You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to IFH podcast network dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof screen Writing Podcast, Episode number three zero seven. Writing is easy. All you have to do is sit at a typewriter and bleed. Ernest Hemingway broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you the craft and
business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. Now. Today's show
is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. Now. Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you are in the goals of the project you are, so we actually break it down by three categories micro budget, indie film, market, and studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a reader that used to reading tempole movies when your movie is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars and we wanted to focus
on that. At Bulletproof script Coverage, our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WME, NBC, HBO, Disney, Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers, head on over to cover my screenplay dot com. Well, guys, Today on the show we have Oscar winning screenwriter Alex Blanaris, and Alex is one of the creative forces behind the
remarkable Oscar winning film Birdman. Now, Alex and I sit down and have a very deep conversation about what it was like coming up, how he turned down working on very big movies with some big directors, where he almost got ousted by his agency, how he got his agency in the first place, and what happened when he was asked to be a writer on Birdman, and so much more. This is a inspiring and educational conversation. So sit back,
relax, and enjoy my conversation with Alex Delaris. I'd like to welcome to the show, Alex Delaris. How you doing, Alex, I'm doing well. How are you? I'm doing great? My friend well, first off, great name. I'd like the first name. It it works. I think I think it means leader of men if you look at That's what my mother used to tell me. Yeah, from Alexander. Of course your mother would tell you that because you're Latino, and that's what my mother would
tell me as well. That's right, that's right, I tell you. It's a really funny thing right now. So you know my relationship with my dear friend and my director alesand calls me, never calls me Alex always calls me Tokayo her namesake, right, And then I was producing films with the two directors that I'm now developing films. Are talking about this later anyway. One of them is her name is Alex from Chicago. Right now I'm doing
a Colombian I'm producing this Colombian artist film. Her name is Alisanda and her director is Alekandra Mahia. So every time we're on the call, you're like, which Ali Alex three, Alex two seven, Alex is? We have no idea who's who? And growing up I couldn't meet one Alex. But now they're everywhere. I know they weren't as popular back then, but listen Man. Thank you so much for coming on the show. I've been a fan of your work and what you've been doing outside of obviously Birdman and other
things you've done as well. But my first question to you, sir, is how and why did you want to get into this insane insanity that is the film industry. I mean I sort of backed into it a little bit. I grew up in this tiny little town called East Rockaway, Long Island, and I had a movie theater across the street from me, one of those big old movie there is called the Criterion, and it was one of those ones back because I'm I'm I'm old now, so I'm talking about like
late seventies, and it would one movie theater, big curtain balcony. They played one movie. If it was good, they played it for six months. If people were coming, like they'd never change. And my house wasn't the greatest place for me to hang out in, so I used to sneak across the street and just sneak in a movie theater and watch movies all day. And that's when I fell in love with movies. So I was like ten years old and I was watching movies like Cramer versus Kramer and you know,
Great Santini and Justice for All These were all my favorite movies. They didn't Rocky Too and stuff like that, but I was watching anything that was there. So then in high school I fell in love with theater, and for one second it was going to be a theater actor. And then one second later I knew I wanted to direct theater. So then I studied theater. And I had a weird life. Man like I had a weird life. I didn't. I had some tough times, but I found myself in
a little university in North Miami called Barry University. Oh yeah, I know Barry very well. You know Barry. There you go. Well, I was at Barry for two years, and then I came back to New York because again I was a total mess. But I was studying theater, and then I was in the restaurant business because I had to make a living. And one day I wrote a script for a friend and somebody saw it and liked it. Next thing, I knew, people wanted me to write instead
of do anything else. And it was easier to do when I was working in the restaurant business because you could get home at two in the morning at right. You couldn't get home at two in the morning and direct anything, you know what I mean, I couldn't for the time off. And then my scripts just got Danny Ayello is actually my fairy godfather. I know if you know, Danny rest in peace, Danny the unbelievable actor from Do the Right Thing and Moonstruck. And Danny got a play of mine and fell in
love with it and said, who the hell are you? I need to work with you. And we did a bunch of readings and he was like my fairy godfather. And then he got me to Johnny Planko, who's a very famous manager who handled like Lauren McCall on, Peter O'Toole and all of you. He asked, yeah, I mean more like Anthony Quinn, Paul Schrader. Now, I mean it's amazing. And Johnny, because I was doing a play with Danny who represented, said do you want a manager?
I was like you He said yeah. I said, you're You're the only person I would be the only person on your client list that I didn't know. And he said, nonetheless, I think you're going to be good. And he signed me. Got me to Cia. CIA, got me Alejandro, Alexander Yantidu and I did Beautiful Together, the first of our dem movie. I wrote a four drafts of that before I eased out, and then we got back on Birdman and the rest is history four films and then the
rest of my film stuff. But I've done plays and Broadway and stuff as well. That's how I got there, That's how you got them. So it's it's interesting because so many, so many people listening right now are still, you know, working in the restaurant business trying to get their scripts made. But you were also in New York at the time, right, so it was a little difference. Kind of like I always tell people, if you want to get hit by a car, you got to go where the
traffic is. That's fair enough. Yeah, and New York and LA are kind of those two places. Would you agree, I would agree. I mean, eventually you have to find your way there, because if you're going to creep up into a writer's room or if you're you know, you can write scripts from anywhere and submit them and but yeah, better that you're mingling,
meeting somebody sees your staff. Of course, your your analogy is right, Yeah, And it's interesting that it's it's this this business in general, there's oh, you always need to have like a Donny Brasco style person, not an Italian, but I'm saying, a person who vouches for you to give you some sort of credibility to open a door. Like Daniello was your
guy, was your fairy god, you know father. Essentially he was the one and when people said, oh, if Danny's looking at him, he must be so he just need one person to open that creaked that door open, and then your talent. I think that's an interesting point because those those people that you say that might be listening, all of you out there that might be listening that are that are trying to get there or still work in
a restaurant business, which I did for twenty four years. By the way, I wasn't a successful writer, so I was almost forty so um. But there's also so we don't jump straight to Danny I Yellow because you could be listening to this going like, Yo, how the hell do I meet Danny I Yellow? That's the problem. But that's not how it happens either, right. How how that happened was I wrote a play. I did
that play in a staged reading. Somebody in the reading was a friend of my friend who was an agent, like commercial agent, a guy named Doug Keston from paradig Amazing Commercial Agent. Amazing guy goes to the He loved the play and at the time, the actor that I had in the part was going out, but he loved the play so much. He's like, can I help you, you know, find somebody. I was like, oh
my god, that man. At the time. By the way, I'm living in a eight foot by five foot room in Brooklyn eating Chinese food for five days, you know what I mean, like terrible. And he calls me up a few days later and says, how would you feel about Danny Aello? I'm like, were you crazy? Like that was like right, like, well, let's get it to him. And there's a funny story about that. I won't go into it, but my point was it wasn't
just oh, hi, here's that Danny Aello. Of course, because it was doing a little reading of a play in a little place where a bunch of friends. Somebody was there. He said, I liked it. So it's not just you know, it's about how you build relationships, how you network. And this gets back to your ago where the traffic is. The more people you know, if you're doing good work, somebody notices, tell somebody else, and then you get to Danny Illo, which gets you through
the fence to whatever happens next. So there is a you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely, I agree with you one hundred and ten percent. The point is that, yeah, you have to just do work because you didn't write. You didn't write that first script thinking that you were going to get someone like the Danniella to open a door for you. You were just doing the work. But I have to ask you, man, and this is something I think a lot of people listening would would identify with.
