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Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four forty six. Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep breath and try again.
Kat You Whitten broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Now.
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My guest new film Initiation, which he cod wrote. It's being distributed by Gravitas Ventures. We talk writing, working as a development executive, and so much more with guest Dan Benimore. Hey Dan, thanks love for coming on the show.
My pleasure.
So Dan, just to get started, you know, since you've listened to the show before, you know what the first question is going to be. And that question, Dan is, you know, how did you get your start in the film industry?
Well, I mean, you know, for me, it's I mean, I guess the real definitive moment was I came out here to LA and I got an internship with a production company, and then I was doing Apple about six months and I pretty much you know, I ended up getting hired as an assistant and then I got promoted from there and eventually I became the head of development.
So it was sort of I mean, really, I guess you broke it down, it would probably be when I just first got hired from an intern to actually being an assistant, and then it sort of snowball from there.
Now does that still work in a similar way, you know, because you know things are always changing and with the changing face of distribution and everything, is it still that that that way where you think interns are used as sort of like that farm system where they can be brought up within an agency.
My opinion on it, you know, was that because I was at a small company where basically, you know, the principles of the company were right there, like you know, you're dealing with them every day, and it wasn't you know. I think that sometimes if you go for an internship, you could get an internship with somewhere really cool, like you know, like say, for example, I got an internship with Lion Skate or something, right, so I'm a really big company like that, I would just be a guy,
you know, one guy in this massive machine. I think in a scenario like that, it would bet a little bit harder to have the trajectory that I ended up having at a small company because in a smaller company you go act directly with the principles, They get to know you, and you know, it's a more it's so much more personal relationship, and so it's not I don't think it says when it's a bigger machine, you know, I think you might have a tougher time having any
sort of you know, upward mobility like that.
Now, So when you went in there was that was that your goal to be to be hired or did you maybe have another aspiration, uh, to you know, to or another goal to maybe work for another company, or or maybe you know, just goal on your own.
Yeah, I mean I had no particular aspiration. I mean I showed up here in LA with my buddy from film school, and we got an apartment in Hollywood and basically, you know, for the first week we went to the beach. But then after that I was like, all right, what are we going to do? So I figured it would be worthwhile to try to learn, just learn as much as I could, and so I actually had a couple I think I had like two or three different internships at the same time. And I just you know, I
had no real particular goal. I mean, I I've always my endgame was always to be a writer. But you know, when I first got to LA, I just figured as much as I can learn, it's all positive. So I just kind of showed up and you know, and things things took the course they took.
Yeah, you know, And and you know that that's great because you know, because I have had friends who have moved out and uh, you know, the thinks are the same thing. They're like they always felt guilty about not being outside because they're like, look, it's a beautiful day out, the beach is down the street. What the hell are you doing inside?
You know? Yeah, yeah, for sure, man. I mean the longer you're here too, the less you go.
Until until like somebody, like a relative or something comes right, and then you're like.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah exactly.
Uh So you know this, And since we're talking about this part of your career, I want to ask, you know, because some of the people that have been on I didn't get a chance to ask from this, but what are some of the skill sets that did you think that you had at this point that really helped you stand out? And really help them. Uh, you know, your bosses and your managers that that they you know, they they saw you, and they saw your skill set, and
they they wanted to keep you. So do you you any like any of the skills off hand that that you think that really helped you, you know, get that promotion.
You know, it was funny because I started and at the end, I was in charge of the interns. So I would, you know, I would kind of manage the interns.
I would, you know, me and other people at the company, of course, but I think primarily I was part of my job, so I would kind of see, you know, you would give some interns, like you give them a script, and you know, there were times when I was really busy and I genuinely needed to have like a really in depth creative discussion about a script, and I didn't have time to read it. I would give it to an intern to read, and then I'd get up, you know and say, hey, do read that a script? What'd
you think? And you really it was very noticeable, and it's actually interesting. So now a couple of years are passed since I was at that job, the guys that were my interns that I could tell had something extra, they've had continued success, like they've transitioned to other jobs where they've they you know, some of them would become produced filmmakers, some of them work at other companies now. And you know you can tell the guys who basically
had confidence, they had opinion. That's pretty much what he blows down to. You know, if if I got up and I would ask him in turn, like hey, when do you think of that script? And he was just like yeah, all right, you know, like that that's a that's not really what you're looking for. You know, you're looking for somebody who has confident as an opinion and
also is like has a strong opinion. You know, Like so if I like something and you know the intern that I'm checking in with him and he didn't like it, and and I say, well, you know, I thought, you know, I felt this work and that work, and he kind
of backs off his opinion. I think that is also another thing that like, your opinion is your opinion, and it's important, in my opinion, to be strong in your convictions because once you waffle, he kind of lose credibility, you know, So stuff like that, I think, and then also just the basics, right, like just being responsible, like you're if you're giving a job to do, do it to the best of your ability, be on time, be
pleasant to deal with. You know. It's that that type of stuff really important too.
