Hi, welcome to the latest episode of Mistress Mia's Dungeon. I'm your Hostess, Mistress Mia, and you know, today I have a special guest. I have Kit Bond. That sounds so fucking perky, doesn't it? Only you. Only me. All right, So Kit, tell everyone, how long have you been in the lifestyle? What's your role? What do you identify as? So I've been involved since I would say winter of 2016.
So it's been a considerable amount of years and I identify as a sub leaning more into a slave with my primary partner. But there are certainly people that know me as a service top. OK, so we decided we're going to talk about four specific things. And I know a lot of our listeners, and I'll go ahead and say that 80% of our listeners are men.
And a lot of things they don't quite get into is the whole realization that they come to events and they're always afraid it's going to be a sausage party. So tell us about that. So I think that there's a few things, but I suppose we'll limit it to four things today, yes, that I feel are universally observed in every kink community. Of course, limiting that from an American perspective, I've never been to another kink community
in another country. But in America, there are some specific key issues that I think you can see in every party. One of the major ones is, is like you mentioned there is what I think are unrealistic expectations among the male population or male identifying population in kink party environments, OK. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that our kink has become more organized.
It's become a commercialized thing where people are seeking to generate revenue from hosting these parties. And the reality is in our environments, male presenting people are the dominant guests at these parties. They are the majority. Very much has to do with vanilla society. Those are just societal roles.
And the issue is that when that's the majority and you have commercialized kink, that's the clientele that you're attempting to appeal to. And a common complaint among your male guests in general at your average party is that they felt like it was a sausage fest in their words.
And that just happens when there's not enough women, or I suppose single women or passable trans women in their own words, exist at this party and are floating around that are readily available for any potential play. And this is unfair. This is unfair to the organizer.
It's unfair to women that are just attempting to be in a kink space and have a good time because the onus of the entertainment is placed on everyone but the men who are griping about it. They don't realize that women are the minority because a lot of them are really uncomfortable coming out as kinky. And you know it comes from a lifetime being slut shamed I believe.
So that is a common problem. You will see at every party that it's it's a lot of men you get RSVP ING, it's a lot of men that you get showing up and there's nothing wrong with men. Most of my friends are men. I enjoy hanging out with men. They're great. They're wonderful to hang out with. But it's very unfair if you're trying to organize something nice for people and they don't want to return because they feel like, well, it's just it's all men, and that's not what I'm here for.
So the Griswolds went to a recent party and when they walked in to this event, they walked towards the back where they had an indoor pool and there was three single guys just there in the room by the pool by themselves naked. One guy was literally letting his Dick hang off the side of the pool into the water. And her husband, Ellen's husband, said, hey, Ellen, why don't you go over and, you know, just make a move? You know, I'm sure he puts the shit out there. You know, he wants to get
fucked. And she's like, I want to chase. I want somebody to, you know, romance me a little bit, you know, something, right? But I think a lot of these guys are so open, and they have that expectation. Like you said, they automatically assume that everybody is willing to want to have sex at certain events. And that's why my number one rule on my board is not everyone wants to fuck you. Yeah. You know, yeah, it's a good rule to have and you really don't see
that a lot. In a lot of dungeons. They usually have a rule about how safe word and not touching things that aren't theirs. That was actually refreshing to see that as one of the number one. I'm glad. I'm glad you like that. No, that I think that's good. I've been to quite a few dungeons around the US and that that's pretty.
That's pretty novel, yeah. You have that a lot of people are kind of taken aback by it because they read it and they laugh at it and they kind of reflect for a second and then they realize, oh, but you know, I've had men come up to me and they're like, Mia, I don't get it. Why? Why am I not with somebody? Like, why won't somebody fuck me? And I'm like, because you look like dog shit. You know, I know I said 4 main issues, but that brings me to 1/5. OK, there you go.