How did you keep going until? I mean, all those years you said, twenty four years in the restaurant business. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. What kept you going following the dream of being a writer and a director. I mean, but I I let it die. It was never a writer. It was always I just wanted to direct theater. You know, I never thought I would be a writer. I didn't plan on it, so I let it die. I was very dysfunctional. I grew up in a house that was
no good. I was drinking too much booze when I was too young. I lived on the street for a couple of months in New York City. Like it was a mess, man. I couldn't have my lights on. You know. It was bad. But I always loved it, right. I love theater, I loved stories. I love film always. And then
I got into the restaurant business. What happens is you sort of get numb because when you have an to pay your bills and it just gets you enough, and then you you're so depressed that you're not doing what you love to do that you finish work at the restaurant at one, and then you drink your face off till four, you know, and then you rise some repeat
for about what turns into two days to ten years, you know. And I did everything there was to do in a restaurant, from washing dishes and peeling shrimp to owning one um which you know, uh, in general, managing all that stuff. But one day I just quit it. Um two thousand or something. I just quit it and ran to Florida. But then I said, I'm gonna try it. So I wrote the plays and then it worked. UM so I didn't keep the dream alive in the middle.
I just envied the dream and it was really depressing time for me. Um and still to this day when i'm you know, I swear to God like this is my house, this is my office, as my man cave down here because you have a drum set back there. So oh yeah, I was gonna say this is a very Yeah, my Yankees baseballs are there? Is that a golden globe back there? Yeah? I think, yeah,
of course. And there's no night. There's no night that I don't or morning that I don't wake up and come down here and go what the hell happened? Like I I wake up every day like I mean it like super grateful like like that. But it's crazy, you know how I got from there to here, and that for anybody listening like that, like there is a road, it just takes. The road is the road, you know. And I think people get to scards everybody. Oh you do things,
you submit it. Yeah, but you know agents aren't reading your ship and you're not setting them straight to a studio like it seems impossible, but it
is. Like you said about doing the work, about having friends read, about opening up your circles to people who are more in the business, and your talent hopefully will naturally float you up, you know, toward the top um if you if you network enough and give your stuff enough and have good soul and help other people, and you know, I believe that I'm living proof of the luckiest son of a bitch in the world. Yeah, it's
it's it's a beautiful I love what you're saying. It's actually really beautiful because it's there's so much hardship trying to get into this business. It is it is absolutely brutal, so arguably the most difficult business in the world to crack into. Really it's you're you could be a brain surgeon faster, honestly, Yeah, or more directly, that's true. Absolutely, Yeah, There's there's no question because there is no path. And I love when you said the
path is the path. The journey is the journey, and it's different for every single person. No one else is going to write a play who then a friend season than an Agencyson. Then it gets to a Danny, a yellow caliber actor who then opens a door for you. They get you.
Nobody's gonna pat that. And my biggest mistake growing you know, coming up in the business is I just started seeing everybody else's I was like, Oh, that's how Robert Rodriguez did it, Well, maybe that's what I should do, or that's how Kevin Smith did it, because I came up in the nineties. So it's like, yeah, and then it ever works.
Yeah, you have stories about him giving blood and raising the money from you direct hearny filmmakers I've talked to. It was like, yeah, I gave blood too, And I'm like, how did that work out for you? Bro? I'm still hustling, man. I'm like, that was his God, that's his bad. So you gotta find that path for yourself, I think is the big thing. So you finally get to to Cia, you get to means that's but yeah. But at the time, but when you
met Alejandrew, was Alejandro Alejandro yet or was he just uh? He had just finished No, he had just got won the Golden Globe for and was nominated for all the Oscars from Babble. Oh that's right, the Babble. He did better do that. Also, he was already out the Hunter, he was already on the battle. He did his first three movies with an unbelievably talented writer named Yer Mariaga who twenty one Grahams and Battle Right, and
then those guys parted ways and he was looking for another writer. And this agent in New York from CIA, who Johnny Plant Danny and by introduced me to Johnny. Johnny submitted my stuff to CIA. At CIA, there was a theater agent named Olivier Saltan who's still my agent, one of my best friends. And Olivier fell in love with my play Still Life and Crazy because Alejandra, I think we've just moved from Paradigm to CIA, I believe.
And he was looking and he had parted ways with Giermon and he was looking for writers and CIA since he was a new client, and he was, you know, just on babbling. He's you know, up and coming as one of the biggest directors. And they sent him a pile of scripts. And the way Alejandro told me my story was like he read through a million scripts and called CIA. It was like, it's not working. I can't
find it. Went through the bottom of his pile and there was my play, not a movie script, my play Still Life, and he read it and they called up you know, his people CEA and said, who the hell's that guy? I need to talk to that guy, and they called me in New York City. I'll never forget. I was in my sweatpants, eating a TV dinner off a trade with my wife watching the Yankees played Toronto Blue Jays. I'll never forget it. And I got a phone call. It's like, is this Alexander? And I said yeah. I said
this is I read your Place to Life. It's full of blood. I want to drink your blood. That was literally the first thing mother said to me. Ever, that's what he said. And my wife was swooning because she thought he was so good. And she's like, oh, and I'm like, what is happening right now? He's like, can you come to it late tomorrow? I got on a day I'm playing. That was a Tuesday night. I got on a plane the next day and the next night
he and I were having dinner discussing what would become the film Beautiful. Two days later he called my agents and he's like, I want alex he's my writer and I joined him in Spain and we wrote beautiful. Dude. It's crazy, bro, that's insane. The same These are the kindest stories that are heard about in the in the in the back alleys of Hollywood, and you're like, this is what happened. This is you. It happened for you too. And they'll say these kind of stories, but that's such an
Literally, the universe was guiding you. There's just no utch, there's no other explanation, there's no makes no sense. And make it a pile of scraps from all these imagine the famous street writers that were in the pile. And then he picks out a play at the bottom by play from New York. Yeah, I remember somebody's done to me. I forget who was. But are we calling the story? He's like like they eat told, Like
I forget who it was. Somebody high up and see one of the you know, owner Kevin or Bran or something, and he was like, uh, you know Alex, I found my writer, Alex. They were like, oh my god, that's amazing. Why didn't we think of it? It's a perfect you know marriage. And then they called New York and like, who the hell is Alex? And they were like, oh, he's a playwright. Olivia hasn't like get on the phone, he needs to get on a plane. And I was like, that's that's how that's how that
went. And did you ever did youervery see the movie The Big Picture with Kevin Bacon? Yeah it was. It's kind of had a little bit of that vibe too, like who is who's this guy? He's the highest guy we need to get hold. Yeah, nobody knew me. I was brand new. So all right, so you fly out? Do you fly out of Spain to meet on the hundre starting? I flew from New York to La okay, oh to La. And then well when you started to work
with with Alejandro, Yeah, as as a collaboration. Well, first of all, when you went to meet him that night, Dude, what is that like? Bro? How do you look like? I can't I can't even tell you the joy of it? Like, I'm I'm a schmuck, I'm not making any money. Um, But I get out there. He picks me up for dinner in his car. We go to this Italian restaurant that we still go to now. It's a little outdoor place like not it
doesn't look super fancy, but it's really good. The food's great and he loves it and they're letting him smoke out on the patio, which in La you can imagine good um. But we're we immediately hit it off, right, so we're like three bottles of wine in and Alexandro I don't know if you remember the movie Beautiful, but Alejandro like gets up from the table and he's like no. And then we're on the water and I don't go to sea. You looked up dead body floating like eyes looking at your dead body,
and there's everybody eating right around this in their instaurant. When he get so passionate and he just starts doing this another money and all of a sudden, like a grave yard in the water, and I was just I loved every minute. But you can just picture the people nearby going, how is that? La? It's just it? And we yeah, we thought in
love on our first day. Yeah, oh that's amazing. And so let me ask you, working with someone like Alejandro, who's obviously a genius, He's an absolute genius, what are some of the lessons you learned as a writer working with him, specifically on that first project. And then we'll get
to Birdman. Well, the first project was amazing because here I am in this whirlwind that I go, I go to Spain, to Barcelona where that movie takes place, and it's about street people, um African immigrants who sell the purses, and the video takes like a big part of the story. And the story is how he added out of them, has two kids and he's dying and he has no place to leave them. His wife is sort of bipolar, and he doesn't have family, and he and that money.
