What Amy Shark Knows About Getting What You Wished For

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I think everyone does. Think.

You're just there with all your people you love and adore, and you're just having champagne and you're.

Like, let's go do it.

Ah, life's great, and it's like everyone's falling apart in the background.

Hello, and welcome to Bitter Are You Happy? The podcast that asks the questions you've always wanted to know from the people who appear to have it all. I'm your host, Claire Stevens, and on today's episode, I'm chatting with someone whose career has always fascinated me. Amy Shark was striving to make it in the music industry for nearly a decade when it finally happened and her song Or got her signed with a major record label.

You get your girls just so I can or you the entire challenges so I can feel with you.

And within a year she was winning arias. She was performing to huge, sold out audiences and on late night shows in the US. She followed it up with another album with songs like I Said Hi and at the Arias in twenty eighteen. She was that artist that just wins all the awards. She won the most awards out of any artist that year. But getting what she wanted wasn't as simple as it seemed. It was complicated, and

Yes, I do remember early stages of it being very happy.

My parents were divorced already.

They divorced when I was a baby, so my very early memories were always grandparents. So it was really close to my dad's mom and my mom's mom, and kind of even close with my stepdad's moms.

I added like three nands that were like so there for me.

But yeah, it wasn't until my dad got remarried everything sort of changed. So there were some dark times, but I have some beautiful memories of my childhood.

What can you remember is being like the first time you felt challenged by happiness, like the first time you realized that life was a bit more complicated and you noticed that you were feeling complicated, messy feelings.

Probably early on, I reckon, Yeah, I think I was exposed to having to grow up and really, you know those nights when you're a kid and there's so much happening, you're so upset. I remember being really strong really early on, like I was maybe nine, and being somewhere where I was just crying myself to sleep and being like I just not won't always be, Like this just won't be and I just had that belief. But I do remember being like, this really sucks right now.

Do you think growing up and seeing the kind of fracture in your family and maybe seeing how it impacted people's happiness, do you think that informed how you grew up and kind of the path decisions that you made.

Totally? Yeah, I think that for so many people.

That's why in my adult life, I've never really kicked the bucket and been like, poor me, I'm going to be a drug addict because I had it so bad, and I've just been like, well, it's kind of character building. I wouldn't be the amy that I am now, and I wouldn't. I definitely wouldn't be the artist I am now. I wouldn't be so many things. I wouldn't have met people that are so close to me if I wasn't

The older you get, you look at everything.

Differently, right Like, I even look at my parents, who I was like, ah, man, you sucked at that, and and then I'm like, they're just people. They're doing the best they.

Can with the time, with what they had at the time.

So you know, there are some things I'm like, no, I won't forget that, and that's I'm not going to give you a free pass with that one. But I do I look at things and I'm like, we're all just freaking human beings still and the best we can.

You rose to national and international fame with Adore in twenty sixteen, and you rapidly went from almost a decade of essentially trying to make it as an artist to winning arias, coming second on the Triple J Hottest One hundred. You're doing night shows in America. You've said before that you once got a rejection from someone in the music industry which said, please stop sending unsolicited material to me. Your music is no good and it's not something we would be interested in anyway.

Yeah.

Do you think rejection galvanized you?

Yes, Yeah, definitely need that. You need it because it builds the story, It builds your backbone, it builds everything. There's definitely times where you're like, I think I've had enough. I think I've had enough rejection. But it just goes to show that I truly do believe if you want to work as hard as it takes, and if you're strong enough, and if you really really love it and believe that's the reason you're here on this earth, I

You seen it happen? Because I'm so interested in your resilience in that time, because there are so many people who would give up, and so many people who do give up. They try something for a few years, it's not happening. They change direction. Is there anyone in your life where you've seen it happen that they're really really, really determined and keep going at something that you think they should quit.

It's really hard.

There's definitely been people that I haven't been really close to, thank God, but like I've watched and been sort of in the friend group of them at some stage and being like music is just not I know how bad you want it, but yeah it's going to happen.

