Engaging James Iandoli

Calling All Beings, y'all. Oh oh man, that was great man. That was great to get in the workout man, because that's what you got to do when you're coming on with this guest, because this man know him way around the weight room. So welcome back to Calling All Beings. I'm your host d J, along with my co host, the brilliant, the sexy, and the man who looked like Rocky today money man, Nathan, what's up? Nathan? Hey, man, one love and give it up

to associate producer and new member of the team party people. Put some of those hands together for Akashi Chris. Yes, yes, all right, Nathan's look it is man, Nathan makes hugging eggs along with your work out. Yeah, I've got that over here. This is what Rocky would look like if he was an intellectual and had done as much studies to Hey, I got two turtles here. The name is Kuff and Link. You know what I mean. I don't know what a turtles think about it your Adrian,

but anyway, all right, let's bring in our very special guests. We've been chasing this man for months, Nathan months, months, ears more difficult to get on than James Earl Carter, junior President of the United States in nineteen seventy six. Damn. So, but I'll tell you what without further ado, let's bring in the Hudson Valley's own, New York's own, engaging the phenomenons own. This brother got the meta perspective. Put your hands together

for James Young Dolly. Yes, James Iron dooling people. He in my hometown right across from Linda Zimmerman. Yes, yes, man, if he swam across, he'd be like, Yo, Linda, throw me a towel. And I'm gonna do it this summer. By the way, I'm gonna swim from Linda's side to your side. It's gonna happen again. So again, man again. I did it last summer, and I did it the summer before. All right, Uh, James Man, welcome to the show, brother, Thanks for having me. You know. Fortunately I was able

to make it here for that panel, so I've been here before. That's right. In fact, James may be our only returning guests so far. Do you think of it that way? Uh? Well, Andy, Andy's been on a couple of times. I don't remember that. I don't Yeah,

I'll tell you what, man, No, it's super exciting. We needed more bandwidth, James, and uh, you know, quite frankly, first of all, we've been trying to get you on even before I heard your story, because Nathan gave me his top five the week that we said okay, we're officially collaborating and we're going to be a show, I said, you know, what's your top five? And you were on there.

Exo Academian was on there. I want to say Zignal was on there, but I don't remember who the other two were, but you were on there, James to five buddy, Yes, yeah, that is so. I said, in all of UFO Twitter, anybody that you could have on because I'll ask anybody to be on the show. I don't care who it is. And uh and James knows that. So so so so you were. You know, you were top five and it's an honor to speak with you,

and I'm glad we're gonna have a little bit more time. But the point I was getting at was, after hearing of your experiences, uh, your personal experiences, I was pretty blown away. So the out of body experience that you had after the car wreck, uh, and it's just it was really deep man, and I hope that you'd be willing to revisit that today for us. Yeah, sure, I can. You know, Yeah, for for many years, I really didn't even talk about that, even

even within the C five community. Uh, because you know, I was pretty even now still today, I'm pretty involved in the C five community, and a lot of those experiences I didn't I didn't really talk about for for a while. I mean, my my close friends and family, they knew the people that were they are new and and people that I knew really closely in the C five community. But uh, yeah, I only publicly started sharing that, I believe this year. Actually is it? How do you

like quantify or how do you how do you describe an experiencer? To me, I describe it as someone who was emotionally affected by whatever it was that that happened to him as a result of that contact. How would you characterize or describe what you consider an experimenture to be? Yeah, well, you know what, I don't. I don't even really like that term, and

I understand it's usefulness. So I understand the usefulness of language. And we're trying to point to a certain thing, describe it, and pack it nice

in our in our minds and understand it. I had never really considered myself an experience or I don't title myself an experience, or although obviously I acknowledge, you know, having such experiences kind of puts you in a category kind of like what you're saying, right, But yeah, I guess you can, and you have to say what kind of experience or because there's people that I mean, it does so happen that you know, once you have one

of these experiences, you're kind of more likely to have some of the others. But that's not always the case. There's people that have you know, I mean again, yeah, wow, there's a lot to go with there, because, right, you have people that do psychedelics and they have a psychedelic experience. Right, are they experiencers or are we just talking about the UFO phenomenon specifically? And then at what point do you separate the UFO phenomenon

from paranormal spiritual beings? Right? Uh? How do you separate what somebody would call an angel from an extraterrestrial intelligence or UFO or even a ghost? And then at that point, what if what you thought was a ghost was actually some kind of e T hologram, right, I mean, so there's all this, uh, there's there's a lot of ways you can go with that, but yeah, I guess how you're framing it is is actually pretty accurate. You know, somebody who has, in this case an experience with

with the UFO phenomenon. I mean, that's how from my understanding, how that that term was generally used experiencer. I don't know what if John Mack dubbed it that, but I believe it came out around that time because they didn't want to use the word abductee. They wanted to use different language and terminology too to present what they were experiencing. So I think they use that

term. So it's accurate in that sense. But then again, you know, and then more nuanced conversation that can go a lot of ways, right right, But it seems like the division, and maybe this is just one division among many, but it's those who seek the experience, they're initiating the experience like a C five for example, and those who who have the experience come to them, you know, sort of maybe not of their planning or

volition or whatever. They're sort of thrust onto the stage of the experience and it's like a I'm trying to think of a way to qualify it, but it's almost as if the line between waking reality and non waking reality is incredibly blurred and it's hard to tell the difference between the two. It's not quite lucid dreaming, but it sort of falls into maybe kind of that category. Well, and then you know, I have somebody coming on for Contact Week

and for people watching and listening. Contact Week is going to be December twelfth

to December nineteenth. I'm going to have somebody come on. They're going to share their story, hopefully if they don't back out right right, and they haven't shared their story many years, and I knew them pretty pretty freshly after their experience, and they were somebody who initiated a contact experience and you know, they didn't I don't maybe they didn't know what to expect, but they had a very profound contact experience in broad daylight, which even though it was

a CE five initiated contact, that experience changed their life like quite profoundly. So I mean, at that point, you know, whether it was an invited or not, that is an experience, right with a pretty traumatic impact, So you know, or are we talking about somebody who has just repeated experiences like myself or somebody like let me draw a parallel. Let me draw

a parallel. So for a juxtaposition. For me, I saw something in in Peak Skill that was at the Peak Skill ranch where I grew up, floated up above the tree line and headed off down your way towards like Mohegan Lake, Yorktown Heights area. And I only saw it for just a couple of seconds, but it's pretty obvious what this what this was at Sunday night, you know, in Peak Skill in September. But I wasn't emotionally affected

by it. It didn't it didn't come close to me. It didn't affect me in a way that I could really say, wow, you know, I now what would happen if I would have had a much closer contact. So that's what But you and some of the other experiencers there's a significant uh that contact because it was contact. Mine is just like oh wow, look at that, and then it floated away, whereas somebody else there's actually you have time to actually look at it and go, oh my god, like

what does this mean? That's actually yeah, that's a great conversation. Actually, you guys could do a whole podcast on that, basically doing close encounters versus experiencers, because again, you know, if it's somebody an experiencer because they have regular experiences, I think more people would categorize that as accurate as somebody who has repeated experiences, whether invited or not invited. And again,

at some point that line does blur. Just as an example with C five, right, if somebody starts doing CE fives and they're really into it and they're doing, you know, a few C fives a week, there comes a point where you could just not be doing any C fives and you're just having interactions as well. So that does occur. So do you know of any folks in the C five community who have been trying to have an experience for for some time and and haven't been able to have one through the C

five? So I know there there are people that have a harder time. And again, you know there's no actual like scientific studies on that, and and again studies for other things. I mean, I think that kind of like we can speculate on that, but the actual understanding I think we're far away from on a scientific level. Just because you know, we we can speculate, and I actually now there's some good science being done behind the scenes.

But as to why some people are good remote viewers or not, you know, there actually now in this day and age, there is I think some science being done on that. But you know, again, even ten years ago, you know, you couldn't you couldn't explain as to why that

might be other than pure speculation. But if I were to speculate, I would say mental conditioning, belief systems, and kind of the quality of your intention, the quality of your kind of how seriously you're taking it, the reasoning you're you're trying to do it, and if you're really putting effort in, you know, if you're if you're somebody who's most of the case, if somebody's really serious about it and they're going out a few times a week

trying to do it for several weeks, even a month or two, it's going to happen. I think like ninety percent of the time that that high on that that's a very high rate of success. I would say, well, well, no, I mean like ninety percent of the time it's going to eventually occur, not not that it's going to occur ninety percent of the time. Got you just for clarity? God, No, I was trying to be really broad and just say, like, when I think of music,

I think of what is the purpose of as an artist? If you're producing music, what is what is your goal and ultimately your goal if you look at it from a thirty thousand foot view, is to move emotion. If you're successful in your performance, particularly a live performance, is to move emotion among the audience. Whatever that type, that genre of music is is to move. So for a metal head sometimes it's you know, it's aggression, right, but for other forms of music, it it's a different.

