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Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, episode number four thirteen. In the film business, it's basically honor among thieves, Able.
Ferraro broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood.
When we really should be working on that next draft.
It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof.
And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage.
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Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you are and the goals of the project you are, so we actually break it down by three categories, micro budget, indie film, market, and studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a reader that's used to reading tempole movies when your movie is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars,
and we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof Script Coverage, our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WME, NBC, HBO, Disney, Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot com. Now, guys, today on the show, we have filmmaker Greg Hemings. Now, Greg is here to talk about something that is not talked about a lot in our business, which is abuse
on the set. Abuse of interns, of people who are below you in a way that like not physical abuse, though obviously there is that, and there's gonna be two movement and all that stuff, but we're here to talk about the verbal abuse, the work abuse that's on a set that happens, the ribbing, the kind of just this nastiness that happens, like you've got to have to like kind of go through a hazing process almost when you're on set. And Greg has really come out against this
and wanted to talk about what can be done. What filmmakers, especially young filmmakers coming into the business, need to understand about abuse on the set. Look I was yelled at. I was abused. I was verbally abused by my first boss when I was working at a commercial a commercial production company down in Miami. I've been abused multiple times on sets, meaning a verbally abused and taken advantage of. I was working on a TV show as an intern, and the executive producer of that show sent me to
his house to help him move. You know, these are kind of things that you do, and what are you going to do when you're in that space, when you're that young and you know, like this is such a powerful person, at least you perceive that they are. They can either make or break you. Are you going to say no? Are you going to just eat it? Well, that's what this whole town is built on. It's built on people eating crap a lot of times from other people who have made it to a certain level in
the business who abuse them. And it needs to stop. And Greg and I really have a very candid conversation about that and what can be done, how you should react to those situations and so on. So, without any further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Greg Hemmings.
I'd like to.
Welcome to the show. Greg Hemmings man. How you doing, Greg so good? Thanks so much for having me on.
This is fantastic man.
Thank you so much for being on the show man. Thanks for reaching out. A mutual friend of ours, Jimmy connected us and you know you wanted to come on to talk about a bunch of things. And I think the main focus we're going to be doing today is abuse in the business, which is shocking because I've never heard of any abuse in the business. Have been a very Pollyannic kind of world of film industry. There is no abuse, there's no yelling, there's no you.
Know, it's just a kind place. And you know, it's a it's certainly not a shame based learning environment. It's a it's a place to thrive in blossom.
I I feel, I feel so the same way.
That's why I'm bringing all my my children will all be starting from scrat It'll be great. It'll be great. No, We're We're gonna talk about something that really is is a little bit more in the news now. I mean, Scott Rudin is now famously being basically thrown out of Hollywood because of the decades of abuse that he has given people.
I didn't know he was the best.
He was the source for the very famous film Swimming with the Sharks.
Uh, he was.
So there was a movie called Swimming with the Sharks with Kevin with Kevin Spacey as I mean, you can't write, you can't write this stuff, man, I'm sorry. So Kevin Spacey was playing the agent, and I forgot who the I think it was John Cryer or or not even it was John Cryer or another actor of that of that generation.
I forgot who.
Starred as the assistant. And the assistant was just getting i mean, just destroyed by this producer. And everybody in town knew who it was, but out in the world nobody knew. And it was Scott ruden he was he was the producer. So it was a very quiet, hush hush thing. But now it just started to come out. I'm like, yeah, it Scott Rudin, who was based the basis of that that horrible human being, and uh and the whole concept of the bullying and all that stuff.
We'll get we'll get into him.
But at first, I want to know, how did you get started in this fantastically pollyannic world that is Hollywood.
Well, okay, so I've got a very long version of the story which I will not go into, but I'll I appreciate it. I'll try my best to connence it. So high school, okay, we're going way back into the mid nineties playing a rock band, and like every kid playing drums in a rock band, you assume that's what you can do for a living, and that obviously you know, and going to the career of touring and playing music. For me, it didn't quite ten out that way. That's okay.
But in grade eleven, I was in media studies class and I was like, I got to make a music video for for my band. And back then, of course, all we had was multiple VHS decks, and we had the video toaster, classic classic software, the best wipes, the best stripper wipes you could ever imagine.
Oh, they had like the oil.
It was all we were talking about this before we started. Was like they had this this woman dancing as a transition, which was obviously a stripper. There was a pole transition with like I mean they actually just shot the footage of these these so there was sheep falling, there was oil transitions, but it was literally physical things that they shot. And I guess they keyed and then read and transition for it. So it was it was revolutionary at the time.
Like man, just as a quick as side Alex, we should do a short film trying to find the guys who designed and go girls who designed those wipes like their epic and they don't exist anymore, like you said, but wipes of falling sheep anymore.
You know what I gotta tell you. I found I found them. I actually did research and I found them. They are available because I wanted I wanted to put them out. I like, I'm like, I want to just create the video toaster, like who owns these things?
And I found them.
I think you can insert them somehow in uh in somewhere.
But anyway, this is a side note.
Let's not get into a video toaster episode.
It's a good digression for anybody in the in the nineties who was in the in the in the industry at all. Anyhow, I made this music video and I was like, this is really cool. And so the only thing I did in high school with video was making and I was like, hey, putting images to music, it's
really awesome. And I remember I was in my IV history class and we were doing this thing on Pompeii, and I took Pink Floyd's Live at Pompeii music track, but then I started editing a whole bunch of other I was essentially rebuilding the film the Pink Floyd did it anyway, but I did it my own way, and that was my project, and I was like, hmm, this is really cool. So for me, it was all music and film, music and video and images coming together, and
I never really thought about it again. But except for the fact that I'm a creative guy, I'm a musician and that was a lot of fun playing with video. Fast forward to graduation. I go to arts at the university in my town, and I just felt like it was an extension of high school. Nothing no disrespect to the university itself, just all my same friends, the same location. And I was just going to arts because I didn't know what else to do. And then a buddy of
mine at a Christmas party I was at. He was in Ontario and I hadn't seen him in years, and I asked him what he's doing. He goes, I'm going to film school. I said, that sounds way cooler than what I'm doing. So it was literally out of boredom that I was like, that sounds way more cool. So I ended up flying to go to the same film school. I got accepted at Nagara College and in Niagara Falls, Ontario, and went there for three years to study broadcast television
and film. And that's when we're shooting with Super sixteen and editing everything on the stainback. And you know, like I loved becoming an editor with film, you know, like it really was a it was a gift to learn
on film. You know, Avid was starting to come onto the scene, but you know, early days, Avid, it was one hundred and fifty grand if you wanted to jump into that e then So it was really it was really cool to learn the art of storytelling, even as a cinematographer, knowing full well how much that little real role of film costs. You know, you're not taking five
six seven takes. You're doing five six seven rehearsals and then a take, and then when you make a cut, you better be sure it's the right cut, because you're not. You don't have the money to get a reprint.
