¶ NVIDIA Leaks on AI Training
I get the , I get the . Uh , I get the the WWE thing with like the guy coming in with a steel chair . It's Andy Jassy with a steel chair .
It's stone cold , yeah Right , we need like the Undertaker music . And then he just appears behind .
Matt Garman yeah , exactly .
Welcome to the Cables to Clouds podcast , your one-stop shop for all things hybrid and multi-cloud networking .
Now here are your hosts , tim , chris and Alex . Hello and welcome back to your fortnightly Cables to Clouds news episode . My name is Alex Perkins . I am at Bumps in the Wire on socials . I will be your host for today's episode . I'm joined , as always , by my two co-hosts , tim McConaughey at OneGolbez and Chris Miles at BGP Maine .
We don't have a whole lot of articles , but we are going to jump right in . We know we like to talk a lot about some of these things , so let's get started . All right , so we got an article from the Verge and it's titled NVIDIA leaks show employees discussing using MKBHD and Netflix videos to train AI .
To me , I think immediately , this is not surprising to anyone that's been paying attention , mkbhd . I don't know if anyone follows him on random social platforms , but he was making kind of a big deal about this , like he was shocked and I , just , like you , had to know that , like , what else are people using to train their stuff on ?
There was an interview I don't know if you guys saw this with Mira Marotti . She's the CTO for OpenAI and she got asked point blank are you guys using YouTube videos to train , like to train your models ? And she's like hmm , I don't know the answer to that . I'll have to look it up for you . Of course you guys are . Don't try to hide it .
Anything publicly available , anything and everything right .
Exactly , and now , with all the licensing terms have probably been updated to say that your data is freely available for this as well . So what do you guys think here ? Any surprises , any points you want to bring up ?
I think the big thing is that this is not a surprise to anyone . The only thing that's surprising about this is that it's public and people have seen it now , because everybody knew and how long have we been talking about this ?
About the privacy concerns , about the copyright concerns of these corporations that are in a mad dash to be first to market with the products , training on anything and everything they can get their hands on , and there's no privacy , no ethics concerns .
So this is literally not surprising at all I think maybe it's surprising that this was um like direct I think it's select direct slack messages that were leaked within nvidia .
So I think maybe the only thing surprising is where it's coming from and how there's a leak at all yeah , yeah , but to me that's , that's the only thing surprising I think , surely based on the , the , the numbers , because what I think they said , like 80 years worth of video content a day , is being downloaded or something like that .
Um , because I think it made sense at first like it's probably going to be all stuff that's generally kind of popular , like they were talking about uh , uh m , m what I forget his acronym every time mbkD or whatever M-K-B-H-D yep . Yeah .
So that's obviously stuff that has millions of views , but I wonder if they're even pulling in shit that's got like 10 views . Is that worth it to them ?
It should be . Yeah , it's all . Any data is good data , right when that's concerned , they'll just pull it all in . Yeah .
So maybe pulling in some nice Alex Jones content , I'm sure we're in there . Yeah , we might . Hey , dude , we're training models baby .
They're going to release a chat GPT or video GPT to replace us with cloud news , AI cloud news any minute .
I just realized we didn't put this in the news at all , but it might be a good spot to talk about it . Actually , the the search gpt um announcement from open ai . Um , like , because that's that I mean , I think that's the going to be the first thing that really is going to probably scare google to death .
Um , yeah , and microsoft we did talk about this , though , didn't we did two weeks ago , we brought it up in the last episode , but we didn't really go . We didn't dig in on it .
But yeah , I do remember talking a little bit about this To be fair , they did this thing where they announced it and you can't play with it . So that pretty much means it probably doesn't exist yet . It's just they've done all the UX , you know , the UX design , and there's nothing concrete yet . But yeah , it'd be interesting to see where that goes .
Yep , all right , let's go to
¶ AWS Service Discontinuation and Future Trends
the next one . I think this is from Forbes , so you may or may not have a paywall for this article , but it's called what AI Means for Networking Infrastructure in 2024 . This one , actually , I think I saw this . John Capobianco shared this out on Twitter and he had a quote from the article basically summing up what this is about and really the article .
The title does not really do the article justice , for what it's actually about . It's actually about separating networking into two different domains , as it's actually about . It's actually about separating networking into two different domains as it relates to AI , as in .
