Yeah, I cannot get it. Yeah, ma'am. Good evening. Welcome back to calling all beings everybody. I'm your host DJ, along with the executive producer, technical director, and my everything brother from another money, Nate Thong. Greetings everybody, Happy Tuesday evening. Very excited for the show tonight. We've been dying to get Thomas on the show with us and talk about skinned Walker round. We're about to do it. That's a ah man.
He's channeling right now. Baby, he's feeling it, but before before he feels that someone else gotta feel. And that is our researcher of this show for a long, long long time, even though she got a sister from another mister up in here, and that is a study of UAPs. Debs. How are you, debs. I'm excited. I feel like my ranch ancestry is gonna come out today, Like I feel proud that it's in my blood. Maybe she was born there and we just don't know this all right.
And now, last, but not least, of course, is our another researcher, and we call her Courtney Connected. She is the cab prospect. She's got the one percent patch in the little sort of it says earth on the bottom rocker right there. What's up, Courtney, what's up y'all? I'm so excited to be here tonight. And how about Thomas Winterton. We've all seen him, you know on Skinwalker Ranch with the hat, you know, outside the building. It's so cool to be here tonight to hear
him and hear what he has to say. We watched the we watched the preview episode and his hair looks great even though he has the hat on. So I don't know. I mean, he could go either way, whereas for me, I should have a hat on right now. Obviously we all to represent, but everybody will know why real soon, all right, So this is what's going down. He is the superinependent and serial entrepreneur and the og at Skinwalker Ranch. Part of people put your hands together for Thomas winter
Time. Cannot get it, man, I'm just gonna say it. I'm not saying it. Amen excited after an intro like that, that was awesome. That's how we do it on here, and that's how we'll do it next time. You come on, hopefully like best ever. I think that's the best one I've ever gotten. Thank you very much, Thomas. I appreciate that we do sort of pride ourselves on these sorts of things. I'm making people feel welcome and having fun, entertaining but yet interesting and deep conversations
about the phenomenon. So with that, So, yeah, as we said, you are the superintendent of Skinwalker ranch and a cereal entrepreneur. And that was particularly interesting to me because I'm sort of one of these guys who goes to Whole Foods and will look at all the different cereals. You know, all they have twenty seven different types of granola. So I wanted to make sure what kind of cereal that you're producing, because I'll buy your cereal.
Oh yeah, yeah, I think I think you'd be more familiar with the term like serial killer, you know, than cereal maker. Right, so cereal is in multiple How do you guys see salt serial killer with the bowl of cereal on it and the spoon inside? I mean, yeah, I thought there's gonna be Skinwalker granola. But okay, special K, right, special K, super K protect the rights of cereal. All right, let's
let's jump right into it. Nathan, do you want to make him large on the screen or you want to stay you want to stay with this format. Oh I don't hear Nathan. Nathan's on mutemute. Sorry about that. So the show is starting tonight. Everybody who doesn't know. Season five is kicking off this evening at nine Central tent Eastern. And before we get into questions with Thomas, I thought it would be good just to kind of get us a little bit hype by doing a quick thirty second promo of the season.
So I'm gonna put that on screen the Thomas. We're going to jump right into questions. It is no longer a question of whether the phenomena is real. It is now about what we are documenting at Skinwalker Ranch. This is unlike in the experiment we've done before. Who want that? They're coming down? What is inside the mesa? It's like jelly that can't be, but it is? What is that? The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch. New episode tonight at nine part of History Strange and Unusual only on the History Channel
and watch next day on the History Channel app. That's what I'm talking about. I almost got through this today, but with all that's been going on in my life that I'm not going into right here, I didn't get to watch. But about part of it untill we saw the couple helicopter guys that we're gonna go up and do a new type of an experiment that you hadn't
done. But before we get to that portion of the phenomenon, Thomas, something I've been interesting, very interested to ask you, since I've been watching this show for about I think three seasons now and I love the show, is I'm very curious about a bigfoot activity if there is bigfoot activity either on the ranch now or earlier before you know, you had fifty cameras, because
I know they're camera shy or camera sensitive. Have you had any bigfoot activity that you're aware of, either before you were at the ranch or since? So interesting question. So the easy answer to that is no, But I
will I will add to that. It's interesting that we've had some some of the local Native Americans in the area that have told us about, you know, bigfoot stories that have happened in the I mean we're talking really close to the ranch, and we've had some individuals from the previous eras of the ranch that have reported seeing you know, big prints on the ranch. But during our time, and I don't know anything. I don't know of any story
specific to bigfoot related to the ranch, Yeah, thank you. Well, okay, so other than the prince that somebody, one of your redecessors found prints that that appeared to be a big human looking foot but oversized, I don't well, see, the thing was is they reported a big print, but they never they they didn't give a specific like whether it was a wolf or whether it was a They had just indicated that they were they were big. If I remember right, it was like it was the stride that had
caught their attention. But I don't think that they I don't remember them giving details like you know, barefoot or it just they I think they just used the term print. And if I remember the story right, this is this is going back to like season two or three. We'd had somebody on as we tried to go back through the different errors than anybody that may have information, and I just remember vaguely a story. If I remember right, the stride was like six feet apart, you know, it was large. But
I don't remember them. I don't want to add to the story. Sure, uh and and indicate that they told us more. I think they just said print and that was it was left with that. Yeah, I mean six foot stride if they saw, you know, a what And I'm I'm a kind of a junk amateur bigfoot researcher. And so there's two things that