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So I really think that learning in the film film school environment was really cool for me to to become an efficient, you know, a cinematographer, director and editor in the earlier years. Quick fast forward into graduating out of college, I immediately joined the union and started in the IATs
and I started in the camera department. And it is there that I really get to understand the the movie magic, you know, behind the scenes of how movies are made, and working on big crews, you know, one hundred and two hundred people cruise and doing science fiction series and you know, movies of the week. And I remember doing a Disney movie in my first or second year and just at a lot of really interesting projects. And I thought at that point my track was to become, you know,
a director of photography. So you know, the camera department was my was my angle. And you know, I don't know if this is where we want to go into the into the crisis point. But I don't know about you, Alex, but if you're a creative person working in what's supposed to be a creative industry, but it is like walking on eggs shells and you are you're in an environment where the stress is so high there's so much money on the table, and you know, Pooper rolls downhill as
they say, my kids just walked in. It's a dollar every time I say the sah word. So and I just remember feeling after, you know, working you know, working through the ranks and the camera department, never being happy going to work. You know. I'm like, this is supposed to be movie magic, Like is this supposed to be like the dream? You know? And I was like, people don't respect people here, Like you're respected if you're up,
but you're not respected if you're down. And you know, I understood that concept of shame based learning, you know, like if you screwed up, brought the wrong lens, or if you didn't guess what the next lens was that your first was calling out for. You know, that sort of thing got reprimanded publicly. And for me, I had the great blessing Alex of never being bullied in my life as a kid. I was one of those kids that was friends with everybody, you know, and somehow I
got saved from being picked on. Maybe I was picked on, but I probably had thick enough skin that I didn't recognize it. I don't know, So being having the sense of being bullied as an adult after spending three years doing the film school, telling all your friends and family that you're gonna be working in the film industry, and then a couple of years into it, realizing that you don't want to do it anymore, and feeling that awful
feeling of am I going to quit this thing? My whole identity right now is tied up in this thing, right But I had that soul issue of I'm a creative person and I wake up and go to set and I feel I feel like the creativity is being beaten out of me. And you know, some people listening to this might might think, oh, well, Greg, you know tough enough, that's the way it is, and you're right, it is the way it is. But that's not the way I am, nor is the way I wanted to
invest my precious life. You know that, you know, going to any job where your soul gets sucked at you, what's the point? You know? So that's how I got into the film industry. And I'll pause there for a second because you might have another direction you want to go into. But the how right after I quit, like literally the day I said I'm done it was the last day on a something like a seven month series. I lived in a little oter home behind the set.
It was pretty cool. That part was neat, but I ended up going on this adventure that was completely life changing. Which I'll pause right now is every great storyteller will just to leave you, leave you hanging. But yeah, anyway, I just want to ask you a question first, But how I got into the industry. I fell in love with film at film school, which is kind of a neat props to film school because I wasn't a film guy for that.
So so I mean, look, you and I are of similar vintage. So you and I as vintage as we'd like to say, a nice way of saying we're both old. So but you know, we came up around the same time, maybe in different parts of the country, maybe in different industries. Around the time that you were in Canada doing what you were doing. I was down in Florida going through
that process as well. And my first, my first meeting with that kind of environment was my first internship at a very predominant commercial production house and there were a couple of owners. One of them was the sweetest man in the world, and the other one was bipolar.
He was bipolar.
In the days that he did not take his medicine, he was a monster. And the day he took his medicine, he was the nicest human being on the planet.
So it was you know, and that was the first time.
That I would get publicly yelled at for whatever I did, some thing wrong I was And this is all office stuff. So in the office, I would be yelled and everybody in the office kind of felt that energy, like, oh, oh, he's here kind of energy. And I was twenty whatever, I was like twenty one, twenty two.
I was a young kid, and him yelling at me.
But then like the next day show up and it would just freak you out because you would just like, hey, that's how you do it.
And I'm like, what the hell? Man, Like it's fine for what are mine trips? And he says, hey, man, you know I want to watch this movie. I'm going to show you this movie. So like one day he would.
Be like a mentor and the next day he would literally just come in like.
A rampaging bull.
So that was the first experience of that, and then that kind of that kind of experience happened again and again on sets. I did a lot of internships on a Universal's back lot in Orlando when I was in film school. I worked on a lot of TV shows there and got hired as a PA and all that stuff. And I would see the same thing. I was on a Fox show and the producer would show up and everyone be really quiet, and you know, like, how is he feeling today? Is he Is he going to destroy somebody?
And you would and I would see him. He never took it out on me because I was just so low on the total pole that I didn't even matter, but he he would destroy, like you know, writers right there or other producers or other staff. Uh, and you want to talk about abuse. One day he's like, hey, uh, the the producer Boris. His name was Boris, which of course his name was Boris. Uh, the bors Boris wants you to do a special run for him. I'm like, oh, great, this is awesome. I'm gonna do a special run. So
that gives me and I'm at his house. I'm like great. So I I drive out to the house with a couple other pas and you know, we're in the van and we basically moved his house for him for free. So we basically we were his movers for the day.
Yeah, we like he was moving far more scandalous. I don't know, I didn't know where you were going there, but.
Uh yeah it could have I could have you know, I could have gone real like, yeah, I could have been uh you know the the I could have been weinsteined, but I wasn't.
So no, but it was. It was.
But still that's a form of abuse because what do you say.
Do you say no to that?
Because if you say no to that, then you risk your position in the pro in the production, and if you get fired from that production your chances of moving up the scales is hard. So they understand that they have power that they can kind of twist and use an abuse, especially of the young, especially of the of.
People who are just starting out.
