Here's When Setting A Boundary Is Actually Necessary

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Welcome back everyone, I'm a Shiny Dante and this is but are you Happy?

A Mother of Me?

A podcast where we talk all things mental health, especially for people who.

Attend family dinners.

Smile, nod and then quietly download therapy apps under the table.

And hello again from me.

I'm doctor Anastagia Hernis, clinical psychologist.

Now we all saw the Brooklyn Beckham very public family feud situation going on. He essentially chose to go no contact and made an announcement about it in a very public way the world stage, just casually and probably wasn't his finest hour.

Well, today we're going to be diving into weaponized boundaries.

What they are, how you can set healthy boundaries and when to make the decision to perhaps go no contact.

Let's get into it.

So boundaries have become such a big buzz word lately, and you know, for me, I am all for boundaries. I think there's so many layers to it. I know for me, I've been a chronic people pleaser for a lot of my life, so I didn't have boundaries. I don't even know what boundaries were, and I think it's really interesting because after doing a lot of self development programs, you kind of get to this place where people say, oh,

Share a bit more about that journey a shiny because I've got some maybe unpopular opinions our listeners may or may not like to hear. We I want them to tune out within the first foot minutes. Tell us why you're for the boundaries.

Well, I think because first thing I think boundaries. I know for me, my personal relationship with boundaries is that I used to not set them because I had this you could probably say, limiting belief, thinking that oh if I was a set of boundary, then X is going to think this of me, and I don't want people to not like me. So it was very externally driven by other people's opinions. But I think boundaries for me now is actually helping me to connect deeper to myself.

And that sounds like healthy boundaries, because healthy boundaries have got to be about us, not about other people. And you're reflecting that it helps you connect with yourself, your identity, your sense of who you want to be.

Yes, that's great, Yeah, totally, But.

I'm curious around how you might It seems like you've got a bit of an ick towards boundaries.

I don't even know if we say it anymore.

I don't know I still say it.

How you do?

Is that the millennial?

Enough?

I've got a boundary.

I get frustrated sometimes when I hear about the conversation around boundaries. You know, it's this idea of therapy speak, kind of entering the public discourse, which is fine, it's applied in the way it's meant to be. Yeah, I think boundaries have been at times twisted to enable us to kind of set rules, limits and expectations on other people.

I've seen videos.

And I've read articles and it's like, boundaries are your way of teaching people how to treat you.

And I'm like, i just get so frustrated when I read that.

Because I'm like, really teaching people how to treat us like we're school teachers.

Like it's a.

Very patronizing, punitive, other directed message.

Getting bit heated now we.

Take a breath. Boundary.

Yeah, it's like teach people how to treat you.

I'm like, no, focus on yourself and how you want to be within yourself. Set those boundaries for yourself, and that will have a flow on effect to how you engage with other people or don't engage with other people.

Yeah, totally, and I think it is. It can be a bit of that pendulum swing right where it's like people like me who haven't set boundaries before or really struggled with that, and all of a sudden it can kind of swing the other way. Being like I'm setting a boundary. It can be quite I don't know, like it could be what's the word that I'm looking for.

It's maybe a bit harsh or without flexibility.

Yes, it's jarring.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, And it's kind of like, how do we explore that middle ground as well, which I know that we'd love to come back to you on our podcast the.

Middle ground, the middle ground, the nuance, the gray fluffy bits in between. Yeah, I liked what you said a shiny about the pendulum swinging too far the other way.

Sometimes we see this for people a lot.

If there's a pattern or behavior that they have or haven't been doing in their life, and then they try to make a change, they can sort of overcorrect in a way. And look, I've got my personal opinions. As I've said, it's not to say I'm anti boundaries. I'm all or healthy appropriate boundaries that can maybe exist with some flexibility as well.

But I think when.

We think about like a cultural pendulum swing, I want to say, like, where are all the tiktoks on repair and compromise and having hard conversations with people you love even when you're really angry at them.

You know, Like, I'm thinking.

About all the content out there that exists on how to set boundaries, But what about the other side of that.

Which is, you know, having the hard conversations and doing.

The repair Yeah, that's so true. So I know we've expressed our personal opinions.

We got that out of the way.

What actually are boundaries?

Yeah, this is good.

So boundaries are essentially what we want or need for ourselves, not what we want from other people. So it's very much about the relationship we have with ourself.

It's me and me.

