S1: Ep 7 - Are You Kidding Me?

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After nine days in court, the State of Georgia versus Jan Barry Sandlin for the murder of Matthew Goulder had gone to the jury.

Every juror in every criminal trial has the responsibility to evaluate the evidence to make sure that the state has proved the defendant's guilt beyond a reasonable doubts. So I suspect that they were singularly focused on is there enough evidence to demonstrate that Jan Barry Sandlin committed this crime?

I'm Nancy glam and this is Burden of Guilt, Episode seven. Are you kidding Me? After one day, on one night the jury returned. Prosecutor Lie and Mangun didn't have any idea which way the decision would go.

There have been trials in the course of my life where I thought I certainly had provided enough evidence to demonstrate a defendant guilt and it was a not guilty verdict, and then other ones that felt like a much closer call that were a guilty verdict.

Have you completed the verdict? Would you hand it to the deputy and let him pass it to me?

Please?

This is a three count indict much. I'll read the verdict on each of the three counts. Count one is the malice murder count. The verdict of the jury. We the jury found the defendant Jan Barry Sandlin not guilty of count one.

Lead Assistant District Attorney Jeff Brickman.

When the verdict was rad count one malice murder, Jerry found him not guilty.

Malice murder, meaning that there was an intent to kill.

My stomach dropped, Leanne's did everybody in our office? I can assure you did. As a prosecutor. When count one is not guilty, bad thoughts start happening.

Count two is a fella in the murder. We the jury find the defendant guilty of count two. Count three is a fellow in the murder. Count We the jury find the defendant guilty of Count three.

Guilty with mandatory state sentencing guidelines. Judge Fuller went directly to the next step.

Council, what are your thoughts on sentence and of the states?

Ready now if the court would let to proceed at this.

Time, Defense counsel Krin Mall could not resist another chance to show her disdain.

You might as well the misery out of the way.

You might as well get the misery out of the way. If Karen thought it was misery, Racy Raquel thought it was justice that was finally delivered for the vicious murder of Matthew. It was the culmination of a decade's long struggle with family secrets, a solitary search for answers, and years of collecting evidence, and all this was due to the work of one brave girl who never forgot her baby brother.

Saleh, You've been found guilty of two counts of fell Any murder. Each of those two counts. Are are sent you to life imprisonment.

The court room was quiet. There were no eruptions. Len Manguin describes the moment.

It's hard because it's not a celebratory feeling when a jury reaches a guilty verdict. I remember being glad for Tracy, and glad for Kathy, and glad that the person who was in my mind unquestionably responsible for Matthew's death, had been found guilty.

Local and national media covered the verdict. Tracy riquel wasn't interested in notoriety. She didn't talk that day, but Kathy spoke.

Kathy Allman says the trial has been emotionally draining, but she finally feels relief after her ex husband's conviction.

Yes, I'm most definite right, Ernie.

He was on drugs at the time he beat me for nine and a half years.

That he's where he needs to be.

Do you remember the moment you heard the judge say guilty.

There was a huge sense of relief and validation.

Knowing Tracy Riquela as I do now, I was unsurprised when Leanne reached into her case file and pulled out a card that she received after the trial. It's something she's kept all these years and was happy to read to us.

Delianne, it has been more than a year since I received that first phone call from you telling me you would be handling this case. It was, after all worth it. Good luck with your very bright future. I feel fortunate to have known you. You helped me to heal and to grow.

Thank you.

I will be telling my children about you best wishes, Tracy Rain.

Wouldn't it be nice if Jan Berry Sandlm was carted off to prison and the story ended there well. Shortly after Jan's conviction came the You've got to be kidding me moment.

After Jan's conviction, I got a phone call saying that he'd been granted the new trial.

In the motion for new trial, the defense attorney Corin Mall said that she was incompetent.