You just eat it because you have no choice because the opportunities of our business are so minuscules. Sometimes, especially at that era, there was no like, hey, grab your own iPhone and make your own movie like that. That didn't that was a tough sell to do that. It still cost obscene amounts of money, you know, tens of thousands, even on the lower end, you know, Clerk still cost twenty three grand, you know, you know, you know, slackers still call lost money. You know, these these movies still
still do cost money. And I was in no position to do anything like that.
So those are the kind of.
First stories that first times I felt that kind of thing. And you're absolutely right with I love that term shame based learning, because that's what it is on set. And I've been a director for years, and I've been on set for years, and I see it. It's never been when I'm on a set and I'm a director, I never allow abuse. Uh, but that ribbing which sometimes can especially in the camera in the grip department. Oh Jesus, the camera in the grip department.
They're brutal. They're just brutal.
But a lot of times they won't do it publicly. They'll do it within their own own own hazingius.
Right, Yeah, it's.
It's a hazing process. And some of that is kind of ribbing, and it's kind of fun and you're like, you know, you got oh you got a tough enough. It's the business and that's fine and some of that stuff, you know, and it's a fun environment as long as if the person doesn't feel like they're being abused. But even then you've got you got to balance that kind of that line, you know, but.
Think about that in any other industry. So really good point is this is why it's so hard for me to quit, because I was like, it wasn't easy to get into the union, wasn't easy to go through film school. And once you get in, you get to wait for your next turn to get called back. And so you're right, there is a there's a scarcity approach to the to the film industry that makes us all want to do the right thing and say the right things and you know,
make the right people happy. But unfortunately, if you've got the wrong people in positions of power, the abuses is so easy, right and convenient. And that's but like any other industry. Hey, it happens in every other industry of course, but specifically in the film industry because it's so scarce and it's so special, Like the film industry is so so magical from the outside.
Right, it's just a market. It's just a marketing and branding tool. Like I always say, Hollywood's great at the sizzle, but it sucks at the stake. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show. You know they I mean, and I always use the analogy of the Oscars.
You know, when you see Oscar Night.
I don't know if you've been down to Hollywood Boulevard, but yeah, yeah, if you go Oscar Night, man Oscar Night in a normal Oscar Night situation, red carpets, that Hollywood Boulevard looks like a magical place. You leave the next week, I mean you should.
You can't walk if you walk a block or two away from the Adobe Theater.
You know, the darker it gets, the more chances you're gonna get stabbed or hit with a needle.
Like it's a horrible, horrible place.
Funny, I was in Hollywood just before the pandemic hit, so I think it was November of nineteen, was that right, Yeah? Yeah, And we're putting a film festival on at Wanderlust Yeah really cool yoga yoga spot as an impact film festival. So I brought it in. You know, films from Patagonia and from you know, a bunch of different like B corp companies that are doing like corporate but like documentaries that are really you know, making making the world change.
And sol pancake plays like that. It was a really cool gun. But I remember one of the nights I was there, it was like nine o'clock at night and everything was shut on Boulevard. There's no like there's one pizza place we found, and I was like, I thought this place is I thought it was like the strip in Vegas. No, no, no, it's horrible.
It's Look.
I'll tell you my first experience going to Hollywood Bolvard. This is what happens when anyone comes to La who's visiting people who live in La. So I was visiting someone who lived in La and I the first thing my wife and I said, like, we gotta go to Hollywood Bullvard and you see the face just go like, Okay, it's not what you think it is. I'm like, no, no, golly, Hollywood.
I want to put I want to see.
Where the hands are in the prints in the Chinese Theater. So we drive there and this is before Madame Tussau's. That whole complex was just a parking lot right when I got there. So we park right next to the Chinese Theater. We get out, and the moment we get out, some woman, random woman walking by, she goes, hey, and she just flashes us and she's like, whoa Hollywood. And then and then my buddy turns to me and goes, welcome Hollywood. I was like, holy cow, and like and
then I just walked around. I'm like, this is horrible, Like this is nasty, this is I don't want to be here. Anytime I've ever had to go down to Hollywood Boulevard, it always I'm like, ugh, I have to go to the Chinese theater for a film festival or something, I'm like, oh God, I don't want to go down there.
Oh it's horrible. But that is the sizzle and the stake.
That's what Hollywood is so brilliant at. They are the best propa. They're the best propaganda machine in history because Hollywood and movie stars and our culture here in America in general has been exported to the entire world.
In the entire world buys it.
But the at the end of the day, it's not real life is not like friends, you know, it's just not.
It's it's not.
It wasn't when they were making it. They couldn't afford that damn apartment in New York in a real life Like how the hell? So we're going on a tangent, but that is this is in the stake.
You're absolutely right, Yeah, so they that's uh. I think it's like a little bit of a dream crusher too in a way when when young people get into the industry and uh, and they're present and you know what, this doesn't happen everybody, you know, it just happened to me. You know, other people thrive in that and they learn really great in that and all that. I do remember
feeling great responsibility. It's a camera trainee and there's a second camera assistant holding that megafilm that we that we shot probably for the last hour and a half with who knows what the payroll was for the actors that are on that one thing of film. And here's me, the lowest paid guy on set going into the dark room or into the dark bag? Why would shoot changing it? And if one ounce of light gets into that like
it was incredible. So I understand the pressure. I understand why it's so critical to be militant and precise, but there's ways of doing that that help people be inspired and excited. And you know, fast forward to where we are now, that's the film culture. I've been trying to build surrounding my company, but you know, going going back
just to finish off my journey. I ended up. A couple of days after I quit the industry, I went to see one of my favorite bands play in a neighboring town and this this lady came up to me and named Charlene. I never met her before, but she had a flask of yeagermeister. She's like, you want some ygger and I was like, yes, I do. So I had a couple of swigs and she told me that her her ole man, her boyfriend was this Dutch captain who lived in a sailboat in the Caribbean and he
runs cargo like all over the place. And I was like, I used to say when I was a kid, I'd love to do that. And literally this week before nine to eleven, so it was very easy to get a passport. I didn't have a passport yet. Just a number of days later, I had my passport and I was on an airplane. Had no idea what was getting myself into. And like I said earlier, like this, you know what's the scandalous thing? Were what to jump into? I was like, am I going to be running drugs on the sailboat.