What do I need in order for myself to function in the way that I want to. It's really got to come back to about what we want and need for ourselves, not other people.

That's actually quite eye opening now that you're saying it like that, because I'm thinking as well, like when you think of boundaries, you are setting it for other people.

Yes, like it kind of is.

In that context, but now you're kind of flipping the script a little bit, being like, oh, no, this is for.

Me, Yes, yes, yes, And I think that's where it's an important thing to come back to because otherwise we can fall into the trap of using boundaries, whether it's intentional or not, using boundaries to try and control other people's behavior, and that is pretty much always going to be a recipe for disaster because we can't control other people as much as we would like to. Sometimes can't. We can't control or change their behavior. All we can do is set standards and boundaries for ourselves.

It's really interesting you're touching on the control piece because I'm curious to know from you. Like, then, what is the difference between setting boundaries versus actually you're controlling this person, and you've got to relax a little bit, you know.

Yeah, the controlling boundary is other directed. So it's and it often feels like it comes with a consequence for the other person. So for example, I don't want you going out with your friends if I'm not there, that's

Okay, So for.

Example, let me give you another example. Say I'm trying to not drink alcohol, but I still want to go out with friends. A boundary is when I go out tonight, I'm not going to drink any alcohol. A boundary that's other directed might be when we're out tonight, I don't want you drinking alcohol because I'm not drinking alcohol, or.

I don't want you to offer me any alcohol.

Like we can make requests, a request is different to a boundary. I can ask people not to offer me alcohol. Do you mean they will or won't do it? And if they still do it doesn't necessarily mean they're breaking the boundary. The boundary is me with me.

It's really good that you're unpacking it like that, because it feels like when you talk about boundaries is actually very open and collaborative. It's just like the energy is more open, whereas it sounds like like the control example you gave it is like it's a bit of like a.

Full stop yes.

Yes, Because ultimately the thing we have control over is ourselves. Yeah, so if I'm making a statement that's about me and my relationship with myself and the choices and behaviors I want for myself, that does kind of feel a bit more open. But because I can take ownership and control that.

Yeah. It's so true.

And it's interesting because something that we were touching on earlier around how boundaries have become this buzzword and so often it can start to fall into the category of starting a weaponize boundaries.

Can you tell me more about that.

Yeah, Well, essentially, weaponi boundaries is using them, perhaps in a way that enables us to avoid responsibility of our own. If I put my boundaries in the hands of other people, essentially, and what I mean by that is they can kind of choose whether or not they listen to and hold those boundaries, then I lose control. But then there's also

So do you feel like this comes up a lot in your clients?

Yeah?

Absolutely, Look, anything that kind of enters the world of TikTok and Instagram comes up a lot with clients as well, because it's where we get so much information of varying degrees of credibility, but it's where we get a lot of information from I've heard this analogy that I quite like, and I'll often share this with my clients, which is think about boundaries as being.

A gate, not a wall.

The difference being the analogy of the gate implies that there's a door that the other person can walk through. So by kind of thinking of boundaries as a gate, it's not like you're blocking this person off completely unless that's what you want to do. But you're not necessarily just kind of coming down hard. You're saying, here's the boundary, but also here's the door that can help you get

And then in a way because I know where unpacking boundaries and what it actually looks like. So is it that it's open for negotiation?

Do you know what I mean?

Because it's like, hey, I'm saying this boundary because it is a bit of a comma. It's not a full stop. So like, is that kind of where the world of compromise comes in and negotiating and those kind of harder skills that we we still need to make sure we're developing as humans.

Yeah, yes, look, I would say certainly, you know, when we think about the kind of idea of no contact, right, Like, maybe that's important for us to kind of jump to here. There are absolutely times where going no contact is going to be valid and warranted, particularly if you're being disrespected, if you're being abused, if you're being manipulated. You know, there are definitely situations where that's warranted, right, So I

And that's okay.

That doesn't mean we're doing ourselves a disservice or not respecting ourselves. It just means we're interacting with other people in the world. And that's not a black and white experience.

Yeah, it feels like there's a lot to unpack when it comes abound.

Right, They're complex, and you know, I've been doing a lot of thinking about this because you know, I've got opinions.

I see this content it makes me a little bit.

Annoyed sometimes, but I've gone down this kind of but it's data. It's data.

It's all data telling me something about myself. I'll unpack that later.

