Angourie Rice On The Real-Life Mean Girls

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Muma Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and waters that this podcast is recorded on Hello and welcome to But Are You Happy? The podcast that asks the questions you've always wanted to know from the people who appear to have it all. And Gowery Rice is an actor you definitely know. She's been in Spider Man and Mayor of Eastdown and recently starred in Mean Girls. But how on earth do you go from being a teenager in Melbourne one minute to filming a movie with Ryan

My life right now is hanging out with friends and family and doing dance class, going bouldering, and doing French class.

That's my life right now.

And you're in Melbourne.

Yes, I'm in Melbourne right now.

Near family and near your mum, Kate. I wanted to start by talking to you, Kate, because obviously Angwie's career started when she was so young, and I'm really interested in being a parent to a child who who has huge ambitions and achieves enormous success at a really young age. So before acting, was Angary always a happy kid?

Yes? Absolutely, and Gary she was the star baby. She was the little baby who everybody you know, would pass around like a football, my dad would say, or just passing the baby around. But she loved it, and everybody loved Angary. She was a very I mean everyone still does obviously, but she was always a very sociable and engaging baby. But I should clarify from you said earlier parenting a child with big ambitions. Angari didn't have big ambition, and I would say that she probably still doesn't.

That's so interesting. So when Angary started acting, and obviously the family is in that world with writing and directing in theater and that sort of thing, when she started acting, how did you manage what jobs she wanted to do and what you were comfortable for her to do. Was there any anxiety about her entering the industry at a young age.

Yes, there was a lot of anxiety about it because I trained as an actor. I was a professional actor for some time. I was still doing work as an actor when Angary was little. So we were approached by an agent to say, you know, your girls are great. You know I'll put them in ads, well you can earn some money. And I was like, no, I've sat in casting agents offices. I know how awful it is. I don't want to be ironing their dresses and then turning up somewhere and have someone saying no, we don't

Definitely didn't.

I didn't mind any dresses. But as it turned out, the girls loved it to start with, particularly Angwery, and it just kind of went on from there. But I was very, very mindful of protecting them from all of the dreadful stuff I'd been through, and also as children, I didn't want them to do anything that they would ever regret or have cause to approach me for later.

And then there was sort of a moment and I don't know if it felt like a moment to you or a slow progression, but when and Gary got an American agent and then she is in The Nice Guys starring Ryan Gosling Russell Crowe, huge film, big star power. How did you go about weighing up that decision and did it feel like a moment where you were making a choice between the Australian acting scene and Hollywood, where things can be very, very different.

It didn't feel like a choice between one or the other.

Because when I.

Was auditioning for that movie, we were rehearsing for a fringe show in Melbourne. So we were doing this tiny fringe show that my dad was co directing that my mum had written that we had gotten friends to be in and then I had to leave for like four days to fly to la to do this audition. We found out while we were there, Me and Kate went together. We found out while we were there that I'd gotten the job.

But then we flew.

Home and then you know, I had missed like a week of rehearsals and I needed to catch up and we still did this play. So for me, it was I don't remember thinking, oh my god, this is going to like change.

My life if I do this. It was sort of like, in the.

Meantime, I'm just going to go home and do this low budget fringe show that I also wanted to do.

Kate, were you worried about the tropes about child stars in Hollywood?

Yes, yes I was, although again I think my experience as an actor really helped protect Angery from that. And yes, our journey in America as kind of a gang because you know, in Australia we were dropping Angary off saying I'll see you at the end of the day bye. In America you have to remain within sight and sound

I think that's something that from the outside seems to have had a huge impact on and Gary's career and decisions and groundedness. Is the fact that she's got a family who knew this industry and knew this industry themselves in a grounded way from probably working in Australia as opposed to the flashiness and the fickleness of Hollywood. Do you think, I imagine you do that Angary has stayed incredibly grounded and avoided the trappings that often come with

I think because she's really smart. She's very smart. You know what I think too, Like we as a family made a decision to go and live in Germany for a year when the girls were ten and seven, and that experience of having us as a family, having to navigate living in a different country with a different language and making our own way there, we kind of became quite a tight unit. And I believe that's how we've

I suppose, yeah, it's sort of a team against a common challenge.

Yeah.

Has it been a conscious decision not to move to la.

It was a conscious decision for me, and I feel fortunate that the decision came from me, you know that it was it was always my choice, and I said no, I want to finish school with all my friends in Australia.

I don't want to move.

