What Steph Tisdell Knows About Walking Away

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I can always have moments of like absolute insane happiness, because that's who I am. But it's very inconsistent and it's very unstable, and the drops are so so dark that for now my happy's aren't as happy, but my sad's Arena's sad.

Hello, and welcome to But are you Happy? This is the podcast that ask the questions you've always wanted to know from the people who appear to have it all. I'm Klas Stevens and today's guest Steph Tisdall is somebody

Okay, I think it depends what you define happiness as. Obviously, I grew up with a lot of privilege. I grew up with never wanting for anything material or financial, but maybe other things emotional needs. Not that I was neglected at all, It's just I was the youngest of four kids, and my parents were really, really, really busy to make sure they could provide us with stuff. Yeah, I don't really even know how to answer that. I loved my childhood, but I also recognize that there are some mental.

Health issues that I have probably as a result.

But I think that's pretty normal and I wouldn't ever want to make it seem anything other than privileged.

What was your biggest challenge to happiness growing up? What do you kind of remember was the thing that made you not be able to fully lean into enjoying everything.

I think from the outside, my family was perfect, and I think it was a lot of pressure. I think I'm very different from the rest of my family in that I'm a creative and an incredibly emotional person. I'm the only girl, and I think there was a lot of don't be like that. I think that was the biggest issue that I had. I also think my parents

And so do you think you leaving that environment in relationships and in friendships? Are you expecting the best from people? Like do you think you're putting that on to other people or do you think that you're just used to not prioritizing yourself.

I'm not really sure.

I think I have that stereotypical I want to fix everyone. It's been really hard to kind of unloan that because I'm not a dumb person. And you go, you kind of go, yeah, But the reason I'm making these decisions is because I have the capacity and I know that I have the capacity and the insight and the softness to allow people to be a little broken something. So you go, no, no, no, it's fine, It's different. I need to love somebody unconditionally because they haven't been shown that before.

Do you know what I mean?

And yeah, I make too many excuses for people, and then wonder how the fuck I ended up where I ended up.

Did you grow up with any because just from what I'm hearing from that, I wonder if you grew up with any religion or spirituality, because there is this idea, that unconditional love thing. I know from a Catholic background that I find it hard to differentiate between the two. That you're meant to love unconditionally and you are meant to see the absolute best in people, and everybody is see God in everyone, But then there's people who don't

I don't either.

It mean the hardest thing, I definitely didn't grow up with religion. I just I think I grew up with a lot of different perspectives and this kind of attitude that never ever take the simple, one dimensional answer.

We were always kind.

Of encouraged to delve deep and figure out why somebody would do something which you know, in hindsight or with therapy, I recognized was I wasn't allowed to have a feeling.

But at the.

Time it kind of makes you feel smart, right as a kid to be like, oh, that's all right, they were just feeling this. But yeah, a lot of damaging people in my life as a result of going because I know where it's coming from, or because I feel I know better, I have to forgive this and cop this. And you know, I'm in therapy. Who isn't anybody who's

This was a real shock to me. Like I've sorry, no, no, no, it's fine. No, it's because I didn't want to be prepared.

But as somebody who's very openly vulnerable, I feel like that's maybe the one area that I'm not.

So it's like, interesting, I've gone real serious.

And I think even people who had incredibly privileged childhoods, it really does inform your relationship with happiness because you might have a parent who struggled with their own mental health. You might have a dynamic that wasn't always good for

Yeah?

Oh, man, So at the time I was going through, like, I'm a completely different person than I was, say, four years ago. I was leaving a relationship that was very abusive and very scary to leave, and I was doing it while my career was blowing up, and it was terrifying.

It was the biggest break for me.

But I would come back to my hotel and just see emails upon emails upon emails and have to go to the police and be like, Okay, he's breached the DVO and just the emotional turmoil of everything, and you know that it's going to happen, and then you think it won't, but you can't figure out why you keep on staying and then when you finally go, you go, oh, it's worse than I thought.

And I'm lucky.

