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Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four thirty eight. Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep breath and try again. Kat You Whitten.
Broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof.
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your.
Humble host Alex Ferrari.
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So, my guest today is a literary manager and script consultant and she runs her own consulting agency. And we discussed that very question, what does it take to make it to the next level? And we all know what that next level is, and that's all really very subjective, and I want to make sure everyone knows that because if you know, if you have a reader script for your next level is writing a script. If you've written ten scripts in your next levels, you want to get representation,
you have representation in your next level? Is you want to get it made by an A list cast and crew. Sounds simple, right with guests Whitney Davis, Hey, Whitney, thanks a lot for coming on the show.
Hey, thank you for having me.
You know, my my pleasure. You know, it's funny we were trying to get a hold each other for a while. Now, who would you just keep missing each other? But I'm so glad we could finally connect because you know, I saw your bio and you have a really really cool bio, and I said, I got to get Whitney on the podcast.
Well thanks.
It's been quite a journey, that.
Is for sure.
Yeah, And I actually wanted to ask about that journey, and I wanted to ask, you know, Whitney, how did you get started, you know, in the whole literary management business, and how did you get involved in the consulting business. So basically what I'm asking is where did this whole journey start?
Oh my gosh, this crazy story.
And to make it short, because it obviously has been a ten year journey. Essentially, I was in the right place at the right time, with the right person.
Is how this whole journey started.
About ten years ago, I had moved to Los Angeles with zero aspirations to be.
In the entertainment in the three It wasn't even really.
On my radar, and I had always thought I was going to be a novelist. Actually that if I ever really sat down and put pen to paper, which I think is something that a lot of people struggle with actually getting started. That if I ever actually got started that I was going to write a book.
And I was actually at a party.
And this woman approached me and I didn't know who she was or what she did, and she asked me what I was doing was myself and I was like, well, I'm actually raising a baby. And she's like, but no, honey, really, I mean, what do you want to do? And I was like, well, you know, maybe I'll write a book, And so she started asking me about it, and when I told her about this concept for my book, her face just dropped and she was like, I'm going to have my assistant contact to you tomorrow.
And I was like, what is that?
And so her assistant actually did come over the next day, and I kid you not, this never happens. That was a stack of TV pilot screeners like DVDs and a stack of TV pilots and they said, forget your book. Concepts were turning it into an original television series. And she happened to be a TV lit agent with William Morris at the time. And so that is how I got my start and to segue into the other part
of it. You know, I started in the television business, and then the ryer strike happened, and so people started Once I was out of work, people started bringing me their scripts just being like, hey, can you look this over since you already kind of broke in, And I.
Was like sure, and so I did it for free for a while because they didn't know any better.
And then I was like, maybe I should charge and people will go away, and then it just got worse and so I just did script development for a long time and then crazy enough again, this just organically occurred.
Some of my clients that were starting to do well in the contest asked if I would consider managing them, and I said no for a long time, and then it was just like I was actually already kind of orchestrating meetings, and so I finally just said what the heck, and I just jumped in with both feet.
So that is how I got to where I am today, in a nutshell, very crazy.
So when you when you first moved to LA, was there a reason that you moved to LA Because I know you said you didn't want to be in the entertainment business at that point.
So my husband at the time, he was there for grad school and so he had come to UCLA to.
Get his master's degree.
And I actually had applied to be an English teacher at Santa Monica High School, but then I found out I was pregnant. So I just decided the baby was coming in December, which was going to be in the middle of the years.
I just actually decided not to teach at all.
And again, like it was just the perfect timing that, right, you know, right after the baby was born and I was kind of had my feet back, you know, up again that I ran into this woman and started developing my TV series and all that. So it was just and it was hilarious because I was so green, I didn't know anything.
Like I was just like, oh, this is kind of cool.
But now looking back on it, I'm like, oh, my gosh, what an amazing opportunity.
Like people would have killed to be in my position.
And I was just kind of like doodling along like it was no big deal. But now looking back at is, I'm like, Wow, what an amazing you know, what an amazing blessing and opportunities to just not have been afraid, you know, I just didn't know anything, and I wasn't jaded, so I wasn't afraid to open up my mouth and say, oh yeah, here's my idea.
And I essentially pitched her without knowing I was pitching her.
So that's what I always tell people, that they just need to do their pitches. You know, when they pitch, they just need to do their pitches like they're having a conversation, because whoever they're pitching is just a human being like you and me. All they want is to hear a great story. And I think people get really
nervous at the thought of pitching. But you know, the other person listening to your pitch isn't like a unicorn, like they just you know, they're just a regular human who wants to find material.
