There's so many people that tell me, I wish my kids came with an instruction manual and I'm like, they do. It's called the Bible, you know? And it's not going to tell you, you know, which college your kid is going to go to or what career they should have. But there's a whole lot of wisdom in the scripture, Old and New Testament that can help us raise up our kids. And I wanted to point parents to that reality.
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages Today, author and speaker doctor Kathy Cook wants to help you parent differently. She believes the outcome could be a drastic change in the culture.
Let's find out if she's right. The topic on this summer Best of Broadcast is how to raise kids who embrace biblical character, not only teaching that, but letting them catch it from mom and dad. If you go to building relationships us, you'll see. Doctor Cook's latest book, parent differently. And it strikes me, Gary, that you and Carolyn tried to parent this way and you caught a lot of positive modeling from your own parents. Is that true?
I did Chris, my mom and dad were both Christians. Dad was not a Christian, actually, when he married my mom. But two years later he became a real follower of Jesus. So I grew up in a Christian home and it made a tremendous difference in my life. You know, I am so grateful as I look back upon the years
that I spent at home. And I remember when my mom got older, of course, she was fighting with dementia for a good long while, and I had two sisters with her around the clock, and one day she said to me, she said, you know, I'm afraid you're going to run out of money paying all these sitters. And I said, well, mama, maybe I will. But look at it this way for 18, 17 years because I was 17 when I went off to college. I said, for 17 years you did everything for me. I said, so
I've only done this for about eight years. I got about how many more years to go. So yeah, this is an exciting topic today and I'm glad we're going to be discussing it.
Well, if you go to Building Relationships us, you'll see our featured resource by Doctor Cook parent differently. Raise kids with biblical character that changes culture. Doctor Kathy Cook is founder and president of Celebrate Kids Incorporated, based in Fort Worth, Texas. She's written a number of bestsellers seven, I believe, of parent and child enrichment books such as Screens and Teens eight Great Smarts and Resilient Kids. We've talked about them here.
She earned a Ph.D. in reading and educational psychology from Purdue University. Go Boilermakers. You can find out more about parent differently at Building Relationships US.
Well doctor Cook, welcome back to Building Relationships.
Thank you so much. I'm really, really happy to be here.
Before we jump into today's topic, can you tell our listeners more about yourself and why you've dedicated your life to the work you're doing with children and their parents.
Yeah, I'd love to. So I'm the founder of Celebrate Kids. I live in Fort Worth, Texas, moved here to start the ministry from green Bay, Wisconsin. Grew up in the Milwaukee, Wisconsin area. Great parents. An older brother raised in church, not by Christians. My parents came to faith in in Christ very late in life, but I was a celebrated kid. Gary. Both Dave and I were celebrated. We were paid attention to. We were wanted. We knew that we were liked and loved.
And so my ministry comes out of the success that I had as a child, and I want other children to have that. You know, some people have ministries that are founded on brokenness, and that's fine where they want to repair damage and they want to give people what they never had. My story is that I was celebrated, and I want other parents to do what my parents did.
Yeah. That's great. Well, this latest title, Parent Differently, uh, it's about teaching biblical character. What prompted you to tackle this topic?
Thanks for asking that question. You know, you and I both have this in common, Gary. I want children to fulfill the purpose that they've been given. When God chose to create them, he gave them gifts. We know that from Ephesians 210, he had a purpose and a vision for their lives. And without biblical character, children can't fulfill what they were created to do because negative character doesn't give us influence or impact. So that was one reason.
I also know that so many parents are frustrated today with disobedient kids. They're yelling. They're telling. They're throwing their hands up, they're fatigued, they're tired of the tech. So it's messy. And I believe that if we pay more attention to character than obedience, we'll make more of a life change for our children. And then the third reason is the whole idea of biblical character. We, you We know there's so many people who tell me, I wish
my kids came with an instruction manual. And I'm like, they do. It's called the Bible, you know? And the Bible. The Bible is super practical, you know, it doesn't. It's not going to tell you, you know, which college your kid is going to go to or what career they should have, or, you know, whether you should breastfeed or not. No, but there's a whole lot of wisdom in the scripture, Old and New Testament that can help us raise up our kids. And I wanted to point parents to that reality.
Yeah, but when you talk about biblical character, what are you talking about specifically?
Yeah, I.
Appreciate that because you notice it's not Christlike character. You know, a lot of people talk about Christlike character. And of course, becoming like Christ is the call to the believer. Certainly that's why we follow him. But you know what children have said to me, but Doctor Kathy, Jesus is perfect. You know, I can't be like Jesus. So it's a little bit off putting, potentially, without the kind of explanation that it would take a while to, you know, elaborate.
And and so the reason I went with biblical is part of that. That's one of the reasons. The other major reason, though, is I want our children. I want us and our kids to not just live as Jesus Christ lived his life, but I want us to also
live according to God's ways and God's will. And there's a whole lot in the Old Testament and a whole lot in the New Testament, not specifically related to Jesus Christ, that it is about character, including other Bible heroes, including, you know, the fruit of the spirit and the one anothers of the New Testament and the Beatitudes. And you know so much wisdom in the Psalms about how it would be wise for us to live out our lives.
