You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to IFH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number three twenty nine. Why couldn't you just put the bunny back in the box? Nicholas Cage Khan air broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft.
It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof
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market and studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a reader that's used to reading tempole movies when your movie is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars and we wanted to focus on that At Bulletproof script coverage, our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WM E, NBC, HBO, Disney, Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by
professional readers, head on over to cover my screenplay dot com. And I was able to get a legendary filmmaker on the show. He is arguably one of the best action directors of his generation. We have on the show today, director and producer Simon West. Some of his films are The legendary Khan Air, The General's Daughter with John Travolta, Laura Croft, tomb Rate, Expendables to The Mechanic Wild Card with Jason Statham, and many many more.
Simon is an absolute master at creating amazing action sequences and really fun and entertaining
action films. And Simon I have a fantastic conversation about his origins, how he was trained so so young in so many different disciplines before he ever really set foot on a major film set, and how he was able to deal on his first big budget film with Jerry Bruckheimer and kN Air, how he dealt with all the testosterone on that set, how he was able to create all of those amazing acts and sequences with no CG or very very minimal CG, and so so much more. This is such a fun conversation, guys,
so sit back and enjoy my conversation with Simon West. I'd like to welcome to the show, Simon West. How you do a Simon very well? How are you? I'm doing great, my friend. Thank you so much for coming on the show. As I was telling you earlier, I've been a huge fan of your work from the beginning of your feature world, and I actually seen some of your music videos and commercials as well growing up.
But you know, there's very few action directors to do action like you do, so I'm excited to get into the weeds of your journey and of your process. So first question, my friend, I have to ask you, is why in God screen Earth did you want to get into this insanity that is called the film industry. Well, I never really had any other idea of anything else I wanted to do, and you know, from about
twelve years old, it was quite serious. But I have to say I was really fascinated by film from like three or four years old because my dad had an old Super eight camera and projector, and it's one of my earliest memories of him putting the screen up in our kitchen and projecting you know, home movies and just the fascination of seeing the moving image on this screen in a dark room, you know, with the dust melting on the bulb,
and the smell of it and the smell of the screen. And I still have that screen, and every time I open it, it's the same old smell takes me back to like being you know, four years old and seeing
the home movies, and so it stuck with me. So when I hit twelve and I was sort of you know, could do something about it, I got you know, a paper round and saved up my money and bought a little Super eight film camera, and then it was all about saving up money for the film stock because in those days, in a one role of film that was two and a half minutes long cost about the same as two
music albums, so it's really expensive. So I never had a music collection growing up, because all my friends, you know, would have albums and collect vinyl and I never did because every penny I say went on movie film, you know, to make my little films. And so I still don't really have a music collection. I mean, I've just about started to do, you know, Spotify playlists and everything, but I've never owned physically a music collection, and I guess nobody does now everything is this virtual. So
but yeah, so it was. It was one of my earliest memories.
It's the only thing I ever wanted to do. I sort of started earnestly making stuff at twelve, and then when I got to sixteen, I joined a I heard about a film club in the next city to me, which was Oxford, and they had sixteen millimeter film equipment and they were mostly you know, graduates or postgraduates, and you know, I went along as this sort of gorky sixteen year old kid, and they taught me to use the sixteen mill equipment and so I started just shooting that myself, and I went
out on the streets of London and into the you know, the subway and shot things down there. And I started shooting musicians who just played on the street, you know, busking for money. And I sort of combined music and film quite early on in that way, and then I was sort of interested in the musicians, but I was also interested in the way music played with film and it was always very you know, evocative to me. So even though I never had a music collection, I always associated you know,
music and film the imagery together. And I managed at eighteen to talk my way into the BBC and their film department. And at that time there weren't really there was one film school in England, the National Film School, and it was really hard to get into. You had to be a graduate or postgraduate, or you had to have been a journalist, or you had to
have gone on a expedition through the jungle. You had to offer them something quite exceptional to get in, and the only took twenty five people a year, you know, which was a tiny amount. So I didn't think there was any ants of getting into that. But luckily the BBC took a you know, there was one guy there I think that sort of saw a bit of himself in me. That was this sort of precocious film bratt who knew
everything about or thought they knew everything about film. And I certainly knew a lot technically about how how it worked, and you know, I could talk endlessly about film. And you know, I've been watching Trufau films on you know, my little black and white portable in my bedroom from you know, twelve years old. So I knew about, you know, different sorts of cinema out there in American cinema, French cinema, English cinema, and but
I also do technically how to do it. So they kind of, you know, one of the questions was like, well, we don't usually take people of your age. You know, you have to usually be in your twenties at least to get in mid twenties, and they said, well, what are you going to do if you don't get in. I said, well, I'll just apply again. I'll just keep applying until you let me in. So they just obviously didn't want to be stalked or you know, for the next ten years. So they let me in and they trained me.
So I got was training by the BBC in every department that was great at that time. They taught you film, editing, photography, and everything about the lenses, everything about the lighting, how the sounder has recorded, how the sounds mixed, everything technically, and then they send you to every
department. So I started in documentaries. Then I went to drama, and then arts documentaries and news and current affairs, and they just rotate you around and then when you find an area that you like, you can you know, apply to stay there. And I ended up in drama obviously because that's what I wanted to do, and I work with some you know, great directors under them. When I was there, was like Mike Lee was there
at the time, a film who does very improvised drama. So I kind of, you know, tapped into that and realized how you can work with actors to get so much out of an actor rather than just sitting in your room, you know, bashing out the script yourself, if you actually get a group of actors together, you're going to come up with something really cool.
So he taught me a lot of that. And then also there was the traditional BBC dramas which you know, Sherlock Holmes or Bride and Prejudice or you know, anything to do with Dickens or you know, Emily Bronte all that sort of costume drama which are very traditional, and then on the other
hand, this sort of improvised drama from Mike Lee. And but also I learned a lot from working in documentaries and New and Current affairs, because documentaries taught me to make a story out of what you actually ended up with, not what you hope to get. We'll be right back after a word from
our sponsor, and now back to the show. Often you plan a movie or filming and you it's going to be perfect, and then you're going to get all these great sequences, but what you actually end up with is sort of if you're lucky, it's, you know, fifty percent of what you set up out to get, and then you've got to make the best story you can add of what you actually ended up with. And documentaries is like
that. You turn up, you shoot, whatever happens, and then you look at this pile of stuff and you go, okay, how can we make a story out of this material? So I used that a lot in my filmmaking, you know, that that sense of don't don't stress too much about what you were hoping to get, just try and make the best of what you did actually get, and some of it's better than you planned,
you know. And then the other thing that was in current affairs. I mean I worked on a news program called Newsnight, which is still running that went out at eleven o'clock at night, and you'd sit around all morning waiting for stories to come in, and then the afternoon the story would come in and you'd be editing all afternoon, and then you know, you'd still be
mixing the sound and everything as the show started. So quite often, you know, you were running down the corridor with the film under your arm as the anchor was announcing the film and they were throwing on the machine and pressing go, and it just made it. And that taught me not to panic, because again, when you're shooting, things go wrong, you know,
and sometimes you're under a huge stress. I've been in situations with gigantic stunts, you know, some pretty famous ones on you know, in films like conn Air and everything, where I've had two hundred stuntmen, a full sized airplane, a full sized building that's supposed to collapse, and it's all supposed to happen in one go. I've had seventeen cameras running and it's something has gone wrong and you just can't panic, and you can't you know, crumble.
