¶ Understanding Government Cloud Solutions
It's a lot different on the government side . They don't really have any room for that type of outage , if that makes sense .
Oh , of course , I mean obviously nobody really has room for it .
Yeah , but it's a little bit different because when you , it could be a challenge from a national security perspective .
So right , Welcome to the Cables to Clouds podcast , your one-stop shop for all things hybrid and multi-cloud networking . Now here are your hosts .
Tim , chris and Alex .
Hello and welcome back to the Cables to Clouds podcast . I'm your host this week , tim McConaughey at JuanGolbez on Twitter . With me , as always , are my co-hosts Chris Miles at BGP Main on Twitter and Alex Perkins at Bumps in the Wire on Twitter .
The joke that never ends .
Right . It always pays off , just like our fortnightly news . Right With us is a very special guest , a good friend of mine . I'm glad to finally get her on the show , erica Cooper .
She works for Cisco and tonight we're going to be talking about GovCloud , specifically what GovCloud is , and of course , erica has a lot of customers that work in the GovCloud space , so we thought it'd be great to have her on . Erica , if you would please just go ahead and introduce yourself .
Sure , thank you very much , tim and everyone . Chris and Alex Appreciate the opportunity to kind of join the session today . So my name is Erica Cooper and I've been working with cloud solutions for roughly about six years now .
My background is data center and then also virtualization and I've started out on the Cisco side and then kind of migrated into more of the cloud based solutions , cloud based opportunities .
Because of my background and where I actually most of my customers sit , which is in the Washington DC area Most of my customers actually government based as well as intelligence community based .
Awesome . So I guess we should probably just start with the obvious question , since we haven't really covered it on the show yet . We've talked about GovCloud and just said the word GovCloud and kind of skimmed over it , just assumed everybody knew what that was and everything .
But actually I'd like to take this opportunity , especially now that we have you to talk about . First of all , what is GovCloud ?
Obviously , the intended audience is government to some degree , although I'm kind of curious to what level of government is interested in GovCloud or needs to be in GovCloud , and to what level of government is interested in GovCloud or needs to be in GovCloud . And then we can kind of go from there if that works for you .
Sure . So just a high-level overview for GovCloud . Govcloud , it offers the government an opportunity to place different applications that used to be kind of like what I would call sneaker net . You know , just , you have physical equipment on prem and so they moved a lot of their solutions to the , to the clouds , to the cloud environment .
Now , what I will say is , within GovCloud that I have experience on is mostly Azure . So why Azure ? Azure is , you know , with the government . They have a point of presence , a large point of presence with Azure , more specifically than AWS , from what I've seen on the projects that I've actually worked with . Now , why do you save Azure ?
Well , most government entities also have Office 365 . So what's the best way to kind of introduce you into some type of cloud based solution would be that Office 365 in there .
The next iteration would be Azure , azure on prem and then , ok , well , now we offer also some type of hybrid solution , whether it's Azure Hub and I'll go into that a little bit later but Azure Hub versus HCI . So it just kind of just depends upon . You know the customer and you know what their requirements are .
What I will say one of the unique challenges within the government space is that what you see in the public facing cloud cannot go into a GovCloud scenario , because there are specific things that that only need to be , that only need to , I guess , reside within a secured environment . You know .
So it's like if you access it , you specifically have to be in that enclave for that customer , for that specific customer . So it's it's not the traditional cloud .
You know solution is going to be like a good mix of infrastructure and then what I would call like a like Tim , like a Chris , like a nailed up tunnel between your on prem environment and then anything that any resources that I need to access when they within the cloud environment . So it's kind of . It's kind of like that environment .
So I hope that explains it to your , to the listeners here .
Yeah , definitely , and this and this . This may be a silly question to the listeners here . Yeah , definitely , and this may be a silly question
¶ Global Perspectives on Government Cloud Solutions
. I haven't worked with GovCloud in any CSP that much up to this point , but is GovCloud specifically only targeted at the US government , or is it any kind of global perspective ?