And that's what I would love for parents to impress upon their kids.
Yeah. Now, Chris mentioned the whole concept of parents modeling this kind of lifestyle for children. How important is that for the child, you know, to catch this from their parents lives?
Yeah, it's so important. Right? Like, what are the adjectives that we could use? Like super important, um, integrity matters and children at a very young age are going to be able to figure children at a very young age. Will figure out if their parents talk is matching their walk, and when it doesn't, of course, they become confused and even angry. And when children are angry, they don't behave as well as you would like. So that's a real issue. What I would love to recommend parents do is talk
more out loud about what they are modeling. Don't assume that just because you model kindness, patience, goodness, or generosity that your children will automatically wake up one day and become those things? It's not necessarily true. I believe that much is taught and much is caught. And when we combine the two, it's really profitable. So as an example, talk out loud about why you made the decision you made, why were you generous in that situation and your kids
were there. They watched you do what you did. Why did you do it? Talk out loud? Because it's the reason. It's the why behind the what, right? It's the why behind the behavior that's going to motivate your children to be able to pick up on that because they honor you and they want to believe that you're making a wise choice, and now they're going to be more capable of doing that. I hope that makes sense.
Yeah, I think it does. And the other factor is this you mentioned earlier, of course, children are perfect. Jesus was perfect. Parents aren't perfect. So what would you say to the parent who realizes they're not perfect and they fail from time to time? How do they deal with that?
Yeah, well, welcome to the world. Right. Um, the, you know, the sin nature is real. And, uh, you know, parents today are overwhelmed and frustrated and tired and distracted. And there's just so much right that's going on. So first of all, don't panic when mistakes occur, when you even intentionally do something that's less than God glorifying. Like we all understand that. That's why we're here. You know, we're here to help you and what I know to be true.
And I think you agree that, um, when we're not perfect and we admit that we actually gain authority. Um, our vulnerability and our transparency shows children that we can. We are still learning, and now they're not as panicked when they admit that they're struggling. They think, oh, daddy might understand if I admit that I cheated because he's admitted to me that he kind of sometimes struggles with stuff.
I think it's very essential that we admit age appropriately, right? Developmentally, appropriately. What it is that's going on in our world. Yeah.
And then so we're modeling the whole concept of confessing our sins, right? True, true. Yeah, yeah. Is it ever too early or too late to teach biblical character?
It's not. Um, certainly the earlier the better, because then you have fewer bad habits to break. Used to coach girls fifth and sixth graders in basketball. And I loved that because they came in with very few skills, so I didn't have to break bad habits that I didn't like that another coach had instilled in them. I was able to start them off from a really naive position and teach them the way that I wanted my athletes and my my team to perform, if you will. So
the same thing is true here with characters. Start young, talk about it young, demonstrate it. Young. Have them, you know, act it out when they're young. Now, if you're listening and your kids are older, you're thinking, oh, I've got to do a U-turn. Yes. And you can do that. And it's it's never too late. This is where you, you know, you say to the oldest kid, you know, you're a guinea pig, you've known your whole life, you're our guinea pig. And you know, we've learned some new things.
We listen to a great radio show, we've read a great book, we've learned some new things, and we apologize for the mistakes we've made. And we're asking you to, you know, give us a fresh start and let's let's try again in this way, I think the earlier the better. The apology may be necessary. If your kids are older and you know why, I know it's never too late because my character has been influenced by even writing this book. You know. You know, Doctor Chapman, that writing is like
writing a book is no joke. Because, you know, I'm confronted with, okay, if I put that in this book, you know, then hello, integrity. I'm going to have to act it out. So I, I know that it's never too late to be affected. Praise God.
Absolutely. Doctor Kirk, you say there are ways to determine if a child's character is mature. What are you looking for in determining that?
I'm glad you asked that, because this is important to me that parents keep teaching, you know, don't tell and yell, but teach for maturity. Teach for growth and look for that. And there's three things that I believe are most important. One would be is a child's character complete. So as you know, in the book, I list 48 character qualities. One of my books has 120 character qualities, but I listed 48 in this book and I didn't want to overwhelm people. And there's a reason that I cut back
on the list. So of the 48 as an example, how many are my children able to use? So that's complete. The second factor that's super important is consistent. How consistently do my kids use the quality? Like if you notice that your child is capable of being kind, is she always kind or is she only kind to people she likes? Okay, that's inconsistent, and she's got a belief system that's getting in the way there. And then the third thing that I think is so valuable to look for is automatic.
How automatically do they use the character qualities. Because isn't it wouldn't it be great if at one point we don't have to tell them to be kind? You know, wouldn't it be great if there's a day coming when we don't have to say, oh, please be patient? No. So are they able to use the quality? How complete are there, are there how complete is their character? And then how consistently do they use the qualities. And then how automatically do we are children able to use them?