that that we've you've covered here. One is if there is a trackway meaning more than one print and there is a five to six foot gap, that's fairly indicative of of something because I've seen people try to recreate that and they just can't step that far. The other thing is that a lot of researchers will tell people who are having a habituation thing where they'll come and slap on
someone's mobile home or even just their home. Is you put up cameras, You put up cameras and motion lights, and they go away because they will not allow themselves to be filmed and they seem to be able to see in that kind of eye r spectrum. So the fact that you guys have more cameras than probably any ranch in you know, in the West, in the Western United States, that would keep that, in my mind, would keep
them away. So but makes sense. Yeah, I'll pass on to the other cabs money Nathan Glad Sir. Yeah, So Tomas, great having you with us. You know, I'm kind of curious and usually alluded to this. The ranch has so many sensors on it. You guys have conducted so many experiments trying to test various conditions, and you found some anomalous activity that seems pretty clear. Have you ever wondered what you might find if you took
a similar approach to just other pieces of property, not Skinwalker Ranch. I guess what I'm trying to get out here with this question is do you think there might be more happening just all around us all the time that we're just not really able to pay attention to or able to sense, and we're not looking for it. That is a fantastic question, and it is indeed something
that we have we've actually as a team visited about that at length. You know, is it that we're seeing more anomalies phenomena here simply because this is where the attention is being focused, this is where where the instrumentation is or or is it you know, concentrated And I could tell you so. I think we've got evidence to suggest that both statements are true. I do believe after being on the ranch, I think there's so much going on in this
world that we just either can't see or measure. So I think it's widespread, and I think it's pretty well documented. There are a lot of hot spots and strange you know, or or i'll say places where strange things happen across the globe. You know, Skinwalker Ranch does not have a monopoly on
on phenomena. But that being said, I will say that we've had a couple incidents, and I'll give you one example is go back a couple of seasons when we we were picking up If I remember right, the RF spectrum was was really elevated, showing a lot of activity, and it got to be where I started getting the pins and needles sensation on my scalp, you know, kind of like when your arm or your limb goes to sleep and then you finally get blood fall and you got real pins and needles feeling.
H That's when I started filling across my entire scalp. And then I started to fill a slight throbbing start, you know, back behind my eyes. And that's when I said, I've got to get off the ranch. Yes, Travis stayed there. I evacuated the ranch. I got in the jeep and I left. Now, the interesting thing is is that as I left the ranch, the further I got away, the less that I had the pins and needles. By the time I got up to ute Plausea up there
for in the middle of for Duchane, that sensation had stopped. And and and it took a little bit longer for the headache to cease. But I know as I got further away from the ranch that stopped. Now here's how I this is why I feel like we have evidence to suggest that it was localized on the ranch is because Travis guy stayed there and they continued to monitor.
And if you remember, Travis like actually had a spell there where he started having a hard time, uh talking, He couldn't formulate a sentence, and they and and Dragon took him and put him in the silo and they were able to see that when he was inside the silo, the symptoms, uh you know, lessened, and when he came out of the silo they they got greater. That was all going on while I was off the ranch. So what that tells us as two things is one, as I got
further away it the symptoms got less. But we know the symptom, or we know that the phenomena or whatever it was going on there continued. So it wasn't that the it wasn't that whatever was causing that just you know, was diminishing and getting less. It continued. We had people on the ranch that you know, we were measuring this u they were able to show that that continued for quite a while. Travis had his himp, so it continued
on the ranch and me getting away from the ranch solved it. So in that case, I think that's some pretty strong evidence suggests that in that instance it was localized on the ranch. Yeah, great, excellent. I think that was better than the granola question, Nathan, I really do appreciate. But yeah, let me let me go to Debs. Debs, go ahead, ma'am. Yeah. So we got to speak to TJ. Allard,
who was very nice and has come on CAB a few times. Yeah, and he's kind of hinted that there are some things that happen to people that are not caught on the show. So that was my question, is what are some of the weird stories that don't make it into the show that you want to share with us. That's a great question, and he's absolutely right. It is accurate to say that there have been quite a few medical related instances that have happened to team members as well as other individuals that are on
the ranch that are not. You know, it's it's tough when we start getting into when we start getting into those medical instances. Now we have to weigh the person's privacy with the science. And there's some of them. There's some of the individuals that have had some pretty serious and remarkable things happen. And I say remarkable just in that like unexplained, but they were very sensitive about talking about it, and and so we always want to be very respectful
of their privacy. Now, I will say, you know, I think the show has shown some of those instances that have happened to some of us. I don't know. In in TJ's podcast with you, did he ever share any of the things that he experienced personally, Yeah, the fray effect where he was hearing the music and that's he kind of implied that's why he doesn't go to the ranch anymore. And he also talks about his phone getting messed up. Uh huh. Did he did he talk about any of the
effects that he had after he left? As far as I gotta be careful here. I don't want to. I don't want to said he went to the hospital. I think. Okay, all right, yes, so you know there's an example of somebody that and I won't I won't allude to. I just always get so cautious about talking about people's healthcare and their their anceymptoms.