Is it going to be guns? Is it? What are we doing here? Because nobody told me, just like here's your plane ticket, he needs crew, So I land and I ended up living on a sailboat, on a massive one hundred and ten foot saleboat. And there's just captain me and this other guy named Tyris from Saint Lucia,
and we delivered cargo with a little crane. It could we pickup trucks, so it could we rive refrigerators, fish, whatever, And we'd sail into little markets, I say, markets like island markets where the big cargo ships wouldn't be able to get to efficiently, so we would get we'd fill up the supplies for shops, grocery stores, whatever, very quickly and efficiently, all by the power of the wind. So like we'd sail like fifteen pickup trucks to islands and stuff.
And the film industry and the sale it comes from the sailing world, right, if you're a sailor, there's a good chance you're gonna be a good rigger and a good grill.
Good grip.
Oh yeah, absolutely, all.
That sort of thing. So it felt very natural, and I was smart enough to use a few dollars before I went on that trip to buy my first camera, which is the Canon gl One, and I just documented that whole experience down there, and my time in the Caribbean continued. I after the sailing adventure that went on for a very long time, I jumped on a cruise ship as a theater guy, and quickly they found out
that I was a film guy. And I opened up some of their broadcast departments on some of the ships and they had Avid so like one hundred and fifty thousand dollars version of that where I'm like, oh, this is nice. So I would come home in the summer and I would make music documentaries do you know different music festivals and whatnot. And I come back in the winter and do my job, but also edit all my films on the avids on the cruise ships.
And I did that free time off. Yeah, free time off. Isn't it funny though? Isn't it funny? What you're saying is because I've said this so many times. When you get bit by the bug, you can't it's it's a it's it's an infection.
You can't get rid of it.
It's it's done. It's in your bloodstream.
I thought I was done, but I wasn't.
It comes back up wherever you are in life.
You're like, I'm gonna cruise ship. I should maybe bring a camera. Like that's that's a sickness. It's not like I'm just gonna leave.
It is an illness because like you know, when you leave McDonald's from a job, like I quit McDonald's, I will never work in the fast food industry again. You don't go to another job and go, you know what, we need burgers. Like it's not you bring with you but a thing. It's once you're in, it's in you and you can't get rid of it. And it can go dormant for years, by the way, a decade or two could go by.
It'll always live underneath.
And I got I got sixty year old seven year olds seriously come to me like, you know what, I just retired. I want to be a filmmaker now again. And I got the money. I'm gonna go make my first movie.
And that's it's just it's an illness.
That's the name of your next book, Alex.
The illness, the old, the illness, the illness. No, it's the beautiful illness, but it's not really It depends on the illness. It could beautiful, it could be horrible. It all depends.
But that's fascinating that that's the kind of route you went to. Like my route was more post. I found my life in post because one, I didn't have to deal with anybody, generally the one person maybe a producer. The abuse wasn't as much inside of a room one on one, because there's a bravery that needs to be there from the person in power to yell at the person who has control of your entire nobody else around, right right, So there wasn't as much abuse. I don't
think I was ever really yelled at in post. I can't remember if I did. I've forgotten it over the years, but it wasn't as prevalent. It is on set because the egos are on set and you've got to show off, and sometimes it's and there's politics involved in all that kind of stuff. I did have a fistfight start in my in my post suite, not me. I was between a client and UH and the agency who got fired. The agency got the agency got fired mid edit.
There's a fist fight.
It's Miami. It's Miami.
It's Miami's magic right there.
It's my It's it's Miami, bro, It's it's Miami. It happens.
But you, you know you when you when you reached out to me the first time you sent me this amazing article about your America American ninja or American American, Yes, American Ninja, the American the American Ninja. Michael Dudkov on sets behavior. Can you please please please throw it out into the world.
I'd love to tell this story because it's it really wasn't a hurtful experience, but it embodies everything we're talking about here. Okay, so it was my first film. So my buddy Andrew Tibby and I he was my buddy by the way, that got me into film school. But that both of us we got on our very first feature film together.
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And Sydney Fury was the director. And Sidney Fury did Iron Eagle and Superman four and a bunch of other interesting Superman four okay, so look him up though. Sidney Fury is one of those guys that that directed a whole bunch of awesome films that were that were typically with numbers besides them, you know, yeah, but a really well respected director. He was a lovely man. I don't I'm assuming he's still around, but he was. He was older at the time, so this would have been late nineties.
And I went with Tidby, my buddy, and we we said, can we We're in film school right now, our second year, can we can we? It was the summertime, can we get a gig? And I said, well, we don't have any budget, but we're welcome to come and be a trainee volunteer trainee, and we're like, let's do it, you know. And it was it was a very quick shoe too is in like three weeks or something, and it was insane. Man. They had like four camera shooting at the same time
because it was such a quick turnaround. So it was it was nutty. And so we started to learn a little bit of the ropes and it's totally different film school teaching one thing. The real world thing is completely different. And hence where I learned immediately about the shame based learning thing. And we got bullied really bad, I I you know, and that's it was just a weird experience to go through. But Michael Dodicaf the American Ninja. I
remember the scene Marlee Matlin. You know Marley Mattin of.
Course, the Oscar winning actress from Children of a Lesser God.
Which was shot in my city, Saint johniey Brunswick.
Yeah.
Yeah, I've always heard she's a very sweet.
Interestingly, Marley Matlin was back. We were shooting that feature here in Saint John and the East Coast of Canada, and that would have been her second film here because she did Children of a Lesser God back in the eighties. Here was the scene and Michael Dudicoff's character was to come into the room. She was laying in bed and he was coming in with a bunch of papers. It was just setting up the scene talking to his wife. And so Michael comes in, we do he doesn't come in.
We do the slates because we had multiple cameras in this scene. There's two cameras going on, so my buddy Andrew had one slate. I had the other so camera a slate camera B slate and then we would tuck around the door and then Doudkuff would come running through and the scene would start. So he came running through,
all right, and he tripped over Andrew's leg. All the papers go everywhere, and of course the scene gets okay, cut cut, and Michael Dudicuff gets up in a rage and I'm just it's so bizarre in front and he pulls his leg back and wallops Tibby right in the stomach, kicks him. And the comedy of all of this is the American Ninja himself uses a ninja leg to kick
Tiddy in the gut. And you know, I talked to him to my buddy Timmy just the ed day of the story, and we laughed so much because it's like, who else can say that they got kicked by the American ninja? You know? But the what I recognized on that shoot that was so awful in so many different ways that nobody said anything, nobody a thing, and it
was the most inappropriate behavior it was. It was a little a little rage that the guy had and he didn't hurt Tidby or anything, you know, but it's just like symbolically, I was like, oh, this is we're in the union. Isn't there some union or something? So here's an interesting thing. Just to tie that story up, Sidney Fury at the rap party came up to me and said, boys, you know, great work. Sorry, I saw a lot of
a lot of people picking on you guys. Sorry sorry about that, but I really appreciate all the effort you put in to help me with my vision of my film. And then he found out that we were volunteers. And then as soon as you found out we didn't get paid, he stopped the party. There's a band plan and everything stopped.