Yeah. You know, because that's interesting. I think I observed this just about everywhere. The the other. The other problem that you probably notice in most communities in these spaces is that there is implicit consent. I'm not agreeing with that. I'm saying the mindset of people who have voiced apprehension about going to another party or have voiced dissatisfaction with that party have gone in with the mindset that I'm here, you're here, we're all down to play,
we're all down to fuck. That's what they think. There is this air of if you're here, there's implicit consent performer, get the fuck out. Yeah, and that's everywhere. Yeah, and it's crazy. It's crazy to think. That it leaves you dissatisfied. It leaves you to because it's an
instant gratification approach. Now, I will say that years ago we had this one woman and I don't know if you'd met her at this point, but but she comes out like a big fucking gorilla and she says, I don't get it, why can't I get laid? And I'm liking Whoa, maybe because of your personality. Yeah, yeah, some people with their own worst enemy in that regard. I'm sorry you're trying to be very professional with this and I really appreciate that.
I just, you know me, I sometimes I have, you know, zero class. Yeah, it's all right. We all know it's. Funny, we all know fucking. Sorry I'm just a little too sober I guess. I don't think I have any alcohol in my mini fridge today, but next time we're going to break out the wine for sure. All right, so tell us your next dilemma. OK, so this goes back to the idea that we've now become kind of a consumer society when it
comes to kink. You know, parties are like, you know, Burger King. You want it your way. You want to go in, get it fast, leave somewhat satisfied and hope to God that you don't purge everything you consumed. Right. So gonna throw up. Yeah. It's become commercialized, and it has eroded intimacy. And what leads us to to an that leads us to another problem. The problem is that you have a seemingly universal issue with clicks. They exist. They're everywhere.
Yes, they're in the vanilla world. Yes. You know, you will not get rid of them. It's a totally human thing to happen. But it's a problem in so far as we're constantly telling people in the kink community we're open, we're welcoming, you're her fellow weirdo. You can be weird with us and it's safe. It's a safe space. But what people don't seem to realize is that clicks actually erode the safe space
environment. What will commonly happen is a click will come in and the vibe in the environment has changed, at least on some level. Yeah, there's a shift. Right. Yeah, There's some sort of shift because now you feel like, you know, there's a click in a specific area. I feel like I can't be there. Yeah. You know, at risk of being accused of being in crouching on their space or being in crouching on even their person. Really.
It changes the dynamic. If you and this click have a mutual friend, sometimes it could change your decision of whether or not you want to play at all, because this click is now there gawking at you and you don't feel safe. You don't want to play under those conditions.
So I think it's a problem. I think that if we're going to embrace that we are a community of weirdos wherever in the US we may be, if we're a community of weirdos, we need to make more of an effort to break out of our cliques, break out of our comfort zone the same way we do with weapons of ass destruction. Yeah, You know, we break out of our comfort for that. Just. Go and say hi to someone you
don't know and you know. Try to be approachable and try to have a meaningful conversation with people. Sticking to your same clique is not going to do anything but make other people around you feel uncomfortable. Yeah. You know, you and I had this discussion, I told you when I went to Europe and I went to this dungeon and it was more or less, you know, it looked like an old Chinese restaurant. And they had the buffet in the
corner. And I'm thinking, oh, dim sum and somebody's getting beat over there. Man, we're just such hungry bitches. I'm telling you, you're hungry bitches. But, you know, it was funny because, you know, I brought my husband in on a leash and he was dressed as a GIMP, you know, couldn't see his face, you know, sexy motherfucker with his ass hanging out. Cute ass.
Anyway, people were staring and nobody came up and like, you know, welcomed us. And I thought, well, you know, they don't know us. We're new. You could tell we're really not very European looking. I don't know. But it was just really weird. And then what was funny is they had all the single guys dress in black bikinis and all these guys are walking around in like the bathhouse section where you can literally walk through and play
in certain rooms. And they're just like rubbing their Dicks and staring at me. And I'm like, God have mercy, I don't speak Dutch right now motherfucker, but quit staring at me. Yeah. But it is, it's weird. Nobody wants that vibe of this, this being the odd man out, you know? And that's why I always tell everybody, you know, you come to a party. I don't want the fucking clicks, you know? Yeah, there's another organizer here too that feels the same way.
He's he feels like, you know, he wants to bust up clicks. It's it's time to just, you know, if you're going to be, you know, presenting as this welcoming part of a community, then do it. If you want to be, you know, an exclusive group of people, fine. That's cool, too. But then don't portray yourself as though you're a welcoming member of a community that embraces other fellow weirdos. Absolutely. Why? Why be duplicitous like that? What is the end goal?