But I've been thinking of this question of like, and this might sound silly, but like, why do we have this current kind of fixation on boundaries, Like why are we so obsessed with boundaries at the moment. Essentially, what we're talking about with boundaries is a behavior. It's an action, like setting a boundary is something I do. But as psychologists, we're always thinking about what's underneath the behavior, Like this is what we're seeing on the surface, but what's driving it,

Now?

Why do I put that fence up?

Because I want to delineate that this is mine and in some ways I want.

To protect it.

It can still be mine without the fence, right, But a fence kind of implies that people may come onto my land, and I don't want that In some way, Yeah, so I can live on a piece of land, no it's mine, but not have to put the fence up. Do you know what I'm trying to say? Yeah, Like, what is it that we feel like we need to protect?

So I'm like, what's at the root of boundaries.

Maybe it's a bit of a fear of what may happen if people kind of cross over into my space, yes, and not feeling like I perhaps have the skills to manage that.

Yeah, I get that. I get that.

And it gets me thinking about like an example of you know, dating, you know, like I've got a lot of friends that you know, talk about their dating stories with me, and then you know, something happens on a date or an experience with someone, and then afterwards they make a decision being like, oh, I'm not going to have X min z I'm not going to And then it's is that them just setting a boundary because they're protecting themselves from not wanting to get hurt or was

Do you know what I mean? Yes, it's a hard one.

And I think that's where boundaries can be really helpful, but also do us a disservice. Like I've certainly seen people collect boundaries, right, Like I have an experienced collective boundary and experience collective boundary, and then suddenly they're walking through life quite boundary and that's very protective, but it doesn't necessarily allow for the flexibility and fluidity that we need in human relationships.

Yeah, totally.

So.

Do you feel like though when we're setting boundaries it is it's essentially helping us to not sacrifice ourselves again or you know you've been previously. I know for me, I've previously been in situations where I'm like, oh, I probably should have set a boundary. I fully betrayed myself in that moment.

Yes, yes, absolutely.

I'm thinking about two patterns or kind of deep seated beliefs or schemas that we see in people. One of them is a self sacrificing pattern, and the other is a subjugation pattern, and they both look very similar on the outside. So these are the the yes people like. You ask them to do something and they will say yes, and they will just go with the flow, and they don't want to assert their opinion because they don't want.

To rock the boat totally. But they do it for different reasons.

The self sacrificing person does it because if they don't, they'll feel guilty if they speak their mind, if they say no to a request, if they push back on something, they will feel guilt, and they don't want to feel guilt. The person who has more of that flavor of subjugation, they are more likely to say yes because they're worried about a negative outcome. So they're worried the other person will get angry at them, will reject them, will say mean things to them, will isolate them, etc. And they

Those are both very common.

I'm like rethinking about all the times I've done both yeah.

Yeah, and they're very common, and they're patterns that we want to try and break out of, right, And so being able to identify our boundaries and communicate them can be a really healthy way to break out of these patterns totally.

And I think as well, when it comes to boundaries, I can imagine it looking different across cultures too, right, Yeah.

Very much, so, very much so.

I've seen a few therapists online talk about this, actually, this idea that therapy can at times be very Western, I guess in its history and also in its application, and when we think about boundary setting, it can sometimes be with a view of being quite individualistic and self focused, which is a more Western way of being in the world, versus more collectivist cultures where the family and a sense of honor and duty are perhaps valued more than the

But also for.

Me as a therapist, if I'm thinking through a Western lens, that's not going to work for someone who has more a collectivist view.

Yeah, it's so good that we talk about it too, because I know, even for me, being like a first generation that's living in Australia from migrant families. It's interesting because there's such as a deeper la layer in that because we're also trying to explore the Eastern and the Western world all the same time. So it's like we want to be independent, we want to pave our own ways, but then we also want to be respectful of our elders and the people that have, you know, walked ahead

How do we set a healthy boundary?

Yes? Good, we're here.

Okay, So first things first, we need to notice and recognize that we need a boundary. The best way we can do this is tune into how we're feeling. A key indicator that we might need to set a boundary for ourselves is the feeling of resentment. Resentment comes about when I feel like I'm doing something I don't want to be doing and I'm resentful to the other person

So with that though, because I definitely have mad moments by being resistant to something, but then it was actually an opportunity for me to grow because then I do it and I was like, oh, that actually was really good. Yes, do you know what I mean? How do we discern between the two though? Is that just something that comes with time patterns?

