I've been involved in doing stuff around human sexuality and kinky my whole life. As I get older, I'm more interested in and kink and helping that mainstream a little bit. So I did a documentary called Touch Kink, which kind of goes through the reasons why people shouldn't be afraid of kink. And in fact, I actually started. I think it's a superior way to interact, at least the, the mindset of kink, of following those the, the, the circle.
The reason I have the, the big O in touch kink is a, it's a circle. You know, if I talk to you and I don't assume anything, I just ask you who you are and what you like and, you know, tell me a little bit about yourself and so on and negotiate something. And if we decide we're going to try something, then we work on the consent and make sure that it's not just consent, not just a yeah, but a hell yeah.
Like an enthusiastic consent. I think a lot of people sometimes take yes, is, is, is the end all and beyond. I don't think it is because I think people will say yes to things that they're not really ready for sometimes. So it's your job to sort of make sure they're ready for what they're saying yes to. So it's enthusiastic informed consent and then, you know, playing and doing whatever that is and then checking in with the person afterwards, the
aftercare. And you know, the more I think about that circle, it's sort of the way forward for everything, for business. You know, I shouldn't be just trying to take from you. I should be able to try and make a circle and make sure you're happy with whatever we did. Personal life. We should, you know, shouldn't just be taking. It should always be this kind of circle. And I think it's also a way forward culturally. A lot of men I've talked to are kind of like, well, what do I do?
How am I supposed to behave around women anymore? My dad used to say, you basically kind of put your hand on the shoulder and you you work down to the thing. And then you try and wrap around to the boob and see how far you can get before they say no. You know, that's kind of how it was apparently back in the day. So a lot of guys said, well, what are we supposed to do now? You know what, what's the rule?
You know? And I said, well, it's actually better than it was before because the other person also has the responsibility to take charge of their own pleasure and their own whatever. So you will have to ask them what they like, what kinds of things they like. Maybe they like that. Maybe they'll be more raring to go than you are, you know, But it doesn't really matter. You got to have those conversations. And then the end of the day, it's not that you can't smack
someone on the ass anymore. You can long as that's longer, Damn sure that's what they like, you know, and if I just because you smack one person on the ass doesn't mean the next person's going to be down with that or the person even got their ass spanked is down with someone else doing it. But the truth is it's better than it was before because we have to be more open. We have to be more honest and we can make our own worlds the way we want.
And, you know, there are lots of people that are kinky and left love 50s household where they basically go back to a 50s style thing where, you know, the man or the woman fetches the slippers and the man or the woman cooks the dinner or the, the, the, however they want to identify. So I, I, I think kink is more than just this sort of thing on the edge that some people think is odd. It, it really is a way forward for a lot of people. It's a home for letting them discuss.
That's why I love it. I prefer interacting with kinky people just because you the conversations are more fun. And of course, you do hit occasionally people, but maybe you're, they want to talk about something you're not interested, interested in or vice versa. And you can say, OK, that's your kink and that's cool, but it's not mine. So, you know, I think it's just such a great way forward. And that's why I wanted to make this documentary.
You know, what you're doing is you're bringing in like a whole new revolution of, of the concept of BDSM that people don't see, you know, and like you said, people are so uneducated about it and they don't, they don't really grasp concept when they're not in the lifestyle. So they automatically think the worst, you know, because there's a lot of misconceptions about it. Yeah, that was, I mean, I, I've been fortunate enough in my life to get a travel and live in lots of countries.
And I can't believe I had that misconception about a dominatrix myself. And I, I still remember being so surprised how sweet this person was and how intelligent they were. And and I, I really thought, well, it doesn't seem much of it, but, you know, realizing later that you're actually not much of A Dom if you have to tell people you're a Dom and you shouldn't. And we all start off as human beings and then we decide, you know, maybe you want to be a Dom for someone.
Maybe you don't even want to be a Dom for that person. Doesn't mean you have to some people it's more like a coat they put on some people it's more of their personality. But even when it's more of their personality, it's nobody's anything all the time. And that that is a thing.
