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Welcome to Bullyball, presented by DraftKings. I'm Rachel Nichols. As always, that's DeMarcus Cousins, and we have a special guest book. Your friend, my friend, everybody's friend. Two time NBA champ Rejean Rondo. Thank you for being here, a new addition to our little family here, so you were going to see him more as we go along, which is good news for everyone. We're just talking off the air, guys. Super Bowl last night pretty crazy at the end, but you had faith in Kansas City the whole time.
You weren't sweating that at all. For Jean.
Was time left on the clock. I felt my home was going to get it done. That's a great thing. When he has more than two minutes, I mean, it's.
You can get ugly.
But where were you?
H I'm a little disappointed. On paper.
On paper, I felt like the Niners were a better team.
But in my.
Gut and just seeing everything leading up to the Super Bowl, I.
Was like, I gotta feeling the Chiefs are gonna pull this out. You know.
I was able to experience the game on the first hand, so just seeing it in action, see how everything played out, it was.
It was unreal.
But I got a.
Yes, I did, I had to, but I definitely have I gotta agree with Doe on the point. If Mahomes has the ball in his hands with time, if it's it's a great chance he's gonna make something shake. And that's exactly how it happened. So super dope game, and you know, congrat.
The casey Okay.
I want to know how the stadium felt like in that overtime because I was so tense in my living room watching it.
Man, it was so much energy in the build and you could hear pin drop at times and then other times you couldn't even hear yourself think. So definitely a roller coaster of emotions in there, a lot of energy. The fans were engaged from start to family shut out the Usher for killing the halftime show. I thought that was amazing, But overall it was an amazing event, you know, you know, and those last moments at that final drive,
it was like I said it was. It was insane and fans were going crazy and they went out in my home fashion.
Yeah, mano, he is so good. He is twenty eight years old. I just want to remind everyone of that. He said, we have a lot more to go. I think he may be right, so we'll see what happens there.
That was sick. Though both defenses played so well too. That was always fun to see also, but.
It was also a is the weekend in the NBA, gentlemen, I want to move on to some smoke we saw over the weekend with Warriors and sons.
You know, the petty is my favorite.
We saw Draymon continue his beef with Usef Nurkic. This was started by NRK last night. Though I gotta say he hits this hook shot.
He gives the too.
Small gesture, which old Petty right, considering he's got six inches on Draymon. Then if you go over A couple minutes later, Draymond returned the favor does the same thing.
And later this was his quote.
He said, you probably outweigh me by seventy pounds and you get put in the rim. You can't be doing You can't be a nothing defender and go do something like that. So that's what he said. Nurgis chimes in, he said, quote, it's sad that Draymond didn't learn anything. Remember, of course, it was an incident between the two of them that got Draymond suspended this most recent time. Nurkic added, he's going to hit someone again. Take back everything I said.
He didn't learn anything to us. Draymond responded, quote, I thought I was great tonight. He tried to get in my head and it didn't work. He said he can keep rocking with that same horse he rode in on. He can ride his ass right out of here on that same horse. It's not working. And Steph Curry also getting in on the action, calling Nurkic quote idiotic. He also happened to hit that amazing three to win the game at the end. There, So, guys, there is a long back and forth, but you know it was a
long back and forth between them. What do you guys think of playoff series between these teams? Would be like, bug, can you picture it?
For us?
It's a playoff series. I would definitely want to watch. I think this is exactly what we're kind of missing in basketball. You want to bring out that competitive fire, you want to see guys competing at a high level. Just throw a little animosity and so called beef in the mix, and I think you get the results you're looking for. I think it's great for the game. Who doesn't you know, who doesn't love a little rivalry between teams. And I can see this one growing between these two teams.
Obviously it's a lot of history between the two with you know, the likes of Kevinder and being a former Warrior, but you know, it's one I would definitely want to watch. And uh, just to speak on the basketball part of it. One you can't, on one hand, want to be a part of the nonsense and part of the circus and you know, kind of nick pig and you know, act like you're one of those guys, and then once you kind of get out of play, then you run to the principal's office and.
Well he's not the same and he'll never change.
That's that's why, right, right, right, right right. I think that's goofy shit. And you know, Nerd carries itself like he's this big, tough, you know, big time defender, big man. Whatever you want to say, like it's not adding up. Brother, you don't either be the tough guy and take your licks when they come, or just be quiet and play basketball. Uh sounds like he barked up the wrong tree and you know he got the short end of the stick and leave it the result.
I just had to put my two cents in on that part.
You put a whole lot of sense from that. Make it all the sense though. I mean everything you said, I could rebuttal the same thing. I feel the same way about the game. If you can't go to the press and try to talk about his character versus you know, you're playing the game on the court, so you know, if you're gonna check ball, let's do it. And as far as the rivalry with the history, as you said again, you know Katie coming from the Warriors, not only Draymond
and Nurgers. I think obviously you see Draymond and Katie, So that's interesting. That's gon'll be a fun matchup to watch those guys. I would love to probably go live in person actually see one of those rounds. My old coach Frank Vogel holding it down. But like I said, they got a great matchup. You know, a dynasty and you're trying to, you know, assemble the dynasty, which is the Sun. So I think I'll be I'll be, like I said, I want to be course out for that.
Yeah.
I mean, look, I actually really like Nurk and I think he's been really good for that Phoenix team. But you cannot you guys are one hundred percent right. Can't get into it. He started it. You can't start it and then complain that the other guy finishes it.
So I don't know.
I'm Draymond by the way, nobody wants him to be like a quiet, you know, like say nothing, do nothing guy on the court. That was not the goal of these suspensions. The goal is that he needs to stay on the court for the Warriors. Doing stuff like this, he will stay on the court. That is all anybody wants from him on that team. So I got no problem with anything that he did last night. I got to agree with Steph on that one. And the Warriors, by the way, guys, they have won four straight, six
of their last seven overall. Now they just got back into the play and they just got back up into that tenth spot.
But you look at the standings here, do you think the Warriors if they.