And so I just say, hey, the best way to pitch is just having a conversation.
You know, that's the best, the best advice I can give on that, because that's how it happened for me. It didn't even know it that it was happening, so it was great.
It's like what Dan Harmon said about you know, he gave advice to pitching, and his advice was have you He said when you ever when you're ever going out there and you tell your friends about some movie and they go, oh, should I see that movie? And and you say yeah, And then your friends says, well what happens? Well, okay, let me tell you what happens in the movie. He says that, right there is how you should pitch to people. He goes, just just telling them about this really cool thing.
Yes, And I think that there's so much pressure these days for you know, how to pitch, and I really think there is no you know, formula if you would say, I mean, I think everybody's so individual that I just I mean, I did Great American Pitchfest in May, and
I was really amazed. Like I sat and probably listened to one hundred and fifty pitches, and there was a real big difference to the ones who were pitching comfortable and like knwed their story well as opposed to those who were trying I felt like to follow a very formula pitch that like they're like like, I'm not doing this, and you know, I could just tell that they were tied up and am I giving them the right information in the right in the right sequence.
I guess?
So yeah, I mean that's just something that I really love to talk to people about is just pitching bravely, like not being afraid to just say what they want to say and not worrying about a formula or anything like that.
So I love it.
So are you Are you still working with that with the Asian manager?
No?
Actually, I mean we are still on great terms. But after the like I said, after the so we kind of went through the pitching process of pitching my series at the time, and they had married me. For a lot of writers that don't know this, I think that a lot of you know, getting into the TV industry is or any you know, whether it be feature or film or feature film or TV, it's just like really
understanding the business aspect of being a writer. So you know, I was like, oh, I'm going to sell this pilot, blah blah blah. But really it was just, you know, when we went on our general meetings, they just wanted to see what kind of a writer I was and what my personality was, and so I thought I just
had all of my expectations like turned upside down. So anyway, after we pitched it and I didn't it didn't get bought, but I got hired we went through that, and then once the once the writers strike happened and I had the baby and things were getting crazy, I just I decided to just go with the script consulting and we
just kind of parted ways amicably. But it was just because I kind of decided not to go back into a writer's room per se, because it was just more amenable to being a mom doing this scripts consulting thing, and put I get so much.
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Satisfact out of people, out of helping people develop their concepts.
Look it really, I really love that.
So I think that's line management was a natural segue for me because there's so much of that in managing someone and helping them, you know, get to the next level and developing their ideas and being a sounding board. So to answer question, no, I'm not with that agent anymore. But we you know, it just was a natural kind of break and we're still on great terms. And I fear every so often that she's a caa now.
Actually so she even moved since then.
But yeah, so you know, you brought about moving to the next level, you know, as you know, as some of the questions as you can see that came in Whitney, I think that's a hot button issue for a lot of people, is moving to that next level, you know, And so spoiler alert for everyone listening, that's some of the that's some of the questions that have come in.
But but before we get before we get to that, I just want to ask, you know, Whitney, you know you have worked under people like Steve Kaplan and Jen Grasani, Lee jes Up by the way, they've all been on the podcast. It's them all. Well, so, so how did you end up working, you know, with a lot of these people in the field, because these are all, you know, well known people. Again you you've worked with Steve Kaplan,
Jen Grassani, Lead Jessup, John Truby, Chris Voldler. You know, how did you end up working and meeting with all these people?
You know what?
Honestly, I sauce them out, Like I was just like, if I'm going to do this, and I want to learn and you know, learn from the best, and so I just made an effort, you know, to save like this is kind of in that journey where I was it was kind of this weird in between period where I was doing the scripture consulting and was kind of deciding like as I personally wanted, and I guess I'm kind of an entrepreneur in that degree, deciding if I wanted to take my career to the next levels and
going into management, and so I just knew who the experts in the field were, and I was just like, you know what, I'm going to go. I'm going to find them out. I'm going to seek them out and find them and talk to them. And so essentially I just kind of made like a business plan that I was going to save up certain amounts of money and like invest in myself to go to their classes and
meet them and start relationship with them. And so that I think is part of where why I am where I am today because I wasn't afraid and I was like, I'm going to do whatever it takes to just kind of get get in front of these people and meet them and talk to them, and so you know, and then it's start being crazy that like we I mean, it's such a small world. And now that I'm kind of getting into that world with them, like I see them everywhere, Like I was just with Jen and New York.
