DD4withNathan,JamesFinal

Hello. This is Deb hosted Deb's data dojo and researcher for Calling Old Beings. This podcast is part of the Calling Old Beings channel. I'm very grateful that you're here today to listen as I speak to our special guest. The first guest today is Nathan, who has been a co host with me. Nathan is co host of Collinigal Beings and Luminal Frames, a podcast with XO Academian. Hey, Nathan, how are you great deal? Thanks for having me on. Looking forward to chatting with you. I'm very excited to see

your channel and podcast grow. You've You've done an excellent job, a very strong start. So really looking forward to this chat tonight. I think the secret sauce is this is just a fascinating thing to talk about, isn't it? Oh man, no shortage of cool things? I know, right, there's so much to talk about. Okay, So would you like to know who we have as our main guest today? Absolutely? Okay, we have a very special guest and someone I consider it to be a friend. We

have mister James. I am Dollie. Nice. Welcome James. Okay, Hey guys, thanks for having me. Hi there so I'm gonna tell everyone about who you are. James. James works to educate the public on his two YouTube channels, engaging the phenomenon and meta perspective. He works with concepts of high strangeness see five, celepathy, meditation, and so much more. Welcome James, I'm glad to be here. Thank you so much for having

me on. Okay, so can can you start at the beginning for us and tell us a little bit about what brought you into working on high strangeness see five, all those fun topics, sry. I can give you the long of the start, which one you want to find long? Yeah, the whole show. Well here, I'll start off short and you leave me from there. I starting starting from a very young age. I had experiences

that fall within the realm of high stranges. So you know, you're talking about interaction with entities, out of body experiences, lucid dreaming and things of that nature, and they always stood out to me. They were always very vivid, they were always intriguing to me, and they happened frequently enough where I didn't I didn't see it as like a one off. So because that happened at a very early age, from a young age. A lot of

these things I just took as part of life. And with that being said, I you know, even as a young kid, I would read books and you know, all different topics from UFOs to you know, even meditation

and different things like that at but more so on the UFO side. One in around two thousand and seven, that's I'm trying to think, I'll be I'm twenty years old at two thousand and seven, So right when I'm around twenty years old, I had a series of close encounters that were very profound and uh they changed my life and they were transformed of in a way where

I can no longer like be interested in this stuff. It was at that point I had I felt the need to get like directly involved right with engaging the phenomenon, so to speak. So that that led me on a journey to you know, discovering CE five and getting very directly involved with the C five movement and setting up some of the first C five networks on the Internet, and getting involved with CE five field work and actually being proactive and doing

C five contact work out on the field. Because prior to that, as far as I know, all the experiences that had happened to me were passive or involuntary, meaning they just kind of happened to me. I guess you could say, by chance, if there is such a thing. But when I had heard about CE five it, I was thinking, like, I didn't know how to I didn't think of that before. Why didn't I think to kind of like initiate that by myself? So finding that was profound for

me. And may I ask it, Did it feel like you've got some control of something that was a little bit uncontrollable with it in a sense? Yes, in a sense, Yes, I say in a sense, because that's kind of like the very beginning of my journey, in the sense of that becoming a thing, because you know, C five and even being able to work with that framework to borrow from liminal frames, you know, coupled

with very intensive meditation practice and study. Uh, I think gave me you know, all that together and working diligently at that is overall I think what gave me more of that sense of maneuverability, you know. So I would say it's that was the beginning of it. Yeah, Now would you be comfortable telling us what those entities looked like at all? I'm just curious.

I don't want to push if you don't want to tell us. Yeah, these So if you're talking about the ones early on, they were almost transparent. You know, people talk about shadow people. This I guess could fit into that category, but there were something luminous about it, and at that point I was, you know, as a kid, I was terrified. And honestly, the real part about that that was most shocking to me wasn't

even seeing it it or them. It was when I heard the voices in my mind or my body, I guess you could say, because there's more. It's more than just like listening. It's more than hearing. I felt it in my body too, but so both of those together. But really, again, what really shook me, I guess you could say was was actually hearing the voice to it. So both were jarring. But again, if I were to describe the aesthetic, it was almost like shadow type that

had a luminous, you know, luminosity to it. But then again I saw it literally morph into an orb So that's what those entities actually look like. I think we could probably do at least two hours just talking about light beings and orbs and how they seem to be involved with this phenomenon, Nathan

Y. Yeah, interesting ideas about what that might mean. Well, I was also going to say that, you know, I can't, I can't one hundred percent day that this entity and interaction is is one certainly directly associated with the UFO phenomenon. You know, in retrospect, I see correlations, but at that time, in that age, I wasn't thinking, you know, UFOs, that's that's not for that time. Yeah, it's interesting, James. When I became interested in this, it was long after I had

interest in other paranormal things. You know, when I was younger, I was interested in spirits and you know, New Age concepts, and I didn't think I'd get pulled into this, but I got pulled. So yeah, So I do think ultimately all these things are connected. Yeah. I think that there's definitely at least some kind of intersection to this or point of convergence as we can now you know, shout out to exo academian there. Definitely,

So, I mean, what are the odds? Right, there's there's people that don't experience anything at all, right, like just nothing as far as they can consciously recall and admit maybe some people you know, have passing things and they just don't pay much attention and move on from there. But you know, what are the odds that, you know, one person that has a UFO encounter also happens to have several other types of encounters, whether

it's a ghost thing or precognition. And the funny thing is is that it seems if you have one of these experiences, it's more likely that you're going to have the others. You know, the Free Study or you know now it's the Conscious Contact Research Institute c CRI with Ray Hernandez did a bunch of research and you know that had some PhDs and they took in data from I

think at least four thousand people and that's that's what the information showed. Well, one thing I definitely would like is for us to figure out what the basic framework is for consciousness, like what is the science behind that. We've had some back and forth discussions about could it be evolution, Could we just have evolved to the point where we're perceiving things that were already there is? Is it just a basic building block that we're unlocking from our DNA somehow?