And that sort of broadcast news as it were that I worked on taught me how to you know how to keep a steady head in the situation like that happens. So it's so it's fascinating hearing your story is that it looks like you went through almost a boot camp early on, very early on, and covered almost every aspect of the tool sets. You picked up so many tools that you put in your toolbox that your director's toolbox. By the time you started to actually direct, you'd have been doing it in a sense for
a long time. These skills like the broadcast news which which doesn't specifically, you know, translate the cinema, but yes, it does translate the cinema. So it kind of you were kind of being groomed, you know, by the universe if you will, to do the kind of films that you are doing have been doing throughout your career. Yeah, you know, I was very lucky in that sense that I did end up and it wasn't just
then. It was later when I went through music videos for a little bit, and then commercials particularly, which then give me another set of skill sets and experience. And it's flying hours. You know, there's that old adage, you know, be an expert, you have to do something for ten thousand hours, and so if you can arrive on set, you know, with ten twenty thirty fifty thousand hours of flying time, you're going to be
in a much better position. I mean, I started in editing, which is particularly lucky because that is definitely a great learning for directors how to construct the story and how what do you actually need, and how you can cheat and how you can you know, give yourself some slack and not have to shoot every single thing you think you need because you know in editing you can
you can help. And so editing was definitely a great start. And then you know when I went as I said, those there's various you know BBC situations. Was that one set of experience. But then when I went into commercials, you know, that's working at a very high level all over the world. So I would be up a mountain, you know one day, then I'll be underwater. Then x I'd be you know, hanging out of a helicopter or racing cars or and then I sort of moved towards I guess
what it was. I particularly look, how do I get into feature films? It was like, so I looked for role models and so in in
England, all the big directors went through commercials. So it's Ridley Scott, Tony Scott, Hu Hudson, Adrian Line, Alan Parker, all these guys who ended up making films in England and then Hollywood had gone through commercials, and so I deliberately targeted commercials because it was a very high end kind of training and in especially in England, they're very kind of big budget, glossy, very well made, often better made than the shows in between them.
You know, at that stage. You know, TV was very cheap and cheerful in those days in the UK, but the commercials were very high end. You know, it's caught up now of course, you know, TV is as as good as movies, if not better and sometimes. But so I targeted those type of people and that thing. So I ended up making a test commercial I shot. I deliberately shot a music video for a band
and I put in I put in a little story in it. So I had to do the typical playing the instruments, and I was never, you know, a big music video director. It was really you know, a way of paying the bills while I got into commercials and then into movies.
But so I deliberately made this little story in the in the music video, and then after I'd done that, I took it out and I cut it down into a test commercial and I had this you know, test commercial that which I sort of took with me when I got on the plane to the States. And the company I was working with in London had an LA office and they said, do you want to try and work out through the LA office because there was no work in the UK at the time, was absolutely
dead. So I went over with sort of four hundred dollars in my pocket and this fake commercial and started you know, touting it around and it sort of started to get interest, and by sheer coincidence, it was sort of comedic. It was a funny. It was a fake comedy beer commercial. And so then I started just getting off for comedy, which was very comm venient in a way because it was it was the commercials that had actors dialogue.
It wasn't just cars driving through pretty forest and mount into models on the beach. It was you know, it was a little story in itself, so I could practice my my art. And so I just started doing comedy commercials and they got you know, bigger and bigger, and then ended up sort of doing super Bowl commercials for you know, the Budweisers so like bud Wiser frogs, and then the Pepsi commercials, and they started to get a lot more attention. And you know, these were you know, the big
budget. You know, they're spending as much as you know, an independent, little independent film on these thirty second commercials. So again, you know, I got used to having the big toys as it were, but it still wasn't a movie. You know, it's still only thirty seconds. It's still not a movie. So I'm still desper and hungry to get into the you know, legitimate filmmaking. And and of course with the with the high
profile Super Bowl commercials, I started getting calls from the studios. And so I got a call from Columbia offering me a romantic comedy because they obviously thought, oh, well he does comedy, so we'll do that. And then I got a spy thriller from a UK company. And then I got the call from Jerry Bruckheimer, you know who said, you know, I've seen your commercials, are really impressed and coming in for a meeting and let's you
know, talk about possibly making a film together. And circles, I you know, rushed into that and had the big meeting with Jerry, you know, on the giant desk, you know, and that you know, in some ways the rest is history, but it was, it was, you know, it was an awesome meeting, and I had to He basically had a wall of scripts behind him. It was in the days when scripts were printed on paper and every producer would have a stack of them in their office
with the titles of them. But Jerry didn't have just a pile. He had a wall of them. You know, there's probably a couple of thousand scripts. And he turned around and he pulled three off, which it looked like it was random, but I'm sure he knew exactly which was pulling off, and he threw them across the desk and said, look read those this weekend and tell me which one of the one you want to make as a movie. And two of them were so well, they were all action films
basically, because that's what Jerry did, you know, he did. He did those type of films. Two of them are pretty straightforward, you know, I felt, you know, a bit cliched kind of action moves. But the third one was was a film called conn Air, and I read this and it was quite a small film. It was like a character driven film. But the characters were so good, and even the names of the characters were cool, like Sally Grunt Dance and Cyrus the Virus, and you
know that it just hooked me right just for reading that. I would have done it just for the name of the characters, basically. And so I went back and I, you know, I turned down the romantic comedy, I turned down the spy thriller. And I said to Jerry Lot, I'm out of these three. I want to make conn Air. And he said, well, it's a you know, it's very small film, and we
need a summer blockbuster. So you've got to go away and turn this small character film because it was written by Scott Rosenberg, who did you know, Things to Do in Denver when You're Dead and Beautiful Girls, which were fantastic but very small, you know, beautifully you know character. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show based
films. And this was the same thing, and Jerry wanted a summer blockbuster, so I had to go away and sort of invent all these big events and sort of blow them up and make them, you know, larger than life. And just every couple of weeks i'd go in, he said, you know, you've got to make it bigger, make it bigger. And so I just you know, I had a field day just going in and such thing. Okay, how can we make this thing even bigger and more
ridiculous than it was before? And and that's that's what you ended up with. That's why looks like that. No, it's fascinating. Kinder is one of those films that it's just one of those movies that sticks. It sticks with you for I mean, especially with that generation. When I came out, I saw it in the theater and and it's it's you know, it's built a life up up on its own over the years, and you know, there's there's so many legendary stories I hear. I heard. I heard
Danny Trejo. I was watching a recent documentary with him, and there was a story of him being on set with kN Air and there was obviously a lot of testosterone on that set, a lot of testosterone, and all the actors are trying to you know, like, oh, I'm super tough, and I'm super tough and I'm super tough, and Danny was quiet in the
corner, and Nicolas Cage came up to the group. Because it was all of them sitting around trying to one up each other and how tough they are and how scary they were in real life, and Nicolas Cage came up. It was the only one I'm scared of is Danny. And Danny hadn't said a word. And then he's like, what I do? What I do because it was that look that he had, things like good, I'll say here, ironically, Danny was like the sweetest guy of the whole group to
deal with. You know. It was like an inverse proportion the tough you were the nice you were, you know, and it was it was it was all the guys that never been near a prison were the ones that were or fight or even a fight for that matter. Yeah, I mean anything.