And I think it sort of ties into this, like feeling like a team with your family and feeling grounded in that way that on set, I knew that the only person who was there unequivocally, one hundred percent on my side was my parent. And that's not to say that I wasn't protected or taken care of on set, but also everyone there also had another job is so knowing that this is the one person you have to

Percent on my side all the time.

And I think I just felt that I loved school. I really valued school, I loved my friends. And I didn't see an adolescence or a teenagehood for myself in the US. I just didn't see it for whatever reason. I just thought, how would that work. Would I just like leave school and not go to school. Would I be homeschooled? Would I go to school in the US? I don't know, And I just I didn't see that for myself.

It did come up, like we didn't think about it as a family and our member specifically meeting with a friend, someone who was a scriptwriter friend, and I remember sitting down with him and one of the things that really stuck out from that conversation was him saying, you need one hundred thousand dollars a year just to start and him saying public transporters for poor people.

Different lifestyle to Australie.

Yeah, so those were two sentences that made me.

Think maybe not for us.

Yeah, it's a very expensive and big leap to make, I think, especially when it's not just one person going, it's an entire family. And we'd made that leap a couple of years ago going to Germany and experiencing that. And also it's sort of a luxury when you can live at home and live far away from LA and still get jobs and be able to travel. I mean, that was such a luxury. It was like, well, if I can do that, why would I give that up?

What was it like for both of you for those years where you're still at school and you are going overseas and filming some of the biggest movies that are then coming out in Australia. What's that like going overseas, coming back going to school? Does it feel normal? Do people treat you the same? Are there any weird dynamics with the people that you know?

It wasn't so much. I would come back. I mean, that was the funny thing. I would go away and spend months overseas filming something that all of my classmates would see an entire year later, and school moves so quickly, so I'd come back and they wouldn't know or care, so It wasn't like people were treating me differently because

Together, You've written a young adult novel, Stuck Up in Stupid, and you're speaking at Sydney Ryder's Festival on a panel about the Austin Formula about Jane Austen's lasting influences. Kate and Gowery first went to you and said you should write this. What made you suggest co writing it? Oh, splitting the workload half a job.

Well, the idea of co writing had come up before. And well, you know, as I said before Anger, she's really smart. She had done a writing course already at that point. She's very thoughtful, and I'd written bits of prose before. But most theater and screen, and I thought having somebody to help would be great, and it was. It was awesome.

What was the process, like, did you argue, how do you actually go about writing a novel with two people?

Thankfully, I think we're both people would plan a lot, and I really liked that Kate took the lead in that sense of like, this is how I plan when I write, and I think we should do the same thing.

And it was perfect.

I mean, we already had an amazing book to work from, so it was about doing a chapter breakdown of Prime and Prejudice, then doing a chapter breakdown of our version, and then from there it became its own thing. And then we wrote it over one summer, Oh my gosh.

So we had notebooks and pencils and we would take turns. Every day. One of us would write a chapter and read the chapter that was written by the other person the day before, and add if we wanted to, no crossing out, only adding it was my rule. And then once we got to the end, we had a complete

And why does young adult fiction mean so much to you? Kate? You've done a lot of writing. Why do you think that audience feels so vivid and important to you?

Yes, this is something that's come for me a lot because I've written theater for young people, and I wondered if it was because I never grew up. I also, it really sticks in my mind how passionate I was about reading and literature. And you know, I remember crying because my mother would read a book and be dismissive of it that I loved, Like I was that intensely involved. I think because you do, and you never read or discover a book as an adult the way you do as a young person.

I think, hmmm, and do you think that is something that I mean for me when I look at that phase in life as you're an emerging adult and there's a lot going on and you're working out who you are and there are a lot of challenges. Reading for me was something that gave me a lot of joy and mindfulness and happiness. Is that something that you see as giving a bit of a gift to young people by writing a story like this?

I hope so definitely. Yeah, that's a really good way of thinking about it. And I still feel that joy of reading and going into another world and being absorbed in another world, in a writer's world, and what a gift that is, and it does make me happy. Yeah.

I think also that for me it felt like a gift for us as well to write it, because I remember I was sort of going through a difficult time while we were writing it, and I remember Kate telling me like, how would our protagonist, who's called Lily, who's the version of Elizabeth Bennett and we all want to be Elizabeth Bennett, Like, how would she deal with this? You know, put into her these qualities that you want

I chat to Ane Gowerie about whether she believes fame changes people. We also talk about the idea of surveillance and how it feels to be watched by the world and how that's impacted her happiness. And we chat about missing out on them as an actor when you're such a young age from being very close to it and experiencing it yourself. Do you think fame changes people?

