EP 128 | How I Prepare for Difficult Conversations

is very frustrating because it even works on me. But his ability to guide a conversation, to take somebody along, a journey with him, exploring options, alternatives to finally land on what he wants and to get agreements. It's just it's almost magical. And I don't want you to think that it's magical because it can be learned, and it's something that I have dramatically improved on over the last ten years. He's still the master, I just have to

say that. But for somebody who used to just fumble through conversations, not have certainty with their words, and it wasn't that long ago like you can learn a lot from what about share. So let's just dive on in. First thing that I do before a difficult conversation, well, let's qualify what is a typical conversation? Confronting somebody on them, not doing something, following up with somebody when they missed

the mark, when they did something entirely incorrectly. Uh. Talking to people who just are great people but aren't getting the results. Talking to people that you want to succeed, but they're not putting in the effort that they used to in order to get to where they want to go. There is no shortage of just different ways that you have to confront things as you're growing a business. And as I'm growing our business, as I'm focused on how do I keep communication in? I go back to the basics.

I go back to the things that I know work, and these are them. So first thing that I do, we use this assessment. It's called the R3 assessment. And before anybody gets hired with us during the interview process, we actually have to take this assessment so that we know what there are. Three is ahead of time. You might be familiar with Myers-Briggs or risk assessment assessments of

those sorts. This is similar but different. It's something that we spent at least half $1 million make eight uniquely ours modified editing a few years ago so that it really integrates well with the other business topics and business philosophies that we have. So this R3 assessment is invaluable because it shares the person's strengths, it shares a person's opportunities. And it also has this list of like do this

and don't do this when communicating with this person. So when I'm going to have a difficult conversation with somebody, I'm going to look at their assessment and I can start to understand, okay, how are they going to want me to approach this conversation? I am what's called a high influencer. This is this was titled influencer before influencers became a thing. I'm not saying I am an influencer.

I am literally saying through the assessment results I am an influencer, which means I love talking to people, being around people. I love social interactions. The more people, the better. I'm also a high driver, which means I want to get all of the tasks done as quickly as possible,

and I essentially vacillate between those two. Well, if I have somebody that I'm talking to who is a high analyzer and wants details, data, facts, spreadsheets, charts, sometimes if I'm not careful, I can entirely shut that person down because I am up in visionary la la land and they're like, but wait, did you say it was about 25%

or was it 23%? And they're hung up on some stat that didn't think it was important or material to the conversation, or I'm just rambling too much, like I host a podcast and I speak to people and I practically talk for a living. I do shit for a living too, but I talk for a living, so I have an ability to use words. I'll always say it that way. And if I'm talking to an analyzer, this might trigger them to just not get the best results.

Or if I'm going to give them feedback about the spreadsheet or the the proposed structure that they sent over to me. If I'm not. Precise in the criticism that a gimme an upset spreadsheet. But forget about it. Like I'm going to send them so far into their basement, but they're not going to be able to hear my criticism. So when I look at this assessment and you can use different assessments in your business, if you're interested in using the R3, we do sell them and we can

get you access to them. If you want to shoot us an email at info at Carto. I'm happy to get you set up. You and your team set up with assessments. But with the assessment is twofold. First, this assessment has already identified to the person where there's opportunity. So if you can understand what those opportunities are you have the leverage in this conversation. You know how they're going to respond. And if you know how somebody's going to respond, you can get a better outcome just by

preparing yourself. The second thing that is so valuable is if you're in a leadership position or you're the business owner and you're navigating a difficult situation with a team member, you could actually use the R3 assessment to get agreement on what the area of opportunity is. So let's say what the person that I'm holding accountable, that they are withdrawing from bigger projects that I have to assign to because they aren't bought in due to me not going

with their initial idea. If that was a conversation for that meeting, I would actually print out there are three assessment results, and I would ask them to circle or highlight the areas that they agree with and cross off the areas that they don't agree with in this assessment. So once I see what they agree with and it says that a challenge area of area that's problematic for them is that they withdraw when something isn't their idea.

