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On Hello, it's producer to listen here and welcome to part two of this episode of But Are You Happy? With actor, musician and Australia's boyfriend Rob Mills. In part one of this chat, you heard about the time Rob was at his lowest while in the spotlight on stage, his experience with Idol which wasn't quite what it seemed, and the one thing he hopes the media will just stop talking about. If you haven't heard part one of this chat, it's best to start there. So there's a
link in the show notes. But here is part two of Claire Stephens chat with Rob Mills.
You are engaged, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Can you just plan our wording for us as we're not going to it?
No, what you have to do. You have to do what I did, which was you give yourself a really short deadline period of time and then you actually can't make decisions because there are no choices available.
This is good.
So it's like choose a florist. There's one forlorest who can do it? Choose a venue. There's only one place that has a gap, so I think that will work.
Like I confused with the amount of toothpaste choices, like very stressful. It's very stressful. When do I want my teeth to be whier now a little bit later or very difficult? So we have decision paralysis. We're going away overseas in September. You're just gonna get married of.
Just a lope.
Yeah, but like it doesn't count anyways. You have to come back and get married at the registry office and stuff. So I don't think so. But maybe we'll go find somewhere that we both like and fall in love with, and then maybe we'll just do it there. Who knows. At this stage, you're just looking forward to a holiday. But yeah, we'd love to get married. I can't imagine it's going to be a very big thing. Our life is a gig, so like, I don't need the wedding
to be another gig. Just wanted to be, like because I what a live band and just like have my mates get up and sing and then that's it. That's pretty small.
You posted in twenty twenty, and this was before your book, and you write about it in your book. About losing two of your friends to cancer, and you wrote in the post I'm tired and I'm sad, and you were really honest about not feeling good at that time. And it was a time where a lot of people were struggling because it was COVID. And were you in Melbourne?
D're in COVID. Yeah, yeah, we were in the city city apartment.
Yeah.
And why Yeah the city was so dead. It must have been dead.
Yeah, it must have been a really dark time for a lot of reasons. How has death and grief changed how you think about your own life?
It definitely starts the clock. I'm post forty now, but yeah, losing friends who were forty and fifty, Yeah, it was pretty pretty sad, pretty terrifying. Also, like cancer, why why are they going after the good people? And the paper the good people? I think it helps put things in perspective and makes you maybe motivated to do the things that you need to do in this lifetime and knowing that you have a limited amount of time and to
use it to the best of your capabilities. Yeah, I think that's what it does, I think for a lot of people. But also yeah, during that time, it's we talked about this before, about the importance of community, but yeah, where are they? They're all online. It's weird, Like I want to see people. I think I remember talking about this about in the article, Like when we did catch up, we just drink and then just feel worse. Like, what's the activities that we can do together that help us
grieve and help us connect without without the booze. We don't really have that in Australia. Yeah, super important to acknowledge to grieve with your people during that time. That was really really hard to do. You know, for all the people who lost loved ones during that during that time, I can't even even imagine not being able to go to the hospital or not being able to be at the funeral, Like, yeah.
It was unnatural. It didn't feel happens again. Yeah, it didn't feel right to not be able to be with people when they were suffering and you were suffering and there was this physical distance. And I think it was a really clarifying time in terms of how important it is to actually be with people in a real sense.
Okay, so this is a question for you. Do you think we've straight after everyone was like hanging out all the time. Have we gone back again.
Yeah, I think we settled at do less. I do less socially than I did pre COVID.
You also have a baby now, yes, But I.
Think even before baby, I think people have retreated a little bit from society.
They forget that that was the and thing that we were switching for. Why do we go It's me and my job and that's all that matters. And no, you're going to burn out again. You're going to find the thing, oh I need of the community. Yes.
Yeah, you write in your book about this idea of men obviously needing to talk more, have more in depth conversations, and about how often the way men do that is side by side rather than facing each other. And it's something that I think a lot of people will will notice. The men in their lives are a lot better when they're half distracted and you can have a conversation, you.