So would you ever sit down with a lot of these interns and go over things like this is how you read a screenplay and these are the things to look for.
You know?
Would you do stuff like that?
Yeah? Well, I mean when you would first bring them in, we'd usually try to get a coverage sample to show that they knew how to read a script basically, and you know, I mean we we had our own template and stuff like that, but that you know, typically if somebody is coming in to be an intern at a production company, we want them to have some reading experience because we don't want them starting from asslot the scratch, I mean, then they have no real place to have
a strong care of opinion. So usually we try to find somebody who had some sort of background and reading scripts and maybe they you know, whatever that might be, and hopefully, you know, start from there.
So was there ever a you know, a time when when you you know, you read a screenplay and maybe you loved it and you wanted to get a feel for all these interns, and maybe you gave it to them and there was a point where they said, hey, you know, hey, boss, we we rooted it like this, and then and then maybe you said like, hey, yeah, I loved it actually, and and was therever there was there ever a time like that?
Sure, yeah, I mean always, I mean that's but that's why. Yeah, that's what you need, uh, you know, readers for basically to kind of check you so you can get a sense, especially if it's something a little bit out there where you're like, you know, I think this is great, but it's pretty pretty weird. You know, you need a lot of times you need that extra voice to kind of you know, get a sense of how it's playing. So often in the situations like that, I would actually have
more than one person read it. I'd have like five people read it, and then I'd be able to look at sort of the general response and and you know compare and see what was consistent and stuff like that.
Yeah, and that's two Verger takeaways too, is uh, you know, one have confidence and to have an opinion.
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You know, that's very important to mention Dan because I, you know, just through everyone listening, I you know, I think that's very important too in the general in the film industry is that you have to have your confidence and you have to have that opinion, which you know, if you're as a director, you need that. As a writer as you know, you need that point of view from where to tell your story.
Yeah, that's and that you know, it's it's a funny thing because it comes back on you in so many different ways because if you project confidence and it's even on the page. You know, if you project confidence on the page, and you project confidence when you then later go into a development beating or whatever, you can kind
of slay people. Like people want to buy into that confidence. Like, you know, somebody's sitting down to read script, if that first couple of pages is written with a really strong authorial voice, they'll kind of come with you, you know. And if you, as the writer have a really strong take on a story and feel really strongly about it and can back it up and and all that stuff, people you know kind of want to take that journey with you, and they want to trust your credibility. As a writer,
So it's so important. Well, I think once you it's not to say that like, oh you know, don't be be inflexible, it's not about that, but it just you got to be confident in what you're doing because if you're not, and there's no ways, no one ever else will ever be confident and you you have to be confident yourself number one, and then other people can basically trust you. And you know, in our business it's so tough already that if you don't project that confidence, I think it makes it way tougher.
So what are some of the things that you notice, Like when we were talking about confidence on the page, you know, what are some of the things that usually jump out at you and you can usually say like, hey, you know that writer, he believes he or she believes in her own her own writing.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean it's I think it's a lot of different things. I think I think one thing for sure would be starting out with a storytelling sort of approach where you're not you're not waiting for us, like you're the story's going and we're either coming with you or we're not. But you're not going to hang around and hold our hand you know, I think that that is something you'll definitely see in professional scripts, and it's a very noticeable difference from when you're reading a script
maybe by a more beginning writer. You can tell the level of confidence in terms of a shorthand of communicating information, you know, where it's you and it's it's asking a lot of us as the audience that hey, you you got to keep up with me kind of thing. And I think that you when you when you read something like that, it actually sort of galvanizes you as a reader because you are suddenly empowered to like figure out what's going on and and it just makes it a
more dynamic experience. The worst thing you can do is is, you know, have something where it's just spelling it out to you, you know, in every way, whether that dialogue or just the slowness of the presentation of information or
presenting old ideas as if they are new ideas. You know, and there's there's you know, the audience now is so savage that it's really you know, there's a lot that can be done in shorthand, and if you're not using that shorthand, I think that's where you can kind of get into a scenario where it doesn't come across so the same level of confidence on the page.
