BPS 436: Lessons in Filmmaking, Failure, and Persistence with Greg Travis

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when I was born. It just shows you have to be in the long haul, really does, and that movie Dark Seductions will be out October eleventh on v O D and m OD with guests Greg Travis, Hey, Gregor, thanks off coming on the show.

You know, so it's pretty much I just want to know, is you know how did you get started?

back and actually made a little profit on the whole venture. And I thought, Wow, this is easy, I can do this little did I know what I was in for. You know, then I came out to Hollywood and went to film school. And while I was going to film school, I started auditioning at the comedy club and then kind of got a stand up career going and got a

few TV shows and started working the clubs. And I did that for about twenty years, and then I moved into the acting direction in the mid nineties and got a few big movies and then I kind of helped launch my acting career and did about forty five films in the fifteen years or so. And now I'm on my third act and trying to get back to what I originally wanted to do here, which was be a

director and a filmmaker. And you know, I mean I've written all these years, and I've made a lot of shorts all these years, but in the last eight or nine years, I've really tried to focus in and you know, make some movies. So I've got three features, Night Creep, Midlife, and now Dark Seduction that are finished features and that

are getting out there. And Dark Seduction is being released October eleventh on VOD North America, VOD and pay per view, And so I'm super excited about that because it took me about thirty years to complete that movie, which I'm not bragging about. It's kind of embarrassing, to be honest with you, because it should have been finished, you know, at least twenty years ago. But I ran up into I ran into a lot of obstacles and a lot of problems with this particular film that you know, stopped

me from finishing it. Every time I would go back to try to finish it, something horrific would happen and just stop me in my tracks, or or sometimes I'd run out of money and I'd have to you know, regroup, you know. So it seemed to be an ongoing pattern in the process of the whole post production thing. But you know, it's one of those things you just, you know, you try what you can, and then when I got back to it the final time, I was able to

get everything back and finally finish it up. So I'm really happy about that.

You know, I've been there before, you know, whether you know it's you know, different you know, personalities, you know, not agreeing on set or different producers, you know, not agreeing, you know, or or even you know sometimes I mean, for instance, Greg I had at one time, I had an editor who every time I asked to see a kind of the movie, he would say, oh, yeah, you know, it's don't going well listen to that, And I say, well,

I'm gonna go. I want to come up and see a cut of it, and he would always have an excuse to Finally he you know, he have to admit. He's like, listen, I have been working on it at all. I'm and he's like, you know, I'm sorry. He goes, yeah, So I understand completely what you mean. But you know, I do want to talk more about Dark Seduction, but you know I would be you know, I again, you have such an extensive IMDb resume. I just want to sort of take a step back and you talk about

some of your credits. I mean, you have worked with some of the best directors you know, not only going today, but some of the directors that have you know, ever ever lived. I mean, you've worked with David Lynch, Paul Vhoven, You've worked with bobcat Goldthwaite, You've worked.

so I could watch anything that was available. And so, you know, I've always studied film and always loved it. And so when I would meet these directors and go in for the final audition, I would start talking to them about their obscure movie, the one movie that no one knew about. That's the one I would talk to them about. They love that, you know, they absolutely love that because like they don't get a chance to discuss it. So it was like, you know, kind of the inside

scoop on some of their obscure films. I would like talk to them about, you know. But David was great. I didn't really have too much to say. He was in the middle of shooting and the cast charactor brought me over to him, and you know, he just said, great, you're right, this is great, you look great, and it'll be perfect. And so that was about it. So, you know, I got lucky on that one. And he was a whole lot of fun to work with. He's really detailed oriented.

He put the blood on my face himself, and he, you know, he was like really had ideas about every little movement and every little thing, and it was all very well planned out and very well thought out. You know, he knew what he wanted and all right, you know,

you never know exactly what you want. I mean, you got an idea concept of the scene and how it should go, and you try to explain it to the actors and then you just hope for the best and that's basically what every director does, and then you tweak it as you go along. He said, well, maybe you don't, you know, you don't scream that much here. Maybe you bring it down a little bit there. Maybe you don't hit him with the gun there. You know that kind

of thing, you know. So, but yeah, i'd always been as a matter of fact, the eraser head was kind of the first midnight movie that I saw when I came out here, and it just dis disturbed me to no when I just didn't quite understand it, but I felt I mean it felt it. I felt there was something really going on here, but I didn't quite you know, I didn't understand what was happening, but it moved me. Help put it that way. You know.

sort of thing in his next movie. It was going to be the TV show that got so many awards? What the hell's the name of it? Drive. Yeah, he did the same kind of thing, only with women. It was the same sort of like switching characters than you know, becoming another person kind of a thing. You know, Yeah, I know exactly what I mean.

that guy, I mean, he's just you know, phenomenal. I mean, but you know, so I wanted one to ask Greg, is you know, when you're working with somebody you know like Lynch, or you're working with somebody like Paul vay whole, you know, what are some of the biggest takeaways that you think you've had? Do you think there's something that there's there's like one constant that you know, sort of maybe strength that all these directors share that makes them you know, who they are.

