Call It Different Stages

Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington, an iHeartRadio podcast.

Well, hello, Hello, Hello, Hello Call It crew, and welcome to another episode of Call It What It Is.

Holy moly, I know there's a little pause here.

We're talking about friendship breakups, a popular demand. I'm not a very popular but demand. Yeah, absolutely, people want to talk about it. I actually saw it as a sign of real trust because this one is something that actually, you know how like all the teenagers these days, if you if they offend you, at least mine when they offend you. When they offend you, they follow it up with like, it's not that deep, and you're like, actually,

They are so jess Yeah, So this is a lot of the College crew that've been writing us to talk with us.

We've talked, we've kind of.

Glossed over it a little bit before this is our deep dive into it. And so I spent you know, the past couple of days just too, we've been really researching it.

We've been reading a lot of material on it and kind of all.

Over the place, like for different different outlets with different perspectives, because I think it's sort of although I got to say, they all say the same thing.

They do, but reading it, I was like shocked by some of the statistics and not shocked, but you know, like, oh, I can relate to some things that they're saying in it. And before we get into our personal stories, I think we talk about what, yeah, what people are saying out there in the world when they're writing about this.

Well, I mean, I think that the one that kind of took up both of our breath away was that according to a Forbes article, the research shows that up to seventy percent of close friendships and fifty two percent of our social networks, so multiple friends dissolve after seven years.

That was really shocking to me. We hear about the seven year itch right with.

Relationship or partnership?

Yeah, seven years to me for a friendship. By the way, we're going on basically double high five to us, because like I mean, before Jess and I had this conversation before she got on, and I was like, I need you to understand, like you're never losing me. Like even if you do a Capshaw ghosting, it's like I'll be there like a stalker.

Like you're gonna have to it's not a ghost this is a moonwalk. It's an elegant but it's not gonna work on me. No, I'm not shaking you.

I won't take any hint. And it's like you are stuck with me for life.

I'm a lifer. Yeah, I love it, I'll take it for life. But seven years. I think there's a reason for that. Why because I think seven years is usually

I think what's hard is that you expect friendships to grow with you and do the jumps with you, and finding out that they don't is really shocking. There's no friendship like especially when they feel like a sister's you know, like really deep. There's no ticking time clock on it, like potentially a romantic relationship.

Plus in order for you to be in real relationship like the kind of friendships that we're talking about and that we see in movies and film and books, it is total surrender, right like you really truly just like in romance, and in a romantic relationship, you give your

Yes, Like you are being so vulnerable with that, with that kind of friend, and you are sort of like handing them your secrets and then but you assume that like they're going to hold them with you forever, and then they're not in your world anymore, and they're walking out in the world with like.

A piece of you, is what it feels like.

That's exactly right. The trust is so huge. Yes.

So I was also reading Wondermind, which is Selena Gumus's amazing, incredible website. Wonderminded a whole article on this, and one of the things I talked about that I thought was

I mean obviously you have, but yes, I'll talk about one or a handful, more than a handful, to be.

Honest, There's only one that really really sticks out because I feel like the others sort of felt like a seven year and then the other friendships that I've had have lasted, right, I've been very lucky, Like my best friend since high school, I literally text her yesterday. My other best friends since high school, like we're still in contact.

Lived together, we worked together.

And the truth is basically she ended up dating a guy that you know about a year into their relationship did something that was you know, a little shady and or a lot shady, depending on who you talk to, And it wasn't at all. Yes, he did something that was not good, really not good. And did she tell you about it or did you find out about it? I found out about it. I was able to find out about it through do you know or were you

Oh that's actually that's worse.

Yeah and so and by the way, like he was just not my vibe anyway I would describe him.

I've described him before as.

He's a little he was a little Biffy from Back to the Future. If you don't know Biff, yeah, you gotta research or people.

I thought that there was only one Biff. There is.

No Some people give off a little bit of a biff vibe, and he was a little biffy.