And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. This whole thing, it's so sad. What do I do with this? What do I do with these kids? Um? So we went to Barcelona for a week or two. We did the research, We interviewed, we went to the little apartments of these people and how hard they work and how tough they live. It was really uh. And then saw sites and you know, you sort of got what we what we needed. And then he said make it your own, you know, now make
it your own. And I went back. I moved to Barcelona for about a month. My wife is my best partner, UM, my wife Nila, and she was like, just go because I wanted to be there. So about the streets in Barcelona. So I lived there and I just typed it out and I handed it to Alejandro and he said to me like, this is not what I wanted. And I was like, I thought he was kidding at first, and he was like, no, this all of a sudden he said it sad. I was like, oh shit, like
he means this. And we did all the work together. We talked about it like I didn't, and he said, I'm gonna go to Mexico. I gonna write a few scenes and then I'll send them to you and you'll see more of the tone. And I was like, oh my god, it's for real. And I remember sitting on a couch and I gotta admit I was. I was crying like I would be too. My wife was just you know, and I was just so sad, not only because it was Allahnder, but because, like I felt strongly about what I had done.
No, no, the story um. And then he sent me some scenes and I realized, oh no, I'm not I liked him. We liked each other so much, and I'm like, I can't write that story. So I talked to Nila, I talked to my agents, and then finally one night I got on the phone with Alahameder and I was like,
brother, I can't write this. You're a genius and this movie is going to be amazing, but I'm not your guy, um, and I'll make it worse because I don't believe that that isn't my understanding and I'm too close after a month with these people that I wrote, but you can use everything I wrote and I'm sorry. He's like, well, you know, Getti and I used to hammer it out, and I'm like, yeah, if I thought we were close, but we're not close, and I'm just going
to hurt your movie. And it was funny because it was the only guy that understood, like I remember the night, I think Hilly count it the same way. We both was really sad about it. We were like we knew it was strictly about the work and he respected that and I respected him so much. And that was it, and I didn't talk to him again until he was going to do the premiere, which not a premiere screening at the Solo House in New York and he invited me, and I was so
nervous. I brought my friend Olivier, my agent, just to hold his leg because I was so nervous, and everybody was there, like Julian Stable was there and I was fun. So I was there and I watched the movie and a lot of the stuff for the father and the kids stuff was still had my stuff and spirit in it, and and so that relieved me a little bit. And then the other stuff was the other stuff. Um and uh. He was so nice about it, and we have lunch the
next day and he said, what did you think? I like? What am I supposed to say? I was like, it's a beautiful movie. I still stand where I stood before. I think when it focuses on this thing, it's I feel more of that. When it doesn't, I sort of don't. But and you know, like my reps and people stopped talking to me for a little while because they thought, here's this here's this new guy, and he's a vain, crazy, difficult and I was none of
those things. But they didn't know that. Alejandro knew that. And sorry to make this story longer than it should, but so I resigned from the film. I was on the first name on special credits. UM. I remember sitting with my friend Brad Frying and watching and clip of Javier on the Oscars that year, and I standing my buddy Brad, who was an actor who standing right next thing I'll never forget, and they were showing the clip of how Yet It because he was nominated for Best Actor for that, and
I said, look at that, Brad. I said, that's the closest I'm ever going to get to an Academy award right there, like that thing. And Brad was like, get a whiskey, like I was. I was screwed. I'm bying. Yeah. And then so at my agents, you know, we're not pleased, and understandably, but they didn't hear the whole story. And then I went to I used to write in Puerto Rico. I used to write on the West coast, and he Sabello whenever I
went to go write. And I was working on a musical of the Bodyguard of all Things, the Lawrence Hazed In movie, and I was doing a musical for England. And I got there and I got a call from Alecandro and he said, to Gayo, he said, I have an idea. It's a comedy, dark comedy in one take, and I want you to write it with me. And I said, man, nothing would make me happier. We have unfinished business and I would love that, and he said, do you mind because the guy who the guys who replaced me were Nico
and Armando are beautiful. They're the ones that are quite with Alendro. He's like, do you mind if I bring this guy Nico in with me? And I was like, miss mother, Yeah, sure, what am I saying? No? Um? But you know, then I got a call from my age and who was like, hey, I heard you. Yeah, of course, of course. Um, it's understanduddy, it's understand buddy, pal Yeah I heard. Yeah, I heard you had a kid two years ago. UM. But like I said, I understand it, I
really do. UM. So then we flew to New York. I met Nico and it took Niko and I one day to become brothers. And then Nko and I were writing Birdman. UM. And then Armando came in and was doing album the story and Ala Handro you know, had the idea and and and I'm sorry, And that's that's how that happened. I thought I turned that off. Um, that's how that happened, in the craziest, in the craziest way. Um. We ended up working on Birdman and that's
how that story went. So I guess I risked every thing I didn't mean to. I still I don't know if I went back in time now, I probably wouldn't have done it again. And my wife was a champ for standing by my side, as was my age in Olivier. Because you imagine how crazy that sounds. Well, yeah, you know, I mean you
man, that's I mean, brother man. That is a hell of a story because you just you get your shot with arguably, you know, one of the greatest directors of his time, of his generation, and everyone knew he was going in that direction without question, and you decide to have in Hollywood integrity, as I put it out in quote, integrity for the story. Like it sounds insane, this is Hollywood talking, this is a Hollywood thing. How the agents looked at it. But Ole Hunter understood where you
were going with it and respected it because you're right. Because a Hollywood director the would have a Hollywood writer who might have not had the same sensibility as you would have been like, this is my shot, I'm gonna bammer it out with him, and it might have made the film worst, but you outed up. She said, this is nothing. I probably should have um, but I did. I just respected him so much, and I was like, I'm not going to get in the way of this genius, Like
I'm gonna write that badly. I'm gonna write that badly. And this is my first shot. And and you know, like I said, I don't I don't know if I do the same thing again today, I'd like to think I would. Um. I was making no money at the time when I quit, you know, as making two plays off Broadway in New York, which pays you all about twenty five thirty thousand dollars in total in some of the biggest off Broadway theaters in New York, by the way, and
they still you know, there's no money in it. And you know, my wife was making all the money at that time. She calls me her startup. Now to this day, I love that, Yeah she does. But she stood by me. But yeah, Alejandro knew what I was saying, and I was saying, I'm not going to get in the way of your vision of this of this film, and nobody else got it, but he got it and then came right back to me. And now we've done four together. We're still doing stuff together where brothers, Um, I love
him, So it just worked out, man. It definitely worked out the way it's supposed to work out for you. And it's the thing that's great about it is looking in from the inside out. From outside in it's insanity, but from the inside out it makes all the sense in the world. It looking back, yes, looking back, looking back when you're in it, not so much. Now. I have to tell you about bird Man