But you know, but you can imagine this. There were four hundred men in the desert for like three months, and I think there were like at that time, there was only two women on the crew, and it you know, so it did go a bit crazy because you know, you get four hundred guys in the desert and nothing to do in the sun beating down on you. Everyone did go a little bit apocalypse. Now, now,
how did you how and how do you? You know, on a film like that, you know, it's your first big Hollingwood production, You're working with Jerry Bruckheimer, this is your dream shot. So I'm assuming there's some pressure on you. Yeah, you've got You've got fifty thousand hours. You've got fifty thousand hours of airtime, there's no question. But you're at the show. This is the show at this point in your career, and
if this fails, it's over. It's over. Absolutely well. I mean I had done fifty thousand hours, but short hops, you know, between you know, local local flights. There were you know, the longest shoot I've been doing was you know, two days, three days. This was one hundred days shoot, and so by day thirty I was, you know, down and out. I'd hit the wall. I was like thirty days because it was a giant production, and you know, I was naive.
I went in thinking, oh, this is this is completely doable. And it was around day thirty that I just went I'm not sure if I can make it to the end. But you know, after a while, you sort of buckled down and it becomes a day job, and you start to think this is this will never end anyway. I'm just going to do this every day for the rest of my life. It's so long, there's so much work with you that it's a very odd when it finishes because you suddenly
takes you by surprise. But yeah, there was a lot of pressure. I didn't realize that because I was naive to you know, move. You know Hollywood and films that they have the studio has a list of your replacements already drawn up before you when you start filming. So if in the first two weeks you completely screw it up, they already know who they're going to go to replace you with. Really, yeah, afterwards, but you know
I would be I would have felt even more pressure other than that. But I mean, you know, they protect you from that, so they don't want to, you know, completely crush you. So you know, but it was tough getting people to take you seriously with the first film of that size because some crew members I had worked with in commercials, you know, so they knew that I sort of knew what I was doing, but a lot of them, you know, it was like, who is this guy.
They've given this massive film too on the first thing. So a lot of people I did have to, you know, come up against and go, you know, well, this is it is what's happening, and you know, you know, this is my first film, but you have you basically have to follow the orders because they've given me this responsibility and we are doing this. And so I'd say, you know, fifty percent of people
were very supportive, and then fifty percent were a little tougher. Really yeah, And that's and that's something that a lot of directors directors don't understand when they first get on set, is that when you know, I remember being the youngest guy on set as a director, and and and you know, the dps twenty years older than me, or the grips are twenty years older than me, or the productor and then and they all have this experience and they test you, and they and a lot of them they just feel like,
oh, this kid doesn't deserve this shot. Things like that. So I can only imagine at your level the kind of I mean, this was a lottery ticket. Someone literally handed you. Jerry handed you a lottery ticket, and I'm sure you had to deal with it. How do you overcome those egos on set, those that kind of those kind of barriers when you're working with crew members, maybe even keys, you know, like your DP or like your productions that are or you know, keys who are fighting against
your vision as a director, how do you handle that? Well? Luckily, I mean I didn't have that situation because I you know, I brought my own DP, my own production designer, and so my core crew were people I knew and trusted and supported me. And it was it was more the peripherals that were, you know, you you'd come up against. But
all I could do was do a professional job. And also, don't don't have any ego, because you know, I think that's what gets people's backup is if they sense that what you're doing or what your decisions are based on ego rather than what's best for the film. Basically, everybody there is a passionate filmmaker and wants the best film possible. And you know, that's why
people go into the film business is because they're really interested in it. And I was, you know, I love the idea when I did a big, complicated crane shot, you know, and it took a while to get that I'd run over to the monitor to see how it went, and I'd look around and there'd be twenty people looking over my shoulder, because you know, the grips wanted to see if they did a good job, the camera focus wanted to see if he did a good job. And and everybody,
you know, actors came in to see what they've done. So everybody basically wants to do a really good job. So it's look, if they sense that you're the same and you're just there to make the best film, then they get whether you've done five films or no films. And and it's only if it's if a director brings this ego on set and and it's trying to demand respect through you know, position or you know, and and it's just flexing muscles, and usually you know, it's a it's a cover insecurity.
