¶ Guilty Pleasure Mics
The Rode X kind of looks cool.
Yeah, I think they kind of they kind of look cool, but they kind of look like it's targeted towards the type of person that would have bought an alienware computer.
Yes. 100%.
Right?
Yes. Exactly what I was thinking.
Yeah. Here we go.
It's just, I mean, it's kind of cool, but it's also like a little bit too much. Like I would never buy it.
RGB lights in the keyboard. There's like a water cooling thing going on with inside of the computer. And you're like, do you need the LED lights in the water cooling system?
See, here's the thing is on TikTok and like my Instagram reels and stuff, I totally get those videos of people showing off setups like that. Like they're redoing their keyboards and it has the lights and they've got like the LED lights behind. And I will watch those for like an hour. I love looking at that kind of stuff. And I see some of those microphones that have, I think it's called like the Hyper X or something like that. I can't remember what it's called.
Um, and they're those condenser microphones, but they have the LED lights that like completely change color. It just ebbs and flows, all these different colors. And a part of me really wants it.
So what we discovered here is that Rode actually knows what they're doing because they're like, oh yeah, we're going for the gamer alien wear crown. And Kevin and I are like, big mistake. And you're like, oh yes, send me this. Road made me the mic and I get LED attachments.
But you know what? The thing that would hold me back from actually getting something like that is that I hate red. Oh yeah. And for whatever reason, like gaming companies and stuff, they use red so much, and it is my least favorite color for like electronics and devices. I despise it. So I will not be getting it.
Yeah. You know who did something similar was with a similar color palette? Was sure. They have the Super 55, which it's got a long history. And now it's like a very retro mic. And they have it had a black version and it had a red foam windscreen inside of it. And I thought it just wrecked the whole thing. And I was like, why wouldn't they have just gone black?
Uh I think they came out with a special edition that had like blue inside and it looked a little bit better, but I still think the whole thing should have been black. But the red version actually caught on with some, well, a very famous musician, uh Metallica, James Hutfield. He still uses it to this day on stage. But yeah, if you're either a gamer or one of the most popular rock musicians in the world, maybe you can pull off black and red. I feel like it's a little bit too much for me.
I don't think I could pull it off.
Your headphones are black and red, though.
Yeah, you're wearing them right now. These are not great headphones. These headphones are $20 off Amazon. And they're comfortable.
The one Odios? Is that what those are?
The one Odios, yeah. I do love these things, but not because of their colors now. That's funny. I had never even connected them.
Wait. Now that we're on Kevin Gear Review. Yeah. What is this mic? Can you see it? Yes. I'm not happy about it. Oh my gosh.
It's so good.
It looks like a pipe. It looks like you attached a pipe to the end of the boom arm.
It's an earthworks. Jordan, this is what I sent on the show like two months ago saying we gotta get one of these. And Kevin said, No, you're gonna hate it. It is, isn't it?
Yeah, I did. I'm so sorry. Because you would love it. It is amazing. I was very wrong.
You said you'd used it and I would hate it. No, no, no.
It's got it's a I did I didn't say I used it. I hadn't used it, but I said it was a condenser mic and you'll hand it. Do you want to check the tapes?
I hope we've got this on the recording.
I did check it out at the uh BH booth at Podcast Movement, the last conference we were at. And the person there who's a microphone expert from BH told me that unless you had a treated room, you're not gonna like the sound of it. Well, my room is treated, so I do like the sound of it. I don't know if you're gonna like it in your room, but I'm happy to give it to you and you can try it out.
I've got treatment. I can put in treatment, I can add more treatment.
Yeah, you're right. It looks amazing, it sounds really good. It is a condenser mic, so you have to be like if somebody started mowing my lawn right now, that would be a problem.
Which of them did you end up getting, Kevin? So it's Earthworks, Ethos. Ethos. It looks so good. There's a so there's a silver and a black version.
Yeah, and so the reason I decided to get it was this this mic's been out for a very long time and it's been $800. And I've never wanted to try it out for $800. I wasn't that curious. Well, they just reduced the price to $400. They cut it in half. So now it's $400 mic, same price as SM7B or something. Whoa. The black one is still $800. So I can't get the black one. So I grabbed the silver one and uh yeah. But it's only on B and H, it looks like. Or Sweetwater. I got it from Sweetwater.
But for $400, you should absolutely consider this against the SM7B if you're looking to spend $400 on a microphone. It's a good contender. You should put them up next to each other. And I think the difference would be if you have a treated room, get the Earthworks Ethos. And if you don't, the SM7B would be a better option.
Our friend Steven Robles, he's now at Riverside.fm, who does a bunch of podcasts and hosts with Buzzsprowl, he uses one and he swears by. He thinks it's the like greatest mic he's ever used. He's a huge fan. He's always talking about it and showing it off in his setup. And for like months, I've sat there and looked at it and gone, man, that thing looks good. That thing's pretty sweet. And then Kevin's like, I've heard it. It's not any good. You aren't gonna like it.
And then lo and behold, you're just waiting for it to go on sale, so you would be the first one to get it.
Yeah, I really didn't mean it to work out that way, but that is kind of the way it played out. So I apologize. I'm happy to put it in your hands and let you use it for a little while. And if you like it, you grab one. It is awesome. I do like it. It's my favorite looking mic that I've ever seen, and it feels amazing. It has like tool marks on it. You can tell that it was there were some hands involved in the manufacturing of it. It's very mid-century modern, the design of it, which I appreciate.
Johnny Ives made a microphone. Yeah, kind of. Right? I mean, that's what it looks like. It kind of does, yeah.
I think it's really ugly. I I think it might just be too masculine. Like it looks like actual plumbing fixtures. And so you guys are like, yeah, this is great. You can see the tool mark.
Here's the one who was just like 30 seconds ago talking about I really like the microphones with the LED lights because they're pretty that all the gamer boys use.
It's aesthetically pleasing. That I don't get it.
You want your mic to kind of like fade into the background so that you can really focus on the podcast, have something that looks pretty. But if I have like I don't want to get like a seizure during like the podcast, it's not a strobe light, jeez.
My opinion is it's the first mic that is clearly better looking than the SM7B. I love the SM7B and how simple and clean it is. Yes. And I think this takes it to a whole nother level. Jordan is shocked.
Oh, I don't agree. Are we having another debate?
No, you don't have to agree because these are aesthetics. So there's you can have your opinion, I can have mine, and neither one of us have to be right or wrong. That's true. But I love the way it looks.