Continue like this could actually get into that top six in the West.
I think.
So one thing you're gonna have all always give them credit for this is the Golden State warris They do have a top five all time.
Player in Steph Curry.
You can never count these guys and all the tastes them getting hot, and this is a team that's more than capable of doing that. Once they are rolling. They're one of the toughest teams to beat in the league. It's just been a down year for them, and that's just the facts behind the matter. Like I said, you can never count them out. If they do get rolling, they're one of the most dangerous teams in the league.
Yeah, no team one through four want to match up with the Warriors.
I mean, I'm sure they don't say they would, but you know, the shot they hit the other night against Phoenix is like, that's those type of players and make a break a playoffs series.
So, you know, kudos to the Warriors right now. They're playing.
Like I said, all the negativity they've had out of trade rumors to make the moves.
They're still tall and you know, like I said, I want to see what they do in the playoffs.
Yeah, I know it's been hard for Clay these past few weeks and not playing at the end of games, and we saw him give a really emotional interview. But the move is working, right, It is working to have coming out on the floor when he is. Wiggins has been playing better, obviously, Steph is Steph. I mean, Dre
has been incredible since he got back. If you look at the numbers of him, how the team has done since he's gotten back, and sort of his plus minus and everything like that, there's just no argument that that team needs him. All the people who are talking during his suspension of like, oh, they should trade him and they should get rid of him whatever, there is no way as long as Steph Curry is on that team, he is not going to want Draymond on the floor
because he makes stuff so much better. He makes the whole thing move like you did though. I mean, he really just sort of is that presence on the floor that activates everybody else. So I don't know, I'm excited
for them to see what happens. They said at the deadline, the reason they didn't make a move is that the best move they could have made is internally getting better that they felt like they had a lot left sort of room there to improve, and so it wouldn't be any point in trading their guys away low They could just improve internally, and I think they've done it, so I don't know, hats off to them. We'll have to
see where they go. There's you know, other teams there in that bottom seven, eight, nine, ten in the standings that also want to move up, but some of them may move themselves. I want to look at the buy up pickups. Oh, go ahead, Joe, Oh.
I wanted to say one thing about you saying that they can improve. I think, yeah, I think this is a matter of them buying in as a team.
Interesting.
You know, if they knew un to stay understood, Okay, they probably watch a film the scene where they can get better at or if guys made certain sacrifices like okay, well we can get better if we do these things. And once I feel like those guys bought in or are buying in as we speak now. I think that's why they stood telling what they didn't make any moves.
I get that. I can feel that for sure.
And look, there was a point earlier in the season where it felt like you know, Steve didn't know exactly who.
To put out on the floor at what time.
And I assume as players, you can feel that you can sort of say, well, do we have a plan here?
What's going on?
And I think Steve was just trying to frankly balance the clay issue, knowing how he's sensitive and he's such an important part of that locker room. But once he made a decision there, it seems like to your point though, that like they they're all buying into it now.
And also just quickly again just how the same thing happened with.
Ray Allen, Avery Bradley when we changed the lineup with that. Yeah, that took us holl on the team a little bit. And understand how we you know, at first it was a big three and then once Avery came in, right, had got hurt. Avery came in on our defensive rate and it went through the roof. You know, we're the best defensive team and you know in some history. So that was a tough time for us as a team collectively, and you know it took some time to get through it.
So sure, well, well they got better internally, or try to get better internally. We have some teams over the last week that tried to get better externally. Some buy out pickups over the weekend, Spencer Dinwiddie joining the Lakers, Kyle Lowry joining the Sixers. They also said that the Sixers Darl Murray came out and talked and he said that Embeid hopefully quote unquote, we'll be back for the playoffs.
And he said, if we didn't hope that he would be back, we wouldn't have made the moves that we did. So you can tell our mindset about him coming back by the fact that we made trades, you know, that sort of thing. And if they signed Kyle, who do you think of the buyout guys, Spencer or Kyle will have a bigger impact. The Spencer thing is interesting because I mean he was like they just got rid of him. He got you know, he got traded to the Raptors,
and the Raptors were like, great, we release you. Like it's not that he was some coveted guy on the trade market, but he seemed very coveted on the buyout market.
Absolutely, I think I think Spencer, you know, has a bigger impact.
His always going to play. I think he's gonna be bigger than Kyle.
I believe when you talk about Kyle and Tyres MAXI, uh so he's I feel like he's going to be more of a mentor to Tyre's and give a lot of great spot minutes, run the show, command the locker room from a leadership standpoint. You know he's He's an old sixth class guy, one of my favorite guys I played against a long time. And uh like I said, he's gonna be a great He's gonna have a great impact in the locker room. But I think Spencer on the floor have more of impact. You know, with getting
through the rest of the season. Give me Spriyan Brown minutes, be a lot more in the pick and roll, and I feel like you know him coming back home. Shout out to Mike g He's gonna be working with this guy, his strength strength conditioning coach.
He's ready to go. I think he's real. He'll be recharged.
He'll be in the pick and roll with a guy like Anthony Davis, which is the best pick and roll player he's ever been in the pick and roll with. You got a guy like d Low his old time friend played at Brooklyn, so they have that chemist already there. So I'm looking forward to Spenson having a big impact on the Lakers, and I think, uh, he'll get it done.
But what do you think of Kyle at the Sixers.
I think Rondo nailed it. These two guys they're brought in for, you know, two different roles, so to say we have a bigger impact. I think they're both going to impact their teams exactly the way they were brought in to do. Like like Rondo said, Kyle's more of a mentor. Obviously, Tyrese Maxley is coming off his first All Star. That's the guy I've been playing in the
most minutes at that guard spot. Uh, Kyle to be brought in spot minutes to you know, keep things to flow, manage the game while the star gets his rest and you know he comes in and finishes out the game. And also just to be that mentor role. Like Dooe said, you know a lot of things to be new for as talented as Tyrese max he is, a lot of things will be new for him on this role. So what better got to have, you know, got him through these moments than you know, a guy like Kyle Larry.