Yeah, I do agree. The audience is very savvy now. I mean, you know, sometimes I'm watching movies and I see, you know, cliches and and I'm always thinking to myself, you know, if they I wonder if if they're writer, the director, whoever it was. I'm We're always wondering, you know, why didn't they try something else? You know what I mean? Because you know, now, Dan, what I do with the movies.
I'm always dissecting them in my head, not not even just you know, a piece of paper, but in my head, I'm always thinking to myself, you know, is this a setup? Is this is you know, what would the payoff be?
You know?
Uh, you know, I wonder what the inside the incident is going to be and when it finally comes there, you know you know what I mean. I mean, do you do the same thing? Do you said? You know when you watch movies? Now, are you just dissecting them and and sort rumors, trying to getting ahead of the story to see if you could, you know, predict what the writer was thinking.
Yeah, I mean I'm pretty much ruined as an audience member at this point. I mean, I remember, I remember I used to when I was when I was in college. I would go my buddy and we would sneak, you know, we would both see one movie and then sneak around the theater and we would do that for like twelve hours, and we would see every movie that was in theater. And I can actually should and watched literally, I watched literally anything. But now you know, I'm such a that's
an awful audience member. I'll find something, you know, like you quick something new on netflick two minutes if there's stuff in there that I just I'm watching it and I'm just like, ah, man, you know, I'll turn off, Like I'm I'd become such a terrifable audience member exactly because of what you're talking about, because we were in it so much that it's like you stop consuming it
kind of as like a regular consumer. You become a lot more sort of like hypocritical when you're when you're watching stuf because they're always thinking about the design of it and and things like that.
Yeah, I know what you mean, because sometimes you know, I watch movies, right even if you're a trailer now and uh, I'll say, let me guess what happens in this movie. And sometimes, you know, I'll stay out in front of my friends and they're like, how the hell do you would you get that from seeing this? And I'm just like, because I just you know what I mean, you see that stuff, you see those points, you know what I mean, Like there was you know, Okay, well,
this is obviously last part of the movie. I know this sounds a little bit redundant, but the first time I ever had not the first time, but the most time it sticks out in my mind was when Paul Blart malcov came out and I saw the trailer and a friend of mine went to always screening of it and I told him exactly what I think happens in the beat base based on the trailer, and he goes, wow,
you're really good at this. And I know I now, granted obviously we don't go see Paul Blart Malkoff for the writing, but but you know that's I was just bring that up as a point of reference.
Yeah, I mean in general, you know that goes back to the authorial conference thing, right, It's like, but soon when you're starting the story, the audience is ahead of you in the same way of what you're talking about. Like if you set it up and they're they are going to be predicting a certain storyline. So you the creator, you got to kind of know that, and you're sort of knowing that you have to give them something that's at least a little bit different, because otherwise it's going
to be exactly like what you're talking about. The audience is able to predict it like beat by beat, then you're screwed. I mean, that's really you know, then that's a really tough it's a tough place to get away from if you're in that scenario. So you got to figure some sort of wrinkle that makes it a little bit different.
Yeah, very true. And you know, I actually, you know, just as we talk about all this writing and everything else, I want to, you know, get get into your writing.
You know.
So did you always you know, have the inclamation that you wanted to be a writer director?
Well, no, so I have. I've directed one movie and some shorts, and then you know, for me, in the experience of directing my movie, which is called The Trade, pretty much told me that I would prefer to just be the writer, which you know, I enjoyed it, but it's just so all consuming. So I give a lot of credit to my cousin in Orange, who directed our movie Initiation. It's really an immersive thing that she kind of just you give up. You got to put a lot of yourself into it. So for me, I prefer
being the writer. I mean, the experience that we had making this film, it's kind of like exactly what I love about the being of the writer is that I was able to come in and contribute to the story and then they went off and made the movie and I watched the movie. I mean that's you know, that's like so that's when it's cool being a writer, because it's literally like you wrote something on a piece of paper and then you get to see that it exists, and you know, it's pretty pretty neat.