Global perspective . It could be , but now I have more experience on the deployments for US based CONUS . But I have seen some customers that are international and one of the unique challenges would be they would still have to depend upon the agency .
They still would have to have some point of presence communicating back here stateside , have some point of presence communicating back here stateside . So it's just a matter of setting that up international , getting all the requirements . The IP addressing scheme is a little different still IPv4 .
Most customers have not gone into IPv6 just yet , but you know it's just been more IPv4 and then , you know , having that communication link back to some point of presence here stateside in the United States . One of the things that I will say is that when you're looking at the cloud based solution , especially on the on the government side , it's going to be .
I'll give you an example , one of my customers . They migrated from a what I call a physical host , you know Dell servers over into like a virtualized environment , vmware , and then they put that entire application . It took them some years to get that application to be what I call cloud ready .
So they put , they moved all of their resources compute into the cloud and then at that point , then we had to come up with . Come up with a solution to offer for their customers at Persona .
I just want to call this out before we go too far , because everybody keeps saying GovCloud . This is just ironic to me . Aws calls their solution GovCloud and we're talking about how Azure is like the what you see the most .
I also have some customers that work on the government cloud space and I think I probably see about a 50-50 mix between GovCloud and MAG or , I think , called Microsoft Azure for government . Yeah , that's right . I just thought it was funny that we're saying GovCloud . I mean , whether we like it or not AWS .
Terminology tends to be the most ubiquitous .
That everybody just kind of uses and knows .
I want to go back a little bit , because so Alex and I worked on the NMCI , the Navy Marine Corps Internet . So when you said CONUS , so let's be clear for our listeners . By the way , conus means continental US , so there's continental US and there's OCONUS , which is outside the continental US . So my question was going to be for government entities .
Obviously they have an OCONUS presence outside . I'm not saying this specifically , but since I worked for the Navy , the Navy obviously has a huge presence outside the continental US .
Do you see it differently and I don't want to get too specific obviously because we have OPSEC to consider but do you see it where , whatever the enclave that is , is coming back to CONUS and then into MAG or the Microsoft Azure for Government , or do they tend to wherever they're at , they just find the closest Microsoft Azure ?
The reason I ask this is because I don't know how prolific and proliferated Microsoft Azure this is because the reason I ask this is because I don't know how prolific and proliferated Microsoft Azure for government is across the globe .
Right , yeah , so they normally . So most of my customers that have been OCONUS have actually come to . They actually have their specific connection back into . It's like a direct connection back into Azure
¶ Implementing GovCloud
Cloud . Now , one thing that is a unique challenge is if you sit here stateside , then at that point in time you need to figure out , when you make the design , you know what resources are going to be available for traffic coming ingress into that Azure environment .
So I will say this much it is a lot of from from my perspective and looking at things differently , it's a lot of making sure that you have everything in place for security , because when you're dealing with the government , everything ramps up . You see that CrowdStrike challenge that Microsoft has been dealing with the last few days . It's a lot different .
On the government side they don't really have any room for that type of outage , if that makes sense .
Oh , of course , I mean obviously nobody really has room for it .
Yeah , but it's a little bit different because when you , it could be a challenge from a national security perspective .
I get it .
Yeah . So it's like we can't . Oh well , you're gonna be down for a few hours or we're gonna push this patch . Yeah , no , that's not gonna happen . Everything is is thoroughly vetted , and then you go through a process and then you they vet it again and they say , okay , now we can push it .
By the time you know they push the patch out , you know if something else has come up , you know another patch has come up . So it's just going to be a lot of betting and making sure that everything is all . Your I's are dotted and T's crossed .
Yeah , absolutely what I wanted to go for , because I feel like we talked about GovCloud , but let's talk about it in terms of versus public cloud . For example , you mentioned that for GovCloud , they have a specific thing where only certain enclaves can get into a certain gear . Is it that segmented ?