I mean, it's I often make the comparison with the gay community to what's happening in kink now because I mean, I understand there's it's a different thing, but there is parallels in terms of there was this cliche 40 years ago, what it was to be gay. You know, you didn't expect a high-powered business guy or army guy or whatever, like these sort of much use, but of course they are too. It's not, there's no one, it's not like there was the cliche
that they started with. And then as time went on, you realized, well, gay people, like anything else, come in a million different types. And there's no cliche there either. And same with kinky people. They, they, you can start with the, the, the, the cliches, but you know, it's not the truth. So we, we, it takes process to people coming out and people educating and people talking
about this. That's why it was so important in my film to have somebody that really did think it was weird and really did think kinky people were weird, to sort of go through it and see if she found. What I hope the audience would find is that there's some really useful knowledge there, and in many ways it's a superior way forward. Am I saying everyone is kinky as somehow superior? Of course not. But it is a good thing to know
about. It's a good thing, especially navigating modern relationships, taking charge of your own body to, you know, take heart of your own pleasure and who who you are and how you to have those tools to be able to, you know, assert yourself or ask for what you want or, you know, they just having that language, having that language of kink makes it more likely that you're going to connect. So that's why I think it's super important that people understand kink. And that's the results.
I've been to 18 film festivals now and the film's been shown to thousands and thousands and thousands of people. And, and one of the biggest compliments I can get is it from people is, you know, thank you. This really gave me a new way to look at, look at the world, to look at, look at the things. And that's really something I aspire to. So in your documentary explain it to people because you have 4 different people in your documentary and it's based on
them. So tell the audience about it. Yeah, well, the truth is it's a documentary. It's not a, a a fiction. So I mean, I, I met January who introduced me to more people that introduced me. So it's the people that I met. I actually met literally hundreds of people. But I I focused in on the people where something happened to them.
There was some sort of Arc 1 was just a a good old boy from Texas that was very articulate about his interest in masochism and being submissive and, and how, you know, he believes how that happened and why it happened. And his relationship with that one was a dominatrix that frankly was very new to the
scene. She really kind of decided to do and just jumped all the way in, you know, bit naively really in kind of becoming the poster child for what it was to be a dominatrix in London. And unfortunately took a lot of Flack for that, far more than she realized, which kind of illustrates why how the community is still marginalized to some extent or can be used to. Again, could be a reason, you know, it shouldn't be.
But you know, it's one of those things you can say to sort of try and marginalized somebody, you know, and the it's sad that it's the reality of it. So it's her story and how she went through it. And then Grace, who was someone who was curious. I've met her before when I was traveling. I kind of sensed she was very dominant woman, I'll be honest. But I don't think she knew what that was so much. She'd always said she liked her military boys and some men found her bitchy.
And me, I'm like, you're a dominatrix and you don't even know it. That's OK. So I put her through this course and I was hoping that she would discover what I suspected, but I was going to put it either way. And she did. She really started started clicking for her why some kinds of men really liked being with her and other men not so much. And, and the way she was and it was OK to have sort of more a female led relationship and that
was OK too. So and now she she married the guy, got 2 beautiful kids and happier than you could imagine by just discovering this world and and giving her the courage to be who she is. And now she's, last time I saw her was at a screening in San Diego with her big posse of girls all following her. You know, she's definitely become the queen, the queen bitch. And I mean that loving way. It's amazing how people, you know, people always ask me, they're like, can you teach me
how to be a Dom? And it's like you really can't teach people. It's like it's either ingrained in you. I can teach you to top people, but a lot of people don't even realize their capabilities. You know, like you said, she didn't have any idea that she was a dominant. You know it. It's interesting. It is fascinating and I think we all have I don't believe anybody's 100% anything. I don't think you're 100% anything.
