¶ Backpacking Foodie Tips With Erin Owens
Welcome back to the Byland podcast . My name is Emory . Thank you so much for being here . Welcome to Better Backpacking . This is episode 165 , and my guest today is Erin Owens , otherwise known as the Back Country Foodie .
Now , I started following Erin back in 2017 when she kicked off her PCT hike and I have to say it has been a pleasure watching her become what she is .
She has carved out a nice little niche for herself as the go-to foodie for all things backpacking and specifically through hiking , and the reason Erin is on the show today is because I had a moment last summer where I was on a backpacking trip , looking into my food bag and thinking I have got to do something different .
I was just bored of what I'd been eating and immediately Erin popped into my head . If you're not familiar with Erin and what she does , she has a massive passion for back country food and it is second to none , and she just so happens to be a dietitian , so she has the education to back up everything that she's doing .
I promise you that you will leave this episode with a ton of information , actionable things you can put into your next food bag on your next backpacking trip . But if , for some reason you're still struggling with the back country food thing , she's got you covered because she offers meal planning and shipping services . That's right .
She will literally plan and pack your meals for you . So all you have to do is put in your order , have it delivered , toss it in your backpack and go backpacking . How awesome is that ? Like I said , she's a foodie when it comes to back packing . So if you're struggling , enjoy your food in the back country . She can help .
Please take a minute to go to the show notes , check out the links , go to a website and check out all of the services she offers . There's recipes , there's shipping services , there's all kinds of stuff , and she enjoys doing it . So , yeah , I'm really excited to have her on the podcast today because , again , I'd like to learn as well .
I don't know everything . I want to get better , and Erin gave me a ton of tips and suggestions on how I can improve my own meals in the back country . If you like the podcast and you like what I'm doing here with Byland and you want to help me out , you can do so in a few ways .
First , if you or anyone you know it's new to backpacking , send them my way , because I have a beginner backpacking course called Learn how To Backpack that I designed specifically for beginners .
It is very affordable , it's easy to take , it's all online and it will get people up and going quickly , easily , and just get rid of all of that learning curve that happens early on , so you can kind of get out there and enjoy the good parts sooner rather than later . So send them my way .
That would be awesome if you know someone that is new to backpacking . Secondly , you can share the podcast with a friend , a colleague , or toss it on social media . That would be great . And if you're feeling frisky , you can also donate to the show through the link in the show notes to help me pay for all the things that go into producing a podcast .
There's subscriptions , there's hardware , software , all kinds of stuff . Even just a few bucks really does go a long way . So if you feel like you want to do that , you can donate to the show . But any of those options are a great way to support the show and I appreciate all of them .
To all of you that have donated recently or even in the past , thank you . I really , really appreciate it . It really does mean a lot . It's very encouraging that someone put their own donation into the podcast . It just makes me want to do more of them , so thank you . Thank you so much for your support . All right , please enjoy this episode with Aaron Owens .
Aaron , welcome to the podcast . I'm really excited to have you on . Yeah , thank you .
I'm excited to be here .
I believe or not . I think maybe you know , I don't know . I've actually followed you since your PCT . When was that Like 20 , did you go ?
2017 ? Yeah , we're coming on six years . Backcountry 50 is coming on six years , december 26 . So that was almost 70 years ago that I started the PCT . I started my 40th birthday March 26 of 17 .
What was the ? I have to know the backstory . I love getting to know well , because here's the thing I feel like the rest of this conversation . This is the launch pad for the rest of the conversation . I think , I could be wrong , but like at least for me , I found you when you were hiking the PCT and you were into food then .
But like I don't know your backstory on how you got to the PCT , I had a midlife crisis , okay , so I turned 40 in . January .
Maybe that's is that , when it happens , I was turning 40 and was miserable at work . I lived in Seattle at the time and my commute it turned into what were you doing for work ? I've been a clinical dietician my entire career , so at the time I'd been already 16 years as a clinical dietician Got it .
I'm living in Seattle , two hour commute each way , so I would get up at four to get to work at eight and then you get home when it's dark . I'm too tired to exercise . So it was just this awful cycle . I , you know , I had the house , I had the car , I had the relationship , I had all the things good job that you're supposed to have .
But I was still miserable . And then I started making really bad life decisions that my friends are picking up on in my family , one being this is a good story I met a guy . This was before I met my now husband , but I met a guy online .
He was a rock climber in the Philippines and never met him , flew to the Philippines , hiked around , climbed with him for a week and then we went to Bali for a week and then , luckily , I didn't die and he didn't do anything to me and came home and was like , okay , I really got to do something because that was a really bad life decision .
So that's when I decided like , what am I going to do with myself .
So I quit my job and decided I was going to hike the PCT because I figured five months is plenty of time to figure out , like , what is going on right now and then give me time to think about what am I going to do next and that's when the backcountry foodie thing started is that I had been a long distance trail runner at the time so and I was really
struggling keeping weight on because running four to eight hours at a time , I had to eat a ton of food . So I knew that if I was struggling to keep weight on doing that many miles one day a week , I'm going to keep the weight on doing 20 miles a day for , you know , five months straight .
So I started kind of panicking about that because at the time I'd only hiked up to five days was my longest hike ever and you probably , like you , knew too much Like you knew ? Yeah , I knew Right .
You knew too much Like a lot of people go into these hikes and they're like meh yeah no , I had already .
It was like , okay , I can't afford mountain house because it's too bulky , it's too expensive . And then I'd never made DIY backpacking food . So I started reading cookbooks and looking into all those things and then again , being the dietitian knowing too much , I was like these don't have enough carbs , this doesn't have enough protein , this doesn't have enough XYZ .
Okay , now what do I do ? So I just started tinkering in the kitchen , taking those available recipes , making them into what I needed them to do , and then I also learned about ultra light . I'd never heard about ultra light backpacking . I was somebody that carried a 35 pound pack .
And again .
I was like I can't carry this thing because I packed everything up like I normally was , like this is really heavy , like I got to knock some of this out .
So that's where also the ultra light food idea came in , as I tinkered everything's in the computer software so it's very nerdy , very numbers oriented and tinkered around enough to get recipes as small as possible , as much nutrition as possible . And then that's what I did .
I made 450 pounds of food , five months worth of food before I left and just took off on the trail . And then people what was kind of funny , I'd never had an Instagram account before . So this is like totally new to me , the social media thing , as I was a preceptor for students at the hospital .
They're like oh Aaron , you've totally got to get on Instagram , you got to share this with people . And then that's kind of how , as I went on my hike , I was starting to get direct messages like where are you ? Did you leave any food in the hiker box , like I'm totally into this . And then it just went on from there . And we're now six years later .
Now I have an online have a recipe platform , a nutrition coaching , a resupply service , and we just opened a shop for backpacking food three weeks ago , four weeks ago now .
So where's the shop ? Where's the shop ?
That's an online shop , a Shopify . Okay , got it Cool . It'll soon be physical because . I'm out growing my house . Yeah , I was gonna say where ?
where are you going to set up shop at ? On the physical location ?
So we're currently in my commercial kitchen . I just got my commercial kitchen license is in San Luis , the Vismo , California , so I'm looking for more in Orchid , California is where we live . So somewhere between here and there I'm going to look for some retail space and have my own kitchen and shop .
I love slow .
Yeah , it's nice . It's so nice to do it . I found the perfect little place that I'm really hoping I can get into .
Oh my gosh , san Luis , the Vismo . I've gone there so many times for work and I just every time I go there I'm like it almost feels like a second home . I drive through them like these old homes , the towns , cute , it's like just , oh man , that whole area . But the whole area is like very , very nice , especially if you like wine .