I think, you know, when they're panicking and they don't know what they're doing, and it comes out as ego. And it's the same with difficult actors. Usually I found the actors that are really talented, and luckily, you know, I came in at a very high level, so I'm I'm dealing with, you know, people that have won Oscars and who have got thirty years of experience and have done and these people are very talenting and operating
at a very high level in their field. And when people are good at something, they're usually very secure in it and and so they're they're not you know, they don't they're not difficult. It's it's usually when someone's very insecure in what they're doing and think they're faking it or they think they're not very good, that they end up being a problem because they're sort of diverting attention
from what they think is they're failing. So I haven't you had a problem like that with all those big guys you know where there's Nick Cage or John Malkovich or John Qusep, all those guys. I didn't have a problem at all because they were very good at what they did and so they were very
comfortable in playing in that world. And also we created a really you know, it was a fun It was a fun film to make because you know, you get to say those great lines and all these actors, which basically independent film they're you know, they were used to doing costume dramas or little indies in motel rooms and suddenly they're on this giant film set and Malkovich has got a pump action shotgun in his hand and his shouting you know, crazy
lines, and they're having the time of their life, so why would you be? And also they're being paid four times more than they've ever been paid because you know, Jerry's got the massive checkbook. So that's how I ended up with such a great cast is because Jerry just said, just pick all
your favorite actors. And when you've got that huge you know, big brother of him and the studio behind you, you can no one can say no really because it's a really fun, you know enterprise, it's great script, and they're being paid handsomely that everybody is there, you know, for a very good reason. They're having a really good time. So it wasn't as bad as people think, like suddenly you've got twenty big actors. They're all going to be complete pain in the ass. You know, occasionally one person
has a bad day or something like we all do. But generally speaking, you know that everyone was enjoying it, and you know, I mean it's still waiting around. To be honest, the work is never the problem. That's when people get, oh do I have to wait another you know, for this lighting or this set or the stunt to be set up. The actual acting they love to do. So as long as you can, you
know, give them an acting to do, they're they're happy. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. So I have to ask you that there's one scene in Sun and Connor that I there's many, but there's one that I really have to ask you. There's a stunt and I think I know it's practical, but I have to ask how the hell you did it, which is the plane dragging the corvette
in the air and smashing into the tower. Yeah, well that does practical, right, Yes, mostly because the thing is that you know, can remember when it was made, there was cg around, but it was very expensive and it was like, you know, it was only Jurassic Park and people like that could afford it and or to make it look good. And I was always a you know, devity of doing it for real and in front of the camera and seeing it. And so there's almost no CGI in
the cone. It's all done in front of the camera, either full scale or we did do quite old school miniatures. Actually a lot, a lot of fun. So you know, we did we flew a real plane over Vegas with smoke pouring out the back of it, and there were endless phone calls to you know, the police of people saying there's a plane crashing over Vegas and it's and it's you know, smoke pouring out of it. So
you know, we did things like that for real. And then we actually did for the you know, hitting the hard Rock that was a massive model. So this beautiful scale model that was probably thirty feet across of this plane into a you know, a thirty fifty foot version of the hard Rock guitar. And we built the whole Vegas Strip in miniature on Vaney's Airport, So you know, we had all the buildings with miniature neons and they're all about, you know, twelve feet high, and we had radio control cars going
up and down the strip. And then oh, I mean it's absolute, you know, right for a kid in the sandbox kind of field. And then a lot of us real We had a plane that actually drove down Vegas Strip. It had a bus in it. They gut it out a real plane, put a bus in it, and they could actually drive it. Down, you know, Vegas Strip without any wings on it and hit cars and things like that. And then the final one, the final one was
another player. We had about three real planes, and the final one was the one that crashed into the Sands Hotel, which you know, it's kind of a well known story, but Sands was going to be blown up, and you know, I originally was going to. I wanted to hit the casino opposite the one with the volcano, and because I wanted because it had a big lake, and I wanted to crash the plane into the lake I
had, and then it go underwater. I had a whole underwater sequence worked out, and then it would hit the volcano and the volcano would explode, and it was all going to happen. And then Steve Wynn, who ran that at that hotel, showed me round and I saw how the volcano worked, and I sure how the water pumps work. I saw every aspect that we planned it all that, and then he said, just send me the
script, you know, and for the final sign off. So I sent him the script and then we get a callback and said, oh, you can't crash into our you know, I think this script is too you know, we're a family organization, because at that time, Vegas was trying to portray itself as you know, as a family resort, and so they didn't you know, the bunch of criminals crashing into the thing was not what their image wanted to be at that time. So he said, sorry, but
you know, we can't do it's bad for our image. So suddenly had no location. But then I was reading the La Times on a Sunday and I saw that they were blowing up the Sam's Hotel in a few weeks. So pulled him up at the last minute, said, look, can you delay blowing up the hotel for a couple of weeks while we build a whole set in front of it and put a huge plane on a ram and send
it into you into your casino. And they agreed. So, you know, there was a mad rush to build this rig where a full sized plane was rushed down a ramp into the Sands Hotel, and as we were building it, they were slowly nibbling away at the back of the casino, knocking more and more of it down until it was just you know, the front part left. And we finally got it done in time, and it was a one shot. Yeah, that was one of those classic Hollywood you know.
I couldn't shoot it in parts like you would normally do with an action film because there was one plane and there was one casino. Once that plane was moving, there was nothing going to stop it. So that's when I had the seventeen cameras all hidden in bushes and inside the plane and inside the casino, and you know, we and you know, the night came and they closed off the strip and five thousand people lined up to watch it, and they pressed the button, you know, as the sun was coming up,
and this thing went down. The fifty ton plane went down the ramp and the cable that was pulling it snapped at the last minute, and it just stopped on the edge of the ramp, on the ramp, and it was teetering, and if it went over, it would smash itself to bits. And we couldn't even those they'd buy another airplane, certainly not in that time or anything. But luckily, it just sort of stopped and teetered on
the edge and didn't go over. So we had to sort of de rig de rig all the cameras and come back the next minute and set it all up again, and but you know, most of those things we're done in camera. That the corvette hitting the town, everything in that sequence is real, apart from the act the wide shot of it being dragged through the air, because that was kind of aerodynamically impossible. It would have just hung down and that probably crashed the plane or something. So that's the only CG shot
in the whole thing. Everything else is either really in a full size reel or miniatures. That's that's absolutely insane. So I have to ask you. I mean, as directors, you know, we always there's always that one day on set that the entire world is coming crashing down around us and we feel like we're never gonna make it. It sounds like every day was like
that for you on Connair or in many of your the movies. Is there any any days that stood out at situation where you're like, oh my god, I don't think we're gonna make it through this day and what was that thing and how did you get over? And it could be on Connair or any of your films. Yeah, well, I mean the Path and that one thing there that was was but I guess there was, I mean, it did happen a lot, you know, because we were doing complicated,
fiddlyly stuff that was in camera. We couldn't fix it with CGI or painting out and things. It had to work. And I think there was another incident on corner I guess which was the fire truck sequence at the end.