Yeah, Like it's just it's just not there.

But also like I've known people, I think more so than that, I've seen people be so talented but they just don't have the work ethic or the drive.

They're so naturally talented, but they're lazy.

I've experienced more of that than me sitting there going Juez give up. Like I've had more of those feelings like you're so friggin good, but you don't care enough.

And do you think when you look back on like your own tenacity and the fact that you did make it and you've had this incredible career, what is the word you use to describe yourself? Is it a hard worker? Is it somebody who just isn't isn't impacted by other people's opinions like what do you put it down.

To a combination?

I think like I've always looked at like when people are like, how do you do it?

How does it happen? It's like a real domino effect.

But everything has to be lined up, and you don't even know if you've got them all lined up until it's happening, and then you look back and on reflection you're like, oh, yeah, okay, So I was unknown, even down to the way adore was one word and with the letter A and my name had shark attached to it, and just all these things that you don't realize you

I looked at that week, I was like, looks like fun.

Yeah, yeah.

I used to just work full time, like had to be there eight thirdy till five, had to race to a club and play till like midnight to a bunch of drunk people. And then you know, lug all my speakers back into the car and be at work the next day and look all corporate a different version of myself. And so I was ready. So everything was in my corner. So I was just like when I finally saw a glimmer of hope of like here's a little glimmer of

Everyone get out of the way, no one take it from me.

I'm so focused, it's wild, and I think that's yeah, everything just has to be lined up.

Were you almost like not willing to settle, like once you had that success. Were you kind of so determined because you've been on this track for so long that you're like, I'm not going to let this pass me by. I'm clinging onto this. Is that what you mean?

Yeah, just constantly like Okay, what's next, Okay, what's next? Yeah, Okay, I've got this other song, let's go like, and I've got this idea can we do that? And I've got this idea for this video, and yeah, it was like, don't stop for a second. Just keep going, because this could all disappear if I don't keep showing up and

And with the people around you, some of the people around you saying like this is amazing, like trying to just slow you down or encourage you to just appreciate what you had rather than keep pushing.

They probably weren't trying to do anything like slow me down or whatever, but I was so hungry that I constantly thought someone was going to take it away from you. So yeah, if they weren't working at the pace that I wanted to work at, was like, what's up?

You're not all in on this?

Yeah?

You like you know whereas I came into the industry, didn't know anything, working with people who had been in the industry their whole life twenty thirty years or whatever, and they're looking at it like, yeah, you just need to let's sit and chill and don't do an album yet, do an EP. And I'm like, why would I do an album? I have the songs and getting all, you know, frustrated.

Now, when you look back and you think about when you were pitching songs and putting yourself out there, do you remember the names of the.

People who turned you like, yeah, turn it back.

On you, And do you hold grudges?

Uh? I think I felt like this big weight off my shoulders and it sounds really silly and poetic, but once I released I said, Hi, I feel like that song had a lot of bitterness and a lot of anger in it. And I always feel free after I release something and I'm like, they'll hear it, and then I think that's I saw an interview with Taylor once and it was really I really felt what she meant when she said I'm so happy that my songs get heard. She goes, that's the coolest thing about my job is

And I think you probably have a totally different level of appreciation for it because you were kind of a fully formed human by the time that all that success found you, and you knew what it was like for it to not come easily totally like it's probably a really I don't know, it probably does a lot to make you a better human having been through all those years when you had all the success with Adore, you did the Late Late Show with James cordon and the

Like terrifying?

They really are. James Corden was different because that was the first one and everything was feeling really good and I didn't have time to get nervous. I kind of was just rolling out everything and yeah, it was like one of the very first things I got offered. So I was literally like quit my job. And then I was on The Lach Show with James Gordon. It was so stupid. And then by the time I did Jimmy Fallon, I remember I was really tired. I was on a tour and just wasn't in the best place with the

To do it.