Listening to the trial. You could describe Carin in many ways, but incompetent would not be one of them. Now, she was saying, she provided Jan Barry Sanlm with ineffective assistance of counsel. We told you that an autopsy had been performed at the funeral home two days after Matthew died. The autopsy was performed by doctor Robert Stivers. After Sandlm was convicted, Doctor Stivers called public defender Malling why he

I know, miss mal she's a very good public defender, and for her to say she was ineffective in that second trial only because her client was found guilty of a crime that he committed.

Stivers had personal problems that derailed his career. Alcoholism lost him his medical license. Could that be the reason he wasn't previously called to testify? Did she view him as unreliable?

Again? Judge Fuller granted.

It, and that meant a third trial. The prosecutor's office was flabbergasted. And as for Tracy Raquel.

I just thought this is never going to end, like we're just going to do this. I guess so okay, And he had a new lawyer, and this lawyer had taken the case because he wanted the publicity.

Steve Sadau was a young, successful criminal defense attorney. He took the case pro bono.

The reason I got involved in the case is because ego wise, I thought that I could try it better than anyone else could, and if he stood any chance to win, it would be with me.

Decades later, Steve Sadao is still a force in Georgia. Former President Donald Trump recently hired him to fight conspiration charges associated with the twenty twenty election. This time there was a new prosecution team, Ada Lawrence Delon opened with this Matthew Stephen Golder laughed out loud for the first time for his mother on December twenty seventh, nineteen seventy one.

The state's case was clearly that Sandlin had done something. I believe there was equal evidence based on his prior statement to police that Tracy had, for whatever reason, accidentally or otherwise pushed the baby out of the crew. That doesn't make Tracy homicidal. It just means the incident or event occurred.

Steve Saido proved to be a thorough and well prepared attorney, but Kathy seemed to get under his skin.

Kathy was very emotional on the stand. I say this with all due respect because I don't know her. She played her part well.

During the first two trials, Tracy Riquel had avoided any direct contact with jan other than the threatening phone calls he made to her home. This time was different.

I was sitting on a bench outside the courtroom, and I just happened to be sitting on the side that's closest to where they bring the defend it out and out. He came through the store to my right, and they walked up to the elevator and pushed the button, and he was kind of snickering and you know, happy as can be. He didn't know it was there. I just don't know what came over me. I stood up and I stood there and as they stepped into the elevator. They turned around, and I think all three of them

I mean, you never make the.

Nightmares go away, but that person, you can't hurt me, So I thought it was kind of a big moment for me.

Inside the courtroom, defense attorney Steve Saydau spent hours grilling doctor Joe Burton. Still, no matter what the defense tried, he was steadfast.

I've never been certain about certain about a lot of things. I do forensically, very few things, as a matter of fact, But I'm as close to one hundred percent certain as they could be that these fractures in this child, as I see them, could not have occurred from falling out of a bed onto a carpeted floor.

The star witness for the defense was doctor Robert Stivers. His absence from the first and second trials was the reason for the third trial, and his appearance was not without controversy. It was noted that he wasn't licensed at the time of the trial. Nevertheless, he was accepted as an expert witness by the court, and in his opinion, Matthew's injuries had been the result of an accident. Tensions

He went downstairs, you know, to leave the building for line, and there were a few people in my family who, you know, sort of gave him their two cents on what he had said. And he came back to the court room after lunch and told the judge and had us all kicked out, so nobody was allowed in the quirt room.

The Kathy admitted to the judge she told doctor Stivers, by God, you'll pay for what you've done. But now Tracy Riquel couldn't be in the courtroom. She actually didn't have to worry. Doctor Stivers was a witness, but not a star. It wasn't smooth testimony, and it certainly didn't rival the expert testimony of doctor Burton.

The medical examiner's testimony was simply devastating, and we could not overcome it. We didn't have an expert to do so, couldn't find an expert to do so.

Jan Berry Sandlin received a new trial, but was left with the same outcome, guilty. He was convicted a second time by a new jury.

We could not find someone who would come in and testify that the injuries were consistent with falling out of a crew. The problem is finding an expert who's willing to get on the witness stand and testify that under these horrible circumstances this is a reasonable possibility and then have to live with that as an expert. From that point on.