Because I know Microsoft runs those data centers right , they're all discrete data centers , just like AWS and everything . Because I know Microsoft runs those data centers right , they're all discrete data centers , just like AWS and everything .
So within that discrete data center , that Enclave A is running their cloud workload , is it to that level where we've labeled the rack and that the people who are cleared for that enclave can go into that rack ? Is that Microsoft doesn't have their own people doing that ?
Okay , no , and so I've been doing the deployments for Azure , azure Stack , azure Stack , hub , and now coming up on HCI , you have to be cleared . And so Microsoft , they own the contract , own the opportunity . However , they don't go out and actually do the physical deployments in the work .
When I've done some deployments for Cisco , it's written in the contract that you have to have what we call AS or advanced services to come in and say okay , we're not going to do the rack and stack , that's on the customer , the cabling , but we would have to actually send the cable equipment list cell out to the customer , like connect this to here , and then
at that point we'll come on site due to deployment . It would take a long time because it's actually , you know , putting a lot of different PowerShell scripts , you know pushing a lot of . JSON yeah . So it's a lot of scripts that you have to create and sometimes they work , sometimes they don't . You know , it's just kind of like okay , you know .
Then you got to start troubleshooting what kind of blew up versus what didn't . The other challenge comes into play is that if there's anything northbound , like a firewall , then you got to make sure that all the rules are set up so that it allows traffic ingress into that enclave .
So you can't no one can just go in there arbitrarily and walk in and say , hey , I want to move this to this . No , it's not , and most of the time it's going to be in what we call a SCIF or secured environment . And then you know you have to be cleared . You know meaning like security clearance .
You know vet it and then depend upon your classification of your clearance . Then at that point you would go and have either keyboard access or you can shoulder surf and say , ok , make these changes here . No , back that out , let's change . You know something like that .
So it just depends upon who's cleared and who's not and what level of accessibility is required . The other thing that I want to point out is that I have never been on site where the Microsoft engineers have done any , and so it's no , no slight towards them . They just know their role , you know .
They know , hey , you guys get this up and running , we'll come up and register it and then we'll help the customer , along with you guys , to build out the workloads and resources .
And then it's kind of , after we get it up and running , then it's that joint collaborative effort from all different parties and it's more of the focus at that point will be on the customer . And , hey , what do you want your dashboard to look like ? What do you want your ? You know how do you want to specifically set this up ? So it's kind of like a .
I would say it's almost like a two-phase approach . You come in and you build out the infrastructure and then at that point , after you build out the infrastructure , then we sit down at the table with the Microsoft team and the customer and figure out what they want to do .
Yeah , and trying to get like escorts lined up properly if you need escorts in the places , and oh my gosh it's a mess . If anyone has ever dealt with that stuff , it is very painful to try to do .
Yeah , it's a mess .
Yeah , I think that's a great point .
And , calling back to what you said about the vetting that needs to take place for these systems that are running within Cloud for Government , I'm sure that same vetting process also has to happen for the kind of CSP native services that they're running right , including things like load balancers and , you know , virtual machines , what have you ?
So , from speaking from that perspective , do you ever see any constraints with , like feature parity , like it , like the , some new feature come out that enable something within I don't know , like maybe vwan or gateway load balancer or something like that , that doesn't actually make it to gov cloud for , or so I shouldn't say gov cloud , cloud for government ?
Uh , does it make it to cloud for government within a certain length of time ? Is that , is that a constant constraint for you ?
yes , and so one of the things that so Microsoft when they actually say , okay , this baseline feature is available and you can go .
And so , for example , I've done a deployment where , and it was a nightmare , and so as soon as we finished up the deployment , microsoft had released a new baseline , and so I had to go back and undo everything we just did for five different sites and I had to spend an extra two weeks out on site to get that up and running . So what ?
I wanted to answer your question directly . When Microsoft sends out their baseline release , they'll tell you specifically here's all the codes that are available for your load balancers . Here's all the code specific for your on know , like your on-premise compute , on-premise switches , everything .