I just felt so nervous, and I felt so much pressure, and I wasn't happy, and I was tired and just all the things and still managed to do it. I think everyone does think you're just there with all your people you love and adore, and you're just having champagne and you're like.

Let's go do it.

Oh, life's great, and it's like everyone's falling apart in the background.

Yeah, you forget that even when people are having those experiences that you watch from a distance and think, oh my god, it's a fairy tale, yeah coming true, that there's still all the normal tensions of life happening totally behind the scenes. And you then went on to have two years of huge like being the Golden Girl at the Arias, And I want to ask about that because that must be a little bit similar in from the outside, everybody is watching it. You look absolutely beautiful. You are

The Arias is like kind of work which people don't understand. Yeah, but that's why, like all my friends are like take me or have some champers and we'll.

It's just not like that. It's it's a work night.

Like even the very first Arias I went to, I wasn't even nominated, and I spoke that's where I met Dan Hume, who's done so much of the production for my records. And you're constantly meeting people who you may want to work with or so you're always on you know, it's not like I'm there just like getting lit in celebrating the album.

It's not really a night.

It is a night to do that, but it's also a night to be prepared if you do win something. And there's red carpets and I hate, I hate, like I hate people looking at me. I think it comes from I don't usually wear dresses and things like that. It's only for very special events. And if I ever did at my old job, everyone be like, whoa Amy, if you got a date later or what's happening? And I hate that. So therefore I've always dressed like just

So but it is what it is.

So yeah, you just have to go into work mode and just find that balance and just get through it.

Is it weird knowing like going into something like the Arias, I can imagine, especially when you're going in as like the person of that year, that there are all these options in terms of like how hectic you go with like a dress and hair and makeup and all of that, that if you wanted to, you could go fullL Kim Kardashian, or you could be more authentic to who you are and somebody your fans will recognize. How have you navigated that?

Yeah, I think it comes down to what you said before about being like a full blown adult, Like I think you can start freaking out and spiraling maybe when you're younger and you're not really you don't really know who you are yet, because it took me so long to work out who the hell I was, like so long, like I just I just like writing songs. I don't really care to look like Lady Gaga or I don't know.

Because I've had years of.

Like getting it wrong, years of like oh my god, like photo shoots where I look like a like Bambie and like just just like a not me. And probably it's my fault too, because I didn't really know. All I knew was I liked writing songs. So when we started getting somewhere and I had a really big meeting with a record label in America, It's like, what do

Did anyone ever try to kind of morph you or change your direction once you blew up, like especially once you're in the US and people know who you are there and you know you're probably making a lot of people a lot of money. Is anybody trying to change who you are musically or in terms of your image?

Never?

Wow. I think there was just sort of so much there. Like I had the songs, I'd done the work, people knew I was confident the way I looked and if I didn't look a certain way, I wouldn't be able to speak and hold the room the way I could. So I think everyone would just sat still and like, Okay, it's working, let it go.

Let it go to the point where I was.

Like my old manager, I was walking with him one day and he goes, I'm really glad that you keep.

It so simple.

It's like it's like a lot of artists have all these dress and stylists that has to travel and like, how are we gonna fit all these dresses in there? You know? And I'm like, well, I got like eighteen pairs of black jeans and I've got like thirty white T shirts and like, you know. So so I think everyone was like, look, it's it's different, and she's a bit different, but let's just roll with.

This after this short break. What happened when one of Amy's songs went viral? Did fame and money make her happier? Once a door goes completely viral? Do you feel extreme pressure with what you do next? And do you feel paralyzed by that pressure.

I didn't at that time, because I just knew I had so many songs and I was so excited to show them to the point where I was like, I don't want to be known as the adoor girl. I want to keep putting music out, and I think that's what drove a lot of people crazy. They were like, no, but we need to really rense this song. It's doing really well. So that's where my obsession came with, like, no, I want to keep going, keep moving, like keep up with me, just in experience. But no, I didn't.