There was supposed to be in Vegas, but I think Vegas was so sick of us by that time because we were moving from street to street and blowing stuff up and rashing, and they said, look, you know, they sort of stopped us giving us permits basically, and so we had to sort of scuttle back to La and and I had to sort of they do this sequence, this fire truck scenes where you had to hide that it wasn't Vegas I and I couldn't, as I said, now, you would just paint
a CGI city behind it. So I thought, well, how can I hide that I'm in La? So I think, well, we'll do it in the tunnel. So I went to the like the third or fourth Street tunnel, which number is, but in downtown La. Of course, there's a no tunnel in Vegas at that time. But you know, we've we've
fudged that. We said, okay, this is this is a tunnel, and and I said, we'll have the fire truck, you know, race through this, and and in the city said, okay, you can have from ten pm two midnight, because in fact, no I think it was it was five p m Till ten pm because of the noise and all that
something. And so it's basically had five hours to shoot this one big stunt, which was basically Diamond Dog on the motorbike getting dragged into the standing on the back of the fire truck and Nick Cage's on a police motorbike and he right into the back of the fire truck, jumps on the fire truck and the motorbike explodes on the back of the fire truck, taking out Ving Rams
as Diamond Dog. And it was all set up. And the idea was that by this time we were sort of down from the usual seventeen cameras. I only had seven cameras for this because we get to the end of the shoot and you're starting to run out of money, and and it's it's slightly smaller stunt, but it still was a one off thing, and it was the fire truck going in the tunnel, the motorbike being dragged into the back
of it on a rig, and then the explosion happening. And I had seven cameras set up, and of course the cameras get set up, you know, nice and quickly, they're all in position, but they rig the complicated rig to do this. We can't start ringing until five o'clock so and we have to be off the street by ten. So the special if X guys are building the rig. They're putting the cables in there, putting the explosions, the explosives in there. They're you know, rigging the bike,
they're rigging the fire truck. The stuntmen are practicing, and it's going. It's going five o'clock, six o'clock, seven o'clock, eight o'clock, nine o'clock, and we've got to be off by ten. Every hour, I'm going to the special exs are you ready? Are you ready? And they said nearly, nearly really and and I swear on no kidding, five to ten and we're supposed to be off at ten. He said, okay,
we're ready, and and so then all hell breaks loose. So the camera guys are all over by the coffee truck because they've been standing there, you know, for you know, four and a half hours doing nothing. So they're all eating you know, donuts and coffee. They're not next to their cameras. And the guy, the guy, the stunt in the fire truck has fallen asleep. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the shelf, because you know, he's been sitting in
that truck waiting to go for five hours. And so the ad, the first assistant don't, picks up the radio and says down the radio because we've got five minutes to do this. The radio to the guy the stung. He shouts down the radio, are you ready to go? And the stung all he hears his go. He waited up, pushed his foot on the accelerator and heads off down. And this thing is is all automatic. So once that fire truck's rolling, it's also dragging the motorbike that is rigged to
explode when it hits that. There's no stopping it once it's going. So the so I rush over to the monitors and shout the camera guys, you know it's rolling, it's rolling, you know, go go go. So they all start running from dropping their coffee cups everywhere, running to the cameras, and out of the seven camp out of the seven cameras, some of the like one gets an operator gets there but no focus buller. Another one
gets the operator and a focus buller. Then there's three cameras that are rigged on the actual truck and the motorbike that are all rigged to one button, and an assistant runs over, presses that button, and those three cameras go. So I go, okay, I've got three automatic cameras. I can see those running on my monitor. I've got one camera on a crane that's that slightly out of focus because there's no camera, there's no focus pulling on
that one. And I've got another guy that has an operator and a focus. So I've got I've got as four good angles. This is going to be all right, you know. I'm supposed to have seven, but I'll settle for four. And this thing is racing down the road and at that moment, the first assistant runs down the road trying to stop the fire truck
going stop stops stop. So there's the assistant camera on the three cameras that were on one button, here's the words stop and presses the stop button on the three cameras, so I went from four and a half cameras, so now I'm down to one and a half cameras running. And just as he does that, it happens that the motorbike hits the fire truck. It explodes, boom, I've got I've got one shot and one slightly out of focus shot. And that's what's in the movie, you know, And that's what
you have to do. You have to go. You gotta roll, you gotta roll in it. So it's and I'd love hearing stories like this because so many, you know, so many young filmmakers coming up, they just like think, oh, you know, Harleywood is a big budget movie. Everything's running like a well oil machine. Shit happens at every level all the time, because filmmaking is one of the most complicated situations, and everything you
do is the first time it's been done in that particular figuration. Yeah, we've all done stunts and shots a bit like that, but it's never been done on that street with that amount of equipment and that right, and so it's a sort of handmade. Everything's handmade each time, you know, and and you know, you know, and it's it's difficult. So it goes wrong, you know. So let me ask you. You've I mean, you've directed so many amazing action movies and action sequences throughout your career. What
makes a good action sequence? Like, when you're conceiving the construction of an action sequence, what is what are some key things that you constantly are looking for when you're building it? Well, yeah, I get asked that a lot by you know, young filmmakers coming up. We want to know because they watch a lot of action films and it's hard to die, you know, discern what is better about some of than others in some ways, or you know, is it a bigger explosion, is it the you know,
the you know, the more hits in the fight. But to me, I was telling them that basically, with an actions it is you've got to tell a story that's within it's the works within itself. So you have a whole film that you're telling your story. You're beginning, your million, middle, and your end. But you should do that with every action sequence as
well. So and make sure the audience understands what's supposed to happen in the action sequence, because I think sometimes people thinks just like if we shake the camera a lot. If we have a lot of chaos and it just goes on and on and it's really loud, then that will be satisfying. And that, to me, is not a satisfying action sequence. You know, you want to have a lot of cause and effect because you've got to understand, like your hero needs to get from here to there, and these are
the obstacles in the way. And you know, this is the first obstacle that hits and you know, have you shot this in the way that the audience understands what that obstacle is and then he is clever or physically you know, has enough prowess to get past that obstacle. But there's another one coming another, and you you know, do you have three five depending? You know what kind of sequence is. But to me, the cleverer, you know, the clever of those obstacles, and the cleverer the way that he
overcomes them, the more satisfying it is. But you've got to understand it. That's the thing you've got. The audience has to understand. Oh, he he was victorious in that moment. Oh but okay, but he's not going to be in this because I can see why this is difficult and you know, I think one of the good ones I think I would say for
students to watch is is Terminator two. There's some great, great constructor because you know, James Cameron is like me, it's a bit nerdy on the technical stuff and likes, you know, it likes how the physics works of an action sequence and how the practical side, like what would happen if if a truck flipped on its side like this? How far would it slide? If it's slid and then it at one end of it hits something, how would it spin? And how would you know what's a cool way to get
out of the way of that thing spinning? And so you can use if you're a bit nerdy about physics. Action sequences are great because they're all about cause and effect and you have the sort of emotional journey of how does the hero overcome it? But you can also have the For me, it's more like you know the mechanics as well as the mcgiver of it. You know,
it's they set up a problem, how do you fix it? But I think you know, if you watch something like you know the sequences in Terminator too, that's a really good lesson you understand every single thing that happens in it. Nothing's too you know, obscure, or too fast, or you don't understand what happened, or it happens for no reason. Just like
there's an arbitrary something arbitrary explodes for no reason. There's something only explodes if it explains how that thing you know, you know, fired into it and how why did it catch fire? And then when it caught fire, what did it then do? So to me, if you took out an action sequence of an action film, you should be able to understand everything that goes on in it. And it could it could play as a short film. You know, you should be able to take the action sequat and go,
here's here's my two minutes short film. And you know, what do you think of the story? And you should understand it now. You know, you also worked on another another film called Expendables two, which, man, when I heard you were on board for the sequels, like this makes this makes sense? This makes sense because I know Slide did the first one, and you know, and and I mean social slone's a legend and you know as a writer, as a director, I mean, he's he's a walking
legend. How was it? I went to This is the thought that went through my head when I heard you were on it. I'm like, okay, this makes sense. They need someone like Simon to deal with the testosterone that's on that set. I mean, you're talking about Van Dam and lung Grin and Sartzenegger and Willis and and and stay them and all these guys. How did you approach directing that kind of I mean, some of those guys are absolutely legends and some of them are just just really big action heroes.