Yeah, very true, you know, because I you know, I looked dry MDB. I did see you have the short then you you did direct Portrade, and you know, I wanted to, you know, just ask you know, what was the biggest difference that you found when you when you had to direct. I mean, was there any like, you know, challenges that you weren't anticipating or you know, did you just say, you know what, I prefer to be a writer.
I mean, I think that when you're gonna direct, I mean I very much. I love working with the actors. I think working with actors is so fun. And you know, if I ever end up directing again, it will be because of that. The part that I felt, you know, and you kind of have to be all in or not in at all. For me, that was the visual authentic.
I had a really great uh cinematographer on my film Betrayed, and you know, he was really good about like basically checking me and being like, hey, that's not gonna look good. Let's do it like this. You know, when you're when you're promarier writer, you don't necessarily think in that and visual in the way that a director can to become
the same tools. You know, if you're if you're someone who's confident directing stuff and your aspiration is absolutely to direct, then you're gonna be doing the same study that you and I do for a writing right where we we know it so in and out and we know all
the tools and tricks and things like that. I think that you know, uh, and obviously you and you want you lean on your sematographer as a director, of course, but I just felt like for me, I enjoy sort of trying to master this one facet of it as opposed to like trying to I felt like it would be kind of a jack of all trade situation if I tried to do directing thing. As much as I like it, I don't. I don't have the same you know, energy with it as I do with the writing.
Yeah, I you know, when when I I haven't directed anything for like five years.
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But you know, I find that it's not because I don't want to. It's just because I've learned Dan that the writing has to be not good, but great, you know what I mean. Before you're going to do any projects. I've learned that it has to be you have to like you yourself whoever, you know, for everyone listening to this. If you're writing something, you and yourself have to get so excited about it, you're like, how the hell is
this not a movie made? Or Freddie if Nook, you know what I mean, And you have to be so And that's something that I've learned. So what I've I've been doing. Is I took one step forward to take two. I'm sorry, I took one step back to take two steps forward. And basically what I mean by that is I just wanted to make sure that I got better at things. And during this whole five year period, I've actually produced stuff. I've actually had a graphic novel get made,
you know, stuff like that. And but but it's really, you know, it comes back to, you know, making sure that writing is phenomenal and you when you when you talk about writing, you know, I can you know, I can hear you get excited about it in your voice,
and that's good exactly. You need that, right, So I wanted to ask you, Dan, when whenever you're writing, you know what I mean, like, is there any things that you keep in mind to you know, make sure that you're always sort of going forward if you know what I mean.
Yeah, there's a million things. I mean. That's the part that kind of it kind of sucks about the more you learn about it, right because I mean when when when I started, you know, you would it was a little bit more free because you were just like, yeah, man, you know, it's once you learn so much about it, then there's so many different things that you got to be thinking about, and so it actually makes you know
once you actually get on the page, I'm good. But the planning, the planning stage, you know, there's a lot that you have to be thinking about, and it helps to just do it a million times. You know, I'm very grateful for the time that I was a development executive because I basically you know develop, uh, I mean dozens of scripts and we made a bunch of the movie too, so I really got to see the whole
process many times. And so that that helps because you sort of get almost like a muscle memory for it. But yeah, you've got so much stuff you have to think about. You got you know, theme and character and dialogue and arc and structure and mood, and it's, uh, yeah, there's a lot to kind of manage.
Yeah, you know, one thing I've learned, and you know, like you said, you the more you learn, the more, uh you know, the more the more you do, the more you learn, the more you learn, you know, you realize how complex this gets. And you know, I've read every screenwriting book on the market. I literally you know, you can't see it because it's the podcast, but I have every screenwriting book out there, and I've read it from cover to cover. H you know, I've done what
everybody else does. You start with screenplay by Sidfield and you work up to save the Cat. Then you get story by the Key, you know, any sort of and then you sort of branch off from there if you read the Three Works, because you know, everyone sort of
talks about it. But one thing I've learned over the years is that everything comes back to character, you know what I mean, like everything, you know, when we talk about scenes, when we talk about favorite parts of a movie, when we talk about this or that, it always stems from a character.
