submarine guy. I haven't talked to him yet, but a guy US Navy submarine guy said I had this that went through this whole thing and I was told to see my spirit guy, and I saw a gray alien and I go, wow, that's that's pretty

cool. It's this whole idea is what's actually going on? Is it actually are we building this world to learn a lesson that they're taking us on this this craft thing, and the craft really may not exist except in our mind. Because the one guy actually told me, he said, he said, I actually they said get your own craft, so he said, in my mind, I built the craft, a conscious craft, and I made a certain size, and I was traveling to different galaxies. And you got to

remember, these are stories that Jacques Beallet will call absurd. These are not stories. If you want to make up a story and and try to fool me with it, you're not going to bring up I flew the craft from my mind. I mean that people are gonna buy that or I knew everything in the universe, because I would ask people, I'd say, you knew everything in the universe? Are you sure? Yeah? And I said, well, how do you know there wasn't something number six seven eight on the

far side of the universe they forgot to tell you about. And the people will say exactly what I said in my flow state. I'm not sure. I just know. It's like if flow state comes with absolute uncertainty, you know, nobody has to tell you. Nobody's gonna You're not gonna argue with anybody. I know this is this is accurate information. And so that's the the whole idea, is this our interaction with the thing and the fact that it all is is one quantum physicist. It's all Uhli stuff. It's all

consciousness. The the basic bottom line that we're creating this stuff out of consciousness. It's all dream skate or even the people say, but it's just physical. I think I was abducted. They say, I don't think it was abducted. I think I think it was. They just the aliens come to me in my dreams. Bashar. If you look at the chandler Bashar, Bashar says, we come to you in your dreams because now you're in our world. It is physical though. I mean, if you can paint some

of these things on radar, it's physical. It it comes into the physical world. That's what they said to Yo Si Ronan. When we come into your physical world, we take on so they lower their vibration. That's like I did the whole book on on the portals, the the zendras, if

you follow the Mission Rama stuff at Mount Shasta. So I go there and I interviewed the people that are in these uh these uh, these these xedra things, and the way they describe it is that the beings come in, they lower their vibration and what the Mission Rama people and Mission Rama, so you're into thing about, oh, there's these these aliens that are not good guys. There's these good guys and bad guys. No, no, the possibility of no, I'm saying this is this is an idea that I'm just

saying you. This is an idea out there that's very common that there's these good and so what you get with Mission Rama is I say, I defy anybody. Mission Rama. There's twenty five thousand these people around the world started in nineteen seventy four. A lot of them are you know, Latino people, and they are able to open these xendras, these portal things, and these beings appear in the portal or you walk into the portal and you walk

in into this xendra. And the seven four seven Airline guy was actually in one of these portals. He describes that whole story being in this in his Xendra, you walk through and as soon as you walk into the into the Xendra, you're on another planet, just like walking through a doorway. Wow. And and what they say is they lower their vibration. So everything is vibration. There's all consciousness and everybody' said vibration. So the beings are here,

everything's are here around us. If there is no time and space, it's all here. So their vibration what we do in psychedelics. Anybody knows there's a psychedelics. You know when it's going to start. The vibration starts. Your vibration is changing, You feel your body vibrating, and boom, you're suddenly in it in a different environment. Kev's like, I've been sound some psychedelics, Baby, I know what he's talking about. Yeah, so

all right, Grant, we have about fifteen minutes left. Well, keV, we have some experiences we want to share with you and get your take on. Kevin has one. I have one that I don't even think Nathan's heard this one yet, but I did pose it to deb yesterday. She forewarned me. So I'll see what you guys think. But go ahead, Kevin. All right. So, as I said earlier, you know, I teach kids on the spectrum. So I've got fourteen years experience teaching kids

with autism. Yeah, So what I've done I started, I've started documenting some of the strange phenomenon that I've seen over the years, some of the stuff that cannot be explained. And I wanted to read one of those to you. So one of the things we teach is attacking lesson. It's commenting on the environment. You know, we teach them to respond to what do you see? What is it? So the particular student, he liked to smile and hum well, looking up, So U one lesson wants to lesson

progressed to a natural setting is during lunch. I asked him, you know, he's looking. I asked him what you see up there? And he points to something I can't see, you know, he just points up and he says white balls, right, which I found very interesting. So and he said it while giggling. So over the years, you know, he

had a few other responses. It was like he'd say madness or eventually it was friends and we just start saying, hey, during lunchtime, are your friends back and be like, yeah, yeah, my friends white balls. So that's just one of the phenomenons that I'm I'm recording, I'm documenting. What do you think about that? Well, I in my contact modality is I do a whole chapter on that very phenomena, especially when you talk as salants. So basically what you see is a lot of left brain damage.