Oh, wait, okay, so the great splatter debate of like six months ago where we argued about the Vocaster. You got one, didn't you? I did. I bought one of those two. This is just tech review with Kevin Finn now.
Okay, wait, wait, wait. That is also black and red.
So Kevin, I think you know, you might be right. I might be drawn to black and red subconsciously.
He just didn't know it.
But I am. I'm buying a lot of black and red stuff. Yeah, it's the Georgia Bulldogs. It's like Georgia colors, yeah. That's not me. Um, so I did, I bought the Vocaster. What I'm trying to do is I need another recording setup. So this is why I got some additional gear. I got another microphone set up in my home studio.
I'm gonna take the one that I was using here, which is the re20, and I'm gonna use that in the office because I find myself in the office and I need to hop on a call or do a recording, and I can't. I gotta run home quick. So going back and forth is being a pain. So I'm just gonna set up another recording setup in the office. And so since I want to use that re20, that re20 is a pretty gain hungry mic, and I don't like using cloud lifters or FET heads.
So, what is the best simple preamp that you can put on your desk? It's the new focus rate Vocaster one.
Yeah.
I don't love the aesthetic of that as much. I'm not drawn to how it looks, but I am drawn to its performance. It performs really well.
Jordan, I I hate to do this to you, but I feel like we've got to go back and get some old clips of Kevin just railing on the Vocaster of her having like a minor speckled palette.
And then you look at the side and they it's like a rubberized coating around the side that they splatter painted.
It's not splatter painted, it's recycled materials. So it's got like a mica kind of effect to it. I don't know.
It is, I'm telling you, I promise you, Jordan, when you see this in person, it'll be a mistake.
I like the textured side. You do too.
It just no, it doesn't go together. It clashes, it's like the aesthetic is wrong.
No, I feel like it has like an organic kind of thing to it.
I can tell you, Kev, so I've I've held one of these. I saw I saw one at the pod show, but it's a miss on this the the way the treatment on the side is a miss.
I will be very excited to follow up on this uh in the future. Um, does Kevin is he is triggered by the for Micah countertop look of the recycled materials as much as he appears to be right now?
I like it.
I don't know, maybe it's it's it's it's it it's it's like a poor representation of a starry night.
He was so triggered by these speckles, and now he's got it. And you were so against this mic, and now you have it.
I'm gonna paint it. I'm gonna paint the sides. I like it from the top down.
You're against red and black and you're wearing the headphones. This is just complete hypocrisy in your podcast setup.
You wait till next show. I'm gonna get new headphones and I'm gonna paint my vocabulary. I'm gonna fix all these problems, all these inconsistencies in my life that you guys are pointing
¶ Apple Podcasts Updates
out.
Every month, Apple posts a review of all the updates that they've added to Apple Podcasts. So one of the ones I really liked is uh helping followers discover subscriptions. Apple added a feature as like an extra way to promote subscriptions. So if a listener is following a show and they've listened to three episodes that have subscriber-only content like tied to it or something like that, I wasn't really exactly sure how it works.
What happens is there's a hint that a subscription is available for that podcast that they're following and listening to on a consistent basis.
I love it. I love that it's a hint. It's not an ad to buy something, it's a hint. This is like watching a football game and they go to a hint for Bud Bunzer. There's a hint for Budbunzer. He might be thirsty.
Yeah, they just kind of like nudge nudge the listener a little bit. And I don't know in what way they nudge nudge. Um, maybe it's a pop-up, maybe it's just like a little like whisper of something on the screen.
What do they call this? The like the Apple distortion universe or whatever? The Steve Jobs distortion field. Distortion field, yeah, where they just convince us to continue to give them more and more money. They're so good at it. They're like we all need to just take lessons from these people.
Okay, so it's called a call to action, and that's a very lame marketing phrase. I think hint, if I wrote hint, I would have been very proud of thinking of that. So I'm not against this. Yes, that's it's it's a genius.
I love it. It's a good feature, right? Yeah, but we're gonna buy a 60-second Super Bowl hint next year or something. You mean a commercial? No, it's a hint.
I feel terrible for the person who wrote this, and now Kevin's like, whoa, whoa, let's pause the whole talk about the thing. We're talking about the one word.
Oh, but it's it's I don't know, it's hilarious.
I mean, it does kind of have that connotation of like a quick tip. Hey, pst, just so you know. Like it's it's like a helpful sort of thing. So I think that's kind of like a positive spin on a pop-up or something. I don't really know.
This is super helpful. I have too much money sitting in my bank account right now, so I need a few hints on where I could spend it. Thanks, Apple. I will buy that premium podcast.
They're using such like gentle language. They also say a subtle banner is also displayed on the now playing screen between the artwork and episode title.
Yeah. I'm just joking about it. But the the reality is this is a really great feature for podcasters because Apple is doing a lot of work to help you sell premium content. And they're seeing a lot of success with Apple Podcast subscriptions and they're continuing to invest in it. So this is a huge win for podcasters. If you run a premium podcast and you're not taking advantage of Apple Podcast subscriptions, you probably should.
And the reason why I think people push back on it is because the fees are high. It's uh it is a 30% cut, but this is how they justify those fees. They are trying to sell your podcast for you, they're helping you get more subscribers. And so only getting 70% of a bigger pie it oftentimes works out than having 80% or 90% of a smaller pie. And so Apple's doing the work here to justify their cut. And I think it's it's a win on both sides.
Apple's hopefully will sell more subscriptions so they make more money, and podcasters win because their subscriptions are being sold more. So more stuff like this. This is is really good. So I am joking about the hinting and the language, but it's like they are marketing geniuses. They know how to do this stuff really well, and they're doing it for the benefit of podcasters to help you sell more shows and for listeners to find shows that they might be interested in.
So it is a really good thing. I am joking about it because it is funny, but it's also a funny, really good thing.
I totally agree. It's so much easier. Like, I actually don't have to do anything and I'll just get subscribers because Apple's the one putting it in front of the audience and promoting it in every way they possibly can.
They're putting it just right under people's noses and giving them like a whiff of like what I Neither of you are gonna be our copywriters in the future of just something you know that you're both getting like cut off.
It's like a pleasant whiff. It's like when you smell like apple pie coming out of the oven. And it's so nice because like with Patreon or Supercast, I have to market the heck out of that. I'm constantly posting about it. I'm constantly talking about it. But Apple, I can just like sit back and just gain subscribers without doing anything extra. So yeah, I I totally agree that the 30%, it's quite a bit, but it's totally worth it.