It also makes me wonder, why wouldn't anybody say that, is it possible he couldn't have died from flying.

Out of the crypt?

Is certainly the state's position, and what the jury must have ultimately believed is that they proved beyond a reasonable doubt that it could not have happened the way Jan Sandlin had previously said it did.

District Attorney J.

Tom Morgan, this case was not won or lost by the attorneys, Mister sada Al, it's a great trial lawyer. The jury looked at the evidence, and the evidence is what convicted Jan Berry Sutlin.

It was over. It was really over. In courtroom footage, you can see Tracy Roquel seated near Cathy for the verdict. After it was read, her head disappeared into her lap. Cathy tried to comfort her and for a moment they shared an embrace. But then you see Tracy Raquel slide down the bench. It was like she suddenly remembered something she couldn't trust that hug and the courtroom started to empty out and in the footage you can also see that jan Berry Sandlin had lost the swagger of the

Jan was abusive to her when they were in the apartment when it was just her and him. And I only know that because that's what she'd say. She said, No, I can't. Jan wouldn't be tail out of me. What way he'd hit her, I don't know. There was a couple of times she had bruises on her face.

According to Jackie, the night Nancy killed herself, she was meeting with Jan to try and work out their differences.

Nancy just thought that because she'd had Jaybird, she was supposed to make it work.

J Bird was Jay Salmon. Nancy and Jan's son.

Jaybird is what his mommy called hi, but it's what I'm called him since the day was born.

Jackie Wilson was supposed to meet Nancy the morning after she died.

I went over to pick her up to go and found out she wasn't here anymore.

Jackie was pretty straightforward about her feelings about Jan.

The reality was I wasn't there, so all I could do was say, I don't want them around, and I don't wanting around Jaybird either, And mister miss Tagatter told me that they did not want Jay to dislike or his father.

In the conversation Tracy Raquel taped with Kathy, the topic of Jan's first wife, Nancy, had surfaced. You heard this in episode three, and the District Attorney's office also became aware of the conversation when it happened.

But you don't think he was responsible for killing her?

Yes?

I do.

Do you mean you actually think he pulled the trigger.

I don't know if he actually pulled the trigger or if he talked her into pulling the trigger, but I think either way he's responsible. Jan Sandlin, in my book, either killed her himself or.

Cost to happen.

Just in my life, he was the last person that actually saw her.

Medical examiner doctor Joe Burton, was interested in investigating the case. There was some suspicion aspects to her suicide. A sheet was wrapped around her after she died. She had shot herself in the abdomen. Investigator Jim Maybe found that very odd.

Well, someone wants to commit suicide, they want no pain involved. To shoot yourself in the abdomen. You might not die, you might just sit there and suffer. That bothered me my experience as a forensic death destigator. Of all the cases that I've worked, which is over five thousand cases, I've never had a woman sheet herself in the abdomen, especially pregnant.

And the suicide note didn't ring true.

The suicide note was inconsistent, lots of misspellings, according to her family, not consistent with who she was.

While doctor Burton and Decab County were prepared to take another look at Nancy's death, they ran into a wall. Tercy Riquel explains.

Nancy Taggert's family absolutely had an opportunity to reopen that case after Matthew's case and her son my half brother. He really wanted that and the family absolutely did not want that. They didn't want to talk about it, and because he loved them and was so close to them, he just shut it down.

The thought of recreating the crime scene and possibly exhuming her body it was just too much for her parents. People grieve in different ways, but Jan did not appear to mourn the loss of his first wife, Nancy.

He literally moved in with Kathy and Matthew and I Right after that.

Jan and Nancy's son Jay, respected his grandparents' wishes. They were more like his parents. They had raised him. He loved them. Now that they have passed, he would be open to someone looking into his mother's death again. But the team that was willing to do that twenty five years ago is long go. But Tracy Raquel has not forgotten. Let me talk to you about William David Corn. Okay, William David Korn was a police officer who was shot to death. His case was never solved, you wrote on

My life growing up as a child, Kathy. You know, there's very specific things that she has said, and that's her.