I don't want to judge, but what person goes walks towards a biff You only walk away?

Well, listen to moonwalk.

You can flat out run listen, listen. Okay, Okay, I like in the biff vibe. I don't know.

He was not my style. He was not he was not my He didn't give me good vibes. And especially after something happens. I think as a girl, you know, like if you're romantically voters on and you can like move on. But the girl, I'm the kind of a girlfriend that like, I sit back and I'm just I'm not gonna lean all the way in. I'm gonna make sure wait to make sure that you're like gonna have my girl right Like, I'm not giving it all to you. It's gonna take me really long time. I'm sagittarius. It's

By the way, this is a good segue too, really quickly.

Like no, I was like, I was, I know exactly what you're talking about. And my feet were fully planted. I'm like, if you're going to talk to her, like if this is going to go down, I'm also going to be stood right here just to be you.

Know, an HR witness to this basically.

And then it's like cracking your knuckles, just waiting waiting. You were like I got.

This, No I was.

I was like, unless you give me the sign, which you did. It was very obvious, like I need you to scram I was not scramming. There's no scramming. Listen, I'm gonna stay right. So anyway, so this guy and to be honest, they're still together. They're you know, I know, they listen married, they are they're married, and they married to.

Biff Listen, maybe this. Maybe the biff was a stage.

Maybe he's you know, it's all turned around. It was giving me biff vibes back then.

Okay, okay, okay, So.

Me and her, this is not just me being crazy like your mutual friends of hers confide. But one night me and her guy, her boyfriend at the time, had gotten into an argument, a big argument, and it really killed it. It was just the friendship was sort of done because she had to pick.

I mean, a better question would be, did it feel like she had to pick after you guys got into the fight.

I mean, I guess that's a question for her.

I think what's hard from like the my end of the situation, I think this happens all the time.

If you have if you're if your bestie is married or.

With someone that you're like about, you kind of inherit the guy or the girl right like you inherit the person, and then it can it can be sticky. And so I don't know if she felt like she had to choose.

Maybe she did.

And it's and and by the way, it's kind of insulting when you're like, ah, this is like a two year or three year We've been best friends for like a decade, like what are you doing? But again I do think that, like romantic relationships often win out over a friendship, which is also like sometimes jarring. But it's my experience. I wouldn't have made her pick. The truth is it would have been hard for her because I

No?

I thought it was rude. I thought it was kind of a jerk, you know.

Yeah, And you can't when you when you can't be honest with someone who you are intimate with and like again, has all your secrets, knows where all your bodies are? Yeah, where all the bodies are buried? You you really, I think, and be friends in that same way, you know, I mean, like you and I can be very honest with each other.

Like, yes, I'm gonna give an example. Oh no, this is Is it me being honest or you being honest? No, there's so many This is how honest?

But I love that.

I mean, this is one of the things I really treasure about us and hopefully you guys can hear it on this podcast. We like to be really, really honest with each other is something that we both really appreciated about each other, and it comes from a place of like, I have your back, I love you. You're like you know everything.

I mean you didn't say.

That, but that's that's some of the vibe, right, And I was like, cool, what do I do? And You're like, wow, I got this charcoal shampoo thing that I use and we got to figure that out. And I so appreciate it because some people would have looked at my garbage hair and not.

Said anything, yeah a little Oscar, little Oscar the grouch hair, and not said anything.

And I would have just been sitting there like a moron, drinking my coffee, being like the birds that sound cute, but I.

Appreciate I appreciate that kind of honesty. I didn't point it out without having a solution. I mean that's also something, right.

I mean, I still want you to point it out and just be like, we'll do some googling. But like, but you know what, not every friendship is like that. Can you could you have told other friends of yours that their hair looks like green? You gotta figure it out?