The party got up on the microphone and was so pissed off, and he was like, he did this big speech to the whole thing and said, I just found out that those two guys that you guys have been so disrespectful to throughout this whole film, we're not getting paid. They were volunteering on my film to help me, to help make this a better film. And then he pulled out one hundred dollars bell and put it in his hat and he goes, everybody's putting money in here. So
the hat went around the room. Everybody put money in it. I bought it. I bought my first motorbike with that money. And here's the interesting thing that he said. Remember this feature was being shot here in my part of the country, so people that I would come to get to know. This is our first, my first film, so there's all new people. He said, you all of you have to watch out. Eventually all of you will be working for these two guys, so be careful with who you pushing
around and bully. Now, interestingly, the bullies on that set were the Toronto crew, not the local crew. The local crew were great. But that that prophecy came true because we did become producers, both of us in our own companies, and hired a lot of these guys. And but I really liked what Sidney Fury said. There is be careful who you disrespect, just on the on the basis of it's probably going to bite you in the butt down the road, right, And uh, I thought it was a
really cool of him to do that. Also, I rolled my eyes a bit, and I was like, funny that if we were getting paid, it was okay to get kicked by the American Ninja.
But to be fair, I mean many people would have been would have paid to get kicked by the American Ninja.
So that I mean, in a way, I suppose we did.
No like we're laughing, we're joking about it, but that that is is so on, that is so unacceptable. I've never seen physical violence from an actor to an intern or volunteer.
Ever in my life, let alone to anybody else on set.
Physical I've never heard much many physical fights, other than maybe amongst the higher ups. Like when the gods are fighting, that's one thing, but the gods generally don't fight with the with the mortals if you if you will in that whole And even as I'm saying that it's ridiculous, they're they're human beings. Just because they're at a higher level in the business doesn't give them more or less rights to hurt you or to abuse you.
It's not right.
Like we started off the conversation Scott Ruden, who is legendary for being a complete ass and and and literally torturing people, throwing things at people, physically attacking people, I mean, Harvey, mister Weinstein, and that he doesn't deserve the mister Weinstein, Harvey the ass. He was the one of the biggest bullies in Hollywood in a town full of bullies, and
and we're just talking about this kind of abuse. I mean, obviously the hole Me Too movement is I mean, that's a whole other level of abuse.
That you and I were guy in the you know, like like the fact that we felt it like if you're a minority, or if you're of a different you know, sexual orientation or a female, like everything stacked against you on that old school way of doing films. And think about where. You know, Hollywood is the birthplace of this culture. In those early days, we weren't focusing on businesses that are focused on jet you know, justice, equity, diversity, diversity
and inclusion. We weren't trying to create equitable workplaces and safe places. It was run by men that want to make a lot of money. And that's that culture continue. It's very hard to break those patterns, you know.
And no question, no, no question at all.
And I was I was lucky in the sense because I came up in Miami where I'm a man of color, I'm a Latino man, so it was there was like that's the crew. So there was Latino people there in Miami when big like bad boys would show up or Miami Vice like, there was.
You know, there was Latinos everywhere.
But anytime I rarely ever saw a female on set unless they were in a certain department, whether it be costume or makeup or something like that. Occasionally, once in a blue moon, I would see a female grip and
that always blew my mind. I've had female grips work on my set and it blew my mind because at the time, I'm like, man, she's got to be putting up with some some stuff, because I mean, if you're in the grip department, that's the arguably, and I've been in the grip department, that's arguably.
The roughest place to be part of.
It is the carneys. It is the carneys.
They eat raw meat.
I mean it is. I mean it is, and I love them, by the way. I love my grips, love my grips, and I'll be the first to call them out in front to their faces, like guys, you know, you guys are crazy. The only the only group that's crazier than the grips is the stunt team. Like the stunt guys, the stunt guys and gals. The stunt guys
and gals, by the way, argue really interesting. Female stunt women are more respected and more They're much more respected than any other area on the set for females because I remember having working with a stunt team and the female man. They the females were as respected, if not more so, for doing the stunts and because I guess I don'tn't know why, but it was.
But the stunt people.
I've never met a stunt person who wasn't twisted and weird it whacked out in their heads somewhere in the best, most beautiful way possible, because.
This is you get it. It's just like being an entrepreneur. You have to be you have to bet something wired.
You gotta be wired differently because this is this is this is a conversation as a director to a stunt person and or stunt coordinator. I'll go, hey, okay, I'll need you to jump off that ten foot beam. They're like, great, can I do the forty foot beam instead? We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. Every time, every time I need you to do one flip, can I do two flips and crash into the like they always are amping it up to a place and I'm like, the.
More to the screen.
They want to But that's that the beauty of the stuff of the stunt community. They always want to just and then sometimes us as directors and producer are like, nah, dude, you're not jumping off the fifty story building. I know you want to, we don't have the budget, Like no, no, no, I was kidding it and this is and then they'll always just like, no, no, I got a boy who's got the rig and the thing, and we could do that,
and we could do that. I just want it for my reel and I'm like, okay, dude, just it's wonderful. It's it's absolutely wonderful. I love I love I love my grips, I love.
My stunt teams.
But there's like I have to ask you though, Okay, So look, a lot of a lot of people listening now, A lot of people are young filmmakers coming up. Some of them are in film school, some of them are teenagers thinking about coming into the business. I put myself back into that mindset of where I was in that production company when I was coming up.
What do you do?
Because if you call it out or if you report it or something, and this is the reality of what we do. If you are called out as someone who just calls it out or reports it or creates problems, chances are that other production companies, other people in that area might hear about them like, oh, we don't want that person because they're a problem. And that's happened. I've seen that happen. It's not right, but I've seen it happen.
So what are the options in your opinion for you know, what do you do because you are in such a powerless situation because you want something that they want, so unless you go off and do it yourself like you did.