I don't know.

I just didn't feel I had one musician and I won't obviously say the name of this person, but they were like, yeah, I mean it's going to be hard to like back up a door, and I was trying not to let it get to me. It was said in a very smug way. So instead of backfisting this person, I was just like, you're watching your baby. You've got no idea what I have on my sleep.

What didn't you expect about fame? Because I imagine in those years where you were pursuing music, you probably unconsciously imagined what that life would look like. What would people not know about the reality of being a famous, successful musician?

Oh so much?

That's so loaded, I feel like, especially now like I'm in album three, sort of phase, so the dust is settled, you know, you can start seeing who's changed, and it's a really interesting time for me. And sometimes it can be super heartbreaking because it's just so turbulent, like it really is, especially when you've come from working nine to five super pedestrian life and then the next menu and it you really don't know where. There's no book, and especially now music's in another whole ballgame.

It's so different.

Like even when I first started, I remember management being able to sit there and forecast exactly where I would be, what venues I'd be playing, where my album would come in, at all these things, and they got it all right because they could see.

The stats, and it blew my mind.

And now just knowing what I know now and the people I've met, and they're like, there's no rule book anymore. There's no forecasting. We have no idea what's working.

What will work, what won't work.

So it's just navigating every day and it can be very stressful and there's just no certainty about anything, and no one knows that.

And how do you deal with the fact that, I guess for a lot of people, you can't do me music forever for a lot of people, there's kind of a window in which you've got this amazing career. How do you compartmentalize your music career and the rest of your life.

Yeah, it's a really hard balance.

It'll be at a time where I'm the busiest, where I'll be like, I haven't spoken to the kids, like my nieces and nephews who I'm very close with. God, i haven't spoken to them in a minute, and I'll just almost put this pressure on myself at the worst times and never let myself relax. I still just don't

It's just cool to do.

But if it got really intense, I'm happy to walk away.

Yeah. Yeah. How has it been in terms of money changing things? Because if you're doing gigs and you're just working a typical job, I can imagine you've got a certain relationship with money and you're getting by and that sort of thing, and then you blow up, and I imagine that changes your financial situation. Does money buy happiness?

Money makes some things easier, but it also causes a lot of problems, like that song is legit. More money, more problems.

Like I'm always interested as somebody who can't relate to the problems. What problems.

It's a hard one to explain.

It exposes all the rest of the problems because you're like, oh, hang on a minute, got like a stack of money.

Why am I feeling empty?

Yeah, it's yeah, it's pretty funny because it also just changes the dynamic of so many things because I think people think I'm like a billionaire or something like even my family, Like I'll get cent links of palaces around Europe and I'm like you should buy this, like bitch, sit out. I'm like I'm good. Yeah, So I think people and I used to think it too. I used to see people on television and go, oh, all the money in the world, they probably got private jets, And

Life's long if you're lucky.

So yeah, you're constantly looking at it like Okay, well that's cool for now and some people when you have a good catalog, I guess there are times where you can look it into the future and go cool, like I'll sell it then and that'll be worth this much and you can do a little bit of that. But yeah, the rest of it's all up in the air. So you've got to be really clever. You know.

I'm lucky.

I married an accountant, so's I've got this nerd with me all the time knowing what to do. So but I can see how people get all this success and just blow it all and get really excited and then things happen and life happens, and then all of a sudden, you're like, shit, what am I going to do?

Like I know exactly what you mean. That money comes in, and it would be easy to assume that that amount of money is going to come in for the rest of your life, and you've got to be smart in thinking, actually, hold on, I've got to be aware of this being a particularly profitable moment in a very long lifetime. Does money make life easier?

Like I said before, Like, yeah, in some ways, like in the classic ways you think, like being owed buy a house, or certain things, little treats and holidays and whatever become more comfortable. Yeah, like, but the overheads go up, so you know, you're like, oh, I need help with that, and I need help with this, and they all need to be paid. And I want my shows to look like this because I'm playing these rooms, so I need production to be this. And my band's amazing, so they

And if you want to do something at a high level.