So, Yeah, there's a lot a lot to unpack with that. So I wanted to ask about the C five in particular. I know a lot of people don't understand what C five is, and there's some stigma because of some people that are associated with C five. So I thought, maybe you could tackle that a little bit and explain it a little bit to the people who are new to the concept. Sure, which which part should I tackle

first? The stigma or or the background of what C five is. Probably start with what C five is. Yeah, let's do that first, Okay, So well, I can actually weave them together a bit. So you know, C five is close encounters of the fifth kind, which is generally a human initiated contact event. So I actually did a video today that describes

the different categories and the degrees of C five. So you know, generally, when we're talking about C five, we're talking about a person or a group of people that are intentionally going out to have a close encounter with UFO intelligence. And doctor Greer would again, doctor Greer founded the term CE five and with that the CE five protocols. So doctor Stephen Greer founded these protocols.

He said he discovered them with UFO Intelligence in the mid nineteen seventies, but then he officially founded C set and the C five initiative in about nineteen ninety nineteen ninety one, and you know, he kind of set down the groundwork of how he defined CE five. But really, if you look at CE five close encounters of the fifth kind in a meta picture, so a larger kind of aspect of it or framework would be contact. It's just intentional

contact. So when when doctor Greer created the CE five protocols, it was his methodology specifically of how to do a CE five and his protocol was basically that you do some kind of meditation, You get into a deep calm, meditative state, and you do what he calls coherent thoughts sequencing, and that's

in his view. You know, you're using remote viewing actually, and you're trying to use your inner vision to see a UFO or UFO occupant or any kind of UFO intelligence and and vector them in visually in your mind's eye to the contact site and to your exact location. So that is as CE five.

And the big stigma behind C five many of you will know, is that it's it's doctor Stephen Greer. Doctor Stephen Greer is kind of an important name in in ufology and in a lot of regards actually disclosure and contact.

But he rubs a lot of people the wrong way. He's had his fair share of mishaps, and often that reflects on CE five because he he's seeing as the founder of CE five, even though in the past, you know, especially in the seventies, there were several different people that were doing exactly well we would define a CE five, although they didn't use what doctor Stephen

Greer would call the CE five protocols. So there's a distinction there that you know, you know, CE five itself is not bound to the CE five protocols. The CE five protocols are one way to achieve C five. You know, in the nineteen seventies, nineteen seventy four, there was a group in Lima, Peru in South America with six Dopaswell's and his friends and family,

and they were doing just about the same thing. They were getting into deeper states of concentration and using automatic writing, and they would get communications and use this automatic writing and be told to go out to a certain location at

a certain time and date and mission. Rama and Sixto Pazwalls called this programmed sightings, and they had very high success levels, even with local media going to the sites with them and recording these strange objects that would appear at the time and date and location that these program sightings, which are CE five's by definition, even though they're not using the C five protocols. And again we

have Dorothy ease At. You know, she was sitting at home doing her meditation one day and she heard a communication she went outside and saw I craft And you know that there's a whole story to Dorothy ease At as well.

So I have always wondered if that's how she did it, if she was because I think of it, honestly, I have that scientific minded concept that it might be like we make ourselves at antenna, and I've always wondered if that somehow she was using what scientists now call the biofield and omitting it. But it does seem like you have connected it to remote viewing in a way that I haven't thought of before. And I appreciate that because that was going

to be a question later well. Because actually, if you look at doctor Stephen Greer's materials for like the c SETI Working Group Manual, which again I covered a video today talking about the different degrees of C five and the different levels. But doctor Stephen Greer actually calls his Coherent Thoughts sequencing, which is CTS for short, which is actually the main gist of the protocol because the rest of it, you know, the meditation is not necessarily uh, the

protocol itself. That's just priming for for using the protocol and for having field interactions with you UFO intelligence. But he actually calls coherent thoughts sequencing r V two like remote viewing level two, because you're not only having a remote view, but you're then using your consciousness and awareness to vector that intelligence in so you're actually kind of going a step beyond. So again, if you look in Stephen Grier's old training materials, it says r V two. That's fascinating.