I mean, it's very true. Yeah, I mean I would always say when we would you know, when I was a I'm executive and we try to put a movie together, it was pretty in every ready we made that actually ended up getting made, there was always a moment where we would attack somebody that was meaningful, whether that was an actor or director or whatever, and that person when they would come in, it wasn't like they said, you know why I'm doing this movie because I love the
you know the midpoint, Like no nobody ever said that. It was always about whatever the emotion was of it or whatever the character thing was that we were doing. That was what they would key in on and say, man, you know, I really meant something to me and I got company out of that. So yeah, nobody, it's it's all you know, the plot is informed by the character, and then they have to they have to not only coke this, but actually sort of be intrinsic to each other.
Like the the best movies are movies where the plot has to happen because of the character. Like those two. They can't exist out plot of each other.
Yeah, you know, it's very true. And I think the mistake a lot of writers make and and I've made this mistake, you know, more times than I can count, is, you know, developing a plot and trying to plunk characters insaid plot, if you know what I mean.
Yeah, And I think.
When when you yeah, when you try to reverse that, when you try to reverse engineer or something like that, I think that's where you sort of get stuck. Yeah, so you know, when you know your new movie initiation, uh, it's it's being you know, distributed by Gravitas Ventures. Congratulations, by the way, that's freaking huge.
Yeah. No, we're we're we're very excited, you know, and we're very proud of the film.
Yeah, I mean that that is, you know, absolutely phenomenal. And I wanted to ask, you know, where, so where did your idea come from for the film? You know, did was this an idea that came to you or was this just something that you know that that you've been sort of working on for years?
So this this is actually something that you know, my cousin Orn he had the initial idea. He had a script, and he basically, you know, we being cousins, we both live in LA I would always come hang with him, and you know, he mentioned he was working on this and at one point he you know, he I talked about working on it together. And so basically I came in and I co wrote it. I I you know, we we ended up writing, revising that script and and
uh working on it together through to the end. And and he directed the film and edited it and produced it. And so I this was a situation where basically I came in where there was already a product that existed, and I just gave my sort of creative energy to it. And I think that we both kind of compliment to each other in that process, and you know that was that was the process played out on this one.
So for those for those listening who aren't familiar with the film, could you give us a brief exclamation about the film then?
Yeah. So it's basically a group of strangers are kidnapped and they're taken to this kind of my serious house and they basically come to realize that they've been kidnapped to take place in an initiation ritual for a cult. And to be initiated into this cult, you have to fight somebody to the death. And so these people that are complete strangers to each other, they're just random people and they're thrown into this insane situation and they have
to try to figure out a way to survive. And that's what the movie is about.
Very cool, and it's actually cool that it's coming out right around this time, you know, this full Halloween time, you know what I mean. It sounds like the movie that's wrapped out Alleyway.
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's well, what's what's been cool about it is that it sort of it towes the line between action and horror. So, you know, we've been we've been really happy to see that a lot of horror websites have reviewed the film and given us nice notices because I think that it it's something that's a pun movie for people that like horror movies, but it's also a fun movie for you know, an action fan thriller type of thing.
Yeah, that is very cool. And you know because I mean, whenever you can see the horror you know, horror sites, whenever they can get excited about something, you know, it's always awesome because like we were talking about, with all the films you know that we've seen and you know, being able to sort of you know, spot the story.
You know, they've seen ton of horror films, so you know, when you can get them on board of something, you know what I mean, it's like, okay, great, now you got something you know it could have if they like it. I mean, what what's the general public going to think? You know what I mean?
Right? Yeah, nol, And we've been I mean we've you know, we have shown the film to a lot of people at this point, and you know enough people where it's it's a funny thing your relationship with your own work, right, I mean, anytime you show us something to somebody that knows you. You're kind of like, well, you know, they
might they might just tell me to be nice. So they thought, like, but we we've shown it to so many people, and then obviously I think we have you know, on IMDb there's some some reviews linked and uh and you know, Bloody discussed and gave us my review. And we know these people that have no reason to tell
out one way or the other. Right, So when when somebody that has no relationship to you tells you they got something out of your work, then that that's uh, that's big because then you figure, Okay, well maybe you know, maybe it does work, you know, And and this is a sort of more objective for that.
Yeah, exactly. And you know, I see that on the IMDb page. It's up on Amazon Video right now. Is there is there any other places that that people could find the movie.