No? No, not many, not many, not many? But you know what, that actually okay because so here's another thing that I was really thinking about when we were thinking about friendships. It's funny how we all socialize. But when we're in school, like elementary school and middle school, even college, we become it seems like we have a natural drift

I also, I mean I have to say, yes, we were part we were part of a bigger, you know, group, but it's also still work. It wasn't like a you know, I wouldn't consider that like a big friend group. There's an element of family dynamic there. But the two of us were for sure, you know, it was like that

Yeah. See, I don't like that. That's what I don't like. I don't like that. I think that that is bullshit and it's not fun for me, and I don't like it. And it's funny. I actually I don't think i've ever said this to you before.

I get low key jealous.

Like I'm with if I'm with like if I'm with you, not jealous in a destructive way, but like you and I do a lot of stuff. Or we'll go out into the world and like we'll go to a conference or we'll go to a event or whatever whatever, and there'll be lots of people and I'm fine with that for a while, and then I'm like, okay, let needs to leave.

I'm the same way.

My social battery gets drained to zero, and I'm like, totally I need everyone else to leave.

Okay, but I'm okay. This is why we're actually a terrible combination because there's a time. There was a time when Jess and I were supposed to go do something together and it was like a business situation, right, and we're sitting in this hotel room. I'm not gonna say where because it'll out that like the situation.

And I was like, maybe we don't go. Maybe it's just we stay here and we go to dinner, and that's sort of the business situation we do.

So yes, I my social body is not even I don't know if it's ever on.

So when your dies, I'm like, yes, it's dead. Thank god, we're gone home.

Yes, but those are But that's the That's the thing I think is so important about successful friendships, which would be the opposite of having to break up with someone. It's like you have little contracts, little agreements that you make with each other in friendship where you're like, okay, I can handle being out at this thing for I think I'm good for you know, a couple hours, and then I'm gonna look at you with like large eyeballs and be like I gotta go.

Yeah, well that's when I also, that's what I do appreciate about someone like you in my life is that it's not even eyeballs.

It's like we will just turn to each other like I'm done, Yeah, let's go.

Do you know what I mean?

There's no woods like I'm over it. There's another article too that I want to talk about. It says friendship breakups are incredibly common and normal and inevitable, but we often personalize it and see it as a failure because it is so unexpected and because it's so uncommonly spoken about. And I think that's true.

I think it.

Does feel like extremely shocking when a friendship ends and then it's your I think there's like a sense of self that you're like, wait, what, like that person was part of me?

Yeah?

Do you know what I mean? Like it's it's an identity crisis almost, I was gonna say.

Because it also feels like a reflection on you, because if the relationship isn't successful, then it might be in part to you as well.

Have you had that seven year that's like you think it's a ride or die and that it's ended.

Yeah, yeah, was it shocking to.

You or did you?

Were you okay to like let it go?

It took me time to like be okay with it, and now I appreciate like what it was at the time, and I can reflect on it and be like, that was great. That's what we needed as a friends at the time. And now it's you know, it's done. Like I don't have any ill will about it, but it was. It took a long time.

The only friendship breakups that I have in my life are sort of specific to there having been an event that caused the breakup. There's been less.

Drift an event's hard though I almost I almost feel like the drift is better.

Of course it is. It's far. But it's funny because I have reconnected. We've always stayed friends, but I reconnected with a college friend of mine, and the first time that we talked after not talking for a long time, we talked. I truly, I think we actually spoke on the phone for three hours. I mean, there's something about people who knew who've known you for that life.

I know that they have all the story.

They do just exactly like what I said, they have all the stories. Yeah, she remembers things that I actually don't. This is not shocking, but I mean it's which fun. But yeah, I mean I think that sometimes the breakup breakups have been in friendship. Breakups in my life have been particularly painful because they've there's been an event where someone behaved, you know, myself included. There have been times where I did and said things that I was like

I had I want to know your opinion on this because I told Matt that we were doing this podcast last night and it got on this on the subject of I think, but I might be wrong, and maybe this is how I feel. I think that in relationships, in romantic relationships, you give that person like a lot of chances, right like you're in a fight and it's you get you know, in friendships, no matter how close you are, I think friends get less chances to like get angry at each other in general.