Yeah, and it sounds like the way that they're triggering this is not like creepy algorithm, you like this, so you can probably like this, and your friends like this, and you all that stuff. It's like what you're engaging with.
So if you're listening to the free episodes that are available in this feed and they notice that you have a premium feed, they are going to start dropping hints that this might also be something that you like or that maybe you're missing out on because you're unaware of it in a subtle way.
Yeah, and it says you engage with three episodes. So they're timing this pretty well. Engagement is something that Apple measures. That's the if you listen to 20 minutes or 40% of the episode, then you count as engaged. So this is somebody who's probably listened to three full episodes and then they are presented with a call to action to upgrade to the paid content. I think what's unsavory sometimes is hey, sign up for this newsletter and pay for it. Sign up for this thing and pay for it.
And I'm like, what I don't have any trust yet. Why would I sign up and start paying or give you access to my email inbox or whatever it may be? Apple's able to see, okay, looks like someone actually is into this. Now's the right time to tell them if you want even more, there's a way to pay money and get even more. I did some real life customer research on this recently. My wife, I saw we started getting a recurring charge for an Apple Podcast subscription.
And I was like, oh, you're listening to this podcast? And she was like, Yeah, I just I was listening to one with our daughter, and then I saw that you had to pay, so I just clicked and paid. I was like, Oh, you don't have to pay for all of them, but that's interesting to like see it. Like they listened to a few, they got the hint and they took it and they went ahead and they upgraded. So I think it's like a good timing for people who are trying to get their subscription in front of more people.
You know what? That actually makes a lot of sense to me because I did get a review once. Um, it was after I started the Apple subscriptions. I got a review and it was a lady um shaming me for paywalling all of my content. And I was so confused. I didn't understand why she thought that. But that makes complete sense that maybe someone would see that and be like, oh, I have to pay to listen to this podcast. They don't realize that it's like the bonus episodes.
But it works even better. Like three engaged episodes, you clearly know there's stuff here for free. And you've now probably started hitting like, I wouldn't mind those bonus episodes right now. So there's no, there shouldn't be too much confusion that it's paywalled totally. And now you're probably looking around, going, if there's more of this stuff, I'm really into it. It's kind of a perfect opportunity to present it.
I'm a little curious on on the language that they use because they say if the person is following the show and engages with at least three episodes that have subscriber versions. So I wonder if that kind of like hint is specific to episodes that have ad-free versions or something like that.
Oh, interesting. I read that to be the show has subscriber versions. But if the subscriber versions apply to the episodes, then yeah, it would have to be like ad-free or early release, maybe. Like it could have been, hey, these could have come out a week earlier.
Yeah, or extended cuts is the other type of premium episode that they allow you to do. Oh, cool. I think that this is becoming more normal. You know, Alvin, you said your wife bought one. Uh my wife has bought one. And I think, you know, we think about this through the lens of podcasters, people who are very much into podcasts, and podcasts for the longest time have been totally free. And the idea of paying for some premium versions is relatively new.
You know, the last couple years, more and more people are trying to do this. But it's coming on the heels of the entire world getting very used to paying for premium content. Like Netflix is the first big one, right? And then there's Disney Plus and there's Hulu. Soon to be Twitter. Soon to be Twitter. There's been a lot of these things, it's becoming very normal. And so, like, when I noticed that my wife was starting to pay for podcasts, I was very interested in how she made that jump.
And for her, I don't think it was a big thing. She was like, What's the big deal? You pay for Paramount Plus and HBO, and so I listen to this podcast and I want to buy the premium version of it. Like, why are you making a big deal about it? I'm like, Well, I'm excited that you're spending money in the podcasting industry, but for her, it was not a big leap. And for me, it was like, oh, this is something very new. So I think it's interesting.
And I think if you're a podcaster that's considering, like, you have the bandwidth to create some premium episodes or to do something a little bit above and beyond. Again, we don't recommend you take your best content and hide it behind a paywall, but additional stuff, if you have the capacity to do that, might be worth considering because I do think the world is getting to a place where more and more people are accepting this as normal.
It's not a weird thing to buy entertainment or support a creator. And like I said, in the podcasting world, it might feel a little bit new, but maybe the world is a little bit uh further along than at least I have opened my mind to. And I think subscriptions could work for more people. I might be coming around to that opinion. Okay, so the other thing that Apple talked about, this happens every year, but they have announced their holiday delivery deadlines.
And so the team over there at Apple, they take breaks like most of us do around the holidays. So for Thanksgiving and Christmas New Year's, those holiday seasons is when a lot of the team takes off. And so if you're going to submit a show, um be aware that between November 19th and November 27th, that there may be some delays. And December 23rd to January 2nd, there may be some delays as well.
So that applies if you're submitting a new show, if you're setting up a subscription, if you're emailing their support team, any interactions with the Apple systems, there would be a delay because they will be short staffed during
¶ Buzzsprout Updates & New Video!
those dates.
Buzzprout removed email addresses from RSS feeds. I mean, this is one of the more exciting things for me because I hate spam. I think everyone hates spam. So this is extremely exciting.
The reason that email addresses are in RSS feeds in the first place is because iTunes namespace specification, which is the old spec that podcasters use to create an RSS feed, said that we had to put it in there. And so that has been what we've done for a very long time. That has just changed. It's very recent. And Apple actually said, starting in early 2023, we're no longer going to recommend that you have email addresses and feeds. So we reached out to Apple and said, This is great.
We can't wait to make this change. Wondering, do we have to wait till 2023 or can we do it now? And they wrote back and they said, No, our system is not using email addresses now. We don't actually recommend that you use them now, but we're giving people time to make the change. If you guys are ready to make the change now, go for it. Perfectly safe to do so. So we started doing research with other directories and figuring out uh would this cause any problems anywhere else?
And we found out that it really doesn't cause any problems anywhere else. James over at Pod News, he took email addresses out of his feeds a while ago. He's not seeing any issues. We started pulling email addresses out of a few test feeds on our side, didn't see any issues. Where you run into a bump once in a while is you want to get listed in a new service or a new directory, and they're using that email address to verify that you own the feed. So we had to come up with a solution for that.
And our solution was we're gonna give people the ability to add an email address to their feed for 24 hours. That way you can add it in, you wait five minutes, your feed refreshes, you go ahead and verify it, you get in the directory, and then 24 hours later, we pull it out automatically. So it's not just sitting out there for spammers to pick it up.