Story, like it's never changed.

Kathy always said that Jan was responsible for Nancy's death because he came home to her that night.

So I knew about Nancy Tageer like very very young.

And then the other thing that Kathy would always say is yeah, he also killed that police officer.

You may remember, I went to speak with Kathy Ahman to see what she had to say.

I really can't get drawn into Tracy's fantasies anymore.

She has been lying in torturing me for thirty years.

I can't take it anymore.

What do you mean, Kathy? What is she lying about.

Everything that police Officer William David Korn was only twenty four years old when he was shot through the heart while moonlighting at an apartment complex as a security guard in the evening. The Decab police chief thought he had surprised some burglars in the clubhouse, but nothing was taken.

Officer Corn was shot multiple times with his own handgun.

Investigator Jim Maybe was also interested in the case.

Before I came to the medical Examiner's office, I'd been assigned a cold case file where a police officer had been killed about the time that her baby brother had been killed. And one of the people that I came across who became a person of interest in that police officer death was being salein.

Although he died from a shot to the heart, the killer shot him in the head after he was already dead. Nobody really knows what the connection was between Jan Barry Sandlin and William David Korn, but for Jim Maybe.

Jim Maybe was very certain that Jan was a suspect. In fact, he was assigned to that case.

Me and my partner, you know, we started looking into it.

Jim Maybe and I have talked about it over the years.

He would warn me into the late nineties, into the early two thousands, that this was too dangerous of a subject to get into because it suspected that it had to do with Dixie Mafia, because Jan was part of that organization.

I didn't even know who the Dixie Mafia was.

Tracy Riquel's first husband had a relative in law enforcement, and he gave her some information.

His uncle was FBI and had done some looking into Jan. He worked for the FBI for thirty years in organized crime, so you knew all about how they worked and functioned.

Tracy Riquel learned that the Dixie Mafia was an organized crime group engaged in a laundry list of crimes including illegal gambling, drug trafficking, prostitution, robbery, murder, arson, extortion, and fraud. Their preferred method of murder was shooting, and sometimes local police and politicians were mixed up in their ranks. Jim Mape was set on questioning Jan Berry Sandlin about Officer Korn's murder. Sandlan was already serving time in Florida for the armed robbery conviction.

We wanted to go to Florida and talk to him, but we got it all together. Came in the next morning, told Colonel what are Florida? He said, no, you're not. Huh. He says, no, you're not. Why didn't he make sense? We waited around, waited around. Captain never came and asked us why we were going to first place? So you could take it from there.

Hundreds of police officers lined the streets for Officer Korn's funeral. Governor Jimmy Carter donated state money for a reward leading to information that would lead to the killer. Tracy Raquel grew up feeling there were two people in her household who knew what happened to Officer Korn. Kathy openly spoke of the incident.

She would say, he killed that police officer and then we drove to Alabama and through the gun in a lake.

Jan is still alive, still in prison, still aware. Since the podcast started, Tracy Riquel has received a threat.

The threat that I received was basically, if anything happens to Jan, We're gonna set you on fire, watch you burn.

What could Jan be worried about? Maybe knowing what Tracy Riquel did for Matthew has made him realize she never gives up and he may be held to account again. On the next Burden of Guilt, I sit down with Tracy Raquel, and we share some stories that are jaw dropping, some things that we haven't talked about before.

I remember Leanne and just calling me and saying, you're not going to believe this.

They got married, ladies and gentle when I present to you, mister and missus Jane sadly.

That's next time on Burden of Guilt. Stay tuned for Burden of Guilt at documentary coming in twenty twenty four and airing only on Paramount Plus. If you would like to reach out to the Burden of Guilt team, email us at Burden of guiltpod at gmail dot com. That's Burden of Guilt pod at gmail dot com. If you or someone you know is worried about maltreatment or suspect that a child is being abused or neglected, call the Child Help National Child Abuse Hotline. You can call or