What's your hypothesis you think sex in our sex in our interrupts.

I don't know what my hypothesis.

I guess my hypothesis is that, like, you don't get as many roe bumps in a friendship as you do in a relationship, Like I feel like a relationship you get your get out of jail free card a lot more than friendships, and so they're a little more seven year like maybe likely to end abruptly. You're saying, like one thing happened, right, Like, I can't think of a relationship that I've had where like one thing happened and

Mm hmm.

And I don't know why that is, And I don't even know if other people have that same opinion. I was just it was a conversation that we had last night that I was like, that's kind of interesting.

Yeah, I think we expect more from our friendships, Isn't that crazy? I think we have a higher standard we do. Is that weird to say?

No, I don't think that's weird, But I think that's very interesting.

Actually, yeah, yeah.

I wonder why.

So I read this article by Lilly dan Seger and l two talking about friendship breakups, and she had gone through a friendship breakup and then what she did is she threw together a quick survey and threw it out into the world thinking like, like have you experienced this? And she said the first weekend after she set this survey out on x one hundred and twenty five women responded with stories of betrayal and heartbreak and dramatic fallouts and all the things that come with a friendship breakup.

Now? How do I warn this? Yeah? I completely agree. There isn't that cultural rallying around someone who has broken up with a friend the way that there is when you've broken up with a romantic partner. I mean not that we should, you know, have pain be a competitive sport, but I do. I have found it far more painful to be broken up with as a friend than like the breaking up is hard because you know you have

Yeah, I felt a little bit like, you know.

What, you put me in a time out and you like left me in my room and you forgot about me. You forgot to come and take me out of my time out. And now I'm in my room and I'm actually fine here.

Yeah, I actually decorated it.

Yeah, I've decorated it. I feel like I buyed some friends over Yeah.

Yeah, I've got new friends over here and we've opened a bottle of wine and cool.

Yeah you're cool.

I'm cool. But I'll look forward to running into you.

Yes, I have to say.

The friend that I broke that, well, I think it was kind of a mute to be honest, that this friendship ended with a few years later, I did write her and say like, hey, you know, like if you ever want to meet for coffee, because I was thinking in the moment, I was being nostalgic in the moment.

Is the truth that I thought, like, maybe there's a.

World in which like it's never going to be the same, but like we can we're both mommies now, like maybe they're you know, we both had sons around the same age, like maybe there's a world in which there's a new something there that can work. And then the truth is is that she canceled same day on the coffee and I wasn't even mad at it. I was like, oh, you know what, it's not meant to be, and I just I sort of needed I it confirmed something for me.

A lost a friend.

Yeah you know. Yeah.

And in one of the articles I read, they said, like make sure you don't go to your mutual friends, like don't lean on your mutual friends, because sure, yes, but I kind of did that and it was not a good idea because you do end up hearing I know, but.

What are you supposed to process it in a vacuum? I mean you can't.

I mean I think that, like you, you process it hopefully with friends outside of outside of it. But sometimes the hard thing is is like your friends are all in it mm hmm, and it gets complicated and messy, and maybe you need to put lay down boundaries and be like, listen, I need to like say this, but I like I need you to be Switzerland for just a little bit.

Mm hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, and I think as we mature, whatever age that means for someone. But I think that there's the accountability pieces.

No, I agree with that.

I think I actually think having kids makes me has made me realize that I can own and apologize more because like you're kind of horrified sometimes parenting.

Or at least I am where I'm like, damn, I.

Really yelled, Like I gotta say, like that was a I took it to a ten and they were only at a five. You know, Yeah, like I'm the one that to get to the dam so I gotta say sorry.

Yeah yeah, because you're the role model. Damn it.

Parenting is so humbling, is the truth.

But what we've talked about this before.