So I think that was a brilliant move on Philly's path and as far as the Lakers, obviously, Smith is brought in to come in and be a game changer. They signed gave Vincent earlier in the year, kind of expecting him to kind of feel that role. For him, things haven't worked out the way that he wanted it too. He's dealt with health matters and just not really being in this rhythm this season. So you know, Spence is now being brought in to kind of feel that void
that they've been missing this year. He's a bigger guard, something they do need at the guard spot. More size. Spence is about six six. He's a playmaker, scoring type guard, something they also could use. So I can see Spence having a huge role with this team and starting minutes and off and bench minutes. So I think that he's I think he's a player that they can use in a lot of different ways and it's going to benefit them in a positive way.
Yeah, for sure. I mean I couldn't agree more.
I think that your point about him being big is really insightful. They're already a big team, and you need to be a big team to compete with Denver, right, So the idea of Spencer Bron ad out on the floor together. You just present in terms of playing a team like the Nuggets, you're going to be able to match them in that way. I have a question though, though you've been, you know, been on that team, on
that bench, in that locker room with Lebron James. We saw what he did in the week leading up to the trade deadline, the hour glass, him putting on the Knicks towel, coming to Knicks colors when they played New York, tweeting the Statue of Liberty with the crown and all that stuff.
He was clearly well, he.
Was clearly putting pressure on the team to make a move at the trade deadline, and they didn't. And you know, Rob Polenka's sort of line was, you can't buy a house if it's not for sale. But Lebron in the past has been very unhappy with front offices if they didn't do what he wanted. And I don't know whether this was there really wasn't anything for sale. I don't know if this was the Lakers are like, what are you going to do? Leave?
I mean, Lebron is very very.
Settled here in Los Angeles, Like I don't know if anyone thinks he would walk out the door even if he was unhappy. So I don't know if that factored into it, but I wasn't sure whether he would walk away from the trade deadline feeling like, man, you know, I wanted something to happen, it didn't happen, and now I'm in a bad mood, or that he walks away after getting Spencer being like this isn't out forty You.
Think I think he's okay with what he has. You know, it might have expressed his unhappiness or whatever. He was taking the time with his hour glass tweets and stuff like that, but you know that's Brian, and he puts pressure on his teammates at all time high and if you can't take it, you know, he kind of fizes those guys out.
And you know he's a strong amount of man of person.
As we all know, He's very calculated and everything he does, and he's well aware of what's happening within the organization. So I'm sure robbin him had a lot of conversations Rich as well, so they probably knew or was hoping this type of val will come about again. Brian not trying to carry the entire load playing over thirty five plus minutes a game. I think a guy like Spencer Brown a little bit more brilliant, breathing room to see on the bench and kind of keep his composure and
gain his strength and energy back. So he's a dynamic player. You know, you put him in a pick and roll, he can go for forty any give a night. I can see the lineup finishing with Spencer bron Ady in Austin Reeves. So it's like that can be a tough lineup to switch or try to double team the way eighties passing out of the double this year, it's been at night and day since I was since I played with him. So uh again, he's he's exceling each game.
I love the way he's making his reads. And again, if you swing swing the d lo Austin or Spencer, it's like, you know, what do you do? I think those are more of a threat guys, a threat on the floor, and I.
Think Brown will be okay with the end of the day. It would happen.
You know, he's going to press the button and he's gonna whatever cars he had, He's gonna play him and going to play him the best of his ability.
So I'm interested in you saying that he's put pressure on his teammates too. I'm curious in the time you played with him, can you give us an example of when you saw that sort of lebron glare fall on someone.
I mean, he just as he's you know, every teammate, I expect the same thing. You know, you expect greate this from your teammates. You know, you expect you know, professionalism, uh. And the guys are going to make mistakes.
Uh.
And that's part of the game. But at the end of the day, if you're giving it, you're all. That's all you can ask for. But he might go to the media. He's definitely gonna go to you and practice and challenge you. I mean, it's just a matter of you know what greatness. You know, they hold you to expectations, you know. Same thing with Kevin, the same thing with Paul. Obviously they weren't as big of a star at Brownie, but at the same time, first Ballohalla Farmers, and they do hold you accountable.
M Yeah, for sure.
We look at beyond the Lakers, even you know, they got better. I think with Spencer, a bunch of other teams around the league. It wasn't like a fireworks trade deadline, but there were a bunch of teams that made some nice tweaks around the edges boogie.
When you look at the teams between.
The trade deadline on Thursday, the weekend buyout pickups, look at this kind of last week, which team do you think has sort of gotten the most betteriest, the bestest betterist most of the teams over over this last week, Like who kind of made a little bit of a leap here?
There's been two teams. For me, it was the Knicks in Dallas.
I think they I think they made moves to fit exactly what they're looking for to finish out this year and how they want to finish the year out as far as the next. They're dealing with, you know, some injuries right now, but the pieces they complemented their starts with are absolutely like perfect I can it's in my opinion, it's it's.
Long term moves. They were very methodical.
Obviously they weren't always the biggest and prettiest names at the trail deadline, but every move made sense and I think they feeled out their roster perfectly. I'm excited to see this team in the playoffs. I think this would be a huge jump for them this season. And uh, they're just making all the right moves, just moving forward
and looking long term in my opinion. And as far as Dallas, I think filling out the roster with young pieces that kind of match up with lucas timeline was you know, very important.
And on top of that, just adding talent. I think PJ.
Washington is you know, very underrated player in this league at the time.
And uh, he shot.
He shoots the ball at a very very hot clip, something that that's needed around Luca with his playmaking ability and with how much attention he brings on a nightly basis. And you also get a veteran lob threat in Godford. Every every move they made just makes sense and once again it's something that they can look for towards the future. And uh, and not only that, but the president as well. So I think those two teams, you know, made the best moves.