Yeah, So I mean, where do I begin here? I want to begin with consciousness. Yeah, super easy, easy topic there. But the you know, James, we've kind of talked a little bit about this before, but I want to get your take on on your interpretation of what's going on with consciousness sort of generally. And I know that, I mean at least for me. I'll see for myself, my understanding of this is very much in process, so I don't feel like I've got you know,

a firm, real firm sense of what's happening here. However, I am kind of trending and leaning toward consciousness being you know, sort of both non local but also really the bedrock of reality itself. And I just wonder how you, you know, through the journey that you've been on, interpret not only I guess, like the protocols, because when I think of a protocol, I think of that from the standpoint of something that is very like like

like laboratory experiment. Right, It's like you know, you're you're doing a certain sequence of things to kind of have a maybe not a perfectly predictable, but a fairly predictable result. That's the whole point of having a protocol is you want to try to, you know, achieve a similar kind of outcome.

So you have that kind of like materialist view of engagement. And I wonder how you think of that in light of what may very well be something that's you know, kind of non material at all, you know, and that is consciousness. So has your understanding or relationship to consciousness, has that changed over time or you know, how are you thinking about it now? I don't know how. I mean, I guess I am hopefully in a

constant low of change, hopefully getting things a little bit better. But yeah, consciousness and and well and really the protocol too, and you mentioned the material and the immaterial or non material, so you know, actually the protocol itself, say see five protocols or contact modalities, but specifically with the CE five protocol actually in the beginning was very much a research and development thing.

Uh. You know, even in the early years if we're talking about c set, they they said they were surprised at the success they were getting, how fast they were getting it. So, you know, that's one thing I think consciousness. You know, there's a there's a superb book by Lynn McTaggart called The Field, and you know, talks about consciousness as the field

maybe as an all enveloping you know field MH. So you know, we we use terms like material and non material given our current understanding, you know, as if there's certain things that we we can't really measure, right and at what what what what? At what point does it become material? Just if if we did discover a way to measure consciousness right in some kind of unit, you know what, it then become material that I'm just posing that

kind of as an open question. But I I do think that UFO intelligence is able to two technologically or or maybe in some other way. I'm using technology from a way I can perceive it. But the UFO phenomenon scene seems to be able to be able to interact with with whatever consciousness is, right,

I mean, on every level that we can perceive it. So you know, you have things like the telepathy and you know, if you've seen that movie The Arrival, the Newer One right with Amy Adams, and they're interacting with these beings, I mean the way that they are, you know, interacting even through synchronicity and time and precognition. You know what does that say about consciousness? You know, it's just to me, it's just makes me ask more questions. So I think, yeah, yeah, I just

have more questions. So this is why I want to bring up a great place for those questions. That I appreciate the Society for Scientific Exploration because they actually have peer reviewed papers in their journal on consciousness and the science behind it. And I actually have one of their channel things right here, so we could look at some of the titles that they have together. So look, they got ESP practitioners astrology as a subject of science remote viewing John Alexander's on

here. The reason I initially had heard about them was because put off, how put off it actually presented to them, And I didn't connect this until later of who they were. Oh, this is one of my favorites. The human biofield, and this is where I feel my heart is related to consciousness. I suspect that there's something there, so let me go ahead and head out of that. So for those who are not aware, what was

formerly known as the aura is now basically called the biofield. It connects in some way to what we also called she or chakras or even if you want to take a religious bend, it seems to be the spirit. And they're studying it in a scientific way. They're actually taking measurements, they're using some

systems. Other scientists are using some systems to look at photons emitted from people, and the people studying the biofields claim that our biofield, which you know, of course if you research, we really do have sort of a radiation from our bodies some people call it thermal radiation can go out about six feet and so I've been experimenting with all of that. I find that fascinating.

And I you know, when they research people who meditate, for instance, they show the changes that are happening in their brains and they can change like the energy changes are visible. So what do you guys, just what are your thoughts about that? I think it's cool. Yeah, for sure, I think it's cool. So actually, now this brings me to some things, like I think I'll say, you know, in chigung, it depends what chigong teacher you speak to, because some are more conservative than others.

But somebody who's like a Chigung's cheegung guy who's really about it and is not going to kind of dumb down what they actually teach. You know, they'll tell you that practicing chigong will increase your intuition and even psychic energy. So in Eastern traditions they very much correlate you know, the bio field and energetics with psychic phenomenon and psychic powers, you know, in in in all the traditions right just about. And you know, chigung i can tell you from

personal experience. You know, when I was doing it, I used to do a lot more like chiegung, let's say, because I did martial arts back many years ago. And I would do like a regular workout, and then I would do something that was kind of a mixture of yoga and chigung

and I would do like C five sequences during that that practice. And you know, a lot of times, you know, either when I let let got out of the gym, or when I was driving home, or when I drove home and step out of the car, there was you know, a C five event taking place. So they and actually I know certain people who branched off from Mission Rama. They do events in Mount Shasta every year and one of the main things that they do during the day is chiegung.

So they teach and practice chigung as a way to be able to help facilitate contact and ce fives. So I think that those practices are very practical and that there is a correlation between you know, what I would call priming the antenna not only for contact but for other experiences. I had actually written a short piece I shared with one of my colleagues privately, UH about you know, yoga and chigung and actually utilizing that for contact and again priming the antenna.