I like it do over sometimes, yes, And I think a friendship do over like is so important to be like. I mean, I've definitely called a friend and said I'm so sorry, I'm so.

I don't know why I said that.

So you know, and I those are the friendships that really go the distance they do.

I'm so sorry I said your hair was green.

No, I actually, by the way, it was like thinking.

About it this morning and I'm like, can you you didn't text me the charcoal thing?

I don't.

I don't want you to be sorry about it.

I need you to figure fix it. Yeah yeah, okay, Well i'll get you. I'll get you after this. All right, Well, let's get into what the crew has written in.

Yeah yeah, yeah, Emily says, my best friend lives hours away. What is your best advice for maintaining that friendship from afar?

Hello, we have it. I have this friendship right now. Don't let distance ever derail you. I don't feel that I don't I really don't. I don't. I don't feel it does I I talk to my well again, I mean we're a particular time in our lives, right, we are very busy, so we are we are constantly like pinballing from thing to things. So I don't have a ton of time for real FaceTime, sit down time with my friends, like I can, you know, grab dinners here and there. But I'm not a lady who lunches, and

I think that even I think one thing that we have gotten really good at is sometimes it's like just that two minute call. Mm. It like it and and it maintains that friendship. Or even sometimes I know that I don't have time to really even have a conversation, but I just need to get this one thing out.

I'll send her a voice memo.

And so I just think those little all those things add up so instead of thinking I can't you know, I don't have an hour to talk on the phone, it can be two minutes. It can just be like, hey, what's going on? How are you and I think that it all adds up.

Yeah. Yeah, and also the texting, I'm pretty hilarious each other exactly. Yeah, Okay. Tara wrote in and said, my best friend stopped talking to me because I didn't buy her Taylor Swift tickets. How dare you? I did not feel guilty because the ticket demand price was insane. I don't think you should feel guilty, And I don't think she should have stopped talking to you because you didn't buy her Taylor Swift ticket. Also, I just.

Think that, like you, it's not like Tara had.

The one uh the one link to the ticket. It is ticket Master. Yeah, you can log on at any time you want to.

Yeah, maybe you're mad at her for not buying you tickets.

Yeah, Shannie said, how do I stop expecting new friendships to end bad after a past relationship breakup?

I think that.

Taking time to really examine why a past relationship breakup happened and sit on it really helps you move forward into new friendships and you kind of understand maybe where it imploded, and then you get to navigate new ones differently.

Phoebe, how do you know it is only you that is keeping the friendship alive? And the other person is over it.

Well, if they're doing it, Jessica Capshaw little ghosting, whatever she wants to call it, it's over. I mean, you can tell if somebody's natural it's a ghost. It's if a natural drift is happening. No, I think that like you're being drifted. It's if you're being drifted. Then you know, if someone's not putting in the same energy, that is also the mel Robbins. I mean, that's the thing. If people well, and you let.

Them, and then you figure people want to do it, they're going to do it. Right. When people want to, they do. When they don't want to, they don't. So if someone's not doing what you would like for them to be doing, or not keeping up there under the friendship, then that's your information. I had this thing, Oh my gosh, sidebar.

I was like, oh my god, he cheated and she's like mm hmmm, And I said, but I don't Understan why because I told it, Like I told him if he was seeing other people, he could totally tell me about it.

And she was like, just because you give someone permission to be honest with you, doesn't mean that they will like you're not in control, is basically what I gleaned from that interest.

That's really good. I love that, right, Yes.

Because you you feel like the permission is an invite that will be absolutely accepted because you've given it and it's not true.

But again that would be assuming that you were in control. And Nope, yeah, not.

So.

I think that. I think that if you get a feeling that you're the only one keeping a friendship alive the friendships to have your answer and the other person is over it.

Yeah, and it's not alive, is it?

No, she's gone. It's not funny.

I'm just saying, I know, but it just sounded like a funeral, all of it. Yeah, it's a French of funeral.

Okay, Lottie, I cut off cut.