And and this, you know, if you've ever been to a group where you watch a bunch of submissives or slaves types on their own, eventually a hierarchy starts to emerge. 1 is just tired of the total chaos and decides to sort of take charge. So even someone who identifies as slave or submissive of will will be one with a slightly more dominant tendency than the others. And that person usually sort of ends up taking control of the situation. So I think we're everything.
I think we have masculine traits, I think we have feminine traits. I think we have, you know, dominant traits, submissive traits. A lot of it is called like I always identified more as a Dom and going through this, I'm finding myself more switchy because I'm like, well, you know, I felt like I was sort of the Dom because I was supposed to be because I was a guy. And then I met so many wonderful people that explained it to me.
And I'm like, I'm missing out on a lot of really fun stuff here. So yeah, I could be switchy. I can, I can, I can you want me to call you mistress or goddess or whatever, you know, that that's it would be my honor, you know, if we're going to play
this dynamic, you know. So yeah, I think it's just acknowledging that we're all multiple people we have and it's OK. That's another thing I think that I got very much from this film and my experience is that some people have this notion that you have to be the same thing all the time. You can be the high-powered kick ass businessman by day and the little, you know, slave by
night. And that actually might balance you off better, you know, and I, I think it's not as uncommon and people, people will tend to want to think of you and what as one way. Like I previously thought about what a dominatrix was, but when you get to know them, because no, actually that's not not the case at all.
So I think people embracing the full spectrum of their feelings and emotions and the spectrums of who they can be or want to be in different situations, I think is also super healthy. Absolutely. I, you know, I feel like, you know, doing this docu series is just the simple fact that it's so cathartic people to be able to express themselves, you know, and they miss that when they suppress themselves in kink. You know, I saw a client the other day and, you know, he
wanted forced feminization. And we did the whole scene of forced feminization. And then afterwards, after the scene and after everything was done, he was just like, yeah, I'm done. You know, it's like he felt such shame and I said you should embrace your, your feminine side. And he's like, yeah, maybe next time I'm good. Or not or not.
You know, I've been thinking about shame a lot lately and, you know, when I think about some of the kinks that I liked, a lot of it was stuff that I had a little bit of shame about and that actually made it hotter. You know, I'm, I'm actually
sometimes worried about this. Like, I mean, there's an important, we have to recognize healthy shame and unhealthy shame, but sometimes it's fun to have like sort of these cultural things that you're supposed to be like this, this, that maybe and then break it. And it's OK to sort of. So no, I, I didn't really want you.
I mean, if he's come to you for a fortune, for a feminization thing, he's definitely been thinking about this, you know, but maybe he needs, let's get back to reality before he goes out the door. And I've heard that from a lot of Doms that they notice when the person's out the door, sometimes they'll give a slight insult or a slight like, oh, that was nothing kind of thing. It's almost like, like getting them ready to hit the world again.
So it's, you kind of have to ignore it and think of it as almost a compliment that you've done so well, you've taken this person. They, they have to sort of shake it off a little bit because they know the world isn't like that. So it, it, it's, it's, it's kind of fun to have these things, the, these things that we, I'm actually sometimes wondering what's going to happen if, you know, young people, especially in California, everybody's Poly, everybody's fluid, this fluid
that. And that's great. But I'm just wondering what, what kind of fun are they, What kind of kinks are they going to have? Let's pretend we're not fluid, but let's pretend we're not. I don't know. I guess we can always find our kinks, but it's like my favorite kinks are all stuff that I had to work through. It's too fun. It really is. And it's so fun to, you know, we have big lifestyle parties and, you know, just to I, I kind of try to gauge people to see really what they like.
And before I even ask them questions, just to see, you know, I'm not trying to be superficial, but you know, sometimes you can just look at a person and just know what they want, you know, it's so interesting. Well, you, you feel it. I mean you, you do. You have a vast amount of experience and obviously like I've sometimes they, you know, tell me like I know within 3 seconds of meeting somebody what the kinks are.