For the Beatles, it was an excitement. It was a wow. And so I think of the difference between a sighting and and experiences. Oh I saw something, and then an experience or someone like, oh my god, I saw something and I'm gonna start looking at my life and and thinking about what just happened and it becoming a big deal like that didn't happen with me, but there's a lot of my friends here from UFO Twitter uh that it has happened with And so okay, we don't have deb backstage. We have

somebody on to actually ask you a question about CE five. Uh. And her name is deb and she is at a study of UFO's and U A P. S. But we'll we'll get back to her. So we'll just continue on with h with the beatings that Nathan and I have for you. I was gonna say, you're you're talking about uh, you're trying to go broad. You're probably looking at my shoulders here. Yeah, yeah, we got to kill man. Why donor do you have some sort of weightlifting equipment

in your hand right now? All right? I got nothing here? Okay, but what what years your citing? It was about eighty two at the very Yeah, it was the very beginning of the Hudson Value UFO wave, which is spectacular and I think, I know Linda Zimmerman has done the tremendous work on it, but I think it's an underappreciated I mean, you know what actually, now that I think about it, even like there's so much new stuff going on that it's it's you know, a lot of that stuff

like even the Phoenix lights. I don't hear about that much anymore. And it's like earth shattering, you know, kind of mass sighting you know, O'Hair. The airport thing was tremendous, and and the golf breeze incidents, you know, those are all huge flat UFO events, big waves where there's constant sightings, right, But the Hudson Valley, you know, I guess

I'm fortunate enough to grow up that I went. I grew up in this area, and I had met plenty of people, you know, more so after I was a researcher and I was like looking around and speaking to people, and I, you know, I'm the kind of person obviously, I'm a New Yorker, so I'll just ask people what they think. Yeah, but I met I met actually somebody at my library, and you know, she ended up having several experiences during that the Hudson value FO wave, and

she was actually she ended up being featured in Wonder Linda Zimmerman's books. Oh I I actually yeah, actually I didn't meet someone from the book, but I did meet someone that Linda did interview, and that's how I got her phone number to call her. But one of my high school classmates I posted on our class web page and I was like, crickets, No one responded. Then finally a girl came out, I said. She said, yeah, Dave, she said, I had, I had experience. Linda Zimmermann

came and interviewed us and my neighbor. My whole family saw it in the backyard. Yeah, and my neighbor so in Montrose, right near where you live. So yeah, it's funny because at one of my jobs, I met somebody and randomly, I you know, I brought up the issue because I was talking about the Disclosure Project. You know, some years ago.

I was talking to some people at work about it, and this gentleman actually told me, he's you know, he's like, yeah, you know, in the eighties, I was, you know, out in this field and we saw this huge silent craft. These the boomerang basically explained, go over them completely silently, and I mean when he's telling the story, he's you can see he's he was, you know, kind of reminiscing, and he

was amazed by what he had experienced. I don't know how drastically it had changed his life, but he was you could tell, you know, he was, I guess you can say, a believer. And what he saw was pretty profound. So, you know, there's there's kind of a decent amount of that around here, which I think is fortunate. There's a spectrum, you know, of people, but I mean just that, you know,

when someone's talking about it, it's emotionally moving. Unfortunately, I'm you know, mine wasn't very emotionally moving because I just didn't get to see it long enough. And I was going home and I was going to tell my parents because I knew I knew exactly what my father and my mother would say. So I was like talking about this well and and then again years later for me, it ended up that one of the guys featured in like the

the like TV show where they covered it, What's What's that? You're right? So one of the guys that was featured in that show, I believe his name is Dennis Sant and he was some kind of maybe council member in Putnam Valley and he ended up like again, I didn't realize this until way afterwards, that he was the brother of one of the martial arts instructors that I knew from this place I went to. And I was like, oh my god, it's it's a small world, all right, what a connection.

Well, And I didn't realize that until after I knew the martial arts instructor. And then again I'm like, oh that said, I'm like, oh, no way, and it's like that's his brother and it was small world. Yeah, it's weird that we're from this place. It was like this epicenter of of of UFO. But are we ready to bring on Deb now, Nathan, I think we can. We'll get We'll give it a shot. Here, someone to the to the stream. Okay there, I just want to intro her real James, if you can hear me, this

is she goes by at a study of UAPs and UFOs. Her name's Deb. She's a psychologist by trade, and she has really done a deep dive into document research, going and finding everything that's open source, everything open source about that that's available on any of the three letter agency websites about UFOs. So I think, like Nathan, she's going to become somebody that's that's well known in this space. So Deb, can you hear us? Deb? Can I get an amen? Can you guys hear me? Yes? Ma'am

agree. So unfortunately I was not able to use my beautiful avatar, so I will share that later. But I wanted to say hello, James, nice to meet you. Thank you very much. I would like to ask you a question about communication with our visitors. I would like to ask if you have a recommendation and specifically for the US military, and if you think there is any risk involved in that communication. What's the first part of the

question, how you would recommend that we would communicate with our visitors. Well, again, Ada on if you're going to talk on on a technological aspect, because for all, I know that there is advanced technology that there there can be interactions with. Because even in c I five field work, there's rudimentary forms of electronic communications where there's interference with electromagnetic devices and and things of that nature. And I've I've seen some pretty stuff Like I've seen stuff like

that in person that was pretty unique. I don't know how much you can garner from that type of communication if you have to develop a system to kind of translate that. But get getting to the consciousness aspects as far as recommending, I mean, I think that's there's people that are actually looking into that

in deeper programs. You know, we hear about the different things even in like American Cosmic with these different experiencers, and there's kind of part of agencies and they're studying this in secret, so I think they do have basic understanding on that level. On an open source level, you know, it's I don't I don't know if I I mean, if I would recommend it, just say hey, everybody, let's do it. I'm a proponent of it in the sense where if somebody is open to doing it, I'd say,

you're You're much more likely to have a positive experience. However, you know, when somebody you don't know how you're going to react. When you have an encounter. You might think, yeah, this is going to be awesome. I'm going to see some kind kind of ship or something or some orb or you know whatever, and you go out and you do it, and it becomes unsettling to you. So I don't. You know, everybody's an individual in that sense, So you know, usually the people that are going

to do it are people that are driven to do it. So in that sense, I'm open to making recommendations for people who are just going to do it. And meditation is usually you know, definitely in the C five Protocols, meditation is a standard, and even Mission RAMA who is doing the same kind of work back in the nineteen seventies in Peru also had meditation, and both groups recognized the power of meditation to kind of stabilize and calm you so

you're more were balanced and settled in a sense. Because there's there's you know, stories of people having C fives, especially the early C SETI years, where you know, they're like, yeah, we're gonna go out and make it the contact and do this, and then ships appear, you know, crafts come in fairly close, and people they ran and they drove away and sped away like they were you know, so stuff like that happens, and so it was all individual so you know, getting to the you know,

the communication part, right, there's when I observed basic forms of communication where there's an acknowledgment between you and the UFO or the intelligence, and there's you know, as far as if you receive impressions and telepathic downloads and things like that, again, trying to under understand what that is directly, that's something that has to be studied because if I receive an impression or a message,

I mean, how how am I supposed to validate that? So that's why I think that the C five work in contact needs more attention and study. I don't know if I want the military doing that, you know, because that that that's not their mission, right, and I understand Lou Alessando kind of emphasizes that, Uh, you know, the military has specific you know, goals and missions. So you know, I think we need science doing

that kind of thing. Different scientific groups. I mean, even even the Galileo Project and stuff, they're they're going to be looking for things to I'm not sure what kind of information they're going to gather, but uh, like the time being, even just collecting that data is going to be a form of communication in the sense until you know, there is a more profound level

of contact. Because even let's say we get three people and we're all say there's three US government people and they're sanctioned, they say, listen, we're going to do the C five protocols and and do the communication, you know, and they all get the same message. You know, even at that point, how do you validate the message that you're getting is accurate? Number one? And number two? And I hate to say this as as like a contact person, but how do you even how do you trust it?

Right? How do you know it's to take it? At face value and and and something I always come back to, even with my own experiences is the interpretation of that of the you know, even just the person interpreting the information, is how much of that is rubbed off from their own subconscious I hope that that answers some of your questions. Now you can kind of beat me, James. Actually Nathan has something a whole topic that he's going to want to go into with you on that very part of how can we trust

certain things? And it's an interesting hypothesis he has deb Did you have any follow up as to that or was that it I remember they were talking about. Yeah. I actually was going to say, I think that's a very interesting perspective to mention that there might be something electronic in our consciousness is kind

of what I got from the first part of that, right. And then you know, of course people have talked about using math and symbols, all very interesting ideas, and hopefully you are right, science will embrace that and let us know. Yeah, and I think there's there's there are I don't want to say even claim deast eye. Maybe it's better to say proprietary studies into that. Right now, Well, it's proprietary. That's how these things, that's how the good stuff operates as proprietary, so that that is it

is being looked into. And the scientists that are dealing with that are they have good ideas, but they're they're just as baffled as us in the UFO community. Even if they have some interesting details and hypotheses and and even the science to back up some of what their hypothesis is that they still don't have the answers to the bigger questions. They're they're just as But yeah, they can see Emi and say, okay, I think there could be something so

materialize here, but they can't. The biggest and we got to get a caution in here because she's got a question for you, but nobody knows how. The biggest problem i'm right now is we don't have to contact them. We don't know. We can't key the mic when they you know, when Ryan Graves see those those circle inside a cube thing and say hey, hey guys, you know, can you land on the carrier deck because we just

want to have a dialogue with you, to speak to them. As far as we know there there there may be, there may be something that we just don't know about. And I have to say I would think that the the UFO phenomenon, if it wanted to, it could clearly facilitate that kind of communication. Has it happened and and it's been classified by the NSA. I have no idea. I have no idea, and I wouldn't I wouldn't stake it either way. I wouldn't say yes or no because I really have

no idea. Yeah, well, dev thank you for coming on to ask your question. We're really glad to have you with us, and I know you're back in the chat, so we'll we'll definitely be looking for future questions that you got there, and I appreciate you you spent some time with us. I'm gonna bring a Kashi on because you had a question as well. Our esteemed associate producers Hi Hi jings Hey. So as I was watching all kinds of videos and looking into everything that you're doing, I started doing my

own research. And today I was telling I was telling the guys and I'm like, okay, I'm gonna download just to just to see what you know, what this is all about. I'm gonna download the C five app and and I want to kind of look into it because I I don't want to have an opinion about something that I haven't even researched. But but at the same time as I'm as I'm looking through this and starting again NUBI at this.