Off a toxic friend a year ago. I see her around a lot and can't move on.

What do I do?

Well?

I don't understand why you can't move on If she was toxic and you cut her off.

I have questions about that.

Because sometimes we can't quit these toxic people. There would be no television series, there would be no movies if we assumed the toxic people were easy to quit. I mean, do you remember that series that I was in the first season of Tell Me Lies? All Toxic Relationships?

Yeah? But I mean I watch a lot of TV series, but I don't want to be in them.

I love squid games, so I'd rather not play, did I I forgot to tell you this. I was a captive audience when I was getting my nails done the other day and they had the Desperate not Desperate Housewives, the Regular the what's the show you always wanted to watch? Yeah, Real Housewives, the one with Denny Richards and Kyle Beverly Hills.

Kyle Richards.

Yeah, Holy, I know they are so mean.

I know they're awful.

No, they're so mean to each other.

I know it's terrible.

In fact, to be honest, I gotta tie you. We're sigebarring this, but you know what those shows are about, friendship. I had to stop watching because I got so invested and I wanted to throw stuff at my TV.

Wait, who was on it. Wait, who was on this?

Well, honestly, you couldn't make this stup. So I'm getting my nails done with Yesie and yes he and I are talking about this, that and the other. And she's like, I'm gonna put on the Housewives.

Who the heck is?

YESI you just said yes He? Like, oh, I know who that is?

Yes, he does my nails.

I know, but like you gotta sometimes you gotta like introduce the person.

Okay, fine, yes Hei? And is your nail? Is your nail?

Okay, that's my nails because I don't know who this is.

Okay, you're good.

We can move on. We can move on.

So she is a projector and she puts shows up on the wall while you're getting your nails set.

Oh I got like a movie theater.

Yeah, kind that like but also like during the holidays, we watched elf you know.

We just we watched Different Cube.

But yeah, tell me she's the best. I love you, Yesie. So she puts on Housewives and I said, I don't I don't know anything about this one. I mean, I don't know anything about the show. Which one is it? Like who are the characters? And she said, oh, this is the one with she named mom and she said Denise Richards. I said, oh my gosh, you want to know a fun fact, and she said what I said, Denise Richards was one of my really, really, really good friends.

I did.

We were a swat team members. Oh my god, I just yeah, I get a visual on that, because I'm sure I'm serious. Oh yeah, it's amazing. By the way, try and be Denise Richards plus one at the Playboy. No in matching costumes. No confidence that I had that I shouldn't have had.

No, well you and know you had the blonde her brunette. No, I think it works. I think it worked.

I don't know if it works. But anyways, so I say, I used to be very good friends with Denise Richards. And I go off on this whole thing because I'm not watching any of the show, and she's got the volume turned down, and I said, oh my gosh, Denise Richards, we had so much fun. You know, she's from Illinois, I'm from Missouri. She were like two Midwestern girls just out there in Los Angeles, and we had so much fun and I just adored her and she was so

I'm gonna be honest. It could be there's a number of blondies. But I loved Denie switches on that show.

And if she was.

Saying it, I'm in her corner. She was bullied relentlessly for a season. It was horrible to watch. Let's get her on, you know what, We're gonna get her on.

Absolutely, I'm telling you again, I am telling you sweetest, kindest she is.

And by the way, I loved her.

The gloves were off, and of course I now my ears are perked up. So I'm listening to everything that they're saying, and I'm learning things because I haven't kept up on her life, but I'm now learning. This woman was so mean, that was being a that was being so mean to her, And she was talking about how which one of who makes more on OnlyFans.

Ne're a couple of seasons behind.

But they're sitting there and she's like drinking tea. Yeah, she's real mean.

Oh listen, I know it.

That's not good friendship. Just as long as you're on the friendship.

Well, we talked about a toxic friend I mean, these were the Housewives is all toxic friendships.

We're gonna have them on. We'll talk about me, me and meanies.