I mean it's not constantly throughout the film, but it's still there. And well, he's really great at that, and every other director has their strength, like Verhoven is a kind of a very strong, just in your face imagery that just really sticks with you and really hits you in the chest, you know, very entertaining, very fun, and just keep coming at you, you know. And I love that kind of stuff. I love, you know, strong imagery

and strong choices. And you know, as an actor, when you work with these kind of guys, you just have to kind of like go with your confidence and come in with the strongest ideas that you can think of and just you know, know that that's right, and not worry about exactly what you think they want, but within the script and what you think it needs, that's what you give them. And they'll let you know if it's not what they want or if they want to tweak it. But most of the time they really liked what I

did and they were very happy with it. So I was really lucky to be able to work with those guys, you know.

in this in this particular role. And so one of my question was, is what are some of the biggest takeaways that they that they when you're working with them, that that you have used in your own projects, you know, sort of like something that you've learned from you know, Zack Snyder or Verhoven, you know that you're in rob Zombie, you know, something that you've taken and sort of put into your own films.

that Ridley Scott does that same kind of thing. He'll move the camera an inch or two over with each progressive take so that he gets a little bit different angle and a little bit different look, you know, And I thought that's pretty pretty cool. You know. The film. The last film that I, you know, shot and put out there was Midlife, which was a very Cassavetti's type

of a look. I shot at long lens and then the wide shots were like a forty millimeter or so, it was kind of a wide and that's what I was going for, was a very kight, kind of very realistic Cassavetti's type of look. And so that's kind of what I was trying to capture. And so I would go back and study all of his films and see what he was doing exactly, and they're all a little different.

They're all shot a little different. There is no one Casavetti's look, but he does do long lens close ups and pretty tight close ups when he does them, and so I use that technique, and you know, you just learn, you just pick up different directorial techniques from working with all these different directors and then also what you know, working as a director for many many reading short films and theater and all kinds of different things in my own shows and stand up, because in stand up, you're

really directing yourself, you know, I mean you're really sort of like jumping out of your skin and saying, well, what this look like and what would that look like? And you kind of have to have the second nature about what would make an audience laugh or what would make an audience cry, And you develop those skills as you go along. And I think that I've been able to do that and now I'm ready to really apply a that knowledge to making movies. You know, Yeah, you know that's a good point.

written by you, So I wanted to ask Greg. You know, you said in the intro that you know you want to sort of want to go back to this because this is why you you got into this, was you wanted to make your own films, right.

and we're waiting to find out. But at least in my movie, I do let the cat out of the bag at the end of the film, and I do explain somewhat what was happening, even though there's a few things left of the air, I suppose to David lynch who doesn't ever explain anything, and you're just like left walking out of the theater and what the fuck was that all about. But you know, you have to study his films and then you know, kind of come to some conclusions on your own. But that's what makes them fun,

you know. But yeah, I just had I had a winner of opportunity, and then of course that investor pulled out at the last minute, and then I had to scory around with some of my own money, and so a few other people that I knew put a little money into it, and then we were able to kind

of pull it together and do it. But you know, I had made Dark Seduction back in our mid eighties, and I actually felt really really confident at that time because I'd been doing a lot of shorts leading up to that, and I had a very specific look, and the partner that I was working with shot at and he understood what we were going for, and so the look

of Dark Seduction I was pretty much satisfied with. I mean, there's a lot you could go back and say, well, I could have done this, I could have done that, but I, for the most part, I got what I was trying to get, you know, and there's always things you could have done better. And some of the shots we did were out of focus, and didn't come out, which was a shame, but you just, you know, you

work with what you got. And so then all of that time I would go, you know, you be thinking that I was going to come back and finish Dark Seduction, and then after that that would lead to another film. So we'll be.

about vampires or anything. It's about a creepy landlord that comes into this girl's room at night while she's sleeping, and we don't know if it's a dream or if it's reality or exactly what's going on because she takes a drug and so we think the Night Creep drug might be causing her to have these hallucinations, and so that's part of the plot. But it came out pretty good. It's a lot of fun, you know. But Dark Seduction is the one that really everybody seems to be responding to.