So it looks like once you achieve that awareness of consciousness, true consciousness, right, So it's the concept of consciousness, not the things that happened, but consciousness the fact that I have a conscience that I am conscious of the things around me. Once you get you know, so you go through

the C five programs. So once you have gotten to that point and you've been able to experience, is that something that your mind is just now more open to things and now you've kind of made us like like almost your brain has switched a little bit to be more of a hub or do you still consider the C five methodology necessary to grow that, grow that experience or evolve it. Yeah, that's a great question, Thank you. And you have

a very cool background, by the way. So yeah, I mean, I guess there's a few things you can go over there, because you know, I just to be honest, there's gonna be people that are exceptional in these regards for no other reason. Maybe genetics, predeposition conditioning, so you know you're going to have your picassos that for some reason they can just tune

in no protocols, know nothing. You know, people might not like this example, but you know doctor Stephen Greer, Christopher Bledsoe, Dorothy Ease that there's people that can you know, but it so happened that those people had a particular kind of spiritual inclination. So I don't know if that's telling to one thing or another, but there you have your there's people that are gonna

have an easier time with that. But generally speaking, for the majority of people, I think regular mindfulness or meditation practices are going to help facilitate that.

And you know it doesn't have to be so overtly as sitting meditation, seeded meditation, although I would recommend that as a stable for people that are going to endeavor in to see E five in contact, you know, even project unity j you know he was saying, how you know, he would climb and he gets in the zone, so that that zone is you know what in in Travada we'd call mind body you know, body mind awareness, and that's actually a very powerful state. I would say for facilitating this kind

of contact. Even in Grant Cameron's book, uh there, you know,

uh contact modalities they were taught. John Burroughs was you know, the Randall Shrump experiencer, and he had this, you know, pretty crazy experiences and you know, I think it was doctor kit Green or somebody else had recommended to him doing combining a type of crapulia, yoga and vipasana at the same time, you know, combining those practices because you're basically doing a hemi sync effect, you're balancing the nervous system and so you know, seeded meditation is

one thing, but you know, you could actually do a contact sequence while you're doing a workout, you know, while you're doing a job, while you're doing music, while you're doing art, and that could be very effective. But uh, seeded meditation, yeah, I would. I would recommend

that. And what I have found personally is that, you know, concentration based exercises do help, although you don't want to get too locked into concentration, but those I actually found out later that what they call them in Buddhism the genas uh, which are concentration states, but in actually Buddhism, the foundation of all Buddhist magic is the genas and those are concentration states. So

differ different different modes are going to work for different people. You have the CE five protocols, which for people listening, the basic CE five protocols are not necessarily necessary for CE five itself, but they're a good guideline. And the C five protocols would basically be to do one of these meditations, whether you're using proniama, counting the breath, you know, open awareness, kind

of zen. There's all different practices you can do. But once you do that practice for any amount of time, you know again I have ten, fifteen, twenty minutes, an hour, and then after you you do the meditation practice, then you do what it is called CTS, which is coherent thought sequencing, which is what doctor Stephen Greer would say is a remote viewing.

So you're actually going to remote view UFO intelligence and use a visualized a visualization vector to remote view them basically back to your location and go back and forth through that process for another fifteen or twenty minutes if you can stand it. So that's the basic CE five protocols is doing meditation and then doing what it's called CTS, if you can't remote view, you just use visualization and

that will work as well. Did I answer your question? Yeah? You did, because first of all, I just kind of wanted to see if you were if you kind of it looks like you still follow the C five you know, you know methodology, and that's something that probably helps you also evolve. I mean for somebody like me that has like the attention span on that, I have really bad add so it's like really hard for me to meditate, and it's like I need you know that, that kind of structure.

But I was leading with that. I'm sorry it was I I've never tried it. I I'm looking at people like you that you know, I mean, you have experience with it, and the fact that you know it really kind of correlates with a lot of other things I've been looking at, you know, the thought experiments that Einstein used to do, the Acosa records and the access to that. It's like some kind of it's like this web

that's all tied together. And that's why I'm looking at C five because it's all part of the puzzle somehow, I don't know how, but it's like if you miss one part of the puzzle. That puzzle is not going to come together and it's going to look like you know, yeah, well I was. I was even gonna do a video a while back called, you know, UFOs and the observer effect, because you have something like that going

on almost with CE five and intention and awareness. But that's that's what I like about the CE five protocols is that they're great training wheels if you have you know, no formal introduction to any of this, and you I mean, it just makes sense where you can do A, B and C and have D as the result. I mean, it's simple, it's straightforward.

And I would say, if you're serious about you know, pursuing that, you know, follow the protocols to the t for a few months and then at that point, you know, c start experimenting a little, you know, because you know, at that point you should have some responses and you'll you'll intuitively kind of devise your own approach based on your own inclinations that actually

that process will probably happen instinctually. Almost it did for me, where I still mess around with to SEE five protocols, but like ninety percent of the time I'm doing my own protocols. That that I just that's where I was leading at some point. You now you're kind of got that connection. Yeah, yeah, so you do your own at some point. But anyway, I'm gonna let Nathan and talk. But for my part, I don't think I've ever had a challenge to me. He said, try it for how

long? Six months? A couple of months? He said, a couple of months. Yeah, I tried for a couple of months, and then we're going to regroup. How how how how often are you going to be doing it? Well, okay, now you're talking details. Well, yeah, you can stay the challenge. You can put the challenge on Twitter so I can give the time back to Nathan DJ. You put the challenge on Twitter, tell me how often I'm gonna try it? Anybody else that may

want to participate my Yeah. My only kind of advice as far as that is like what you put into it is what you're going to get out of it. Again, there's there's some kind of people that they had it's beginner's luck. I mean I've seen people where like the first time to have an experience, it's just like incredible. And then if I know people took them

a few months and they were having very basic kind of experiences. But then again they they eventually started having pretty profound ones, but that it was only after they were doing it for months going out And those were people, some of them I went out with. I was going out with them maybe once or twice a week for oh yeah, I used to do when I in the earlier days, I can say I was doing this almost every single day for several hours a day. Like you know, there's like a professional level

of C five. I'm up there for sure, amazing. One last thing and I'll let you go, is I. I'm not having any expectations except for going through that journey. Because even just if I can get to meditate and feel like I'm more aware, that's the win. So I can and according to things I see, it's like you have to kind of go in kind of in an open mind and your heart and know, you know, ill intentions. So that's how I'm gonna step into it. It's a challenge.

See you on Twitter. I'll let you guys take that over. Ladies and gentlemen. I was going to say, I don't think I've had a coherent thought sequence ever, So Nathan, this revolutionary if I could have the co the sequence with those introductions that you do on this channel, there's some kind of coherent all going. I agree, I agree, he's a master at that. So, James, I guess the question I have for you? Uh, well, I just I'm sorry, I just want to do

one insert here please. People will may be curious about CE five here. Of course, there is a free PDF book, uh that I know somebody in the CE five network created called C five C five field Workers Guy, and I believe there's a website and a PDF. When when the show is over, I will send it to you. I'll send you the link a CE five manual and it's on Amazon where you can buy the PDF for one dollar or it's it's just free on the website. Okay, So we'll put

that in the description. Man, that'd be great. Yeah, there's it's not just the C five protocols. There's several different approaches in there, and they guarantee, I mean again, they guarantee within six times you'll have some kind of experience. Right. But again it's it's a very useful tool and it's free. Yeah. Well that's awesome. So what I wanted to ask you about, I know, You're familiar with the work of Leslie Kane uh

and doctor Jeffrey Mischlove, who I know you've spoken with. And where I'm going with this question is what are your thoughts on the intersection or connection between things like physical mediumship and see five. We think there's some kind of uh, you know, similar mechanism or pathway that is occurring. There are we manifesting these objects rather than them, you know, coming to us, separate from us? Are they part of us? And is something? Is that

something you've explored. Yeah, I'm gonna say it's it's We're there's several different phenomena that are going on that are intersecting, and there's all that is going on. I'm going to say some of it is literally probably what we would call extraterrestrial intelligence and is literally using just a super super advanced technology to facilitate these kind of interactions and manifestations like literally just technology. They've they've mastered the

stuff, even the science of consciousness. But some of it is what we would consider spiritual technology. And there are entities and intelligences that interact in that way. And I've had different experiences where you there's different qualities like that and again this is beyond what I can explain. But there's there's certainly different qualities of interactions where some seems technological and some seems like spiritual and again metaph physical

spiritual, however you want to you know, phrase that. You know, even some of the stuff at Skinwalker Ranch, there's probably a combination of stuff there where some of it may be technological and some of it maybe what we would consider spiritual or metaphysical. Okay, So and I think that how do

you, I mean, how how do you distinguish between those two? So I guess I'm I think I struggle with the technology component of your answer, Like, what how do you identify that it's technological and not spiritual or metaphysical. Well, I mean there's there's some interactions where there's there's a light, but there's you can see a craft like an outline of a physical craft. And you know, things like the TIC TAC have qualities that I would consider

that technological. Yeah, I would consider them to have technological components where there's some things that you can encounter which there there seems to be no technological component that Now that doesn't negate the fact that it's a form of technology that we just don't understand. But again, some paranormal things, they just don't seem

to be technological in nature in the way that we understand it. Maybe against spiritual technology, but not technological in the way that we perceive it as using tools in that sense. So to be able to distinguish between that, I mean, you literally just have to have a ton of experiences and compare them and contrast them and give it your best. Guess, got it? So

that again, I don't think there's a hard science to that. Maybe somewhere there is a better understanding where you know, in classified programs they can determine based on you know, different signatures that something is technological and something's metaphysical. You know, they were studying stuff at Skinwalker Ranch. We've never seen all the results of those studies. We don't know what they garnered from that.