Bog I don't think. I don't think we've ever agreed as much for you. I mean, I would say the Knicks and mav as well, you know, you know, playing against Luca a couple of years ago, in the playoff series. I tough he is to stop and uh, he's been asking for a big, a backup big for the last three years, I believe. And with another dynamic roll up in preshow Rim PJ. Watch and he has a seven two wings man. He's a lot more I played than
Grant Williams. So these guys are gonna be the easies shots they've ever had in basketball since they've been playing the game, you know. I know they played with Lamello, PJ played with La Mellow, but at the same time, he wasn't drawing double teams like Lucas and tripper teams, so.
He wasn't on the courth haf time.
Yeah, and like I said, there's levels to it.
You know, he's you know, he's obviously v one of the MVP candidates this year.
And with the dynamic role that he adam.
To Gafford and being able to go back and forth with Lovely, it's gonna be fun to watch.
You know.
They're they're already a fun team, but you have a guy like they come to the program as well as with PJ Washington exciting to see and along with the Knicks, you know, the Knicks have been rolling. I think they lost the last two, but you know, as of late, I think their last ten games have been really, really would really good.
So the way.
Bruns has been playing, with addition to Bognanovich Bergs, they're gonna play well. Like I said, I think Bob Bobo Boganovich, he was averaging twenty Detroit. He won't average that obviously the Knicks, but he's still at throwing floor. With Bronston being able to get in the paint to this round will be able to getting to paint kick out to a guy like that, He's obviously going.
To stress the floor.
And then, like I say, any given night he can give you twenty to thirty points a game. So both teams did a very good job, and those are my picks.
Yeah, I mean, look, Bugnanovitch is going to be a difference maker for them right at the beginning here because they've got so many other injuries. And then yes, I think he will move to the bench and be be strong for them. I got to stay with the MAVs. I was a little worried about how much they gave up for the guys they brought in. They've been mortgaging their future over and over again for a while now. And you know, it's all to keep Luca. It's all
to keep Luca happy. But I do think that they have to be a little a little concerned about you know, when he does have this contract come up, they're going to have nothing in the cupboard. That being said, if you don't play well now, he won't even get to the point that his contract is going to be up. He's going to ask for a trade before that. So I understand why they made the moves they made. The guys are great for them. I totally agree that they
are definitely going to make a difference. I mean, you guys, when you're with the Clippers, what was it like playing against Luca in that playoff series?
If you look at the numbers, it was crazy. You know, he we threw everything at him. You know, we had the best defenders in the game on him, you know, at all times, as much as possible if we switched one through five. I mean, we thought we threw so many different looks at him, but he was able to dissect and still figure out a way to get his team ws and you know, make a very big impact on the game at a high level.
But you're laughing.
Yeah, man, uh, that's serious. Another six sit well with me. I'm just a firm believer when it comes when it comes to the game. With basketball, it's played on both ends, and the game can be effected on both ends.
And when dealing with star players.
Or guys that are just match up nightmares, it's not always about what defense you throw at him. It's also about making it and have to guard on the other end of the floor.
So, I mean, obviously we talked about we talked about that, but we talked about that. What's wrong with the What I'm saying is you can hide those players you can target, and that's fine.
We did what we did. We did what we did. We tried to match up defensively, didn't make them work. On the other end, we got our ass waxed. So obviously it didn't work. Well.
What I saying, you can try to more than one perspective. Yeah, but again, people have been targeting stuff for years.
This stuff.
They have a dynasty.
We're not talking about stuff.
Okay, I understand, but I'm talking about that targeting don't always work.
Yeah, people targeted stuff, but there's so many other weapons around stuff too.
That's why it worked.
But you still got damn the two non shooters out there. What do you mean like you said that, you said that.
Who are the other two non shooters?
Said that? You and Ramon? I said you and Draymond.
You.
We'll argue later on, we'll get back the play.
As far as just how the game is played, man, I think you have to make these these match these matchup nightmares work on the other end of the floor. And I feel like that's something that's kind of been swayed away from when it comes to the game as of lately, making making a guy work on both ends of the floor. When when your entire night is just where you're only playing one end and it's just offense offense, office,
you have a greater chance of dominating the game. If I'm being pushed and and and and work on the other end of the floor, I can't get the same amount of effort on the office event. And that's just my way of thinking about the game. But uh yeah, like I said, me and dor argue about those points later.
Well, Luk, I didn't say the other night that Kyrie coming back from injury, you know, just put took so much weight off of him. That he'd been so tired at the end of these games. So to your point book, you know, you got to make them work a little bit. But we'll see, it's the NBA in twenty twenty four. No one has to work that hard because the defense can't do it right.
We were agreeing on points and then he just can't help himself.
Man, he's just we were doing, we were doing.
We had the same conversation off of you know, I mean off cameras home. I don't know how we got when the show started. I don't know how we got to say.
Let me see if I can get you guys on or off the same page with this next segment. I think you're going to disagree a little bit. We'll find out. You know, All Star Game is coming up. That brings up a lot of thought about, you know, who is a star, how our guys rated?
And I want to like.
Play a little game here looking at some of the really high level talents in the league and are they being overlooked, are they underrated, are they overrated or are they properly rated? Or as I like to say, are they rated like underrated, overrated or rated? It's like nonchalant can you just be chalant or non plussed?
Can you just be plussed?
These are right there anyway, I don't appreciates my grammar humor. Okay, Donovan Mitchell, let's talk about him. Overrated, underrated, properly rated.
What do you got, boogie?
Underrated?
This guy has been a winner since he's come into the league. I don't think he's ever missed the playoffs a year of his career. He's been a talent since he's walked in. He changed the Utah organization around. He actually made them exciting and people wanted to watch Utah basketball. I don't think that happened since Stockton alone. He's changed his entire Cleveland organization, which we never thought would happened outside of Lebron James. He's managed to find a way
to do that. I believe he's averaging about twenty eight six and six this season. I mean, how this guy isn't in an MVP conversation or one of the main guys being said in the conversation blows my mind. But you know, it's a political league, the best way of putting that. But I mean, he's having an incredible year. He's he has the Cavaliers as an actual threat this season on their top three, top four in the East. He's doing everything he's supposed to do as as a
franchise guy and as a star in this league. Why his seine isn't brighter than the other stars in the league, I don't really know.