The reason it's important is because this wasn't being used by many directories anymore. It was absolutely being used by every spammer and bot in all of podcasting. And it just became like a lot of new companies. The way they launched was they went and they bought one of these lists. It was like, hey, can I get the email address for everyone who's ever had a podcast ever? And they'd be like, sure, here you go. I just sold you the list. And then they would just mass email everybody.
I mean, it really got on our radar when a competitor started emailing everybody on Buzzsprout saying, Why don't you move over? Here's why, you know, we're better than Buzzsprout. And then people started saying, Hey, did you sell my email address to your competitor? So that would never have made sense for us. But all of a sudden, people would start going, like, how is my email even getting out there into the world?
And it wasn't just like one competitor, but it was also like 12 listening apps and all these random services, and some are just complete scams. So something really had to change. The marketers ruined it, and you know, something had to give. And so that's kind of where I'm sure Apple started thinking about it and why we started thinking about it. Because something's got to change when everyone's just getting spammed just because they happen to have a podcast.
Yeah. I've had a sharp decline in spam emails. Like I'm still getting a couple, and they probably obtained my email address prior to the removal of it, but I've actually seen a pretty decent decline, which is great because I was deleting probably two or three spam emails a day for a while there.
That's great. I think as soon as James Cridlin started kind of naming and shaming the companies did it the most, he was like putting podcasts out in the world with specific email addresses so that he would know how it was being picked up. And then he was just publishing it all. And so when he'd say, Here's the biggest spammer from the last week, and he would name them.
And it's funny, if you look at his charts, the amount of spam that at least we go into his dropped off a cliff once he started writing those articles. So I think there's a lot that just the industry as a whole being very vocal about it was helpful. And I hope now that, you know, just them not existing in feeds, because they don't need to, will do the rest.
And everyone can just go back to like getting email forwards from their uncle and like political emails and all the other wonderful things you've got in there. You can focus on that stuff and not focus on scammy podcast emails. I'd like to be a guest on your podcast.
Speaking of being a guest, if you have ever had a podcast guest coming on to your show, maybe they aren't a podcaster, they don't have background in it, they're nervous about it. We have created a new video that you can send to your future podcast guests. And Albin, you star in this video and it is spectacular.
That's a common misconception. It's not Alvin. Looks a lot like him. It's actually his dad.
You know, that's my dad.
That's right. Buzzsprout's founded in nepotism. I forgot about that. Yeah.
It's Albert. Yeah. So most people don't know this, but my dad worked at Buzzsprout back in the early 90s, and um, that's how I got the job. So it worked out well for me. We pulled up the old video of dad, and none of the content's still hold up today.
Yeah. I mean, it was pretty crazy. I we were going through some old archival footage, cleaning things out, and yeah, had to dust this one off and put it in the VHS player, and lo and behold, great information.
This video actually does date back longer than most videos. Back definitely to, you know, at least a year ago. I feel like I talked to the about this with Travis back in the day. And when we would go and we'd do interviews, there's always this painful 20-minute period because people are three minutes late, and then they go, Let me set up my mic. And then they realize they don't have their mic, and then their airpods are dead, and like they're using their laptop mic.
And then you're like, Do you have a gaming headset? And like you just go through this whole thing of trying to set everything up and getting the camera right and internet connections. And so Travis started keeping a list, and he was just like, Here's all these things. And then when I'd run into new ones, I was adding to the list. At some point, we were like, we just need to make a video that says, here's your instructions.
Here's six and a half minutes, and this is going to cover like so many of those awkward conversations we had to have. Like, hey, I'm not the fashion police, but like large earrings during the interview is actually likely to cause some noise. I don't want to tell you to stop typing in the middle of the interview because that can be kind of condescending. Just like all those little awkward things that we were running into. Well, now you don't have to say it.
Buzzbrout will say it for you so that it's kind of out of the way. And hopefully the guests are showing up to your interviews way more prepared and they've already kind of troubleshot all these little things so that your interview can be focused on content rather than the anxiety or the social awkwardness of setting up the podcast.
And since you're sending it to guests, guests might not be into podcasting as much as you are. So we tried to come up with this concept that would be funny and entertaining and a little bit like, you know, reminiscent. Remember the 90s a little bit, remember how goofy things were. And so that's where the entertainment factor comes in. But the information is all really helpful and current and modern.
It also comes with a pre-flight checklist for your guests to use to make sure that they are ready to go before they sit down for the interview. And then it also comes with a document that has a little bit further explanation of some of the points that we hit in the video too to help them.
Yeah. So that's everything from, you know, it's just a good reminder to tell everybody in the house, hey, I'm recording an interview. I did that with my daughter before uh we hit record today. It's good for you to make sure your internet connection is high. It's good to pick a location that's unlikely to be disturbed. Lots of little things that podcasters, you've kind of just learned.
All of those little checklists, Jordan put together into this really good document so that your guests shouldn't just go down and go, okay, check, I did that. Okay, check, I've done that. So they go, I'm fully comfortable. I know that I'm going to nail this interview. And now they're focused on like what are the questions, not how do I sound? Oh, did I just make a noise? Is that awkward? Whatever it may be.
Yeah. So if you want to check out that video, I will have a link to it in the show notes. And I highly recommend that you watch it. It is a good time.
It's definitely the best reception we've ever had for a video. It came out yesterday, less than 24 hours ago. And I've already gotten a bunch of texts from people in my life who are not podcasters. So it's already gotten a little bit outside of podcasting, and they're complimenting the video because we had some fun. We were goofing around. We had a good time with it. So I hope everyone enjoys it. And what I really hope is that it's enjoyable enough that podcast guests will watch it.
And maybe we can make podcast interviews just a little bit less stress, a little bit less awkward, and get people off of those computer mics.
¶ Podland Rebrand
So did you guys catch that the last episode of Podland dropped last week? I did.
Yeah, their hundredth episode and final, they said.
The hundredth and final episode of Podland. So if if anybody's listening to this podcast, if you haven't listened to Podland yet, don't go searching for it now because it is no longer called Podland. It is called Pod News Weekly Review. Yeah. Is that right? This is a great show. They host on Bud Sprout. We are the sponsor of that show. This is James Cridland and Sam Sethy. They do a great roundup every week of what's going on in the internet.
And they did this little marketing spin on renaming their show. So we talk about renaming shows all the time because it's something that happens all the time. And so how do you do it in a way that's not only non-disruptive but possibly gives you a little bit of a little boost?