And that's just one. You know, OSAP was one program, right, Ramirez was absolutely fascinating with your friend Jay from Project Unity, who is somebody I'm going to start to pursue, but I listened today. Do you want to talk about Johnny come lately? This interview was probably like two months ago or whatever. The hell it was, and I just listened. I'm not

even finished with it. But Ramirez is fascinating, and he is offering us in a window into things that Heretofore, I can't say we didn't have a window into some but because by virtue of the fact, we have Lou Alizondo. But now you're having a guy who's a GS fifteen retired who's backing up a lot of the things that Lou said and expanding on other areas that Lou

hasn't really gone into. And that guy's been authenticated. I've talked to somebody in d O d who who ran his social Security number that he got from him, and he's who he says he is. Yeah, we're going to bring on somebody else for you, James. We have Stephen Greer's flair. I would love to add. Yeah, Greers Flair our our chief show and humorous antagonist. Greers Flair Man, James, I can hear you. Are you at Vero Beach, Florida? Over there? No, I'm actually in

California. You know, I'm ready to party. All right, I've got a question for you. It's about it's about alien abduction. Since we're on that topic, anyway. Sure, so that now that the mask mandates are up, you know, they're they're they're going, we got those mask mandates, and do you think that might be abduct the aliens may be abducting the wrong people. I don't know. I can't think that that's the reason for

disclosure, because the wrong people are getting taken. And you know that's a big deal because they can't they can't tell who the real person is that you're saying, right, they can't tell the difference. Yeah, they're like, oh is that James? No stj So if this could just be causing a lot of they're going to go after XO academian. They're gonna get Nathan, total chaos. Do you know what the actual you know, we can consider them alien intelligence. They they seem to have. They can know where you

are. I think I can't wear a disguise like maybe the bed or I think maybe like a you know, a gray alien mask, you know what I mean? Yeah, sorry, that's too bad. She looks like one of them that you know we left factory. They're gonna find you anyways. You just die. Mom. In his theory, I mean, James, he thought that he could really disguise himself. He doesn't want to do with Travis Walton. He's gonna be suffocating. He's naked. We're gonna find it.

Put my mask on. I'm ready. I'm ready sleep with my you know, my sick. I can bribe him. Got my lollipop. Yes, you should have a dowry you know, actually I owe uh, I owe Andy mcgrill and a dowry for Nathan. But yeah, you should definitely have some money in sort of a tray in the side of your bed because you never know, I mean a big coiner. Yeah, you never know when you're gonna lose a tooth. Yeah right, I love it, especially if you're mistake with the bucks, could be all of it right there.

Oh yeah, yeah, I don't know. That might be why they don't take me. I've hit myself so many times. We would never have known that that that that's happened. So gre Flair, grears Flair, do you have anything else before we get you out of here or throw you out here? That's it. I'm good. That was my theory. All right. The mask is not going to prevent abduction, Okay, all right, thank you, Stephen Greers Flair, Thank you, very much. Brother, We'll talk to you incredible. I love I. Yeah, James, I had

a very similar question. So I'm glad that that that we got that out of the way. Uh. And also Akashi said, there's a couple of questions from the audience. Kashi, could you throw up the ones that you would like James to consider or Nathan. Yeah, I'll let her hunt that down. Let me ask you a question James from for some recent take. So, I know you've been keeping up with doctor Dana Pasolka and that she's been coming back on the scene. We're gonna have her on the show on

Monday next week, so looking forward to that chat with her. She recently commented about the Collins Elite and that she didn't think that it was necessarily an actual thing, but she was surprised to find the number of people within, Uh, you know the Pentagon or you know the powerful circles who who are you know, very devout religious Christian believers. What is your your take on

that? Do you think that that it does that kind of add additional weight to this concept from Elizondo that you know, these folks are really pushing hard back against studying that this phenomenon. Further, how do you kind of hear that from her? I mean, just I have to go based on my my own research, and and what I found is that there are groups like

that and and and some of them are competing. So there's some that are just religious fundamentalists, and there's some that are religious fundamentalists eschatologists, and and and the they like legitimately not like oh kind of like sort of, And these stories go back and and people that have penetrated deep into this world, you know, sometimes to their detriment, have encountered that. And it's I

don't I don't think that keeps coming up for no reason. You know, even you know, Christopher Blood so I don't know if he said it, but his son has Ryan Blood so on on the podcast is very outspoken about out you know, these different secret societies in the Pentagon, and I'm convinced that they exist. They may not be in an organized matter where they're having meetings saying listen, guys, this is what they have we have to do.

But just by them having those beliefs and acting on them and and trying to pursue their agendas and a belief that that might interfere with the process, and if they have substantial power and influence, that's going to affect the results of of what's going on. And I think that this these these people have

existed from the beginning of the entire disclosure process. Again, you go back and doctor Stephen Greers is talking about the Majestic twelve group, but he's talking about these eschatologists that he encountered, that that believe that they're going to bring forth the Second Coming by doing what they're doing, and parsonally involved with this

subject. So I think that there are legitimate groups like that. I don't know how well organized there are, but they there seems to be several groups like that that are competing with each other well, and I kind of think it's just a free for all, right, And again there's probably atheist groups. I know, Yeah, I've heard. I've heard a lot of stories, and based on the patterns of all that, I think that there's there are several groups like that that are competing and I'm sure that they want their

narrative to win. So that's probably part of what's going on too. You know, you have the competing narratives that are going to facilitate what they believe is what they believe is the right thing to do, because I don't think

they're you know, they're going out there. I mean I think they actually literally believe, you know, some of these things, and they're acting on that, and you know if that might not always be in our best interests, right, I mean, they could be making decisions that influence us, all based on some kind of idea we would consider wacky or unfounded. Yeah, I'd actually like to get Nathan, I'd like to get your take if you're surprised, And in addition to that, what's your take on it is

kind of just like what you asked James. Yeah, so I think it's understandable how how it's an ideology that took hold. So if you think about when the phenomenon started to really be encountered by the government, at least the accounts that we're most familiar with after we started testing the nukes and and Roswell course comes to mind. You know, that was a time period in our country's history when Christianity was so widely held, like it was a very deeply

held belief within you know, the majority of the country. Most people went to church as people grew up into church. There were different denominational beliefs, but the kind of fabric of society was very Christian in nature. So encountering a downed craft or beings, you know, you're going to view that entire

encounter through that kind of religious lens. I guess what surprises me about that is that that was a long time ago, so you know, as time has moved on since then, there surely have been different actors and players involved with the phenomenon who are bringing their own sort of new religious or non religious

perspectives to play as they interact with whatever this happens to be. And James, you know, you just hinted at that there could be very very much competing factions within the government of those who have access, those who buy into this sort of end of the world cult, if you will, and those who who are pursuing it purely on sort of scientific grounds and merit, you know, And you kind of see that that faction represented really well through the

Galileo Project, and I think, quite frankly through what lou and Chris are advocating for an open, transparent study of whatever this happens to be, kind of reducing the stove piping that has occurred, and just sharing information so we can we can master this or get on top of this before our adversaries might be able to do so. As far as the ideology itself, and I

want to talk to that for a second. The end of the world, you know sort of when he says eschatology we're talking about is it's the study of the end of the world basically, and in the Book of Revelation in

the Bible. You know that Christians throughout throughout history have read that book and have kind of tried to extract extract from that book, uh you know, meaning or prophecies or uh, you know, sort of breadcrumbs that that they can overlay on their own time and say this, we're actually living in the end time that this book is speaking about, so you know, the return of Christ is near, the end of the world is near, and and

we're living in that actual time now. There are lots of different flavors of this belief, and I won't go into all of those, but the short of it is, if they kind of hold this worldview, and if they've interacted with the phenomenon and what it purportedly can do, then I think they're taking these concepts and saying, we actually now have the tools and the signs to be able to accelerate the return that is heralded in the Book of Revelation,

and so they want to be able to do that. It's a very when when you kind of step back from that, it's a very seductive and powerful kind of narrative. So those in my opinion who've latched onto this way of thinking, it's a bit of a power trip to think that like they can kind of hold the reins on this thing and bring about usher in the end of the world, as as propheside in this book. I think it's

I think it's historically very very shallow. I mean, and I say that because every generation has basically had its profits or it's it's interpreters who've looked at that book and done the exact same thing. You know, they looked at that book and said, oh, you know in the eighteen hundreds, you know, oh this is this is you know, Abraham Lincoln is the Antichrist, and you know, like this is all going to be over after such

and such. So this has happened over and over and over again. And any student of history who looks at that will tell you like, it's never actually come to fruition. And so, you know, I look at that and look at that repetitive, repetitive sort of cycle, and I say, there's not a lot to taking that particular position. But I guess when it comes to this one topic, you only have to be right once right, so you only you know, the end of the world will in fact happen

at some point. At least in mylogical sense, we know that the end of our you know, our own galaxy is going to you know, end at some point, So it will happen one day. You know. How close are we to that that moment? I don't know, But it does bother me that there are those empower and positions of influence who seem to have

adopted that belief system for two reasons. One they're either deluded and and and are ill informed and just you know, laying their own theological preconceptions onto whatever this happens to be or and this is the worst, the worst one. Or they actually have enough knowledge about something that we don't have to where it brings actual credibility to what to to to to buttressing their their theology and on

that point. I'm actually that that that really concerns me when I hear things from Diana Pasoka where she's saying, you know, there she encounters a lot of people who've become more fervently religious after they've studied this, uh, you know Tyler she made today, you know, and she mentioned in her book American Cosmic, she talks about Tyler, who we all know is as somebody else, but he converted to Catholicism after traveling with her to the Vatican,

and he's, you know, supposedly been very closely connected to the phenomenon. So that those things are a little troubling to me that that there, you know, there really might be some meat there, There could be a there there. In other words, well, so we talked about is that you read a lot of people will reevaluate their life after some sort of a close contact. My boss, my ex boss in the position before now I was a very very devoutly Catholic man, but he's also a very scientific man as

well. And he told me at the outset when I told him I was interested in delving into this topic with my show and all that which we start doing, he said, people that are religious are going to have an issue with this as far as the Pentagon is concerned. I don't I know guys and gals that have worked there. I've never there, but I would imagine that if there were a vocal majority would be the religious one. It would not be the anti religious one that would be a vocal or a majority.