I mean, it's really hard to talk about because I always feel like I'm lucky because he didn't hit me. But the more that I listen and learn, I go, this was fucking exactly what coercive control is. And I had no idea who I was at the end of it, and I didn't have a second to stop and think about who I was, and so I was isolated and I was sort of stepping into this new world and it's like you both want to talk about it and not talk about it and laugh about it and not

Open yourself up to shit. Yeah, it was a really hard time.

And then at the end of it, I ended up doing another show with all of these queer women and they're like, I'm pretty sure your queer stuff and I was like, no, I'm not, and that I went, oh, no,

Do you think it was a process of things starting really really small, so it was almost imperceptible, that coercive control, and then getting to the point like when you say somebody's contacting you constantly and breaching dbos. Was it so small that it was almost just like it starts and then by the time it gets to that, it's been so gradual that you think it's normal.

Do you know what?

No, I think that's probably the case for a lot of people. When I look back, I go, what the fuck did I do? It was so obvious so soon. It really fucked me up because I recognized that I don't think I cared what I thought about who I did, and I just wanted to be loved, and the male gaze was so important to me, and I just wanted intimacy. I wanted children, so I really wanted to have kids with him, which I'm so fucking glad that I didn't, but like, I just wanted to be accepted.

Honestly, I look back and I go, I do not know how I.

Ever thought that that was acceptable, even the first time that I told him that I loved him, was oh, it makes me sick thinking back, like, it makes me really sad for the version of me that.

Would have accepted that.

I just thought he was so beautiful, you know. And I said to him because I just saw a sadness in his eyes that I recognized, I think, And I was like, you're so beautiful.

What are you doing with me? You could have anyone? And he's like, oh, no, you know. I was like, no, I look at you, and.

He goes, okay, So look, yeah, if we asked ten people on the street if they found you attractive, maybe one, maybe two would say yes, and then the majority wouldn't. But at least I think you're beautiful. And I was like, I love you. That was my first time that I told him I loved him, because I just I need that so badly. I mean, by the end of it, a lot of isolation. But I was also paying our rent and our bills, paying him a wage. He just

I don't know that he just he hates you, Like this is a man who does not like you.

But I was just scared to leave him because because I knew that he was wrong, And it was like, did I actually stay because my own ego and pride? And it's like, yeah, when somebody takes away everything else, you'll stay just to go. He'll realize soon that that's not This isn't okay. It's really odd.

What I find really interesting is even you talk me about your childhood and then talking about this sometimes I almost think profound empathy can be a curse because you talk about that sadness that you saw in his eyes, and I'm sure it was there. And when you can look at anyone and see their pain and see who they are, it's then really hard to look at them and say objectively you're doing the wrong thing because you do gymnastics to work out their motivation. No, actually they're

I agree, Like that's been the hardest thing in the with therapy afterwards toos, it's like, yeah, but if you can understand where somebody's coming from, or like if you know that they don't see what they're doing, because they have this gap in their understanding. Then you've got a gift you can offer them, and it say no, no, no, no, they don't.

Want to change.

And also the thing that I think I really struggled with was some people are sociopathic. Like of course, like I was earning good money by the time that I left him. I don't know anymore, but I was for a time. Because acting is much harder than comedy. You wouldn't have thought that, out of the two, comedy was the money maker.

But anyway, but like I.

Think he saw in me an ambitious but insecure woman, you know, who wanted approve all. Yeah, I think I was right for the picking, you know. And I think, though, what is difficult. I had a therapy session last week where my therapist said I was saying to her that somebody that I was talking to set a boundary and they weren't mad at me. And I was like, why why aren't they mad at me? She's like, because just letting you know that's a boundary. And I was like,

And it's hard to know when somebody said a boundary with you, they're actually not angry with you, and they're not angry with you because they've set the boundary. Yes, it's like, no, this is actually a really safe relation.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but it doesn't feel like that, yeah, one hundred percent. Because then I was like, what do I need to fit like?

And that Yeah, my therapist was like, do you feel better being in fix it mode? And I was like, fucking don't.

Do this today.

But it's true, like there's a level of.

Control if you're somebody who you know, like the part of me that I identify with outwardly, or the one thing that I want people to know about me above anything else, you know, like the biggest compliment that you could give me is that I'm kind, Do you know what I mean? I want to be kind because that's all I've ever wanted to be. And so it's like if I don't feel like I'm being the kindest person in the whole world or in the room or whatever it is, that that can erode at such a weird thing.