And good quality, yeah, man, that money can like go really quickly.

Speaking of Shane, you have been together since just after you finished school. What's the dynamic of having your partner manage you? I want to know the best part and the worst part, So.

Loaded we could be here for a long time. The best part is he knows me better than anyone. I trust him with absolutely everything. He knows the Amy Show project better than I do. He's very smart with his decisions and that makes me comfortable. And then I guess the hard bit is learning to be like, hey, I'm also your wife. We love each other, like you know,

So there's a theory that in romantic relationships and in professional relationships, you really just have the same fight over and over again. It just kind of takes a different form. What is your fight with your husband?

The constant fight is.

So we'll have our separate days and I would have just been you know, going go and going interview whatever whatever I'm doing, even if I'm in the studio and he's had I had all these conversations and worked all through the day and done some planning and that, and I'll always want to know what's going on because it's actually my business too. So but he's had a day and has not got off the phone and he's like, oh, babe,

That is an interesting dynamic that like do you think he ever feels in the shadows a bit? Like, for example, I can imagine if you went somewhere like you're right because of your profile and who you are, people would be like, oh my gosh, Amy, tell me about X y Z. Do you think sometimes he feels overshadowed.

Coolest thing about Shane is doesn't give a shit. Ye could not care. You won't see him at anything. He's so happy for me and he's happy that he knows he's done a brilliant job at managing me. And he doesn't like people, like he doesn't like well, he does like people, Sorry, he just doesn't like people. He's just so happy it's worked right, and he loves his job. He gets to work in music, and you know, he's got such a big hand in the A and R ring of the record and he gets so much from that.

Yeah?

Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah I'm lucky.

Yeah, And it's probably huge blessing that you've been together for so long, and that together before all of this happened.

I honestly like, if something happened with us, that's me done. I don't have it in me to learn anyone else or to meet other parents of people.

I'm tapped. I'm done, Like especially now, Like.

I look at people with profiles and they're dating, and I'm like, Jesus, babe, does he know like like or you know, vice versa, like are you dating this girl?

Like?

Is she just dating you because you're such and such? Like it's it must be so hard. I'm really glad that that.

Yeah, I don't have to.

Do after the break, the surprising times when Amy thought she'd feel her happiest but didn't. I often talk on this podcast about the idea that the world lies to us a bit about happiness and that often the moments we expect to be the happiest actually aren't. And so I often ask people if they have a moment they can think of where the world told them they'd be

Yeah, it's more just you'll have moments of wow, this is hard, and especially now more than any other time. Like I've obviously had moments at the late night shows where people think I'm living it up and I'm like crying in the bathroom, don't want to go out and play the show. So there's all those little things sort of throughout the last eight years. But there's times where

And I'm like, yeah, aren't you guys? I don't know anymore. I guys, I guess.

So He's like, damn, I feel that way, and I'm like, yeah, I guess. Like I tour so much, so the thought of packing a bag.

Form of fun. It's like, huh, what, like where are we going to go?

That's actually fun that we're gonna because it's hard to explain. You you associate travel and being at these certain places with work now. So yeah, Tom was like, I don't know when I'm happy anymore, and I'm like that's so sad, and I'm just like, yeah, I guess I see glimmers of that every now and then you can have all this shit and it's still like like I honestly, and then I'll go watch my niece skate and when I see her run up to me like just drops everything.

Yeah, that kind of image of being on a boat and him saying is it, Like, is it? I think that's really profound because someone like him and someone like you, you must find yourself in these situation where you're in beautiful parts of the world and beautiful venues and you're being doted on. Ye, And it's all the criteria of what makes for a happy moment, and the fact is that you just you don't always feel that way. Yeah, And sometimes you're just not really in the moment for whatever reason.

Yeah.