It's just not something that would win you friends in an organization like that. Well, I did want to ask you that question to you, Jay, so in your experience within the Air Force and the military generally, I mean, I'm under the impression that, you know, kind of a Christian worldview is kind of the predominant worldview within people who are in the military, just broadly. But is that kind of is that one? Is that true? Is that a valid assumption? In two? Is it? Is it overt

like it? Is it pretty prevalent within the culture that in the in the military. I would say generally yes, But I also have to suffix that with the fact that most of the last decade plus of my career was in Air Force Special Operations and that was very white, very Christian, very conservative, those street things, and if you were outside of that norm, then

you were sort of an outlier. So I was ascribing though what you said is kind of my experience a little bit, and trying to project that that I couldn't envision the Pentagon being like that, but that might also not be be accurate. But yeah, they were the vocal majority, and if you weren't some of that, then you were the not very vocal minority. But let's bring on. So we got a question for James. We'll do what

I'd like to do. This is from my brother, Stuart Mullins, Chris's husband, my new friend, and what we'd like to do is do a C five question. But James, I would feel that we didn't do it justice if we didn't really get into what your experiences have been. So after this one, I'd like to go there. But please let's entertain Stewart's question. Yeah, okay, I'll ask it if you want a question for Dan please, not a problem at all. So what role does local location play?

And see five? Does the distance from a city or lights or people make a big difference noise pollution? Uh? Generally speaking, I would encourage that people get into uh, you know, wherever is going to be easiest for them to just do it, right? You know, don't make it where like you're you feel like, oh, I have to wait, you know, next month when I can get out to this you know, quiet location to do it. I've had experiences in the middle of New York City,

in Midtown Manhattan that were profound on several occasions. So I mean, it doesn't you know, you know, if you're in LA and the sky is really hazy, there's still people over there doing some you know, the This is the UFO Summoners. I believe George Knapp had them on. They are out over there in California and even in those hazy skies are having great

experiences. So while it does play a role, I don't make that an excuse for yourself and don't make that a priority unless you're going out and you're doing like a you know, if you're doing a field work investigation, you're going to collect data, You're going to set up some cameras. Yeah, get into a location where that's gonna, you know, be ideal. But if you're just trying to do it to see if it works, or you're just to do it as a you know, something that you're trying to learn

or practice or even do on a regular basis. Don't let that hold you back. So so James, like, even like a burned out building in the South Bronx, you know, with people doing crack all around you, that would still be an appropriate place. You could still do it there and it will still work. Yeah, I mean again, I'm just kidding, no, but I really think of New Jack City, you know that.

Yeah, I mean again. The part, the bigger part of that is how that that environment affects you mostly rather than oh, the phenomenon is not going to come here and interact because you know, I can't say I know their psychology, but I don't know how judgmental they are. Although like again, if sometimes if you have like a camera and you're just like waiting, like, oh, I'm going to take a picture of this interaction, it's

going to totally mess up your mojo. It's I mean again, And and you have to come to question of is that part of your own mind where if that is, that's your intention and your priority, and it's interacting with the actual experience of just being there with new expectation and being involved in the process, rather than like now you're thinking you're waiting and that kind of thing

is a distraction. So there's there's a few parts of that equation. Are there places that can magnify the experience though, like other places in the world that you think have a donut baby? Yeah? Yeah, I mean yeah, So that that's that is. I think that's something that's true where there's locations where there's higher contact. But I don't want to phrase this the wrong way, but just as important location as there's there's certain people that just they

have an affinity to the contact where it doesn't matter where you are. If you were with Chris bloodsoe, you might experience something kind of thing. And I'm not even kidding about that. You know, again, Stephen Greer in the early days, I can't say much for now, but in the early nineties, you know, and I know people that were with him in many occasions he was a UFO magnet. And you're talking, you know, not

just orbs of light. Sometimes what seemed to be physical spacecraft for lack of a better word, always seemed to be around wherever he was or when you went to hang out with him, when you went back home, there'd be residual psychic effects both with the UFO phenomenon, and you know, individual subjective experience. So those those kind of things exist. So location, yeah, is one thing. People are another. But more importantly for everybody listening,

your own conditioning is going to be your main concern priority. So it's not the three l's of real estate, it's just one L out of other elements. Let's talk about your experiences, James, because I want to get I want to get down to the nitty gritty and when I have that much time with you. So we got about nineteen minutes, so my brun tell us what went down? Man? Well, I mean, do you have any specific questions for me to go to the whole because I've told I've told the

story a few times. I mean, if you want to just here on your channel, I can tell you the story and kind of like a chronological order, or if you have specific questions, that's fine. No, I mean just sort of a even one anecdote, right, like one that really stuck with you the most, you know, maybe that there's again it's yeah, it's not just well and and again I've I've told stories of all these different encounters that are kind of like the highlights. But you know, I've

been doing contact work. I've for for this whole time. So I've I've had hundreds of not in the thousands of encounters by now wow, you know, yeah, literally, And I'm not I'm not exaggerating, and I don't I don't generally speak like that because you know, it's kind of comes off the wrong way. But it's just as a matter of fact, you know, there's I'm not the only one. There's again, Chris Bledsoe is always out there having encounters. So there's there's plenty of people that are having regular

encounters. So did you have when the when the book came out the skin Walkers at the Pentagon and it proposed this hitchhiker or contagion hypothesis? Have you experienced that at all? Or anyone close to you experience that at all? After the experiences that you've had, has there been some kind of you know, contact effect. Yeah, after effects are a major part of the UFO phenomenon. But and I know what Diana was talking about too when she was

recently speaking about it. She knows scientists that studied that, and so do I. And there were real effects that were in some cases very negative. Uh. But again, as just as I mentioned, you know, there there's also the same effect but positive. And again you know, I know, Nathan, you have like a religious background, you can even go into something like shock depot or transmission and those kind of things, and that's similar phenomenon. And again I don't like the idea of so much of gurus and

and that kind of thing. But you know, there's a thing again I mentioned with Stephen Greer, there are people that would encounter him and hang out with him for a while and go out and do some C five with him and then go back and there would be residual effects for a while. Same with Dorothy Eazat, the same thing was reported people would come by and visit her and then come back to their homes and have spiritual experiences UFO encounters.

So in that regard the hitchhiker thing, there's it's not just negative like that they reported from skin Walker, and I believe what they reported was true. I don't think that they're they're just trying to spin it in a negative way. I know people that did the science there and those things that they said did happen, so that they're not trying to just spin that in a way for a kind of agenda. What they said happened, uh, and it's

it's it's true. But what isn't highlighted there is what they didn't experience, at least over there was that there's there's the same thing where you can have a healing experience in the UFO phenomenon, you know, and that's a residual after effect. So there's that's a that's part of a much bigger conversation,

and the hitchhikers thing is just the beginning of the conversation. Right looking back through history of different religions and and kind of how religions have spun out from exper sperience, you know, that is very similar in many ways to experiences that we're hearing about with the phenomenon. Does it strike you that there seems to be a kind of like recursive selection happening, Like like it's not like everyone's having this experience, you know, it's it's not that every and people

who may genuinely want to have an experience. I mean, there are millions of people around the world who consider themselves to be devout believers of X Y Z, and I don't think that most of them are having, you know,

kind of similar experiences. But there are those within those pockets of belief who have very profound, significant, dramatic experiences that end up kind of creating or spinning out sort of new follower groups, new ways of trying to recreate the experience that that they're particular leader or profit or whatever explained or tried to

explain to their followers. It almost seems as if we're in a Yeah, you know, the Earth is some kind of like the sphere of information that is like selecting people throughout history to be representatives or contact experiencers, and then the rest of us are kind of latching onto these nodes of of interaction, and then we're building stuff around them, like we're kind of elevating that one thing that they had and trying to build structure and systems and you know,

organizations around them, things that we now call religion or other systems. What do you think about that take on it, oh Man, human nature? Yeah, I canna say humanity. Yeah, I mean I think that that everybody has the potential if they want to to have those kind of experiences. But I take issue with that. I mean, I don't mean to be you know, I'm not trying to push it back in a net negative way. But I come from a very you know, I come from a background

that is religious. I'm not religious anymore, but you know when I hear bledsoe, Ryan, let let's talk about you know, his dad and his dad's experiences. And it comes across as like, you know, you just have to you just have to believe x y z. You just have to do x y z and then you're going to have an experience. It's very

formulaic, and that is not true. I don't I really don't believe that to be true because because he's explaining his experience and process, right, so what my process or you know, DJ's process is going to be completely different. They've some of these people have found it, you know, Dorothy Easat, I think that. I mean, again, there's this thing where it comes down to oh, the you know, the genetics or the quode nucleus

and and that kind of thing. But I don't believe it's just limited to that, because I've seen people come from not really having any experiences to having profound experiences when they actually tried and they went about it. You know, but again, what's your threshold? How serious are you're taking it? You may think you really want it. But here, like here's the thing. And this is gonna sound dumb, really, but like I can say I want a Mercedes, right and it's like a cool fantasy and I have it

in my head and I can imagine driving this Mercedes. But there's there's there's people who who who want something, and there's people who really want something, and there's people who are just gonna do whatever it takes and and and they're just gonna get the Mercedes, like they don't give a crap how They're gonna just do it. And once they have it, they have it, you know. So I think there's a kind of an attitude of that where you know, again once you have and again I can this is just thinking on

it. I can't say this is a fact. I'm just thinking out loud here. I think that if I don't think that there's there's people that just can't it's impossible for them to have any of these type of experiences. I just don't think that's the case necessarily. Have you have you ever read the

book The Outliers? No, okay, you know that's the book by by Malcolm Gladwell, And yeah, so I mean you know they were even saying like, the people that are talented are are not even the people who end up being like the top because they get lazy and the people who just put in the damn work. You know, Michael Jordan has kicked off his the high school team. Randy Moss and Jerry Rice are actually a really good example. Randy Moss is one of the most talented physical receivers we've ever seen.

Jared Rice had the better production, right the ten thousand Hours concept, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's from that's from the Outliers. So again, I mean, you know, and he he, Michael Jordan's arguably one of the greatest players. And I'm not even like a sports person, but I just remember that from that was an example that they used in the book. So I don't think that there's people that are physically incapable of having those experiences. However, there are people that seem to just like in my

case, I didn't. It's not like I was like a small child and I was like, please let this shit happened to me and just f my life up, you know, for better or worse. Right, I just you know, And again, there's different frameworks to look at. That is this is it karmic, is it have to do? Is it genetic? Is it a combination of those? Is does your karma have cause and effect

and cause your genetics? You know, again, there's you can bring this into a whole spiritual metaphysical thing or you know, did I did I before I incarnated into this world? Did I choose that this was going to be my path kind of thing? You know, like Dolores Cannon territory or even you know, New Age before that. So my my belief is that I don't think that there are people who are physically incapable of having such experiences.