And I mean, that just goes back to, like I said, the commercialization of kink has eroded intimacy. And because that intimacy is eroded, this kind of this awkwardness, no one wants to admit it. No one wants to admit these parties are awkward. Yeah, they're awkward because you don't want to be stared at while someone's touching themselves. OK, that's just not what you came there. For it's. Not it's not now if you knew the person, maybe you might have been comfortable with it.
Maybe you know, but it's these parties are no longer invite only parties among people that you know that know each other and are comfortable with each other. They're now, you know, hey in, you know, RSVP here, pay your cash at the door, show up, whatever. And that's fine. There's nothing wrong with those kind of parties, but it does create less of an intimate, more of an awkward situation that causes people to click up because they don't feel safe in an awkward environment.
They feel like, OK, this is an unknown. I don't understand what's going on. I don't know these people, I don't know what's going to happen. But I feel better with my buddy here. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's a totally normal human response. There's nothing inherently evil about clicks. It's just it's a self eating snake. At some point the wheel has to be broken. So yeah, I do think commercialization of kink is kind of at the root of that. I'm with you.
So what's the next topic? So still speaking about commercialization of kink here, it does lead us to another problem and that is so going back to commercialization of kink as as something that has brought on a special subset of problems. As I said before, men are the majority, you know, for good or bad, indifferent. It doesn't matter. The fact is they're the majority. And that brings about the issue
of women being a minority. So it goes without saying that in most kink communities, you'll probably observe the issue that, you know, a single woman walks in. What's the first thing most people do in these communities? They turn around and just like I want to hound them. Right. Yeah. Yeah, that happens everywhere. Fresh meat. Right. There's a specific reason why that is. It's because, you know, a lot of women that come into this are coming in with a partner already. That's very common.
It's common for people to come in as a couple or even already as an established closed polycule. That's common. It's very uncommon to see a single woman who has made the decision to go from vanilla to kink and to do this entirely alone. It's quite uncommon. And what people are thinking is, oh, she's new, there's some good opportunity here for play. She's unpartnered, so I won't have any barriers of accessing her. See, because that's the real problem. The problem is not anyone's
partnered. The problem is that their partner is probably in a closed dynamic with them. And that's common as well. So when they see that there's a single woman, single women get certain privileges. They do. We see it all the time. When you see an event online, sometimes you see gendered pricing that goes back to men don't want a sausage fest at the parties, so they incentivize women going in there. They charge them less to get in. Some of them even get in for
free. So they have agree with that. No, I, I don't agree with gendered pricing at all. Yeah. I don't. Either No, because I think that it creates a situation where a woman is a commodity. Yeah, and not a person. You can be a single woman, go into a party and play with no one. You could be an asexual single woman, go into a party and play with no one. Yeah, I've heard of some of our trans friends even be questioned, you know, what they identify as and what they are
genetically. And it's like, why is it anyone's business? Right, right. That is a problem from an organizer's standpoint. You know, a lot of people consult me about how to start their groups, their parties, things like this. So I do, I do fill a lot of advisor roles around the United States. And so a lot of their their problem is I want to do gender pricing. OK, Why? Well, because we have too many men around here, and I would just want to make sure there's a
good mix of women. OK, that's noble enough. You want to make sure it's a pretty mixed up group. There's nothing wrong with that. What are you going to do when you get a trans person show up? Go. They can't answer me. Exactly. They can't answer me, I said. You're definitely not going to be asking them their gender and arguing with them about which gender they look like. Yeah, it's insulting. It's not going to fly. No, it's insulting.
And honestly to me, if a man wants to go to a party, he's going to pay, you know, 45. He's going to pay 95. I've even seen them, seen the prices, 1:50 to get into some of these parties. And I mean, that's the level of insanity. I don't think that, yeah, I don't think that that's very fair. I don't think it's fair. At all, Yeah, no, there should not be a tax simply for being a man.
