Hi, It's Nancy Glass. I hope you've been able to watch Burden of Guilt, the docu series on Paramount Plus. That's where you can see the actual footage from the trial. You can meet the investigators, and of course you'll see Tracy Riquel Burns, the hero, the warrior in this story. And now that it's on the air, I wanted to talk with her again. Tracy Riquel, this is our first
conversation since the documentary premiered on Paramount Plus. So what's life been like for you since the TV series launched?
That is a tough one. A life has been well, overwhelming, It's been overwhelming. I didn't expect to feel so exposed. I think prior to all of this, if if you had googled my name, nothing would have ever come up. You would have never seen a picture. And that's very much how I how I liked my life to be. I felt very safe and comfortable. And it's absolutely not that that way now. And I knew that was going to be that way, and I and I you know,
I understood the risk for that. And there are purposes for doing this, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. But yes, it's been it's been overwhelming to me, and you know, I've had sleepless nights and all of that is just trauma from my childhood, and you know, feeling vulnerable and afraid, I wanted to, you know, crawl into the corner of my closet and not come out, to be honest, but it's irrational and you have to talk yourself through it, and I have.
Well, here's the thing, Tracy Ruquel. I don't think there's there's anything wrong with that. I think that's a natural reaction. But I do wonder do you regret having made the documentary and the podcast.
No, I mean.
No, I do not regret doing it. I have moments where you know, you wish you could have your cake and eat it too. But if that makes some sort of sense.
Yeah, you wish you could tell your story and then disappear into the ether.
Yeah, I could have my total safe feeling and be totally anonymous. And it doesn't work that way, and I get that. So no, I have no regrets. But yeah, it's what stepping into the fire is all about.
So let me ask you about jan Berry Salmon, the murderer, the man who killed your baby brother and the man who is your father.
Well, we don't know that for sure.
We don't know for sure. You're absolutely right.
Yeah, I don't know who is my biological father, and.
You're hoping it's not Jan Barry Sanmlin.
Yes, at this point, that's just not even something I think about.
But you saw him on the documentary. How did he look to you?
He looks like an elderly man that's been in prison for a very very long time.
You know. He looks like he's been through a lot, and he looks rough.
How many years has it been since you've seen Jan's face?
I have seen Jan's face twice a month every year since the trials. Why because I go on Florida Department of Corrections twice a month to make sure he's still in prison. And I heard Leanne Mangon on the docuseries, and she was one of the prosecutors say that he is one of the only people that she's ever put in prison that she goes on Google to check and see that he's still in prison. And it shocked me when I heard it, and I was like, yes, that's
what I do. I go and make sure he is still sitting where he is and so, yes, it wasn't shocking to me to see his face because I see it all the time and they update that picture every Sunday. So if he were to ever break out of prison or they let him out of prison, I know exactly what he looks like and I know exactly where he is. And maybe some people would say that's unhealthy, or maybe it's healthy, it's beneficial to me.
Yeah, you're doing.
What you need to protect yourself apparently. So yes, have you heard from Kathy, your mother since this came out?
No?
And you haven't heard from Sheila, her sister.
No.
Okay, I want to shift to Ted Golder. He was married to your mother and you thought he might have been your father. He was definitely your baby brother, Matthew's biological father, and you talked about him at length in the podcast. Well, as you know, we received an email from his sister. Can I read part of that email to you and talk with you about your feelings?
Okay?
All right?