I just feel like we're living in a time right now, Yeah, right now, and Black Lives Matter, George Floyd, Me Too movement, all the stuff, even going back to Occupy Wall Street, like we're living in an era Arab's Spring, Like all of this is happening right in the last decade. And I feel that COVID has been this amazing line in history of a lot of people saying it's now or never to make the changes we need to make. And I got to tell you, like I'm involved with a
lot of those changes. Like really looking at how this white CEO of a very white company in a very white town is working at anti block racism, Like okay, well, how does that relate to your market? Well, we got to figure it out. You know, like ten years ago we wouldn't be talking like that, but we are now, I say, the business community, which is really exciting. I feel like in markets like in our market, Atlantic Canada, where the union isn't that strong. It's strong in Nova Scotia,
but not here. The union wants to grow, right I actually wants to grow. And so there's a little bit of influence in the non centralized markets to say, hey, happy to join the union, but what what what's the true repercussions of call and shout out? You know, like I think there's an opportunity right now to be bold and if the union is doing what the union is supposed to do, you're waiting for your you're up next.
So theoretically you shouldn't be losing your opportunity because you are, you know, following protocol because as we know, there's always a union rep on site. The problem is what if that union rep is the bully? Very possible, right, So anyway,
my my sign of hope is as you join. If you're joining the union, I think it's really your opportunity to become a leader yourself within it and and letting other crew members, understand your perspective of wanting to be treated fairly and with that's it, and you'll work your ass off to do it. So that's one thing. Another thing which is my approach, and this only works for people who've got the uh, you know, the ability to start their own businesses and I make their own thing.
But I feel like what I did was I created a new company called Hemming's House and we do TV shows, documentaries and a lot of commercial, brand brand film work too. And I've created a set culture, a filmmaking culture that's that you can thrive and be safe. And we've had a few mishaps and we dealt with it appropriately, and we've we've changed the culture of of this this this
world here. So if you're starting out okay, and you think the only way to get in is by joining the union, getting on the big future sets, why not consider finding another company that's small like ours, right, really learning your trade really well in a good culture, small company.
And sure it's not you're not working with the big actors and the big producers and all this sort of thing, but you're cutting your teeth in the process, and you're understanding how people should be treated now it takes time to do that, of course, but consider going into smaller areas to really get your first your first uh, because if you think that that bullshit culture is the way it should be, because your first experience in is like, oh, this must be the way it is, okay, And if
you accept that, you will also probably adopt it unless you're a rebel, uh, you know, and even if you're a really good person, respectful yourself, you're gonna adopt it and you're not gonna call it out when your colleagues do it to other people because it's but it's the status quote. But why we're creative people. We shouldn't be we shouldn't be living with the status quote. We need to be pushing it. And you know what sad to say for some people, that old way of doing it
is become archaic and unrelevant. So give the industry ten more years those old you know, I'm going to generalize here, the old guys that are whipping c stands and and
abusing other people in the culture. If you are like that, now, you just wait until the till the younger producers are growing up that are have been you know, brought up in a world where we are discussing ways to be respectful on set and in business, you're not going to get hired, you know, it's just And then once the union bosses become the ones who are have a little bit more conscience and understand how sets need to be. And you know, I think the union, I think about it.
I actually because I was a union I was in, it has the opportunity to actually lead the change. I don't know how long that would take. It's a big beast, right, but the union could be the solution if enough people had the nerve to chip away at it, you know. So anyway, those are a couple of my my ideas. And by the way, not all film sets and and experiences are are awful. Like there's no absolutely respectful sets. I just personally, it was on a lot of buh B films, a lot.
Of lower budget No, the lower the budget a lot of time, the lower the budget, the less professionalism there is, and the and the less and and the less experience there is. And there's a lot more ego involved and a lot more in security involved and all of that stuff.
Climbers got the climbers who will climb at any right, So yeah, yeah, so got to be aware of that, and that's why I guess that's my advice. And the other thing is to not take it personally, you know, uh must but do something.
Yeah.
Absolutely, I agree with the person because you're you're your key grip told you your piece of drunk. You know.
That's yeah, I know.
And I think that with with what's going on, what's got root and what happened with Harvey Weinstein, if these kind of you know, juggernauts in our industry can be taken out, there's hope for the rest, for the rest of the people. Go wait a minute, there is opportunity
here to get for change. There is opportunity that people are gonna take me seriously if something happens, because I mean, look, you're talking about Oscar winning massive guys worth billions, like Who've generated billions of dollars for the industry, and all of a sudden, just you're gone, like Scott Ruden is gone, Brett Ratner gone, Brian Singer gone, Kevin Spacey gone, They're gone, And there was a you know, I remember, I remember when I was running when I wrote my first book,
Shooting for the Mob, which is my experience of the ultimate abuse, which is an ultimate of physical not sexual, but physical abuse and psychological abuse. I think in my world at least of a mobster threatening me on a daily basis while I'm chasing my dream and meeting all these big high profile directors and that and producers and actors and stuff like that. Going through that journey. I heard about the stories when Me Too happened.
This was really funny.
When Me Too happened, my buddies would call me up in the industry, like, who do you think is gonna happen?
Who do you think is going to happen to next?
And I go, oh, it's gonna be Brett Ratner, It's going to be Brian Singer, It's going to.
Be Kevin Spacey.
And they're like, how do you know.
I'm like, on two thousand and one, I'll tell you the stories. So when I was running around in two thousand and one, I remember we were going to meet with Kevin Spacey's people and in Kevin Spacey and this is like literally I was meeting all the big stars in town at twenty six, working with this mobster and making this movie about his life. So it's screat By the way, anyone who hasn't read that story, please I will. It's a fascinating and listen to the audiobook. It's even
better because it's me doing voices and it's hilarious. So I go the agent at the time, agent or manager or representative of some sort. They go, listen, when you meet Kevin, understand that he just likes to grab guys balls when they first meet him.
It's a handhe.
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. What And I was like, I was twenty six, I'd already been in the business a while, I've been directing a bit already, and I was just like, I was like, is this real?
And it's not like Kevin was in the other room.
This is like we were setting up the meeting and my mobster guys, if that guy grabs my balls, I'm.
Going to kill him. And that was the end of the meeting.