And I will say, although I see the correlation there and I think that they are connected, I'll also say, and you know there's things like,

you know, chigung also has non local aspects. So even though we think about you know, channeling chi through our body and then using that for you know, enhancing your own psychic potentials or whatever it may be, you know, there's also you know, chigung healing at a distance where they're you know, they're people ten thousand feet away receive a chigung healing and there's some kind of effect, and you know, a Claude Swanson wrote some like heavy

duty, like textbook style books on any kind of energy work you can think of, and all that stuff is in his his volumes. I forget the the names of these volumes, but Claude Swanson, he's got a few interviews on YouTube. He might have presented at s S. And again I think that you know, you're kind of when you're talking about that kind of stuff, you're going in the right direction. I do think that there's something even

more fundamental to consciousness. Even though that's a pathway for for helping to better utilize consciousness, just like you know, meditation might be. You know, you can say meditation is one way, you know, chigung tai chi yoga and those things are kind of they're very similar, but they're more physical. So I think those are all different pathways that are. You know, you're you're, like we said, priming the antenna for all kinds of you know,

contact modalities. But I just I just feel like, honestly, we're it's all gonna end up being connected. I think we're going to find out things like quantum entanglement aren't part of it. You know, the quantum wave theory might be part of it. You know, it's funny how the quantum theories are like sound a little bit more woo than anything, but they actually

are based on science theoretical at this point, which most science is. But anyway, so I guess I feel like when we're talking about you know, material versus non material, maybe that non material is actually like you said, waves, you know that we're just not seeing, we're not able to precede them, but they are physical waves that exist and it's connecting us to something

far far away. Or maybe they're not that far away who knows, right, and maybe yeah, they be the way in which we conceive of it from you know, you mentioned earlier, James, the word measurement from from from these sort of qualitative or quantitative approaches, like you know, looking at things like distance or time or mass. You know, these are things that we have applied to the world around us, but it's not perhaps those things

aren't fundamental. You know that, you know if you're familiar and I know I shared this with you recently, Deb and I'm actually working my way through it now, so it's still new to me. But the work of Bernardo castrob who's talked about who talks about analytic idealism, which essentially says that I can kind of break down the premise of it, but that's the our experience

of the world isn't really the world itself. And of course Donald Hoffman, I know you guys are familiar with him and kind of the the way that he explains that the way that you that we all kind of interact with the world is just is similar to the way that we interact with icons on our

desktop. So essentially, you know, the Castrip used the analogy of like you're a pilot and a cockpit, and you have in front of you this dashboard of dials that represent what's happening out in the air around the aircraft, you know, so you can you can literally fly the airplane just by looking at those dials. They they aren't the actual air around you, but they allow you to fly the aircraft, and you can you can fly by instrumentation

alone. So he's using that analogy to say that that's exactly what our lived experiences we are. We are operating in reality through the set of dials. We're not experiencing reality itself. We're experiencing it through the through these intermediary sort of dials and measurements. So that kind of hints that there being something uh at the root of it, or stranger than than that. You know that

we just aren't, we aren't primed to perceive. But but perhaps you know, things like meditation, these other practices allow us to, I guess better tap into that because essentially kind of what you're doing, think about it, and James, you're you know, obviously will more versus this than I am.

But by practicing meditation, you are, in a way trying to separate yourself from the dials of perception that you normally operate in, and so that may be the key kind of to tap into what's at least get closer to what that base reality might might be. Can I just say, I think that that's a great way of maybe describing simulation theory, you know, That's that's what I think that's about. Ultimately, Yeah, it could be.

It could be all right, because it could be that you're yeah, I mean, from the standpoint of the the dials you know, are just sort of given to us by the simulators, right. But the other way to look at it is that we are kind of co creating it like ourselves. So that matter and experience as we know it, you know, which experience of anything is something that really is derivative of consciousness, not the other way

around. Right. So we're still struggling by in researching consciousness to try to figure out how it emerges through the material phenomena in the brain, and we really can't figure that out, and so we're hitting a dead end there. And maybe it's because that's not actually how it works. The brain may be an epiphenomenon of mind, so it may flow the other direction. Yeah, And I don't know. I don't know if it was John Wheeler or so

that somebody had the terminology the participatory universe. I don't want to call me for some reason, I'm thinking John Wheeler might not be you know, who was at Princeton who had the pairs lab, you know, researching the random number of generators and our influence on basically the material through mind and if your lack of a better term, but what you're talking about with you know, the perception of reality actually in Buddhist practice, you know, vipasana ah is

uh they call it insight practice and insight training or or it's one of the pillars called, you know, wisdom training. And you know, part of that is you're you're literally destructing reality. And it's not something that you're destructing

or deconstructing, it's it's your observation of it. That's that's the result of what happens when when you're doing the practice as an almost like an aftermath is the deconstruction of reality by your observation, you know, getting you know, just literally observing reality on finer and finer and finer and finer levels until you gain insight into you know, even things that you're talking about. Well,

and I want to pull this back a little bit to science. There are some researchers that are studying how we turn our genes on and off with our experiences, with our encounters in reality. So there is again another physical scientific indicator of the same sort of idea, right that basically, you know, certain things you eat will activate some things, and certain things you experience may you know, shut off some genes. James is the one who taught me

that you should eat fish oil. Yeah, I mean, you know there's there's there's actual uh you knowlience behind you know, consuming fish oil will will you know, turn on and off different gene expressions, you know, So imagine what you know, thousands of hours of meditation practice or chigung practice you