Is there any guilt that comes with that? I mean I know for me that there have been times where like it's meant to be the happiest moment, I don't feel that, And then comes the secondary emotion of beating myself up because I don't feel how I yeah think I'm meant to feel. Have you ever had that?

Yeah?

I think I had that. We always talk about our wedding night because like I was so done, Like I was just like we like smoke bomb from our own wedding and then I was so happy. The next day we were off to Hawaii, and I was like happier than I was walking down the aisle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, seriously it's yeah. And then you're like, oh, man, I should have spoken to Arnie whatever. Oh I didn't. Really, I wasn't really there. I was like somewhere else. Yeah,

You have worked with some really big names in music, people like Ed Sheeran and Jack Antonov, who often writes with Taylor Swift, and I can imagine you've been in rooms with some really, really, really famous people. What's your mindset going into a studio with Ed Sheeran? Are you terrified, excited, scared that you're gonna do something stupid? Like how do you feel?

Well?

That the situation was really hardcore because I was also jet lagged, so I flew there and didn't have much time to get on the time zone, and then you're in your head you're like, I have to sleep, Like I have to sleep because if I don't.

Sleep, I'm gonna be tired and we'll be weirdo. I'm gonna be weirdo.

Amy.

Anytime I have a big thing like that, everyone's like, you know, just go in and have a good time and just see what happens.

I'm like, fuck off.

Yeah, we all want to hit, we all want like so the pressure is so on, and also I want to show people like ed that I can write that, like, you know, think of me next time. You know you're putting through these writing camps or whatever, So yeah, you want to step up and flex.

And seeing him walk in was really.

Crazy because it was like, I can't believe this is happening. I'm here because you're kind of you're always like, is he going to pull out?

Or is this actually going to go ahead? Yeah, he's like.

Amy. And then but you find that pros have a way of making you feel so calm and relaxed. It's all the fake egotistical twats that don't know how to do that, and you're like, oh, that's a bit of a bummer, but all the pros and people that actually have longevity make you feel so relaxed and like, just get the best out of you straight away.

I've always wanted this. Do you go into a session like that, like cold, like you're kind of like, I really hope something comes out in this session. Or do you go in with ideas under your belt that you are going to pitch throughout the session and maybe act like they came up organically.

I always have things in my pocket.

Yeah, always, I'm never going in there without something for backup, just in case. You know, when you're writing a song from scratch you really like, especially with someone like Ed, straight away you realize I don't think I need reinforcements. He's on fire, which is inspiring me, and this is sounding great, and yeah, you just trust the process because once again you with a pro and everything is fine.

But I always have ideas always.

I've never really let a full thing go and acted like it's we've done it together. Yeah, because they don't let you.

It's not like it just doesn't work.

It's as like they can sniff that, like I think, so I prepared, Yeah, yeah, and usually it's not even that good, like with what you could do with this person, So you kind of just a few ideas, maybe topical things I try and not have, Like I never have a whole song ready to go. It's more just a line that I love, or a couple of chords that I might love and or a riff or you know, something just to kick it off in case I turn up and ed it's like, what do you got?

Yeah?

Yeah, sure, kind of with you because you're like a big deal.

Has anyone disappointed you, Like anybody that you've met in the industry and had really high expectations of don't have to name names, but have you had an experience where you went in really expecting to have a connection with somebody to you know, maybe it's meeting somebody who's an idol, and then it has not been that.

Not that I've worked with, but I've been in a I guess a hang environment where I've been like, oh, ye're a bit of it.

You're just not who I thought you were and that's fine.

And what kind of personality traits do you notice?

Just too cool?

Yeah, okay, just way too cool and that's fine. But I don't know, I just feel like the world's past that and maybe if you're I don't know, on show it somewhere where that's your persona or whatever. When you're in a when you're in a place where there are other musicians who are yeah, I just like, what do you think you.

Look like right now?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Like yeah, it's just a bit like oh, but I don't.