So you have to adhere to that , even if they come out with a new release in the middle of your install . You got to go back and undo all that and get it up to code , and so it is a challenge . It is a challenge because if they don't do that , then the customer has the right and it's in the contract to say I'm not accepting this site .
And then at that point it's like either you know a military term , go pound sand or just get it done .
So , if I'm understanding that correctly , are you saying that the services within you know obviously we're talking about Azure in this specific example ? Are you saying the services within Azure allow for configuration still outside of the recommended baseline and you have to make sure that you're adhering to that ? Is that what I'm understanding ?
So whatever the baseline comes in , so like let's say it's release 22 or something like that , or 2208 or 2408 for the year If they come out with 2409 in the middle of that I have , I would have to go back and say okay , we're gonna have to scrap this and start this whole thing over , because that's what I had to do last year for the five sites I had
to deploy out for the us navy , because it was just in the the day that we had the final deployment .
¶ Microsoft Cloud Solutions and Certifications
I was like , okay , we're getting ready , you know we're done . And then , like three hours later , the account manager from microsoft hey , you're gonna hate me , but I gotta .
You know we got this new baseline release and I was like are you serious ?
I'm ready to go home . I've been on site all week , so I we had to stop everything , uh , and just completely do a flat out erase of all five sites .
We set them up in a kind of like assembly line , so so the code that they release that we're talking about is I mean , we know that Microsoft uses a lot of white box stuff , or or or white white label stuff really within you know it's Arista , it's Juniper , it's Cisco , whatever they could get their hands on really in in the racks , right .
So is that what we're talking about ? Like you're , you're building this , this on , you're building this for an enclave , you have to run this code that microsoft's essentially the , to interact and become part of the cloud , right and so .
And then they release a new version of that software , so you have to go load it all up on your on , on all the gear that you've deployed to this rack , is that ?
yeah , that is correct . Yeah , and so what'll happen is if there's um , you know , associated , you know like peripheral features , like for load balancers or anything else , we would have to go back and get that same image that coincides with that specific baseline release .
Because if you release , if you deploy out , let's say again , for you know , version 2408 and 2409 is there , version 2408 and 2409 is there . Well , if I upgrade the whole environment for 2409 and the low balancer is sitting at here , it's a recipe for disaster . We tried that once .
I was like well , you know how come I just can't do an upgrade on this entire solution . It's simple , you know we should just do an upgrade . Yeah , no , that doesn't work as well as you think it's going to work . You know , because I've seen that just implode , the firmware looks like it's updating .
You kind of leave it in and just say , okay , we're going to go back , get some lunch , go back and go home to the hotel , get some food and then come back in the morning . It's still sitting there where you left it at the night before .
Yeah , so it's just like yeah . And I guess it has . I mean it has to be upgraded right , like because the whole thing is , it's all about Microsoft's automation engine that's bringing it , making it part of the cloud , right , so you can't just run it a revision back or something right , it has to match everything , right , exactly .
But you know it's a challenge , you know it's just you learn . I'll say this much I really had to get out of the mindset of you know like , uh , python scripting and everything else , and really dive deep into powershell because , oh yeah , you know , python doesn't exist in the microsoft world at least everything's powershell .
Yeah , absolutely yeah , so how do you , how do you like powershell ? So I had to take fire . The reason I ask is I had to take a PowerShell class as part of my cloud computing degree .
I mean , it was okay , right , it was fine , and part of that class was actually building a whole PowerShell script to load a database and insert users in the database and everything . I was like , yeah , it's okay . But I'll be honest , I much preferred Python . So I'm curious , I always ask everybody else's opinion .
Okay , I'll say this much I don't like it as as it's not as clean as I would say like Python or something or a different language . It is very challenging because but the good thing about PowerShell is that you can Google something and say , okay , have you seen this ?