How did you approach because it seems like so massive an undertaking, just dealing with that and then also trying to tell the story and also trying to one up the action of the first one and so on a software Yeah, yeah, well, I mean the first thing was sort of, you know, getting past the Sly of it all, because because I you know, I met Sly you know, and had you know, had lunch with him, and I said, look, you know, are you okay with me taking
over this because obviously you know what you're doing, you know, and but I think the first one nearly killed it. So you know, when you said, you know, if you're writing it, directing it, starring in it and you know, it's just a lot to do, and you know, and he's throwing himself at it full. I think he just didn't want to go through that again. And he said, no, no, you
know, it's your film. You do what you want. And he you know, so he said, I'm just an actor on this, and so you know, and I said, look, I don't want to screw up your franchise. You know, I don't want to. You know, you set it up the first one and I come in and you know, put it, you know, in the trash can. So you know, it's probably more pressure than you know, a normal studio higher because you know,
the guy that started it is on the on set every day. But he was really supportive, you know, and he would come on set and go, wow, this is great, this is a bit set, this is better than the first one. This is great. And I think he was so relieved not to have to solve all the problems and not have to you know, do the hours. And he enjoyed being an actor on it, you know, And so he gave a very relax of the funny performance because he was enjoying it. And and I think we know, in terms of
all the others. You know, there's definitely a pyramid on set with Sly at the top of it, so you know, I used that kind of the Sly you know power to you know. So it was never a problem because if Sly was happy, everyone was happy because you know, they all look up to him. He is the godfather, you know, of that world, and so he got he gets a lot of respect for them. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. And so they were as good as gold, you know,
they were. They were like very well behaved and because because Sly, you know, he did never had to, but you know, the inference was there that you know, if anybody stepped out of line, they were going to get the Sly slap. But you know, and then you're gonna have you know, Rambo, you know, screaming in your face, and you know all these other characters Rocky Rocky, Yeah you do you want Rocky and Rambo shouting at you in your face. So, no, they were,
they were good. And also they were you know, like a lot of like like music bands that you know, bands that were big in the eighties and nineties who were coming back touring now, they're happy to be back because they probably didn't enjoy it as much as they should have the first time around because they're so busy trying to be successful and trying to deal with and knew,
what's it like being a movie star and all that stuff. That they get a second chance to come back and they're going to really enjoy it and appreciate it because they went through all that once. But the fact to be able to do it again, you know, not many people get to do that in their you know, later years. The thing that was they did
in their youth, that was there, you know, defined them. So they I think, you know, they were having you know, a really good time just to be doing it again, and so it was, you know, it was fun for them. So yeah, so you've never had an issue because I mean I've heard of other directors who work on sets with directors who they're directing and just as alone, let alone the person created everything around it and also a legend and also all this other stuff. So you
it sounds like you never had any slide. Slide was just like I don't want to deal with it, just I just want to do what I do. When you have fun and it's long time, and hopefully hopefully it was I was doing a good job and that was maybe hopefully it was he was you know why he was you know, kind and respectful was because he could see that it was going well. I mean, I think if I'd been like, you know, up, I would have heard about it very quickly.
But yeah, and and also I have found I've directed a few yeah directors and producers in the past, and I found actually they're actually very easy because they know the pain you're going through. They go like, you know, I'm not going to give this guy a hard time because I know what it's like when an actor gives you a hard time. And I know he's got fifty other things on his brain this morning, and he's got you know,
budget problems, and he's got he hasn't slept for two months. And so I've found people that have been behind the camera actually treat you much better than people who have no idea. And I've done it the same myself when I've gone in front of the camera for like little cameos or something for other people's films mine, and I've looked at the camera, and I've looked at the lights, and I go, oh, my god, how did these
actors do it? This is really hard, you know, and you get and you get, you know, suddenly you you cut them a lot more slack because you realize how confused using it is to be on the other side of the camera staring at two hundred people and lights and you know, and you have no idea who's standing behind you or next to you, or it's very confusing. So I think it goes both ways to it. But I
actually I directed In The General's Daughter. I directed John Frankenheimer, and you know who was a hero of mine, and it was by sheer chance that he When I was shooting that film on the Paramount Lot, we were doing a night We built a giant tank that the Paramount lot. Their whole parking lot is a tank. So what they do is they tell everyone to not park there anymore, and they have a sky drop behind it and you can
actually flood the whole parking lot. And we were a night shoot, so we built a giant tent over the parking lot and put our you know, Savannah set in this swamp that we built in there, and John Travolta is in there having a big fight, you know, and doing water work. And because there was everybody that visited the Paramount lot for a couple of weeks,
they see this giant black tent where they used to park. So all they would do, they'd come up to ten and they poked their heads through to see what was going on. So every day there would be different people poking, and you know, like Robert de Niro's head pokes through. Then you know, I don't know, like all the you know, famous actors, producers, everybody wants to know what the hell's going on in this black tent. So we've got I wish i'd taken a camera, you know,
set up a time lapse if everybody's coming through this hole. And anyway, one day it was John Frankenheimer and he knew Masonwfelt, the producer, so he came in and had a chat and I was looking at him and he was and we would and I needed this one part. It was a a senior general in the army. But it was only one scene. It was only you know, one and a half page scene. But the guy had to appear very important and a lot of weight. And it's the sort of
thing you do want to call in a favorite. You know, if your pals with Robert de Niro al Pacino, you go like, can you come and do me a favor and do one scene because I need your GRAVI tests. But I was looking at John Frankenheim and this this staturesque guy was like six foot five or something, and he was very authoritative. And he's one of those old school Hollywood director who's a huge shouter and a big you know
guy, and he's done all these amazing films. And I thought, well, I wondered if he would do it, and so I asked him and he said, yeah, you know, I'd do it. He hasn't really done any acting, or much acting, I don't think, but he agreed to do it. And he came on set and he got in the uniform and you know, had the hair and makeup done. He said, and you know, how do you want to shoot this this page and a half of dialogue, this long speech. And I said, I really want to
just do it all in one shot, so no cutting. He said, what? No cutting? Oh my god, you know I've got to learn the whole thing. I said, yeah, if you don't mind, I don't really want to go cut, cut, cut, you know, it's really important to be like one shot. And so he said, oh my
god, I've got to go and learn this. And I said to him, I said, look, you know, I hope you're okay with me directing you, because you know, this is only my second reform, you know, yeah, and you've you know, would winning Oscars before I was born, and you know so. And he said, no, no, no, it's his great as you know, it's your film, is your film. And again on the set I was directing me in the seat. I said, look, I hope you don't mind me saying, but could
you just, you know, move over here and do this. He said, yes, yes, yes, no problem. And he said, gosh, it's really weird. He said, you know, all I want to do is please you. I've never been in that position before, you know, because he's a huge director that everybody wants to please him, and he'd never been in the position he wanted to please somewhere else. So it's very sweet. And then you know, great performance as well. That's that's remarkable.