And that was the end of the potential of working with Kevin Spacey. But then we heard stories about Brian Singer. I've heard many stories about Brett Ratner. He's legendary in that sense. So I saw all of this coming and and then I'd call it like five days later and like they got Kevin Spacey, like, how'd you know? I'm like, dude, dude, It's just And the funny thing is that everybody in the business knows. Everyone knew that Harvey win Stein was a bully. Many people in the business knew that he
was doing what he was doing. A lot of people knew what Scott Ruden is and who he was and how he did business. And there's a lot of other producers and directors out there who are are are shaking in their boots because like, oh man, I'm screwed.
I mean, you know who Joe Picka is, right, yep.
Everybody, even me, the puny pa in Miami, heard about Pika stories. Joe Pitka was one of the most successful and I'm not sure if he's still doing it or not, but was one of the most successful commercial.
Directors in history.
He directed space Jam the movie because he did all Michael Jordan thinks he was the Nike stuff. He was a huge director, but his stories were legendary of the abuse that he would put his cast the agency. He would break people's arms playing basketball because he was a really big, like six foot four, you know, imposing figure, and.
I would hear, you would hear.
And that's like the that was like the Boogeyman on some of these commercial sets.
Like Joe Pitka's Gonna Get You. It was like, you work with JR.
Picka, and like the group was like, yeah, I work with Joe Picka. He had me running, He had me running in the desert.
I almost died of thirst.
I'm like Jesus Christ, how did this man do it?
But that was the business. That was the way things were done.
So consider a considerable world, in a world where water.
Is wet and ice is cold.
I'm not speaking to try to sound like I'm any more woke than anybody else, but consider a world where movie sets are more so run by women and people of color. Let's just consider that for a second. And trust me, there's lots of bullies in those two communities as well. There is, I'm I'm not pretending there isn't,
but breaking that paradigm, that that that power shift. In typical cases, women run projects differently, you know, absolutely, And like he's thinking about the oscars now, finally starting to give the nods to the you know, at least they're coming to the table right, And are we going to see that every year more and more and more women
and people of color starting to rock the scene. And what's going to happen to all these these these luddites if you will like there, if they're all driven by ego, it's going to crush them to know they're not going to be relevant anymore. We think about that whole cancel culture thing, but it probably sucks to be Kevin's spacey to be canceled. You are no longer relevant in our pop culture. Thank You're done about it, You're done. So I just I'm excited to see more diversity in our space.
You know, coming from a very very white guy right here, but it excites me to know how the seismic shift that we will be able to see in all forms of this industry, as you know, as the old way starts to be hospiced out.
Yeah, And the funny thing is, thinking back on my commercial sets, I almost exclusively used women producers and it was weird. I didn't even think about that, But I've always been just drawn to women producers. I just like the way that they not that there's I've had men producers as well, obviously, but I did a majority of my commercial work were I always worked with the same
women producers because they ran sets differently. It was a different energy about them, and I just I just identified with that kind of energy a lot more, uh sometimes, and I've kind I've had wonderful experiences with you know, white white men producers and African American producers and Latino producers.
But you're bringing people to the table. That's the thing. It's not about canceling white white male talent.
It's no, of course not.
It's like, let's let's let's have it much more round it. My company, we've got uh, most of our producers are are are women. I'm going through uh some diversity training right now as we speak, uh with that really cool company out of California called Hella uh Impact, and uh they're going through this Jedi training, which sounds so cool.
Well as I SEEO behind you, Jedi for justice, equity, diversity and inclusion in the in the context of leading business, you know, and we talk about this at the beginning, and it's just really cool to uh, you know, to be able to check our our you know, check my white privilege if you will, on the back on the back burner, for a second and realize that we've been successful as a result of incredibly in just systems, including
racist systems. And uh, I'm learning all this stuff, you know, and which means I'm really really excited to now that we do have over gender parody. Like at my company, there's more women than men, but most of the crews guys. And I'm really excited to start getting more women into the training system in the crew side and the camera departments, grips, et cetera. And also people of color as we as we as we diversify and and really hack the system and see and prove that we can actually build a
great storytelling company. Uh that's in the mold of what you and I have been complaining about for the last hour.
Yeah.
Absolutely, And I've you know, anytime I have a chance to have a female director on to to talk about their process and what they've gone through. I had a wonderful author and female director named Naomi Jones McDougall Jones, who wrote a book all about women in Hollywood. Wrote the book about how they are treated, the numbers, the stats, who's it was fascinating conversation. But you know, and again everyone listening it's not about cancel culture. It's not about
you know, just throwing people away. It's about trying to open open up the idea, the the inclusion of everybody's ideas. You know, the white male or the male story perspective is not the only one, uh, and bringing all of those kind of people to the table, it just makes it's it's like only cooking with pepper and salt, and that's all you cook with.
There's so many other.
Spices and there's any other spices that you could throw in that make it a lot more flavorful and a lot better in so many ways. But you know, we started this conversation as what can we do to change this abuse culture that is ingrained in our business has been for decades. I think it started that way. Yeah, I'm sure was that way from the days of Chaplain. You know, when anytime you have people in power, there's always abuse, always any place, any place, any the industry,
any society. If you have somebody in power and someone that's not in power, there is always abuse.
Unfortunately, that as part of the human condition, that is part of it is.
But now we're hopefully changing that at least within our sets and Hopefully you guys listening now, especially if you're young and coming up, understand that there are options and
you have opportunities. And I think you would agree they have kids coming up today have opportunities that you and I did not have, like being able to buy your own gear, being able to start your ownroduction comp at twenty one and just start shooting music videos or shooting docs, or just going out there and making content or building up online presence, like none of that existed for us. We had to go through this system and navigate it.
There are options now for people like yourself, like you're like, you know what, I'm gonna screw it. I'm going to make my own company, and you can do it, and you could do it anywhere in the world that you're listening from.
So I appreciate you coming on the show.
Brother. I'm going to ask you a couple questions. I ask all of my guests, what advice would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today.
I love that question because I get that question all the time your parents. It's funny because in this generation of kids, it's never the kids call it call it it's sometimes it is and I okay, there's a piece of advice right there. Don't get your parents to call us to say, hey, what's up. Like in the film industry, is it's something that my kid can thrive and they
want to make a movie. If you're twelve years old or eighteen years old, find a way to get in touch with a producer or anybody in the place that you want to be and just get some time on the phone. Most people will be thrilled to speak to you, and you can do it yourself. Like you don't listen. Nothing against having your parents lobby for you, but I think it's a thing. It's almost it's very much an
eye roller. We want to see initiative, you know, we want to see creativity, We want to see a personality, right, we want to see respect. Because when you're jumping into the into the film industry, certainly the way Alex and I have, you're not necessarily being hired for your creative brilliance. You're being hired because you can be a really trustworthy, reliable cog and wheel.