I think it does.

I don't want it to sound like it's a completely negative thing, like, oh, people change to get famous, but your life changes, so of course it's going to change how you move through the world, just like any lifestyle change. If you get a dog, your life's going to change, and you as a person, you're going to change. You're going to go for walks more.

So.

I think it's the same thing with being famous. I think you do change.

Yeah, what do you think the biggest changes have been for you? And it's hard because you became famous as you were also in adolescent so it's hard to see which is which. But what do you think are the changes that you can identify being down to having this huge profile.

I think an obvious one is financial privilege, and I mean it comes in all sorts of jobs and all sorts of levels of jobs. It's also for a lot of people, it's really hard to make money as an actor, and I'm in a fortunate position where it is my career and I can make money from it and that can be my sole income, And of course that changes the way you live your life, or the way.

You can live your life.

I think another change is, yeah, this feeling of maybe surveillance is too strong of a word, but feeling observed and watched is something that comes along with it.

In a way that.

Can feel quite unsettling sometimes. Obviously, as an actor, you're watched by the camera in your job and all the people on set, or if you're performing on stage, you're watched by you know, two hundred fi few people in the audience. But outside of that, when you're not performing and you're just going about your life, sometimes I still feel watched because I can tell that someone has recognized me and is like whispering to their friend over there.

So that changes a little bit.

But I'm incredibly grateful that I get to do this as my career and my job and that.

I just love it so much.

And so this is something like it changed my high school life a lot because I had to leave and I would miss things. I would miss birthdays and I would miss parties. But for me, I would always ask myself the question, well, would I rather not take this job and instead go to this party? And that was never the answer for me. The answer is no, I would always want to do this. So no matter what difficulties come along with it, if you love it, it's going to be worth it.

I think.

You have worked alongside some of the biggest names and some people who have amazing reputations. What have you learned about happiness from working from a young age alongside people who have achieved the pinnacle of success in Hollywood, people like Ryan Gosling, Kate Winslet.

I think what I've learned from watching people around me who have worked in the industry a long time or who've been really successful in their industry, and not just actors, but also first ads and cameramen and directors. I've learnt that loving your job is kind of key because so much is out of your control. That if you're doing your job for any reason other than loving it, you probably won't get that thing that you want.

Because who knows.

The best thing I learned ever was from a first AD And I said, like, what's the best thing that you've learned as a first AD And she said, if there is no solution, there is no problem. And by that she meant if you can't fix the problem, then it's not a problem. It's just the way it is, and you have to keep going. And I sort of love that. So maybe that's one way that I strive to sort of find happiness in my job, even if

To move forward the way things are.

Is there anyone who's really surprised you in terms of how they appear to the public versus who they are when you actually meet them.

Yes, yes, Tina Fait, Yeah, actually yeah.

She is surprisingly soft spoken, and I guess I didn't expect that from just the characters she plays. She's so, you know, fast talking and like and she is fast talking in person as well, but she's very like measured.

You've mentioned that, Tina Fey, and I think you said the same thing about Sophia Coppola, that they're both very I don't know if gentle's the right word, but they don't raise their voice. They're really kind on set, and you've talked about the fact that that's how you feel safe and that's how you're able to give your best performance. Have you had experiences where people have been the opposite.

With that, thankfully, No, not personally. I've definitely witnessed, and Kate has witnessed too, probably a bit more than me because I was sheltered from a lot of it as a kid. But I've definitely witnessed people lose it.

I was just going to say. I also felt that was a big difference on US sets as opposed to Austraight sets. I feel on an Australian set, to lose your temper is considered a bit of a it's something to be embarrassed about, whereas I got a very strong sense on some American sets that losing your temper was expected and a way that you would command respect or considered that this was a way that you would demonstrate

Did that scare you, Kate? Knowing that, like when Angary goes to do a film, now, like when you did Mean Girls, Kate, did you go with Angary? No? Does it scare you? Knowing that there are those types of people? And do you worry that it's not going to be a happy experience for Angary that she is going to go into a project and it's not going to be as joyous as previous ones.

Oh? Look, with every project that Angary does, I would worry, you know, because I want it to be beautiful and fabulous and an amazing growth experience and incredibly creative, fulfilling, Like I want it to be all of those things, and there's always going to be something, of course I worry, But I also know that Angary's comes from a very very strong position and will be able to handle things like that.