Can washing the dishes or cooking and have chats about stuff getting to doing a task.
I read something the other day that it was kind of written from the perspective of a man, and it said, like, I'm not scared of being vulnerable, I'm scared of sounding stupid. That like they feel like they don't have the words. Do you think that's part of it?
I remember talking about my about this when my book came out. She's, like I said, generally speaking, women are much better at communicating and talking. They've been doing it for much longer uder age, it's encouraged. It's all these things right, And I said, would it be okay if women help men in this regard? Like you no, you what woman to do? You're better add it? Just help us help and not judge so much for not being good at it, because I think there's a lot of
blokes out there that do bot to talk. They don't have the words, so go for that walk. And also don't do it all the time. I think as men, we feel uncomfortable, so therefore we don't do the thing. Yeah, that's good. I like that. I'm going to use that. But also we don't like doing it all the time because we've already talked about it. Yeah, while you bring this up again, we just talked about it. Let me go away and process this, or let me go away and think about it, or put it in a box
and I'll won't deal with it for ages. But like they bring it up all the time, just bring it up once, you know, and let them go and think about it on his own maybe, but yeah, the walk side by side, go for a drive in the car doing a task together. Yeah, or just call up a mate and go, can you take it for a walk
and just find out what's going on. All that stuff helps men hold onto a lot of the research that I did for the book Guilt Shame more so than women versus said, I'm generally speaking, this is just the research that I've done and it's not helpful and we don't really know how to get out of it. For some blokes it's too much and they just will end
their lives, which is horrific. But we do respond well to connection to other chats are UKDA is coming up, And I think it's really important for people to understand that if you don't have that connection with someone, find the person that does to have that chat. You can't just walk up to someone you don't really know, are you okay? Like I don't know you, I don't.
I'm not going to tell you.
No, yea. And for blokes, this takes years sometimes to build trust with someone in order to have those conversations and the shit banter that a lot of women hate that blokes do. That's trust building. You know, we neg each other, we give each other ship.
That's actually and talking about the footy whatever it is.
That is building trust, yes, and that sometimes that takes a long time. But if we get to a place where okay, all that shit talking. Gus Wallen talks about it his Charity's Got Your for Life and he says, you know, just five percent real chat would be great amongst blokes And I'm like, oh, I probably like twenty five yeah, but that's more men. I'm in the arts, but yeah, five percent would great. Somewhere in the middle
there'd be awesome. But let us have our bands out, like we can't just have real chats at the top. It's fucking exhausting. You get compassion fatigue talking about feelings and yuck. It's not but you do need to let off the valve at some stage. But yeah, that's a good reminder for AUKD know that you might not be the person, but find someone who is. And it might be a counselor it might be a professional or or ask them do you want to have it about this?
You know, if not, it's totally cool as well. It shouldn't just be one day.
There's a mental health crisis among men, and I think the struggle to kind of be vulnerable and even have the language around how they're feeling is a huge part of it. And you know, we know that women are socialized talk about that stuff more and men are not.
And do you want us to you know, there's bass sounds in it, Like I think for a lot of blokes, I just I just had this thought, they're like, for shit at something, give a shit about it? Yeah, going, why are you shit at it? Like you're really shit at this? You know, like got it from a playful kind of perspective that might help break the ice maybe
as well. We don't like to be told off, No one likes to be told but like going with a playful nagging energy, maybe I don't know, like that's a way to break down the barrier for bokes.
I am terrible because I think there is a bit of shame that goes on in a bit of kind of putting shit on men about this. And if anybody just sits in it and thinks when I get ship put on me, I'm not motivated change I'm not And you can.
Or go towards something where I'm accepted. Yeah, which is I think is happening for say, a lot of men, for some men. And I don't want to overconflate the addrew Tate supporters of this world who are Yeah, blocks are awesome. Yeah, blocks are awesome. They can also be kind and compassionate and vulnerable as well.