Maybe it's the market.
I'm not really sure, but he's definitely an underrated guy in this league. He deserves way more credit than he gets. And he's, like I said, he's been a star since he's stepped foot in this league and he's continuing to be that.
Agree, agreed, We're back on. He'll be back on. The man is averaging twenty nine, six and six, like I said, six three.
Small market, like I said, his right hand guy d Garland, has been going.
He's been out, he's been injured.
Okay, we can't believe the market.
Okay, there has been a big star in Cleveland that got plenty of attention twice now, yeah, but.
The last that's he is the lead though, Rachel. It's a difference. I mean, he is the NBA.
I'm just seeing. Cleveland's not a small market. It's a big city.
It's a very small market. With all due respect, I've played Rachel.
I'm aware amazing.
Fan base, you know, but it's still considered in our game a small market, you know what I mean, Like he needs house. He's always played for small markets, and I think that may be the only reason, you know, I mean, he scored seventy last year. Nobody, you know, it's not like a big deal. He's been doing a
consistent high level for a very long time. And not go back to how he's came into the year Cleveland and bought into the system fifth in very well, and like I said, playing for JB one of my favorite coaches. He's buying right in. And like I said, I hope he stays. But at the end of the day, I mean, I would hope you go to New York and get his respect that he needs.
I mean, that's why I wanted to see him in New York in the first place. I mean, I'm glad it's worked out in Cleveland, but how amazing would that have been in New York? And with Jalen Brunson I'm not saying instead, but with Jalen Brunson.
I mean, I don't know how that might work out.
You know.
I'm happy to where he is now, like I said, this summer will get there and see what it would possibly could be. But right now, I'm happy he's in Cleveland, working with my one of my favorite point guards, Darius Garland, all the young guys in Cleveland. I think he's doing a great job coming in, being a leader, veteran in the locker room, and like I said, keeping everyone points.
I think they're number two, Is that right, Richard? The number two?
And e Yeah, yes, I mean, and I said, nobody talks about Cleveland, so I think it just goes with their entire staff, like it goes with JB being underrated, you know. I mean, I think their whole organization is underrated. Done a hell of a job consistently.
I mean JB's got to be one of the leaders in the clubhouse for Coach of the Year, I think, I mean, I would certainly put him there, And he's just done great work their overall. He's a great guy, he's a great coach. The Cavs overall, they have won. I want to make sure I get this right. Seventeen of their last eighteen games, seventeen of their last eighteen games.
They have been talking about it.
Yeah, they get the number one defense in the league over that stretch. And yes, they have moved into the number two spot. I mean, we're sitting here talking about Milwaukee and Philly and what's going on with the Knicks, but Cleveland is neck right in there. So you know, if they hold on to that, that will be huge going into the playoffs in terms of the matchups they're going to get. I just think, you know, they won't have to face Boston until the end if they get
that far. So I just think that that is a player and a team to watch. And I'm looking forward to don have been getting some shine at the All Star Game because I think he will. I want to ask you about Trey Young. Guys overrated, underrated, or rated.
I also think Trey Young is an ready I feel for this brother. I feel like we've had similar type situations when it comes to just, you know, being in a situation being a franchise cornerstone and not getting the necessary pieces and attention that you need to not only make your individual talent, you know, shine, but put you
in the situations to where you can win. And the reason I feel for it because at the end of the day, when it's all said and done, the legacy that's going to be tarnished, a stray young and details of what goes on behind to never get looked at.
It's gone just always be the overall picture.
And that's Trayon put up numbers, but he couldn't win, and that's just not how it works and a team oriented setting. And I just want this guy to, you know, either get some real talent put around him to where he can be the star that he's meant to be.
But my dream scenario, this.
Guy could find his way to San Antonio to be with when I think those two guys together would be unreal. I think they're a duo that we probably won't see a duo close to Shaq and Kobe, but I think those guys could be that.
And I think he's that talented.
I think I mean twenty eight and ten to average ten assists in the NBA, No.
No, eleven, eleven, don't respect it's eleven.
Excuse me, cents.
Yeah, that's that's.
But to be able to average double digit assists in the league is I mean done can speak on it. That's that's really really hard to do, and this guy just doesn't. And it's easy to you know, overlook him. Like I said, he's in a losing situation, but his talent. You can't overlook the talent no matter and now you try to cover it up, no matter how you try to say. It's just that you can't deny attack, right right, I feel for this. He's definitely underrated.
Definitely definitely underrated. You know, to go about anything you said about this cis I mean it was hardest hell. The average leven assists and I couldn't damn their average twenty eight points. I mean, you had both of those numbers together on.
Top of him. Like I said, night and the night out.
Every team is trying to figure out how to stop trade young and you're doing this at six to one, only five years in the league. I mean, he's already figured the game out, Like I said, a lot of people don't understand how already is a massive amount of the game at that level, at the point guard position. Being that only six to one, you know, every night he's the smallest guy on the floor, still able.
To dominate, manipulate the game.
That's why they changed the game with the free throw rule, because he had manipulated a game within three years of playing in the NBA. I mean, how many guys can go in and change the game completely like that and give you know, the game is different. You know, he
has the ball in his hands a lot. He is the only pretty much primary playmaker and you're going to have numbers, but still to do it at a consistent level night and night out basis, and you know, take and make the biggest shots in the game, usually in the fourth quarter. And that's what he does every night. And he's learning how to become a better teammate. You know, I played with him to try to knock him about being a but he's young.
You know, he's learning.
He had had many vets in to come in and teach him how to be you know, that type of player. Also having that franchise on your back. You know, I can't speak from that perspective, but being able to come in at you know, twenty two years old, have a whole franchise in your back and still want him to do so many other things they produced on the court. You're asking a lot for a young person that you know, it's just now coming into something new. So he's definitely underrated.