For example, the one I always shows. I say, if you don't think there's material out there that people are seeing that they're able to tap into, watch this. And the guy's name is and I'm gonna forget his name, he's out in New York City. He's now in close to eighty George Finn is the guy. His name. He's on sixty minutes. If you look it up on sixty minutes, you'll see this thing. So they say to him, okay, George, what's two plus three? And he goes,

would that be uh six? And the guy goes, what's five times seven? Would that be uh fifty? And then he goes, okay, so what day is July the eleventh, twenty forty seven? And he goes, oh, that'd be a Tuesday. And he's right one hundred percent of the time, And the thing is so left brain is simple math. He cannot do simple mauth. So he's not calculating this calendar calculating thing. And you see this with savants and with autistic kids. Is they're in this different

world. The brain has shipped. Part of the brain is shut down, left brain is shut down, it's cut off the noise, they're able to pick it up. It's all being picked up. And they're just in this different frequency, especially the left brain damage. A lot of autistic is this left brain damage thing, or even with head injuries. You see these kind of things. So I say, that's one of the most important things you're

you're studying. Is I tried to get Guya actually to do a show on savants, on guys who you know, played the piano, who have never played piano before, have seven thousand songs, and and can do mathematics or you know, all this bizarre things they can do, and they want to have a budget to travel. They wanted someone to stand in the studio and just talk about it. And I said, that is the most bizarre show

you could ever run. Is these people autistic and and and savant people, the stuff that they exhibit, there's no way you can explain it with the present idea we have of the universe. Extremely important stuff you're doing there. Thank you, thank you very much for answering that, Nathan, You're not something. Yeah, so grant if I can get your thoughts on this.

So, yeah, you're obviously familiar with the subject, you know very intimately, But the way in which it's talked about in kind of mainstream stream circles right now is very much still from the nuts and bolts component everything that you've articulated on the show. I think everyone on our show is in pretty much agreement with this is the direction that it needs to go. But how do you see this really playing out from a kind of a more public perspective.

How do you see the world being able to transition to this kind of understanding, Because I'm a conclusion that if the disclosure were so simple that it was just ets from some other star system, we would have already had that story by now. But I'm more in agreement with what you are describing that the world that we know and the way in which we know it is different than

what we all assume. That's a much harder thing, I think to get the public on board with, So what what does that process look like? How do you think it really will unfold to where we can get to this place and have this kind of conversation in a broader sense. I think that's where the idea of trying to convert people. I don't think it's going to work, is that we want to try to convince everybody and forgetting that it's it's unlimited universe, it's and less. We can take forever tofre this thing

out, and that things will flip very very quickly. When I had my consciousness experience in twenty twelve, I always make the joke I could not have spelled consciousness and I couldn't have cared less. And a lot of people are still on that thing. There are people in the UFO community who use the word consciousness don't even know what they're talking about. They know it's a buzzword. Now. You could not talk about consciousness in twenty twelve, and you

could not in academia twenty years ago. You could not. You would be thrown out if you talked about consciousness. So it will eventually change, and I think it's changing very fast. In terms of the Matrix movie, it's all happening indirectly. It's happening through the especially the idea of the simulated the universe. If you talk to young kids today and you say to them, do you believe there's a video game, it's just like, well, of

course it is. I mean it's a completely different world. It's almost like Max Plank said, a new idea does not come in by convincing the opponent he's wrong. It comes in by those people dying, and the new generation is not offended with the idea. So and it will shift very fast. I remember you talk about disclosure. I remember I was doing the ex conferences with Steve basst is a good friend of mine. So Steve Basset he brought me in and he had to panel at the end. He said, so

when do you thinks disclosure is gonna come? And you know he's always on there. We we need this right now. We need the government president to say there's ets and stuff and these people are going six months, twelve months. That comes to me and it's a whole crowd there and I said twenty forty two. And he looked at me like I did, You'd never do this to me in front of all these people, and I never because I had done it so many years. I said, there's no way there's ever

going to be disclosure, not a chance. But what happens is Jim Semivan. If you know the story, it's in my last podcast. Jim Semivan tells the story that he has this thing and he's all upset about this abduction experience or whatever. And I say, get this straight. If he had not been abducted, there would be no disclosure today because it was Jim semi Van. I was told in twenty sixteen. Jim Semivan from the CIA was