The premiere was a huge success, and the audience loved it, and everybody's really really excited about it, and you know, they really really like it. So it's kind of a weird hybrid of a nineteen forties detective film and an eighties lesbian vampire film. And we're not sure if the vampires are really vampires or if they're just badass chicks that think they're vampires and go around doing these things.

And so there's that mystery and there's that angle of it, and you know, it's just a really odd, kind of weird, little cool cult movie that you know, took me forever to finish, but I'm glad I did because the technology has gotten so much better now. It made it so much now. It's much slicker, and the sound and the music and everything about it is much better now having finished it this past year, than it would have been if I would have finished it twenty years ago or thirty years ago. You know.

a camera. And now also you know, you know there's cameras out that cost as much as the house, you know, and you know it's amazing this this amount of technology. So I wanted to ask, you know, did did you you know, use any of the of the new cameras sections to sort of put to maybe shoot some new scenes or no, any.

print of it. It's much better than if I'd have made a film print because we have more control with the digital transfer, you know, and it is sharper than a film print. I mean, it is a little bit sharper. So I got everything, you know, And unfortunately the negative have been setting around for a long time. So even though they cleaned it a couple of times and we had it sonically cleaned, there's still a little dust here

and there that was embedded in the negative. So, you know, it gives it kind of an old you know, tcum, you know, a little bit of an old quality that you know, kind of makes it even cooler, you know. I mean, nobody complain about the little specks that are on a few of the scenes or you know that pop up from time to time, but it kind of gives it an old feel to it, which is kind of neat too, you know. Yeah.

bit more punishment than even Bogart. So I found this actor, comedian named Tyler Horn who was perfect for the role, and so I just didn't even have a casting session. I just asked him if he wanted to do it because I knew he'd be great in it, and he really is funny. He's he's quite a perfect kind of dick tracy looking character. So it worked out really well.

some directors are not, you know, savvy to that. They they want to stick to the script verbatim, and they don't know when to expand their idea and to take advantage of a talented improvise, of a talented actor who can improvise, and even if you don't use it in the film, sometimes you just go you just let it happen, and you like play with the ideas. And I think improvisation is a really good technique because you've got the idea in the script, you know where you're going with it.

You know, let them play with the lines a little bit. As long as the information you need to drive the plot is in there, then you can, like, you know, you can go off script a little bit and play with the ideas and you never know, you might just use one of those lines in the editing, or you might use a couple of little of those bits, And a lot of times it's better than what you had in mind in the script because you can't always imagine

it until you get there. And then when you get there and you see what you've got to work with, go ahead and work with it. Go ahead and expand the idea, you know, and explore it a little bit. I mean, I think that's the key to really good filmmaking is to explore the ideas once you get there. You know, Yeah, I can incurk Greg.

It was just enough to tell the story. And that's what you try to go for, is just the essence of what you need to tell the story. You know, people like you know, there's a lot of directors who get a little indulgent, and I think the big trick is not to let the line of tension go. You know,

that's the most important thing in a film. If you look at for all the classics and all the orson Wells films, he was very adamant about keeping the line of tension in there, you know, which is driving the story, and also keeping the audience interested as to what's going to happen at the end of this story, what's going

to happen to these characters? You know. But when you lose that and you veer off and you go into different places for a long period of time that don't have anything to do with the story, it can really derail the train, you know, it can really throw you off and can throw your audience off. So you really have to keep that in mind. The line of tension,

I think is the most important thing. Whether it's a comedy or drama or whatever kind of movie you're making, you really want to keep the audience interested in what's gonna happen at the end, you know.

you know this is this guy's this John McClain. He's bleeding, he doesn't know what's going on. He's injured, he he doesn't you know, he's not just walking in the room with a machine gun clearing up the whole room, right,

you know. They really he really had to you know, dissect what was going on and do this sort of very very you know, cerebrally that's human words, rebelly, but you know he had to go in there and you know, sort of deduce, you know, and sort of use assurgent scalpel and then you know, that's why I think, you know, die Hard is such.

get rid of these guys. And yeah, it was a great little scripted piece, you know, and it was very well executed on the direction too, because the other cops didn't know what was going on and they weren't taking it seriously, and you know, these guys were We knew as an audience, remember, these guys are super bad and you better take them seriously or you're gonna get you're

in for a big surprise. And so we knew that as an audience, but you know, within the film they didn't know that, and so that was kind of an interesting angle on it as well. And there's also those kinds of things. As an audience, you tell the audience

certain things, but the characters don't know. Like in Dark Seduction, we know as an audience how he got bit, but he doesn't figure it out until well into the film, you know, because he just came, I remember, and it's not clear to him and he's not sure what's going on. But it's the comedy, I mean, it's it's more of a comedy parody of a nineteen forties detective film that it is anything else, but I tried to make its own unique movie by combining it with an eighties vampire field.