One of my favorite players I've ever played with. He's unstoppable, and again, he's so young now. I won't know about him going to San Antonio. I think that will obviously be great in the future, but I want him to win now, you know, I want him to get into respect now. But you never know how it plays out. He's super young. Yeah, so many years to play this game. And wherever he ends up or whoever comes to Atlanta, you know, wish him the best.
Look if he went to San Antonio, I don't think it would be in the future. I think they would be on a winning path right away. Have you seen Wenby's numbers. I mean he is like a legit defensive Player of the Year numbers kind of guy. Obviously they're not winning that would affect an ords actually that he gets. But he has better numbers right now than Rudy Gobaert did in his MVP season. I mean that's defensively what we're talking about. Obviously can do things offensively we've never
seen before. Is going to have more seasoning if Trey Young does end up there. By the time that Young does end up there and then you stick Trey Young on that team, I mean I can't even imagine. And the Spurs have a ton of picks. They could definitely make an offer. I don't know if Atlanta would trade him, but they would make an offer. And I know that Trey, you know, he's been a good soldier there. He didn't ask for a trade at this deadline when people thought
he might. So I want to emphasize that he has been as you said, he's been a better teammate. No one's going to call him Drew Holliday ever, but his defense has gotten better. I mean, he's certainly like making more of an effort now on defense as well. And I don't know what's going to happen this summer if they have the rest of the season goes poorly, Like I don't know, I completely agree with you, Boog that he is being influenced and his reputation is being influenced by the team he plays for.
He's getting left off all NBA teams. You know, the.
Fans are voting him higher and All Star votes than anybody else around the league. And I think that disrespect has a lot to do with this idea. He's an empty numbers guy. He's not gonna be any empty numbers guy if you put him in the right situation.
So I'm curious.
I think that is a huge thing to watch as this next year plays out. When you talk about stars that could move around, He's not a name we talk about a ton But you know, I know Hawks fans are gonna be like, don't trade him off our team.
But you got to talk about it because it is possible. I don't know.
I want to hit you guys with another one that you both know well. Paul George underrated, overrated, properly rated.
I'm gonna have to go underrated with PG as well. He's one of my favorite players in the NBA, one of the most talented guys I've ever seen at six nine, sixteen, the ball heading ability, to shot creation, the creativity off the dribble, the shooting ability. I mean, when you think about the prototypical wing, you think about a Paul George, the size, the link, just every all the intelligibles that come with him and just and then you add the talent to that. I would say he's one of the
most talented three men ever played the game. I put him in the likes of the Tracy mcgrady's and things of that nature.
Zero growing up on.
Any given day, I could say he is more talented than Tracy McGrady.
Obviously you can argue that point, but I think a point could.
Be made that point.
The way he shoots threw out I mean, Paul jew I mean, I don't understand the hate that comes with this guy. He's an incredible teammate, super time. He always shows up when it's time to show up. Obviously, guys have bad games, that's a part of this game. Like why his bad games get highlighted more than his good
games will never make sense. But this is one of the most talented guys that ever lays up his sneakers, and he's definitely underrated, just in the fact that he doesn't get the proper love and credit that he deserves. He's been a winner since he stepped foot in the league. He was challenging Lebrons as a young twenty two year old, Like, like, let's serious here, Like this is one of the most talent that they ever put on sneakers, and I just I think he deserves way more credit than he gets.
I think three for three because underrated, underrated, Yeah, I would say so. Like I said, I loved enjoy playing with PG at the time I was there, you know, watching work, his professionalism, how he is as a teammate.
You know, he's underrated for sure.
I will agree with because I mean I think he you know what, I all do respect him to Trace McGrady. The game has changed the Mrider, but the way PG shoots to three out the dribble. I mean, at six ' nine, you can't really do much about it. You know, he's kind of a bigger Kyrie than me. You know, he can finish, super athletic. Like I said, he pats the ball at ease, and he's like he gets to a spot and goes like I said, and also not on the office.
Avan when he goes on the defense event as well.
And I think he'll get his respect. I do believe the Clippers possibly can win the NBA Championship this year. And I think once he does that, people start to understand, Okay, look at his career, like, wow, he was doing this Indiana, he did just do it this and the Clippers and like I said, well when he was with the Clippers were kui. They never really had any healthy years together. So I think they can stay healthy and put it together.
This year.
He'll he'll start to get the respect that he deserves, and I look forward to it.
He's a great player, great teammate.
It's just I go to a lot of Clippers games because I live here in LA. I'm going tonight. He's so reliable for them this season. I mean, he has been able to win. He's in games. Obviously there's been a few he's missed because of health. But when he's been in games, he just whether Kawai is doing amazing, whether Kawi is having a quieter game. PG has sort of been there with those threes. He's kept them in games and sort of THINKWHI comes and takes over.
I just it's been very cool. Kawhi is another one.
I want to ask you guys about overrated, underrated, properly rated, two time finals MVP.
What do y'all think?
I think this is another guy that's underrated. I think his one championship in Toronto trump's a lot of guys throughout the history of this game to.
Be able to Spurs Springs too.
You know, no, that's fine, but I'm more impressed with the fashion of how it was done. To be able to go in there for one season win a franchise their first championship ever, like to basically take over an entire country like it was, and I was on the other end of that. So I really felt his presence in that in that moment. To be able to do it in the fashion that he did it, I don't I don't think we'll ever really see that in the
game again. Obviously, he's had this saus in San Antonio and it wasn't really credited because he played with so much talent. He was under the umbrother of Popovich, Tim Duncan, all those legends that came through there, So obviously he didn't get as much credit with that group. But that one championship in Toronto, like, I think that just put him on the pedestal of superstar.
Yeah, you played Monno against him in the finals. You had that great finals game, Buggie, and he just kept coming.
Back with answers.
Yeah, he was that boy in that series and he gained my respect in that series just to match up with all and obviously a lot of things win against us in that series as far as health, and if we were healthy, I think it would have been a different situation.
But I can only.