And it also doesn't even, it doesn't even fulfill your desire to have the kind of interactions you want with your people either, because just because he's showing up as a man doesn't mean he's not gay. Yeah, he may just want to play with other men. Absolutely. Same thing with the single woman that walks up. Maybe she's lesbian and she doesn't want to play with any of your male guests. Exactly. It's a Yeah, it's pretty silly, right? I'm with you on that. It's so silly.
Just from an organizer perspective, it's a nightmare, yeah, to do gendered pricing. Yeah, it is. So a single woman is assumed to be sis and heterosexual and completely open to playing with other people. So with those assumptions in mind, we have a problem where there are some women who figure this out. They know what they are and they abuse the system. What I mean is the kind of things that your average man would do, this single woman gets a pass because she's a
commodity. She's needed at the parties. Of course, we don't want a sausage fest, right? We want people to keep paying at the door. And they're not gonna pay at the door unless they feel entertained. And they're not entertained when it's all men. Absolutely. So you give them a pass. Oh, well, you know, she's, she's this, she's that. It doesn't matter.
It does not matter. And the same goes for people that know a special skill like rigging or needlework or fire playing or anything else that's flashy and interesting to look at. They're given a pass because it's part of the entertainment package. That's wrong. And that is a problem in every community because now the commercialization of kink is about turning it from an intimate situation to a circus.
And it's a problem. But it's, like I said, the biggest problem is that there are women that take advantage of the system and they think I can get away with anything I want to because I'm a single woman and no one's going to ban me. I'll be fucking damned. Oh. I've banned some bitches, right? Yeah, but. Because you know, you're more egalitarian when it, when you look at this kind of thing, because you realize you're not worth the trouble, not with the trouble.
You cannot just come here and violate people. You cannot just come here and hit people. You can't just come here and tell. People off and get drunk and cause scenes. Get drunk. Cause scenes, you can't just, you can't have edge play scenes and be unsafe about it. You cannot do that just because of your gender and just because you think you're special A. Lot of special people. There are no and yeah, that whole entitlement thing that goes across all gender identities, that's not even it.
But as it stands, organizers have an assumption. The assumption is you look like a woman, you're probably sis header a woman. You look single because you don't have a man on your arm. You're probably going to come in here and be entertaining to my guests. You have some liberties that other, my other guests do not have. I've seen it time and time
again. There's horror stories out there about how there's like, there's women that will not, they cannot be banned at all because of what they do, because of who they are, because of the people they bring. It's annoying, it's ridiculous. So yes, that is a big problem.
I do think the whole concept when you say sausage fest is, you know, I've, I have advertised so much like on singles groups on Facebook, you know, and it's always the guys, they'll write me, oh, hey, I want to know more information, you know, and I've had some women, Oh yeah, I want to know more information. But overall, women are on there. They comment nasty like, oh, this is disgusting, you know, adult party. Oh, it's disgusting.
You know, I think there's so many fucking rigid bitches, like they need to let go the pussy, you know? You might, yeah. You might find it interesting to note there is research that has proven that women are far more judgmental. So judgmental. Particularly of each other. Yeah, particularly I would almost venture a, a, a bet with you here.
I would almost propose a bet that women who get into organizing kink have a harder time than men they do because they're scrutinized a little more heavier by the minority of the group that they apparently require for success. It's it's an uphill battle for women when they're. Organizing, to be fair. It's an uphill battle for men who are organizing as well, but for a different reason. It's assumed that, well, he's a creep. I'm not going to go to some creep's house, but I don't know.
It's. True. It's assumed that again, going back to this whole oh, she's a woman, so she has, you know, she could do no harm. You're assumed that if you're a female organizer or a woman presenting organizer, you could do no harm. You're harmless. What are you gonna do? You're not a creep. You can't be a creep. You're a woman. So where do we go from here? So there is another one that I think is worth talking about, a really interesting situation in kink communities and what has
made it noteworthy among. If you read legal literature or if you talk to any attorney that even knows of the BDSM world, they will comment on how interesting this setting is. And what makes it very interesting is that there is a self policing element of it. And So what goes along with that is certain protocols of safety. Many people for the term vetting, you know, you vet people coming to your party, you vet people you want to play with it.