know, might do. And again, even if you want to talk about the immaterial aspect of the you know, unmaterial uh seemingly things we can't see, like consciousness that you know, or again if we're looking at it as something that's visible or not and chi and you know, prana could have effects on our DNA and our gene expressions and turning on and off codons or whatever. Yeah, I think that's that stuff is definitely like the science of the

future, right, both consciousness and and things like that. The DNA, I think we're we're only just coming to studies like that. And it's interesting because it makes me think of what you said, Nathan. It's like, what if our consciousness is playing with the dials and the dials are our DNA? Right, So where do you think the consciousness initially comes from? And that's where it leads me to think about people who have near deethic experiences and

remote viewing experiences. They're going somewhere else, So where is that somewhere else? Where do you think that is? Guys? Where do you think this is from? Yeah? I mean I struggle with that, right, it is because it is kind of a it is a I mean, it's it's a it's a question that we may not be well equipped to answer. Right. So, you know, coming back to something that James said about about the technology, you know, it's it's possible that you know, kind of

advanced states of consciousness their manifestations in our perceived world look like technology. You know. So so what we were what we would call oh that's technology, is really just a higher degree of fidelity and control over consciousness itself that that

we aren't really quite well equipped to to to do. And it may be that, you know, maybe the bodies that we have and the material world that we occupy is kind of a I don't know, a barrier to being able to exercise that or explore that in a way that you know, would

be more meaningful. Maybe other non human intelligences are are are better at doing this or have been have been exploring these issues for a lot longer, and have you know, have have advanced their understanding to where that they the barrier between what we would call material and consciousness, Like maybe that's completely arbitrary. You know, maybe we we have literally just kind of divided these houses, but it's all the same house, you know, so it's all the same

place. I think ultimately we're still going to struggle with the fact, you know, what you're hitting at here dev is like where does it come from? What is the root? What is the source? Uh? You know, we are our minds aren't good with like really large quantities. We're not good at infinity. You know, we don't really do well with that. We don't really do well with that at all. And so you know, I definitely struggle with you know kind of what that means, uh, you

know what happened? You know, we everyone will always ask the question our in our current scientific understanding, you know, what preceded the Big Bang? You know, which is our current you know, leading hypothesis to the universe. But you know, we are kind of stepping over that threshold. Right.

This gets too, I think, to the notion of ideas and how ideas really push our interpretations of what's going on and expand our awareness in ways that that are it's kind of unpredictable, but they also fashion the world that

we occupy, you know. So you know, James, your experiences that you've had throughout your life, I would probably say it's a safe bet that you've you've looked at them over the course of your life with different perspective, Like as you have grown and gained no experience, you've gone back to those prior experiences and go, Okay, maybe it's maybe it's something totally different.

And and what I wonder is maybe that that's the point, right, So maybe it starts out for everyone as like kind of on a relatable floor right to some degree, And that's not not true for everyone's experience. But we we we start with an experience that we're that we have a correlate too, and then as we as we change that that the correlates changed as well, And maybe that's part of the process. Like it's it's supposed to change.

It's supposed to not be a static interpretation of what's going on. I feel like it. The experiences that I have had are almost like guiding post to help me broaden the discussion with other people. Like some of the things that I have had happen all through my life, you know, probably will just help me educate other people with possibilities, almost like they were purposeful. And maybe maybe that post to the control theory could be. But it also influences

you, right, Debs. When you when you share those experiences right that are strongly felt by yourself, and then others willingly share their experiences with you, you are changed as well. Right, So it becomes this kind of catalyst for change generally. You know, it's not that those become things that

never change. And you know, it leads me to this question for you, James, what do you think of the concept of global consciousness, the shared consciousness, collective consciousness, I think that that may that I think it may be a thing. So there's a lot of ways to look at that.

Because you know, even if you're if you're having say like a UFO encounter, right, there's especially with C five or other types of very close encounters, you there seems to be a you know, a consciousness connection between yourself and and UFO intelligence, you know, whether that's facilitated by the technology

or not. So that I mean that takes it to an even you know, broader level, right is it Is it just a collective consciousness within without you know Earth or you know, are certain levels of intelligences or all intelligences able to connect in some way in that way? You know, because again there's you know, usually if you think of like collective consciousness, it's thought

about as like the human unconscious collective. You know, what if it if it goes even broader than that, and it's you know, the vast intelligences that say are up to a certain level of intelligence go ranging to another. You know, it's I would say, I probably think of it differently now.