Speak on the facts and how it played out and what he did to contribute to winning that championship. You got to give him all the credit in the world. That's that's a bad boy. So I definitely think he's underrated.
Absolutely, he's he's underrated. He's underrated.
And I only say this because I think over the last couple of years, I think the media has overshadowed him not playing as much and it's trying to kind of tarnish his reputation of how great a player he is. You know, he doesn't speak much or make a big scene about anything. He just goes out and get his job done. So I think that plays a big role in like I said, how people perceive him now and not putting in respect on his name.
Because of the latest the last couple of years. Oh he's the choir.
They put new rules in where guys can't rest. So I think that has overshadowed again what he's done in his career with the championship in Toronto and then the two with San Antonio.
So but at the end of the.
Day, like I said, I'm looking forward to him getting to the finals and then he get it, he gets his fourth you know. Now he's uh, he's still young, you know, pg he's still young, they had a ways to go, and like I said, with that experience as far as the coaching staff over there, to lose one a chip already. So it's like I'm willing to bet with those guys and having that.
That underdog mindset, you know, they don't.
I'm sure they don't mind at all being underrated, both of those guys, and with that chip on your shoulder that you know, that proving them wrong mentality going to the playoffs they're looking forward to. People continue to not believe in them or not even speak on them. So and I'm sure when people start to jump on a bad wag, I'm sure they don't want.
Them, you know.
So it's like they have that mindset being in that locker room understanding that I wouldn't want to match up with him in the playoffs this year.
Yeah, I mean, look, we made a big deal when Lebron won his his ring in a third place right two in Miami, one in Cleveland, and then the fourth one with La Kawhi would be doing the same thing, right And again we're saying if if we don't know if they're going to get to the finals, were don't know if they're gonna win the finals, but if they do, I would be willing to put money on the fact
that Kawhi would be the MVP. So if any of that happens, the idea that he would be finals MVP in three different cities and in different NBA finals is bonkers.
So yeah, I don't know.
I think he may be properly rated just because I do think knows how good he is or PG one hundred percent. I'm just saying that he is a chance, with this team playing so well, to do something so exceptional, And I do think when his career is all over, Kawhi We're going to talk about him even better than we do now. But I do think if you talk to players around the league, everyone knows how good Kawhi Leonard is and the fact that he's been healthy this year.
I think the media has sort of circled back around on him as well. We've talked about him not being really mentioned in the MVP vote. That has more to do with the number of other stars on his teams, and go back and forth on whether that should matter or not. But that's more why as opposed to not respecting him. I don't know, He's incredible I love watching him. He's incredible, and I have to throw in the one that I told our producers is my underrated Jamal Murray is underrated, gentleman.
He's underrated.
And I know, I know, I'm the standard bearer for the Nuggets this year among all of our different group podcasts and shows and stuff, but I'm sorry. They are the defending champions and Jamal Murray is one of the reasons.
I mean, I know it.
Jokic is incredible, but he does not win without Jamal Murray.
I'm sorry.
And the fact that because Jokic is so incredible, we kind of just kind of throw jam all in.
I'm not wrong here, right, I mean, he's.
No, not at all. You're definitely not wrong.
And I had the privilege of, you know, kind of going to the other night against the Lakers Kobe Knight, and he made tough shot after tough shot after tough shot.
At the point guard position. Again, he's another young point guard that we don't talk about to put enough respect on.
How many young point guards I wont Amba Championship the last five years, you know what young pun gress have can't name many, you know, so if any, he might be the only one, but the way he plays the game night and night out.
You know, he has been healthy.
But I think when he came on the scene was win the Bubble when we went to when he went into the Bubble and went crazy and people people were like, Oh, it's just you know, it's just a bubble.
He can't do that.
Like He's been consistent every since and he's a big, big piece of why they want.
You know, he can arguely if he didn't play with.
A guy like Jokots putting up a triple double every night, he can easily argue be the MVP. So having a guy like that on your team, you know, probably go down one of the greatest bigs of all time, can overshadow him and not put the respect on him as a player. But I know, like I said personally in the Bubble, he hit one of the tough shots in my life over me, and he did it on a nightly basis. Like I said, he's just a tough shot maker. He's fun to watch play, he's a great teammate. I'm
sure he's a great leader. I've heard from him from amongst other players, and you know, you can't get to that level if you don't work.
So you know, kudos to him.
He's a great player and he doesn't mind like I'm sure he doesn't mind at all being underrated, but he's getting the expected to deserves. Amongst his fears, the guys that played against him every night.
Well, but you played with him, you were on the team with him.
Is he as good as a work ethic guy and leadership as Joe saying?
Absolutely, he's everything he said.
But I'm gonna have to be the guy that goes against the grain with this one and say that he's properly rated.
The reason I said it is actually one of the reasons Doo just said.
It's the fact that he is under a shadow. It's the fact that he is playing with a big that is one of the greatest ever. You know, lays him up, and I don't think he's able to display his talent the way he potentially could. I think he's the top five PG if the ball is in his hands on a normal basis, like some of he getting the opportunity to these other guards getting the league, the Donovan Mitchell's,
the Jalen Brunt. I think you didn't see him and it's like, man, this guy is a top five PG, but the fact that he does have to play on the shadow of Jokic, the fact that he's not in a traditional point guard setting to where the ball is being brought up by Jokic more so than it is Jamal, So it kind of hinders in my opinion, it kind of hinders his talent. But obviously it's a perfect fit in how they play off with one another, but just him being under that shadow of Yokic. And I hate
saying this because this is my UK brother. I got a number love and.
I can't be it sounds like you're saying that he's underrated.
That's what it sounds in a way I am, and I'm this is based off production with me, the way he produces with this team.
Still, I say he's properly rated. He's very fishy. He's like twenty seven seven, twenty six and six.
I mean, I get what you're saying.
You're saying that he is playing with Yokich, so you kind of have to judge him on that as opposed to what he could be.
I get that. I still think he's underrated.