Is there anything that you wish someone would have told you at the beginning of your career that could have helped you you know that that one's a little bit of information. You're like, oh, man, I wish I would have known this, you know. I mean, there's no secret, you know, magically. I think it's it's like we're all, you know, exciting worlds, whether you're you know, a rock star or a secret agent
or you know, making movies. I think is to try and appreciate it at the time because all those incredible things you do, you're so busy stressing at the time and trying to It's sometimes it's hard to step back and go, wow, what we're doing is really cool here, and this is so I think it's to try and enjoy it along the way because you're so busy being hard on yourself. And I don't know, maybe maybe that's not possible. Maybe everything would turn out terrible if you did relax and try and enjoy
it. But that's what I would have told myself. It's look, you know, it's it's probably going to be okay, So why not relax a bit and enjoy it rather than you know, beating yourself up that you've got to work harder and harder, and you know, and it's but I haven't you know, you can't do the experiment the other way and go back and say, like, if you did just kick back a bit and enjoy it,
would it would everything have turned out the same way. I don't know, Well that's I mean you were saying that it would, you know, like Schwarznagger and Willis and all these kind of Chuck Norris and all these kind of guys that came back on unexpendables too, where they just they probably had a ball because they were probably not stressed. I like, I'm not the star of this lies dealing with that. I'm just here to have a good time and shoot some things, say some cool lines, and hang out with
my friends, you know, smoke some cigars. Yeah, And I mean I have to say I enjoy directly much more now than I did when I started, because because I do, you know, you have less to prove, I suppose as you go on right, and and also it's like you've been through all those sticky situations and you usually get out of it somehow, and so there's a you get a lot more confidence with age and experience,
and so I definitely enjoy it now. Rather before it was like a task that had to be achieved and to win the fight and get it done. Now I can actually enjoy the process and you know, so you know, it comes with experience and doing it, you know for a while. I suppose well, I mean you've got more than fifty thousand hours now. I think the trick is not the you know, not fall out of love with
it. I do know some people that you know, fallen out of love with it and are really miserable, you know, and are miserable to be around on the set because they don't like it anymore. And but you know, they're sort of wedded to it. But I think if you don't like it anymore, you should definitely stop doing it. But usually making everybody's life misery. But I you know, I definitely like it more more I do it. So it's you know, and I've been and it's and it shows.
It shows in your work that you you know, the movies that you've stayed consistent since Connor. I mean you've been working every you know, you pop out your your your output is is pretty good. It's not like you do one movie. You're not at Kubrick. You don't do one movie every eight or nine years. I mean, you're you're constantly working whether in television or in this you're always working, so that's you can tell that you love what you're doing. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
and now back to the show. Yeah. Yeah, well that would be really frustratingating. I mean, I'm a huge Kubrick fan, but it would be really frustrating for me to know that I was only going to do a film once every five, six, seven, eight years. I would be, oh, you know, heartbreaking, because there's only so many films you can make in a lifetime. And you know, sometimes obviously you know,
some are better than others because whatever reason. But you learn something on everyone, and you know, I think making any film is better than staying at home. You know, you're absolutely right. Now, I'm gonna ask you a few questions, ask all of my guests, Ammon, what advice would you give a filmmaker trying to break into the business today. I would just say, don't turn any opportunity down, you know, don't be too like
I have to make this kind of film. I have to because I you know, I, as I said, I went through all these different types of filmmaking, from current affairs to documentaries to drama, to you know, everything, music, videos, commercials, and I would say, just try and shoot as much as you can on anything, whether it's on your iPhone or you know, with friends, and any opportunity a friend says, oh, you know, I want to be an actor, but I need someone
to shoot me doing something. Go and do it. Don't go nod he's not very good, or you know, I haven't got time, or I'd rather do that any opportunity, do it, because any connection you make with someone else who's also in that world can leap frog to another connection. And every anything you shoot, it gives you a little bit more experience and a little bit more like, oh, I know, you know, like I really want to do sci fi. All I want to do is sci fi.
I'm going to shoot. And then someone said, can you come and shoot this little comedy short film for me? And you shoot the comedy? Go, Actually, I really enjoyed that comedy. Maybe I'll maybe I'll do
some comedy, you know. So I would just say shoot as much and as often as you can, and don't be too prescuous, don't sit around for the perfect situation, and you know, and and work on films in any way you can I mean, I you know, worked in props and art department and sound and camerasism on other people's films for a day here, a day there, and it's kind of fun. You get to learn other
people's jobs, You meet other people and and work for free. So they'll have you, you know, so they'll have you back, or you know, there'll there's a reason to hire you. It's because you're free, you know, and just work as much as you can and take every opportunity to shoot anything you can. What is the lesson? Uh? What what did you learn from your biggest failure? Oh? Yeah, I mean what I guess what I learned is no failure, it is total. You know.
What I mean is that is that every every disappointment or failure if you want to call it, can be corrected to a certain extent in some way. I mean, that's the beautiful thing about filmmaking. Like a sequence, you know one an angle doesn't work, you cut to another angle. One you know, an actor doesn't isn't great. You know, in a performance you can make the performance better through editing. If there's there's always a way.