And again when you begin to talk about consciousness and then you get into levels of differentiation, it becomes difficult, right, because yeah, I have to say I can envisioning basically like and I've spoken to Nathan a little bit about this at some point, just like the orbs being like little nodes on

a big web of consciousness that's connected, you know. And that's why I brought up because he was talking about how you change each other, right, you change you judge's consciousness, and we talked earlier about how that could even change you genetically, and just you know, we keep hearing about the orbs. We keep hearing there all over the place. We hear about orbs that are you know, seem to be symbolic of, you know, people who

have passed away. In other words, that's like the little embodiment of their consciousness perhaps, and which makes sense in the sense that we can see that consciousness might have something to do with the energy that's inside of us, So it makes sense that it would be something like energy. But I can just sort of imagine it being, you know, like just all over the place, little nodes that we're and when you're doing C five, perhaps you're just

triggering nodes, you know what I mean? Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah, for sure. You're talking on like a Alex Gray level of art where he's like envisioning, envisioning the kind of energetic the energetics or you

know, again what we would call unmaterial or immaterial. Yeah. I mean again, if you're if if consciousness is fundamental and somehow interwoven into the fabric of everything, uh, there would be some pathway, right m h. And it's interesting because people with near death experience described like being pulled back, click off onto that pathway, you know, like through a tunnel, you know, back to somewhere, which is the place that I'm still interested in

that somewhere. And you know, you hear about other people who have basically remote view to a place where there's lots of orbs, and mediums talk about lots of orbs and these little palls of energy. So I just I really sense there's something to that. I think there's something we just don't understand it because you know, we're still trying to figure all this out. I think

there might be something to that concept. Yeah, yeah, it's I mean I love the ideas, and you know, when you're just we're just saying, maybe think about light itself. You know, how we think of light as a as a particle, a photon of light, but it's all light, you know, it's all so these orbs are there, it's like there's this there's this distinction but also connection, uh quality to them as well. You know, we we It's funny how a perception works, right when we

see things like that, we think that they are distinct. You know, we think that because they're bright and they're around spherical that they kind of only are there, right, they only occupy that one point. But you know,

that could literally be completely wrong. You know. It could be like almost like if you were to think about a sheet, right, and underneath that sheet there's you know, a child, and then there's a hole in the sheet, you know, and they're sticking their finger through the hole, like you're just going to see the finger, but there's a whole child there, you know, underneath all of that, and so maybe that is what is happening. We're just it's just that little bit that we're really perceiving.

Well. It's also interesting that, you know, during this one out of body experience I had, and it could be other out of body experiences I had as well, but this in particular one, it was actually the first time I ever heard about yoga Nindra, and I was like, oh my let me, let me actually just try this, right, And so there was some video and I watched it like two or three times and then did a kind of version of yoga Nindra, which is kind of like a form

of very RESTful yoga. But it's part of the practice is to be more aware when you're even in the sleeping state, that your consciousness is almost aware still as well. And you know, when I I didn't know what to expect or you know, honestly, I wasn't expecting anything to really happen. And as soon as I could assume right that my body fell asleep, I just remember, like you know, doing the practice, and then all of a sudden, I'm just a point of awareness, right, so like an

orb. I couldn't see myself from that point. I was looking outward from that point, but I was just a point of awareness, like literally just floating above my head, laying down and looking straight ahead of me. And I was just a point of awareness that was there for the entire time that was I was asleep, and it was it was this weird perception of reality and it was like almost like a time lapse. It was it was very you know, surreal and lucid. It was very It's it's hard to describe.

I guess, you know, it felt like I was, you know, in I guess you can say in a point of being astral or something. And these are just words I'm using to try to describe something that's almost indescribable from our current point of you know, understanding. But I was this point of awareness, just looking, and I guess you can say at that point of awareness could have been like an energetic orb if somebody else were to see it or something. M M right, And you know, I better

say it. We can tie in also the Acasta field. I better say it because Akashi Cryst will be mad if I don't mention it. And that might be where you were. You know, we don't know enough to say exactly what's going on with that other level, and that could be the very definition of the other dimensions. You know, we don't know, and I wish we did, do you know, mar James, can you tell us

more well? I mean, one thing that they say about that is like the acacak field is everywhere, right, every every the entire universe is folded within every fabric of it, like a quantum hologram. I know, you know doctor edgar Mitchell has talked about that and other people, but that you know, the conscious quantum hologram is the idea that the entirety of everything is folded within every part of itself, you know, and we're just expressions of

that. Mm hmm. Yeah. So that's that's the secret. Actually, say, if you want to know the secret to everything, I'll tell you now. The secret to the universe is love. There you go, Okay, I was I was thinking you were going to say forty two. Yeah, love and forty two for those that you know are dorky like me, I know that means okay. So I before we wrap it up, because I do want to be mindful of your time, I just want to get to, you know, the thing that is at the heart of our community.

Of course, a little bit more on the UFOs. You and I have spoken a bit about what the communication is that we're getting when we try to communicate, when we reach out with our consciousness. We see five with meditation, with becoming antennas. You know, however you want to put it, What is it that we're getting back? What is the impression we're getting back. Are we talking about like contact specifically? Yes? Or okay?

So that's very This is a very difficult thing to discuss because it's so subjective and we have all these filters and and my kind of point of view now is that we have very flawed interpretations. And I don't mean that in a negative way, but if you just think of it from a logical perspective, you know, there's some other form of intelligence that's interacting with us, and we're trying to to kind of make sense of these impressions or downloads or even

communications that we receive from an intelligence that we have no familiarity with. We have no point of reference other than that interaction itself, So that interaction of itself is our point of reference. And you know, I think that you know, we you can have all these impressions and what that impression means to you. You know, I'm not sure if that is the intended communication from what the phenomenon is trying to communicate, or just how we're interpreting it.