But I mean, I don't you know, know that necessarily everybody really wants to be thrown into that, right, and it may be no way to empirically test it, you know, and if they don't want it, it ain't gonna happen. Well, maybe it will actually, yeah, I mean there's people, yeah, I mean there's people who who definitely don't don't want to have abductions. And abductions had occurred, even though the majority of them

after the fact come out saying that they somehow positively transformed them. And that's a lot of what John max Work brought forward and people like you know, Ray Hernandez and or I can't say Edgar Mitchell, but the Eddar Mitchell Foundation, which was the Free Organization or now c CRI I the Conscious Contact Research Institute. With Ray Hernandez, he's the guy maybe you want to have on he's going to be releasing I believe volumes two and three. Ray Hernandez.

Yeah, Ray Hernandez, I can put you in touch with him, familiar with his experience. It's fascinating, it's incredible. And but you know, just as incredible as is the work that that he's doing with Rudy Shields and and all these other people. Doctor Joseph Burkes wrote a chapter. I believe that he has written another chapter that's coming out in a new volume. You know, John Alexander wrote wrote a chapter for the Beyond. UFO's massive.

It's like a text, it's like a university textbook. It's massive, and they're coming out. They had to come out with the new volumes. They actually split it up into separate volumes because it was just like so massive that you know, they're like, okay, let's give people like two or three hundred pages at a time instead of like eight hundred and nine hundred page volumes. I have a question for Nathan. Then we actually have another question for

James. That'll probably get the last question. But Nathan, speaking of CCR, do you see a bad moon rising? Come on, James, you're supposed to smile. It was in the contract. Yeah, writer, he didn't get his M and ms. That was the pieces. Now there we go. Do you see a religiosity in the way that we're interacting on UFO Twitter right now? Do you do you have a sense that we're becoming or a burgeoning religion of some sort. Yeah, well, I think that the

the the ingredients are certainly there. Whether or not it comes to fruition, it remains to be seen because in some ways, I think these things take,

you know, generations to really transform. So I don't know that we would necessarily see that come to fruition in our short period of time, but I could see it happening, you know, over a long period of time, mainly if we start getting to a place where there is a way that we're saying, look, you can experience the phenomenon through doing X Y Z. Essentially, I'm gonna use it a word for that, A ritual you know. So if there's a ritual that you can do to have an experience,

people will do it. You know, they will adopt the ritual and it will become more ritualized over time, and then those who are very good at it will become the the James mentioned kind of the gurus or the priests or the you know, I'm just using terms that we're familiar with, but they'll be the ones who folks will gather around to look to as the experts, you know, and whatever those experts say, as you know, I found this to work, you know, then that is what their followers will

do in hopes that they too can have a perceived experience that that is oftentimes kind of conflated with like a souvific experience. There there's a reason why we want, you know this, There has to be some inner drive why people want to connect with this whatever it is. And and and that could be different reasons for different people that I'm in to be the same thing. But

but the ingredients, in other words, are there. And and you know, Stephen Greer might be a good example as someone who's kindind of elevated himself to some degree, whether rightly or wrongly, you know, as a guru, and a lot of people do look to him in this in this way, you know, So where I kind of try to keep my guard up is at least with this is and as you guys both know, there's so many different interpretations of what's going on. There's so much, so many different

avenues of interest and information. You know, I kind of side in the camp that we're never probably going to know what it is, but we you know, it's it's worth studying. You know, we need to really we need to devote time energy, our science, you know, our the our philosophers, you know, all of these, all of our good thinkers. You know, we need to devote that those folks to this so that we

can better understand it. And if we can, then if it becomes more real and less uh etheric, which is sort of how it feels now, then at that point we may start seeing, you know, the real foundation

of a future way of being of doing. And I kind of get gets to the I don't want to necessarily spend too much time on but because we have another question, but James, I do want to get your thoughts on, uh, you know, as a meditation practice practitioner, you know, what would you kind of advocate for people generally, because is this something that you would say, like if if if you had you know, you're if

it had your way, or I think it could be best? Would is it best for humanity kind of everyone to do this kind of thing and follow these kinds of practices and and engage that the phenomenon and stealing your ear show's term, But is this what you were Is this what we would recommend? Is this what we really want? Is this something that is even feasible? I guess is the way we way to put it? I mean, uh know in the sense where you know, it's not even recommendable for everybody to

be practicing meditation. Some people are going to have adverse effects. There's you know, percentage of the population that they start doing meditation and they you know, maybe it's other factors in their life and they just get into a thing, and i'd really you know, actually, one of the first podcast guests I had on Engaging the phenomenon is somebody named Daniel Ingram, and he talks to this about the meditation stuff. Right, like, getting into some meditation

territory is not advisable for everybody. In fact, it could make you want to quit your job and leave your marriage and all these things. And again, my friend Grant, I'll just say that he had a profound contact experience and it affected his relationship. I hope he doesn't mind me saying that. So those kind of things could happen because you could think it's some innocent, simple thing and you don't know what you're getting yourself into. And I'm not

saying that in a negative way. Again, my whole thing has it's been for me, I view it in a in an optimistic light. That's just how I see it, at least for me. But I you know, I don't think everybody should just do CE five because maybe not everybody is ready for C five, But maybe you could have dedicated research teams that are are doing that investigation. I wouldn't advise everybody play football like absolute. It's it's

absolute, you can't have There's nothing everybody should do, you know. It's I think it's an important thing to emphasize, and I'm not saying you haven't ever emphasized that, But I think for folks you know listening or folks in the community generally, you know that there is no one way to really experience

this. You know, there's no one methodology that is going to crack the code or you know, solve the problem or whatever it is, because it is it's just too diverse and weird to diverse, right, Yeah, And we need to be celebrating these different sort of modalities because it's through these different modalities that we're going to really get the answer. It's not through one avenue

of discovery. It's through many avenues of discovery and inquiry. It's like, not everybody's gonna want the one with you can never get the right combination. Never, I want the one that has the pudding and the chicken. No, but but TV dinners, that's what we're gonna do. Actually, the chef Boyarty. Everybody calls the chef Boyardy, it's not no. But even getting to the meditation thing too, is that you know, I'm forgetting her

first name. I believe her her last name was Willoughby or maybe that's her first name. But she had a university research project. It was initially it was called the Dark Knight pro and then they changed the name to be more academically appeasing and and not so, but it was it was about meditation and

people coming into what what it's called the dark Knight of the soul. So even people practicing mild mindfulness practice, which is is is just basic intentional awareness, present moment stuff, not even in some case milder so milder mindfulness just being you know, you can, eyes open awareness and just being aware of what's going on right now. So you know, there's different practices like mindfulness

based stress production, which is meant to be have health benefits. But some people even just practicing that, we're running into territory after continued practice where they start to realize that and again there's deeper fundamental questions to this, and it's it's you know, if they start realizing and it's you know, it's it's it's difficult to have that conversation because they can just start realizing things in their life that they don't like, and it can cause a you know what I

mean, it's it happens during pigeon pos It happens during pigeon posts, James. And by the way, I'm thinking, I need to take you down to peak skill and go to Prana Moon Yoga and let's take a class from my homegirl down there because she's an amazing yogi. Uh we have method of error. Has James ever suspected he was taken by the intelligence he has interacted with h I have no idea and not to my recollection, And I'm just gonna go say that I'm not somebody who is a fan of hypnotic regressions during

thing. I don't recall ever having being taken. I've had, I had frightening experiences, but I again, there there was there way for it to have happened in me not knowing sure, But I have no idea, not that I'm aware of. I don't think so. I don't think so. But you know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't want to find out through another means of just conscious recollection either. I wouldn't want to. I'm not I'm not a fan of hypnotic as regression, just just for my own you know.

Again, that's just my my way, just like in the meditation world. I'm not a fan of the whole past life thing. I have more of a zen philosophy in that way of here. Now, even if I remembered that I was something in a past life, it's like, how does that affect me? Now, and why is it relevant? Gotcha, James. I'm gonna leave all my meditation stuff in the Duffel bag when I come to New York. I'm not even gonna break it out, so you know, fine, all right? Max? So MAXI McCabe. So what's up,

brother, how are you doing? DJ is good see or to speak to you and to see you visually. It's good to see. That's an excellent beard. Your hair looks great, very very very soccer player kind of. I dig it, man. Yeah, so let me just frame this up. Nathan was one hundred percent correct today when he which he is most of the time. He said, uh oh, I think Max is thinking not about the experience around table. He's thinking he's coming on tonight. But

me, like an idiot, didn't clarify it. And so Max has joined us. He's had an amazing experience in the UK that blew my socks off now right now because I have socks on, but back then it did take the socks off. Max, my brother, man, it would take quite some time. I think you're near the end of your show that you planned, right, and James, nice to meet you. I apologize for the mix up, but yeah, no, I apologize something, idiot. It's a pleasure to have you on, man, Thank you, thank you.

I did have a question for Jones actually just before is have you had any what we might put into the box of paranormal shadow figures, poltergeist, anything like that happened to you after you began interacting with UFOs. I had all that actually mostly before beforehand, before, but yeah after as well, but more so before. So yeah, that I did have experiences with that.

That's why I I was gonna say, I tend to think some of it is connected, but to me it was at least it felt clear from if I could distinguish that they weren't the same phenomenon, but it was again something

that people can consider paranormal. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's interesting that we use this language is so limiting, right, Yeah, So whatever words we choose to use, we like to pigeonhole things and put them in boxes, which really oversimplify, oversimplifies things which are way more complex, and words just don't do it justice, right, So what happened to us here? I'll try and be brief. DJ Yes, sir, September October twenty fourteen.