Man. I was that year. I heard about Birdman, and obviously it looked it looked really interesting, and I was a fan of Alejandrew and I watched it and I'll never forget my first impression of Birdman. I turned to my wife and I said, Oh, my god, that's what a director is. I haven't seen a director direct, really direct, and have such a clear vision in such a long time. And that's not a slight on
any other director, just at that moment. His vision was so vivid for that film, and it just was like he took you by the nose and carried you through the entire movie and the performances and the one shot. And I'm like, what is going on when you're writing that with him? It's insane story. Yeah, everything is a little bit like it's insane. The characters are all over the place, meaning that like, there's so many different things going on in that story. How did you keep it all? That's
I guess that's why you needed three or four writers on it. We'll kind of keep it all in check. I would tell me Alejandra had a strong vision of what it was. He had a very strong vision, and Armando as a director as well, and a very good one at that. They tend to be story guys, I mean Alejanders generating a story, and Nico and I are the sort of writing guys, like how do we make that? How do we put that into you know, exterior Saint James Theater,
New York City. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. I think, like I said, Nico and I had became inseparable and we were finishing each other's thoughts, and we're two very different kind of writers. Like I don't know if you saw it. Nico has a really quirky, great film called John and the Hole that was just it was in the Stupid Bright in the Pandemic. But right he's Nico is a an absurdist at heart. He's an abstractionist and I'm a dialogue
action conflict and together it was that's what bird Man is. Right. Either you have Michael Keaton and I'm a stone and you're not important, blah blah blah, get used to it, or you have him eating below an ego and I don't know this play is chasing me around with a tiny hambra hidden
meaning in balls or Birdman flying, and that's Nico. And the two of us just loved each other's styles, even though we don't write in each other's styles, so we would laugh, you know, um So, I think speaking for myself, I mean, I know, Alejandro, I'm gonna you know, I'll tell you a million ways why all hundred is a genius. Um. But speaking for myself in this particular style played right into my strength as a playwright. Right of course, dialogue scenes clever, keeps moving,
it's not elliptical. Um. For me, it was like going home, you know, to to my plays. Um and I love that. Um So. I focused on that. Nico focused on the more esoteric, and Alejandro is a master of both. He's a master of the fifty fifty and two people in a room going at each other and He's a master of the visual epic weep move. But I think the best thing I can say about my partner Alejandro is that his guts just don't lie to him. He knows
in a way like when he and Chievo that our DPM. When him and Chievo are standing there and working it out, you just sit back and I don't know what to say. You you you, You just sit with your mouth shut and watch It's It's a stunning thing to see happen. Their instincts are so pure and have adrenaline in them by all by themselves. And that's what for me. The best bird Birdman to you was what Good Fellas was to me when I saw it. He just pull yanked you into this world.
And then you're in this world and you you just don't get out of it. It's just trap it and go. And I feel like Alejandro outside of the righting, I'm just talking about his direction, did that like man with you like it or love it? And people love it and people hate it? Like I get both, I really do um. But for the people who love it, I think it feels like that you got pulled into this ride and it's dark and it moves and you just don't know what's happening.
It doesn't feel familiar in a way, which is, you know, really lovely. I think un rare and rare these days and rare. Yeah, I thought that last year about that about Everything Everywhere, which wasn't my favorite film, but I certainly loved it. But it felt like, oh shit, yes, right, two rocks or boulders are speaking to each other. That's perfection. Mike's are those hotdog hands? Why get to the bagel? We're good? Yeah, no, no that and don't even get me
stopping. I had the boys on the Daniels on before they were the Daniels, and and just hearing the story of how that, I'm like, you guys are insane. It's insane said that movies. And it was so wonderful. It was such a wonderful film as well. Yeah, and you know, speaking of Chivo, I mean Chivo had a run there of three three Oscars in a row grab Revenant, yeah not not not a bad run. And then Alejandro had backed the back Oscars for Best Director, which I don't
know if that has that happened before. It has I think once or twice before. I remember it's a rare. It's a rarity. It's definitely not something that happens often. Working When when you're saying this this thing, when you're watching Chivo and are working on set and they just know that they trust their gut. It sounds to me like they're just that thing that we all all the creatives, all of creatives do when we try to connect to the
ether, to connect to the source of whatever creativity is. It seems that they have a very strong connection to it and they trust it implicitly, like they just because a lot of times as a writer or as a director, you second guess you're kind of like, oh, maybe, maybe not. It sounds like these guys are like it's like watching the Beatles writing a song and those documentaries just like just they're firing on all cylinders. Yes, that's
that's why I've been in the room. I mean, I've been privilege to be in the room. It's crazy, and I think I want to be clear because I you know, I know and have been friendly with with you know, Alexandro Alfonso Guilletimo del Toro Geebo. Um. I'll say this, if the world's still around in fifty years, they're gonna be full chapters in film books about that these three guys in that period of time, and they make very different movies, but they all come from the same place. This
is what they where They're gonna call Mexican. The Mexican cinema of the odds is this passionate like it's not the genius of Paul Thomas Anderson or the genius of the Cohens, which are massive geniuses. But the difference in style with
the Mexicans for me is this lead by the gut balls out. The mistakes are part of the you know, like I watched Todd's movie with Kate h tar Oh, yeah, it's it's it's perfection, it's it's it's I don't mean the story or I just mean it's constructed in a way that's so perfect um and it's super wonderful. Our guys aren't like that. They're even when it's choreographed to an inch of its life. The mistakes are part of the
joy of it. The car chase, Famous car Chase and City of men Uh, you know the guieron is sequence and Pans labyrinth that that keeps cutting back and forth like they just do things and it's the totality of their instinct
that is what's right. Not the perfection of what they're doing. Even their stuff is pretty unbelievable, but you know what I mean, And I think that's what that's what this moment and those guys have in common, this instinct, like you said, this, this this barometer that that just it. It just takes them the right way and lady takes them somewhere a right. I mean you look at Get On or Get Off. Yeah, look at
Getmo stuff. I mean it's so guietemo like. There's just no there's no one else on the planet who can make a film like no like, and those are the best kind of film filmmakers are. You can't see anyone else making your avatar regardless, you can't see you can't see anyone else making et
like. You just can't see that. It's not possible. It's the DNA is so mixed in that, you know, don't make any like Like Spielber couldn't make a Good Fellas, but it's not going to be Marty's Good Fellas, no either, And Marty could have made Jaws, right, not gonna It's just not going to be the same, that's right. It's it's it's all right. Working with Alejandro now on so many projects, what is like
the biggest lesson you've learned as a writer working with him? He has a he has a a bullshit meter where you can write something really really great, you know, and you know writers, we usually hate ninety percent of what we write, but you'll find something to say, oh, that's that's really great, and he's like, yeah, it's it's really good, really good. I'm not going to use it, um because I can do that whole thing you just did if I just do this with the camera door there.