the guy that was behind it, behind the New York Times article. He was the mover and shaker, and he would not have done it if he had had the UFO experience. He would be like the ninety nine percent of people in the public who would say, who cares about you? I'm trying to feed my family. I don't care. Nobody cares. There's very few of us who care. And so what happens is Jim Semivan says he said on an interview, he said, I went to high level officials in the

government and he said, we're going to force this thing out. You guys can't get it out, and I'm going to I'm going to get it out. And that's what he did. And it was because he was abducted with this very bad experience that he's still upset about. That he went out and he did this. And what happened in twenty seventeen The New York Times article came out, and that was Jim semi Van. That was hell put off and all these guys that pushed all this sort of Tom DeLong, they pushed

all this. New York Times did the article and in one day it was boom. It's like you ask everybody because Stephen Greer and I I did an article called sixty four Reasons they decided not to tell you the truth. One of the reasons I gave was Stephen Greer's reason that the stock market will completely melt down if they actually said, oh, yeah there's UFOs, everybody would say, oh, oil's worth nothing, and everything would just melt down.

And what happened in twenty seventeen when they released the article, absolutely nothing. Nobody jumped off a building. Everybody went, yeah, I knew that already. That tell me what's in the craft. And that's what happens. It's like gay marriage it's like it's like, you know, all that kind of stuff. When did gay marriage come come into effect? Everyone? Why? I don't know, twenty years ago. Nobody knows. It just happens. It will flip overnight, and that's what's gonna happen here. It's a gradual

thing. And it's the simulated universe that's the big thing. It's not so much the beings, but because they forced this thing out into the public, out of the black world. Now you can talk about it in academia, you can talk about it in the Pentagon, and you're gonna get it's gonna it's moving very very fast because you have academia talking about this and they're talking

about simulated universe and what's really good going on? And I can say the stupid things I'm saying and it's not off the charge anymore because there's other people talking about the same thing. So I think this is moving pretty fast. Since twenty seventeen, I never would have believed that I saw this. Absolutely not a chance that I believe this would ever happen. Thank you, thank you very much. I mean, yeah, you should read more books.

It doesn't seem like you have a lot of information think about you know reading, I'm just kidding. Your recall is incredible. It really is, dude. So it is like, but where that's the question is where is it coming from? Consciousness when you're there, A and E is consciousness when I when I talk, I don't know what I'm going to say fifteen seconds from now, but I know in fifteen seconds somebody's going to put something in my head to talk about. It just comes in. Nobody's planning it. It's

channeling. It's all channeling. It is. Well, you know, my safety rests in your hands with this next question, Grant, So I want you to take this with a degree of seriousness. Okay, okay, So I spoke with Deb the other night. You know, Nathan hasn't heard this yet. I don't think Flair has heard this one. But I have a tendency to spend a lot of time going out in the woods with my dogs, Athena and Julia. Athena is about fifty pounds, Julia is about ten

pounds. And I told Deb that I was going to try to manifest Bigfoot to come up to me because I think it would be so cool. And all this time there's nobody around. What if he came out and deb feels that I could be in grave danger where I to manifest Bigfoot. So Grant, I'll start with you and then we'll go around. What's what's your thoughts on that? Well, again it comes to this good evil thing. I mean, are there evil sasquatches that are running around eating people or whatever?

I mean, we we sort of build this in because it's unknown, we build it in. I believe there's a connection. So once you get into the phenomena, it's like the ychecker thing. Suddenly the phenomena starts coming to you if you start reading about it and getting at your state and you start to manifest the stuff. And I had the one I'll tell you the one interesting sasquatch I had seventy six. There was an air base. It's no

longer an air base, but on the south fence. There was a woman who saw a being looking in a nine foot window or kid had colic in the middle of night, and the dogs were going crazy down the street trying to get off their their leashes and stuff like that. And the one Aboriginal

tracker took me and showed me where this thing had gone. And and I say, if you think that there're Sasquatches that are living in forests and hiding, give your head a shake, because I live in a place where where that is there's like one tree per mile and it's the flattest part on Earth. If you're a nine foot sasquatch, they're a very hard time hiding.