It's just this whole thing because you don't know who's coming to your door. You don't know what their what their intent is. All you know is they have told on themselves that they have some sick and twisted interests. That's all you know. So we have kind of an A built in security system. In most community dynamics, there is propensity to ask for references.
For instance, these references ordinarily are people you've played with or people you're friends with, sometimes even organizers themselves that have had no problem with you. You've gone to their events for years or months and you know someone asks you. Do you have any references when you're considering playing with them? Ordinarily, and I laugh every time I hear this because nobody realizes that it's security theatre. I mean, we do this even in the vanilla world.
An employer asks for references who you're going to give the manager that didn't like you or you're going to ask your Co worker that was your friend. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, you get to pick and choose your references. Every one of us can find at least three people that likes us. It doesn't mean anything. It mean it says nothing about you It says that you found three people that like you and can say something relatively decent about you. Very true.
It doesn't mean anything sure there's people that said some nice things about Ted Bundy and Charles Manson. He. Was very charming and good looking. Yeah, smart. Right. See boom boom boom. And that made him trustworthy. He's probably your great driver. I'm sure he was. I'm sure he was a great day, too. Oh, yeah. Interesting to talk to, right? You know, you're a goal. Well, you know they're lost. And I know they're lost.
Yeah, no. Just because somebody's interesting or charismatic or, you know, they come off as warm and friendly, it really does not mean. But this is not a person that will act in the moment. A lot of the crimes we see in the BDSM community are what's called crimes of opportunity. That's that goes along with rape. Rape is described as a crime of opportunity. That's very true. Because you wouldn't rape someone in the middle of, you know you're going to a theme park with them, right?
It's not really a good opportunity. You're not just going to pull it out right in front of Goofy, right? You're not. Now, if you find them passed out on the couch drunk or high and they're not really dressed or it's very easy to get them out of their clothes, sure, that's a, you know, to some people that's a good opportunity. These opportunities vary. So when these crimes of opportunity in mind, we have a lot of crimes of opportunity that happen here.
You know, you may accidentally find out somebody's legal name because somebody spoke freely and didn't think that there was anyone around to hear it. You, the wrong person, hears your name, decides to investigate a little bit, finds out a little bit about you and starts some problems for you or attempts to blackmail you. That's a crime of opportunity. But you never would have gotten that out of interviewing them or talking to their references because no ones ever seen them
do that before. It's it's a crime of opportunity. It comes at the opportune moment. So what is the best time you think a way to vet them better or do you even? Believe in it. So I'm actually. Vetting system is overrated. That's a great question. Yeah, I actually really appreciate that question. So I'm writing a book on vetting.
OK. And in the premise of it, in the very beginning, I do caution this is an opinion that if you read this book and you walk away feeling as though you have not gained anything reading this book, congratulations. I've proven my point right. You gained nothing. Yeah, You gained nothing. And the reason why is because there really is no solid way to vet someone. Thank you. I agree. There's not. You know, we had this lovely couple. I've known them for a couple
years. They were attending many of the vents and you know, it was probably into maybe their 10th event that they had came to. And you know, I'd seen them before they, you know, they'd bring their their wine or something. They'd get a little tipsy, nothing crazy still, you know, very lucid, fun, easygoing
people. And something triggered him at some point, the husband in this situation, he thought it's going to be cool just to helicopter my Dick and start touching people with my Dick. You remember this. So it's like, and then they wonder why were they banned? You know, my thing of it is, you know, one of my number what 4 on my rules is don't get drunk and fucked up. You know, it's one thing you want to get a little drunk, but don't get so fucked up that you're going to be stupid and
rubbing your Dick on people. Nobody wants that, you know. So if they do, they'll let you know. Yeah, you know. They'll let you know. They'll let you know. There was plenty of women that night who would have like, oh, sure, rub your Dick on me. But yeah, it's that kind of shit that we deal with, you know, as event organizers, you know? Yeah. I mean, it's, it's kind of a it's it's a joke to me. It's a joke. You know, you're writing a book
on vetting. You know, I advise a bunch of freaking people on organization procedures, vetting, risk management. It's a joke because they can't, they all you're selling to them is a false sense of control. You can't control another person's actions. All you could do is control how you react.