But I will tell you this, there have been multiple individuals that have not been on the show that have had to go seek medical attention and and some of them, uh, some of them were fairly serious, were very serious. And some of them the diagnosis that I mean, the doctors were not able to determine what was causing it. It was it was elusive as far as being able to diagnose what exactly was going on. That's that's happened
multiple times with multiple individuals. It doesn't surprise me in the least. Miss Miss Courtney has a question. Hey, Thomas, this is a story, and so I'm just wondering what your commentary might be around the two potential UAP Task Force folks that came to Skinwalker Ranch. They brought instrumentation to study, you know, anomalous phenomenon. And I guess according to the story, there
was a wormhole or a portal that opened up. They were on the ground, of course, and I think it was night according to the story, and as they looked through this portal, it was daylight on the other side. And not only that, there was a signature derived from this event happening. I mean, is there anything you can say about it? Yeah, so I have heard about that. We've we've discussed that, you know, short of interviewing the individuals and just trying to get their account in a science
investigation, you know, we're kind of left. We're like, Okay, we've got the story, but what do you do with it? Right, there's we weren't able to get any measurements. And I have to say that that happened that predated our tenure on the ranch. And we've been we've heard a lot of these stories. We've talked and interviewed some of the people that
were involved with these stories. But the one thing that we've never been given is any data relating to these So you talk about the signature being picked up, Well, we're told there's a signature, but we've never been given that data. We don't know what it was. You know, Eric has, our principal investigator, Eric Bard has uh just thoroughly combed through all of the previous records anything we could get our hands on, because we didn't inherit anything
other than a narrative from the previous ownership. Nothing. So we got we got some stories, but no data. And so Eric has combed through anything to see if he could find any trace of data measurable, you know, if they were picking up a signature, what were they picking it up with, what was what was the measurement and and we don't have any of that
and that hasn't been shared with us to this day. So just but had you heard that something like that happened because the name yes, okay, because the names are slightly up because the UAP Task Force existed at the time when you were at the ranch. So it may have been a SAP or it may have been AFSAP that that that happened in that regime. So I'm yeah, I'm familiar with the story, and I'm familiar with the individuals that were involved with that. Yes, okay, awesome, great job Courtney, Courtney
connected And look who Vinnie Adams is here? Hi, Vinnie Adams. I don't know if you've been on his show. Or not disclose your team.
But boy, he's uh, he's got a great one. So what I wanted to ask you, I'm curious, Thomas if in all these experiences, I mean, what's coming to my mind is in your twenties in and around Utah, working in different areas, you couldn't have imagined that you'd be doing science experiments at this time in your life, which I think is probably really cool, right, But what I wanted to ask you is, at any time have you gone out of doors on the ranch and tried to communicate with
something or felt like something was communicating with you. Yes, yes I have. And I will say, look even six, if you told me eight years ago that I'd be doing this, I would have laughed at you. You know, I came on the ranch purely for business purposes. I didn't even I had zero interest in this genre, this space, and I was focused in on business only. And so I'll say that you know earlier on, and I'll preface that by saying, it took me a couple of years
before I'd even admit that this was real. Uh, and maybe not a couple of maybe a year year and a half before I would admit that it was real. And then and then to your question about communicating, I think
it was first done kind of ingest, kind of mockingly. You know, I've heard this all these stories and people are like, oh, it's trying and communicate, and so I think that when I first started doing it, it was kind of mockingly and I think it good example of that is is we had we had KSL Television come out and spend a day with us on
the ranch here a couple of years ago. It was right around Halloween, and they sent a reporter and uh videographer out there and they came and spent the day with us, and uh they brought their drone obviously to fly and to get some aerial shots. And this is all they They did the report on it, and this is all on their report. You can you can
go search it find it on YouTube KSL. But the interesting thing was is that this uh, this videographer, she had a drone and Eric had been we'd just been his side command center and Eric had been briefing them on on the different things that we've seen, and he was talking specifically to her about the electromagnetic interference that we've been experiencing and now he felt like, you know, there was a magnetic fingerprint, if you will, on some of the
phenomena. He's been able to replicate some of the things we've seen using a very strong magnet. And so he's talking about this. We go outside and and her drone won't take off, and there's a message on the screen saying electromagnetic interference. Move the drum in the command center, right, yeah, well this is out on the helipad. O yep. So she moved. They finally get up in the air, and then we decided to go down to Homestead two and do a shot. And we put her drone down and
it will not connect. And I've got this on video. I videoed this on my phone. She sat there and we literally tried everything she could think of to get this drone to connect and take off, and it wouldn't. She tried taking the batteries out, put him back in, restarting it, reloading, I mean, you name it. She tried, it wouldn't go up. So we moved it to a different spot a couple hundred feet down the road, and the same thing and just again, I you know,
I look back at it. I in my heart it was kind of mocking a little bit, but I raised my arms up in the air and I said, will you please, hey, ranch, will you please let her drone connect so she can get this shot. And I'm not even kidding. Almost instantaneously after I said that, the drone connected and took off and she got her daughter's shot. And you know, we tell people all the time, it's not what happens on the ranch necessarily, it's when it happens.
You know, the drone connecting taking off by hisself was not a big deal, but when you preface that with the fact that we've been trying for twenty minutes to get it connected, wouldn't And it wasn't until I put my arms
up the air and say that. So I've had a number of incidents where I've done that, and I have to say they started out kind of like mockingly, but I said, but I'll tell you right now, I think up to the point now they're less mocking and more like, you know, I've witnessed it too many times and I'm like, there might be something to this. I'm not gonna mock it because I might end up looking like the fool in the end. So you know, it's been a journey, it's
been a progression. And yes I have I have talked out loud out there and and I sound crazy. Oh my gosh, I can't even believe how far I've come. I sound crazy, Threving admitting this, But I do feel like something out there here's me, and there is some type of communication. It's no different than people talking to God. Right. It's not something that you can see, but you feel it, right. So yeah,
and that is that is really cool to know. We have about five minutes with you, and I want at least the other caves that each get a question, so I'll shut up and please go ahead, money Nathan. Yeah, So, Thomas, you alluded to the incident you were describing earlier about the sensation you were feeling. And I don't know if you've kept up with this in the news, but sixteen minutes to the piece about the directed energy weapons and Havana syndrome, and you know, there seemed to be this connection
to Russia with these directed energy weapons. It sounds like a lot of the phenomenon that people experienced physiologically could be described as directed energy. And I don't know if you've thought about that or you guys have explored that sources of that energy, whether it's coming from off the ranch below the ranch, and we're kind of exploring that through different sensors. But what's your take on kind of the havana syndrome and you know what might be the root cause of that.