And it doesn't feel kind to look at someone and think you're.

A sociopath one hundred.

But you have to because those people exist. They just do. And there's a lot that wouldn't be happening in the world if they weren't sociopaths.

They're just.

H and it's it's so hard, hey, And but like my dad is the world's kindest man, like to his detriment, right, And one time we went out for dinner and like, this was like the last big fight that I have with my dad. We don't fight, we're really close, but we had a big fight because we went to dinner and I, for some unknown reasons, I don't even eat fish, but I ordered fish and chips and they brought out the wrong thing. They brought out like a steamed fish, and I was like, absolutely.

Not, I'm not going to be eating yeah, and then.

Dad was like, we're not sending it back, Steff, I'll eat it. And I went, Dad, you're not even allowed to eat fish. He's like allergic to fish, and I was like, like, no, I could just ask for that isn't what I ordered, And he's like, do not take it back? And we had a fight because he got up me and I thought, like, we're allowed to ask for the other thing.

Yes, we're actually allowed, actually allowed, and it's okay, and no one's going to cry and no one's going to hate us.

But man, there was a big fight at the table that line, and he was very unhappy that I didn't eat that steamed fish that looked disgusting.

You know that you didn't order us Exactly exactly after the break, Steph and I talk about the joke that made her quit comedy. I have a theory that the world lies to us a bit about happiness and that often the moments that externally look the happiest internally or not. And to me, it sounds like you had that experience coming up in where on the outside you were seriously

Yeah, yeah, I didn't think i'd survive it, like the whole thing. And I'm not just talking about from his end either, I'm talking about from me. It was the hardest time in my life, and you become this needy, desperate, like childlike version of yourself.

I feel really emotional when you leave because you.

Like have to restore all of your old relationships. And yeah, it was kind of new that I was in a position where I was doing so well, so all of my even people quite close to me, like, oh my god, look at you blow them up, you know, and you just go. I literally I feel ungrateful to talk about how fucking hard this is. And the better that my career was going, the more I felt that I deserved what was happening, because do you know what I'm saying, I didn't want to feel like, oh on now, I

That's it. Like anybody can do it, do you know what I mean?

Yeah, and you can't. Interestingly, there are two things you can't see in a photo or a video or whatever.

You also can't teach them.

Yeah.

I am always surprised by people.

That I meet that I look up to, and I go, oh, it's not these things that I have in my head of like odds because they're beautiful. It's because of oh they grew up here or they had this privilege.

It's not.

It's like people who know how to make everyone feel safe in the space. Well women, I don't know, there's a lot of fuck Menah.

But who you mean? You go, how the hell did you get there? Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

But like a lot of the women that I've met, I go, oh, you know how to make people feel.

I love that. That's actually really profound. And the hard work and emotional intelligence, the hard work element I completely agree with and have thought that you look at anybody, and as somebody who can be quite cynical, I can look at people and be like, oh, yeah, you're there because like you've got that fucker face yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and you kind of dismiss like you're there because of even like you can dismiss things in so many different ways about why people have what they have,

Yeah, Like I remember the first time that I met This is such a weird person to bring up because it's not the most famous person that I've met.

She's just had this like I don't know.

She was on my TV when I was a teenager, you know, Caitlin Stacy.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, I've met her and.

I was like, what's she gonna be like?

And she's fucking the smartest person I've ever met, like and hard working.

And that was kind of after you were doing comedy doing really well. Would you say you quit comedy for acting? And why did you quit comedy?

Because comedy was going to put me in the grave. It's the hardest thing.

It's the hardest because this is this is how I always explain it. It's the most vulnerable thing you'll ever do in the least intimate setting. I tell secrets on stage that I haven't told my closest friends, you know. And it's also incredibly lonely. I never fit in with other comedians, mostly because they're just a.

Lot cooler than me. Like I'm not a cool person.

I'd have no idea what to expect.