Oh , that too . Well , and we're an hour to the mountains . I mean there's , we're close to the beach or close to the mountains . I mean everything's right here and it's after living in Seattle the commute it takes me 10 minutes to get anywhere Instead of two hours .
So I really I never thought I would like California , but I've really fallen in love with the Central Coast .
Oh for sure , and it's very funny . I live in Portland or right across the river from Portland , and I feel like it's very not that they're the same , but the idea of that you're kind of centrally located . You can go do a lot of different things . Interesting . How did you were you into backpacking at the time Was through hiking on your radar at this time ?
It had been on my radar for a while . It's something that I wanted to do . I don't think I thought about it as intensely as I did when I was like I really need to do something Again . I started backpacking in 2001 . And I'll never forget that very first trip
¶ Backpacking Nutrition and Mindset Change
. Blue jeans long sleeve cotton shirt and a RAI backpack that didn't fit and mountaineering boots .
It was awful , all the things you just don't do so .
Yeah , I'd already been backpacking , but , like I said , three to five days was the most . I'd ever done so this was , and I'd actually asked for the time off and my boss said you can't take the time off . So I was like , well , I'm out then , Because I'm pretty unhappy and I'm too young to be unhappy .
So I'm going to do this and I'll just figure it out when I get back .
How did that did it ? What'd you do when you got back ? See , I don't know what happened after you got back .
So well , I ended up getting injured early on . I hurt my shoulder , so then I went home and rehabbed . I was like , okay , I quit my job , I have five months worth of food left . Now what do I do ?
So I jumped on that place on trail and then I jumped on the AT and midway at Harper's Ferry because that's where the bubble is starting to hit and then the AT and the PCT hiking are totally different . So I was in PCT kind of shape and not AT .
So I ended up tearing my quad muscle 500 miles in on the AT and then that was kind of the end of the season 2017 . And then , because people were still really excited about the foodie thing , I was like , okay , now what do I do ? I decided to write a cookbook in 2018 when I got back , and then I don't like to write and kind of the cookbook .
I didn't like that , which is why we have the online platform now , as I like to share , as I create . I didn't want to have to create , hold on to everything like two other recipes , and then I share them kind of thing for paper , for cookbook purposes . So that's why we transition to the online platform that we have today .
Oh cool , wow , I didn't , so you didn't bring any . You made all of your own food that year .
I'll never do five months in advance again , but yes , I made all my own food . I haven't eaten and I haven't made a pre-made meal since then .
I've made all my food for the last six , seven years .
So when people ask well , can you recommend like a commercial meal , I can't because I haven't eaten one ? I have no idea .
Wow , that's incredible . See , here's the thing . So the reason why I wanted to chat with you is one I think a lot of people . I find that it's like gear and it's food that people struggle with . It's like dialing in their gear and I would say that , like , the gear thing is easily solvable . I mean that's easily fixable . The food thing not so much .
And I have horror stories in my past with not eating the right food and then my diet on the PCT . I struggled for the like most people struggle for the first couple hundred miles trying to figure out like what the heck is my body Like ? I was just bonk all the time .
I mean , I remember one time I was I just took a break and I just had just eaten lunch . We get up and we're on the middle , in the middle of a hill . I start hiking and like five or 10 minutes later I was like like just bonking right . It's like what the heck is wrong with me ? And I took a break eight to pop tarts .
And then it was like I was right as rain and I started going but I didn't know what was happening . And then I mean , I know , this is horrible . I've talked to Kyle , my buddy , about this as well , but for me pastries just forced me up the trail Like I did .
the junk food .
Yeah , I just did the junk food diet . I caved and I felt the best eating that kind of stuff . It was terrible for my teeth . I had a lot of cavities at the end of the trail , oh gosh , but that was like my . That's what ended up working for me .
On the trail , I hit a wall this last year where I was like I don't want to do this anymore , like I just like my . I was just I've been eating the same stuff all the time and I know what my body needs .
But like I think I'm just in the different mindset , like I'm starting to take my little girls backpacking , I'm doing weekend trips and more like enjoyable , not trying to crush miles , type food type trips . So I need food that goes along with that .
Like I want to , I guess , eat , when I say better , I want to eat , I want to eat , taste your food and different food . So and I think a lot of people are in the same boat Like they just eat the same things all the time . Do you , did you ever struggle with that , or did you ?
Or do you struggle with eating the same stuff all the time , or do you have a diverse menu that you eat from ?
Actually , this is the one thing I like to focus on and like you're saying you're eating pop , tarts and those kinds of things is I try to encourage people to continue what you normally eat at home into the back country , because that's what you're used to metabolizing , you're used to getting those energy sources , the fiber sources and those kind of things .
So that's why my recipes are just regular food . They're just regular pastas or regular bean dips , they're regular hummus , they're just something you would normally eat at home but they're in a dry form . So then you feel you don't feel like you're eating something that's totally different .
Which is kind of going back to what you're saying a second ago , is that I also like to treat or teach people to think of yourself as an athlete , because that's what I've noticed with my coaching customers is that they will look at their home diet and then look at their hiking diet .
Is that their hiking diet will be less food than what they normally eat at home . So we do a lot of let's look at what you normally do and then we boost on top of that . So once people kind of change their mindset that I am an athlete , what other ? I like to think of it this way as a sport .
What other sport do you carry a heavy backpack , you're doing 10 to 15 miles a day . You're sleeping on the ground , you know . You're doing an inclement weather , you're doing elevation change , I don't know . I mean even triathletes . They get to go home and eat a pasta dinner , you know that kind of thing .
So I think it's just a mindset change to fuel , use food as fuel and then try to eat just regular things . So yeah , as for repeating , I don't really I have a problem with repeating because I get bored with food , so I like to eat lots of different things all the time . So does that answer your question ? Yeah , I mean .
I just want to be able to look in my bag and be like , oh cool , this is like . I don't want to eat for sustenance , I want to eat . I just want to . I'm like yeah , I want to enjoy what I'm eating , but I but I don't personally know how to do that .
So , going back to the eating what you eat at home and going and then doing that on trial , I will say that that sounds very familiar because I think a lot of people separate the two things and they're like this is what I eat in the back country and this is what I eat at home . I mean , I do that myself .
Do you have examples or guidance on how to reframe your mind for people Like I don't know how to explain this , but a lot of times , even after the PCT , I find myself when I'm gearing up for a backpacking trip . I'm like I don't even know where I'm supposed to start , like I'm losing .
I sometimes I lose track of , and it's embarrassing because you'd think by now I would have it down . But that's like super . What I have down is very one dimensional . I want to like expand it out
¶ Hiking Nutrition and Calorie Calculator
. So when you're getting ready for a backpacking trip or when someone's getting ready , where should they start ? What's like a good starting point for that .
It's actually not as complicated as you think .
I try to really simplify .
I really try to simplify things so it doesn't feel so overwhelming . So , going back to the what you eat at home , translating into the back country so if you tend to eat cold cereal in the morning at home , then do like bran flakes and everything's dry , and that's the other thing I try to do is everything's just dry ingredients based .
I don't do a lot of making fresh and dehydrating because we're all busy , we don't have time to do that .
Right .
So an example would be whatever like your cold cereal , if you do a bran flakes or something and then do some sort of milk powder whether you're vegan , you use almond powder , soy , milk powder , dairy powder and then a boost it . This is where the extra nutrition comes from .