There's how networking infrastructure is set up for AI workloads , and then there's using AI to kind of automate and set up network infrastructure in the first place , and the article is really just kind of talking about those two differences and then it lists some of like the some not all of them , but some of the well-known players in the spaces here .
It's a good article . It's not super long , so I would definitely check this one out . What do you guys think ?
It was good Like it was . I like how they did the whole switch between AI for networking and then networking for AI , kind of you know . Both can be true . One is about building the infrastructure to support AI in the network and one is about using AI to help networking , which , of course , is more what John is focused on , right .
Yeah , his new company Selector AI . I think , that's exactly what they do , is they use AI and try to make LLMs , I guess for your network .
All right . So next up we have kind of not so much a news article but instead an update from a newsletter . So if you guys are familiar with Forrest Brazil which I think I was saying his last name , right If you've been in cloud for any bit of time , you're probably familiar with forrest's work . He did the cloud resume challenge years ago .
He's been pretty prominent um , uh , cloud influencer , I would say . I worked at cloud guru , google um , and now has started a uh , an influencer consulting company which before the show we termed that maybe an insulting company , but we don't want that to we don't want that to catch on .
Influencer consulting yeah we which is the company that he has started with him , emily Freeman and we . We very much like both these individuals , so we don't want to say it's an insulting company , but it was just . It was just funny .
I it was me . I've tripped on my words there and I was like insulting . I was like , oh crap , that actually works .
But yeah , we actually have an article here , or I'll say an update from his newsletter about the end of everything cloud . So he kind of dives into the fact that AWS which I believe we briefly mentioned this maybe last time we talked that they've discontinued their CodeCommit service and it was weird the way they did it .
It wasn't really on any of the news updates , it was on just an update for how to migrate your CodeCommit repositories over to another one .
That was the update .
That was the update , but there was a tiny little blurb at the top that said you know we've decided to discontinue this service for new users , so existing users will see no impact .
You know they'll still have , you know , maintain support , and they even mentioned that they're going to continue to scale security and availability for it , but there will be no new added features .
So I think that kind of sparked this think piece here from him about the end of everything cloud , and it was talking about specifically , you know , aws , introducing these so-and-so half-baked services into the market and then not giving them the care and feed that they want .
And now they're getting , you know , getting the ax , and these are typically your category two services . So category one are kind of the , the table stakes stuff like ec2 , s3 , you know , rarely we do we see something get affected in that realm . So it's all these other things like I think the full list is actually um , they discontinued what was it ?
Code commit , uh , cloud nine , their IDE , um based in the cloud , Um , I think , maybe like cloud search , I think it was which I think they've been pushing open search instead of that for quite a while . So that one was surprising , but it it did kind of . I think he kind of had this very interesting take on .
You know where this leaves you about where you can trust AWS on the services they're introducing Right now . Amazon Q is the new hotness , which I believe Amazon Q for developer actually inherited another service what was the Code Whisperer ? That was something that I got . He kind of talks about this end of everything cloud where they have , yeah , coderiver .
So I think it's a really good article . I think you should go read it and again , it'll be in the show notes . My inkling about this is you know , obviously he has his thoughts on it . This feels like a top-down approach to me . Like it seems like this started happening right after Matt Garman was introduced as CEO of AWS .
So probably , simplification of the portfolio . I've actually been hearing rumblings from some people that I know over at AWS that there is a strong focus now on driving business where , you know , typically things have been very , very customer centric .
You know , aws kind of very much prides itself on being a place that focuses on customer being obsessed with their customers and customer empathy and things like that .
But they , you know , I think with some of the competition coming in , they're really going to have to focus on driving business , and I think this is probably the first domino to fall in that kind of realm . How about you guys ? What do you think ?
So okay , if you go back to one of our , something you brought up is important . If you go back to , it might have been our original episode , maybe the second one .
How long has it been that we've been talking about how multi-cloud would be not only the future , but you would see the cloud providers stop trying to be everything to everyone and focus on their core strengths ? This is a year and a half ago , guys . Let's go back and look at the episode list . We've been saying this this long .
Introduce the Titanic meme . It's been 65 years , it's been 80 years right .