No, I mean like that makes it sound like I'm shitting on them. I'm not like they're great, but like I don't know how to banter. I want a D and M and I want to have an emotional yarn and I also I was having a different experience to the people that I was performing with, Like I went on tour, for example, I did the Melbourne Comedy Festival road show and it used to drive me nuts because I was always performing with straight white men. But we get to somewhere and when you're a person of color,

Oh one hundred. They literally would get up, And I'm sure for a lot of people it's like, leave political correctness at the door. Be as cutting edge and wild as I possibly can. But when you have an extra sense of responsibility that you are not only like it's enough being a bloody woman, and then you're an Indigenous woman standing there that you then have the responsibility of representing your community in a way that they are happy with.

Yes, the hardest balance was and I remember having this conversation with someone and feeling a lot of guilt and shame about it.

As I'm getting older, I'm going No.

I still and even when I felt guilt or shame for it, I still stand by. I kind of got asked this question of like, well, who's your audience. Is it white fellows or is it black fellows? And I was like, it's white fellows. I don't want to preach to the converted. Black fellows will love me regardless because I'm Black. We know each other's experience and stuff like that.

To my own people.

Yeah, but I think as well though, because comedy was never about I don't know, being famous or whatever. It was about sharing love and sending a message. Then again, it felt like I was just playing a different game to other people, And so my level of fear and nerves and anxiety before and after a gig felt like I was being too much again or too emotional or whatever, like there are so many beautiful, lovely comedians, like I'm

It wasn't wasn't your people.

No, no, yeah, because I couldn't just have that moment going like here's what I'm thinking about when I'm doing this joke and whatever, and then you go on theres a funny punchline.

You go, no, no, no, no, I.

Need to know whether you understand that I you know, kind of I've built all of this behind it to make sure that this says all of this, and most people won't see all of this, but one person, you know, and it's kind of like okay. And it was always late nights, early flights, alone all the time, and you get so weird when you're alone but surrounded by people, like you know, you get up on stage absolutely exhausted.

That was all I had, Man, like that was all I had, Like, you know.

I cannot imagine that would be the really, really tough fit coming off stage and then people being like you still like that, and you're like, I know, I'm exhausted, I need to go to bed.

But I'm too friendly as well, and I hate being inauthentic. I will get stuck in conversations for people for hours about shit, and I like, and I think, I'm so glad they're being so kind, but fuck off, And I hate saying it, but that's the fucking truth, man. And I think that this is very specific to comedians as well.

Over familiarity, Oh because you've shared something.

Yeah, yeah, But do you know what is so funny is that I think probably the thing that pushed me over the edge to stop doing comedy was everything that happened with my ex, Like it was so embarrassing I have to call up a venue and be like, if you see this person, you have to call the police, like, which is a very weird and embarrassing thing to do, but it haunts me. People will tell me hot boomeranger and they go, so where is he, and I'm like, he's got a DVO.

I was institutionalized I was gonna ask when you're talking about your ex, I'm like, there's a lot of jokes you made about a certain person, and I was going to say, is that here, Yeah, yeah, because all those they were hilarious. Yeah, it was jokes, and they were asking something pretty fucked up.

Yeah.

Well no, but at the time I didn't Yeah, I didn't feel like that.

Yeah.

But also like the was a bit of my existence was after the fact, he was like, well, I.

Made you, Oh Jesus.

I made you, so anything you earn I'm entitled to. And he was like trying to go through courts and everything, and I'm like and he's like, you only got a DVO because you are so you know, trying to hold your reputation together. And I'm like, no, it's because you won't stop contacting me. I'm scared you're gonna kill me.

That's not how Wow, that's not how art works. You're not entitled to my staff because it happened to me in my life. Wow. But it really is that contrast between you on stage looking so happy, relaxed, at peace at home, and clearly there was a lot going on around that, but.

I did feel happy in those moments because I was away from that. Yeah, there is no better, more powerful feeling than being on stage because it's love. That's why I think I also stopped enjoying comedy as much when I was doing more TV comedy then live comedy. I've got some amazing mentors as well, called Kevin Crabineri, who is my mentor who's changed my life, and he always says to me, the one thing that you need to know to be successful is if you love your audience,

And I always like.