Okay, Wow we went really you know what, I'm okay with a Housewives sidebar.

Okay, Camilla. A friend got mad.

At me because I didn't invite her boyfriend to my birthday party.

I never met him. Oh, I think you can give your friend a plus one for their boyfriend if.

Everyone else has one. It depends how intimate it is.

Just need to repair. Yeah, get that friend back, don't let that one go. Okay, Jenny says how to deal with someone having a new favorite person. Oh, like competitive friendships.

That's hard.

Yeah, I saw you on Instagram with some other friends.

I know and you. I know that you think that I don't have any but to be honest, I've had to listen to you and Sasha. You will preface Sasha as your prest friend in the entire world more than any other friend. Ever.

I'm just saying, in all fairness, I did not post a picture like in the center of them wearing matching T shirts and like you know, out of the world.

I'm just saying, if you were here, you'd have a T shirt. This is a let them if they have a favorite new friend. Yeah, what are you gonna do? You can't last owe them in. I mean it's hard, but you can be productive about and proactive about making sure that you carve out time and invite them to do things with you so that you feel like the friendship is still getting.

You know, nurtured. Yeah, where you can be in competitive friendship mode and just do everything better than that other friend.

Which is also another angle that we support. We were here on call what it is.

Weren call what it is, Do what you need to do.

If it's war of the roses.

It's more of the roses. It's fun exactly right. Marnie wrote in and said, my family is friends with my ex best friend's family. Our friendship did not end great. Should I be upset with my family for still remaining friends?

Why are they still friends with the family?

It could be like one of those family things where you're literally like your friends or your families or friends, and then you become friends and then you kind of can't.

You kind of untangle it's an untangled while. I would try telling your family that it's you feel like there's a loyalty situation.

Yeah, or you let them and you're just not and then you let me you're just not there when they're all together.

It might come across though, as as being okay with the behavior the friend, if the friend was not a great friend, that you were sort of like okay with it. M. It's tricky, M.

We don't know. We need more information.

Yeah, yeah, Kaitlyn. Can you recover from a friend breakup? Is that trust lost forever?

I'm here to say no, I have had I have had some rocky roads with some friends. And then when it has when it's like when it's genuinely a deep relationship that you care a lot about. I have found my way back.

It has changed it though for you.

No, you can honestly find yourself like back without Oh that's good.

I love that.

Yeah, that's really good.

I love that. There you can happen.

Ella, Is there a way to stop feeling jealous when you see your ex friend with their new friends. Yeah, you don't need to see their I'm assuming you're seeing this on social media. You mute these accounts and you don't see it. Are you out in the world. I mean, that's just what happens with you want your friend ex friends to have other friends. It's still important for them, of course. But if you're seeing this on social there's a new button.

I like me. It's a really very useful tool. Tracy wrote in and said she gossiped to my crush about me. I can't get over this.

That feels like sabotage, betrayal. Yeah, that's a betrayal.

You can't come back from it either.

Next, Charlotte, my big friend group had a falling out and I wasn't involved.

Oh, this is a good question.

Now most of the group are not speaking and I I am feeling alone. I think, then you have to this sort of actually did happen with the with the friend group.

This imploded me.

My friend not being friends anymore imploded our friendship group. And there was a girl that is I've known forever since high school. I love her, and she was sort of in the middle of it, and she just has learned to have individual relationships with all of us. They are separate to each other even though we're not all friends anymore. So that's sort of what you have to end up having. You got to start doing individual friend dates. Yeah, big friend groups.

I was just listening to her friend talk about how her daughter is in a nineteen what No, it's in a group, and I was like, that's a lot.

That's not a friend group. That's a sorority.

That's a school of fish. That's like, that's too many, Like you know, like one day, I.

Don't even know how deep that is. That's not very deep.

Well, it's also just like when something goes wrong, who he supposed to do? I don't know. Eighteen people mad at you that.

It's so stressful.