It's giving them creation.
What have you got a vagina like whatever? I don't know. I don't. Yeah, he's not your messiah. No, no, no one is. Take something from from everyone is always my advice. But yeah, I think for some blocks they do well. I can't be accepted here, so I'll go to where I am accepted, where I don't have to talk about feelings and I can just be exactly that's helpful. I don't think it's helpful.
Little in your twenties, you experimented with your sexuality, and it was a different time to what it is now for people in their twenties. And I'm also interested because you had developed a fan base of me, these really enthusiastic girls. Was there any part of you that didn't want to be honest about exploring a sexuality at that time as a career move.
No, I never thought it was a career move. I just thought it was just like personally, I just thought, oh, I don't know, I don't know what this is. Yeah. So I'd been with a couple of guys and I was very honest with Georgie when we first met. She's like, going, great, it's amazing, Like, oh, okay, this is amazing. Look, I don't want to like put myself in the category because it's cool, but I do consider myself probably queer, Like I think I love the person more so than just
the sex, although I do love the sex. Yeah. So I think at the time, I was like, maybe there was shame around it, and I think that's why I wanted to put it in the book and talk about It's like, I think there's a lot of young men that want to explore these things, but a fear of judgment, Like because when you're a kid, you try out netball, you try baseball, soccer, you try so many different things to try and work out what you like, Like i'd
be people as well. Why is that weird? So I think I wanted to not make other young men feel the same way, or women or trans kids, you know, feel othered. It just is, and who cares? Who cares how you feel about other people society who get Like, honestly, who cares? It doesn't actually make a difference in their day to day but it matters to you. So yeah, go explore, do the things, try it out. I'm enjoying the rise in people coming to terms with their gender
as well. A lot of I suppose conservative people like, but why do we care? Like they don't care.
Like, just let white people talking about it, like.
The meatia is talking about it because it's a thing that generates clickbait. If it doesn't affect you, It's like looking at the menu. I don't want that, then don't it's something else? Yeah yeah, yeah, just there's something else on the menu for you, Like, don't look at that story. What are they talking about? It's important to them? Yeah the end. Yeah, just like that. I'm just trying to
break down the taboo around it. But yeah, I like the fact that there are more gender discussions happening and openly happening. I think that's all it is. I don't think they want any special prefluence or anything anyone does. It's just like, let us exist and then just let's break down the taboo around it or the stigma.
Up next a message from his fiance that brings Rob to tears. When you think about your own life and you think about potentially being an old man and looking back on your life, what do you think it's going to have been that made you the happiest? Oh?
This is good. Can I tell you a fun story? Few years ago, I was doing some work with the Reach Foundation, which I started by Jim Steins and Paul Curry. Is excellent. We love Reach that you go out and do empowering workshops for kids all across the country. They're fantastic. And one of the workshops I went to, we all
had to get up and give our own eulogy. They'd set up a casket or like a makeshift casket, and you stood up in front of it and you did your own eulogy and you talked about your own life.
Oh my gosh, what did you say?
I said to the thousands and attendance and the millions watching around the world. I wanted to start with a gag, just to break my own I remember talking about having performed at some of the world's best stages, and which I still think is highly possible. Although very tight. Now, I've probably had a lot more drive in me. That's probably fifteen years ago. If I look back when I'm older, just the really great life and that had helped people
along the way feel better about themselves. I think that's what I whether it's through entertaining them on the stage or it's just a one on one cover station and I've fustered really good friendships. I think that's something I have struggled with my entire life, but it's something I would like to get better at and to finally have learned a lot of songs on guitar, which I keep putting on this pod. Jervy Show will help me face my fears of playing guitar in front of people.
Before I asked my last question, be.
A good dad, I should also put it and be a good dad.
So you want kids?
Yeah, totally, yeah, just like just wait, just waiting. At least we're talking about.