When you think about Kate you've been able to see I guess, a very big range of what life looks like as a creative and you've written and you've acted, and then you've had a daughter who's had all these opportunities. When you think about happiness, what do you think the relationship is between success and happiness.

I think success does not always equal happiness. And that's right because you mentioned about you know, people who were very successful and kind of equated. Therefore, you know, Kate Winslet and Mind Gossling must be really happy, and I was thinking about that, thinking like I think they are, that they do seem quite happy people, but not necessarily any happier than mister.

Babbage, you know, yah, yeah, yeah, shop.

And it's something I do think about a lot, because I feel like the myth of success is not one that brings happiness necessarily, and that there's a lot to be said for failure bringing happiness as well, because it takes you to new places, it makes you reflect on yourself more deeply, I guess than superficial ideas of what success is.

Does that resonate with you and Gary?

Yeah, I think in the past couple of years it feels like there's more stakes in my career because when I was in school, it was like, well, I've got time, I've got school, i could go to university, I could do something else with my life. Obviously, I can always do something else with my life. But my career is

I think that's also as a creative that's a crucial part of what you do, because anything that you do initially you are not going to be good at. You talk about writing the book the first draft, it's not going to be perfect, and that is really bloody hard when you have high standards for yourself. So repeatedly doing those things that you are not good at is probably one of the kind of things you can do to yourself, ironically, in order to achieve success. So, Kate, did acting bring new happiness?

No? Acting made me miserable? Wow?

Why?

Well, first of all, I recognize that feeling of creativity and storytelling which I love, love, love and adore, and I kind of got that mixed up with performing and acting, and it's not the same thing, or doesn't have to be the same thing. It was for me very much found up with feelings of self worth in general. So I thought, if I perform and people love my performance,

And Gary in Hollywood, do you feel the need to be performatively happy because so many people look at people like you and think you absolutely it all? And do you also worry that if you don't come across that way, it'll become a story.

I think this happens with women in particular in the industry. I think there's a fear of being labeled ungrateful. And we've seen that happen a lot throughout history of many women who have expressed hardships or difficulties in their job and then being labeled is ungrateful. And I think for me that there is that fear of like, well, if I'm honest about how something affected me or that something wasn't a good experience, then I will be labeled as ungrateful.

You want to know about the good.

Experiences, and that makes sense too, So I think there's

But I think you're right that there's something very human about not feeling happy hundred percent of the time, no matter who you are and what your circumstances are. Up next, we talk about what Angwie has learned about happiness from people in the acting industry and from her mum's experience in the acting industry, and we talk about her role in Mean Girls, which was a dream, dream job and

I'm trying to think, Mommy, do you remember after when we were in can and it was after the big premiere for the Nice Guys on the can red carpet, all these photographers, like it was crazy, and then we came home and we were like, so that's it.

It was just that was weird, Like I didn't understand until that moment what a premiere really is. I felt sad about it, and I also felt a bit sad about everybody there, like everyone and everyone in Cahn, because basically people get massively dressed up, they spend hours and they've got everything happening, and then they will literally parade themselves on a carpet and then go home like they will do that, but no one's really living what they

It was strange too because like we had been there a couple of years earlier with this tiny Australian film and we had stayed in the old part of town, and we'd gone to museums on the weekends.

And we had just like.

You know, eaten bread and cheese and gone to the local supermarket to like buy our own food, like we'd had that experience, and then to go back and have this massive just to have our experience completely transformed from last time. It wasn't that I was like sad, but it just felt like this huge thing. And then we got home and we were like what was it though? Like what did we do? I just stood there. I didn't really do anything. And I think the other thing

Yeah.

I think that's the other thing is going to all of these spaces as someone who is a young teenager. The spaces aren't really built for you to have fun in that way, so it just feels a little strange.

I think that's quite profound that you've got those two experiences to contrast the far more grounded experience of going for an Australian film and there's not the huge budget, and then going and getting the full Hollywood treatment, and that actually feeling a little bit empty because you're almost not a human, you're just a mannequin and there's photos and all of that. How do you find red carpet

I mean, it's funny you mentioned the Mean Girl's carpet because that was such chaos because it was in New York, and in New York they have rules about like you can't block off the street, like you can only put your carpet on like a certain square meterage of the sidewalk, And so you've got hundreds of people crammed into this teeny tiny space and it was January.

It was freezing cold.

So everyone's there and the little skimpy dresses and other people are holding their coats. My sister was holding my jacket. So it was just like this crazy experience. It's kind of funny, like getting so incredibly dressed up for a couple of hours, it's really fun.