As a hiker is add some pecans , add some walnuts , add some raisins , add some coconut , add some extra something to give it a little more of a boost , and then you just have a normal breakfast . Just add water , eat it with a spoon , you're done . I particularly fond of yogurt parfaits at home . I eat yogurt , berries and granolas for my normal breakfast .
So you use freeze dried yogurt which you can get in the baby food aisle they're just little baby yogurt mounds and then I crush them up and add water and it turns right into yogurt , Put a little bit of granola in there and some berries and then you've got like a normal breakfast . So similar kind of thing . Like I love , hummus is what I normally have .
Pretzels and hummus is like a regular lunch for me at home . So there's actually I'm going to give a shout out to mother of products . They have an amazing hummus mix . It's just add water , add a little bit of olive oil , dip it with pretzels and there's the lunch . I mean super duper easy .
And what about like caloric intake , like that breakfast , like a breakfast parfait , or this , the other one you mentioned ? I know a lot of people are obsessed with calories and you mentioned like a boost . Is that where you're talking about ? Like the boost in calories ? Right ?
So that's going from your normal breakfast to , like , your hiking . So you need to eat more when you're hiking backpacking than you do at home . So it's kind of like start with my normal home and then add more to it . Ok , and as for how many calories , we actually spend an entire year building a calorie calculator .
I don't know if I mentioned this when we were chatting before .
No , no , no .
So I was super frustrated with the calorie calculators online because they produce horrible estimations , being that there's so many variables , like I was mentioning before your backpack weight , your type of trail that you're on , the elevation , the altitude , the temperature , and then a lot of the capric .
Later , excuse me , you also have to think about your base of metal ball . Great , we're going to get a little nerdy here .
Let's do it , let's start out .
Men are different than women . A five foot two person is different from a six foot two person . One hundred twenty pound person is different from a two hundred twenty five pound person , so those aren't taken into account in a lot of the online calculators . So we built one that has 14 variables .
It is like every possible variable that you can think of and it took us an entire year to build out the algorithm to mesh all those together . And it's a free resource on a website . So and I've checked it against all my trips and it's spot on to what I've used before . So I really believe in that . The number that's estimated is accurate .
So that's kind of a resource we're trying to really get people to use . So you don't have to think about the calories . Yeah Well , I had an algorithm specialist , as much smarter when it comes to calculus and those kind of things .
But yeah , another dietician and I've read all the research that's out there .
It's based on military equations , the Olympic Committee , elite athletes , so we just meshed all these different equations that are out there from the research . It's not me just making up numbers , right ? And then , yeah , my algorithm guy plugged in Because it would have taken me a half an hour to do this math . I mean it's just crazy math .
And then we had a plug in guy build it for us . So , yeah , it took a team of four to make it happen , but it did take us an entire year to work out all the kinks and make sure everything jives and it provided an estimate that was accurate . So how does it work ?
So if I wanted to use the calculator to find out my , to find out my caloric needs for what I'm doing , what's my input ?
So it goes through your height , your age , your weight , your backpack weight , what distance you're covering . And here's another key thing that the other calculators don't do is is it a day hike or an overnight trip ?
Because a lot of the online , because a day hike is the calories are while you're actively hiking , so that could be three hours , five hours , An overnight trip . You're burning calories while you're sleeping . You're burning calories while you're sitting in camp .
So there's a significant difference from how many calories you're burning while you're physically moving versus a 24 hour time period . So that's where I was finding significant . Oh yeah .
When you yeah , I mean just because you're burning calories .
You're burning calories , I mean just being alive . For me is 1500 calories . So if the calculator only does like 2000 calories while I'm actively moving , I'm already deficient 1500 because it didn't take in what I need to just breathe in my heart to pump .
Oh dude , what Wait ? Okay , so these other calculators are only calculating daytime activity , like activity burn not like . Here's your , what your body burns up , just being alive in 24 hours Right . Oh , I didn't know . Huge difference .
So that's where I was seeing that hikers were relying on these calculator outputs . But there's like it's not right and most people don't know what I know about knowing to add on extra calories for your basal metabolic rate . You know , just being alive , how are you ?
able to achieve . So , okay , do you have a like a person like me ? I'm like I'm 40 , like five , eight , 160 . If I go on a 30 , like a fire , 20 miles a day , generally , is that . I mean , is there like a round estimate of how much I would need ?
It's all because every hiker is different , your body types are different , your age is different , the terrain is different and just being a lot of people don't know this just standing at altitude above 12,000 feet , your basal metabolic rate , just to live , increases by 30% . Just standing there , just standing there .
What is ? What happens when our bodies don't reach this like calorie ? What happens when we're deficient ?
I should say that's when you hit the wall like you're talking about . That's when you run out of energy . You start getting cranky or hangry . I know myself well enough to where I start stumbling because my legs start getting really wobbly , and my husband knows now too that he's like you're starting to stumble , you're tripping , you need to stop and eat something .
So I've learned what my body does when I'm not eating enough . And then you're just risking getting especially if you're doing some mountaineering things , if you're starting to get like really depleted , you're risking getting injured .
And I actually have a story where I fell off the side of the mountain and landed on a tree limb and then paled my leg and had to quit my trip early and go to the emergency room and get stitches .
I was too focused on hiking and having a good time and didn't eat , and then I just depleted myself and , off the side of the mountain , I went into a tree .
Does calorie deficiency hit people different ? Everyone ? Does everyone look different how it hits ?
them .
Everybody's a little different . Yeah , like mental fog or physical impacts , right , some people get really , really cranky .
I physically get the jello leg . So everybody kind of gets a little bit different , something different . Some people get headaches , so it's just kind of noticing .
And that's what I found when I first started hiking is that I thought it just sucked Like I thought you're just cranky , I thought I just heard it all the time , you know , I thought it was just this .
But once I started focusing on feeding myself , that went away and then I enjoyed the hike more , because then I was like okay , I'm sore because this is a really hard climb , not because my body's mad at me , because I haven't put enough fuel in it .
Man , I feel like people need to know that that was like one of the first .
That's why I have a job .
I mean that's one of the things I try to . I mean that's why I started doing what I do , because I'm like , once I realize that backpacking doesn't suck , like the hard part about backpacking should be the physical portion , the physical exertion yeah the physical exertion , or , oh , I'm mentally challenging myself .
¶ Solo Backpacking Nutrition and Wellness
If it's not that , like you shouldn't have pain from your backpack , you shouldn't be angry and like no energy . Those are all fixable problems and the cool thing is about that like it's not uncomfortable , it's not painful .
It doesn't have to be that way . It doesn't have to be Exactly .
We need to talk right and you're just going at it from the food standpoint , which is so huge because my first real backpacking trip . I do this annual trip around Helens , so it's like 30 miles , and the first time I did it it was my . I would say that it was my first real backpacking trip and because it was a few days of sustained back .
It was supposed to be a few days of sustained backpacking , but we ended up doing it in two days and I'd never done that before .
And that's a tough hike . I know that one . Yeah , it's not , it's fairly tough right .
Yeah , for some reason it's like 30 miles that are . It's just hard on the body . For some reason the trail conditions are kind of rough . There's not quality trail but it's just kind of rugged and I did it . I agreed to do it in two days and I didn't eat much for the first .
I was trying to keep up with the guy that I was hiking with and I didn't set myself on a schedule to eat . I didn't stop myself and so and I wasn't eating and I wasn't drinking , and it all caught up to me at like 10 miles and I was by then I was so far gone .
It takes hours to recover .
Yeah , I couldn't eat . You know the feeling where you're like I can't physically eat anything . We had five more miles to go . I was basically begging this guy like I need to stop crawled into my tent and just pretended I didn't exist . I couldn't eat anything and he was totally fine .