And you can very nice.
By the way, that's a very nice, very nice way of saying that cog in the wheel that there's other ways that could be mule, donkey, heavy lifters, you know, grunt, but the cog and the wheel.
There's other names that are I'm not going to writ because we're done with that culture.
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show.
If you are if you can work on a farm, you can work on a film set. You know. You if you can work, if you can join cadets and and go, you know, work in the military, you can work on a film set. If you work in a janitorial uh, at a you know, at a hospital, you can work on a film set. Yeah. And so it's not about the creative brilliants and producers, aren't They don't really care if about your last short film. Uh, they do.
They want to make sure that you're reliable and that you're that you're going to be good for the culture. And perhaps that's the hack to get in, you know, the hack is, you know, we're living in a new generation where there are we're now becoming the old guys now, Alex, I hate to say it, where I'm learning so much about this new generation my employees and my staff or whatever, you know, from young people, and I appreciate learning from
them because my ego was kicked out of me years ago. Right, So I'm a lifelong learner and culture changes, you know, And I'm supposedly making documentaries and films that an audience wants to see, and I don't understand them at all because I decided not to care about their language and the way they want to be respected and all this sort of thing. So many people make fun of millennials and you know, in the next generation, and but you know,
that's the audience. What are you doing not trying to understand their culture or the way they speak and the way they want to be spoken to. So you, as a young person can actually come in and find those right bosses if you will and say this, I want to help you create a culture that is rich, creative, efficient, and lean and in a way that's more people like me are going to want to come and work for
your company or work on your sets. And I'm speaking in the context of out of the Union, because the Union has its own system which is very efficient as well. You come into a trainee and then you work your way up. Awesome. So if that's if that's what you're gonna do, I would say the exact same advice. Find someone else's in the union who's been in it for a number of years and pick their brain. You know,
make sure you know what you're getting yourself into. And if you're ready, it's be prepared to volunteer a little bit. It might not have to be the case, but if you're working with smaller companies or even like part of a film co op or you know, a short film competition, you don't get paid on those, but you get great experience. So the more experience you get in film culture as far as the mechanism of how it set culture, yeah,
and set etiquette. And when I was some of my early films, I used to stand in front of the light and I was the cameras training and I'd stand up and I'd be like, hey, guys, you need a lens. And so they'd call me a flyboy or something because I was like a fly tractor little light all the time. Those are things that you learned, said etiquette. Right, if someone doesn't tell you, you learned the hard way right.
Right, and hopefully it's not an abusive way.
It's hopefully in a fun way, like calling you.
Fly boy, right and exactly that like talking to people. I don't call myself a veteran in that world because I only spent a few years in it, but speak to veterans and say, hey, what are some of the areas I will fail at in my first year? You know, that's a good advice. That's good advice to ask, you know, and people will like you for that, like if you asked a key grip, Hey, I want to get into grip in the grip department, But where will I fail? And then let me know like some of the hacks
so I can get around that. And then they're going to love the fact that you showed an initiative you and ask the question in the first place. Right, long answer for you, Alex.
But fair enough, good answer, great answer, great answer. Now, what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn, whether in the film business or in life?
Yeah, oh so many. One is just really important. Again, I'm coming talking right now from the entrepreneur perspective, is surrounding yourself by people who are better than you. So and this is a really good lesson for directors, for
aspiring directors and producers. But it's okay if you're a director and for you to hire a first a a d who is way more experienced than you, and it's okay if you have to be the you know, the key of a Caaron apartment and you and you're hiring other people on your team who are actually way better
DPS than you. The more people you surround, the more you surround yourself with people who are better than you, and the and the less ego you've got, less pride, the more you're gonna learn, and the and and the quicker you're you're gonna thrive if you if you do this on your own and try to hack your way through being the best on earth, a good chances can fail. So I've surrounded myself by way better filmmakers in my company,
way better dps, way better editors. And I remember when it happened, like I was the filmmaker at the beginning of the building this company for a good four or five years, and then once I realized that my crew were becoming because they were doing it all the time I was trying to grow a business, and I was like, geez, you guys are there now, like you guys are now the products you know, and I know it was trippy for a minute, and I was like, okay, well and
a good advice one of my young employees told me. I thought was great. He goes, Greg, You're always going to be a great creative director, a great filmmaker. But what this, this is my my employee is saying this to me. What we need from you is to go out and do what you're doing, what you're best at,
which is making friends and selling us more jobs. And hearing that was really it was tough on my ego, but he was right because if we wanted to continue grow in this company and doing cool projects, we need an executive producer that was going to go go fishing. And that's and executive producers go fishing for money by curing solid relationships, trusted relationships. So my job at my business is to create trusted relationships. And that's that's what I do every single day.
And last question, three of your favorite.
Films of all time?
Sweet Hereafter?
Yeah, I remember that movie.
Yeah, that's a good a beautiful Canadian film and the soundtrack was great. It was so good. I would say I have to say fire walk with me. David Lynch Wow, a huge Twin Peaks fan. During during you know those times and let me see here. It's always a tough I absolutely loved Eternal Sunshine. I love Virgin Suicides. So I'm failing on answering because there's so many great films I love. But I gotta give you one more David Lynch film, which is Elephant Man. Yeah it struck me,
it really did, because Linch is just weird. Usually this is not a weird film. This is a sad, heartfelt, emotional film. And if you haven't seen Elephant Man, you got to see it. And yeah, so I going to give you those four or five films as kind of my inspirations, and each one of them have a reason why I absolutely love them.
But yeah, very cool, Greg Man, thank you so much for coming on the show and helping us shed a little light on a problem that needs to be discussed. It's not generally discussed in public very often.
James that and you're doing a great yourself.
I'm trying, my friend, I'm trying, So thanks again, my friend.
All right, Alex tears Man, thanks.
I want to thank Greg for coming on the show and really shining a light on this problem that is abuse, verbal abuse and people being taken advantage of on sets in productions and in this business in general. So Greg, thank you, thank you so much for that. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Forward slash four thirteen. Thank you so much for listening to guys. As always, keep on writing
no matter what. I'll talk to you soon.
Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting dot tv.