Yeah, it's all over. It's on It's on iTunes, on Amazon, It's on PlayStation, it's on it's on a lot of cable on demand providers. I was in I was home in Baltimore, and I I saw it on my parents, you know, cable at their house. It's on Blue Doo, It's it's on the majority of video on demand providers.
And I will link to that everyone in the show notes. I will make sure to links all those places that you can check out the initiation. Uh, you know, I wanted to ask, you know, also about the initiation. You know, Dan, what's what's one thing you wanted you able to take away from the film? I mean, did you I mean, you know, did you want to have people leave going you know, damn that was intense? Or was there any other sort of theme that you wanted people to walk away from that walk away from?
A friend of mine just watched it, and that was pretty much what he emailed me, he said, and that was intent the the you know what was cool about it for me was that I think we succeeded. It's something that I'm always trying to do, which is aked with the genre movie and basically invest it with a real meaning.
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Meaning that it's not just kind of an empty genre exercise that's actually it has a message and a point to it that is emotional, that is you know, I mean, this will be basically about the idea that no matter what situation, you're kind of put into if you have this sort of inner strength to defeat it, then no
one there's nothing anyone can do to you. And you know, we sort of explore that in a lot of different ways than the film, but it was something that, you know, meant something to me, and I think that it gives the film a weight that you know, if we sort of just relied on all the genre stuff, it wouldn't have that same weight to it. So that that was the thing to me that I was most satisfied with.
You know, just as a side note, you know, a screenwriting professor once told me a great piece of scream writing advice, and that was when you're sitting down to you know, brainstorm a concept or whatever for for your movie. He said, this is a question you asked yourself, what do you want audiences to leave? What do you want audiences when they leave to take away from this movie? Do you want them to say, oh my god, that
was hilarious? We know, And he's like that helps guide you throughout the process when you're making the movie.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know you got to you gotta do it for a reason. There's just too much. There's too much stuff out there, all this it tasts too long, it's too much of a pain in the ass if you're not doing it out of some strong impulse of And it doesn't necessarily always have to be heavy, you know. I mean, we're like right now we my cousin and I are talking about doing another film together,
and we're we're talking about doing one. It's a little bit more sort of light at least in the tone. And you know that that can be fine too, But it's just whatever that impulse is that you have that makes it interesting and exciting for you. You know, you got to really feel strongly about that and kind of and and key on that throughout the whole thing, you know, because that's what you want the person who watches it to have that thing feeling.
Yeah, And that's exactly right. And uh, you know, I I think, you know, when we can finally convey that, you know what I mean, Like I think, uh, you're like, for instance, Quentin Tarantino, whenever he writes I'm thinking, that's the same thing that people pull away from, is the same mood he's in, you know what I mean, Particularly like, heyful late, I have I have a you know, that's sort of like a it was the same, but it
was different for him. And I sort of think that, you know, you could sort of pull away what he's what you know, what he puts into the script, if you know what I mean. And and you know, I wanted to ask, you know, Dan, as we know we were talking about your your your future projects. I wanted just to ask, you know, what does a typical writing day for you look like?
Man if I can just get some time, it's really time is the most important thing. I mean, I I'm not for me. It's not like I'll write anywhere. I'll write it at any time. I don't need to like, you know, consult the muse or anything like. I can just down it and bank some stuff out. But I think that I have a tough time. I'm sort of an impatient person, which I think is probably a pretty important part of any fixed out that I have had
or will have is down you know. I'm just I'm not patient to like just let things come as they may. Like I want to get stuff done, and you know, kind of that's always my ethos. So when I the planning part of it, that's the part that takes forever, like I'll do research, you know, on initiation. I did research into military stuff on other projects I've written, you know,
I'll read like three books about it. But once it's time to write and I actually have figured out the story, I'm so I have such a burning desire to just get it out of me and get it onto the page.
It's almost to the point where like I feel like I'm going to lose it if I don't that it comes very fast, you know, and I almost, I almost will consciously try to set aside, you know, just a couple of days or whatever where I know it's going to just be kind of flowing out of me and uh and just be able to kind of bang pages out, because you know, that's I don't. I don't, Yeah, I mean, it's just a difference in process. Right for me, The
real cracking of the story comes in the planning. The actual writing is just putting the planning on a piece of paper. So the writing itself is the fun part. The hard part of the is coming up with the actual story.