We were doing a conference together and I see lead Jess up and like, I'm helping Steve with his comedy class in January. So, I mean, that's how I did it was I just took the initiative myself and went out, was like, I want to be associated with the people who know what they're doing, and I just took the initiative to go find them and to build relationship with them.
Actually, so that's how it happened. I just wasn't afraid, I guess. So I hope that answers the question.
So, I mean, you know, with the advent of the Internet, I think it's made you know, everything a little easier and a little harder at the same time. And one of the things that's made a little easier is finding these people because you know, all the people that we just mentioned, they all have websites, yes, and so did you did you find them through their websites or did you bump into them maybe at a conference Goop?
You know, I bumped into him all at conferences.
I mean I knew people in the industry and I had just been hearing about these people, and so like I either attended I.
Mean I met them all in person.
I made an effort and again this is hard if you're not local to LA, because a lot of the people are local to LA.
But I made the.
Effort to know, go to the conferences to make sure. I went up to them afterwards and spoke to them. And you know, now I really consider them friends and colleagues.
So I just I mean, I was truthful.
I was like, hey, like I want to I want to learn from you, like I want to know what to do. But for people who aren't local to LA, I mean all these people again, Lee, Steve, John Truby, Chris Vogeler, Robert McKee, you know, all of these people have I just say, the best thing that you can do is access their information. I mean they have podcasts, they have you know, online seminars, they have these things. Like these people know what it takes to get to
the next level. I mean, they are the experts. And I say, if you can't meet them in person, like tweet at them, email them.
You know, they do phone consults.
They know that Lee does for sure, and like, just stoke up everything you can from them because they definitely they definitely know what they're doing. I do consults as well. So I mean, you know, you just I think you just got to put yourself out there and like make it known. Like I always tell the writers I work with, like make it known within the first five minutes of a conversation that you want to write and you want
to do this and this is what your goal is. Like, I think it's important to speak that step out into the universe, to like let the world know, because it's like you don't speak it, how would anybody know it, you know what I mean. So I think there's a lot to making verbal commitments and letting people know that that's your goal because they can hold you accountable to it and.
Ask can you know? So I think that that's an important aspect of a writing.
Career, definitely. And I definitely think also, you know, finding out who you actually want to talk to and zeroing in on those people is really important as well, and in terms you.
Know, in terms of like I think one of the questions that the guy asked there was a guy that was like, maybe he wasn't local to LA, but he asked about queering. He's like, is that my only option?
Like I'm not in LA and like, you know, I always say, even if you can make one trip out to LA and go to like one of the big conferences like Great American Pitch Fest or Story Expo or like I know there's others that are like American Film Market or any of those things, Like so many people are at those and just even making face to face contact for five minutes and handing them your business card
and making a contact, Like that's enough. There been in a itself to like send a query and like agents and managers show up to these things like to film festivals and all these things. But I think that a cold query can be a little hard and difficult in
terms of taking things to the next level. But I'm just like, man, if you can invest and take one trip out to LA like a year, like it can do what and you go to the right event and you know, make sure you talk to the right people, like it can radically change the trajectory of your career.
Absolutely.
You know, we were talking about you know you you're you went to the management side, uh, you know of the business. And I wanted to ask your whitney, what are some of the things that you know that have if you have seen and that sort of like it is. Uh, That's what I'm trying to say, is sort of like a normal thing that you see, like the most common error screenwriters make. Because I was trying to say, oh.
Gosh, you know, that's a really tough question, because I think everyone and obviously is so individual that I think that one of the common errors that will turn either an agent or a manager off is just the way in which they go about contacting them.
Actually, like you really.
Need to research the agent or manager that you're trying to talk to.
I know that one of the.
Big things among agent managers often if you're sending a query letter that you're sending to a lot of different people, a lot of times, like the person sending in either the query for their film or their TV show or their literary novel will sell the agent's name wrong or
spell the manager's name wrong. And that is like the number one turnoff, Like you're not even paying attention to what you're doing, you know, So number one, I think you should paying attention to detail and showing that you're serious. I think another things that they look for, like which is crazy, is typos. They'll forgive them, but they're like if an email is just chock full of type. They're just like and people want to write like what is this?
You know?
So things said, those detail oriented things are one of the things.
The other thing is it's good to be.
Persistent, Like I think it's always good to follow up with an agent or manager. But you have to understand that most agents and managers are absolutely drowning in either scripts or books to read, like drowning all the time, like you're always playing catch up. And so a major turn off is like if you tell someone, hey, thank you so much for submitting your script to your book, like expect you know, to hear from me in four
to six weeks. And you know, an agent and amateur who really writer, who isn't aware of how things operate, They like, you know, they get antsy and they want to know.