I mean, there there are some communications that I or impressions that I think come through very direct and strongly, but you know, I don't know how well we're wired to have, you know, this kind of like direct communication. So maybe all this contact over the years is an evolutionary process of getting

clearer and clear on some of the communications. Possibly. I mean, you think in advanced intelligence like that would just be able to directly communicate as clearly as it wanted to, and it very well may be able to do that, but you know, maybe we're not as as greatly equipped for that. Maybe that's not even the intention of the phenomenon, right, So I think that's something that we have to kind of look more into and try to understand.

I mean, because you know, during one of my contact experiences, there was a direct thing saying come outside, and as soon as I had heard that in my mind and in my body, I instantly knew the whole thing of everything that was going on in that content encounter, Right. I knew I was going to go outside and there was going to be a UFO

out there, and there was going to be this contact event. And maybe at that point I was just because it was the day after I had something akin to an NDE, and maybe because it was that close to an event like that that I was clear enough to just receive an entire download with everything, and then you know afterwards that subtly, you know, lessened a bit. So where I have impressions now, they're not as crazy direct as that

one, or is there is there something more to it? I you know, I think that this is precisely why you know C five and contact work is so important, because you know, I think we're only at the very beginning of a kind of research field and to proactive contact and communication with non human until eligence and UFOs in a coherent manner. I hope we get there.

I hope we get there in a peaceful way, because you know, we're all concerned about things that we're seeing about baiting and exploitation right now, and obviously we don't want to agitate the phenomenon, of course, so I wanted to say that, you know, just if you get a chance to see I did talk to someone who really went into a deep dive on how difficult it would be to communicate. It was to ask an alien project.

They did a great video on YouTube and where it was like breaking down all the different barriers that we would have to overcome and potential pitfalls for communication. So what you were describing kind of, you know, the impressions. I was thinking, I think we have to rely on some of our innate abilities, which is where we go a little boo, right. I was thinking all those experiences when I was younger, which by the way, involved ghosts

and going to haunted houses. I've really learned to detect where I might have some more ability, okay, which tends to be more sensory for me. So it's, you know, very much something I would feel, not something I would see. And this is something I want to talk to Priscilla about one day too. I think that you really have to rely on your own personal ability. Like, so where is your strength? Is it auditory visual for me? Yeah, like that's what I think. You're completely can I'll

tell you right now, it's like a million kinesthetic. That's that's why I made a video called Meta Contact. You know, Meta m E T T A contact because for me, you know, rather than doing the CE five protocols and remote viewing visualizing, although you can use that on the side and it's helpful for me, I just get into a state of gratitude and connectedness and that feeling of that and that feeling of connectedness and for me, that's

just contact is way more direct and I get more impressions that way. Yeah, And I'll tell you at some other time about how I use it for experiences, but it's definitely again, I know what my skill base is, so I use that. Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I love too. Like So I'm kind of laughing inside when we're talking about communication, because you know, if you've ever been in a relationship with anyone, you can point to plenty of examples where communication has happened, but understanding is not

right. So I can point to a lot of examples like that, you know, almost on a daily basis, and that just shows how hard it is, even with beings that are on a similar, you know, on a similar and very closely connected conscious level, you know. So the fact that we would want to have a communication and an understanding with a non human intelligence, I think there are there's some pretty extreme hurdles however, And you know, XO and I talked about this in episode two of Liminal Frames.

But the fact that so many of the stories that you hear about interactions with with non human intelligence, that the fact that communication is happening at all tells you something and is to me an indication of what is actually more fundamental. So there there must be something more fundamental than our our lived experience in the world on Earth that is shared across intelligence in the universe, you know, so that there must be a deeper language. In other words, Well,

and that's the entire premise of Sea five. And so you know, I'm gonna have to quote doctor Reer here because he's the one who had has repeated this so many times. Is that, you know, the ability to be aware and awake is why SEE five works. And he's basically saying, that's

the universal language, is consciousness. And again, you know, not every C five is going to happen like this, but there's some you know, contact experiences and close encounters where you know, you know, just through the interaction you see the fault of or the failures of language when you have that kind of direct connection that again is you can only it's it's very experiential. So for me to try to describe it and in language is almost you know,

defeating what it actually is. I couldn't, I could never and it can never. Yeah, I think that's what I meant. It's it based it's based on each individual's own abilities essentially, and it's it's I need to point this out. Some people get a very clear auditory message. Yeah I am. I have gotten one. Whether or not that was related to a piece, I don't know, but that has happened once. Yeah, I'll tell you just a really funny story because it's the audit, you know,

the auditory. So primarily I'm very kinesthetic, but I do you know, during C five it's almost like they're teaching you different modalities, and it's it's it's it's that's a whole other kind of thing. Is especially if you're working within a group. Uh, the UFO phenomena interacts with you in different ways and it's almost like teaching you different things. And that kind of gets into Valet's thing a little. Although Valets would not tell you to do C five

probably. But one day I was doing a CE five with my friend Dave and I heard I heard a name and I have it written down somewhere. I don't have it with me right now, but I heard a name and it was like very clear that I had this name and I heard the name in my mind. So I'm like, that's that's weird. I you know, maybe that's just my mind kind of like making not making something up. Maybe that's something that's just I was doing my meditation CE five, and that's

just something my mind, you know, regurgitated. So but I wrote it down, and after we finished the meditation everything, I told my friend David, I said, hey, this is such and such happened, and he said, oh, you know, why don't you look it up? I said, yeah, that's a good idea. So I went on Google and I looked up the name, and Okay, this could be a synchronicity, and it can be just a pure dumb coincidence or could actually be pointed to

something. And that's that. I looked up whatever this name was, and it was a name of a random comic from like the nineteen forties that I had obviously never heard of. It was not popular or well known or anything, and it was it was a comic about an extraterrestrial being. So I and again this and it was never one I've heard about after or before.