Really walk away going, oh my god, I'm shattered that that person has laid me down.

All the people I've worked with legends and so kind and still speak to today.

So when you get to this point in your career, do you experience jealousy and does your kind of benchmark of what you're jealous of change? Because, for example, when you're doing gigs, you might look at somebody on Triple J and be like, damn, I wish I was them. And now you're at your level, are you looking at Taylor Swift? I mean I want to do that.

Anyone that's looking at Taylor going on to do that is a psycho sit down. It's never gonna happen, do you know.

It's more.

It's more these days, simple things that I see that I'm like, I think I wish I was there. Like it's mainly just around my niece's nephews. I'm like, oh man, I wish I was at her birthday right now, or like I get jealous the little weird things. But it's very normal to still look at someone having a massive song that you're like, that's such a good song. I don't know if it's jealousy, but it's definitely like, oh man, why don't.

I think of it?

Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know I used to be when I first started, I was like even jealous of ah man, they're getting more of my manager's attention, or they're like you know what I mean, like needy little bitch vibes. But I don't have them anymore, thank god.

I want to talk about TikTok. You made the funniest TikTok about whether it's worth being a musician right now, and you said your label. You're being told go live on Instagram, post some Instagram reels, some TikTok content, go live on TikTok, get some things up on Facebook, some Facebook reels, do some YouTube shorts, Facebook fan groups, Instagram, broadcast, LinkedIn, Tinder, Grinder, and real estate dot com. And I laughed out loud at my sister and I have shared that so many times.

It's really exhausting, and I'm lucky that I have a sense of humor and I can have a bit of fun with it if I must do it. But I'm also the type that I don't have anyone doing my social media because so many artists are like, what are you crazy? Like, just get someone to do it, It's like, but they won't right like me. They won't edit it like me, they won't use the same songs that I like to use. It's just so personal, and that's the main channel for me to show people who I am.

At the start, it.

Was just like Instagram and Facebook or whatever, and then TikTok comes from along and I'm like, oh, this is kind of fun. Like I used to make videos all the time, like funny ones and whatever. But then yeah, when you add them all up, and I don't even want to say the word threads because it's something I am willing to.

I think we all draw the line.

I can't.

I got to kill it. Kill it everyone, boycott please, I can't do it. I took myself off Twitter, which I love. I'm loving not being on that. That's something management. Just whatever I've put out, they just copy that put on Twitter. It's a nasty, nasty place, and especially once you're on television, it's such so brutal out there. But I'm going blinde It's great. It's amazing. Kyle actually said

Things are not okay.

Yeah, speaking of that, you've done two seasons of a styline Idol. You won a LOGI for your role as a judge on the show. How have you found TV and have you found those criticisms different?

Yeah, they go up another level, I think because your profile just goes up another level, like even now walking around, I could have a hat on or a beanie and people know my face now, like it's no there's no hiding, which is fine. Like I wasn't fine for the first season. I really I was really reclusive and didn't want to go out anywhere I couldn't be bothered. I'm like, oh, if someone sees me, I'm not done up and I can't bothered whatever, And then friends and Shane were just like,

And I feel like people have a weird thing and yes with TV where they're almost like you're trying to be in my face and therefore I get to get angry at you. Yep, and it's like, I'm not trying to be I'm just doing my job and you have the TV.

On, Yeah, you're on that channel.

Yes, time that I'm on that channel, babe, And I'm not.

Doing anything to go out of my way, Yeah, to irritate you. I imagine you've built a really thick skin from music and from dealing with rejection. Were there any criticism that came with being on TV that surprised you with how much they hurt?

When it's your character, when people really think you're this other person, it's really hard to not fight back and protect yourself and whatever. And then I think the other hard thing is friends and family think they need to weigh in and you're like, it actually makes it worse. Yes, And then especially now where I really don't care, Like I mean that I do not care. You could write the most gnally thing about me and I just would

They just don't believe you.