But it's great, nice idea. What else do we have? And you're like, I just I spent three weeks. What are you talking about? And then you're watching You're like, yep, yep, he was right. They have an amazing way to get past is an amazing It's again, it's his truth meeter. He just he just knows if it feels, you know, right or wrong, or whether it's an image or a line. He just he has an you know what he comes from music like Alehammer was very much from music. Um, I think he was when I was in the
restaurant business. I think he was a dj um, but music means a lot to and that's how he I think that's his paradigm. He sees everything as this sort of rhythm and music, and whether it's time for a dissonant note or harmony, he'll he'll he'll know, sort of enjoy. But that's that's what it feels like. Um. And he's he's taught me to lean more on, like stop being so polished and stop saying everything, say what's
get down to the center of it. And he's made me better. I mean, he made me better instantly with Murdman, and even seems beautiful that you know that that survived. He just makes me better. Now. I always like asking this question from people who've won oscars, What was it like being in the center of the storm? Will be right back back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show that was Birdman, the whole pomp and circumstance. You're going into award shoft to awards show and
everyone's you're the best, you're the greatest. This destroys most most people, it does in Hollywood. We've seen that a thousand times. How did you deal with being in the middle of this whole a hurricane. Essentially, it's the eye of the storm essentially. Well, I think I think the greatest thing about being a screenwriter is that nobody knows who you are. That you
have to tell some I was funny. I was at a funeral. My great answers like one hundred and seven years old, God blesser and I was a funeral and somebody I hadn't seen in twenty years, my army inside of the family, came up to me at the funeral. I was like, oh my god, you're famous. I said, I'm not. Things like you're famous. We saw you in the Oscar and I said, I'm nothing. I said, what's your favorite movie that you ever saw in your whole
life? And she said Shawshank Redemption. I said, who wrote it? She said, what's your second favorite movie? Time cast a blank? I was like, who wrote it? Like nobody, not like only movie people, you know what I mean. So screenwriters, you get you're under the radar. Plus there was me Nico Armando, like we were all sneaking on the Alejandro. You know, everybody's looking for him as the director, as
the auto or naturally, so it wasn't that crazy. So we we had the joy of being able to be part of it and still be able to enjoy it with our wives. And like we had a ball at the Golden Globes. We were getting drunk at the table. We had a we had a ball, like the whole time, we just had a ball because it wasn't it wasn't real. You know, we weren't under any pressure at all. Um, So it was fine, Like I was there, I'll show
you. I don't know if I can go get it for you, but it's a startling no. Please gook a if you if you go, if you go to um whatever YouTube wherever you watch the you know, Birdman winning Best Picture or whatever. We had one screenplay amazing, Alejandro had one director TiVo one. UM. We were hoping Michael would win. I'm still sor yeah, but so we had done our thing and then best picture. So
the best picture you win and everybody goes up on stage. So now we're up there with Emma and Ed Norton and you know, all the fame. I'm like, nobody's looking at me, like Arna milschen Um, Jim Scotch to all the great producer um. And I'm standing up there and I'm like well, literally nobody at home or in this theater is looking at me, so you can see it in the YouTube video. I reach into my pocket and I take out my phone and I just go like, I don't aim.
I just go like this and I, you know, turn that camera really fat one click. I put it right back in my pocket. I'm like, I probably got you know, somebody's feet, but I had to try it. Well. The picture that came out on my phone was this, wow, oh my god, everyone who's listening, you gotta go on to YouTube. But why look at this well and that is amazing is holding
the oscar and the god light that's coming right down easy. And there was like Jared Leto and Clint Eastwood and my wife is here in front of Harvey Weinstein and an a win tower in the Red Threat. Oh good lord, but I got that. Did you give that to I'm assuming you gave that tall hunk. I didn't give it to anybody. He asked me for it. I was like, nope, that's mine. You want to visit it, come to my house. But it was a wonderful moment of an example
of like I was just enjoying it. I was just and there's yeah. Yeah, it's so crazy, man, I would show you some other stuff if this was a if we were on the video, because there's a video of my friends who all gathered in New York City in a base and fifty of my best friends. Yeah, and when we win. That's the only thing that ever made me cry that year. Was they sent me that that
night at four in the morning or whatever. Oh, there's a video of them nervous and then these Eddie Murphy says Bergman, and they I mean erupt and cry and laugh and they had won it and they'd be so emotional. Um, it's still one of my favorite moments. My god, brother, that's that's it was fun. It was. It's fun. Now after you win the Oscar, then of course everybody in town you're wanted. You're an Oscar winner. Now you're yeah, you're an Oscar winning screenwriter. Everybody.
How did the town treat you different? Did it treat you differently? It? Did it treat you the same? I mean, you're ready, You're not a kid, so you I think you can handle whatever comes your way a bit better than if you were jointy and gotten that. Yeah, and I also lived through you know, not so great time. So I'm, like I said, I'm generally grateful. Um, yeah, things change,
you know, Uh, the job has become different. You make your agent's job easier because they can go out and say, you know, it wasn't there were four of us credited on the film, so you know. But yeah, author started coming differently, and then once I got on zooms with people they understood who I or in person means they understood who I was. Then it definitely created more work. Obviously a little bit more money and I don't have to pitch stuff as much anymore. I can if it's personal.