I can then use that as coaching, and I find that sometimes it's easier to hear something in a from almost somebody else than it is to just like take the criticism. And what I mean by somebody else would be like this assessment like they are already agree that this assessment is true. So they can recognize this might be a blind spot versus Natalie. Just saying in communication it's a blind spot of yours. So that agreement that you're getting with that person, I'm telling you it's unbelievably

valuable in coaching people. One but then ultimately to getting the result that you're looking for. The next thing after getting access to their assessment, understanding what they value, what their challenges are, what their strengths are. I'm going to look at what their goals are, because if I can tie together how I know they're going to respond, aka R3 to where they want to go, I have the ultimate leverage in this conversation. If somebody is withdrawing, let's

just use this example. This is a real life example. If somebody is withdrawing from a project that I determined is a priority for this organization, but I can tell that they're passing it. They aren't really helping the team out. They're missing deadlines. That would be problematic to begin with. But with most things like this, just as like a little small caveat with most projects. The project isn't actually

that person's job. I think that person probably has some other function in your business a bookkeeper, a analyst, a controller, a CMO, a director of accounting, whatever their role is. So if they're missing things on a project, something that's new, something that you're asking them to work on, the the easy rationale from their standpoint is, oh, I'm just so busy doing my day to day job, the actual responsibilities

of this role. And you could take that at face value, but I never do, and I don't, because those projects are the things that move our business forward. It's not what everybody is doing. If everybody just did what they were hired to do and only fulfilled on those activities, our business could not grow. Neither can your business. Your business cannot grow. If new projects and new initiatives aren't being brought into the fold today to build the future

revenue streams, the future opportunities up tomorrow. And so when somebody checks out of these projects and they use the I'm so busy on these other things rationale when really, you know that it's because they didn't want this project to begin with or they didn't like the idea, or they had this other idea that you shot down, I'm going to take not just there are three, but also

their goals. When they say that they want to be the vice president of finance or accounting or analysts, or they say that they want to make more money, or they want to develop these skills to be able to be a better leader. I can use that to say. Do you think it's a good leadership quality that you're not engaged in this project? You're demonstrating to everybody, even though you're already a leader and you're responsible, that you

aren't really taking responsibility. But how does that align to you actually saying that you want to make more money and have greater responsibility in this organization, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, that's the core of the conversation. That's how you get the behavior to change. For them to understand that the way that they're acting, the way that they're engaging right now, the issue that's present is stopping them from getting to where they want to go.

It's it's not helping them. It's not taking them to the next level. It's not them showing up as their best. They're choosing to cop an attitude. They're choosing to be problematic. You're trying to get them not to have an attitude and not to be problematic without saying stop having an attitude and stop being problematic is how well is that going to work? Walk into a meeting along with somebody. Be like, you're being problematic. I could tell you have

a bad attitude about this. You need to have a better attitude. Kind of reminds me of like being a kid wanting to have a cookie and your parents say no and you ask why? And they say, because I said so. That's how it feels to your team members when you just say you're being problematic or you are just playing this issue, it doesn't really help that because then they're just pissed that you're telling them that they're problematic. It's going to compound the issue, or you're trying to

get is a different result. So you're going to communicate with them in a way. In this particular case, I'm going to show them there are three show them that it says, hey, you withdraw when is by your idea and then type, oh, why is that a problem? Well, you said that you want to be over this entire team. How can I trust that you are going to be able to be over this entire team if you're negative and withdrawn and products that you don't want to do.

Let me ask you another question. Would you allow your team members in the future to. Withdraw and be negative on projects, but you are asking them to help move forward with and they probably go, no, said I. That's what I want to do. So super, super helpful tools goals always. And then this R3 assessment for game changer. I go into so much detail about this in. But twice. First, my book called teamwork. If you go to carnivorous.com for teamwork, get a free copy that I will send to you.

You will pay for shipping, but get yourself a free copy. Invaluable as it relates to confronting difficult conversations and really guiding and building a high performance team. And then the other place is a People Essentials workshop. The book is one thing, but going through this, doing role plays and having these one on one interactions with me and our team in person. If your business is doing over $1

million in annual revenue, get the book. But also come be this person, because this is just the tip of the iceberg as it relates to the people developing the content that I have. So part three on this. One of my favorite ways to communicate is through the vision, commitment and execution framework called A, B, C, E vision commitment execution. So how this works is I'm going to

enter a meeting. I've already prepped myself ahead of time with what their goals are and their preferred communication style through process through the R three. Then I have to actually flush out what the ask is of this medium. Like what am I actually trying to get out of this conversation? So most people just go right into it and they start sharing why they're upset, how difficult things have been, all the problems. That's just you start the

meeting up wrong. That's going to put somebody at the defensive, that's going to put them feeling like they're being challenged. And then you guys are going back and forth in a debate. I just want to tell you this. You do not want to debate your team members. There is no ideal scene where you are one on one with the team member, and you guys are going back and forth about something that you're bringing up. That's a personal issue or shortcoming. And you guys are like going toe