I don't remember what he was doing eating or drinking or anything but I just had not fed my body and it was 10 miles of pretty rugged country and I was Done . It was done . I was cooked . He gave me some tea and that helped with my appetite to where I was able to eat a meal and go back to sleep . I'll never forget that trip .
I learned my lesson and then , going fast forward to the PCT , I just put myself on . I'm the guy that I have to eat every hour Something . I have to eat something every hour . It doesn't need to be a full meal , but I need like a couple hundred calories every hour , it appears , and that's the way it should be Every 60 to 90 minutes .
If you're actively hiking , then you should be at least nibbling on something , Because it only takes one to three hours to completely deplete your carbohydrate stores in your body . So , depending on the intensity of what you're doing , it could only be 60 minutes and then you're done .
Or if it's a less intense hike , then you've got about three hours' worth of stored energy and then you're going to be done .
And one of what you're talking about .
your situation is I'm a solo hiker . Now Because of that reason is that I have to follow schedule , so I might hike with somebody and I'm like I got to stop and take a break , eat my snack , you can keep going , I'll catch up with you , kind of thing , because I learned my lesson .
Similar situation is trying to keep up with people not following my schedule and you feel terrible .
The peer pressure of hiking . It's terrible , it is the worst thing ever , because you feel like you need to keep going . When I go with someone , if I'm hiking and I know that I'm more in shape or I'm better equipped , I make sure that I check in with that person all the time and we're not going further than what we need to be .
And I'm just like I'm eating right now , like we're doing this Like sorry , and I'm the same way like . I'd much rather hike alone , because I perform way better hiking alone .
Well , and I follow my own pace too . That's what happened on the AT is that I met this amazing trail family and it was like I got to hustle , hustle , hustle because I want to keep up with them , but then I pushed myself so hard that I tore my quad muscle .
So now I actually enjoy my hikes a lot more because I'm not hustling and I've just become more comfortable with being by myself , which , being a female , it's harder because we're worried about critters , men , all those kind of things .
So I think a lot more women are at more risk of this happening because they want to keep up with somebody if they don't necessarily feel as comfortable being by themselves .
You know it's funny . I'm actually wrapping up . I'm writing a solo backpacking course to help people push past that barrier and it's more of like a personal development course over more than anything else . Like there's no skills involved with solo backpacking for the most part . Like if you can go backpacking , you can do it by yourself .
You can go by yourself but the getting to that point of like being okay , being alone out there takes some work . So I've , like it's called , six weeks to solo backpacking that's what I'm going to launch it as , and it's literally just like exposure therapy , like to the outdoors and then get to that place because backpacking alone is really , really fun .
And it's free . And it's like you get a notification for me .
I mean , backpacking with people is fun too , but there's something different about going alone . It's empowering , and you can just . I remember the first time I ever hiked alone , by myself . I remember thinking I was like oh , I can do anything I want , I can stop here , or I don't have to stop here to Lake for as long as you want .
You can push up and over as long as you can stop , for you know dinner whenever you want . Go to bed as early as you want .
Yeah , it's so fun . What are your thoughts on the junk food diet as a dietitian ?
I think it's more age related . Younger people can get away with it because they're able to recover easier . They've got more energy . I've even just noticed in the last five years I need to really pay attention to what I eat . I don't recover nearly as well if I eat the junk food diet . That's also not what I normally eat on a regular day .
My body freaks out like what is all this sugar ? Where's the extra protein , the car , these kinds of things you normally function on ? For me personally , it doesn't work very well . I've just noticed that with my customers too . The older hikers do a lot better when they pay more attention to it . Younger hikers , you can usually get away with it .
I've noticed it be more age related .
When you say that one of the things I was curious about you mentioned the importance of keeping your day-to-day diet and transitioning that to the field . Can you expand on why that's important or what happens to your body when you all of a sudden just shift your diet ?
I would imagine it's similar to if you travel and all of a sudden you're now eating food in the airport or on the road and something changes in your body . I think people notice that in their bodies as well , but I don't really know what's happening . Can you go down that rabbit hole for us ?
¶ Understanding Junk Food in Backpacking
Junk food diet and I also believe no food is a bad food . That's the thing too is I do have my snickers , I do have my gummy bears , I do have those things . When I consider junk food diet , I think of that as a whole picture . You're consistently eating lots of processed sugars , which will give you , like you're saying , your pop tarts .
It gives you an energy boost , but a lot of those don't have the complex carbohydrates which actually level out that energy for a longer period of time . A lot of the simple sugar foods don't have the protein .
That's also going to even out that , because protein takes longer to digest than simple sugars just being like cane sugar , those simple corn syrup , those kind of things that are in a lot of processed foods .
So the protein will slow down your digestion , give your energy a longer time period and also , again being an older person , I just recover better because I'm using my muscles and I just need that to feel better the next day . The other thing a lot of processed foods don't have fiber .
So if you're used to eating fruits and veggies , salads , those kind of fresh fruit in your daily diet I'm a dietitian I'm not worried about talking about poop , but you could have bowel problems .
I mean , when we say something shifts , I would say , 90 people get backed up .
Yeah , Like that's when everyone complains about it .
Yeah , that's what everyone complains about is like they just get backed up .
Yep , and then the opposite can happen too . So a lot of hikers that I found want to be ultra light hikers , so they really focus on using olive oil being the most chlorically dense food possible . So they douse everything in olive oil that can actually make you really loose .
So if you suddenly go to the super high-fat diet that you're not used to , you have the opposite problem , so you can have really loose stools instead of getting backed up . So that's something I recommend people do is like , don't jump into the super high-fat diet if that's not something you're used to doing .
Just kind of slowly ramp it up if that's what you want to use to add some more calories to your diet .
So that's why it's important to like is it hard on your body to do that , to make that transition if you go from daily food to just your backpacking food being drastically different , is it hard on your body ?
I made that mistake on the PCT the first week because I was focused so much on getting all these calories in and adding olive oil before I'd done this whole new diet thing . And I mean I did , I got really loose stools and I'm like what is going on ? You know , this is not my norm .
So , for me it happened within the first couple of days and again , I think everybody's different and to the degree that you change your diet , I think it's going to make a difference too .
So if you go from eating really complex carbs whole grains , you know those things fruits and veggies , to suddenly sour patch kids you know gummy bears , you know Pop Tarts , all those things that are significantly different , you'll probably notice a lot sooner Then .
If you just don't want to Pop Tarts for breakfast but you still eat like tortillas with some other things at lunch that have similar things to what you're used to . If you're used to eating peanut butter and jelly for lunch , you know that kind of thing , so on .
So the junk food . Am I understanding this correctly that you approach it as more of like a ? Would you use junk food like a Snickers as like a tool in your food ? Like to as like a ? Ok , I need a quick shot of sugar and energy , but I also need to level it out . With what . Would you level it out with Like , if you ?
Eat a Snickers for how would you employ a Snickers , I guess ?
And I also believe in happy foods , so there's times where I like to have this is where I just know makes me happy If I'm having a really crappy day on trail . Snickers always make me happy and licorice is my go to . So if I'm really struggling and I just need a quick energy boost , like licorice is my go to that .
I know I need to follow that up with something better well , not better , but with complex carbs , that kind of thing because licorice is going to give me that boost to like I'm really struggling and I'm not quite to the top of the climb . I'll pop one of those , but that energy might be depleted by the time I get there . And now you have to go back down .