And they came up with this clever idea that the last couple weeks they started dropping hints in their podcast episodes that this was going to be their final episode, and they didn't let everybody in on what they meant by that. Everyone's like, What are you talking about? Is this show really you're gonna stop doing it? Well, it turns out they're just renaming it. So it was kind of fun. But they got a little bit of press about it.
I mean, James actually runs a newsletter, so he gives himself some press about it. But people are talking about it on Twitter and uh, you know, podcaster chatter. Like, what's happening with you know podland? Well, it's a cool, fun way if you're gonna rebrand your show, rename your show. Like, why not use it to get a little marketing buzz going?
It's a good name switch too. They went from Podland, which I think for a lot of people it was not exactly clear what Podland was, but Pod News has a really good name ID in the podcasting industry. Everybody knows the brand. They very likely, if you work in podcasting, you read the newsletter every morning. And now you know this is the show where we round up the biggest stories in podcasting each week.
It's two people who are really good, both have a radio background, so they're really good playing off each other. They do really good interviews. It's a good show. And so I highly recommend it. And I think what they've done is they've just made it a little bit easier for new listeners to get into the show because it's very clear what the show is about and who it's for. So highly recommended. Um, Sam and James are both great guys. Yeah, I hope people really enjoy listening to it.
Yeah, I think that this is a really perfect case for changing the branding of your podcast. If anyone's ever thought about doing that. And they did it in such a great way, too. Like, not just the clickbaity, like, this is our final one, bye. But also announcing to people why they are doing the rebrand, what to expect, and just kind of prefacing it.
And James said that basically what was happening was everyone knows pod news, and what was happening when he'd go meet people is they would confuse Podland with Pod News or vice versa. And then he finally went, like, okay, well, it just makes sense to rename pod news to pod news daily and then have this be the pod news weekly. And that's the main difference between it because they're both podcasts about podcasting news. So yeah, I think that this was a really smart move.
¶ Goodbye, Podcast Pontifications. Hello, The End!
One podcast that did announce that they were ending and then followed through with it was Evo Terra's been doing a newsletter um and a podcast called Podcast Pontifications for years and years. So I don't know when he started it, but Evo is like, I want to say the 40th podcaster in the world, maybe. He started really, really early and has been doing shows like I don't know, since 2004, I believe. So he's just decided to shut down podcast pontifications.
And he said, really, podcasting is changing so much. It's a lot to keep up with that. And what he's redoing, he's starting something new, is a whole fiction podcast newsletter called The End. So there's a whole world of fiction podcasts that Evo's been a champion of for a long, long time. And now he's doing a really cool newsletter. So highly recommend following Evo and paying attention to him. He's a really nice person, good friend of the show, and wish him the best with his new newsletter.
Yeah, I went and looked at his new The End newsletter. It's the end.fyi. And I love that it's a fiction newsletter and it's the end, like the end of a book, but it's also the end as in the end of a season or the end of a series of fiction podcasts. It's very clever. It's really great. If you have a fiction podcast that you just finished a season of, or you have one that you had finished a while ago, you can actually submit your podcast to be featured in his newsletter.
That's great. And you know, I'm not a fan of fiction podcasts, but I I have a feeling that I'm not a fan of fiction podcasts because I've never listened to one. And so I'm really open to the idea of listening to some fiction podcasts. So I might start with the end and hear his reviews and then go check out the podcast.
Jordan, could you think of any good fiction podcasts?
Jordan, your mouth is like dropping to the floor.
I love fiction podcasts, so um, I can definitely put together a list for you.
All right. I would take that list and I will start listening to a
¶ New Amazon Music Features
few.
Amazon Music has made a really, really big move by going ad-free for their Prime members with their podcasts. What's really cool about this is if you have Amazon Prime, you can go into the Amazon Music app and they have like a list of ad-free and exclusive podcasts. And it includes things from like Wondery, Amazon Prime exclusives. I mean, there's things from like the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, CNN, ESPN. All these really big network podcasts are now ad-free if you have Amazon Prime.
There's a really good podcast episode, actually, about this. Um, Amazon's VP of I think it's like Amazon Music, Steve Boom, was on Decoder, which is the Verge podcast with Nei Patel. And they kind of talk through this decision. So Amazon is always kind of trying to lock even more people into using Amazon Prime. And part of that was tons of more free music on Amazon Music. But now what they're claiming, and I think they're right, is now the largest ad-free podcast directory in the world.
So all the Wondery Plus shows are in there. All of the biggest like daily news, so like the daily and upfirst, and there's a lot. All these Amazon exclusives are in there. And then thousands of shows from ACAST too, they have this exclusive. So I personally love this for a few different reasons. But one of is what we kind of talked about earlier. If we want a world where everything isn't driven by advertisements, then there has to be another way to monetize. And Amazon said, you know what?
We're willing to actually pay the creators for this content just to get a little bit more lock-in with Amazon Prime. If you don't like Amazon and other things about them or you don't use Prime, totally cool because all these shows still exist in their ad form. But now there's an additional option for anybody who does like Prime. I use Prime. And so if I was listening to these shows, like this would be pretty cool. Look at Amazon's strategy, juxtapose it with Spotify strategy.
Spotify's has always been acquire a show, make it exclusive. Now we've kind of forced the diehard fans to use Spotify for their podcast player. And Amazon, they went and they bought Wondery, they got Smartless, they've gotten a few other exclusives. And I think all of them are still available on all apps. They're totally cool with being part of the open podcast ecosystem. And then they now are providing a pretty strong incentive, in my opinion, to convince you to come try out Amazon Music.
Now, with a caveat that I don't use Amazon Music, and so I don't want to say anything positive or negative about the app. Kevin, have you ever used it?
Uh I'm using it right now as we're talking about it. But no, I've used it for testing. I've tested a lot of different podcasts in Amazon Music and see how they look, see a show notes display, you know, checking for chapter support, all that kind of stuff that I've done. But I've never used it when I'm just listening to podcasts to see how it goes. So I'm gonna put it on my list this week to play with it a little bit more. I want to see if they have an Apple Watch app.
I will tell you the first time I just launched it when you guys started talking about it, on my phone, and it crashed. So I launched it again, and now it seems to be working. I did see a little banner about them promoting the fact that they have all these new songs that they just added, and it said something about the world's largest selection of ad-free podcasts. So seems like they're playing it up quite a bit, so they're pretty excited about it, so it's probably worth checking out.