I love it.

I especially loved the Mean Girls pressed to it because I I had a really clear vision of what I wanted to wear, what I wanted to feel comfortable in.

But there's also all the reality behind it.

That people don't see or that people don't like talking about as much. Like that night, my eyes were watering so much from the press of having so much makeup. I got a rash around my eyes. So like the whole movie, I was sitting there like wiping away tears.

But it is really fun.

I think sometimes especially if I'm wearing something that I don't feel one hundred percent comfortable, it can feel a bit hollow. But for me and girls, I had a really nice time.

With Mean Girls. I can't imagine the excitement of getting an email from Tina Fey saying I want you to be in this, Like it's just it must just be so exciting as somebody who had grown up watching Main Girls like all of us. When the movie came out, there was some cruel commentary and there was some cool commentary on TikTok. How does it feel to do something that is so exciting and that you seem to have got so much joy out of and have people be mean about it.

Well, what's really funny is the movie is called Mean Girl, and.

There were a lot of mean girls.

Look, not everyone is going to like what you do, especially when you are making something that it's so special and meaningful to so many people. Not everyone's going to be happy. That's just the way life is. It Just it doesn't matter what you do. So there's sort of an inevitability in that, and I kind of knew going in.

That I got from that experience.

So it's sort of about, like, people who are mean about things will only really have power over you if you give them the power to make you feel bad about yourself, and I don't want to do that. You know, people are entitled to say whatever they want to say, and it's up to me to not give that the power to really affect me. So I think that's obviously easier said than done. But that's the sort of mindset that I tried to go into it with.

I don't know.

I feel like it's easier with film in a way because with film, it's done, it's out there, it's out in the world. You can it is much easy once it's happening. I think with theater it's harder because you can read a review and then.

You've got to do it again.

That makes it a lot harder, which yes, sort of just don't look at the criticism basically when it's finished. Once it's finished, there's nothing you can do about it anyway.

Yeah, And is that something you're good at? And especially I guess with social media being such a pervasive form of media that it's everywhere and it can infiltrate you in ways you don't say coming. You might not be seeking out a review and then you see something that's a little bit linked to something you've done. Are you good at having boundaries around social media?

Sometimes? I think?

I think what was really beneficial about meing goals is that I did the press too. I had a great time in New York with my sister with all my friends, like, it was fantastic. And then I came home and I was on beach holiday for three weeks and there's no internet where we stay at the beach, so it was sort of like, well, I I'm just not going to be on my phone because there's no internet. So I sort of just did it and then left and then

I think.

It just depends on how you use it. So I have a time limit. I try and only spend half an hour a day, but sometimes, oh my god, sometimes it's forty minutes.

Okay, now I know why you've achieved so much and I've achieved so little. That's incredible. Half an hour a day should be ol Motte.

Well, it doesn't always happen.

I mean there, yeah, but I think sometimes, like last week, I said, Okay, on Friday, I'm not going to spend any time on social media, and I didn't and that was good.

But you know, then sometimes I end up scrolling until two am. It just depends.

And Gowrie, you are smart and passionate and wildly successful. You appear to have struck a really rare balance between achieving a lot as a young person while also remaining grounded and authentic. Would you say that you're happy.

I think happiness is day to day and I think on a day to day level, I'm really happy.

And I also.

Just want to like acknowledge that I think happiness comes from your community, and the ability to achieve things do things also comes from my community.

Like there's no way that I.

Could have I guess people say it all the time because it's so true, but like I couldn't have done anything as a kid had it not been for the support and like very real work from my parents in terms of accompanying me places and taking me places, and not just parenting me, but parenting me in an environment that's quite strange and unusual for a child to be in.

So yes, I would say, I'm happy. Are you happy, Kate?

Yes? Of course, there are so many things in the world that are stressful and concerning and anxiety inducing and depressing. But yes, as you very wisely say, and Gary, it's a day to day thing, and I feel incredibly privileged with my relationships, the people I have around me, and that I have the opportunity to go and sit at my desk every day and put my head in my hands and go, I'm a terrible writer. I don't know.

Yes, I'm glad to hear you have that experience, even though it's so obviously not true, that's very relatable. I was so incredibly curious to interview a Gowery because I really didn't know what to expect. I knew she was really smart and incredibly talented, but there's a warmth and a gentleness and a kindness that comes through when you speak to both her and her mum. Somehow she's avoided