And I totally understand because I've been there.
But if they start emailing like every day for every two days, which has.
Totally happened, like have you have you read have you read my book? Have you read my script? Have you done this? Have you done that? Like or just I forget it, Like if.
They can't be like you know, that absolutely tends to drive agents and managers crazy and they just you know, they won't respond, like they just won't.
They're just like these people can't be patient, like I'm not, you know, I'm not.
So I guess there's like I guess what I'm saying is, there's a there's a particular like Stanford protocol in terms I guess as behavior or general manners that those two minor things can be enough to turn an agent or a manager off, unfortunately.
I think. So those are kind of my two two big things I think of, which aren't even which aren't even.
Material related, which is like a whole other you know, which is a whole other thing. So those are like actionable items that people can look for, like don't send a query with typos, don't over you know, bother the agent's managers. And then there's the material side of things in terms of the content they send, which is like a whole different ballgames that we could.
Talk about, but I don't know how much time we have.
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No, that sounds great, you if if you have the time, I'd love to get into that. You've let them live.
In terms is like you know, I think so to me, says super quick. I think in terms of the content people send, you know some people, you've got like two types of people. And I don't mean this negatively at all, but you've got your people who are just like, my show is great, it's completely original, it's the next.
Blah blah blah, which is totally awful to say.
People are like sometimes they're like, I'm the next jk Rowling or I'm the next Quentin Tarantino.
It's like, don't you know, they'll say that.
And there are things that it's like, do not compare yourself to the greatest you know people out there.
That's just a no note.
But in terms of like the material, like I think a lot of it is people just they want to be a writer. And I just tell people like sometimes it will come to me and they want to be managed, and I'm like, well, okay, let me see what you have. And really it comes to an aspect of like are these people ready to be is there material ready to be shopped?
And the things that I look for to make sure that a material, you know.
That a that a either a script or a TV show or a novel is ready to be shopped it's like, is this story structure there, because a lot of times it's like they don't even have like I'll read through it and like key components of what makes the story a story or missing, like there's no catalyst. It's like, what's the insiding incident in this story? Or you know, there is no Allah's lost moment where the character really comes to this deep dark place where they have to rise back to the top again.
You know, is that's missing. It's like, you know, there's.
Nothing I can't manage that now on my consulting developmental side, like, yes, that's what I'll work with you to fix. But in terms of you know, are you ready a lot of another thing that will kill you know, a story or something like that is really stilted dialogue. Unfortunately, dialogue is one of the hardest things to write, and when you're reading through a script, if it's really stilted or unnatural, that sense, that will turn an agent or a manager
off when they're skimming through and reading. So you know, those are the things that I think you really have to pay attention to. And that's why the people like Vogler and Grissanti and John Truby are absolutely like amazing. Like Robert mckaye put a book out on dialogue and I read it, and I mean, this is my beniness and I like consider myself like pretty high up there. Not Robert McKee standard, but like you know, I know how to write dialogue and I read the book and I was like blown away.
I mean, it's just so good to be reminded of this step.
And I think people sometimes think that writing dialogue should be an innate ability, Like we all talk, so we all should be able to write that. But when you translate that to a script or to a book, it just, you know, it's hard. And so I think people the best thing that they can do for themselves is just practice daily read up on you know, techniques and ideas from the experts, and just don't give up because that and just keep working. And I think that that's like
the best thing you can do. And how does someone read it before you send it to an agent or manager, like have it covered or have Jen Grassanti or Lee or me or someone you know take a look at it, because that really helps to have someone in industry that knows what is people want, know what's out there.
To make sure you're on the right track. I mean, I think feed that can be invaluable if you get it from the right from the right source.
And you know when I think a lot of times too. You know, when you send a script to a agent or a manager, usually it's going to go to their assistant, right, you know, it's going to have their assistant read it. And I think sometimes those assistants, you know, can this get easily? And I've heard different things. Sometimes they say they can easily just chuck your script, meaning if by the first page they can they can see if so okay, so that is right?
Oh yeah, no, Well you know what's the crazy thing is now for someone like.
Me because I am a small boutique management firm, like it is me and one other person's I'm obviously not Circle as Confusion. I'm not you know, mad House. You know, I'm not you know CAA. I'm not one of these big things. So I actually read the scripts myself. But what is true is this, And this is the truth people, for those of you listening. The sad thing is this. It's like if you're at one of those big houses,
and this is the problem. If an assistant or a reader reads the script and gives it a consider or you know, you know, pushes it on to their boss. You know, they spend you know, the assistant spent all weekend reading and if they say consider or that they're going to send it on to their boss, that means their boss, the manager itself, is going to take time out of their day or their weekend to read it.