You know, I don't really have anything positive or negative to say about Amazon. I would say this on the positive side that it's good to have more diversity. Like we don't want Apple having too much control or power over podcasting. We were concerned about the amount of power and control that Spotify is gaining over podcasting. So it's good to have another big player trying to make moves and diversify some of that power and influence.
But on the downside, then it's just another big player with power and influence. Like, really, what we are champions of here at BuzzSprout is the independent podcasters, independent podcast apps getting more power and influence. Why is Amazon doing this? Is it necessarily for the benefit of independent podcasters or is it for the benefit of shareholders? And it's gonna be for the benefit of shareholders.
Like they had probably one of the best ideas that's been generated and used on the internet in the last 20 years, which is Amazon Prime. It is huge. It's it's helped Amazon go from an online bookstore to the largest retailer in the world over the past 20 years. And so they're continuing to bank and you know, like extract more juice out of the orange of Amazon Prime. This is another way that they're doing it. So, like I said, good and bad, maybe mostly good for now.
And Amazon still is very sm a small player in the podcasting space, so it wouldn't hurt to see these numbers creep up to 5% or 10% of listenership happening through Amazon. That would only be a good thing. Again, the only time it starts to get scary is when you start getting to like Spotify size and then you start making decisions that are truly not in the best interest of independence. So Amazon's not doing any of that yet. So I'm I'm not really concerned.
You know, the thing is, is like I think that Amazon is making a really big push on their podcasting. You know, um, we heard this week that they had laid off uh 50% of their like live music employees, which were the ones that put together that AMP app that I had talked about. It's it's like the like curating a DJ playlist sort of thing. It was it was an absolute dumpster fire. So I mean it makes sense that they would walk away from that a little bit. But I do like that they're pushing this.
And, you know, I was I was very excited about them going ad free. And I think that it's so funny because I had talked about paying for Spotify, yet I listened to um ads still in the Spotify podcast. Like they still insert ads into it. And I didn't really think anything of it until Kevin, you said something about it. And then I kind of had a moment where I was like, wait, yeah, why am I paying for ads in my podcast? Like that doesn't make any sense. And so this is really great.
And I hope that Spotify kind of takes, you know, notes on this because uh my husband was asking me, okay, well, we already have Amazon Prime. Like, should we just pay the $8 a month for the Amazon Music subscription as opposed to paying the like $12 or $15 or whatever it is for Spotify? And I told him, how about you use their app for one day and then you let me know? Because I have personally used their app and it is so unusable. And I I feel really bad for saying that. I really do.
But here's the thing is like their user experience is a little bit clunky and it hasn't made any changes, and it's really hard to find the podcasts that like you follow it. The music's really hard to access. Amazon music was maybe something that they weren't super focused on and they were kind of focusing on some other things. And so I think that this is a really good indication that they are making strides to make their platform better. You know, they added this podcast previews feature.
I think Spotify was playing with this a little bit and then they didn't really launch it. But basically, you click on these podcast previews and then they have these clips that you can just like carousel through and you can find new podcasts that way, which is really cool. The lists are easier to scroll through, it's easier to find things.
So I'm hoping that this means that they are like putting more focus on Amazon Music as a platform because if they do get it to a place where it's really comfortable and intuitive for people to use, I think that they will gain that traction because I mean, right now they only account for less than 1% of all of BuzzSprout's stats.
The thing that I really like is that there's a natural alignment between the creators of these shows and Amazon, where we've talked a lot about there's a lack of alignment for Spotify. And that's why I think at times we can come off exceptionally critical of Spotify to say it lightly. What Amazon's doing is they're signing shows and the creators are getting paid, or they're buying Wondery who are paying the creators. And then they're saying, we're keeping these open so everyone can listen.
And so, how many times have we heard these stories of someone who's gone exclusive and then really stinks when their listenership traps off a cliff and then they get let go because their show doesn't do well and they're kind of left there going, well, of course it didn't do well. I was only available in a single podcasting app. Well, Amazon's saying, let's get you out to the entire world, and then we will sell people to move to Amazon because they're so excited about the content.
They'll move over to support you, the creator, and they're gonna get the ad-free version. Uh, that's really nice.
But they also do have a lot of exclusive shows. I think that means that not they're not doing that strategy with everybody. Oh, interesting. They're doing that straight. Yeah, they're doing that strategy that you talked about with some shows that they purchased, like Smartless, which I think is the right strategy. But I'm also noticing in the app that they do have they have a whole section called exclusive podcasts.
And if you click into it, you'll see that the majority of them are listed as exclusive. A lot of them are just listed as ad-free, but they do have plenty that are exclusive. So I I do I do have the same concerns that you do that if you're exclusive on Spotify, that's one thing. Like you only have the people who listen through Spotify uh have an opportunity to hear your show. That's a much smaller world on Amazon Music, because even fewer people listen on Amazon Music.
Yeah. I'm seeing like 20 or 30 shows that are listed as exclusive here. I don't know how many they have, but that is a possibility that these shows will not get enough traction for Amazon to continue to invest in them. And then what do they do with them? Do they shut them down and retain the IP and tell the creators that they're on their own, or do they let them take the show, or do they just open it up to the world? I mean, there's lots of different things that could happen and we don't know.
So I don't want to speculate.
Those podcasts that are exclusive, they're specifically Amazon exclusive. It's not like Spotify where they bought parcasts, and now parcasts you can only listen to on Spotify. It's not like Gimlet, where Gimlet, you can only listen to it on Spotify. You can still get Wondery, even though Amazon owns Wondery, you can still get Wondery on other apps. Yes, you can.
I love the optimism, and I hate to be the guy who's like shutting it down, but there are one Wonder all the Wondery. Still available everywhere, Kev. Well, let's do a little real-time research because um, baby, this is Kiki Palmer, is listed as a wonder.
That's an Amazon exclusive.
It says Wondery. Wondery exclusive.
But it has at the top of the cover art Amazon exclusive.
Right. What I'm trying to say is that there are some Wondery shows that are now Amazon exclusives, and there are some Wondery shows that are open to the world.
But it's not all of them.
Yeah. So it sounds actually very similar to Gimlet with um Spotify, where they bought Gimlet, and Gimlet not only brought a lot of IP that stayed mostly public and was some benefits to Spotify, but it also became a production house where Spotify started brand new shows.