Yeah , no , we said this was coming , and it does feel a little bit good to be vindicated on that . The other thing is something that a lot of people don't know about . Aws is , and I don't know if this is still the case , but for a long time the way to advance at AWS was to basically get yourself attached to or introduce new services . So AWS was very .
They were rolling services out like oh my god , every fucking week .
Yeah , that's like all the FANG companies .
They were just rolling out services after service , after service , and what Forrest says about them being half-baked , that was often true , but it was the agile approach of let's get it to market , let's see what people have to say , let's see what gets adopted , what doesn't get adopted , so on and so forth . But yeah , so the code commit .
And did they say why they're doing code commit specifically ? Are they basically just kind of giving up in face of copilot ? Because it seems like the copilot the AWS copilot basically is what that was right , code commit or is that a different thing ?
No , this was like a Git provider .
Oh , this is the repository thing . Yeah right , okay , sorry , no , this was a Git provider . Oh , this is the repository thing . Yeah right , okay , sorry . No , you're talking , I think it's CodeWhisperer . Yeah , but you're right , it stayed with Q , that's right . Sorry , yeah , codecommit . I think the sheer fact that you confused .
That speaks to the problem . The problem , yeah .
Right , no , I should have . You're right , but the thing is , why have an AWS-specific repo ? There's no value , right , there's not really a value to it . Yeah , and honestly I feel that way about CloudFormation and most of the cloud-specific infrastructure as well the abstraction tools .
I don't have a whole lot to add to this . I like that he calls out . I don't think you have to worry that this is . They're turning into Google , where they just kill products every week and there's a whole like Twitter account just called killed by Google . There . Now there's going to be one killed by AWS .
But I think , kind of in the middle of what you guys said , like Tim , this is good that they're doing this . Now , I think a lot of this , as Chris was saying , there might have been like some leadership decisions here . They're doing it before they turn into Google .
So you know , they're kind of like they were on that path and now I think it's good to just see them kind , of course , correcting a little bit now that someone else is in charge , being Matt Garman . So that's really all I got to say .
Yeah , by the way , I did revisit killedbygooglecom . If you've never seen this website , I visit it quite often , but I did a quick look at it to see what's changed . Total on Killed by Google total services , apps , hardware et cetera 296 items , which is crazy .
I can't think I don't have 296 ideas in my head . I know , dude , but yeah .
I actually was listening to the folks over at software to find talk , talk about this , this exact thing with the decommissioning of these AWS services , and I think Brandon one of the hosts on the show , I think he predicts that Jassy is going to ascend from wherever he's at and make an appearance at reInvent and kind of say that he's back in some capacity to
right the ship . I don't know if I necessarily agree , but that would be super cool to see , I think , just because of the things that he built over that long . But I don't know . What do you guys think ?
I get the WWE thing with the guy coming in with a steel chair . Sandy Chelsea with a steel chair . Sandy Chelsea with a steel chair . It's stone cold .
Yeah right , we need like the Undertaker music , and then he just appears behind .
Matt Garman yeah , exactly .
Yeah , if they do it , it's going to be because they're trying to help show the street that they're doing some serious shit . So much of this stuff is performative at the end of the day , really , for the street , it sadly is yeah , 100% , all right , okay .
So speaking of performative things , so our next article is from Cloud Computing News and it is a follow-on to Actually , I don't think we actually covered this originally , but Nokia sued Amazon for their streaming service , for their video streaming , saying that they were I don't remember if that was a monopoly .
¶ Enterprise Cloud Spending and Legal Disputes
I'll actually have to go find the original article and we'll get it .
They were using their technology ?
Yeah , they were using their technology to do Prime Video . That's what it was , that's right . And so now Amazon's answer is to counter sue Nokia , saying that Nokia is using proprietary cloud technologies that were pioneered by Amazon to do its delivery . It specifically says in the article patent infringement on things like virtualization and cloud computing .
I can't imagine this one's going to be easy to prove . I haven't read any patents by Amazon or AWS , but there can't be anything so broad as cloud computing or virtualization , or else VMware would have had that shit 20 years , know , 20 years ago , like so I'm very curious to see where this one's going to go .