I was mentoring a lot of people for a little bit, and I'd be like, if you're not exhausted after five minutes, you haven't put enough energy yet, you know, like you should be exhausted, because it's like you've got to actively feel you feeling every single corner of that.

Ye. Do you feel the same about acting? So you've been in CLASSO seven. You did Loves in the Air on Netflix and in Total Control it was more of a serious role. Do you feel present in those moments?

Acting is the best thing I've ever done, and it's so different to what I ever expected.

It's teamwork. Like, have you been on a set?

Yeah, I wrote a show for Singe and no, no, no, no, no, no. First I wrote an episode and was on set for it. Yeah, and it's it blows my mind. Yeah, Like I was like, you film things out of order? Yeah?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm like I.

Thought you filmed a chronology.

Yeah yeah.

Yeah.

Everything about it is so everyone who's reliant on each other.

It feels like community.

It must be quite a contrast to comedy, because being on a set must feel a lot more like a workplace because you've got this huge team of people around you. You have no choice, especially for performance, you have no choice but to trust the people with yeah, and just lean into that. If you don't, you just can't do it. And but that must actually be a lot better I would think for mental health. Yes, that you're around people.

Yes, I mean.

It's like it's double edged sword, right, Like I think I'm an incredibly anxious person, like I have like panic disorder.

I really struggle with mental health.

It's just something that I have a real problem with and trauma and blah blah blah blah blah, a whole bunch of shit. Whereas when you're acting, you've got a character that you can fall into and you kind of can have elements of you and elements of the character.

What the fuck have I just done?

Yeah, I've got.

Nothing in the tank.

Yeah, but my management's really good at like I go, I need time off after acting, you know, I don't know, I much prefer it, but I don't want it to sound like I'm shitting on comedy. It's just I know it was so bad for my mental health.

After the break, Steph Tisdell shares the invisible challenges that come with being a First Nations comedian. So you do that writing you are on screen. I imagine that you audition and have to deal with rejection. Yes, how do you cope with that?

That's a good question. I probably don't audition as much as they should. I probably am more interested in auditioning for roles I think I'll get that's not good. I don't like that. I need to be more open for a whole bunch of things. But I think I actually deal with it pretty well. It's surprising because rejection is something that I'm very afraid of. When it comes to to a professional rejection, I'll just do shit like refuse to watch the show.

Yeah, hetty nice, Yeah, but only to myself.

Like yeah, yeah, yeah, oh that's a good idea. And you'd also be tempted to watch it and then just pick apart the person to get the roles.

I was like, that could have been wow, ruined that character.

Would the people in your life think that you're happy right now?

Yeah, it might be that I've been in a long time. I'm not happy.

I think the more happy you get, the more that you have to realize how I'm happy You've been for a.

Very long time, which is harrowing, you know what I mean. It's like, I'm.

Probably the most stable I've been for a long time, which means I'm the most I'm the least happy. I have a huge capacity for moments of pure joy and wonderment. I'm aimlessly curious and spontaneous, and in moments I can be blissfully happy. My big thing that I'm trying to do at the moment is to stop distracting myself and leaning into the feeling of boredom too much, because that's all distraction.

How do you do that with technology? It's like, honestly, it's such a big challenge, and I know my life would be better if I was able to do that. And boredom equals creativity, and I know that TikTok so far.

I know.

I know.

I gave all my socials to my management.

Oh such a good idea.

I mean, I do still go on them only to check.

I don't write anything anymore because I just it's like it's just false, it's inauthentic.

I fucking hate it.

Yeah, I think what I'm trying to work towards is I can always have moments of like absolute insane happiness because that's who I am, but it's very inconsistent, and it's very unstable, and the drops are so so dark that for now my happyes aren't as happy.

But my sad's arena sad, you know what I mean.

And I'm moving more towards stability and normal attachments, not weird, anxious attachments that make me fuck up every relationship that ever comes my way, and working on my health. I've lost twenty two kilos and weirdly, my undies keep on falling down, which is the weirdest thing to happen, because it's really odd to just have your knickers falling down under your pants. But anyway, I'm working on my health and my mental health and I don't know if I'm happy, but I'm working on it.

And when you think about the rest of your life, is there anything you think about that you're like, I want that thing in order to be happy, or if I didn't have that thing, I don't know if I could be happy.