And if it sucks or it's awful and their assistant passed it on, guess what happens to that ass They're They're fired. It's so honestly, assistants, unless it is just absolutely cream of the crop amazing, what the sad reality is.
Is assistants are Assistants are scared to.
Pass it on unless they can just absolutely tell it's amazing, because they're afraid of their job. And I hope I don't get in trouble for saying this, Like I know that this is true and on certain levels at bigger firms, so you just have to be So what I guess
it's to say is like it's just stup how it is. Unfortunately, and so for me though, like being a small manager, like I'm willing to take risks on certain people and develop people and that's why I think the cold query is a really scary thing because managers and agents oftentimes it isn't always about the content that the writer has. It's about the rider themselves, like they want to see
like I have spidy senses. It's really weird, like I can sit down with the person and usually know within less than five minutes if I'm going to work with them or not, just based on their personality. So that's why I tell people, if you can get in front of agents and managers, your chances skyrocket, absolutely skyrocket, because
they're going to be working with you. And so even though your content may not be the best, if they can tell that you are a go getter and a talented person, they're probably going to be more willing to take a chance on you. And so that's why it's just downright scary to send something in cold to like CAA, for Cercles any of those big boys, just because that's
how the ball rolls. So but again, if you can meet those agency managers that work at those places at like industry events, then you're in a better, a much much better scenario.
You know, because you know, it's like I've had people in here before and they would say you know, getting a manager, getting an agent, or even a manager more so than an agent, but it's a better relationship. You're gonna be working that that person for for months or years to come.
I always say it is totally like a marriage.
And you know what's a crazy thing is is I've talked to people before where I've been meeting them kind of see if we're gonna work together, and I've even had to be like, look, it's not even about your content, like, because honestly, I feel like I feel like every agent and every manager kind of has like their specialty or their niche where they feel most comfortable and so like
mine at the current moment is television. Like I feel like I have much more connections and much more understanding of the tee reworld than I do of the film world. Do I know producers and people in the film world, Yes, but I just don't feel as comfortable in that space.
So when someone comes to me and they ask me what I consider managing that all they have is features Like I sit there and I'm like, look, I'm just gonna shoot straight with you, like your step is great, but honestly, I just may not be the right manager for you only because I don't think I'm going to be able that I have what you know, that I have the contents to shop you in the right in the right places, and I don't want to do a disservice to you knowing that I probably am not going
to be the best fit. So I'm just honest with them and say, like, look, it's nothing about your your ability or your talent, Like I just can tell that we're not going to be a good fit, or like I've pulled several people like you're great, that I'm just not passionate about this particular project. And to work together, like you guys, you have to be in pandem, like
you have to be on the same page. You have to have a manager that's going to absolutely fight for you and advocate for you one hundred percent.
And so I just, you know, I sometimes feel like it's just it really is.
It's like a weird form of dating in a way, like you really just have to make sure that you click and that you gel together because you really are in this weird writing marriage, you know.
So I think that that's been an interesting thing.
I've learned that I've turned people down who are really talented I just know that I'm not the best fit for them.
So it's hard, it's really hard.
Well, you know, that actually ties in with some of the questions that we got Whitney, and we actually had a pretty good amount of questions come in. You know, I'm if you don't mind, I would you would you mind answering a few questions right now? You're absolutely uh, you know, actually just telling you with what you just said. The first question is do I need more than one script to approach a manager?
Yes?
Absolutely, you do, generally speaking, when you come to a manager lead jessap This is one of the main nuggets that I learned from her back in the day. You really need what's called a writer's portfolio, and so generally what that entails is you really need to have, even if you're not a TV person, this is generally across the board just what a screenwriter needs to have. You
need to have a really strong TV pilot. You need to have a really strong spec pilot for something currently or not spec pilot, but that's script for something currently on air.
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So I tell people, you know, look, get watch television, kind of pick your top ten, well, I call a hit list of TV shows you'd really love to write for.
Then kind of knowing what your talent is, narrow that down to like five, and then pick one of them and do a really good spec because you know, people at the networks and people you know at the production companies want to see that you can mimic the tone and style of someone else's work, and even at the studios for features, because you know, they do work for hire for rewrites all the time for movies, but they want to keep it in kind of that same tone, so they want to see that you can somewhat do
that and then also have a really really strong feature and if you have more than that, then that great.
But three is kind of the minimum. And then you know, people.
Come in to evening like, well, I have five features and three, you know, three TV pilots.