So this is where I was saying going down , I don't need wobbly legs going down the other side , I need to have my legs strong , otherwise I'm going to go tumbling down . So I think , like you said , I think there's a purpose , a reason to use those and different timing to use those Snickers .
I believe it's actually a good food because it's carbs , protein and fat all in one . So I don't feel like it's a bad food and if you have a smile on your face , then I think it's totally fine .
So when do you ? So , if you're going to eat a Snickers , when do you eat it ? And then what do you do ? You eat it with something .
It's usually my kind of set aside food that when I'm really struggling and I need energy it's kind of like my set aside food . That just kind of lives . It's a part of my like my emergency kit .
You know , like I'm really struggling , I need a boost or I'm just really cranky and I know this is going to make me happy , so it's just kind of one of those things I set aside to have when I need it .
Walk me through . You make these food bags , for which I want to get to here in a minute , but when you make meal plans for people , can you give me a general outline of like what a day of food looks like , because I think a lot of people like me A lot of times I just need some ideas on like what ?
What are some ideas that I can put in my bag that make sense for backpack ? And one of the things I appreciate about you is that you have this dietitian background . You understand that weight is important .
You also like to eat food and you know you like to just you like to taste things and your recipes , the things you put out , I'm like like I remember I saw the whole yogurt parfait thing and I was like , what the heck ? How have I never like , how have I never thought about this stuff ? You know what I mean it's like .
But once you see it , I remember reading some of your recipes I was like , oh , that makes total sense , but I can't get my brain there because I'm not like a food person , right ?
So when you build out like a day's worth of food for someone , can you give me like a general feel for what you're doing what that looks like like breakfast snacks , lunch , dinner and the snacks in between , and how you , why you have it that way ?
Well , and one of the things I think is really important too is all my meal plans are customized . I don't like to share meal plans on our website , because you know what time you wake up is different from your partner .
You know what time you like to take a break , what time you some people don't like to eat breakfast , still have their coffee and then start eating . So all my meal plans are completely customized based on what your hiking strategy is like , what your day looks like , so each meal plan could look very different Right now .
Right now , I'm working with a gal that's going to do the AT . She doesn't like eating a lot in the morning , so she has coffee which has zero calories in it , so we're actually going to switch it to . And I don't know if you know about my meal replacement drinks . I believe heavily in them .
I remember hearing about them yeah .
Yeah . So essentially what they are is they're some sort of milk based . There's some sort of protein in there , the carb , so it's kind of this full meal in a shake , eight ounces or so . You get all your nutrition , carbs and everything . So they work really well when you're not hungry or if you just need a quick thing on the go .
So what we're going to do for her is have like a half serving in the morning , because she likes to eat lunch or eat breakfast about an hour after she gets going . And her breakfast she loves eating cereal at home . So we're going to do one of those cereal combinations . So cereal could it could be a cold cereal .
If you like to cook , it could be an oatmeal , and this is what I see a lot of hikers doing . It's just a packet of oatmeal that's like a hundred calories . That's not going to sustain you . So do oats at some kind of milk base , add nuts , coconut Coconut's kind of my go-to secret weapon .
It's tons of calories but it doesn't add a lot of flavor and then dried fruit in there . So you go from a hundred calorie packet to a 600 calorie meal and it's not hard .
They're all just normal things you get at the grocery store and then , like we were talking about so , then , the next thing about how many hours in between your breakfast meal and your lunch and we talked about eating every six to 90 minutes .
So insert snacks in between and then that could be whether it's a handful of nuts , a bar , you know , a gel , if you need like a quick boost . I don't know goldfish . I love teas . It's it's kind of my junk food , but I love them because they're salty and they're crunchy , they high in calorie .
Yeah , I think there are 130,000 people in the country who are eating .
Don't quote me , but I think they're about 130 calories per ounce . Pita chips are really good to . Plantain chips are actually another awesome one . I use those as almost like an electrolyte supplement too , because they've got tons of potassium , tons of sodium on them you know , and there are lots of carbs . There's fat in there .
So that's part of my ultra light planning is every bite of food has all macronutrients in it carbs , protein and fat , so every . If you can maximize every bite , then you actually eat less food . So an example I'm kind of getting off on another no , no , no , keep going , keep going . So I'm like ingesting all of them .
I'm trying to like okay , cool , this is like a read . Food is the thing that I have to . I have to like continually teach myself about .
So what I noticed ? You know there's a kind of typical hiker um tortilla , tuna and something else , whatever you add in there . So the tortillas , your good source of carbs , the tuna is your source of protein and , let's say , maybe you put some mayonnaise in there , make it kind of like a tuna salad thing .
Yeah , you have three different things you have to eat and they're fairly heavy versus if you were to eat something like . I say this in all my podcasts I love quinoa because there's carbs , protein and fat in every single bite , so you can actually eat a smaller volume of food and get the nutrition you need .
It weighs less , takes up less space and has more fiber . You know those kind of things , instead of having to pack three different things to get that kind of nutrition . Um , so that's where I call it . Combination foods is kind of my what I call it , what I call for .
That that makes sense Um so , yeah , so , going back to the plan , so inserting snacks and then knowing how many calories you go back to , using that calorie calculator , you just kind of divide up your day . And then lunch , whatever , if you like a short lunch , if you want to like do something on the go , like a shake is really easy for on the go .
Uh , if you are a cold soaker , I love pasta salads . Um , we can go on and on and on about cold soaking .
Um , yeah , please . So that's like a whole nother thing .
So cold soaking is like a whole nother thing . Um , I did it for the entire Oregon coast trail . I'll never do it again , but I have learned things that make it better . Okay , Um
¶ Planning and Preparing Trail Meals
. So yeah , whatever your lunchtime might look like , if it's something that you want to sit and have like an hour , or if you want something quick , um , it doesn't have to be a solid meal , it could just be you know some snack bars , you know energy bars , nuts , whatever fits your style .
And then think about how many hours is it going to take you to get to dinner , to finish . So sometimes dinner , or , excuse me , by the time you finish your day , you may only have another hour worth of hiking , so you might only need one more snack and then you wait until dinner time .
Or , if you're not going to finish hiking until seven or eight , make sure you're still eating every hour to every hour and a half . So insert snacks and then dinner is same thing . Think about plenty of carbs , because you probably may not have kept up all day long , so you need to replenish the carbs you burned .
I think really heavily on protein to get you to recover for the next day .
Yeah , I was going to ask you if protein comes in heavily at night .
I shoot for 20 to 25 grams . You don't have to go over and above like huge amounts , because your body can only utilize so much . So , and we're most of us aren't body builders , we're not , you know , ingesting huge quantities of protein .
So the sweet spot from what I read in the research is 20 to 25 grams , and it's usually not very hard to get that much . Um , so yeah , and other thing , kind of a trick , you're getting all my golden nuggets . You're getting like everything I teach in all my classes on one podcast .
Um , so the other thing is that if you're camping in cold weather , a lot of people think like , oh , I need fat . That's a slow burning fuel , like that'll keep me warmer at night . But it's actually protein . And getting into metabolism , the thermic effect of food , it's how much energy is burned from using the food . It produces heat .
Protein produces more heat than fat does . So if you have a higher protein dinner , you're actually going to increase your body temperature faster . Um , if you're sleeping in the cold , so a lot of the women that I work with that struggle with staying warm , then that's we do like a peanut butter packet before they go to bed .
So you've got some of that slow burning fuel , the fat , but then you've also got this boost of protein to kind of get you warm , um yeah , so there's kind of a day , okay , and so everybody's unique , just kind of insert what works for your style , um , and then yeah , and then between these , like how , how many calories generally do you like for me ?