And I'm like, you don't get it, Like I hit a stage now and I've actually been like this for my whole life. You hurt me enough, I'll just put you in a b and I'll never look at you again. And it's a bit gnarly, like Shane always says, Jesus Chris, you are. But it's how I've had to do things. And there's very few people that have hit me hard enough that I'm like, oh, okay, cool, You're nothing to me now, you don't affect me whatever.

But that's what online is to me.

Now. If I see a name that's like not, I'm like, oh, I don't care. What if I don't care? You're not my friend on my fan you know, in my circles.

What did people say about your character? Oh?

Just that I'm nasty and calculated and I don't trust her. And oh what does she know? She doesn't even sing, and she's only she can't sing. She's only famous because of who she's worked with. She doesn't even like. People are just saying.

Yes, outright lies, you know.

And then I've also got to remember there are kids on there, so they'll be like like, sometimes I'll read it and be like, oh, that's right, there's kids on here writing the like I think it's an adult, but they're just like you suck in purple like or don't ever wear glitter again because glitter is my favorite And you're like people okay out there.

And probably with family and friends, it hurts them too, Like they're probably looking at it and being hurt independent of whether you feel it. Yeah, they're like, I feel hurt because I love that person and I know who that person is. That's not who they are. It's such a hard thing to turn away from. But I think the healthiest thing is genuinely if you don't see it, it's not there.

It's so great.

Oh my god, I could honestly be getting completely canceled right now and I wouldn't know.

You wouldn't know, You wouldn't know what currently keeps you from happiness? Like, what would you say is your biggest barrier to happiness at this point in your life?

Probably a mixture of workload and having a profile. I think if I was an Amy Shark, if I was still just Ames who's worked at the Gold Coast Titans. Sometimes there's things I really miss about people not wanting me there to get a photo with their kids, or can you sign this? It's weird you want that for so long. You're like someone just know I am how cool signing autographs, and then it's just that tailor as old as time. Just be careful what you wish for.

You know, someday sad you say that you're in your sadness era? What does that mean? And what is it like to explore sadness through music? Does it help you cope?

It's a bit of a play on.

Words and titles to be honest, like, because this has got some real playful songs on it on this album, But you ask any artist, it's really hard to come up with some kind of title for your album because all the good shit's taken. But what I will say is all my albums have been quite emotional, and when I am happy, I'm out being happy. I'm not really sitting there feeling all melancholy. So it's the times that I do right and the things that are playing on my mind are the sadder feelings.

So this's just who I am as an artist. I can't help it.

So the whole Sunday Sadness was just I felt like overarching theme that kind of comes in and out.

Of the whole record.

Even the happy sounding songs have a little emo in there, so and it just sounded cool. Sunday sadness kind of sounded cool, and the sadness to us sounds cool too. Obviously, people know that I'm not going to be sitting there crying and the light's going to be dim and like it's going to be it's gonna be rock show, like it's gonna be wild out there.

It's who I am.

Like that that kind of storytelling as an artist is really important to me, and that feeling of being okay with documenting sad times and sad ish stories, even to sad ish melodies and production.

So music I grew up loving for some.

Reason as a kid, well, I was like to think of myself as a happy kid. I really took to the kind of emao we sadder songs and voices.

Even though releasing this album Sunday sadness and you experience obviously the full spectrum of human emotions, and that's what makes music so beautiful is the expression of those. Would you say that right now you are happy?

Yeah? I think I would.

Yeah, Like I'm human, So there's times where things are crap, but I reckon now after being where I am now, yeah I'm happy. Yeah, it's not on brand for the record, but yeah, thank.

You so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.

Thank you.

Yeah, it was a fun chat.

That's all we've got time for on today's episode of But Are You Happy? I hope this conversation made you think about those big goals you have for yourself, all those things you really really wish for that you assume will solve all your problems. Once you get their, life will be uncomplicated, everything will be joyous, and all your striving will be resolved because no matter where you are, there are always going to be peaks and troughs in