Yeah , I this is . It's kind of funny the way it reads , because there's a part that says , basically , that Amazon's lawsuit paints a different picture , portraying Nokia as a company desperately pivoting to cloud technologies after losing ground in the mobile phone market .
Basically , they're saying , like these guys are just mad that they're not as good as us and they're just clinging on to whatever they can to stay relevant . So as you said very performative .
Yeah , I mean , that's the thing , though it's like if these were smaller companies , this kind of shit wouldn't happen like this . Right , when you have that much disposable income , especially with this , it's like you might as well throw it at the wall and see what sticks right .
Get a settlement . They have the money and the legal teams to do this forever , right .
Yeah , they'll just volley this back and forth . I mean , look at the Tisco and Arista thing .
How long did that ?
last I would say you argue you had a better case in this area . But uh , yeah , yeah , but even things like that . That seems so clear-cut . Even took what was .
It was years um it was years and I don't think honestly , at the end of it , I think arista still came out on top , even though they lost the lawsuit right , yep yep , they paid a shitty fine and they kept using the technology that you know . They kept using that technology . So this I wonder , I don't I can .
First of all , like you said , it's going to take years , years and years before anything even happens on this lawsuit , assuming it's days that long and they don't both just like give up and cancel or whatever . But it's so broad Like I , I really it's broad .
What's the ? I can't remember the term , but isn't there a term for something that's been patented , but it's so like general ?
use technology ?
Yeah , that you can't even . It's like they almost know the patent , like I . There's a term for it , but I can't remember .
Yeah , I know what you're talking about , but yeah , I don't know what the term is , but like , yeah , something so ubiquitous , but like patenting video streaming technology that's used by probably everyone just seems like it might .
I could see it falling under something like that , but I'm not a legal expert and I have no idea of the ins and outs of this .
Or like a range of cloud computing technologies , including virtual networking infrastructure , Like okay .
Exactly . That's very vague .
Yeah . So yeah , this one seems like super frivolous . They both I don't know I can't say if Nokia's is or not , but like cause I don't know what prime video is delivered like , what technology is used to deliver prime video that's , I guess , different , or that Nokia specifically says I'll have to go back to the original article to to find that out .
But this one , this countersuit , really is more like a middle finger than anything you know , because I don't think I don't see it really going anywhere .
Okay , and last on the list for today , we got a article from datacenterdynamicscom and this is a kind of a roundup of how much money is being spent jockeyed around in the cloud space and it says here enterprise spending on cloud computing . This is enterprise spending specifically , which is $79 billion for Q2 2024 . Now , that's Q2 , that's a quarter of a year .
We're not talking about the whole year here . This research , Synergy Research , did this . I don't know if it was a poll or how they figured it out , but yeah , so this is AWS , GCP , Azure and even Oracle shows up in this one , along with one more . That's kind of a surprise . So this is actually up 22% from the same year over year .
Now , same quarter last year . This is up 22% , or an extra $14 billion of spending .
That's a small acquisition these days .
Right , I mean , of course , amazon , azure and G Suite led the pack with that . So Amazon still has the market share of about 32% According to this , microsoft's at 23% . I'm pretty sure that's grown . Google still says 12% , for the quarter of the spending of the 79 billion is what we're talking about here .
So GCP is still a distant third , at least on the cloud spending . I know that they're taking a lot of effort , a lot of things that they're doing to try to close the gap on that , but yeah , that's a crazy number . And then they go on to say things like the US dollar strengthening has helped with that a little bit , and so on and so forth .
One thing that was weird in here was talking about Salesforce , which we all were scratching our heads . What does Salesforce have to do with this ? So it specifically says that Oracle saw notable growth and is now tied with Salesforce as the fifth largest cloud provider . So show of hands , if you knew that Salesforce was a cloud provider .
For the people that are listening .
none of our hands are up , yeah yeah , yeah , Honestly , that was the strangest part of this entire article . I think it derailed every other thing we wanted to talk about when we were looking at this earlier . But those numbers , that number's absolutely insane , right One quarter . We're talking about just enterprise spending . Remember , this is enterprise $79 billion .
Now , that's not a specific technology , that's across all the cloud technologies .
Yeah . So my inkling or my suspicion here is that they're including SaaS specifically as a cloud provider , just because it runs on a cloud environment , which kind of makes sense , because , if you think about it , probably who's winning in that scenario are Google , microsoft , netflix probably Netflix , I would say , but they're not going to be targeted enterprise .