I shoot , I guess we already covered it to 300 calories for like that . That in between snack like that's 68 . Okay , so I'm not that feels it makes me feel good , because that's usually I find myself when I do my snacks on the trail . I'm not sitting down for very long Cause .
Usually , especially if I'm by myself , I sit down for like 10 minutes max , right , like I literally just sit down , eat and then I'm rolling again and it's well and I've gotten to where I have self care I have to stretch .
So that's kind of my I'm taking a bite stretching , taking a bite stretching .
And then all this leads like yeah , oh , my gosh Care is not very important to me .
Yeah , I didn't worry about stretching when I was 20 .
Oh man , I'm getting real . My , my IT band is so tight .
Yeah , I feel like my dad carry one of those scrapers now I don't know what they're called . But I scraped the fascia . Yeah , and it doesn't feel good , but I feel much better the next day , so that's part of my routine .
Oh yeah , I should probably do that , I just it's so painful .
It doesn't feel good . No , no , I feel better overall . That's awesome .
Okay , cool , so I'm not like way off on my timing or my estimated color , can take on my breaks . I think for me it's just a , and it's fascinating that you say that , like I'm the tortilla tuna guy , for lunch I was even doing tortilla and my favorite meal on the PCT through Washington .
I'm not kidding around , I would get done eating it and for some reason , for like the 500 miles of Washington , this is what I ate and I never got tired of it . I would go tortilla , salami , easy cheese . I would bring an easy cheese . First time I packed in my buddy's like , are you packing easy cheese ? And it's not very lightweight . Clearly Right .
But dude , I don't know what it was , but man , that kind of changes when you're through hiking .
It really did . It's weird stuff .
It was probably because I was doing the most miles I'd done on the trail through Washington . So , and I noticed that's when I dropped the most amount of weight . I dropped weight consistently on the trail Through there . But then when I started doing no less than 25 to 27 miles a day through Washington , I just the weight just fell right off .
So I was and I was just , but that was my , that was my meal for lunch and I would get done eating . I was like , oh , I want to have another one , but I couldn't you know because you're like timed out .
You know , I gotta get , I gotta , I gotta save this one for tomorrow .
So , yeah , it's funny . Yeah , and that's the other thing about those trails is that you're or you know like a long hunt or something like that , or you know you're out for a couple of days . How do you battle palette changes in your in ?
your packs .
That's tough .
That's tough , because normally at home I like nuts when I backpack I can't stand them , so I think it's just a matter of like , more and more .
Yeah , it's just a matter of more and more experience .
Like being out in the back country , more you learn what you really like and what you don't like . I never eat cheese . It's on my regular days at home , but they just . It's one of my happy foods . I love them .
They're salty , they're crunchy , it's just one of those things that I do . You know they're salty .
They're crunchy .
Oh , there's crunchy , but it's not that much there's crunchy but it's not something I ever eat at home .
But , it's just something that I've learned , that really like that kind of thing and even my favorite preferences have changed over the years . I think , like bars I mean so many bars . The past couple of years I couldn't touch them , but now that I went without them I'm trying a lot of new flavors , new companies and I'm liking them again .
Do you have any favorites off the top of your head right now ?
Right now I'm trying the yes bars . Oops , and they are so good and they're calorically dense . I'm actually including them in all of our new meal kits now because they're about one hundred and fifty calories per ounce , which is unheard of for bars .
And then the bearded brothers have switched over to those , and the other reason why I like these is they're calorically dense . They're tiny . So , yeah , like pro bar meals , I can't eat one of those . It's like a calorie bomb in my stomach . There's just like this brick . That is just too much .
So I'm on the hunt for like tiny little bars that are like three bites and then I'm done kind of thing .
Are you the kitchen ? Let's let's transition to what you're up to , because I feel like you've just doused everyone with a ton of knowledge .
Brain spinning yeah .
Your kitchen that you opened you are . What are you doing in your kitchen ?
So how I moved into the kitchen is this past season I started a resupply service so it was a custom service to where I built food boxes for hikers , because it's one of those things that I learned like people are really struggling getting the food that they want on the trail , especially if you have special diets , whether you're gluten free , dairy free , whatever
it is that you have that I was like you know what there's . I love making resupply boxes . It's a weird passion . It is very strange , it's very strange , but I've been doing it for all my hikes , like I never go to the grocery store .
The one person in the world that likes to resupply , Like you know . It really gets me up in the morning , Resupply boxes .
I love resupply boxes and I'm good at it . I'm super organized , it's something I enjoy doing . So that's what I started this season was building boxes for hikers and then just realizing that I can only help so many people . So that's why we built the shop to where now I'm making all the meals in the large volumes we have .
You can't see around the corner of my house , but we have three eight foot tall shelving units that are all just bars and snacks and all those kind of things . So now I can pull those from the bins , put them in a box and get them out the next day kind of thing .
¶ Freeze Drying and Backpacking Food
So I've taken my recipes . That other reason why I'm going to the commercial kitchen is my customers , through our meal planning site , have been begging for me to make them . Like , aaron , I love your food but I don't have time to make it . Would you just make it for me ?
And I've been hesitant all these years because it's like , is that going to take the fun out of it ? You know like I've been putting it off and putting it off , but then I realized just that's just one more way that I can help people and I am good at it . I do enjoy doing it . So we moved into the commercial .
I started out and caught it through this season , and now I've moved into the commercial kitchen just a few weeks ago , so now I'm making hundred , a hundred servings at a time .
Are you ? Is all the ingredients that you're doing ? Is it already dry ?
It's all dry ingredients based .
Yeah , no cooking . It's essentially all amusing my recipe is just mixing .
It's easy work and just doing it for people . So I'm taking the top recipes that people really love from our membership site and just making them for them and packaging them up . And now they're just get on the website , pull out your favorites and then off you go . Nothing fancy , that's so cool .
I feel like there was a spike in outdoor food , like meals and stuff like that , and then I feel like it seemed like there was a lot of options for a short period of time and then they all collapsed . They all went away , but I feel like there's such a need for it , so I'm excited to see have you ? You've messed around with freeze dryers .
Yes .
What are your thoughts ? I have a home free .
I love mine . I have a home freeze dryer , but it can't keep up with what ?
I'm doing right now .
So as soon as I have enough sales coming in , I'm going to buy a couple of commercial ones . But yeah , the home quality of a freeze dryer home freeze dryer is so much better than that's what I'm actually struggling because I know the berries that I dried myself are just so much better than what I have to buy .
So I'll eventually get to where I can afford an enormous commercial freeze dryer .
What would be your plan with that ? Would you actually be ? Would you just be making your own ? Would you be making meals and then freeze , drying them ? Or would you be getting organic barriers and things like that ?
Just organic berries , bananas , vegetables and those kind of things . Because for me , believe it or not , I don't like to cook . I don't like to be in the stove and cook . Drying ingredients , dumping it in a bag , super duper easy . That's fine , but I don't like being in there stirring a stew for two hours and then the whole process .
I can just pump out so many more meals , dry ingredients , putting them in a bag , then getting out , chopping fresh vegetables , stirring it up for two hours , then you have to dry it for 24 hours , so to me that just doesn't sound fun . I want to .
I want to one of those harvest dryers harvest right freeze dryers so bad because my wife she hasn't made it in a while which I need to mention this to her Because she makes this butter chicken meal .
It's like the most amazing thing ever and I , every time she makes it , I'm like I want to freeze dry this and eat it in the mountains , like she makes a good chili . She makes good .