I've never had any interest in the subject in my whole life, but didn't ask for any of this stuff to happen, and it was Some of it was positive, but we had a lot of negative stuff happened too that became completely out of our control and quite scary, to say the least. It became very unpleasant. But I'm aware that obviously there's a whole spectrum of things. I had a man. It's really difficult to talk about, but I'm

going to try it. So one night in September twenty fourteen, my daughter was at the front of our house with our neighbor's daughter and as they were at the front, I was Asleep's about eleven o'clock at night, they watched three balls of light in the sky that are making formations and patterns, and they shot off Eventually. She told me the next day, I was in the garden about four o'clock in the morning before I went to bed. I've

been working all night. As I was sitting there looking up at the beautiful, crisp, nice sky, beautiful starry night, really cold, there was a double flash of white light. So as I've just thought, well, lightning or something like this, and then I thought, well, it's not humid, there's no clouds. And as I was thinking that, another double flash of white light, pure brilliant white light. I've looked straight up and there are these two spheres of white light passing over my head. And then

they at a right angle. They shot off so fast that left trace lines ran through the house. There's nothing there a few minutes, maybe it was ten past four in the morning, because I looked at my watch, thinking I'll tell my daughter I'd seen the same thing that they'd seen. And as I've come into the house to lock the door because there's nothing happening now, they're gone. As I've locked the door, turned the key, turn around to go up the stairs, I was struck by what can only be classified

as a telepathic instruction. Wasn't words, but it certainly shocked me and stopped me in my tracks. And I my mind unrabbled it into don't close the

door, go outside and look up. So I did. And as I've stepped outside of the house and looked up, a huge golden object maybe fifty sixty feet up, not very high at all if you stacked this house on top of itself, a two story house which is about ten meters I now know this thing moved out and stopped right above me, so all at once, James, as I've stepped over that doorway and looked up, and I'm

gobsmacked. I felt like I was bathed in extremely strong static electricity. I mean all of my hair stood on end, all of it, not just the back of my neck. I wasn't scared or anything like this. So I'm stood under this thing. I'm struck with an overwhelming feeling of love, and so much that it made my eyes water, pin drops, silence. I'm just absolutely gobsmacked and in shock. The thing is probably a big as

a bus. It was like a horizontal diamond shape, but it only had a diamond shape because there were shards of light emanating from the center of it vertically around the edges. More towards the edges were golden tinged but moving plasma, and beyond that it appeared like plasma. It's the only thing I can equate it to. But it was so bright it should have burnt my eyes, like looking directly at the sun. But it was soft on the eyes. It was gentle on the eyes. It was like a a luminosity that

I'd never seen before. So beyond the edging. It was as if it was setting the air on fire. It was almost like flames. It was just absolutely beautiful and stunning. So I'm taking this in. I didn't know what else to do, so I just waved. What else do you do? Right then it started to dawn on me that it might not be safe, that I might be in danger. I just, you know, human brain starts thinking, this is insane. I can't believe what I'm seeing.

Why is it silent? I can hear myself breathing, my heart beat. It just was too crazy. Man tingles up my spine, going over my scalp or the hairs on end. I looked left to see if any of

the neighbors were awake, because I need someone else to see this. I considered running into the house because the door was still open, to wake people up, but I felt from the moment it told me to go outside and look up, I felt an overwhelming sense of being watched and observed a complete INTI connection, as if it was still connected to me, like it knew my thoughts. And it was at this point that I considered, my phone is in my top top left jacket pocket, and then I actually take a

picture. I've got to take a video or picture or something. The moment that I thought that this thing starts to move left, Yeah, I left the moment, and I felt like I'd messed up. I felt like it did not want that bit, like it was an intimate moment just for me. So I start to walk under it, saying no, no, no, no, no, don't go. I didn't want the moment to end. It starts to speed up, so I'm now jogging and then running, and it curves to the right and starts to head higher and higher and faster

and faster. I ran to the edge to where I could as far as I could go because there's terraced houses. And I watched this thing rise up into the distance until it's so high up in the atmosphere and it just disappears out of sight within maybe six to ten seconds at most. So this was the very first night. Right the second night, i'd skip out because I'll be here nights explaining everything. But the second night, I was pacing the house. I wanted my girlfriend to by the way. I tried to stay

up to tell my girlfriend what had happened. And I was a wreck. I was I didn't realize at the time. I was in complete shock, and I just couldn't stumble through the words. I literally broke down because I was in such shock from what had just happened. I couldn't process it.

So the next night I asked her to stay up with me. She didn't, and I'm pacing back and forward, backguarden front garden, back guarden, front garden, and the thing comes back from a different location, roughly the same height, and it just glides along the rooftop rooftops of the neighbors' houses. And I consider running in to come and get her, or try calling her, or am I going to take a video? Well, I wanted her to see it. I didn't care about no damn video, so I

tried calling her and I'm watching it. It's literally just gliding along as people who are asleep, but roughly the same time, about twenty parts four in the morning this time, and it turns on a right angle left turn, so now it's heading for my right, across to my left, and then it glides up into the same point in the sky. Third night, it comes back again. This time I've got her to wake up early, and I'm pacing around she's making coffee, and then all of a sudden, it

comes from back here. It comes straight down and stops. I call her out. She looks at it, Oh wow, and then the thing hangs for about ten seconds before it just zooms up, so it made like a a V pattern. I never saw that one again. A few nights later, I'm driving down the road in gale force winds and there's a red ball of light hanging in the sky. It catches my attention. I know there's nothing back there but high tension power lines and a train track, so I

pulled the car over. I'm absolutely wanting to get a picture this time, so I get out of the car. I reach in to get my phone while keeping my eye on it, and it just out. You know, it was after that that things started to get pretty pretty negative. I say negative. That's not that's not a clever way to put it. The way that I described the feeling of love from when I was under it the first night, it didn't come. It didn't feel like it came from within within

me naturally. It felt as if that feeling was projected upon me, because there was no logical reason for me to feel that sense of overwhelming love. It almost felt like an angelic experience. It was alien angelic, it was magical. It was shocking all at once. As you know, there's no way to make sense of it. Your brain just goes into meltdown because you don't know, there's nothing to relate to this. It's just so unique.

So that feeling of love. Me and my girlfriend are at the back maybe two weeks after these first experiences, nighttime with having a common station, and all of a sudden, that feeling just dropped on us. But it was not love. It was negative. It was terrifying. It felt like we were being watched, but in a really just basically felt filled with terror. Of course we both stop. Hairs on the back of my neck went up, this time with fear. But again, why this came from nowhere?

Right, They just came from nowhere? Silence fell, and then these huge, heavy footsteps right in front of us where we're facing there. We have fence panels with huge gaps in between the fencing so you can see straight through. There's lights in the back so you can see straight through. These footsteps sounded like a damn dinosaur was walking back there a pound left and right left, and right, and she got so scared she ran in the house slammed

the door, saying, I'm sorry, babe, can't. I'm sat there, terrified, frozen to my chair. And it made me mad because it felt like a test. It felt like it almost whatever this was, it was as if it was trying to test my resolve. So I got mad. My reaction was to get angry, gripped my teeth, and get prepared for whatever was going to happen. And as soon as I got mad, the feeling lifted, the normal background sounds came back, and everything became normal

again. I sat there for another minute, went over, looked over the fence. There's nothing there. But these footsteps came right in front of me where I should have been able to see what was making the sound, and there was nothing there. Mine. After that, me and my son, he moves in. He's fourteen. We go for a walk in the woods. It's one o'clock in the afternoon, so broad daylight. And as we're walking towards those woods to go into the tree line, that same feeling,

that same terror suddenly out of nowhere's with mid conversation, just drops. I stopped, he says, Dad, do you feel that he's fourteen years old, he's just moved in with me. The first thing that happens is this, I thought, oh, excuse me, my friends, well, shit, he feels it too. And then that feeling of being watched had a direction and it was drilling into the back of my head from up there.

So I turned round automatically and look up to see what was a dark metallics cylinder, that half of it just zoomed behind a big puffy white cloud. I'm not taking my eyes off it, thinking hot air, balloon, jet, whatever, you're thinking of every possible thing that it could be. But I clearly saw the back end. It was cigar shape or cylinder at least, just jet jet behind it. I said, did you just see that, Corbyn? He said, yeah, Dad, you see it too.

What did you see? He said? It was like a cylinder, like a can. Next thing I remember is saying we've got to get out of here. We don't remember the walk on now. It was that next day. It stayed out at night and I'm in the living room. I'm in the house by myself with my six week old baby boy. At the time, he's asleep on the sofa, he wakes up crying. As I stand up to pick him up, I notice movement out the corner of my right eye and I look over and in my doorway between my kitchen and living room

is maybe four foot two. Halfway up the doorframe a shadow figure with an oversized head. I didn't notice anything beyond the waistline because I didn't have time to look up and down. And this thing is moving like as if it's looking My direction. Makes me jump out of my skin. And the thing just glides fast across the living room. No bumping up and down, no walking motion, just glides fast. Scared me out of my wits, made my heart skip a beat. I physically jumped out of my skin. Now

I didn't tell my son about this because he stayed out there night. The next day he comes back. I'm upstairs. He runs up the stairs, going, Dad, Dad. I just was doing my hair in the living room and this shadow figure just ran across the room. So again he's just seen what I'd seen, and I hadn't spoken with him about it. After

that, he had para poltergeist. Stuff happened in this very room was his bedroom, and this door handle, he says, when he was here with a friend, started shaking up and down and the door came open and they both left the house. That was so scared. So I had two more things after that, a silver sphere in the sky and broad daylight. I

managed to film a little bit of it on camera three video clips. I was at work, and at the time I worked in a job where the kind of people I was around, you really don't want to be saying, oh, look at this ufo and sky. So I just said nothing and filmed it. And it was a dark metallic sphere. Wasn't It was literally a sphere. The thing just approach my position, so I noticed it at quite a long far distance, so I got the phone out and started filming.