But that's just like if you were a, a doctor and someone coughs this way and twitches that way, you probably know exactly what the illness is going to be. Just it's experience. Yeah, you might be wrong, but I mean, you've got this all this experience when people cough this way and have this twitch, it's XYZ, you know, Oh well, once in a while it could be something else, but it's generally XYZ, you know, So I think that comes from experience, which is, you know,
which is cool. And also I think there you'll you'll attract a certain kind of clientele. You know, I'm I'm more, I'm more interacting with dominant dominatrix now than I did before. But frankly, you know, if I was in an event or whatever, I would be pleasant, but I wouldn't really be going up to you and going anything. If you look dominant, if you look submissive, then hi, you know, but now I'm different.
But so you're only, you're also going to, certain kinds of people are going to approach you as well. So I think that's half the battle, you know? Absolutely. So you said it. It was difficult to get people to actually talk about, you know, their kinks because, you know, again, it's so taboo. But you had a lot of success in talking to these people. So what were some of the fetishes that they had? Oh boy. Everything. Yeah, I mean, needles, rope, leather, stockings, you know,
impact you. I mean, this the the whole, I actually interviewed almost 300 people. I I didn't use everyone, but yeah, I mean, everybody's different. Everybody's got different kinks. The one thing I did discover that I thought was really interesting and I like to talk about a lot is that, and I think even kinky people sometimes make this this mistake, you know, you walk into a room and you see maybe 12 couples getting spanked
and looks exactly the same. You think, oh, OK, they obviously like it and you'll probably know, but I think a lot of people won't. I can guarantee every one of those having a completely unique experience. 1 might be fetishizing the sound of that smack. 11 might be fetishizing the the, the pain. Someone else might be a top, a dominant who's having his sub top him because he or she want just likes the sensation on her orgasma.
But it all looks the same. But sometimes they're even though you think, oh, they're fetishizing spanking. No one's could be fetishizing pleasure. Another one's sound and one's smell. One could be fetishizing switching a role for a moment to you know, this, the role it it's it's infinite. It truly is infinite. What people feel. I tend to boil it down to three things. It's my sort of view because, you know, universal theory, you know, in that moment there's something that they're
fetishizing. They're thinking about one thing, they're in a certain role in that moment where they're going to be this sadly a thing and they're craving a certain sensation. It's not always orgasmic. Sometimes it might be pain, satisfaction, pride, you know, a million other things, but it usually dials down to those through three things, you know, they're fetishizing. You know, something's in their mind that's like really is their
focus. They're feeling a certain role in that moment and they, they want at the end of the session be more than anything to feel like they've been a good boy and survived it or something. I mean, it's different for different people, but it's always seems to boil down to those three things. And that seems to work across
every every kink you know. Yeah, you know, interestingly enough too, when I've talked to people, because I really like to delve in the the psychological aspect of it, I ask a lot of people, you know, why do you think you want this? And a lot of them, they just don't even care, you know, they, they just, they want to feel and they want to do what they want and they really don't care what even got them to that point. So it's like, I all mean, just do it, you know?
Absolutely. Where do you see yourself at this point? Are you going to do another? Yeah, I'm working on a I'm working on A10 part television series now exploring sexuality and technology. I'm, I'm under agreement to, to write 24 different episode outlines and then the, the this, that this touch kink I did on my own nickel. So I had total creative control. When you take money from a broadcaster or someone else, they tend to want to a say in things.
So I'm developing the series. It may or may not go into production. I hope so, but I'm being paid to sort of develop it and I would like to keep going down there. I think it's endlessly fascinating.
I would love to do a whole thing just on latex fetishes, a whole thing just on rope, a whole thing on the Spanko community, a whole thing on, you know, this merge of sex tech and how it's how it's emerging different parts of the world and you know, the generational difference between young women. So you have no problem go buying 5 vibrators or, you know, my mother would be horrified. You know, it's like, you know, it's interesting cultural shifts as well.