Yes, I could not agree more. That's something that I found too, is that, you know, uh, because once I have an outline or a treatment or anything, you know, what I mean, like any even if it's a piece of paper with some ideas, you know, scribble down on it that looks like the journal from seven you know, just something, I know where I'm going, you know what I mean? And you know the biggest part that was
always you know where the plot is going. But then I've realized always comes back to where the characters start, you know what I mean. So you know when the when the when the script starts is where the movie starts. So then where do we find our characters when the script starts?
You know, you know what I mean?
Or do they have something? Do they not have something? You know, what's their desire?
Uh?
You know, what's what's their intention? With's their obstacle?
Yeah?
Yeah, for sure.
So Dan, I mean look going down on average, how often, I mean, how many hours a day do you write? I mean, is it like sometimes like a thirty minutes, then sometimes maybe it's like two hours.
I think that on a day when I actually can really you know why, I have nothing going, I can really just hit and focus on writing, I'll usually I think after like three or four hours, you got to stop and I've done it. I've I've had times were off Fitt, and I'll write for like, you know, I'll write the whole day. But I think, as a general rule, unless it's something where I've gone insane or I have to you know, I think that three or four hours of a focus writing, after that it t has to
become diminishing return just your brain kind of. It takes a certain sort of brain muscle, I think to come up with this stuff, and after a while you start like you don't have that theme because you know, I mean, it's sort of what we were talking about before, Like each scene that you write, you really got to sit and think about it and think about like, Okay, you know, here's the regular version of this scene. Why is this scene going to be somewhat cooler than the regular version?
Like how can I make it different? How can I make a different not just in what happens, but in how the characters interact with each other, with the visual thing that I'm doing in this scene, with the reversal in this scene. So it's so much like mental effort to go into it that I think after three or four hours I got to stop. So for me, a good three or four hours of writing and then maybe some research. You know, in the afternoon or a lot of prep for the next day, you know, like okay
and tomorrow. I know, I got to write these thenes just kind of what I'm thinking, and I at least have a little bit of a roadmap of the actual precise execution, and then you can kind of flow into the next day.
Yeah, that's kind of like which I think Stephen King maybe said that. He said basically, he he ends on a high note that way, and the next thing he comes in, he knows exactly where he's gonna go, and he keeps that flow going on every day.
Yeah. I tend to do that as well.
Great mindset go alike. Uh, you know, and that and that's great advice by the way. So you know, Dan, in closing, you know, is there maybe anything that we can talk about that you wanted to or any sort of parting thoughts you want to want to add to this conversation.
No, I mean, you know, I think the thing that's cool to me about this project specifically, and I think is relevant to what we're talking about and probably to a lot of people listen to your podcast to you know, this is something that any of us could do. You could you you could have made this movie. You know, anybody listening to this could have made this movie. It's
a movie that we made for a low budget. But you know, one of the reasons that it's been so cool getting some nice reviews from some herts cycles that they basically said, yeah, it's a low budget movie, but the sort of ingenuity and the effort that went into it and that that made it it didn't. It doesn't feel a little budge it, you know, like it's not It's the point being that there's nothing stopping any of us.
I'm just going to make in a movie, and not just a movie that we sort of is enabled gaming for our own edification, but a movie that anybody can sit down and watch and enjoy at a real movie, you know, even if you have to do it for a low budget. You know, and I think that this is sort of to me a good case study of that that we actually went made this movie, got it distributed by a very legitimate distributor. It's out everywhere, you know, and you know, we we've got a lot of nice
responses to the movie. So we do think that the movie works, and you know, we we just look forward to hopefully having people discovered, you know, and and maybe we can go make another one.
You know, and that's that's phenomenal and uh, you know, honestly, Dan, I'm gonna make sure check out the The initiat I will everyone, I will link that in the show notes. Dan, where can we find you out online?
I mean, you know, just stuck with the movie. I'm not I'm like the worst person ever for all this. I don't have a Twitter or I'm not a social media dude. But The Initiation movie we have a website with Facebook page, and obviously it's on iTunes, it's on Amazon, it's all these other platforms.
Dan, I want to say thank you very much.
For coming on my pleasure, good conversation, Oh my pleasure, sir, Take care, take care anyway, I want.
To thank Dave so much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv for it. Slash, thank you so much for listening to guys. As always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof screenwriting, dot tv,