No, it's okay, okay, Tatum. I had a friend and a friend who fought with me on my birthday because she hates my other friend, and I don't know what to do. Yeah, because you're in between, you're in the tween m I think.

What you do is you don't bring those two around each other, can't be in the same room.

Yeah. Or I have friends, I actually really have had friends that just rub each other the wrong way.

What happens when you all get them together?

Do they play nice?

Yeah? But again, well i'm the speaking given that we just talked about this, I am the opposite of a nineteen friend nineteen girlfriend group. I have, Like I have my close friends, and they're all from different parts of my life. And absolutely we could all sit at a table and it would be lovely. I mean I've had you know you and Ellie and I have sat down and I think you know you, and yes, there's almost instant chemistry because you share someone beloved.

Yeah, I think the friendship circle gets way. The inner inner, the inner inner inner knows every part of you, gets so small. I mean I can count on one hand there's probably like three girls that really know all the things, including you, and I think that it works just fine.

Mm hmm.

Caitlyn says, is it appropriate? To send your friend a happy birthday message if you no longer talk, yes, you think so always, even if it was kind of a rocky like little I think.

I think there's dislike the person, like they did something truly heinous. But if you just don't talk anymore, and you might have done the natural the Jessica Capsule, natural Drift, the JC nd JC indeed, then absolutely you always you will always be happy that you reached out to someone on their birthday? Do you see how my birthday? Love just comes out? No matter what I think I know.

But here's the thing. I think it comes with a disclaimer. I think you only send the message if you're also okay with that friend potentially striking up, like hey, do you want to grab coffee?

Because if you're not.

If you're just wanting to send the message to be nice but you're not actually interested in pursuing anything further, I think you don't because it can get sticky. But the person's like, hey, oh my god, thank you?

What you want to grab coffee sometime?

And you're like, no, oh, well if you have heard that, yeah, no, you're right. You gotta like it comes the disclaimer. You got to be open m all right, you know what this has.

Taking me on a little walk down memory lane, all this friendship talk, and I have to say, I can't. I can't finish this topic without saying this. Friendships are so important mm hmm. And I think that that's why some of this cuts so deep for so many people, and a lot of people. I think that friends are chosen family. Yeah, and I don't know. It was an unnaturally long pause. I just took there.

But no, I think, I know.

I think it's I think it's so true, and I think that like I, I just want to tell the crew that I've had times when I've moved to cities and I've literally had no friends, like really like truly not known anybody.

And it takes a minute.

Did you go to the movies?

I went to the movies by myself till I would also like sit at brunch by myself and watch the girls all laughing over like their bottomless mimosas, and I would be like so sad, like having their sex and the city moment and I'm like the table for one. But you can always, at any point in your life find a great, great friendship, and I think that's important to leave on me, even if you have to do some friendship break breakups and now you're alone and it's

Day in your world so much more. Yeah, and you know what, sometimes you do have to you know, fresh first semester, freshman year. It where you just you you take what you can get.

Yeah. Well, also I mean like you got to kiss a few froggies friendship style.

Yes, yeah, the same thing.

Even if you're doing that, you need to make sure that you don't, like you don't give away the keys to the kingdom to someone who you know is not you know, you should be you should be selective in friendship. You should be with people that really mean something to you and and that are willing to be in like a real relationship with you.

And it should be easy.

Yes, And my friendships just give me so much, like being friends with you gives me so much and I'm so grateful for it.

Yeah, but these things take time, and you know what, sometimes that person.

Hates you, like I don't give to get but like that would have been a beautiful moment for you to be like, yeah, no, you too, I say ditto. Oh I didn't hear that. Sorry, Okay, friends, hey listen. By the way, I'd also like to tell you that while we're living in this day and age of parasocial relationships, I'm your friend. I'll be your friend. Let's be friends.

Yeah.

This is this is why we call it the call it community, our friendship circle.

Yeah. And I believe in you. Yes, I believe in you too.

All right, Okay, I think it's time to call

It the end of the episode.