So I don't think any failure is total. And also, you know, there's that whole theory that you know, you obviously don't learn anything until you fail at something you know, and so you shouldn't look at any kind of failure as a failure. It's more like a you know, a learning experience. But also none of I don't for me, I don't know, it's
lucky order, but I never treat any failure as a total failure. It's it's always can be, you know, dragged back, and to be a ten percent failure rather than a one hundred percent failure because you can you can do something to fix most things, you know, situations. Now, what is the lesson that took you the longest to learn, whether in the film industry or in life. I think it's pacing myself. It's like not rushing.
You know. The hardest thing in filmmaking people don't realize it's time management, because you can make a fantastic film with unlimited time, and it's time. It's not even resources. I mean, if you've got a camera, that's basically what you need in the waves were calling the sound. But if you had unlimited time, you can make the world's greatest film if you've got the talent. But you know, every film you're on is a time pressure.
It's like you're constantly doing a deal with this stuff. If I if I take longer on this scene, I've got to take time off that scene if I you know, if I rush this scene, it's not going to be makes sense for the story. So I've got to allocate my time, and every minute of a film, you know, a professional film is accounted for. You know, you're supposed to do a certain amount of work per day, you know, per hour, and you have to stick to that
plan and that schedule. And that's very hard in an artistic endeavor to be so dictated to by time management. And that's the that's the hardest thing is to okay, the discipline of saying I've got it as good as enough because I've got to get on and get all these other things, when really, you know, it's very rare that directors in the position where you just can keep going and keep going and keep going until he's absolutely satisfied, because that's
not a real world situation, and you know that that's hard. But I mean, yeah, but the opposite is like, don't be panicking about time or something. So I would is I think I've learned it's not to rush and take a time because you know you can make a bad decision if you rush. If you just take a couple more beats, you can make a better decision. And but it's it's that balance of don't rush, but you're
still got to hit those time you know, deadflins. So you've never so you've never heard the term, You never heard the sentence ever uttered to you, Simon, all you have is time and money, have fun. That would be nice, Yeah, that would be love. I mean, yeah, but you know I have I do have questions, you know like that. But you still you know when they're scheduling, whether they say, well, well, how one would it take you to shoot the scene? And
I go, well, how long will you give me? Because I could shoot it in two minutes the length of the dialogue, or I could spend two weeks shooting the most incredible version of this scene with you know, every conceivable angle and like beautiful lighting and take waiting for the sun to be in the right spot. I mean, how much will you give me? You know, I just need as much time as you're willing to give me, you know, and I'll make it work with what you've got to a certain
extent. And last question, three of your favorite films of all time? Oh well, I mean there's so many. I hate that question because it's three as hard to bring down. But I mean I do love, you know, films that I grew up with, and films at different times in my life, so you know, sort of in my sort of teens. There's a film called With Nail and I with Richard E. Grant and Paul
McGann. It's a small comedy about two struggling actors in England and not many people in America and know it because when I do mention if people go and I haven't seen that. But in in the UK it's a kind of a cult you know. I've been on I've been on sets in and the camera crew will recite lines from the film to you because it's it's a cult film. But yeah, so I will I try to encourage all Americans to see this film because it seems to be very well known in England but not in
the States. But it's called With Nail and I. And then films, you know, I said, different stages of my life and these are not necessarily you know, great classics. I mean, I love all the big classics, you know, the David Lean movies and everything like that, but that you know, everybody does, but films that meant a lot to me. You know, a different parts of my life with things like you know, when I was very young, uh would be Chitty Chitty Bang bang.
Yeah, Like the fantasy of that to me is a you know, magical, magical there's six or seven you know old with me of that would I thought that was the most magical thing ever, and that would that was the sort of thing would get me into filmmaking, is the fantasy because to me, filmmaking is taking into another world. And you know, because I have to confess, I don't make very realistic films. You know, they are you know, they are quite fantasy and larger than life an operatic because I
kind of want to be taken to another place. I you know, I don't necessarily, I mean, you know, I watch other people's very great realistic films and love them, but my my world is a bit more ridiculous in a way. But you know, and so then you know, and then that was you know, my five or six year old me getting into film, and then the twelve thirteen year old Me was a film called Swarp Melody, another English film that was written by Alan Parker and directed by Warris
Who's Saying and produced by David Putnam. And it's a It's again. It's a small film set in a school in London, in a kind of a rough part of London, and it's all sort of actors. There were eleven and twelve and it was just my life, you know. So it's the first time I went to the movies and didn't see Sames Bond, you know, jumping off a cliff for you know, snow at the Seven Dwarves doing
something. You know, this was my life. It was kids at school but very realistically shot, and they're getting up to all sorts of mischief and they're really you know, route to adults and they're kind of like but it's very sweet and so it's the sweetest soundtracked by the bags, which is not the strongest point, not the strongest point, but hey begs a very great Yeah, they're great, you know Saturday like fear and all that stuff. Yes, but not in this but but but the rest of the film is
great. So I'd have to say like three films they're not, you know, as I said, the big epics, but they meant that something to me at different ages my life, you know, and so that's where they're importantly. So when I say favorite and I'm gonna go, I'm talking about I'm gonna watch them again now, because I mean you're going, I mean, as you were talking, I'm like, what was the film like when I was coming up, like an eight, nine, ten years old?
We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show and the obvious one Star wars Et all those kind of things. But there's something like Never Ending Story by Wolf Wolfgang. You look at that and you're like, at that moment, you know, that was a very powerful movie, you know, to me, and those kind of things, it's you know, I've heard, I've heard the greatest. You know.
Some people are like, oh, I loved Under the Dragon, and I'm like, I loved Under the Dragon too, But is that on your top three? It's like it is. It meant a lot to me when I saw it when I was twelve. Things like that. So it doesn't all have to be Godfather exactly. I mean, I've watched Godfather, you know, I know how many thousands I got it on every format ever made, you know, and I still watch it on TV with the commercials when it
comes on, you know, because we're ridiculous. How why do we do that when we could literally just get up grab our blu ray other than And that's happened to me multiple times, and I'm like, why am I? I mean, it's just too lazy to get up. But it's such a good film you don't want to waste that thirty seconds to it. So so
yeah, those those epics are fantastic. But I think a film that means something to you and also that probably led you know, people like you and me into the business, you know, means even more because it's you know, it's what we ended up doing. So Simon, it has been an
absolute pleasure and honor talking to you, my friend. I know I can talk to you for at least another five or six hours, but I appreciate your time, and thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your your knowledge and your experiences with the tribe today and continued success, my friend. I can't wait to see your next one. So thank you so much, my friend. You're welcome. Love you to talk to you. I truly want to thank Simon for coming on the show and sharing his knowledge
with the tribe. Thank you so so much, Simon. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Ford Slash three twenty nine. Thank you so much for listening to guys. As always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcasts at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.