I mean , I was even thinking about doing it , just going to the store and getting you know like canned chili or canned soup and just freeze drying that and then toss it in the backpack . I'd be like I paid like $2 for this Right .
Like if you had a freeze dryer and you just did like canned food , you could save yourself a lot of money once you you know A lot of money .
Well and I've looked at the again , being the nerdy dietician , the number cruncher , the energy a lot of people are like , oh , you're paying for electricity .
I was going to ask you about that .
Yeah , I've monitored all that too and it usually costs me about $2 per batch and electricity , and that's in California and I'm sure our rates are higher . How big is your freeze dryer ? I have the medium size harvest right , let's see . Is it either five or six trays ? Five trays , four trays , something like that . It's not huge .
And actually , what's misleading when you're reading the descriptions on those , that gives the how many pounds it can hold . Well , five pounds of stew is very different from five pounds of apples , because apples take up more space .
I have to think about the surface area that the food's going to take up , because when you slice up apples , by the time they take up the surface area of the tray , they don't wait much . I can only put two apples per tray , not five pounds of apples per tray .
So that's where I definitely , if you are thinking about getting one and you are going to do get a bigger one like pay the extra money because you're going to be doing more and more batches and it does take 24 hours . So that's kind of the downside is you do have to be ready to be in there . Because I made the mistake ?
Because , lesson learned bananas will absorb moisture from the air really quickly and stick to the trays and not come off . So I made the mistake of leaving out the trays , going to the grocery , coming back , and then I had to chisel them off of the tray by the time . I got home .
So how's the freeze drying work you just so you put it on these little trays , toss it in there , push the button push the button 24 hours later you're pulling it out .
Is there like a ?
to get it . This is ready to go , you just bag it up , or something .
Just bag it up . I actually sort of store everything in mason jars because I'm trying to get away from using so much plastic . Yeah , the businessman built I had some mason jars . He built shelving units for my mason jars and then on Amazon there's actually a section a vacuum seal all of them , so they last longer .
So there's actually a little suction cup that you can get for a vacuum sealer and just sit on the mason jars and that's it . It's easy and you can even use freeze , frozen vegetables , frozen fruit . You don't have to chop them up . That's I'm lazy . I mean I do all things that I'm lazy .
So you just take frozen broccoli , throw it on there , and then it actually dries faster because it's already frozen , so it actually goes a little bit quicker .
This is going to be a really dumb question . Is fruit like an apple on the trail ? Does it make sense ?
Like I love Apple .
Yeah , like I love apples , I really love them . I've never brought one into the backpacking , though . Is it a good food to have on the trail ? Is it not a good food to have on the trail ?
Again , I don't believe in what a good food or bad food . If it's something that makes you happy and you really enjoy it , it's optimal . Well , the thing is , if you're an ultra light backpacker , it's heavy , so that's the kind of thing . And then please , don't leave the core behind .
So you have to think about making sure you carry out the core kind of thing too . So if it's something that you enjoy , there's no reason why you couldn't take it . Similar kind of thing like avocados . People love taking avocados . You just have to make sure you pack out the pit and the skin .
So yeah , I feel like there's a lot of avocado eaters out there that bring them on the trail , and every time I see one I'm like odd choice .
It's kind of one of those little fresh treats that it's actually shelf stable so it's not going to get mashed up too terribly bad . You're probably not going to take a fresh tomato out because it's going to get squashed , but something like an apple or an orange , something like that .
That if it makes you happy and you're okay with carrying the extra weight , then yeah , go for it .
I like your approach , what makes you happy , and try not to change your diet too drastically from home recipes or actually home recipes .
Like my spaghetti is my mom's spaghetti recipe . I call it Yo Simity yams . Essentially is our Thanksgiving sweet potato pasta roll , so it's all just things that we normally eat at home . I've just figured out how to manipulate in a way that it's backfacking friendly .
And how ? Okay , so take the yams one . These are dried yams .
So that one I do make fresh and dehydrate .
So that one is super super simple .
So it's just canned sweet potatoes . I put pineapple in it , brown sugar , some pecans , and then , because fat doesn't dehydrate , I don't add fat , so those things go in , and then when it comes out I powder it or mash it up as best as possible so it rehydrates better , and then I add either .
I used to use coconut oil , but now it's really hard to find so I'm using MCT powder . Because you don't have coconut oil . You had to have hot water to get it to dissolve , or at least some sort of heat to get it to dissolve , and I've switched to MCT powder because it's the same thing as dried from coconuts , but it doesn't need the heat to dissolve .
So it works really well and then it's just regular food . It's what I normally eat at home .
Wow , okay , your business , let's let's wrap up by like recapping all the things that you're offering people from top to bottom . What's like your main jam ?
It has been the recipe platform for the last six years . So that's where , like I was saying that , I produce recipes . I'm constantly trail testing that kind of thing as I upload those to our membership site . It is an membership platform , so we have three tiers . There's just the recipe platform . That's all you get is our recipes
¶ Trail Food Planning and Resupply Options
. And then if you're really wanting to dive in and meal plan a little bit better , if you're tired of using spreadsheets or spreadsheets are overwhelming our meal planner is all automated .
So if you want to drop in the foods that you want to eat , it tells you all the nutrition numbers , it tells you how much it weighs , the carbs , the protein , everything you'd ever need to know . If you're watching your sodium , it tells you how much sodium is in there . So that's the next level is our meal planner platform .
And then the next level is if you really want to deep dive and take my classes at six different classes that I teach you essentially what we've talked about today , but in like three times as much information as I might be overwhelming , but there's master classes . And then in that level we have once a month , like live Q and a .
Essentially what we're doing right now is people ask questions and then I respond once a month for about an hour . So it's kind of like having your little personal dietitian once a month . So that's what we've been doing .
Then the nutrition coaching is one on one , and then what I just launched , which we're really focusing on , is our shop and the resupply boxes is what we're doing now . So in the race we had 18 hikers signed up for my resupply , so I'm going to be feeding this year . Wow , do you have a cap ?
Um , I will work its way down to 10 , because it's inevitable that somebody gets hurt , there's a family situation or something . So 10 is my comfortable level . I start out with a lot more , just expecting it to kind of drop .
So once I people start dropping , then I can add in like a JMT hiker that's starting later in the season or a Colorado Trail hiker that's starting in July is kind of what I'm managing .
So you take care of them for the entire trail ? Mm , hmm , oh fascinating , so I'm including gear .
I do gear . I'm essentially like a trail mom . So you place your order , tell me what you want to eat , and then I magically put it all together and then it shows up at the post office .
I love it .
That's so cool and I have a lot of international hikers that don't have support people here in the country . So they mail me or order American gear , ship it to me and I hold on to it until they need to switch it in and out , kind of thing . So , going to the Sierra , I send them , in their winter , they send back the desert gear .
And then some funny things that happened last year . I got a we communicate by Garmin or some kind of text messaging is . I got a message . I just ripped my pants . Erin , can you please get me a pair of pants ASAP ? So I do that kind of stuff too .
As all because Amazon can't ship to post offices . Yeah , you're like an angel trail foodie Right .
One of my hikers called me the trail costier . I make all the magic and I love it . It's just I kind of miss my hikers after six months . They're like we just get to know each other so well .
Oh , that's so cool .
And then I check in on them . I'm like you're looking a little thin , Can I give you some more food ?
So I actually have .
My hikers have all maintained their weight because we've been able to kind of keep them healthy and eating well along the way .
That's so cool , is there any ? So the reset button , so you're doing a resupply boxes as well . If someone needed to like someone's going on like what if it's not through hiking ? What if it's just hey , I have a five day backpacking trip coming up Can and I'm like I don't want to make this . I don't know , can you take care of my food ?