Yeah, OK. All we can do, you know, I think it's, it's equally noteworthy to mention because it's kind of funny that when somebody speaks I'll of another dungeon, typically they'll say, well, that's that place isn't safe. This happened. That didn't happen. Oh yeah, it's not safe. Yeah. Does that sound familiar? Yeah, it sounds familiar. Yeah, sure they say that, neglecting the fact that they have the same problem. Yeah, every. Because everybody has the same. Problem.
They have the same problem because some shit happened over there too. Yeah. Why? Because they didn't see it coming. Yeah, like you. They said it's all in their own opportunity. They were friendly, they presented well, they they got along with everyone you know, up until they didn't. Yeah, because shit happens. Shit happens.
Yeah. You don't know what their frame of mind is. I mean, it's it's a joke to think that you are able to see the future of what someone will do. And under so many, infinitely many circumstances, you can't. You can't. I'm fairly intelligent, you know, I'd say I'm pretty normal, you know, in terms of behavior. You know, I laugh at the unfunny jokes that you want me to laugh at. I shut up when I know you want me to shut up. You know, whip my genitalia out and touch people, OK?
Big pussy, right So. Big. It's hanging off the side of the freaking. Pool people with people, yeah. Hanging off the edge of the pool, waiting for it to be touched, right? Sure. No, I mean, I'd say I'm pretty normal, but something happened. Something happened and it made me fucking snap. Yeah. Somebody kept stalking me, harassing me, being there, clicked to harass me, and then mocked my damn sexual assault online. You saw a different side of me. Yeah, absolutely. I'm sorry.
Anyone would lose their fucking mind when they get a certain red, like a certain like limitation pushed, like you say, red. And it just doesn't stop, you know, So you don't know what the person's going to do. You don't understand the circumstances that will bring them to it. And you know, your perspective of whether or not they're safe is laughable because anybody can be pushed to a certain point. And I think, again, I think
we're so imperfect as people. We are, we, you know, we make mistakes, we say things and do things a lot of times that might not be the best, might not be protocol, but you know, what do you do, right? You know, but to be shunned for it continuously over and over again, right? It's relentlessly stupid. That is another problem that you'll see in every community. There are communities right now, yeah, that are blowing up over one scandal or another.
They're blowing up. They want people to be banned over this, that or the other. And they trip over themselves over the right reasoning. They trip over themselves over the length of time they trip over themselves about what kind of sanctions. Should it be a ban? Should it be suspension? Should it just be just write 1000 word essay online You know what should it be? They are struggling because of that self policing nature that communities have. We don't know what to do.
Nobody wants to go to the damn police talking about how you're at a BDSM event where you know Dave over there swinging his Dick around and it touched you right? Like no one wants to. Do this. OK. And the police and other authorities really don't even know how to respond. They can't intervene. They're not mediators, law enforcers. It is not against the law to offend someone. It's not against the law to piss
someone off. And the problem is that when something does happen, they immediately go to his boom band. Yeah, done. Dare you be imperfect. How dare you let that level of impropriety into my safe space. Yeah, you know, it's kind of like I said, like the couple that I had to ban, I really didn't ban the wife, I banned the husband. But the simple fact of it is it wasn't the first time, you know, he'd gotten drunk before, you know, and it's kind of a repeated offense.
And then it's finally, it's just like, you push me to the limit, Okay? This is where it yeah, this is where I draw the line. But, you know, I've heard in other communities there's always something, you know, I and this is again, why I think people take BDSM and community so fucking serious, you know, and they take things so literal, you know, it's like there's no exceptions to the rule, you know, it's, it's a little crazy to me, honestly.