There's there's a lot of really interesting subjects. For whatever reason, though, sex is always a little bit of a tough sell, you know, Which is funny because they use it to sell the stuff. But I don't know. It's one of those things that people like to watch in private, I guess. So it's just finding out and how it's going to go and how it packages up. But yeah, I'm going to keep making movie documentaries about kink and about human sexuality because that's what interests me
the most. It is. It's extremely interesting and. Like I said, it's it was really cool to watch honestly and so many I I just wouldn't even back and watch some of the clips because I thought, oh, this is so cool. So I'll have to I'm going to send the link and set it up when we broadcast this episode. That way people can go and watch it. Yeah, it's now available for video on demand. It's on Kinema, my main platform. It's going to be on Amazon and Apple shortly.
I prefer people using Kinema because it's the most direct route to the to the film maker. It's more of an indie platform where it goes on other platforms. And you'd be shocked to let you know Apple makes 10 bucks. You make $0.10 kind of thing. Yeah. But yeah, the price will be the same across the platforms. It's just that, yeah, it's it's incredible. The differences had the middleman and these how some of these platforms are, but you know, the trick is to be on all
of them. But yeah, I mean, I'll, I'll provide you with that that link. My goal from doing a lot of these podcasts is just to grow my mail list because A, to promote this existing project, B, for development for the series. I also categorize people depending on their interests and stories and keep in touch with them because, you know, it's more than just having a promotion of a film. It's also looking for people for the next series as well. Absolutely.
And I'll pass your information on to a few of my other podcaster friends and you know, we got to promote it I. I agree if you also. It's so great. Also, I don't know if you do or not, but if you have a particularly large group of people following your newsletter, you can set up a screen, your own screening where you talk or introduce it. I'm happy to join if you'd like. And you can do it for profit. It takes about 15 minutes to set up. You set your, you set your
ticket price. The kinema takes care of all the billing for you. All they do is send you money. It's remarkably easy to do. I've done a few of them now and I've done I've, yeah, it's, it's been really cool actually, and encouraging people because, you know, my mailing list, my, my group of people is so big. Everybody's going to know different people. You know, you sell 100 tickets,
you make a couple of grand. It was like, if you have that, you know, the depending on how big your audience is and, and how much you want to, that's another thing. If you want, you can set up your own screening and promote it and do it for profit, or you can just direct people to me and I'll send them information about future screenings wherever they are. That'd be super. Yeah. Right now we're in 157 countries, so we have a big fan base on it.
And, you know, people love to watch the videos. And, you know, we do a lot of I do things like call Torture Thursday and Fucked Up Friday or people just, you know, they want to take impact or, you know, penetration, anything like that that's kink related. And we do it and people love watching it. So that's why I was just, yeah, I was, I was happy to do the interview. And then that way we can again promote your your documentary because I think it's just fascinating.
Everything. Thank. You. Absolutely. Appreciate that. Yeah, go ahead. No, no, go right ahead. Tell. Me, I was just going to say, I mean, that's why I'm doing these podcasts. Just talking to people. It's like I, I don't have a big Hollywood promotional budget. So this is it. It's word of mouth. Well, you know, your documentary will speak for itself regardless. So, you know, it was very fascinating. I loved it.
But I look forward again to seeing more of your work and, and we'll, we'll catch up again in a few months and, and see where you're at with your following, you know, 24 part series. That's right. Well, it'll be 10 episodes. I have to come up with 24 stories, I guess. But yeah, yeah. OK, well, you can do it, Yeah. And if you're in Florida, you want to come film us anytime? Absolutely. Well, I'm, I'm usually in Florida twice a year, once for fetish factory and once for fetish Con.
So oh. Well, there you go. Yeah, I'm I'm super close to fetish con is only six hours from me so. Oh, there you go. Cool, cool. We'll have to meet up. Absolutely, Absolutely. All right. Thank you again, Max. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very. Much. Yeah, I was just going to say, and you know, you're the filmmaker of Touch Kink, so we got to promote. It thank you very. Much. All right, Thank you. Thank you. All right, listeners, thank you for listening.
This is Mistress Mia's tension. We're out.