And then it's like yep , I saw this , and some and somebody on wherever on some blog site's like , yeah , this is what you got to do , step A , step B , and you see that a lot on the Python side , but it's really more detailed from what I've seen on the website Unity through suffering .
it sounds like .
Yeah , and usually what you find is not that the Microsoft documentation tells you this . Right , it's always somebody's Stack Overflow type thing , where somebody suffered through it and they figured it out . Now they're going to save you some time . No , you're absolutely right , dude .
I feel like I see that a lot with Microsoft specific products . I don't mean to dig at them or anything , but I remember I was building pipelines in Azure DevOps and there were so many things where I was like I have no idea what this does and nothing in the documentation tells me what this does .
It's all the community that's telling me what it does , which is just bonkers to me .
Yeah , no , you're right , and it's funny . I mean , it's an inside joke sometimes when we deploy out for Azure Stack Hub or Azure Stack HCI , but Microsoft writes documentation . Inside joke sometimes , when we deploy out for Azure Stack Hub or Azure Stack HCI , but they , Microsoft , writes documentation .
Now , you know , they're known , as you know , like a PC , you know Windows , you know company , but they write out networking and cloud-based deployment guides for these engineers and it's , it's some of the documentation . I'm like , okay , you can tell somebody that didn't know networking , oh , yeah , for sure . Because it's like what is this ?
I'll tell you an example . They were talking about routing protocols and so they were trying to explain well , this is how you can verify BTP neighbors . And I was like , I already know that , okay , so it just was the weirdest . I just looked at this and I said , wow , are we going to , can we edit these documentations or do we have to just look at this ?
Because this is insane . It's just , it's just a lot of different challenges for Microsoft .
Absolutely . So I know we don't have a , so yeah , let's . Let's move on to certification stuff , because one of the biggest things of course with government entities is having to match , having to have it to get government certified , like FedRAMP and all of the government certifications . So from a MAG perspective , what does that look like ?
I mean , you obviously have done multiple customers , so I'm sure those customers have different certification requirements . So for these discrete data centers , does Microsoft just you know , blanket , like hey , we support everything , or like how does how does the whole certification process ? I wouldn't have thought so Right .
So I'm curious what the cert process looks like .
So that's a good question . Now that's the part I really don't get involved
¶ Navigating Government Cloud Procurement
with . But I will say this much for the deployments I've worked with , you have to be FedRAMP , fisma compliance , fips compliance . All of your devices has to be in that FedRAMP . You know , I guess , enclave or whatever . So if it's not like , for example , the UCS C240M7s are not FedRAMP .
So you'll never see a deployment until they actually get that certification completed , you know . Or the Dell some of the Dell boxes are not FedRAMP compliant . So you know , it's just a matter of you know , they have strict requirements . And then it's also not just Microsoft but it's also the government customer too .
Yeah , of course .
Yeah , so then you're looking at two different agencies that the vendor and then the whoever , the customer , but it takes a long time for FedRAMP stuff to get approved .
I'm curious , because there's different levels to FedRAMP . Are there products within MAG that are different levels ? Like you know , there are some products that you can use and some you can't , depending on , yeah , like what level the customer needs ?
oh yeah , because that sounds like a pain to navigate as well . That's oh it is , and that's why I'm I'm glad I don't get involved with it to that level because , uh , but it's more on the , what I've seen is more of the , the account team . They kind of handle most of that .
But I will say that some of the products from , like I said , from Dell or from Cisco or any other vendor , they just don't . Some of the products are compliant , some of them are not . I do know the M7s are not compliant . Ucsx they're not compliant , they're working on it , but if they're not compliant , then Microsoft's like no , we can't use it .
But you know , if they're not compliant , then Microsoft's like no , we can't use it Right , that makes sense . I mean , at least in those data centers . Obviously that makes perfect sense .
Yeah , so obviously with this might be circling back to some point we may have . We probably should have covered earlier . But let's say , what's the procurement process to even start using cloud for government ? I'm assuming not any old Joe Schmo can start deploying resources in these cloud-based or sorry , these government-focused cloud platforms .