It before we ask our last question. We did have one little thing that we did as a bit of a gift for you, and it is a lovely little message from your Beyonce Georgie II.
They are my favorite.
I am thinking that you may have been talking a little bit about me on this podcast. Hopefully you focus on my smart sex equalities and not just how average I am at domestic duties.
I've not said any of this, and if you've been.
Talking about me, what on earth have you been talking about? But since this podcast is largely about happiness and our relationship with it, I know that Claire has a very important question to ask you very very soon.
Hi Claire, by the way, it's like she's here.
I just thought, though, Robert, that I would remind you how much happiness you bring to my life and everyone who's lucky enough to know you. I think that a lot of the time we make our own luck. But when it comes to you, Robert Mills, anyone who knows you, who's lucky enough to know you to meet you, has won the fucking lottery. You are the kindest, most generous and joyous soul that I have met. I'm so lucky, fortunate, blessed, enter another synonym here. That I fell in love with
you and that you fell in love with me. You're first to keep learning and stay curious is number one hot, but number two I think what makes you the most remarkable? I truly think that the universe put you on this planet to spread joy. I do worry though, that sometimes we, myself included those around you, maybe take too much of your joy, and that scares me because you are the
most precious thing, and precious things are usually finite. So I am so happy that I can make sure that your will does not run dry as we continue this crazy little thing called life together. I'm so happy I get you all of you, the hard stuff, the great stuff, because I want it all, all of it. There's no one else I'd want to ride this cecil with. I love you.
We got Chash's very good. She's very good.
How does it feel listening to.
That god I talk about feelings? It feels Great's yeah, she's very wonderful. It's very lovely to hear lovely things about yourself. It's a weird thing. As I said, when you have the imposter syndrome, sometimes you forget You're like, oh, yeah, I don't make a difference, or it is nice to hear, especially from your person. I was like, where was that the therapy session? Yeah, that's not true. She is the
best and I actually feel the same about her. And I'm super lucky to have met someone who brings so much sunshine to everyone around her.
So, Rob Mills, you have you have an impressive career. Youah fans all over the country. You feel feared is with people who want to see you perform, and you bring joy to people through entertainment. But are you happy?
I am very happy at the moment, Like whatever first world problems that I have at the moment, overall, yeah, a million percent. Like We've never lived in a happier, safer time or country in the world. Like I am happy. I'm very lucky. I've got good friends, I've got a great career, and especially very very lovely partner to help me ride the seesaw.
I wanted to give space on this season to really talk about men and mental health and what we need to change in order to normalize vulnerability and help seeking among men. I think Rob's candidness when it comes to his own mental health struggles, even when they're quite serious, as well as what he he finds helpful and what
he really doesn't, is particularly enlightening. I'm not sure that shame is a driver of changing behavior, and I think sometimes we shame men for the way they communicate, but shame pushes people further and further away into isolation, and that isn't what any of us want. The idea that when men are doing that weird thing where they hang out and don't seem to speak about anything big, they're
actually building trust is a very good point. Join me next week for a chat with Olympian Ariane Titness about what success actually means to her and why she says swimming as only a small component of who she is.
I swim, I'm not a swimmer.
Swimming is an aspect of my life, and at the moment it's a major aspect of my life, but it's not who I am, and I know that who I am as a person has way more to offer the world than and what my swimming does. A lot of people never ever, ever wanted a.
Piece of me before all this success came. On last week's episode, I spoke to Laura Byrne about traumatic birth, the impossible balance of being a mum and leaning into your career ambitions, and the moment she found love on TV and it was nothing like what she expected. There's a link in the show notes to listen to that episode. If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave a review and share it with anyone you think we'll enjoy it. If you'd like to suggest someone for the podcast, you can
get in touch with me. My Instagram handle is Claire dot Stevens, or you can email us here at podcast at mummeya dot com dot au. Some of my favorite interviews have been suggestions from our listeners. This episode was produced by Tarlie Blackman, with audio production by Scott Stronik. See you next week
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