to toe on this development area. Now, I'm good with going toe to toe and debating about ideas and products and finding to win for our customers, like, give me those debates all day long. But when it comes to somebody in their behavior and their competency in their role, I'm not trying to debate or put somebody on the defensive. I'm trying to get them to understand that I see this blind spot and I need them to see it, too. And we need to figure out how to work on

this or else it's not going to work. So the framework BCE vision, commitment, execution. I'm going to start with, okay, why are we even having this conversation? The why is always tied to their goals. The why is always tied to their goals. The vision of the conversation is to get them and the organization closer to your goals. Now you can get really specific around this depending on what their goals are, as you should like. It should just be. I want to help you achieve your goals and I

want the organization to achieve its goals. That's not like a check. Good job on vision. It would be more specific. Hey, I understand that becoming a vice president of our accounting department is really important to you. That's still important to you and that you get there by it. Yes, it is important to me. Or they could say no and then you have that conversation. But I'm establishing the vision. Okay?

If being the vice president of accounting is important to you, I want to make sure that I'm helping you see. Areas of opportunity that will have to be addressed before I can consider putting you in that position, because that position is very important to the organization, and I know it's very important to you, and I'd be remiss if I didn't share with you these things that I've seen that hurt your ability to actually get to where you want to go. Do you think you have that person's

attention at that moment? You sure do. So that's the vision. You're trying to help them get to where they want to go. Now, in that the next step would be your commitment. So how are you committed to helping that person improve and how are they committed to actually improving the vision you've shared? Okay. Why are we having this conversation? Why is this important? The commitment you're saying, hey, I'm willing to invest in you. I'm willing to give you

these opportunities. I'm willing to spend time role playing with you, whatever it is that you're willing to do, and then you're also asking them to detail out what they are willing to commit to in order to get better. Oh, I'm going to take a journal of every single time I feel like I'm withdrawing, and I'm going to write down to myself, I am ten, and then I'm going to snap out of it and I'm going to like, rejoin with enthusiasm. Okay, great. That's one of their commitments.

And then from their execution, what are the blocking and tackling that needs to take place in order for this issue to be improved? Now, this is just a framework that I'm using to prepare myself for this conversation. So I don't come in hot and heavy and maybe even flustered or all over the place like it's very clearly stated. Oh yeah, this is why I'm getting by and I'm connecting with the importance of this at the get. That's the vision. And then we're moving into, okay, where are

you committed to in order to make this happen? Are you committed to make these changes? Some people might look at you and say, you know, I can't do what you're asking me to do. This just happened to me about two months ago. I realized that I was allowing somebody who was working close to me to have half the output as other team members, and I started to do this individual's job because I wasn't trusting of them

and I wasn't confident in their ability to execute. So I sat down and I said, listen, come Monday, I know it's Friday right now. Come Monday, my intention is to expect out of you what the job description states. We hired you to do this role. You're doing this role at half output. That is not acceptable. And I cannot tolerate this any longer in this role because it's affecting my ability to do my job. And I'm paying

you to do the full job. So my expectations are not only not being met, but you're not going over and above my expectations. This is a problem for me. So I want you to take the weekend, and I want you to think about if you are willing to put in the effort and energy to become better at these five very specific things. Or if you'd like to figure out how a transition plan can work, and we will support you in a transition, and we'll figure out

how to make this go as smoothly as possible. And what comes around for team member says, I don't think that I can give this job anymore than I currently am. I have other priorities right now and this isn't working for me. Okay, great. Find the next person. We replace this person. And two and a half weeks. I still have great affinity for this person. Like it's not that this person's a bad person, they just weren't fulfilling the expectation. I've since backfilled the role and the new person is

kicking ass in the role, so everybody wins. A new person gets to come into the organization and be valued, and I get the value out of what I paid to have this role support me, and the previous team member gets to go do something that's more in alignment with what their priorities are. That is a win win. That is not a problem. So framing that conversation using vision, commitment, execution means that I didn't just go in there and was like all over the place and super sloppy and

rambling on and on and not being specific. I was very specific. Are you willing to do what is going to require. I'm willing to tell you what is required. Are you willing to do those things? Yes or no? You could think about it. Let me know. I'm not that super clear. The more clear you are in difficult conversations, the more success you are going to have when having the conversation. With that, I hope you enjoyed this episode of Building Billions. If you haven't yet, give Building Billions

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