Is there a specific process that needs to go through to even deploy there ?
So when you said process , meaning like , are you talking about from a delivery perspective or just going there and kind of talk to the customer about from a , I guess , a design perspective ?
The first part . So like , let's say , I'm a specific agency and I've decided I'm going to start deploying resources in the cloud . Do I have to discuss this with the CSP and get some kind of regulatory thing in place to even start pushing there , or how does that work ?
Yeah . So I've seen it both ways . I've seen it where the account team like from either Dell or Cisco , they'll come in and say , hey , what are your cloud challenges that you want to partake in ? How can we help ? These are the solutions that we have that we can help you with that .
I've also seen it where the cloud service provider will bring the vendors in and say , hey , this is our preferred partner for this . So it just kind of depends . One thing I will say is that the compute is a big factor and with the government you have to be careful because of course you know they'll go out and they'll solicit what is it ?
Three or four different bids ? I think sometimes six .
Yeah , the RFP process is legendary .
Yeah , yeah , it hasn't changed . But sometimes they'll solicit RFPs and what I've seen is sometimes that the most economically priced you know like , you know , if you come in at the lowest rank , then sometimes that'll , you know , get you in the door . That may not be the best solution for your environment .
So that's why I've seen it both ways , where the account team would come in and talk you know , they've got , you know different relationships with directors and you know people , key , you know personnel , but they'll make that , you know introduction and they'll say , hey , these are cloud-based offerings .
And we also have seen it the other way , where it's the cloud service provider , in this case Azure , come in and say , okay , this is what we can do and this is our preferred agency or preferred partner to actually do the work or deployment . Did that answer your question , chris ?
Yeah , yeah , yeah , it did , Thank you .
No , this has been great . I'm glad we were able to kind of cover this . I know we've talked about GovCloud on the show multiple times but not really ever really got into well , what is . It's one of the things where it sounds like it explains itself .
If you just say GovCloud , it's obvious right , but there's obviously a lot of nuance into it and I'm sure there's a lot of nuance even between the CSPs and what they actually offer to some degree , although I imagine they all have to have the same certifications , they'll have to support the same government requirements , if you will .
Yeah , no , I think this is a really good start to talk about GovCloud . We'll have to have you back sometime to talk about some GovCloud designs and , from a design perspective , how you have to design differently . We touched on it a little bit , but I think there's definitely a lot more to talk about there . But thank you for coming on the show .
It was awesome to have you Guys . Any thoughts ?
¶ Transitioning to Cloud Career Paths
Nothing specific . I was going to ask you real quick . This is kind of a little off topic , but you mentioned this in the beginning and since I have a similar kind of background , I'm curious . But you said you came from a data center background and I've noticed that a lot of network engineers getting into cloud come more from service provider or WAN .
Do you think that has given you more of an advantage ? How has that helped you as you transitioned to cloud ?
I think it's put me at a unique advantage , and I'll say this much , put me at a unique advantage one , and I'll say this much so , although it's important to understand , you know , like the , the route switch , or the enterprise and the service provider , I see a lot of different times .
I see a lot of times where , um , the data center world is easier for me to make that transition because I'm familiar with virtualization , I've dealt with hyper v , vmware , um , you know storage , saying you just all of that and whereas you know an enterprise engineer or a service provider , they probably wouldn't see that , they would not see some of those different
, you know . So it's like , ok , well , I already know about it . And that was one reason why I said , when I think about five , six years ago , I was like I was doing a lot of Cisco , aci , hyperflex , you know , deployments and stuff like that , and I was like , well , what's next after this ?
And so I was like , ok , well , and then they started talking about AWS , cloud , and I was like , yeah , but most of my customers don't really touch AWS , they touch Azure . And so I just started saying , okay , let me start really looking at this cloud solution . So it was easier for me to make that transition . But I also have a route switch background .