Doang one creek, right, And so the thing was, he showed me there was a there was a creek, and there was a couple of bushes there, and this thing went up the creek and he said it was and fifty pounds he broke through the snow. This thing did not break through the snow, and it went in You could see the broken branches and went into the middle of this clearing and that's where the footprints ended, which indicated something

picked it up. So there is this connection, whether they're dropping them off or to go to the bathroom or whatever. But we talk talk to Sasquatch people, You'll see a lot of Sasquatch people believe it's it's etheric beings as well that they're they're manifesting. It's all part of the same sort of thing. It's almost like the universe has so many different levels so many different dimensions, realities and you know, vibrations and stuff that everybody's playing a game.

So I want a world with sasquatches, So I can create this world to have sasquatches running around. And it's just making it more complex that it's all being created by consciousness. And there's like probably three million different levels and types of environments we haven't even seen before, and it's all but it's all gonna be created just by making the world more complex because the person that's watching it, the source, wants entertainment. It's like if you go to a movie.

If you're in a movie and you everybody wants everything good. We want. We don't want any bad stuff. We want God to sit and watch us drink coffee around a coffee table for seventy five years. You go to the movie because everything's gone bad and the characters under attack and you know,

and and he overcomes and that's what life is about. So that's what we're doing, is this idea that we're creating these these ups and downs and it's almost like a movie, and we overcome this thing and we put another challenge in front of us, and so the sasquatch I think is is part of this, but I definitely think it's connected to UFOs because that was the thing. The UFOs were in that area. There were thirty two horses disappeared.

There was all these bizarre things happening around this area, and there's no way a sasquatch was hiding. Well, maybe maybe I shouldn't try to connect with one of a Nathan. Nathan, what do you think should I not be trying to manifest? Well, I mean, I think if anybody could and should be okay with you doing it, I think it would be a pleasant experience. You know, You've got such a warm spirit that I think it

would be okay, But you never know. I want to come back to something you said Grant about the ocean and analogy of consciousness, And you know, one analogy that I've heard to help describe what's happening here is that just as a wave is an appearance on the ocean, you can't take that wave out of the ocean. It doesn't exist independent of the ocean. And so what we are is sort of these we are all just manifestations. There are

different manifestations of the water. You know, we haven't a adherence of separateness, an appearance of being distinct, but we really are the same thing, and that's really kind of what's happening here. I think of it in this way too, just as an analogy with modern psychology. You know, you can be a person who can have disassociated uh alters, you know, they use that that that's the word that is used altered personalities, and that's essentially

consciousness as well. That it's when it's when it's non altered, when it's at its base state. As you mentioned earlier, it's essentially kind of alone

or you know, solitude. It's it's very boring, and so it disassociates into all of these different you know, entities, which is us and the others, and we are all playing in mind space essentially, and as we kind of intersect with each other, the way in which we see them, the way in which they see us, it is all interpreted through the lens of that of that conscious experience, and so it does vary based on what

their conscious experience of the universe is, what our conscious experience of the univer versus Sometimes we never intersect, but we're all part of the same thing. You mentioned why I would like to get this in before we close. But you talked about this altars, which is another big thing I did in contact modalities, which I think is a very important thing to study. When you look at altars, you hear these stories that when the altar comes in it

changes eye color. It doesn't have a disease, it has this or whatever. That's all DNA. And so if you take a look at jay Z Knight, who was the chandler for for U, she did the experiment where she's she's Ramptha. They do the DNA test and they and then she has three different tests done. Then when she's normal and in the normal one she's a female from French access ancestry, and when she's Rampta she's male, and this sort of stuff, and that seems to indicate DNA maybe consciousness. And

I actually had Bashar. I had a bunch of people. I still wanted to do this test. I want to get ions to do it because if you take a look at the even remote viewing when Lynn Buchanan my melded with Saddam Hussein, they said, is eye color changed to brown? And that's this whole thing is even consciousness may be DNA. That if your consciousness changes. If an alter comes in and takes over your body, your consciousness may change. And I'm determined to get that studied because I've got all sorts of

examples of this happening. All you need is one more white crow and it's game over. What are you going to say if the person's consciousness changes when they're channeling, and it's got to be a direct it's got to be a trans channel where they're completely cut off. That's these things of levels, so you have different levels of channeling. When you get a trans channel, the person is completely gone, they're not even there, they don't know what's going

on. Their left brain is completely gone, and the thing comes in. And I have so many I'm trying to get Eyns to do it because they're doing this stuff with trans channelers and there's so many examples of this happening where the person can speak different languages and this sort of thing. I think it's very important, and again it shows us that we haven't got a clue what's going on. The The whole phenomena is going to be a lot less physical,

and people think it is. It's gonna be a lot more spiritual, and people think it is, which is really gonna, you know, pee off a bunch of people. The scientists are going to be reaching for the cyanide pills when they realize, oh my goodness, this is all wrong. It's going to be at least a thousand times more complex, and I maintain it will not have a single hint of capitalism in it. This beehive thing. It's the idea is that they're all working together as one, like cells

in a body. And when you get the one cell decides it's going to go its own way, that's called the cancer cell. And that's what we got in the situation in the world today. It's it's the the me over we. It's you know, the separation and the separation. The more we break down the separation, the more we have individualism, the worse it gets.