I don't think people realize how important he is to that team. And I think if they do go on and win again, he will be another huge part of it.
But we can we can see, we can see how it plays out.
I don't know, guys, I want to talk to you about All Star. I mentioned it coming up at the end of this week. You guys have both been named All Star four times each. A lot of heavy hitters on this podcast today. I just want to know what the feeling was like the first time, the first time you heard that you were an All Star.
Where were you we watching it on TV? What did you think? How did you feel? I don't know what about you, bug?
My first one came. I was a replacement. I was actually a replacement for you know, being Kobe Bryant. It was a year tours Achilles. So you know, it sucks that it happened in that fashion. You know, you don't want to wish injury or anything like that on anybody, but that's just kind of how this game goes.
So I was.
Able to get in as a replacement, and I believe I was actually in the process of planning a vacation. Usually, you know, around the time we get our a little break, you know, the All Stars go do their thing for the weekend and the rest of the league, they kind of, you know, vacation and do their thing. So I was in the process of doing that and I got the call that I'll be a replacement. So obviously I was super excited. It was a goal of Mina to become
an All Star in the league. And you know, regardless of how it comes or how it presented to you, it's still gonna be an All Storr at the end of the day. So I was super excited and I was honored, and I was happy to be able to achieve, you know, a goal.
For me, it was, you know, a humbling experience. You know, I think the first year, I think I wanted to be one. I thought I was an All Star, and I feel like I got snub and that's what they say, that always happened. So for me, just motivated me to come back harder and work even more, not necessarily work on the focus on individual stats. And I figured, if we win as a team, you know, me having already three Hall of Famers on my team, if we just won,
I feel like I was able to make it. And I was fortunate I did make it early in my career, and it was a great experience. Like I said, my first All Stars, I was with my big homies and they had all made it, and it was just kind of showed me the ropes.
I didn't like. As many as many appearances that we had to do, I didn't. I was it was not a break and I damn had to spend my old check.
Because I had to get my family to uh to the fight because it was bad weather. So yeah, so, but it was a great experience overall, and like I said, to to that in me et to try to do better and continue to make those type of accomplishments on in my career.
Yeah. No, I mean the fact that you guys, you know, we're just talking about Kawhi and not getting the MVP love because of the teammates he played with. That was always a question with you guys in Boston of sort of you know, was someone going to be the odd man out because of the all the talent, But you guys were so good that no, bring bring three, Like bring three from that team. You know, that's fine, that
kind of thing. And I think we're seeing that now with some of the teams and who made it or didn't make it in the All Star game this year. You know, could you put two or three guys from a team that isn't winning the way you guys were, dough or like, I don't, I don't know.
I mean I think it's been that's been part of the factor too.
So the fact that you were there, I think really speaks to what a tight, strong team you guys were. It's my opinion we got to move on to I'll take that bet. I will take that bet presented by DraftKings. I want to look at odds with who will be the number one seed out West. Here are the odds Denver plus one fifty five, minnesot plus two sixty, Clippers plus two sixty five. Okay, see plus five hundred. So looking at the odds, how much money you would get back if you lay down one hundred?
Though, who's better you're taking? Which better you're taking?
I'm gonna take the Clippers all right to sixty five.
I'm gonna take that one and play it and play that bad. I think it'll be a safe bet for me. Like I said, this is the history of who they are and it's where they're going, you know, Like I said that James is just getting started. They playing the best best basketball in the last month Junior they were really hot, so I think they'll continue there.
The streak can go into the playoffs rolling with number one.
Seed, I'm gonna have to I think I'm gonna have to roll with one of the younger teams.
I'm gonna go with Minnesota, Okay. See.
And the reason the reason I say that is when it comes to veteran teams later in the year, they kind of have the tendency to, you know, take their foot off the gas a little bit. It's more about getting healthy, is more about you know, tuning up to find things for the playoffs, so the games don't matter as much. And these are two teams that have basically been here before, so it's more about matchups. It's more
about getting the right seed. You kind of figure out who you want to match up with in that first round, things of that nature. So those things matter for teams like that. When it comes to these young teams that are just you know, obviously want to show they had an incredible year, the regular season really matters to them.
It matters to the coaches and things of that nature.
So being able to say we were a number one seed or a number two seed coming out of the West. Those are great bragging points for those young teams. And obviously, being young, you don't really give a damn who you match up with. You're happy to be there. You want to go out and just perform to the best of the ability. And that's when it becomes a learning curve for those young teams, after they make this first step
and then start to move forward. So I'm gonna go with one of the younger teams, and okay, see in minnesot I know I can't.
I got to choose one, but I'm gonna put my money on both.
Well, Okay, See pays more, so you know he might want to go for that one. If you're on the fence. I think the Clippers will still care about getting the number one seed.
I just think that organization has been through so much that the idea of becoming the number one seed in the West would.
Mean a lot to them.
But I do agree with you it is about matchups because someone is likely going to end up drawing the Lakers or the Warriors in the first round as a number eight seed, and I just think that whoever is jacking for number one is going to care about that.
So we'll see how that plays out.
I do have to bring up last week's bet because you took the bet boogie for the Gatorade shower at the end of the Super Bowl.
You said purple.
I fell on on the job. I said orange, because indeed it was purple.
Congratulations, appreciate it with some moral victory.
My dumb ass didn't put any money down, so.
Made the right bed. Take my own bite, man.
I think this has a more big three, and I guess you'll just start listening to me when it's time to take a bit seeing them on the right.
Pa, I'm just saying, dough clear was also an option water.
So you could have bet a lot of things last week on draftkingspoort, but he went with He went with purple. He was right, all right, y'all can catch all episodes of Bullyball in the DraftKings Network. We're excited about that the All the Smoke Productions YouTube channel. You can also listen to us wherever you get your podcasts and be excited.
You're going to see more of Jean Rondeau across our entire network.
I'm very, very pumped about this, dough welcome and especially.
Here to bullyball. We're gonna have you on a lot, so thank you so much. Catch the rest of you next week.