It's. You know, I do believe that there should be consequences for action. So I'm a firm believer. Absolutely. Yeah. If karma doesn't get you and the law doesn't get you, yeah, I'm gonna fucking get you. That's how I feel. You're not going to violate me in such a capacity that you practically flaunt it as a badge of honor. Yeah. I'm sorry. That's how I am. I'm not at that point in my life where I have zero respect for
myself. Yeah, OK. And I don't think anyone should. I think you should stand up for yourself. I think you have every right to defend yourself. I think you have a right to have a voice in the matter. And that's not what happens in communities. What ends up happening in communities is that it's like it's just mob rule. Whoever's the most popular is the story that they believe. It's the side they believe. And whatever that person wants
is pretty much what goes. What's annoying to me is, you know, being on the Gulf Coast and there's only so many main groups and, you know, we've been told by different groups, it's like, well, if she was vetted with this group and they're good with her, then we're good with her. And you know, if we've had problems with her in this group, then we're definitely going to have problems with her in this group. So we she can't be accepted in this group. It's like, Oh my God, what is
this? So that's actually really, that's a good point you bring up. Yeah. I mean, like I said, there's there's numerous problems that are universal in communities. Yeah, we could not just limit this to four. No. And you know what, it's for another day. But you know, overall and it's I think a lot of times people are power hungry. Yeah. I think they take there needs to be some give. And I think that, yeah, there's too much of A power struggle over a lot of stupid shit.
And a lot of it is political. Oh. Definitely. A lot of it is OK. I understand we're all imperfect. I admit that. I admit my enemy is imperfect and I can give some concessions with that. Sure. However, they're particular imperfection. So in this situation, when there's, like you said, there's no refutable information, you've we've sat down and we've talked or talked to people and these groups or whatever they're, they're non yielding about anything. You know, nothing.
But here's my thing, you are more than willing to be receptive to admit where you made mistakes. And it's not like it was big monumental mistakes in the two people I've banned this year. They both have come to me in an e-mail or text message and they've been completely oblivious, like, oh, what did I possibly do? What did I possibly do to deserve this? And it's like, were you too drunk to remember? Do we need to go back and talk about it?
My thing of it is they had sober people with them. They remembered what they they did, but when the they don't want to take any responsibility for their actions. I think that's where you and I have always had problems, where people have not been admitting or been humbled by their experience of what they've done. Wrong. And sometimes you'll run into that because you know we'll have difference of opinion. You know your level of of imperfection of mine, you. And I've been on the same page.
No, no. But I mean you general, Sorry. What I mean is we will always disagree on, you know, this is another problem too. Communities need to get together and talk about what is absolutely not permissible and what can be, you know, debated, given on a case by case basis.
The problem comes in when you don't communicate those expectations among people that are involved in your community and they need to have more town hall meetings about this because some people just don't know and some people don't understand, you know, what is the general consensus of what their community wants. Do we really want a 0 defect mentality in our communities? I would I would say not.
I think the average person would not want to be permanently banned for every little infraction they could have ever committed. But you know there are people that will not see your perspective no matter what. No, very true. They will simply say that what you did is unforgivable. It is never. It's never OK. I don't care what led up to it.
I don't care what the intent is. I don't care what the fuck you have to say about it. Yeah, it's the fact that it happened, Period. Now, in some cases, that works. Like rape. That works because it doesn't matter like what she said to you or what he led you to believe or what you know, what relations you had with them at all. Rape is never permissible at all. I do believe permanent bans should be in place for things like rape, but for literally just about anything else it
really is a case by case basis. Absolutely. You know, that's just my opinion on it. It's, I don't believe in permanent bans generally. I don't believe it. Yeah. I think that people can learn a lot from taking a significant amount of time of way. Absolutely. And things can be forgivable, right? Yeah, and I think that they need to do better. The people in the communities around the US need to do better to understand the perspectives on all sides. And they don't. They don't.
What they'll typically do is they'll listen to their friends and people they find credible. I mean, that's that's cherry picking. Yeah. That's not a good investigation. Communities love to tell you we invest, investigate claims, we investigate. They don't. What they do is they hear from their friends and people they consider credible. This goes back to vetting. Just because you think they're
credible doesn't mean they are. I want to hear about some of the stories in Europe and what they have to deal with in vetting. Yeah, and dungeons and organizations too. What I've seen people in the UK are very similar as in the US, they have similar problems in the way they handle things. Yeah, just from my friends in the UK, they they describe the same. It's really, I believe that I've heard the same thing as well. Well, I think we need to leave
it at that. People need to listen to us on their lunch breaks. Sure. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for coming in so we can chit chat and figure some stuff out, put our little pieces of opinion out there. All right. Well, thanks for joining us. Yeah. And until then, may all your fantasies become realities.