What do I do?
And I'm like, well, you probably have a pretty good indication in your gut which went through your this, you know or the strongest, like you need to take those really, you know, read through them again, polish them, rewrite them, and then use those to send out kind of as your portfolio so absolutely, definitely more than one. Definitely one TV pilot, one spec pilot for something currently on air in any form like network, premium, cable or streaming.
And then a really strong original feature that you've written.
And also Whitney I think we I should probably mention too, and maybe I should have asked you this question before, but you know, there would you briefly just describe, you know, the difference between a manager and an agent, because you know, I sometimes think writers, you know, they always have an obsession about getting an agent when really it should probably get a manager.
Correct.
Absolutely, So for those of you listening, if you want, you can go to my website, I actually just did a four part series on representation, one on one explaining all of this.
But to really do a short recap.
So, an agent is licensed by the state to negotiate and execute the sale of your work. So they come in whin their business to be done, so they are the ones to do that, and they usually take ten percent, and so they really don't do They may read your scripts, but they aren't they don't have the time and aren't going to take the time to read it, give notes
all of that. Agents generally tend to have anywhere from thirty to fifty clients on their roster depending on where they are in the life of their kind of career, so they can take on a lot more people because they literally are just doing the business side. The one thing also you need to know is the agents are not legally allowed to produce anything. Their only job is executing and negotiating the contract for the sale. On the flip side, the manager is not allowed to quote.
Unquote procure.
Employment for their client. They're not allowed to like quote unquote get you a job like doing anything per se. But they can help you sell individual scripts, but they cannot like be the ones. Again, that's the agent role. So what the manager does is the manager really is all about developing your career. They are the ones that usually go about helping you network and get meetings like I just had a meeting with HBO and Hallmark a few weeks ago, and Netflix is up on the thing.
They're the ones who are going to really organize and schedule those meetings for you and get you in the door a lot of times.
Now. What's different though, is a manager can produce.
Which in some senses is good because your manager is way more invested in that sense, so they also take ten percent of whatever happened generally because they're the ones doing the heavy listing in the footwork of like helping you develop your concepts and reading and giving you notes and like really involved in the day to day. So yes, at the beginning of your career, if you can snag a manager like that's probably one of the best things you can do. And a lot of people don't even
have agents. They can in lieu of an agents, they can just use an entertainment lawyer, which is just the same an entertainment attorney, which is just the same thing. But what great was an agent? I'll say this caveat which great was an Asian. If you have an agent at CIA or one of the bigger firms, what's great is if they have someone else in their agency, like actresses and directors and all that. The great thing is they can package you know, material and that will help.
So it's like if you have your script, but then they have actresses ab and fee at their firm that are wanting to attach, and then they also have this director and then they can take it as one bid package.
That definitely you know, incentivizes the.
Sale So those are the two big things. Agents license by the state, negotiate, execute the contracts. Manager is not allowed to do that, but they can produce, and they're the day to day development, getting you meetings, helping you network, helping you brand yourself, helping you write, just kind of grooming you for your career.
So that's the short explanation. I hope that helps.
Yeah, that helped a lot, you know, and that's great information, especially about packaging too. You know that that's something also I hear, you know, people will always will always talk about that, and you know, I think a lot of times people sort of misconstrued that, and I think it's almost like the whole age thing.
Yeah, and it can happen on the management side. I mean, I guess it's at your management for it, but it's I feel like, I hope that's right, and I'm kind of second guessing myself. I've heard it happening more on the agency sides. In the management side, the same package, but probably someone's gonna like write in and say I'm wrong, So who knows. I'll put that at the caveat that I'm not exactly sure, but it's in my brain at
the moment. That's what it's telling me, but may be wrong, so sorry, if that's wrong information, I'll have to check. But I'm pretty sure it's more on the agency side than the management side.
Did they do that?
If anybody writes in, I'll just say it to you, Wedney. I'll be like, listen, Whitney, this guys, this is rank people.
I'll buy you a coffee. I mean, I don't know what to say.
So so yeah, so that's the differences between agents and managers. So yeah, I think management that's just spot.
I mean, I love it. I just see.
I just love being a part of the It's a sickness, really loving. I'll loving to be a part of the process so much. People are like every day it's so funny. I'm just like, why do I do this? Then, like when like a breakthrough happens, I'm like, yes, this is the best. I mean, it's just like it's it's such a crazy, crazy, crazy existence.
So yeah, it's like the plateaus and the hills, you know what I mean, it's like the the highest of highs and lows.