But the biggest advantage is people come to you and say, hey, how about this? And you know, I tend to want to work with with like young not young, but new filmmakers makes me happy. Like I just did Carmen, which is out now with Benjamin Yet. That was his first feature and he has an amazing eye. I'm doing with Resident with Renee. I'm doing the Puerto Rico film because I love the still searching for it. And then occasionally I'll do the you know, do allow you talking about doing
something else now, but I'll do the other ones as well. Um, but I get now. It's more I get to a little more ability to choose what I want to do and not have to hustle as it were, um, you know as much as I used to, Thank God, because I'm fifty five, so I don't have the energy for it. Brother, he's telling me about him. Man, it's getting tough out here to hustle. Keep keep that hustle going. When when you wake up and you hear things popping a greeky and you're like, oh, oh hell man, yeah
to the bathroom. So this so the start up paid off for your wife essentially? Yeah, yeah, yeah, she's smart. She's all the smart one. Yeah, my my wife was. My wife called me the uh not an investment, but not an endowment, but uh some sort of financial instrument that pays off years later. Yeah I knew, I knew, Yeah exactly. She's like, oh, it's finally are the payoff. It's like it's only taken Like, yeah, it's a long term investment. This one
this was how old are you? I'm forty eight? Are you're forty eight? Forty? Baby in the baby you and I walked over the same dead body, sir, Okay, so please and Alejandro was shooting them like and then so so you worked also as a co producer on the Revenue, which is again another man. I mean, he was just nailing these things back to back back. I was just like, what is what is this man on? And can I get some like? It was remarkable you worked as
a co producer. I'm assuming you helped it a little bit on the back end of the writing or polishing or Ko and I helped with the story a little bit, and we helped. We had advised on on that sort of thing, and we're close to him when he when he needed us. Um during that period, Um, would you want set? Nico went to set. I was in New York. I was working on my music and I was working with get Him on something at the time, so I didn't get to go, but um Nika went um and it was crazy, all the
stories and I would get I would get the phone calls. Um. But that's just another example of those two mania. I don't think he'll ever do that that. I mean, he just did Barter, which is insane. But like Revenue was like three hours of light. They're using all natural light, four degrees, they run at snow. They gotta go to Patagonia, you know, going, you know, method in his way like a madman, like he wanted to live it all, like he ate it up and
lived that. I mean, I'm so glad he won for that because he was he literally was going to kill himself until they gave him an oscar. For God's sake, someone to kill himself in revenue. I mean, he might as well have. It was in the freezing water. He's eating buffalo liver. Like. The guy's a maniac um and an incredible actor. And I'm so glad they rewarded him. But that that was everybody just you know whatever, risking life and limb to make a film. And I think you
can see it in the in the imagery. I think you can see it in the film, I mean the the the when I heard the stories coming out from the set, and I had a few friends of mine who worked here and I would hear stories, I'm like, this can't be like three hours of natural light. I mean, I know it's Achieva, and I mean Achieva, I trust, but Cheese like it's crazy and it's great. What's the craziest story that you could share publicly that you heard. We'll talk
about the non public hard hard. Yeah, the hard part is what we can say publicly. Um, because I when I heard is that that he had there was a ringing of a bell or something like that, or a siren once a day to remind everybody what they were, why they were doing what they were doing, something like that. I don't know, I'm trying to think of what because there's a lot of really good stories. Um, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the
show. I don't know if I'm allowed to say it, so I'm gonna I I yeah, I'm not. I'm gonna refrain from that question. Okay, Well after we stop off, fine, you can tell it. But I'm telling you I'm yeah, I'm gonna start a show one day and just record the things I get they stopped, because that's the best stories ever. Man, that's gonna be the end of your No. No, I'll do
that when I'm like ninety and everyone's dead already. Yeah, sure, I'm no. No, no, of course, of course, there were a lot of crazy stories, and a lot of it had to do with you know, jumping into ice cold rivers, people thermal doctors on set um. But how hard they how hard they pressed. Um. All you all you have to think about is if we talk about that window of light. If you've got anybody here has ever listening, has ever made a film, and
you think about how much a setup is and what it takes. And if you think about that sort of opening sequence of The Revenant, even in cuts, that that battle scene, even if you could contemplate it in cuts and try to understand how that was all orchestrated with within windows of time that would provide light, it would seem insurmountable, Like how they did it. I'm still not I have no idea. It's it's yeah, it is. It is a masterpiece, to say the least. My friend. Now, you
you have also been directing as well. You've directed, um features, you've directed, did you have a direct You've directed? A future areadywhere I haven't directed my full length shorts directors. I directed a long short about thirty five minutes called in This Our Time, based on a play I wrote. I'm set up to direct, to direct my first feature, which is actually the adaptation of the play I told you Alijandra read to Find Me in the First
Place, which is a play called Still Life. Yeah, we're just trying to tie up the actors. I have the um, just the genius DP UM, Luca Biggatzi who did and young Pope I mean he's he's a monster, UM. And he read it and loved it and has has told me he wants to do it. I have a really great production designer, David Rockwell here in New York, who designs all of New York. Is a very New York piece. Um. And we're just trying to sew up the
actors. We have the financing and God willing, I'll be able to announce something soon. UM. Next year, we'll finally, UM, we'll finally shoot it. Now, from the experience you have had on set as a director, there's always that day that we all feel like the entire world's coming crashing down around us. I'm assuming that was every second on Revenant, but yeah, yeah, UM, what was that day for you and how did you overcome it? I think that was that was my first day. Um.
I had some I had three excellent actors. We had a scene that was in a bar with two terrific actors, an intimate scene, dialogue, heavy hard, and I had a DP who was excellent. Um who his name is, Barry Marko Witz. I'll say it. He's great. Um. He shot Crazy Heart, shot shot the Apostle. Yeah, and he did this job for me for like, you know, eight dollars in a sandwich, because he liked the script and he wanted to work together. He
was he's a great guy. Um, but he's a big personality. And he was on set, and then I had these producers that were wandering around on set and I just didn't have control of it. And it was my first day on on any sort of feature, short or long h a short film, but it was my first day and I didn't know how to stand up and how to take control, and things just spiraled one by one. People started in the vacuum in my absence. They started making decisions that were
contradictory, and it was you know, it was a whole thing. And we got through it and we got a good we got good takes out of it, thank god. But the next day, you know, I thought long and hard about it the night and the next morning I got the whole set together. I said, whatever went wrong yesterday is all on me,
but it's not happening again. And this is how it's going to go, and they responded, my whole crew was amazing, and they were I think they were grateful to hear it. So it really was a lesson for me because when I'm directing theater, I'm entirely comfortable, but I think my self doubt about you know, I'm not going to talk to you. I don't understand the full ramification of a lens choice, Like I understand the basics,
but I don't understand the full ramifications of it. And I felt like, since I didn't, I wanted to do a fur But then when you defer too much, it falls down around you. So I learned right away that you just want to be specific about Look, this should feel claustrophobic. This
should feel like you can't escape the cage of this table. And then your cinematographer says, ah, okay, in that case, we're gonna use this, and we're gonna and all of a sudden and they're lighting and they're like, now, now, now we have So really, even if you don't know the specifics, as long as you know the action of the scene, the feeling of the scene, what you want from it, and you and you and you have good people and you explain that, uh, you find
things get better. But my first day felt like a landslide getting away from me. And it was a horrible, helpless feeling. Um, thank god, it is it is, it is. It's brutal, mash friend. I'm trying to make you day. Yeah. Yeah, that that that that dragon is just coming after you every second that comes down, lights going down. Yeah, ot, you gotta Oh no, I can't go into ot. We can't afford no, no, no, no, no, it's it's it's brutal. Man. Now I have to ask you, because I
am of Cuban dissensor. Yes, and I have to ask you what it was like working with the legendary Gloria I mean, I mean Gloria and Emilio. I grew up in Miami. I remember when Miami stab Machine hit Dude. It was a phenomenon five eighty six. I try to explain to people he was just a phenomenon and funny, funny side note. My first job in Miami as an editor was for the director of all of those early music videos. Oh really, like Rhythm's Gonna Get You get on your feet.