Well, you know, I had a severe head injury in twenty seventeen that almost cost me my life. I was in the hospital and my doctors, I mean I was to the point that the doctors called my wife in and told her to start preparing the family for you know, it didn't look like I was going to pull through. I haven't. I've been reluctant to talk about that, and I haven't to this day. I mean, we're all skirt around it. They show my cat scan at nauseum and I say that
they they do such a great job on show. But you know, you've seen my cat scan on the screen a lot. You know, we skirt around it. I haven't ever dived into it, but I I will just tell you to your question, go look at the time my injury. My symptoms started showing themselves on March fourth to twenty seventeen, Go back and look at when they evacuated the Havanah Embassy, the Cuba embassy there in Havana, and look at the timeline there, and then start diving in and you start
looking at the symptoms those people exhibited. And I'll just tell you right now that those are the people that have come forward and talked. There's many more that haven't. And I'll just tell you that I follow it extremely closely. I have since day one, and well I haven't since we started really diving in and looking closely at my injuries. So that's that's probably all I'll say
about that. But I'll just tell you I you're on the right track, and I think there's, uh, there's a lot we we ought to be paying attention to that really really closely. Wonderful, Thank you, miss. I was gonna say, I concur because U ap Med was looking at that when I was helping them out Hevana syndrome, and we've learned quite a bit how that worked. There's more to that story, for sure, but I'm just going to keep my question quick and simple. My question is what do
you think's under the ranch dirt? You know, come on, Thomas, Uh, that's a great question. I think that's the question. I think that's the question that all of us team members have. It's like what is under there? And and I'll tell you it's been fascinating as we have really gone in and explored. Are you guys on a tight timeline if I go over a minute or two as I don't know? No, No, we're
we're good. We just want to take your time. Yeah, I want to make sure I answered this question, give it the time it deserves. So as we've tried to explore underground, you know, we inherited this narrative of don't dig, bad things happen when you dig, diserve the earth and uh, and I've seen enough to say there's, uh, there's some correlation there. Whether or not it's causation, I don't think we could say, but there are definitely a lot of correlation to suggest that in fact, when
we do digging exercises, bad things happen. But we see these guys come out with these sophisticated GPR instruments ground penetrating radar, it seems like, and we've we've had a number of them out there, different experts, different pieces of equipment, different even different types of technology on how they go about getting this information. Uh. And they've just been showcased on the show throughout the seasons. And one of the things that is consistent that comes back is that
when they when they do these GPR scans on the ranch. We had Jan frank out last year, season four, and Jan's been all over the world. I forget, He's been, I mean one hundred and something countries. He's gone and done GPR in Uh. Very one of the most I would say he's probably one of the top experts in his field. He comes out to the ranch. First of all, his equipment will not operate the way it's supposed to. It completely baffles him. He can't figure it out.
He's never he's only he told us he's only seen that kind of interference one other time, and that was down I believe, he said, in Columbia and they found out that they were really close to a military base. It's only it's only time he's experienced that type of interference, which I found interesting.
But the other interesting thing is is that as they try to get GPR into our soil, they I'll tell us the same thing, your soil is really highly conductive, and the soil being highly conductive just causes so much interference that they can't make heads or tails beyond nine or ten feet down. What's there? So to your question, what's below Skinwalker Ranch? I keep saying, what is causing this high conductivity that's in our soil, that's causing this
interference? What is it? And then we go into the Mesa and we find this metal three hundred feet into the mesa for which you know, we ship it off the University of Utah and they're telling us this is not natural, this is forged. And we're asking ourselves, why is there metal three hundred feet inside this dry deserty Mesa for which we have no evidence of mining
in that area? As far as that specific spot, we have the US geological surveys that show I think it's the US geological that we have them back to nineteen thirty seven, shows no sign of digging in that area. And so we don't know's We honestly don't know what's below the surface. We've been we inherited a narrative. I mean, we've been told so many stories from people during the Bigelower era that there was this vast network of tunnels under the
ranch. We've been told there's a military base deep down below the ranch. All these things, well, I'll tell you right now if that's true. I mean, the area could have been chosen because there's highly if we've got satellites up there that are capable of seeing below the earth surface, which we do now that can see like six kilometers into the Earth's surface, that's a
long ways down. If that's truly the case, then if you're gonna put a military base or some kind of type of installation, picking someplace that's got a high conductivity would sure be a great masking, you know, to distort and cause all kinds of interference. So they drilled an oil well to the southwest of the ranch, not on the ranch, one of our neighboring properties,
just to the southwest. I talked, I talked to the guy that was in charge of He was I forget the name, the title that he has, but he was in charge of the entire drilling operation on that specific coal and he told us that that drilling rig experienced so many problems that the entire drilling crew was was convinced they were on top of an Indian burial ground, and they actually ended up pulling the pipe up out of the hole.