So she says, I'm the sister of Ted Golder. My brother passed away in two thousand and six of als and since he has no voice to speak his side of the story, I'll speak for him. My mother told him to stay away from Kathy. That's your mother. She was not the girl for him. But my brother had no intention of listening to my mother, and so it began. He was in love with her. She could do no wrong in his eyes. She was a majorrete in high school,
very popular. He was proud of her. He was aware of her relationship with Jan Sanlin, but blind to the fact of how deeply she was involved with him and would never break that tie. And as she stated at the trial, Kathy said, I loved Jan since I was twelve years old and that never wavered. So now, in nineteen sixty eight, Ted gets drafted and he had to go to Vietnam and during his tour of duty, that's when Kathy, who was his wife at the time, wrote
him a Dear John letter. Dear John, is goodbye, It's over. She still has that letter. His sister still has that letter. So he wrote to his mother and told her about the letter, and he said he threw his wedding ring into the Sigone River. He said, mother, you're right. And Kathy said to him in the letter that her baby was Jan Sandlan's baby, and he was getting divorced from her. And then you fast forward to the summer of nineteen seventy. Ted returns home and he's back with Kathy. Tracy's just
a baby. My mother and father accepted it and even had Kathy, Ted and Tracy up on the lake in their boat. So everything seemed to be going fine. Ted and Kathy got apartment, and Kathy was pregnant, and I would visit them in their apartment. I even suggested to Cathy to name the baby Matthew, and everything seemed to be fine. Then Ted called his sister to say he came home from work and Cathy had moved out. She was maybe seven months pregnant. No reason, just left. Ted
had to regroup. He quit his job in Alabama, he moved back to Atlanta. He was never able to see his son, Matthew born, or even know where Kathy had gone. He had no way of finding her yet. Then he came back to Atlanta, was notified that the baby was dead, and the first time he saw his son was at a funeral home. And then the night he came home from the funeral, he put his fists through our parents' door.
He was so distraught. And then years later my brother told me about a paternity test, and how he was to be, you know, talking to you, Tracy, and he was excited. This is now. He was excited to maybe be having grandchildren. He told me they could come over, jump all over his furniture, he wouldn't care. But the test came back and you weren't his daughter, and he was very, very disappointed. Even though everybody knew all along
the truth, he was still hoping for a miracle. The letter also says that she and her sister were at the trial every day in the back row, and after the trial, they're interviewing Kathy, your mother outside the courthouse. She was never charged with anything, but Ted's sister came up to Kathy and told her she was just as guilty as Jan and she needed to be in jail. So, if I were to sum up that letter, here's the gist of it. So Ted and Kathy get married. Ted
goes off to Vietnam. He gets a letter from Kathy, A dear John letter said saying, I don't love you. The baby isn't yours. I want a divorce. He's broken hearted. He gets home, but then everything seems to be fine again. They're living together, they're happy. He comes home one day and Kathy's moved out. He doesn't know what's happened, he doesn't know where she's gone. He moves to Atlanta to go and find her, and the only thing he knows
about this baby is that the baby has died. So, Tercy Riquel, what do you think of that letter?
Most of what she said in the letter is the same information that Ted had said to me when I was speaking to him in the early to mid nineties. There was a period of time that I had communicated with Ted Golder. We had gotten in touch. He wanted to do a paternity test, and we talked for about six weeks, and during that six weeks he had told me pretty much what she states in this letter.
You spoke to Ted Golder's sister on the phone. What did she say to you?
You know, she told me about her brother and you know him in high school, and how handsome and sweet he was, and you know how much she loved him, and that he, you know, would have been a good father, and the relationship with Kathy, and you know the things that they saw that went wrong with Kathy, and obviously Kathy's draw to Jam.
Well, Kathy cheated on Ted golder with Jam and even when she was married to Ted, she cheated on him with Jam. Yes, I can't even imagine the emotions of talking to this woman who at one point was your aunt. What else did she tell you?
Okay, so a couple of things that she told me in the conversation that we had was one she said, you know, I saw your mother, Kathy and the newspaper once. And I thought she was referencing the trials that she saw Kathy maybe in the newspaper during the trials, And I said really, and she said, yeah, she had two broken legs and a broken arm, so she was almost
in a body cast. And it occurred to me like I remembered two broken arms, two broken legs, right, And I was like, oh, yeah, that was a suicide attempt. And she said, oh, I didn't know that because in the paper they didn't say that.