I'm not sure if he did the very I don't think he did um doctora. I think he did doctor. I don't think he did Gonga. But but he was there, so he you know, and everybody who works in Miami Errol Errol um anyway, so it was growing up man like when Konga hit like it was a phenomenon. It was absolute phenomena. Every every wedding in bar Mitzvah in the country's still it was. That was a little crazy for me. Um. All right, So, by the way, for
the record, you're talking about the Broadway musical. I wrote on your Feet for them about their life story. And now you'll be happy to know that we're working on the film version now. Um, so that should be really fun. Um. It was amazing. I met them my friend Nick Scandelius,
who's a producer for the Needleland or organization on Broadway. UM had seen the had seen a reading The Bodyguard that I had written the other musical for the West End, and I guess you know, he knew I was Latino or half Latino, and and and he saw that I had done like what
they called jukebox musical with Whitney's music. He said, we'd come down to Miami and I said, I don't think I'm gonna you know, I was busy, like, I don't think I'll be able to do it, and so just come down and talk to them, so they need to know what it's would be like. And I went down, I talked to them, and for me it was something else too, like you know, I grew up like I have a very I mean, yeah, I have a funny story about Gloria, UM, but um off another I could tell. I
could tell that one because we've talked about that story. First of all, I love them and they're like family to me, like I love them, um, the media, the whole family, um um, Emily and Naive as well. UM. So I met her and me and they were talking about and I said, well, if it was me, I would tell the writer who's going to do this? And I would say this because I did all the research. I read their books, they sent me all the DVDs, I did the bio like and I said, oh, and and
if it was me, I would tell the writer. And somehow I got to the end of it and Glorios like, you keep saying you're gonna tell the writer, but She's like, I want you to be the writer, and I was like, Gloria, I told Nick, I'm just not sure I was doing revenue. I was helping with revenue at the time. I was doing some things. I was like, I'm just not and she's like, well, well, And by the time we were done, we're in the parking lot and Gloria's you know, she's not a very She's not giant
in a in a hype man. She's giants in other ways, in other ways and almost every other way. Her heart is giant, and her personality is giant, and her talent is giant. But she's short. And I remember her in the parking lot of their offices in Miami looking up at me, and she's like, your mother's park Cuban, right. I was like yeah. She just looked at the shot won't disappoint her. And I was like, cornyo, what do I do now? I like one I got to the airport and I called my agent. I said, I think I'm
doing the stuff on musical and he was like really. I was like, I think I'm doing it, because the minute I told my mother I would have been done. No. No, I was a very mafioso style way. Oh she went full on me. She went full we'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and now back to the show. And thank god she did because it turned out to be one of my favorite experiences.
We're still friends to this day. She's a beautiful human being. The story I tell, which is slightly embarrassing, Oh God, is that I went into her. She hasn't in her house. She has this place she calls the lair, and she was just the one on the one on Star Island. Is that she needs to live it yea, yeah, so side house and has this loft and that's where all computers and stuff is. And she was doing this like blog this sort of and she invited me to be on
to talk about on your Feet, so I went. We didn't know each other that well then and we were just talking and she was like, oh, we're talking about the musical. I'm doing research. And she's like, no, it's like this video of which videos did she show me? Like a music video that she did a music video? It was one of the later ones, a little balad. But she's in the white shirt with the black you know, with the tight and I don't know what I was thinking
because I'm fifty five. But I looked at it and I was like, oh my god, I had the biggest crush on you, as if I just remembered. And then I realized, oh shit, I'm citty with Glorious. I don't want to sound like a creep, like did you just say that out loud? You just used at it out loud with my mouth hole and right too. I immediately must have turned like brick red and I was
like, I don't mean that in the best. She's like, darling, I will take it anywhere I could get it, Like I was like, oh my, oh my god, it came right out of my mouth. I was looking at her, going, oh, I remember being like really attracted to you years. Yeah, in my teenage years, being really attracted to you, you and me both brother. It's there's nothing, there's nothing, there's no shame, there's she was Gloria. He's still going just now.
She's gorgeous. We had a ball, and God, did my mother ever win it all right because she got to go to all the premiere she I think my mother has seen that show more than me and Gloria. I think it's possible, like my mother has seen that show, like it goes to Miami. She sees it. She went, They're playing a little little tiny theater up and run. Listen, bro, listen, I was listen.
I was when I was coming up in Miami. I was an editor, and I was editing basically commercials and music videos and things every all the big stuff that was playing on Don in Miami, and I got to work with. I did a lot of stuff for Univision and Telemundo and that kind of stuff too. And I did an I did one with cheat with Don Francisco. I did a commercial with Don Francisco from Yeah, Bro, if I tell you when I told my parents that I hadn't met Salo, I
haven't met Don Francisco. I'm editing a commercial with Don Francisco. No, the entire Cuban family knew that, Like, oh my god, alex is famous. Yeah, plex it's fair. People in Havana knew that. Yeah. Yeah, So you can imagine, yeah, yeah, you can imagine when I brought my family back to you know, you can you imagine me, Oh my god, that must have been like and she's the sweetest, Like I can't even explain I can't even explain it. She's so loving.
She's such a good person. It didn't matter who you brought. Because when we were on Broadway in the Marquis Theater, there's this little it's very funny. There's this little room they put aside that they had a little bar, and Emilia would just be making you know, rum and cokes for me and him and I agree all like it was a party in that room. That room the Gloria called the g Spot by the way, that was her name.
That was her name for the thing. She said, you know, mostly most men can't find it, so we'll be here on our own. Um. Wow, Gloria's joke. It was very funny. Um. But we used to stay there and it didn't matter. Like one time I had this lady who took care of our kids and and and she was a Caribbean um, lady Doris, And she was just a ginormous Gloria fan. And I was like, I got it, so I brought it. And Gloria has a room for of important people, but she spends fifteen minutes of a
thirty minute or twenty minute intermission talking to these two. And I'm like, this lady, that's how good this lady. And Amy is like they're just the most approachable, lovely human beings they ever wanted me. My father was telling me, like he used to see Gloria and Emilia like at like malls, trying to get there, like playing music before they like right, just trying to get themselves up off the ground. And they're like, yeah, oh yeah, we know, we've seen it. We saw them coming up.