I don't know how far down they got, but they ended up moving the rig and drilling the whole the well and it you know, they moved it over a little bit and tried it again. So it's interesting that they couldn't achieve this oil well right there. And So to answer your question, I mean, I just that was a long winded answer. We've got a lot of data trying to get in there. But personally I think that there's there's got to be something a piece of technology. There's got to be something that's
causing all that. I don't know, is the honest answer. You know, the metal makes me think maybe there's an ancient spaceship or something in there, but I don't know, maybe got a crash site. Well, I mean, it's hard not to go there because all the other so you're looking, you're like, we know there wasn't. I would imagine if there's any mining in the nineteen hundreds, it would have shown up on those first photographs, and they're just there's no sign of any tailings, there's no sign of
any roads in there. Out of the maze that there's no signs to suggest there's mining. So then that puts us into the eighteen hundreds and you look at the metal there and you're like, I don't know, did we have technology back in the eighteen hundreds to forge metal like that. I mean, we're talking about metal that is the width of card stock, that's different materials on one side than it is on the other, and is so uniform. And we didn't just pull out one piece. We brought out a lot of
pieces. I mean we got we got a ziploc bag of this stuff. Uh, and it's so uniform and so perfect that you look and you're like, what, what could be three hundred feet inside that mesa that has that so uh, you do say, maybe maybe it is a crash site. I mean, maybe the conductive soil one of these uh, you know, trans medium craft went into the mason We've got We've got so many stories of
the mesa opening up and craft flying in and out of it. And when I say stories, I've talked about people that were in the Big Low era that were on the ranch as well as I have interview neighbors are surrounding properties that are there today and people that lived there back in the eighties who tell me they sat out on their porch and watched things fly in and out of the MESA, and these are people that seem really well grounded, very credible.
So when you start thinking about that, you're like, well, maybe if there's something like that, that, if there's some truth to that, maybe they got into that conductive soil jammed their instrumentation, they got stuck in there. I mean, your guess is as good as mine. That was a great answer, very comprehensive. Thank you. And for the last question,
is our research or Courtney connected? Okay, so I'm not sure how up to date you are on this or not, so you can just say no, not, and then I'll go to my second question real quick. Have you gone through Jim Sigala's slides or anything from the Moupas research study? Yes? Okay, So one of the things I noticed when I looked at the data, that was twenty two times the gamma in the sensor data, in the in the in the studies, in the participants. Have you seen
readings like that on Skinwalker too? Because I know the sample size or the or the participants were part of Skinwalker Ranch. So I'm just wondering if you were able to correlate at all these individuals and these gamma signatures and these gamma sensors with the ranch locations. Well, I'll just I'll preface it by this. I consider Jim a good friend. We worked with him, but I don't know, like, I don't know enough about his sensor package to know
how it's put together. So I without being able to speak to the validity of the sensor itself, it's hard to say. Here's what I'll tell you. We have seen very enormous readings similar to what he's seen. But the problem that we're having as a team and I don't I can't speak to him because I don't know what he's done on his sense. The problem is is,
let's talk about gamma rays. We get the gamma ray hit. Are we actually seeing gamma ray hits or are we seeing electromagnetic interference with the with the circuitry itself that's spoofing it and making it think that it's seeing that, but it's not actually seeing gamma rays. It's seeing it's seeing an interference in
the circuitry. Does that make sense? Like? Yes, So we you know, we've tried different experiments of trying to put like these sensors, like these gamma rays sensors UH in a Faraday cage to try to block out the MF so that we could tell whether it's truly gamma or not. And as of right now, I'm going to just say that I think it's still up in the air with us. We still can't discern whether it's E MF or
if it's actually gamma. So how about in the ground, did you bury it down into the ground, because and he was talking about it around people's homes. He was saying they could be buried down into the ground to a certain amout on the feet and it was pretty deep. So just to follow up quick, what what exactly on that? What what exact measurement or reading are we talking about? Are we talking about gammas? Are we talking about
UH like RF? Are we talking groundsonic? He went into it. He did multi sensor, but he did say specifically that they buried the gamma down into the ground. So that was the only reason why I asked it, if you guys have done that as one of your test measures test measures? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, we've got we do have a couple different subsurface places that we have instrumentation. We have one that's called Uh, We've got the Satan's pit that's out in the field. That's blow surface.
Eric's got its sentinel assignment, telemetry and notification system. It's an acronym, but it's at The acronym is Satan and it's and it monitors below ground. And Eric has a multiple sensors, the infrasonic. I don't know though, Like I'm not a scientist. I can't speak to that. I the gamma rays in the ground is that. I don't know what to say about that. So I'll just have to pass. I'm not knowledgeable enough to speak intelligently on it. How about that? No problem? I was going to
say, that was a great question, Courtney and Thomas. It just really amazing, Like I alluded to earlier, that you've gone from ranch hand to ranch manager to associate scientist and that must be something very powerful, you know, just in your everyday life when you're talking with people and they're like, wow, man, Thomas has a lot about science, you know, and how to take measurements and evaluate results. And so I congratulations to you on
just that sort of you know, evolution of yourself. I'm sure we would all love to, you know, have that opportunity to to learn about science and and uh and be able to have that knowledge so awesome. Uh. The last thing I'm just gonna say it just it's sort of a yes or. But what I was thinking about before is, at one point, you guys did some sort of an experiment and Eric went back into the command center and there was something on the screen that was looked like the phenomenon projected something
onto the screen. Do you remember that or am I imagining that? Sure exactly which incident you're talking about? Yeah, I'm not sure that was the living incident. Right. Oh, thank you God, bless you so. Uh. I believe Eric. That's a long story. It's it is incredible, but I'll tell you this. Eric has shared that story several times.