Yes, that's a story that you told both on the podcast and in the documentary of Kathy putting you in a seat on the balcony and then jumping off in front of you and not dying, but breaking both arms and both legs.
She sat me on, just sat me on the porch and then jumped off, and my memory was that she broke both arms and both legs, but it was both legs and an arm, and I thought that was really ironic that there's this picture out there in nineteen seventy two of her in this cast you know of this event that you know this directly relinked to this memory
that I have. Another thing that she told me was my younger brother, Jason, was actually in kindergarten or the first grade, I can't remember which with one of her boys, and she said, Jason came to school one day and said, my father is in prison and he killed my little brother, and when he gets out, I'm going to kill him. Now, the relevance of this is is that that would have made Jason about seven, so I would have been around twelve.
Now that's when Kathy started, like openly she had been around eleven or twelve, openly telling me Jan did it?
Jane killed him? Jan is that whatever? You know? It was just this confirmation to me.
I guess I would have thought, then, why didn't Kathy go to the authorities or even pam Ted Goulder's sister who you spoke to. Did she consider going to the authorities, because after all, it was her nephew.
I think that everybody thought that there was something wrong with a whole lot of things in that county and surrounding counties. Not to be cryptic, but I think that there was a whole lot of homicides and crimes that were suspicious. And I think a lot of people thought there were a lot of things that were wrong and mishandled.
And that is in connection with jan Sandlin. Even in Pam's letters, she says, I think he killed his first wife, Nancy Tegetter. That was the case where it was determined to be a suicide, except that how did Nancy Tagatter wrap herself up in sheets after she shot herself? And why would a pregnant woman commit suicide by shooting herself in the stomach. It made no sense whatsoever. And also William David Corn, that's another case that Jane has been
associated with. William David Korn was a police officer, and the latest thing that we found in our research was that it's possible that William David Korn was having an affair with Nancy Tagatter and that's why they both ended up dead.
Well.
I recently was told that Nancy was dating a police officer, but the name was never said, so I don't know who who the police officer was, but that she was dating a police officer, but that person had no idea who the police officer was.
So well, the police always had their suspicions about Jan's involvement in these two deaths. Did you ever hear stories about that while you were growing up?
So as a child, over and over again, I had heard that Jan killed Nancy. He came to her afterwards that he killed a police officer, and they drove to Alabama and threw the gun in a lake. And that's what drove me to, you know, to Cab County for the first time, to pull that incident report. No, actually to pull a police report. And all there was was an incident report. Now I was very young and didn't understand, but I understood enough to say, this is all there is.
Like it didn't make any sense to me. So when I, you know, first got Jim maybe on the phone and talked to him. He was my angel, he was my savior. He's the very first person who said I will get this done. He said, send me a letter, and then I sent him a letter outlining all of that didn't know who the police officer was at that time, but that exact phrase that she said over and over, that's
what I sent him. And the thing was, he knew all of that, and he knew Jan Sandlin, and he says that's why he took that case and it.
Was so helpful.
Right.
He suspected Jan Sandlin from day one. Tracy Raquel, We've received quite a few questions about this story, and one in particular involves you changing your name from Tracy to Tracy Riquel. Do you want to address that.
Yes, So let's just back up a little bit. And this is very complicated, but we'll back up. When I started school first grade, my name is Tracy Sandlin, and I went through school as Tracy Sandlin because that's who Cathy was with even when she wasn't with him. Now, at twelve or thirteen years old, I needed a birth certificate for something and social Security card and she hesitated, like you wouldn't believe, beat around the bush for weeks
till it finally was unavoidable. And the reason was because on my birth certificate she was married to Ted Golder when I was born, and on my birth certificate my name was Golder. So I've got eight years of school records that are not legal. Had to go to a judge and the judge asked me, what name do you want? So I went to the name that was on my birth certificate, Golder, not to mention it was match same and that makes sense, and I didn't want anything to
do with jam changed everything. So now legally my name is Tracy Raquel Golder. Now we fast forward to I'm in my twenties speaking to Ted Golder and he wants to do this paternity test.