And then that's when Conga hit and they were playing weddings and bartments was in Miami while they were selling out arenas in South America. It was crazy, the story because it because they weren't famous here yet because they're famous. Yeah, you gotta see the you gotta see the either the show when it comes by or the or I'll take you next time it's there. It comes around all the time. Oh my god, oh god, oh my god,
you're kidding them. U. So I'm gonna ask you a few questions ask oh, my guests, my friend, what advice would you have for a screenwriter trying to break into the business today, trying to make it worthwhile and not clich I think, don't don't try to write for somebody else, because most people out there are doing that. So if you write with your own personality, Like your talent is your talent. Nobody knows how talent you are or aren't. Nobody knows. People will make choices on what they think
your work is, but they just don't know. So the one thing I say is original voices tend to find their way through. The one advantage of screenwriter has that other disciplines of the arts don't have is if you write original, good scripts, solidly structured, good characters, solid dialogue. If you write that, you're gonna work. If you it anywhere near a door and get through it, you're gonna work. As opposed to an actor you're like, well you have that mole on your face. You're five to seven.
I need five to eleven. You're you know, writers, It's like substance wins more than anything else. So be yourself as much as you can, because the minute you try to write like what you think they want to hear, you have seven the other writers out of eighty doing the same thing, and nobody. You'll never You can't stand out, and it won't matter because
that's not your talent. That's you imitating somebody else's talent. So I would say, try to be true to yourself, hear your voice, don't fake it, and don't manipulate your characters, like, don't be objective to them when when you're writing a scene. That was a big thing for me, well is put yourself in their place. Don't don't say he says to her, or she says to him. Don't look at it from out here. Take his point of view, hear her, feel what you feel that,
take her point of view, feel what you feel. You have to be a little bit of a method actor about it when you're writing scenes and dialogue. And then of course you know, as much of Aristotle as you can digest is amazing. Action, conflict, reverse, and you know, surprising, inevitability and those things are crucial and you'd be shocked how many times you don't see them in a scene when you ask a writer, well, who
wants what from? Who has the action in the scene, and they well, and you're like, well, that's why it's not popping right there. So that's my best advice. Really, I think if you had a chance to go in a time machine and go back to time and talk to that little guy at the beginning of your life, what advice would you give him? So I mean, hold on, like, hold on it. I know how bad it is. I know you can't believe it, but this crazy thing is going to happen if you just keep holding on. And and
I would have said that to myself as a little kid. I would have said that to myself as a teenager. And I would have said to myself at age twenty four, like when it was dark, just you just just hang on and keep believing, and keep being good to people, and keep it trying to be good to yourself. That's what I would have told him. And obviously, don't walk off a beautiful Please, don't walk off a set with a famous director on your first film in Hollywood, you pompous idiot.
I would have said that too. What is the lesson that took you the longest to learn, whether in the film industry or in life. In life, I'm still learning it, which is to forgive myself. I'm super hard on myself. My inner monologue is horrifying. I'm trying to fix that, you know, every day. I have two little kids now, I have an eleven and twelve and a nine. I'malia and Elena. Um. But I'm I've been terrible to my self and I need to I need to
not be in the industry. It was be passionate, inspire people don't impress them, right, Sometimes we try to impress somebody, but you don't want to impress them. When I talk about somebody asked me about a film, I say, well, I would do it this way. I speak the same way I'm speaking to you. Now. I'm like, I will hear. I'm like alahanaa. Maybe that's why we got along, because that's how I describe scripts. So inspire people don't, don't try to impress them.
And then finally I do have to say it. Those simple Aristotelian principles have carried me so far, the idea of surprising the inevitable conclusions to beat scenes entire films. Holy shit, I can't believe that happened. Of course that happened. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, and now back to the show. Right that, if I was paying attention, I
would have known. And you think about your favorite sort of narratives, narrative films, and you're going to find that Pan's labyrinth, right, Holy shit, I can't believe she's doubt Oh of course I wasn't you know everything from usual Suspects to the Godfather the Birdman when he of course, holy shit. Of course, if you're paying attention, I would you would have seen it. That rule carries you a long way if you can write cleverly into it.
The thing I told you about manipulating your scenes, about being outside them when they talk, that's a big deal. And and action and conflict. So I don't think it's running behind the I'm not going to get up again. But there's this is all navy blue because there's a movie screen in here, but behind the oscar, and it's a navy blue cover is my poetics,
my Aristotle's poetics. I keep it right behind the oscar to remind myself that that thing has nothing to that's nothing but luck and the grace of God and a gift for my family. But what's behind that was what got me. M h. I had a chance at that lottery. Was that book that's behind it? And it meant it's changed. It changed my life. And I didn't start as a writer. I became one and and and that was it. And the hardest question of all, my friend, three of
your favorite films of all time? Oh? God Um today today. No, they haven't changed in a long time. Okay. Amadeus, oh the most forms Amadeus, good Fellas, Yeah, which I don't. I just remember seeing three times the first day it open. Then I didn't know what the hell was going on, and then it gets a little harder. Um, Godfather is ridiculous. Um. But I love you know, I love Moonstruck. I love it. Just makes my heart explode with envy for John
the writer the cage. Oh yeah. The other things for the writers out there as well is is don't not get your stuff out there even when, Like I'm a mentor in the Writer's Guild program and I'm producing a film right now in New Mexico from a Colombian Queer identifying writer director named Alessandra la Caraza. She was my one of my This is interesting, and the Writers Guild Mentors program, I was a mentor. She wasn't my mentee, but she
was in the program. And I told them in a group, there was about twenty of them, and I told them I have a development company. So if you have a script that you're proud of and you want to send it to me, send it to me. Just make sure that it's your last draft, not your first. For now. Make sure that there's no typeos that don't do any don't send me anything that tells me you were careless.
But if you send it, it'll get read. And out of about fifteen or twenty of them, she was the only one, well either one or two, yeah, that sent it. Well, it turns out she's going to have a story like my story because right now they're in pre production in New Mexico. Residentists starring in her film. Uh Leslie Grace is starring in her film. She's directing it. It's a little budget, it's gonna be about two million. But it came because she had the balls to to
have the script, be proud of it and sent it in. I read it, I was like, I love the script. I showed it to a bunch of people. They love the script. And now we're producing her first feature. That's an awesome great So be brave, you know, and don't don't be cynical, like be brave and yeah, you should be more surrounding yourself for other artists. Surround yourself with people. The more people, the more you have a chance to climb weird stairways. Alex Thank you so
much for coming on the show. It has been such an honor and privilege and just hilarious talking to you by friend, and I feel like that anyway. You know, those are the best interviews when I when I hear the guests, Oh god, I hope I didn't say something I shouldn't have said. That's always the best conversation. Yeah, yeah, it's okay, you won the oscar ready, It's fine, I can retire, right, you agree with you did? You're good because all you gotta do is take when
you rent is due. Just show them the oscar and they don't even charge you. That's the way it works, right, beat him with it. It's really out. Just killed them, bury them. Thank you. Thank you for not only being on the show, brother, for being an inspiration to so many writers out there. My friend, Alex, I appreciate you man, all right, brother, thank you. I want to thank Alex so much for coming on the show and sharing his journey and dropping his knowledge
bombs on the Tribe today. Thank you so much, Alex. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv. Ford Slash three o seven. Thank you so much for listening to guys as always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof screen Right podcasts at bullip Groove, Screenwriting dot tv, m