It came up and stopped, and it just kept moving left and stopping. It was quite a windy day. Wasn't affected by that. There was no noise from it. Eventually it took about ten thirteen minutes to move out of sight over the tree line and the final thing, so I wanted to wrapping it all up. The final thing, I was driving late at night by myself, very isolated road the A forty seven. The piece were here and I noticed to my right what I thought was a plane crashing because there

were some orange lights. Just came down real fast and then kind of glided up and started heading my way, and so I'm double taking, thinking is that looking for flashy airplane lights or something. As it approached I realized that it's coming to intercept perfectly my position. I had nowhere to pull over, and eventually I realized there were just three balls of orange and the light that was side by side horizontally. They passed so close to me that if I'd

stood on the roof of the vehicle, I could have touched them. There were just three balls of typically beach ball size orange lights they passed over. I saw them go over the hedging. And that was in twenty eighteen. So the whole thing that we went through lasted about three and a half years, and of course it's taken me years of trying to come to terms with

it. I've never done meditation. I've always wanted to. I've never like to say, I've never looked for any experience like this, but it's left me with, of course, more questions and answers frustrating as anything that I've ever experienced before. I want to know more I've come to terms with the fact that I probably will never know anything. But yeah, it's just good to be able to shed it. Thanks DJ, thank you, thank you for sharing. It's an honor to have you here. Oh yeah, Deb,

he's already going to be on the Experiencer panel. We've already worked that out. We're thinking we're going to have I think Linda Thompson from Twitter we're gonna have. So we've got a couple of people, David, John Lanier. But yeah, but it's a target of opportunity that my error led to Max being on. And you guys, because Nathan's heard the story third person but James hasn't, So would you like to comment? James, Yeah, I mean I think you have kind of the right idea about it is.

You know, you want to know the truth, but you have an idea or come to grips with that. You know, you might you might not get all the answers. I think that's a healthy place to be. You know. As far as meditation and stuff, I that's something you're gonna have to experiment with, right. Is it gonna make more of these experiences happen positive or negative? You know? The only way you're gonna know is to actually do it and find out. You know, personally, you know,

I'm in a similar situation where it was baptism by fire. But my nature is just to go directly at it. I don't know if that's advisable, but you know, engaging the phenomenon it is kind of my thing. So I'm just going straight forward. It sounds kind of like you probably have a similar attitude where you want answers because you know things like that are gonna happen to you, and uh, most people, I don't know. I don't think that's something you can just put behind you and move on with life.

Maybe maybe some people can, maybe that's wiser, but you know, I can understand seriously just wanting to pursue it. I mean, that's what I've done. Did you feel that it was like the same phenomena or did you have, like what was your instinct that it was the same or possibly different phenomenon like the first experience when I opened the door for everything else that followed

exactly. That was my question, is that I that's the thing that tests your sanity, right, you have to have a strong mind, and I'm just extremely lucky that I had. By the way, I forgot to mention it wasn't just our neighbor's daughter they've move now, and my daughter and my son, and my the old friend and me. It was also a gentleman

that lives local to hear it posted into a group chat. He'd taken photographs of these spheres of white light just a few meters away from our house in twenty eight and he had posted pictures of them with a blurb where it said he was walking his dog at twenty past midnight and he'd seen these three balls of light making dancing around making formations. A third one joined in, sorry, yeah, two balls of like a third one joined in and then they

shot straight up incredibly fast. His question was, has anybody got a reasonable explanation as to what these says are? Well, there's no reasonabley explation. And then thirdly, I was lucky enough to have Mufund's director in the UK call me Jack Turnbull. He told me about a few things which struck a

chord. And it turns out that another gentleman that was driving up the road here on the very same road that we live in twenty eighteen again, had filmed on his dash cam footage of two spheres of white light passing from this site over to the other side of the road. So it seems that it was a transient thing that happened in this area for a couple of years for

whatever reason. But to answer your question specifically, at the time, that's what made me really, that's what really made me almost insane, is I thought, I've just had this UFO experience, whatever that is. Now I'm seeing ghosts, what like, what the hell's going on? At the time, my gut instinct was just a knee jerk reaction of this is paranormal. I'm seeing I've never seen something that was crazy. Man, I don't know what to make of it, James. And that's the thing, why are

so many people having a UFO experience? And then you know shadow figures, polar guist what we call paranormal. You say you had it the other way around, and that's fascinating. So were you meditating back then? No, I mean, as it's for me, it started around really young, so there's no concept of meditation. And again, those the original entities that I saw, I don't know to this day if they were associated with the UFO phenomenon or not. I could speculate that they were, but I really don't

know. There was a telepathic thing for certain, and again that's what we were talking about before. Is that a technological or kind of metaphysical technology? I don't know, And you know, I'm in the same boat as you where, you know, I don't have all these answers I wish I did, And that's kind of partially what keeps me going is, you know, maybe I'll gain some insight into you know, not only what this is,

but why did this happen to me? And is there something that in light of these experiences I can contribute to, you know, the bigger picture of what's going on. Are other people having these experiences or people who are just curious about it? Or is there something a bigger role that I don't even understand yet. There's a lot to unpack here. But one thing I want to ask Max. Are you in Peterborough near like fifty miles from Berryston Edmunds.

Yeah? Yeah, cool? All right, So when I come to Milden Hall, I'm gonna call you in June, so I gotta spend like a week at Milden Hall, So definitely want to meet up with some of my friends from UFO Twitter during that. Sure, I'd love to do that, but let's go round. Let's go around the horn. Nathan, do you have any final comments because we're gonna have Max back on for the experience

her round table. Actually, James is doing Contact Week coming up like really soon, so I, Nathan and I will have to see if we can put it together in a short period of time. So he and I will and Nakashi Chris will will pow wow and see if we could put something together.

But do you have anything that you want to as we go around the room, Nathan, Yeah, I just wanted to say thank you to James for one coming on our show, but two, James, I think you're one of the hardest working guys in UFO Twitter, and I'm continually impressed by all that you do and the content that you put out. I know how much it takes to do this kind of thing, and you're doing two shows and you have a cee if I have a Facebook group that I know you've

been very active with, and it takes a lot. And I wanted just you to know that it means a lot to me what you do and I personally like I probably wouldn't be doing this if I didn't have kind of the encouragement that you've offered, as well as the kind of the path that you've you've laid out for folks like me and DJ to kind of do this type of thing. So I just I really wanted to say thank you more than anything, and wanted to encourage you to continue to do whatever is on your

heart to do. But also, and I know you probably hear this from all plant kinds of people, you know, make sure you take care of yourself at the same time, you know, Yeah, so you gotta have those rest days. Man, Yeah, I couldn't. I couldn't have said

that any better. I appreciate that, and I'm honored by that. And you know, I think that it's just, you know, I partially feel a responsibility and and and kind of again, maybe it's just something I'm telling myself, but this is, uh, you know, my participation is my way of paying the forward, and you know, I think it's you know, if you know, partially my dharma. If I can use that kind

of terminology, I think it's it's important. And you know, if there's you know, anything I can do to participate in the in the greater picture of something that I had experience with. You know, I'm happy to do it. You know, I feel obligated in a sense to you know, and I hope I can help. That's that's all you are definitely absolutely yeah,

sure. I mean you guys are are already doing great things. So I mean just I mean I probably came onto the scene more publicly just a tiny bit before you, but there's going to be the same effect where you're paving the road for others as well. Yeah, we just like to create a safe space and open space, and like we just I think we just saw Max do that and that if he felt comfortable to tell his story,

then mission accomplished. And when you come on our show, we want you to feel like you're the most important person in the room and that how much we value you being here. I think Nathan just stated it even better than I can. But but yeah, that's basically you got it. Mission accomplished. And I'm super excited because next month I'm gonna see Nathan in North Carolina.

January, I'm going home to New York. I'm gonna see James either for something at the diner, which is probably for him is gonna be like bacon egg whites, maybe not even toast. And then or maybe yoga practice down at at Prana Yoga Prana moon in peak skill. And then in June, I get to go back to my favorite place on Earth other than here, United Kingdom, go to RM Milden Hall and then uh, and then maybe I'll see my homie Max. So for a chippy and a beer.

Who knows? All right? Man, Okay, what's that brother, We're gonna have a workout together, you work out, let's do it, man, Yeah, James, Man, I'll tell you what, man, this daye is fit. Man. We'll go get some all right. Let's bring Akashi Chris on if we can, so we can say goodbye to the whole. Hey, there's associate producer Nakashi Chris. Everyone do a little bit of Count Dracula. Thank you, Yeah, and one of your story Max, thank you so much. It's amazing and I's awesome, Nathan. Did I

do a good description of it at least? Oh? Yeah? No? I actually, well, I had even heard his story on spaces before. I didn't know that i'd heard it before, but it's like I heard it for the first time. It's just very powerful, and Max, I really

appreciate you sharing that with us. Thank you. Just like James said, like the work that you guys are doing is important because what I realized is it helps people that are going through the same to realize that they're not alone, because we always feel like we're alone when we go through things like this. Traumatizing things can be traumatizing. It can be beautiful to recognize that,

but we as human beings tend to feel like we're all alone. You know, we're not, and so it's important to be able to share these things. And I I just want to help other people as well. We will. We want to make sure that nobody, everybody has a safe space to tell their story. And nobody has to prove shit to nobody. That's that's the bottom line. You don't have to prove a damn thing to anybody on this planet. So all right, man, thank you all for being on

Calling All beings. If you're on the YouTube, like subscribe. I think we got to five twenty five today, We're hot. Twenty six is really me tomorrow? Yeah, is more than we were. Really, it's kind of it's kind of excess, you know, it's like too much cheese on a pizza. Whatever. Thank you so much for joining us. It's an honor. So for Akashi, Chris, for Nathan, for Max McKay from the UK, and for James, I and Dolly engage in the phenomenon.

Put hands together and thank you. Thank you everybody. Peace out, one love and as I always say, we'll see you down the road. We always wonder what's up around the That's right, peace y'all. Thank you,