Oh, you can find Spotify on Apple. Hmm. Their marketing just convinced me that I could only find it on Spotify. I've been bamboozled.
So I think what we're seeing is that Amazon is trying a little bit of everything. When they first bought Smartless, they I can't remember exactly what the pitch was, but it was something about on Amazon Music, you get to listen to episodes a week early.
Yeah. It was timed.
Yeah. Now they're doing Amazon exclusive podcasts. They're also doing ad-free with Prime. They're trying lots of different things, which I think is great because they're going to figure some things out. They're going to figure out what is working best to be able to sustain podcast creation. And then they'll probably start focusing more in that direction. So I don't see anything alarming here. I think they're doing they're doing good work. But we need more listenership.
So if you're a Prime member and then you don't have any problems listening through the Amazon music app, like give it a shot. Try it out. Try some ad-free podcasts. Let us know what you think. And the way you can do that is through Boostigrams. There's a transition.
¶ BUZZBOOSTS!
It is time for BuzzBoost. We need to start off with giving a huge thanks to Gene Bean and Amir Immortals podcast for suggesting Saturn because using that has been um, I don't want to say life changing. I want to be hyperbolic here, but um it's it's up there.
It's definitely podcast changing.
Yes. I am disappointed that we are a podcast for podcasters about podcasting, and we didn't know about this because this is one of the greatest tools we have used in a long time. So yeah, Saturn.dev.
It's um Saturn.fly.dev.
Oh, that's right. Saturn.fly.dev is amazing for sorting your boostigrams. So uh yeah, thank you guys for telling us about that. And now we'll get into our actual buzzboosts.
All right. First BuzzBoost was 1530 from Brian at top tier audio. The idea I loved was using audio to extend the story and experience of TV shows by providing supplemental story-based content rather than behind the scenes commentary or interviews. Great idea. Thanks, Brian. I love that story too.
I mean, if that's the if that's possible for TV shows to do more of that extended story, I think that is a really cool way to have podcasts, you know, kind of help super fans get even more into the content. So thanks for the boost.
Yeah, and I think that was in reference to um us saying we didn't know what he was saying the good idea was for. Do you remember that? This is the whole reason why we are now on Saturn is because of Brian's uh comment. He just said, good idea, and we didn't know what it was to. So yes, I I also agree, Brian, and I hope that we do get some more fiction podcasts.
All right, we got 4,500 sats from Silas TV. Uh hi, my name is Silas. I'm one of the hosts of a show called Uploaded, a tech news commentary show. We've recently moved to Buzz Sprout. I have a suggestion for Buzzsprout ads. Why not allow advertisers and podcasters to choose if they want pre-rolls or post-rolls as well, in exchange for a reduced cost per download for the pre and post-roll placements?
Uh, this would allow people with shorter episodes to get something while giving both sides the option of choosing what type of placements they want. Yeah, this is a good idea. It's something uh we've talked about, we'll continue to talk about. If we can find a way to do something like that, we're obvious we're open to it. It's just we're we have a lot to learn about the ad space.
And so we are continuing to experiment and talk with uh people who are interested in running ads, podcasters who are running ads, and we're doing a lot of learning. So look for more and more uh in the BuzzRock ad space. Um, what you're seeing today is our first attempt, and we think it's pretty good, but there's obviously a lot of room for improvement. So keep sending your suggestions and we'll keep on thinking them through and see what we can get rolled out for you.
All right, and then we have 9,000 from Dave Jones. Kudos to the dev team for rolling out the email address privacy change this week. Love it. We love it too. Dave Jones also sent us 5150, which I looked up is the Van Halen boost.
Why is that a Van Halen boost?
I haven't the slightest idea, but it sounds really cool.
There's a Van Halen album called 5150. I don't remember what that's in reference to. I think it's a song on the album, but 5150 is a yeah, a pretty famous Van Halen album. All right.
Oops. And he says, please make a separate show called Podcasting Horror Stories. I'd follow and boost that right away if you put the crackling fire in the background. Smiley face, that was a lot of fun. And then he gave us a tent fire heart emoji. Yes, it was really fun. That was a blast. So thank you. I'm glad you liked it.
We got 8,222 uh from Mere Mortals Podcast. Hey gang, I emailed your team about getting my two shows set up with OP3 tags and they didn't know what I was talking about. Maybe you'd be able to do that for me. And he told us it was shows. Um, by the way, this is a buzz boost. 8222, if your numbers still come through wonky.
Yeah, I don't get it.
8222. That is the official buzz boost. I like it.
I know the eight is a B and the twos look like Z's, but why does the first two look like a U? Is that the closest we can get to a U? No, it's calling Buzz Buzz. Oh, B Z Z.
Yes, B Z Z.
I did now. I love it. Why does the first two look like a U? You guys missed out on that whole eighth grade period where people were like writing naughty words with their calculators.
Like I feel like I was listening to the teacher and trying to.
You'd have to turn the words upside down. Like you'd have to turn the numbers upside down for it to be a naughty word. So the numbers weren't upside down.
That's the only that's just the way to like blow your friend's mind. So when like you did it upside down, they're like, oh my gosh, this guy in his calculator blowing my mind. Uh for anyone who's younger than like 30 years old, this is what passed for like entertainment back in our day. So you guys have like TikTok now and like lots of fun things.
We were trying to write things on our calculators, or do like the six lines and make it into an S thing.
Yes.
Yeah. It was so cool.
So I'll follow up on that boost because I saw that come through. And so I went and checked. And our support team had figured it out and they had put in the OP3 tags for one of his podcasts. I went ahead and quickly added it for the book review podcast as well. And then I found his podcast in Fountain, and I boosted him back his buzz boost, his 8222, and said your tags are all set up. So that's the end of the story. Thanks for the boost, Karen.
All right. So we also got
¶ Who is Breakmaster Cylinder?
another boost from Dave Jones, and this one is um borderline blasphemous, I think. He said, Albin, is Breakmaster Cylinder a real person or did you make that up?
No. Did he really boost he sent that?
Yeah.
Oh no. Okay, well, time to derail the podcast. All right. Storytime. What was the context of that from last week?
The context was we were talking about episode footers, and you were talking about, you know, putting credits, and you briefly mentioned theme music by Breakmaster Cylinder, and I guess he picked up on that because he was listening.
Okay, so and he's a car guy. He's into cars. So I think he was wondering, did you make this up? Because I'm into master cylinders and cars and brakes.