I believe. We have the Skinwalker Ranch Insider's page. It's a it's a subscription based platform, but it gives those that are really enthusiastic about our investigation the opportunity to get behind the scenes and more data and more. And Eric has shared that in there. So for those individuals that are interested in that, they could go to that go to our Skinwalker dash ranch dot com and sign up being an insider and the other insiders will direct them on where that's
at. Eric tells that story goes in length on it. It's incredible. It still gives me chills to this day to hear him tell it. It's got to be one of the most mind blowing things that's happened at the Ranch. That's irrefutable is how that writing got there, you know, but that we don't need to take it down. That all. We're talking about the Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch on History Channel, debuting tonight at ten Eastern nine Center.
So, Thomas, we're gonna go with Kabby goodbyes, and then we're gonna continue the show and just talk about stuff and how much fun this was, and we're gonna let you go, but let's start with Courtney. Please, Cabby goodbyes. Hey, Thomas, thanks for being willing to feel my difficult questions, and good luck with the next season. Good luck with your health. It was so nice to be able to meet you here tonight and to ask you some of those questions. Good luck. Thank you. Debs.
The mute button is uh oh, Deb's gone mute, Nathan, we can come back to Debs. Oh, I'm here, I'm here, Okay, Sorry, I didn't realize I was still muted because I go from the mic. So I'm going to pull out some of my old research into the medical things and recommend that you google Brad Moss, who did an ah I at Foyer and it's very in depth about what is happening with what is commonly known as Havana syndrome and how it impacts people. And it's one of the
most detailed documents. I just googled it and something called Salon dot com has it out there for some reason. I don't know why that's where it ended up, but it's out there. The foya is available to the public if anyone wants to learn more about HI. And of course I'm mentioning this because all my heart's going out to you for dealing with that, Frankly, and thank you so much for talking to us about that and everything else. Well, thank you. I appreciate you sharing that with me. Yeah, we
can send that to Thank you to Kirby Dixon of History Channel. Thank you, Kirby, ma'am for setting this all up with Thomas. We really appreciate it. It was so much fun. And we will send that foya to Kirby so she can forward it to you and money Nathan. Yeah, Thomas, A huge pleasure to have you with us. Big fan of the show, watched every season, really rooting for you guys to get to the bottom of this and know nobody wants to know the answer more than you do as
to what's going on out there. And I hope you guys get some answers soon. So best of luck with season five and hopefully we'll get a chance to talk to you again in the future. So thanks again for joining us. Thank you. Yeah, I'd love to come back. Oh yeah, definitely, we would love to have you back. I want to thank you
Thomas for all the obvious hard work. I'll never forget. It looked like you were just like sweating bullets when you were trying to drill horizontally into the Mason trying to get you know, keep everything together and get get some of the samples out, and and all your hard work that you've done on the ranch, and also you know, the sort of development of your science base to be able to assist to you and Dragon and everybody else has gotten involved.
It's very impressive and thank you so much for your time, and we'll definitely like to host you on cab again, so now must day. Thank you very much. It sounds good. Thanks guys, appreciate it all right, bye, Thomas, take care all right, guys. Great job, Kaby, Yeah, very good stuff. I love talking to that guy. Very knowledgeable. Awesome. Yeah, I mean you could tell, man.
I mean like he obviously had to get himself into a position where he would understand what Eric and Travis are talking about to be able to go and execute these experiments and not look like a meathead, which is what I would look like if I were out in the ranch. And that's a process, you know, that's not something that that just happens. Yeah. One, And when you have a kind of personal stake in it like he does. This
is not just somebody that is showing up to get a paycheck. He's been personally impacted by the activity there at the ranch, and I think he wants answers understand what happened to him. And I think it's incredible that he had such a life threatening medical experience an emergency level, which was obviously addressed after
it happen, but that he came back. I always thought that was profound that he came back, kept working and so I wonder what part of that is, like an insatiable desire to try to understand what happened, But to be able to arm yourself after having that experience and coming back to the ranch is pretty impressive, and that's pretty courageous. I feel like what I'm seeing or what I feel is that this is not just dudes that are thrown together to do a TV show or dudes that are local in the area. I
believe Brandon treats them like family. He has referred I've heard him refer to them as family. I've heard him talk about his many years relationship with the Dragon, and I believe that's what brought him back more so than the science or wanting to know about the ranch. I believe they feel like they're a family unit. And the real difficult part was when you bring in this outlier in Travis Taylor, and I'm sure there was a I'm sure they give each
other crap. You know, you've you've heard Dragon do it. And I think he had to earn their trust to become one of them because they had already been there and experiences. So that that's my feeling. But Debs, what's your take? Man, I've got to meet Brandon in New York, and he was just a gentleman and very nice and very genuine. I feel like he not only really is curious about the phenomenon, but he really cares about what's happening on the ranch. And he's very concerned about his people.
And he's always very quick to like try to encourage safety and caution if there's something that you know is a little dangerous. So he's a good man. He's a good leader for them, and they have a lot of good leaders working on this project. So I got to give them all props. And speaking of props, Brandon has some of the best props. I don't know if y'all seen his office, like in some of the interviews I so, I feel like like he earned a lot of like respect points from me for
some of those. I gotta say, Yeah, he's a gen He's that is a guy that you talk about leadership, that's a guy who's a great leader. I would I'd gladly go out there and follow that guy's lead because I know that he was going to care about me. And there's a sort of saying it's not only in the military, but we did use it. But it's also outside the military. People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. If they know you care genuinely about them,
then they'll want to follow your lead in some case. I mean, there's more to leadership than just that. But uh, if they just think you're just a stepping stone for them to get what they want, then they're going to do the least amount possible that they can. Uh, you know, in in whatever endeavor that that you're trying to him up on. And he's done an outstanding job. Well, I have a question for everyone. If you don't mind, would you go to the ranch? Oh? Yeah,
I was going to ask the same question. I was going to ask the same sad question, Nathan. Is that a question? I mean I'd go absolutely, Oh you wouldn't even nobody here? What has your teammates here? I mean, nobody here is hesitating. We're going to the ranch, all right, and because we feel like our intention is going to carry the
day. Yeah, we didn't get to ask about intention. I really wish we had gotten to because a lot of people say that that's a big part of it, and like, my intention would be one hundred percent to go out there and try to communicate with whatever's going on. Yeah, I mean that's why I asked him that question, and I was sure that he had and if something had tried to communicate with him, that might not be comfortable to share something like that maybe right in that community, Nathan that Yeah.