Yes . So another thing we've started is our one day meal kits . So it's already pre planned out for you . I've already pre done the calories , the carbs , that . I've already done all that for you , as you just go in and pick out how many kits you want and then the box that goes , and then you're done . No planning needed on your part .
So they are set at right now . I'm setting them about 3000 calories because it's kind of like the base level that any hiker would need . And then we have these calorie booster bundles . So if you need 4000 calories , you add on extra booster bundles that I've already kind of pre done out and then again it's all done for you .
It just shows up in a box and off you go .
That's so cool . I'm going to try that this year . My wife , I was like dude , you should check out what the foodie's doing , because we both followed you for a while Cause it's so fun . Like you , you one of my favorite things is going into hiker season and just finding some hikers to follow . It's just so fun .
And then so you were one of the people that my wife and I had followed and I was like . So we've always like kind of we've known what you've been up to and like what's foodie up to this ?
year . Yeah , she's got so much going on and she was on your website .
She's like you need to do this . So I'm going to . I want to try this next year because there's some trips I want to do and I , like I said , I just want to branch out and be like sometimes you just need someone to show you the way to like okay , there's , here's how I need to start thinking about it . And it's hard when I've kind of moved into a .
It's easy for you because you're seeing it all the time . Right , it's like repetition is very , like , very important . But like when you move into like just your average backpacking stuff and you're not going every weekend , it's hard to remember . It's hard to remember what worked and what didn't work .
And even if you've been , I encourage my people to do is keep a hiking food journal .
Ooh , that's a good one .
Is write it down what you had before you left and then , when you come back , write down what worked and what didn't work , and then you don't have to make the mistakes the next time .
Yeah , and you know what ?
And it only takes a couple of times you know do that a couple of times , and then you figure it out .
I have one of the things I've . I've always I've always been jealous of people that can eat peanut butter wraps . I can't do it .
I cannot , I can't do it .
And I've screwed myself so many times . I'm like you know , I'm going to go peanut butter this time . Bad idea Just a . I don't eat it . I can't do it for something . Something happens in my body where I like all eat peanut butter toast all the time . I'm like man , I just want some peanut butter and toast , like I love it .
I cannot eat peanut butter in the back country , I don't know why , just can't do it yeah .
But just like I was saying nuts , I can't touch them . I don't know why it is , but it's just one of those things and I've learned that just from experience . So , again taking notes , write that down . You get back like this meal , just I couldn't touch it . So you know not to do it again the next time .
What am I ? I started making my own little trail mix . It's not very light , obviously , trail trail mix is not very light , but depends on how you make it .
Oh really .
I put corn , I start putting like corn nuts and M&Ms and I'll do like a , I think , almonds . So corn nuts , almonds and M&Ms , I'll toss them in just a Ziploc baggy and that's , and it's like part of my . I usually take like a handful of them when I sit down , like I don't know how many calories it ends up being , but I like to eat them .
I like corn nuts and like almonds and almonds I can eat , and then the chocolate's just there for like flavor . Yeah .
Yeah , I think trail mixes are good too , because you can get that whole mixture of salty sweet , you know , crunchy . I actually have a recipe called don't knock it till you try it , because it's so bizarre but it is so amazing . So it's wheat thens , which , again , is not something I normally eat , but I love them on trail .
So pretzels , little little pretzel twists , chocolate covered raisins and pecans Totally random ingredients but , yeah , totally weird , random , but it's amazing when you you actually have to eat a little bit of everything all in one bite and just whatever that flavor combination is . It's so good .
Is there a high calorie chip that you send out with people ?
Like potato chips .
Yeah , like a potato chip .
I think they're pretty much pretty darn close to all the same 150 , 160 calories per ounce on average . But , like I said , I really like the plantain chips because , they just do what I need them to do . That's kind of that combination food thing that I think about .
Yeah , that's a good takeaway . Like , try to find a combination food , very cool . Last question why do you do this ? Why do you ? You're just like so happy about it , like what what ? I love it .
It's such a weird passion , why ?
Have you ever like ? Why ? What makes you so excited to do this ? It's my two passions .
I love food . I've always been a dietitian , I'll never be anything else , and I love being outdoors . So I get to combine the two things I love the most and earn a living doing it and helping other people . I've always that's kind of being a dietitian . That's one thing that's in our DNA is we like to help people .
We're in the field because we like to help and I just learned that through all my mistakes that I learned . Then I just teach everybody else before they get to that position and make the same mistakes . So I do , I love it .
Very cool .
There's no way I'm going . If I feel like I'm struggling , then the motivation is you have to go back to your old job and like no , I got to figure this out . I'm not going back to my old job , so I just troubleshoot , evolve and then just make it work .
That's awesome . Well , I would encourage anyone to check out that a minimum of the recipes that you put out and get a hold of those things , because and this calculator , how cool is that .
The calculator for sure . Yeah , like that will solve your first problem , yeah .
But like the recipes that you'll share on Instagram and stuff like that , I'm like this is incredible , Like so helpful for a lot of people and I feel like food is such a key to success out there . It's so important from just like a food makes people feel good and it can help you and it helps you perform and if you get it wrong , it sucks , it sucks .
Well , people will spend hundreds and hundreds of dollars on gear and then not pay attention to their food .
Yeah .
So even if you're comfortable on your nice puffy jacket , you're physically miserable because you're not fueling what's inside that puffy jacket .
I love it . Do we miss anything ? Did we cover everything ? Any final , any final .
I got a lot going on at foodie . Any final thoughts from the foodie ? I feel like you're the foremost expert on like it's like . I don't know , I don't know , I don't know .
I don't know , I don't know , I don't know , I don't know . I get like a gorilla food food-making out there Like every time you come up with like a recipe , I'm like man , this is like some gorilla warfare stuff . Like because nothing again . Like you don't , nothing's to your point .
Like you haven't eaten a commercial off the shelf meal and that's seriously , that's how I do it Is .
I get on Pinterest or I'll get on all recipes or something like that , and I just look at like what sounds really good for dinner and then I just manipulated into a backpack , you know so I would like to turn Thanksgiving into backpacking meals .
I would like to figure out a way to do that , so gravy . I love Thanksgiving meals .
Cranberry you can do dried cranberries , stove top , dried powder gravy , you know if you get a freeze-dried , freeze-dried your turkey . So it's really , it's not that hard , it's just having that know-how which is what I'm trying to teach people , yeah .
Well , where should they go if they wanna learn more ?
Backcountrybootycom , and everything is there . So our recipes , our blog , they're . Do just go there and then that'll direct you to where you need to go .
Awesome .
And on Instagram and Facebook .
Cool , I'll make sure to put all of that in the show now so people can click away . And man , thank you so much for doing this . I really appreciate you .
You're welcome . Thanks for having me . Yeah , thanks for sharing . Let me share my story and my passion and all the things that we do .
Well , you're welcome on anytime . This is super great and I think it's gonna benefit a lot of people . So thank you so much . You're welcome . All right , that is it for episode 165 with the Backcountry Booty . Thanks so much for tuning in To follow up on anything we mentioned in this episode .
I have included links to all of it in the show notes , so be sure to check those out when you have a chance , and if you have not yet introduced yourself to me , please do . I love hearing from you guys . I always respond . So if you haven't said hi , make sure you do so . You can reach me at emory at bylandco , and I promise you'll get a response .
That's it for me . If you're headed out on an adventure anytime soon , be safe , make great decisions and we'll see you next time . 第二 Junior you , you , you , you , you .