It was like some kind of random, I don't want to say, lame comic, but it was a kind of like I've never heard of it before since and and I looked it up and it was a comic about et and I was like, what, you know, I was like, you know, Epiphany, kind of like excited because what are the odds of that,

right, you know? And it was I've never heard that name before and I had never seen that comic before, so again, high strangeness, right, And it was often auditory thing, and I'm usually not or auditory person, but I received an auditory kind of impression. I went with it, and I was just like, I don't know what to make of that. And we did have you know, orbs in the sky that night. Wow.

Yeah. And I will say that, you know, in meditation, for those who are trying to explore and to get closer to this concept, I have had the weirdest experiences with meditation. I've gotten some really strange messages. I've been pulled places that I would not have imagined, you know, but you know, I couldn't I couldn't begin to say what that is or what that's about. So one day, you know, of course, I

hope we unlock all those mysteries. In the meantime, I am so glad you came, James, and I really want another time for us to sit down and figure out some things that I want to know, like light entities. We're going to have to talk about that. You know, what you think is your go ahead? Well, no, I was gonna say,

And you know, it just came to my mind. You know. The funny thing about that story I told you too, now that I'm thinking about it, is you know, part of that could be seen as you know, either the phenomenon communicated that to me or is that something I intuited about what you know, the intelligence I was interacting with, right, just like I had spoken to Eric Wargo and he's written books about time loops and and and also lucid dreaming and precognitive dreaming. And you know, I had a

really intense contact experience that involved a dream. And you know, one way I looked at it was that was the phenomenon kind of communicating with me in the dream state. But he actually I showed him the video. I said, what do you think of this since you're kind of one of the guys on the subject, and he said, it's that to me, it looks like a pre cognition dream. Actually, So how do you you know which how do you determine which one I was? And then how do you take

that apart or maybe is it possibly both somehow? And so what I mean, I think everything's going to end up being connected. And honestly, if you would put all the experiences in a room together, I wouldn't be surprised if if we had a lot of pre cod dreams happening, a lot of auditory messages happening, a lot of sensory, a lot of visual you know, and a lot of feelings of you know, connection to a different field, so on and so forth. I think I think ultimately we're going to

find out there's truth in everything that we're looking at. I think there's something that's a part of all the theories that could be correct, which is why I don't really like to discount any of them. I think there's an element to all of it. But we should be paying attention to agree. Yeah, yeah, and the you know against six Dopen as wells and Mission Rama in the eighteen seventies. We're using automatic writing today. I mean that's not in the pop culture as much, so we'd kind of say, oh,

automatic writing, that's not the same as remote viewing. But here this guy was doing automatic writing, which for if people aren't familiar with it's you're basically just scribbling until you let energy flow through you and it becomes coherent without your conscious awareness. So something is writing, maybe your unconscious collective unconscious who knows,

and it was validated by very direct UFO experiences. And then we know yogis have been trying to perfect you know, being at a different level, and they dedicate on their lives to that. So I think we'll find a lot of things really connected ultimately, and I look forward to trying to solve this mystery with you guys, because that's all what I'm all about, truth,

putting the puzzle pieces together, educating people, getting people prepared. I'll leave my questions about what you think it is for another time, James. The conversation continues right again, Thank you so much for coming. Before we sign off, let's go ahead and find out where we can reach you guys. Nathan, can you please tell us where we can reach you? Sure? Yeah, So the best way to get a hold of me is on

Twitter. I'm at a WAF soul and then if you're interested in listening to things that I say for whatever reason, you can find me on liminal Frames with XO Academian on his YouTube channel, which is XO Academian, and then on my other show, calling All Beans with You, Deb and Jay and Akasha, Chris and Kevin Flarius Kevin, where we talked to the community and really try to get to the heart of what's going on. And yeah,

I'm open to any any and all inquiries and questions. I'd love to talk about this stuff, right and James, please tell us about your multiple efforts. Yeah, yeah, So for for more UFO phenomenon related material, I have engaged in the phenomenon, which I mostly talk about, you know, UFOs and consciousness and CE five and that's on YouTube and it's on Twitter,

and it's on Spotify. And I also have Meta Perspective, which talks more about meditation and approaches to meditation and consciousness, but it also is is getting into more again meta perspective, so almost transcendental topics or how you know, beyond topics things of that nature. And that's also on YouTube and Spotify and Twitter. Excellent, and I did peek at that today just so you know. Okay, everyone, you have a good night. It was great talking

to you. I'll look forward to talking to you again. Bye. Take care. Thank you for joining me as we work on shut in lights. I'm the phenomenon. I can be reached at Study of UAP, s ufoconnector dot com, and the Calling All Beings YouTube channel. I could be reached on Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. Until next time, take care,