So it's like a time shift that that makes any sense, There's like two different time periods going on at the same time. So it's kind of weird that way. You know.

sort of let it flow nationally. Yeah.

you're going next. And then, of course you change things as you go along, and not all outlines, not all scenes in the outline are going to make it into the script, and then you come up with new stuff as you go along too, but at least it gives

you sort of a place to start with. And I just sort a little short film and I just kind of you know, did it in a week and just kind of chipped away at it like a page page and a half a day until I got it all done, like you know, thirteen fourteen pages, and then I sent it to some few people, got some feedback, did another draft of it, and now I think it's in pretty good shape. And so I think, you know, you think

about these things for a while. You kind of like get a beginning, a middle, and an end and think about, you know, okay, you need the thene you need that theme. And I didn't outline that particular short film. I just actually just scripted it from just what I had in mind. So it's a little different with each project. But I think on a full feature. It's really good to do a detailed outline of the whole thing first. And I learned that from working with I used to write with

Rick Overton. We were writing partners back in the eighties. We wrote some scripts for studios and a bunch of screenplays for Independence and whatnot. And I learned that technique from James Keach and Brian Grazer were the producers who were working with in the early days, and so that that's one of the things they like to do. And I think it works pretty well, you.

of that. I've read a ton of scripts, and you know, if you don't have that three act structure, in there. It really can be quite problematic, you know, not that everything has to have that or that it should have that. I mean with Midlife, the three act structure was sort of hidden and it was not exactly the way it should be, but it was still there. You know, it was still there, And I think that's a good thing to have consciously when you approach an idea, because if

it's not there, you're really on shaky ground. You're on shaky territory. And by that tree act structure, I mean like certain things have to happen to your lead character, you know, certain beats and certain things obstacles and the conflict testing creates and you know all those types of things that are script structure.

You know, we talked about, you know, what the three act structure is supposed to be, and you know, even even the different system that you've seen like Save the Cat, you know, really what they're trying to do is you know, not only is it trying to guide a transformation, but it's also you know, trying to just make sure that you're always amping it up so that way, you know, you don't sort of you know, on page fifteen, you know, you have some kind of climax, and the rest of

the movie you just sort of, you know, just meandering. It's sort of, you know, just trying to give you like a blueprint of where to go right.

keeps the audience wondering what's gonna happen next? Oh my god, you know, you can't get any worse, you know, especially in horror movies, that's a very prevalent technique to use. You know, when the girls trapped in a castle and she just keep one bad thing happens after another, and you know what, you know what the next bad thing that's going to happen. You know, it's like a horrific thing that's going to happen. It just keeps getting worse

and worse. But yeah, yeah, so you know, knowing all of this, you know, and learning all of these things throughout the years is both the writer, actor and the filmmaker is just gives you more ammunition, gives you more confidence going into a project. And you know, films are tricky propositions. You know, they're just not a guarantee that they're going to work, even if you have a good script, even if you you know, have just thought about it and you've got it all worked out and you shoot

it perfectly. I mean when people went to see The Shining, they were walking out on it. They didn't like it. You know, it wasn't like the book. Everybody was expecting, you know, Stanley to do the book and he didn't, and it just kind of you know, it didn't really shock you or scare you that much. It had a few scares in it, but not really that scary. But it took years for that film to sort of find its audience and find its place in the horror world, and now it's considered to be one of the best

horror movies ever made. But believe me, when it came out in nineteen eighty, nobody knew what to it. They were just like, oh, that was weird, you know, they didn't know how great it was. In other words, is what I'm trying to say. And a lot of his movies are like that. They they tick time to kind of find their audience and to kind of become, you know, as great as they really are. But I don't know how he was able to do that, but somehow he

did what he was Films are weird. I mean, you don't always get it the first viewing, you know, and then there's all different ways. If you view something by yourself on television, it doesn't always hit you. But when you see it with an audience in a theater, oh my god, it becomes a whole different thing. You know.

theater and see the true reactions. And it's amazing. You know, some of the things that I've seen a thousand times and didn't think we're that funny get big laughs and you're just going, what was that all about? I didn't think that would get a laugh? But it does. You just never know, You just never know about you know, certain things in your own movie that you think, you don't even think about them, you know, and then all of a sudden people are reacting to it. And it's

just amazing, you know, and just constantly surprising. Yeah, you know, very true.