All right. So Breakmaster Cylinder, um, I think better known as the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder, is a real person. Gender, not specific, goes by they them, and we do not know anything about this person. They compose a lot of theme music for podcasts. I think it's over 60 shows. A lot of shows that I listened to or do listen to now actually have music by the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder.
Looks like the first person to discover them was Alex Goldman, when Alex was doing uh TLDR, which kind of like was the precursor to reply all. And uh this is what Alex said. I found him or they, we don't really know, on the internet. I contacted him or they, and he agreed to work with us. So as long as they could remain anonymous. So that's how this person got into podcast theme music.
And now it's done shows for business casual, for morning brew, uh, darknet diaries that we talk about a lot, decoder, and like 60 other shows. I have also talked to Breakmaster Cylinder only over text, but on Twitter trying to get quoted for how much if we do another Buzzbrout show it would cost to get them to do music for us. So it's this very particular style, and I love it. I am such a big fan. So we'll need to like link to some of those shows so you can go listen to the theme music.
Exceptionally well done. It's also, I think, inspired. I think they're classically trained. I might be wrong about that, but a lot of it is like classical music inspired. You would not notice that when you listen to it because it's all electronic and it's a little like gritty, but I think there is like classical training in there as well. We'll link to it. I'm a huge fan.
And if I'm involved in launching any new shows, after I got these extremely reasonable prices from Breakmaster Cylinder, I will 100% say that's where we've got to go for our theme music.
Well, actually, I was going to get the link to put in the show notes, and I discovered that Breakmaster Cylinder has a bandcamp account. Yes. You can actually buy and download the discographies of like all the theme songs for podcasts, which is very cool. But they also have a ton of Creative Commons music that as long as you attribute it to Breakmaster Cylinder, you can use it in your podcast. And so I downloaded and purchased a Creative Commons song that I'm going to play this episode out with.
All right. Awesome. Fantastic.
¶ Post Show: Under the TikTok Influence
Sure you heard it.
I did. I've got the same problem on the other side of this wall in front of me is our shower and our master. It's not too bad, but I can hear it in my headphones.
I'm in like one of the noisiest areas of my house. And then the lawnmower shop's outside my window.
The lawnmower shop.
We might put that in the next guest video, Jordan. Make sure you don't buy a house near a lawnmower shop.
Yes.
I follow a guy on TikTok who goes around and finds like lawnmowers, pressure washers, things with small engines on them that are people are giving away for free on Craigslist or on the internet. And then he does little one and a half minute TikToks on how he brings them back to life. Super interesting. But it's like what I think it's what he does is his business. He brings them back to life, restores them, and sells them.
And he can show you how he takes a motor, like a riding lawnmower from like dead, completely non-functional, to functional in 60 seconds. It's amazing. I mean, it takes him days, but he cuts it down to a one-minute video. And it makes you feel like I could do this. It's like, oh, I'm gonna go find a free lawnmower on the internet and I'm gonna fix it.
You know what? I actually had that experience recently. I've been seeing a lot of like butternut squash soup recipes lately, and it always looks so good. And people are always like, mmm, like eating with like their French bread. So yesterday I spent two and a half hours making butternut squash bisque. And I hate squash, but they convinced me that it was gonna be good. Oh, I made it last night, and it was so gross.
I was like forcing myself to eat it because it's sweet, and I just I hate sweet food. Like it's supposed to be savory, not sweet. Soup shouldn't be sweet. So TikTok's good at making you think you can do things.
All right. So what I hear you saying is don't go get a free lawnmower. Yeah, don't.
It's not gonna be as good.
I just love that there's this whole category of ideas that are like, I saw this as a 60-second video. This might be my new lifestyle.
It's like I'm walking away from podcasting. I'm gonna restore lawnmowers.
You're going down like TikTok knows that I'm gonna really like this soup. And then you spend all this time, you're like, oh, it's terrible. I maybe should have read a recipe before I started making it. Kevin's like investing in old lawnmower repair equipment.
No, no, no. The recipe was good. The recipe was very good. It was like spicy and savory, but there was that squash sweetness that was just it, ah, you just you can't get it out.
I think the clue was right there in the title of the thing you were making.
Jordan's actually the one person who's benefits from those long, kind of like belabored stories at the beginning of the recipe that's like my great-grandmother used to make this recipe when she was a prairie farmer. And you would have said, like, it's mainly made of squash. And Jordan would be like, oh no, squash, I hate that.
But I love a good story, so I'm in.
Oh, I hate those, like the food bloggers and stuff. And I swear to God, it's like every time I'm like go to like revisit a recipe that I really liked on Pinterest. I have to like do that thing where you just scroll and you have to wait for the page to load, and they scroll again as far as you can. You wait for it to load. And it's just them giving you some crazy narrative that like doesn't matter. Nobody cares. Nobody cares.
Oh, no, somebody does.
No, nobody does.
Google.
No, that it's that's why they do that.
It's a SEO requirement. Yeah. So what's happened is over the years, I mean, it's really easy to copy a recipe, right? You could just say, like, bake potato, and you go into someone else's and you control C, control V, and you say, like, use slightly more sour cream, and now you've made your own recipe. And so when people were making all these recipe blogs, people were trying to differentiate them. And at some point, Google saw that as optimized.
Maybe it was when longer content was prioritized or something. But now Google highly associates all of this extra verbiage with being a good recipe. And so it's a good example, honestly, of where Google's kind of lost its way, in my opinion, with search engine optimization. Like the most optimized recipe shouldn't have to have a super long story that nobody's reading to rank.
Instead, it should be highly focused on reviews of the recipe or feedback saying that it was either good or not, or how to modify it.
Right. Like, or how many people tried to make that recipe and it came out tasting good?
That would be highly optimized in my book.
That's what I'm, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like I'm just adding on to your list of things that would make it good.
So to put like a podcaster spin on this, does that mean we should like start a blog and like have our episode embedded in the blog and then write like a long novel for every single episode about like the origin and our like grandmother?
Like it's even gonna be like more meta than that, right? It's gotta be five fiction podcasts recommended by Jordan Blair. And it starts off with when my husband Josh and I were on our latest trip in the car, I reached for my favorite podcasts. These are two of the ones I went to. My children didn't enjoy this part of this episode. It was too scary. And you have to go on for like 4,000 words, and then people are at the end like, oh, I've already listened to these five podcasts. Okay, moving on.
They're just like scrolling trying to get to the list at the bottom. Like, which what did she recommend? Okay, so maybe not a good marketing strategy for podcasters.