Money and children. I'm really broke. I suck at money. I probably don't need to be broke. I just have no ability to not buy whatever the fuck is in front of you, Like, do you know how many random like poop pens.

I've bought just like things where.

You just like clicking and then I lose them the next day and I go, that was eighteen dollars. You know, I've got a lot of random shit, So money, or at least managing my money better, would take a huge amount of stress off my shoulders. I would love to

Be a mum.

The reality is I haven't got the skills or the ability, or the time or the mental bandwidth to have a child. And maybe one day I will, that's the thing. But I'm also always single, and you know, so yeah, I don't know. I would love to have kids. I don't know if it would make me any happier or not. I play Auntie to a lot of different kids. Yeah, and better money management.

You have talked about therapy and what are kind of some of the tools and skills that you've learnt about managing mental health over some of these really really challenging times.

This is my biggest problem.

I am super self aware and I know what the work is, and I don't really do it. I still don't know how the fuck to sit with the heart emotion.

No, I actually.

I actually just don't fully understand it. I let myself more and more. I think there's a problem with being too aware. I think it can be I'm a ruminator and.

UBERNUTA that sounds like.

I actually think that CBT is something I need to move away from.

Okay, I have a theory about this because I wonder if it does sound like it would be. Because you're smart, intellectual problem solving thinking a lot, you actually know that your problem isn't that you don't know what you should be doing, what your issues are, what logical fallacies you're using. That's not the problem. The problem is like an emotional shift. It's like you know what you're meant to think in

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, well I've been addressing that recently, Like I switched to what's called body psychotherapy.

Oh yeah yeah, body psycho therapy be heard of.

That something I've apparently something that's meant to be good for that is schemer therapy.

It's like, yeah, I've done that too.

Did that do anything?

I did it with a hypnotist. It was the fucking wildest shit I've ever done. Man. Wi I like went to like a childlike state. And remember when I got mauled by a dog and im I didn't know And then afterwards I was like, adorable, STEP's been hormatized way because I was in that, I was in the session and she was like, and when was the last time you feeling out of control?

And then I was just like I killed him and she was like sorry what.

I was like, he's dead and it's myself and she went, okay, Steph, let's talk about this.

That's a great opening to a novel.

Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And what do you know?

What I was talking about was that the dog had to be put down after it attacked me and I was three, and I've never let the guilt go. My god, I honestly regressed back to a child and I was like, it's all my fault.

He's dead, and like I was like, where the fuck did this leaves?

Like I don't know if it was helpful.

I don't think I've thought about this dog bawling in like twenty years, and all of a sudden, I can't stop crying and grieving for that dog was in fault. He was abused. You know, it bit me by my face. I got I was going to have to get like plastic surgery, and then they said we have to put them down.

They didn't need to tell you that that You didn't need to know that as a child.

But it's traumatized me like plenty, So yes, so that didn't. No, I think exercise has been really good for me. Well, I've got big titties and lots of fat, so I'm always in pain in my back, so swimming is really good for me. I'm actually as of Saturday and running training with my brother.

Wow, that's meant to be a really good for you mental heality.

Yes, and that's that's what he says too. So we're I'm not looking forward to it, but it'll be good. I do have a terrible way of escaping my ship by canceling others, terrify others, but then they therapized me. So I lean into some really beautiful friendships that I've got where we've built them around recognizing that we're overly aware and under acting.

So yeah, those are my main tools.

Is being aware of when I'm distracting myself, like I recognize when I'm binging. I've been binging for the last few days because I've been really nervous about the book, and I'm forgiving myself for that and being aware of what expectations I have on myself and which one's a true and genuine and fair and not fair.

So yeah, it's that shit.

I don't know how the fuck you get to loving myself, but right now, forgiving myself or accepting myself is good.

Well, thank you so much for your vulnerability today. That was such a moving conversation. That's all We've got time for on today's episode of That Are You Happy? Steph Tisdell's novel The Skin I'm In is out now and I cannot recommend it enough It's a really, really beautiful story told with her humor and warmth about a girl in year twelve who's navigating cultural expectations and the complexities of high school. We will pop a link to buy