know they. I don't think anybody can really watch a film by themselves on a small device and really have a good response to it. You know, nothing looks as good on a small device by yourself. I don't care who you are. You know, you're not going to respond to it as much as if, you say, with a few other people, because you're you're focusing more on the movie or watching the movie with other people in the room than you are by yourself. You get distracted you

put it down, you stop it for a while. That's not the way a movie is supposed to be. It's a book, it's a it's a one thing, it's a one time. You got to go from A to Z with it, you know.

on so many of them. I don't know all the listings, you know, but it should be available you know, Amazon, iTunes and all the cable pay per views, so we'll should be able to find it pretty easily.

the actors rehearsal. Sometimes there's a couple of actors rehearsals before the camera comes in, so that you can kind of find the choreography and find the way you want to do it, and then the camera guy comes in and starts seeing how he can shoot the scene along with the actors rehearsing it, and then you break for makeup and touch ups and whatever else you need to do, and then you come back and you're ready to go, and then you shoot it. But you know, reading books

about acting, and it's a little over complicated. I mean, there's this whole methodology that you know, there's different branches of the method and all of that is well and good, but that's usually the actor's responsibility to take that on and learn that and use that as his own technique and part of his craft to get where he needs to be for an imaginary scene, you know, And so directing actors in that, you know, if they need a little time to cry, if they need a little time

to get into a certain headspace, an intensity or something, you give them that time as long as it's not too long a time. Give them a little, you know, a minute or so to to do what they need to do to get there, and you're better served. Sometimes that's what it is. Sometimes Sometimes actors are you know, in character, and they stay in character, and so there's

that to consider. Sometimes they're in a certain mood that will help them create the character and the mood that they're trying to achieve, and so you can't you kind of have to kind of watch out for that sometimes, and you know, and then some actors, you know, just drop it the minute the ul cut and they're themselves again, and then they jump back into character, you know, when the cameras roll. So there's all kinds of different ways that actors approach it and you just have to be

aware of all of that as a director. But basically, you know, you've got to know when somebody hits a sour note and of a line reading is not very good. You really have to be able to tell that and tell the actor how you want to adjust it. Not doing a line you're reading for the actor, but go, let's try that a little quicker, or try it a

little different way. It just seemed kind of falling, it didn't sound real, or you know, something to that nature where they you know, they get an idea, but you're not insulting in them at the same time, because you want to be really nice to your actors. You don't want to be mean to them at all, because then they get upset and they get nervous and they don't perform as well. Yeah.

same way. Well, finally he realized, wait a minute, I really all my takes are pretty much the same. So you know, take you know, take one a you know, take one is the same as take ten. So really, at the end of the day, he said, you know what I should have done was after each take, I should have just tweaked that performance, make that adjustment, you know, and just sort of try everything a different way, so to speak, to sort of try to find the best sort of way to handle a scene.

that I've got to work with. I'm going for a specific kind of insulting, kind of creepy, kind of hardcore feeling with this character, So I don't have a lot of latitude. I'm really trying to pinpoint that feeling and that that character, you know, And I think that's kind of unless you're a character that's all over the place.

That's kind of what you're trying to do is, you know, endpoints, your reactions, pinpoints, your your your lines to define the character that you're playing, to be that character and how that feels with a character. And there is a right and wrong in that, I do believe. You know, sometimes it feels more like the character, and then you say it slow or you say it in a different way than it doesn't feel like the character. And so that's what you're doing. You're just trying to get that meter

as close to that character as possible. You know, yeah, I think that's great advice. I think it's great advice. Greg.

don't pirate movies. Don't download pirated films because that only hurts the filmmaker and it makes it much more difficult to put films out there. You know, everybody wants something for free on the internet. But we still we got to get our money back, and we've got to try to support the films that are made on a shoestring budget that are good by paying a little you know,

four or five bucks to see them, you know. And I don't think there's anything you know, I think that's an honorable way to go, and I think that's what we as film lovers, you know, should do. That's the right thing to do. And you know, I'm hoping everybody will enjoy Dark Seduction. And I've got another film, Midlife, that's on iTunes and Indie Rain and a few other

outlets out there, and check that out. But Dark Seduction is the big one, and it's you know, it's very comic book, it's very cultish, it's very dark and moody, but it's also extremely funny and I'm super proud of it. And it's kind of different. It's it's unique, it's got its own little thing going. Yeah, So I hope people dig it.

Greg Travis, I want to say thank you so much for coming on and I wish you the best with Dark Siding.