He called on the.
Phone and he said, well the results came back, then you're not my daughter. And he said, you're a very nice woman. You're lovely. I wish you all the best, but I can't have anything to do with you, and I would like it if you no longer use my name.
So I didn't when it was necessary. Raquel became my last name.
And then when I got married, my first name became Tracy Rikel. And it was very important to me that my first name be Tracey Raquel because it's all I have. And so that's why it is so important to me. That's my name and it's all I have. Now it wasn't so upset to setting to me that I wasn't
his daughter. It hurt my feelings that he said I don't want anything to do with you, you know, But what was really upsetting to me was that this and I understand, you know that it's a piece of symbolism, What was really upsetting to me was that it, you know, he sort of verbally took this connection that I had
to Matthew a way. And you know what, when I spoke with his sister, I told her because I said, you know, i'm gonna explain this on the podcast because a lot of people have asked why you know the name? And I said, you know, I don't want to hurt your feeling, but and I'm sorry, I'm going to tell she said. After I told her, she said, you know what, it sounds like something he would have done. And I said, I don't know if he just had a knee jerk
reaction or if he was just mad or whatever. And she said, you know, I'm.
Sorry, it sounds like a very nice person.
Yeah, And I you know, and I never spoke to him again, but I am the kind of person that if you asked me not to do something I'm not going to ever do.
It tracea raquel. It took me a couple of years to get you to agree to tell your story. You didn't want the attention, but you did have a motive for finally participating in the docu series. You want to share that with.
Us, so I wrote some notes down.
Of course, by all means, I know this isn't easy, So tell us what made you decide you needed to do this.
Matthew is a part of me, and it's important that I show my love for him. I believe that his remains laid in his little casket waiting for me, and I thank him.
So much for that.
I did this also because I wanted to bring awareness to the spectrum of child abuse that happens in homes, both seen and unseen. But there's something else. I don't believe the full extent of justice has been served. I've always felt an obligation deeply to the family of the other victims of Jan, in part because of the information
that was told to me over and over as a child. Also, other families have experienced profound loss because of Jan. I don't want to be cryptic, but if you follow this story closely, it will become clear that the same system in nineteen seventy through seventy two that classified Matthew's death as an accident has failed to properly address other acts
of violence that deserve attention. My hope is that people will start having conversations about this, and I truly believe that they have and I've seen that they are.
Well, that was beautifully said before we wrap up. I know there's something else you want to clear up.
You know what y'all might think this is silly. In the docu series, I did say I didn't do anything wrong, and that's not true. I did violate seaquestration, even if it was walking by and pausing for thirty seconds and seeing her. I violated seaquestration and I knew that at the time, you know, I mean I might not have stopped and watched the program and recorded it and did all this stuff. But I want to say, yes, I know I did that. Can we say that in the podcast?
Can I say I did I violated seaquestration? Do you think it matters or do you think anyone cares?
Or well?
I think if you care, then that's what matters. I mean, that's always been our attitude towards the story. If it means something to you, it means something to us.
And then what you don't know is that there were two more trials, right and every time I got on the stand, the judge turned to the jury and told them basically that I was dishonest because I had violated sequestration.
And what everybody fails to realize is that then I had to leave the court room with this massive amount of press and the news everywhere going that girl who brought the case it failed it and brought it like you know, and it was all over the news about how I, you know what, I failed it, how I blew it up, and you know, I mean it was mass humiliation, like it was just horrifying, you know, And
then what do you have to do? You have to I'm begging them to bring the case back, and then you got to swallow your pride two months later just go back in there and do it again.
So I'm just going to say what I've said to you one hundred times, thank you, thank you, thank you for sharing your story and for beeting you.
I mean, you know, I have clearly have made a lot of mistakes along the way, embarrassing as it is, but yeah, well
We could argue about that forever, and you can stream the entire three part Burden of Guilt docuseries right now on Paramount Plus