W Wait, but the thing is, you know, and that's why you know, I guess some of people could look on it as being shady, even though I don't think it's shady. Be'st I haven't given up the consulting side of my business.
Can you.
People come to me and they're like, I want to be managed. I know that they're just not there yet, So I offer consulting services. And I always say, you know, if you don't want to stay with me, because you know, you think that's odd. Like I'm totally willing to, you know, send people to several of my different colleagues.
But like, the.
Consulting side is just that I love so much too, because I love the people that are that need the expertise of an industry x you know, you know, an industry like expert or whatever, and I love being that
person to help teach them and all that. So it's kind of a it's kind of a crazy, crazy thing I love doing THO have so I feel like I can get away with it because my management, you know, Collector is so small at the moment that I still can help the people that are the up and coming aspiring writers.
So I really I really still enjoy doing that so much too.
Yeah, I can tell you know you really enjoy doing it, and I mean, you know, it's it's needed. You know, you have to have people that really enjoy this actually out there doing it. And you know, I love it.
I love it so much, and I think some people get really jaded and it gets tiresome. I just I just find it all so fascinating, like the way that the human mind works and the things that people can come up with.
I'm just like, I mean, I just like visibly.
Like I mean, Peo will laugh at me because my face just lies up.
I'm like, oh my gosh.
I'm just I'm like, even now, I'm thinking of some of the stuff that some of my consulting clients are pitching at Austin, and I'm just like, I cannot wait for them to pitch it because I just get so excited for them because the ideas are so freaking, you know, amazing.
So we'll just we'll just see it's this sun exciting world.
I actually have a few of the questions I I'm going to try to answer or I've started trying to ask these last two. So uh, Whitney other. This is by Joe's screenwriter, and Joe asked, what are some of your thoughts on the query letter? As a Hollywood outsider was your contact? It seems like my only shot.
Yeah, and so I feel like I kind of address this a little bit earlier, but I'll expand on it. So the query is a really test thing. Like to him, I would specifically say, if you're a Hollywood outsider and you don't live in LA, I would really just make sure there is a process to the query. So I would make sure and there's like an actual format to a query letter for film and TV. So I would look up or buy a book on how to specifically query your book or your film or your TV show.
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Second, if there's a specific place that you know that you want to send it, like, I would research those agencies or those firms and check their submission requirements because oftentimes certain places are closed to unsolicited queries and it's referral only, so you need to check and make sure that they're open to unsolicited queries. And yeah, for someone who doesn't live in LA, that may be your only shot. But like I said, it is not super expensive to
get to LA these days. I feel like, and it's just like if you can save up and come to one event or one kind of industry saying it Kim, and again I would probably say Great American Pitchfest. Something like that is like one of the best things that you can invest in because you can get in front of like a hundred managed companies and producers who you can pitch to, and you know, it's just it can change, It can change your life. Like honestly, so in terms
of a query, there's nothing wrong with him. I take unsolicited queries you can submit soon in my website. I know that a few others take unsolicited queries, like maybe Circle of Confusion. But you know, the other thing I would do to honestly for a person like that is reach out to people on Twitter and ask if they have managers or agents and like if you can get a referral, like if you can send it to a This is another way in which is a good point.
If you can find another writer who's currently represented and you send them there your query first and have them look get over and if they like it, they may be willing to pass it on to their agent or manager. And that's the way that it's not unsolicited anymore. So you feel like you have to find these backdoor ways in So if he can find someone on Twitter or Facebook or LinkedIn that's currently a writer and currently reps, like.
That might be a great way to go to if he can't get to LA.
You know, that's a great point, Whitney. You know, Twitter is a phenomenal tool and I use it all the time. I've always talked about the great uses of Twitter because almost everyone now is on Twitter.
Oh, I mean, Twitter is absolutely amazing.
Like it's crazy to me, like about how many people I've met on Twitter, Like I've gotten.
A few clients off of twit off of Twitter.
I it is insane, And I think to the screenwriting world, it really is the best social media platform for connecting for sure.
Is Twitter? Honestly, I think it's way I think it is the top one, honestly.
So that's what I would say, is like cold Query, make sure that they take submissions, it's not come to an event and if not signed another writer who is repped and see if they'll look at your stuff and check it out, or several of the last one. It's several of the if you can afford to hire one of the consultants, they all I mean we all know people, and so if they come across something that's really amazing, like they aren't, they will be willing to pass it on as well.
So I mean, I think.
And the other thing is contests, Like if you enter contests and you place in a contest, all those lists go to agents and managers the people that place. So that's another way to break in for sure, and so that may be easier than quarying.