We have to realize we're all one thing. Or even I put on Facebook the other day where edgar Mitchell had the experience where and it was on the moon, and he said, you know you he suddenly got the one this thing about how it was all one thing, and he'd like to grab a politician by the neck and grab them out and take them out. Two hundred and fifty thousand miles and say look at that, yes, stupid, what absolutely, And that's the thing. It's oneness is the key message that

they're trying to get across, the oneness message. And unless we do, we're gone. But again, even if we destroy the world, it's all experience. It's a multi life universe. We come back over and over again. You come back some other planet, whatever whatever is happening. You either learn from it or you don't learn from it. You come back until you learn the lessons. You just keep playing, running the play until you get it right. That's what it's all about. It's about experience, and it's

about trying to make the world a better place. When you see the beings, people say why would they come here? Because when you get out of this capitalist world of rape, pillage, kill and steel, whoever's got the most toys when to die wins, then you realize it's all about trying to be a better person and a better universe and make it a bigger and better place. That's what it's all about. And that's what you see, whether it's spirits or beings, is that what they're doing. Why would they be

helping us? That's because they're trying to make the world a better place instead of you know, people want to escape the karmic wheel. We're going to go sit on a beach in Hawaiian drink my Thyes, it's how many billion years do you think you can sit on a beach and drink my thys in Hawaii. It's gonna be able to kid in the backseat a car. We thereat kind of call. This is boring. Come on, and it's all about experience and excitement and trying to do it. And I appreciate what you

guys are doing. We're all doing our little job here, and the more we do, the more consciousness rises. It's like African American rights or anything else. We're no different than any of their social and political movement. They make bad jokes about us, they can say whatever they want. The more we talk about it, the more the consciousness rises, and the more in the end everybody will know what to do. It's going to flip, but we have to talk about it. The more we talk about it, the

better it is. That's very inspiring that you say that and make that analogy, because I agree and I think share those values with my co hosts here. Everybody's going to say goodbye. Debs. Thank you so much for coming and sharing your vast amounts of knowledge with us. I appreciate it. Yeah, make sure you give me your story so I can put it in my book. Will Oh You're got You'll be seeing depths again are in a short period of time. Kevin hey Man, thanks for thanks for your insights.

I mean, yeah, dude, you're you're awesome. You're you're a fast talker. You actually intimidated me into're talking slower. That was great meeting you, So thank you for being here. Obviously you're You're someone I really looked up to in this Yeah, in this field money when I go that as well. Grant, I've been listening to you for quite some time and I've enjoyed watching your own journey through this topic. And you know, we are

incredibly grateful to have you with us and to get this message out. I can feel the passion that you have for it, and I think our audience can as well. And I want to thank everybody who was in the audience today participating in the chat. Just really happy to have everyone here. And uh, and where where can folks find you? Grant? Where? Where's the best place to find you now, it's all connected. Publishing is my website where I have put some articles on there, and I've got my books

and my president show UFO. Facebook is where I post new stuff that happens every day. I sort of poke the barrel once a while. They're on Facebook. Excellent. Yeah, well, then let me leave you with my one last line, because we've got a musician here, the words of John Lennon. It'll all be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end. Oh, I love it. He put on his glasses to it'll look like John. Yeah, man, that is fantastic.

Like I said, very inspiring. We'll try to get if we can get all your details, then in our show notes we will put them so that everybody can find you. Thank you for all the books that you've read and written, and educating those of us like us that have been here in the topic for about ten minutes, and educating us on what it's all about, and expanding our our minds so that we don't get trapped in our own biases

and our own uh uh thoughts that we've we've already had. You know, I'm trying to expand you know, my universe of thought about the phenomenon and talking to people like my co host and you're and people like yourself that are more vulnerable or what makes that happen. So thank you very much, Namas, stay for Nathan, for Kevin, for Debs. This is DJ saying peace out, one love and we'll see you down the road. Thank you.