I'm a , you know . I tried to . You know it took me what ? Three times to get my four times to get my CCIE , but they were the first . Three attempts were on the route switch , now it's enterprise and then the last attempt was on the data center side . So my route switch background still never kind of leaves me .
It just it's always there kind of like in the background . I just know , oh , okay , you know , I know when to bring it out , but or , you know , kind of use it as necessary . So Great answer , thank you . Or kind of use it as necessary . Great answer , thank you .
I mean , if you want , I can go over one of the projects I dealt with for one of my it's still a government agency , but it's not nearly as strict as the IC community . We did a VXLAN , evpn , bgp multi-site , multi-fabric solution for , you know , one of my government agencies and we're still actually deploying that out . It's not finished , but it's kind of .
What the government wanted was they wanted to have resources available for , you know , different sites for different sites and then have the extended across the WAN to other sites locally within the United States . And so I chose for a solution was VXLAN , but then also we're doing an integration with AWS Cloud . Now I'm learning that part of it now .
So it's been really unique because as soon as I said , well , you guys don't want to use Azure , and they were like no , we want to use AWS , and so it was kind of , oh OK , so at least I get a chance to kind of touch that , you know , touch that environment .
But I'm right now building out the VXLAN portion , the underlay , overlay , and then we have a point of presence , a direct connect between one of our sites going out to AWS , and that looks a lot different because you have our low balancers , our F5 low balancers , and they do a lot of what is it global low balancer and whatnot .
And so that was pretty unique to see that environment because I've within the other side , on the Azure side , it was very limited as far as just one you know single low bouncing for that enclave , whereas this is global is for all of the different sites that we're looking at , for VXLAN and multi-fabric . So it's pretty unique .
And then the other thing that I think is really unique is Cisco has NDFC , which is Nexus Dashboard Fabric Controller , so it gives you the ability to look at all your fabrics . You know VXLAN fabrics and what you know information is going across . You know anything that you want to look at from like , let's say , an endpoint or anything from that perspective .
So it's pretty unique , kind of setting that up and , you know , delivering that for the customer .
Yeah , Tim is our recent expert on Nexus Dashboard .
I am not . I mean , I passed the Cisco U course for the research for the 26 credits and I have to say it was an extremely painful experience . Yeah , same here .
Not the .
Cisco UP . It's just , it's not . It's very unknown to me as an enterprise guy so yeah . OK but that's a that's a very cool design . I love it . I love to hear more about it . So it's yeah , I mean multi-cloud . When you start getting into multi-cloud , things get really interesting . That's when we think things get the most interesting , and hybrid as well .
Right , you were talking about Direct Connects and whatnot . We definitely think . So we'll definitely have to have you back on to talk about that a little bit more . I mean , obviously to the degree that you can , obviously without naming names and showing where the bodies are buried , if you will .
If I do that , you guys would never see me again .
They'd come to our house and put the bag over our head too .
Yeah , it's like hey , weren't you on that shoulder ? Nope .
They'll go all the way to Australia to get Chris yeah throw me in the water . Awesome . Okay , so I guess this is probably a good place to wrap for now . Again , it's been awesome having you on the show . Eric , we will have to have you back . Thanks for joining us .
Sure my pleasure . Thank you , I appreciate it .
Anything you want to plug or where they can find you . Anything you want to plug or where they can find you .
Oh yeah , so I'm on Twitter at tech lady T , e , c , h , l , a , y , d , e , e and you know I'm always there . If you've got questions , just reach out and you know it's just . You know part of the it community , so you got these great guys here that open up the platform for me . So I appreciate that .
But anything you got a question about , just throw it out there and one of us will probably get a chance to answer it . So
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love it , Okay . So if you enjoyed the episode , please follow us on every conceivable social media . Go to our website , click like on our wherever you can . Click like for us by our cereal , and we'll see you guys next time . Hi everyone , it's Tim and this has been the Cables to Clouds podcast . Thanks for tuning in today .
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