Oh?

So, if I'm repeatedly feeling resentful in this relationship or with this person at work, or whoever it is in my life or in whatever situation I'm experiencing, if the pattern is one of resentment versus resistance, which might sometimes be resentment, it can be a few different things, but it's kind of a one off or you know, it's happened a couple of times, but it's.

Not a pattern.

I like that.

That's the first thing.

Second thing is then around actually getting clear for yourself what the boundary is. You need to be able to communicate it in one clear sentence. If you can't, then it's probably likely the person you're trying to communicate with is not going to really fully understand what the boundary is that you're setting. To help people reflect on what the boundary might need to be, I encourage you to ask yourself this question, what's the boundary going to protect?

And how will I feel in.

The future if I don't protect it and I just carry on as I am.

That's a good one.

Yeah, it will help people identify what is actually the boundary I need, what am I trying to protect, and then from that point I can set the boundary and think about the consequences for myself if I don't set the boundary.

I really like this because you know when I think about times I've set boundaries with you, because that naturally comes up, you know, in a relationship. I think sometimes I need time to step away around to actually collect my thoughts because in the moment, I might be feeling resistance or there's something coming up, and when I'm in it, it's hard for me to put language on it. Yes, so sometimes it's like sometimes I'm like to you, I'm like, oh, hey,

Do I know in the moment, you know.

Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely, the idea of I don't have an answer right now, or I need to come back to this, or it's not a no, it's just not right now. You know, that concept is really powerful for people to be able to step into so they don't feel pressured to give answers in the moment.

Yeah, totally.

Okay.

So then once you've recognized the need, you've identified what the boundary is, it's then about communicating it to whoever's going to benefit from hearing it. And again, we want to be using I statements, right, We're always coming back to I when you know, in this scenario, this is what I need, this is how I feel, and letting someone know when I feel overwhelmed, I'm going to need

Up next another why we like this bizarre behavior?

Unpacked?

Do you understand how your behavior is confusing?

Fine?

Dial Why are we like this?

The best way to understand behavior, We'll still look at the causes of an action.

So why are we like this? So why do we google things we already know?

I can do a bit of a reframe. Why do we chatch you big teeth that we already know?

Yes, I like this. I'm certainly guilty of this.

Oh yeah, you've seen those funny memes going around where like people like look in their partner's phone and they've like done on the calculator, like.

Nine minus three. They're like, what do I do it? Numbers?

I'm like, let me just double check what just in case it changed since last time.

It's so funny because we've evolved. The calculator now ISBT.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.

True.

There's an idea of cognitive offloading.

We sort of outsourced bits of mental work to technology and tools that we have available for us. If we think about, like we only have limited cognitive and mental resources per day, and even though you know, nine minus three might be really quick and easy to do, it still does require a little bit of sort of mental process up there. So the more we're using our brain through the day, the more tired we can get, the more fatigued we can get.

To.

This idea of sometimes googling things we already know does help us conserve some of our amitive resources, but it can also be a bit of a sort of you know, driven.

By doubt as well.

We're doubting ourselves and we want to just do that double check to make sure we're remembering correctly. Yeah.

I feel like I could definitely be the latter part, like just doubting myself and be like, ah, let me just make sure. Or maybe there's a perspective I don't know about a particular topic that I could add to it. Or sometimes I just want to be validated by my brilliance, so you know, hey, I will do that for you. Yeah, yeah, Okay, Anastasia, can you give us the main takeaways from today's episode?

I sure can.

First of all, boundaries are about what we want a need for ourselves, not from other people. Secondly, think of boundaries as gates, not walls. Third, don't use boundaries to try and control other people's behavior. And lastly, ensure that when you do set a boundary, you're communicating it in a clear and concise way so the other person can understand.

Thanks so much for tuning in to hear us on this podcast. We're keen to hear how you're liking the episodes and if you have any ideas of topics we should cover, get in touch with us the links in our show notes to let us know or review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and make sure you're following us on both platforms to be notified when new episodes drop.

And while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't a substitute for therapy or a diagnosis. Always take what we share here in the context of your own health and personal experience. If anything we talked about today brought up any difficult feelings for you, there are links to more resources in the show notes, and of course there are always organizations like Beyond Blue and Lifeline that are available to help.

Thanks for listening and let us know what you thought of today's episode.

See you next time.

Bye, Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters that this podcast is recorded on.