Honestly, it's just.
You know, applying for a you know, entering into one of the many, many contests out there.
Yeah, you know, that's something I've heard before too, is they want to see what you're your writing can do up against other people's writing. And you know, I've heard that where they want to see, you know, hey, why aren't they these people going in this competition? You know, why aren't they you know, doing something, and why aren't they going that route?
So if we want to say that's good, that's another good way.
If you're not in Hollywood, because I know they takes you know, they it doesn't matter where you live.
You can always enter those contests for sure.
Uh So, Witney, you know, we've been talking for about you know, forty minutes now. So in closing, is there anything that we do get a chance to discuss that you may have wanted to or a sort of you know, anything you wanted to say to put a pure Atdennis whole conversation.
No, I mean, I just I.
Think that I want to tell people that truly, if they set their minds out to do it, it's amazing that if they just keep at it, keep meeting people, keep writing, things can happen for you. The two things I say, the two peees of writing or patience and persistence. So I think it just really is a journey. And if you're patient yet persistent and just keep at it, you know, I truly believe things will happen for people.
And I think it really is half relationships, half who you know, and half you know.
Craft and how well you write.
So I just always tell people always be nice to everybody you know you meet, make an effort to be friends with them beyond just wanting to sell you know, sell them or pitch them your idea, and just continue to really practice the craft the writing, and write because you love it, not because you want to make money off of it.
I mean, I think and people you know.
Can make money off of it, and that's the great But it's just like right because you love.
It and that's what you really want to do.
And I think the money will come if you go you know, look at it as a business and go about the right way of approaching it.
So those are just kind of my last few nuggets of as ice and encouragement. Just keep at it.
Just patience and persistence is the key, and being nice to people and it'll all, you know, hopefully it's fall into place.
So yeah, I like that last part too. Be nice to people because they're you know, even on Twitter, Whitney, And I'm sure you get this all the time. I get a lot of people who immediately follow me or they'll send me an email to my website and right away they're asking something from me like hey, Dave, can you retweet this? Can you can you do this? I'm like, I don't even know who you are. I don't even know what the movie is, right, Like why don't you?
Yeah?
And I'm telling you I And what I really appreciate is even the writers that I know once Tony, but they actually just like act me out for coffee and like we go to and just get to know each other before they make, you know, a certain ask or whatever.
I mean, it really is about.
Just getting to know other writers and building those relationships and you know, just acknowledging their successes before you start
asking favors of them. I just think there's so much power and acknowledging success just to be like days, you like do a great job at podcasting, like thank you so much for the for what you put out there in the Twitter universe and social media at large, and start that conversation that way, and then maybe after a few days, like, you know, it's been so great talking
to you. I was just curious if you know, maybe we could do X, Y and V together and like have something to offer back to them, like if you like, I said, like, if you're gonna offer to like reach you know, ask somebody to do this, be like, hey, in return, I'm more than happy to do X, Y and Z for you in the future, like see if you can barter or something like that makes it a lot, a lot, a lot more acceptable to me that people would be willing as they know that you're also willing
to give on your end. So I think it's definitely a give and take and the writing community is such a great place. I just love it so much. So, I mean that's what I always say. Be nice to people. The first rule of everything. It will it will come back around in a great, great way if you can do that.
You know that that's excellent advice. Whitney, Whitney, where can you will find you online and they.
Can find me at Whitney Davisliterary dot com and then they can sign me across all social media at W davisliterary dot com.
I mean well at W. Davis Literary.
Yeah, the handle on Twitter, he's booking, LinkedIn and everywhere else.
I guess yeah, and everyone. I'm going to link to that in the show notes. Whitney Davis, I want to say thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
He thank you for having me. It was an absolute blast.
Oh I'm glad you had fun because this is your first podcast. I'm glahead you know you had fun on it. Yes, it was my thank you, Oh anytime. Best of luck, Whitney. And you know, if you ever want to come back on the show, please just let me know. I mean more than happy to have you back on.
I would love it.
We'll have to figure something else to talk something else to talk about, but for.
Sure, Oh, there's so much we could talk about it.
We just doe networking. I love talking about networking for writers. It's like one of my favorites. We should do that.
Oh that sounds good because I usually get asked about how I how I network and when I go on other people's podcasts.
So we should do it. It'll be fun.
Yeah, we could do like a dual networking thab be pretty cool.
Let's do it.
I'm down, Whitney, thanks so much. Okay, thank you eighty time, take care, bye bye.
I want to thank Dave so much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv for it. Slash four thirty eight, thank you so much for listening, guys, As always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.