I mean, look, I think we're talking about something really important about this show. It's got heart, you know, it's it's a scientific it's really trying hard to deliver scientific data and results. But you can clearly see that this team has a lot of heart for the project, hard for each other. It's a it's it's a dynamic thing. It's not a very like flat just laboratory and let me get this data. Let me and this is challenging
too. And we've all, I know, everybody on the show here can understand this, that there's this demand for data, this strong demand for data, this data that we can replicate in the laboratory environment, we can so we can prove something is there. But we also really familiar with many accounts of individuals that really seem to defy the kind of standard data collection that our science, you know, sort of expects. And so you've got this strange
dichotomy. You really can't have a I don't think six Skinwalkers the Secret Skinwalker Ranch has established itself itself as a show that is going to have an episode showing Thomas Winterton, you know, talking to the ranch. But clearly that's a dynamic at work on the ranch itself that I would not be surprised. I don't think any of us would be surprised if every team member there has had some sort of quote unquote WU experience related to the ranch. That is,
it doesn't fall neatly into that data scientific experiment bucket. And I think that's a real challenge, right, This is the challenge that is in front of us, Like, if it doesn't conform to our paradigm of collection, then it's not real. And clearly whatever this is seemingly is kind of demanding us to widen our expectations and you know, change the paradigm that we're even
using to try to understand it. And that's a huge challenge. I have something to share in add on to that, Oh, go ahead, deb Yeah, I just want to throw out there also that people really misunderstand scientists anyway, like they always envisioned something very sterile that people lose their humanity scientists that they're just like all by the numbers, and you know, like that's not what a scientist is. They're real people trying to figure something out,
working hopefully with the hypothesis, and trying to find evidence for it. And yeah, so that's that's all I wanted to say about that. So I was just going to say I met with somebody recently, you know, involved with the task force, and he said that, you know, he had the opportunity to take people out to Skinwalker Ranch and he sat around and asked all these different people who had been out there, you know, how many
people have had the hitchhiker effect? And everybody raised their hand. Everybody raised their hand, which I was astonished that. I was just astonished by that. I was thinking maybe one percent, maybe five percent, but it was unilateral. So that's how something. What do you think of a hitchhiker affect, Nathan? What what do you think is going on there? Yeah, it's I mean, I think there's a lot of things going on there.
I think it's it's not purely psychological, it's not it's sort of purely like hard science and rational, like it's somebody that's like some sort of chemical like that. I think it's a much more dynamic. I hate I hate the way that it sounds because it sounds so mysterious and elusive like, and we were being giving it kind of a boogey Man type of name, this Hitchhiker effect, and you know, it has it concox all these strange theories.
But you know, from what we seem to be knowing or learning about ways in which uh, you know, sort of objects are connected to it to one another, that that we might be connected to one another absence of distance, like the non local connection between information, then you know, Hitchhiker effect could very well be something that that is akin to that some sort of you know, kind of coupling of of effects from one place that are that are
then coupled somehow entwined or entangled if we want to use that you know, kind of quantum language to this individual regardless of where they happen to be. And then there's also you know where I think we brought it up on the
show before, but it's been probably quite some time. There's something called the Philip experiment, where there's like this group of people that basically get together and they they collectively they come up with this character named Philip, and then they kind of imagine what this character is like, and then and they try to communicate with it in there, and then they independently start getting information from this character that they concocted. So there's something about uh, I think what that
says. There's something about group intention, there's something about the collection of minds and will and inner you focus. That that is, you know, kind of tied into this what we would call the Hitchhiker effect. I don't think we understand it at all, but you know, clearly it seems to be
at play. Could you conceive of it possibly being energy that projects as a result of your physical presence in this area, projects itself into you and then when you leave, it remains into you and which makes people feel ill and then dissipates. Do you think it's it's an energy? Yeah, I mean that's I don't know. I mean, I don't have a good answer for that, because you know, it partly speaks to like what are we? Right? I think that that's that's the big mystery here, is like what
are we that that even allows and enables effects like this to occur? So when I look at you, you know, Courtney deb whatever I'm seeing, you know, what I see. But but how much of you is not what I see? You know? How much of you extends beyond just what I'm seeing now and into some other realm, some other dimensional space. And we use these words because we don't really have good words for that. But
how har does our presence truly extend? And you know, maybe some of these places, you know, a lot of our ancient cultures know kind of call them at these places like thin places, and I think in the in the Celtic tradition, you know, they're called thin places where the boundary between you know, the waking world and the spirit world is very very thin.