So probably next up in the equation maybe someone like Salesforce , netflix , the cloud provider .
Yeah , there you go .
If this was consumer then , yeah , they'd probably be way up in Apple and shit like that , but I think that's the thing , since they're not in play here . I don't know . Are we counting anything SaaS as cloud now , because that's like the lines are so blurred on this shit now .
Well , salesforce as a cloud provider . That's the part that really has me scratching my head , because what are they providing besides , outside of Salesforce ? If you provide Salesforce as a service , that's just a SaaS application . That's not a cloud Right which runs on AWS . That's a cloud provider , but that's the thing .
Hold on . Don't they pay their infrastructure costs to AWS , isn't that ?
contributing to AWS's money . I don't get it .
I kind of want to go Google around now and try to figure out who it is that believes Salesforce is a cloud provider . And if we got it wrong , what service is Salesforce allowing customers to do that ? Isn't Salesforce that uses their hosting or their platform , or whatever ?
I think the only other thing is it says this is the third consecutive quarter to see year-on-year growth of 20% or more . That's a lot considering that is insane .
Maybe Slipskib is right , all that cloud cost focus , it's done .
Oh yeah , everybody did their cloud optimization and we're back to full sense .
Yeah , baby well it'll .
It'll come back once the ai hype finally dies down .
I I think ai has a lot to do with this number . Truthfully , a lot , a lot to do with it . Yeah , so , and I think the ai hype will come down . I'm not saying ai itself is trash like it's not NFTs or anything , but I think a lot of money . Here's the thing .
One of the big reasons I think AI can't be successful as it is right now is that in order to generate a picture of a I don't know a woman with four breasts or something on mid-journey which is all these people are doing you got to like cut down the Amazon to make it happen .
That's what it takes , man . Yeah , but that's the thing I was like I wonder how much of this is spin from companies that are not AI focused . Right , like , like I guarantee you look at some of these and there's probably you know what there's like a billion AI companies out there . They're probably , they're probably contributing to a lot of the spend , right .
Yeah , for sure .
Exactly so how much of this is not them Like ? Have we reached that inflection point where it's really , you know , kind of profitable at this point , or is it still ?
I don't think so . I mean because ai is a service . The service that's being provided is so basic , like what about that ? Uh , what was it the one we did with the , the ai personal assistant that the guy was wearing or whatever he was reviewing it and how terrible it was ? That's that's .
That's actually typical , is my understanding of most of almost every ai product , whether it be physical or digital at the moment . Right , so it's who's paying for it been ?
an app . That is what mkbhd was saying . Like with all these products it's . The bottom line is , this could have just been an app and yeah , I think that's what why , honestly , I'm leaning more and more towards like . Open source is going to win . Places like Meta that are releasing these open models .
Are people going to continue to invest in giant tens of billions of dollars every year for these companies that want to have these models ? Open source , one can compete just as easily .
Alex is so Zuckerberg-pilled it's crazy .
Yeah , he really loves that new haircut .
He's a cuck for Zuck . It's the glow up man , zuck's glow up right ?
No , I'm just kidding . No , it does make sense , because I mean that , unfortunately , that's the thing I would like to see went out . I think , if we have the option , we're always going to choose open source . But we know open source doesn't drive revenue like anything else , so that's always the conundrum that we enter .
So would that make it there A hundred percent ? But you know , a girl can dream . I guess we have a guest on the pod .
Yep , yeah , the cat came in , so that must be .
Zelda is saying hello , zelda is saying hello . So , yeah , probably time to wrap up . I think that's why she's here , to let me know that it's time to feed her , or something .
All right . Well , yeah , we are going to go ahead
¶ Podcast Promotion and Closing Remarks
and wrap up . So thank you all for tuning in , whether you watched or listened , please like , subscribe , share , hit all the notification buttons , but , importantly , please share this around to anyone else that you you think might be interested . Interested in , uh , in what we talk about .
And uh , thanks for tuning in and we will talk to you guys in another week . Hi everyone , it's Alex and this has been the cables to clouds podcast . Thanks for tuning in today .
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Thanks again for listening and see you next time .