There's this overlap, this kind of collapsing that occurs. And that's again it's just a placeholder language to explain a kind of phenomena that they experience that we would now call something like a hitchhiker effect or something like paranormal experience that is extra normal than what we experience in our day to day waking states. Or is it like those rice paper doors in the Japanese homes, you know that where you slide the I mean you saw a showgun the original anyway, Courtney,
are we energy or are we something? Well, you know, I've studied a lot of different energy you know, modalities and complementary mental health, and so I definitely ascribe to the energy models, don't. I don't think that it's always just one. But I think when you do, you know, submerse yourself in those practices, you can feel it. You can feel it embodied within your body, which is like a feult sense, and so it doesn't go into all the descriptions you know of you know how consciousness,
you know, feels that it's a felt sense. And so yeah, just because of my own subjective experience and teachings in those studies, I definitely think energy is a big part of it and consciousness together linked deb so that that sort of aura that people bring with them into the room and you can feel it when they enter, and it could also you know, form why there's sort of a connection with some of these places. How do you like to refer to that last comment? And then we're going to get out of here,
but go ahead, Well, scientists call that the biofield malet. It's had a lot of different names, she chakra, you know, other names of ethereal energy, you know, the people talk about it. I can sense the energy within my body and if you think about it, basically are very electrical beings, water which is a conduit, and electricity, and you can see some of our energy, the thermal energy, you know, with like thermal goggles and stuff like that, you can sense the temperature from another
person, you know, like there's different ways that energy forms. The spectrum's pretty vast. But I have a different perspective on a hitchhiker, please man. Well, Colm keller Heer and Kit Green were studying hitchhiker and they talk about it as if it were a contagion, which leads me to another aspect that it might not be. It might be something I just haven't been able
to explain yet that is a little bit like. Okay, So I was watching the movie or the show about some of the meltdowns that have happened with radiation, and I found out that radiation is contagious, Like you can go up to someone who's been irradiated and become irradiated yourself, and when you are
irradiated, you can have symptoms like schizophrenia when you are extremely irradiated. So My thought is this might be a different form of something like a radiation exposure, and that's why I kind of lean towards their contagion model with it. And we just don't fully understand what it is yet. Damn everyone knows that that's how Godzilla can make that blue flame come out of his mouth. I mean, this is nothing new, that's true. It's also actually the story
about how the Japanese comic Ultraman came about. Yeah, there you go, there's precedents here deb Ultraman. All right, all right, yeah, I'm just trying to make us all X men basically, way to finish it off, and it doesn't Spider Man, I don't know if anyway, Man, that was so much fun. So tomorrow night we have Sean Munger. He is Bob plisk Snake zero nine or Bob Pliskin on on Twitter. He is a government lawyer. He is also available to represent whistleblower types that would like
to come out consult with him. And there's a team of maybe a dozen lawyers I think he said that are in this arena and he's one of them. Former Marine Corps enlisted who went and got his degree in law and did the damn thing and became a lawyer. And he is a staunch advocate. You know, those of you who know, like Rob Sheridan, you know, the Irish disclosure advocate is ferocious. So Sean Munger is equally ferocious. He's the American version of that. And go figure. He lives in Boston.
There's an Ireland connection there. So we're gonna get to talk to him tomorrow. He's going to talk about sort of methodologies of ways people can come out and disclose and and maybe being a safer spot and shield yourself a little
bit. And we'll get into that tomorrow. Courtney. You'll have some things and we're going to try to, you know, get everybody calm down, right, Nathan, from what happened last weekend when people try to disclose and write and just kind of you know, everybody, just take a breath. These people want to tell a story of what happened to them, and just calm down and don't freak out because they're doing it because they want the phenomenon to be known, just like you. Yeah, looking forward to and I
can't wait to meet Munger. I've just learned about to Unger. I cannot wait to meet this guy, and I missed the last time we had him on, so I'm excited to and look, how often do we get to do a back to back cabbage a double feature. So exciting week for the show. Here to to do that. We're back within in the next twenty four hours. Lots of affairs, Yes, we got lots of fairs, and we will thank you so much. You guys were just amazing tonight.
Man. Usually we say this on our our private chat. We'll do kind of show debriefs and stuff. You guys is just we're awesome again. Man, you killed it so uh and I'm sorry I ruined it with the granola question, but CeAl Killer came out of it. That was nice. That was nice entree into the whole thing, and I want that sounds great. Well, I saw one women see it. I saw one woman see it. She was like, that is offensive. That is offensive. And I was like, oh, she didn't like cereal Killer. Yeah, And I
was totally going with granola. I mean, I literally one of these guys who spends you know, five minutes or ten minutes in front of the that Island Whole Foods because I have seventy five different granolas to choose from. It's too much. And I want to tell you guys something, When you go to choose a granola, it's either gonna be You're either gonna love it or you're gonna hate it. And it really is okay, I gotta ask everybody. This is like the big takeaway. I gotta know. So you do
you guys do like fruit? Do you do you do your cranberry or blueberry and your granola? Are you more like? No? No? No? Is it bad that I don't really eat that big like fruit, nut, granola, you know, all of it. But I think some people don't like the fruit. I think, honestly, if I had yogurt and it came with that little thing on the lid, with like the little the granola or whatever, then I would eat it little the sauce, make a little jem. It's a three year old. I look, I've got some in
the pantry downstairs. There's no fruit in it. I don't hate fruit in the granola, but it needs to be something that I can chew. I don't like when I get the fruit in there that's like so hard you feel like you're gonna break it too. That's good hard blueberries are not. I'm
not conducive to a good mouth. Feel folks, you come to calling all beings to get your We need sponsor now, all right, Nathan, get us out of here for Courtney Divs and Nathan, we will see you tomorrow night with Seawan Monger's uh Bob pluskin be here, peace out, one love. We'll see you down the road. And we're always wondering what's up around the Bend.