And if you find out that a child is automatically using a quality like Praise God and then every once in a while affirm them, don't ignore it every once in a while, affirm them. But you're not going to have to nag at them. And that's going to be such a refreshing feeling.
Yeah, yeah. Would you say that some of these character qualities are more important than others?
I would um, so yeah, thanks for asking that. I don't want people to think at 48, I could never do that. Uh, and yes, you can. You actually can do it. Many of the qualities you and your children are already exhibiting, I think you'll be encouraged by that. But I did come up with a baker's dozen 13, the top 13 that I think are significant, and from that there's a top 3 or 4 that I can quickly mention. The first one is gratitude. Gratitude is a
parent virtue. There's evidence, both in Scripture and in research, that people who are grateful develop many other qualities compassion and patience and generosity and optimism and joy and and inner peace and more so, gratitude is significant. Also, gratitude is evidence of spiritual maturity and it also creates a spiritual maturity. So when we talk to our kids about how much we have to be grateful for, like gratitude can't just be one week a year, or one day
a year. You can't just be grateful the month of December to try to get more stuff. You know, if I say thank you to grandma, maybe she'll give me more stuff. No. Gratitude should be who we are and not something that we do. So that's number one. And then joy is number two and not circumstantial happiness, but a real internal joy, of course, for the believer that is found in our relationship with Jesus Christ, so is is a child able to exhibit a dynamic, growing, life
giving relationship with Jesus Christ? Are we joyful and joyful and gratitude are like, what are they, cousins or siblings? Or maybe even a married couple? Like they're so close. Mhm. Um the research and again the scripture would say that grateful people are joyful. Joyful people are grateful. I prioritize those two because of what it does to the environment, in the home and to the heart of the child. The third one is self-efficacy. And to people who have
never heard that word, don't panic. It's an unusual character quality, but it's so important. Self-efficacy simply means that I believe I can be effective, not effective, meaning that I'm independent from my parents, but effective, meaning that I can do what my parents asked me to do. So when you say to your child, please empty the dishwasher or, you know, go help your sister get ready for bed, your child doesn't freak out and go, oh, I can't do that.
I'm only seven. No, you've trained your seven year old how to help the three year old. And when you say, hey, would you go help Elizabeth? She's like, sure. Like, wouldn't that be great if they're just like, okay, mom, no problem. You know, they still might complain sometimes, but kids who have self efficacy believe in themselves and believe that they're capable of doing what they've been asked to do. So you have less complaining, you have less arguing in those
kinds of things. And there's interesting research that suggests that these three are foundational to first time obedience. So that's why they're the top three in the book, not just because the Bible would proclaim the relevance of these three. But if you want your children to be obedient, like, I could have sold more copies of the book if I would have called it, you know, raise obedient kids.
But I you know, it's not about sales, obviously, and I'm not going to do that because what what we know is that when a character is changed, the heart is changed. And now they'll be well and do well even when no one's looking. And that's what, of course, we want. So I'll leave it at that. There's more, but those are the top three that I write about.
Yeah. Yeah.
How are children's beliefs connected to their character choices?
I love that. Um, so we teach at the ministry that beliefs cause behavior. And this isn't my rocket science. Like, this is just. This is just true. That what we believe causes us to do what we do. So beliefs are not hidden. Let me say, Doctor Chapman, that the fourth character quality, the fourth in my list of 13, is self-respect. And I'll throw that out there, because if children do not respect themselves, nothing matters. If children do not believe that they are children of worth, they don't
have to be good at anything. If children don't believe that God created them with good gifts and that they have a purpose yet to be discovered, just like Esther did, if they don't believe that about themselves, then they don't have to have healthy character or biblical character, Christ like character, obedience or anything else. So that belief that I matter
transforms everything. And then there's so many other examples, like if I believe my mom is mean, then I'm not going to listen to her with the heart to obey. If I believe my sister is preferred over me, I will be quickly jealous, quickly angry, quickly bitter, I will resent, I will not submit. It's going to be a mess. So beliefs are under the surface, but have to be dealt with in order for children and adults to make significant change that lasts.
So how do you deal with those beliefs that that we as parents recognize are not positive beliefs, are not true beliefs, just as just the examples that you just mentioned, how does a parent deal with it?
Well, if you if you're able to discover it, you know, praise God. Certainly you you look for patterns. You kids are old enough. Talk to them. You know, if you say to a kid, why did you just do that? Many of them will look at you like, I don't know, I just did it. Just like adults. I'll ask an adult, why did you just cut in line? And they look at me like, oh, did did I do that wrong? Was that wrong? Like, we're so patterned, right? And we're so selfish and arrogant at times. I think those are
huge issues. Um, so I would observe for patterns because that will often indicate, oh, it's always when the sisters in the room, or it's always during math or it's always on Sunday morning. So they're stressed about church. I wonder why they're always angry on Sunday mornings. So look for patterns and then you talk to the kids, but you talk to them in a respectful way, one on one. Not not with the siblings present. And you know, Jonathan,
we're sad. We're concerned for some choices that you've been making. And we've been noticing that often you are critically, you're like critical and irritable when your older brother is in the room. So we're guessing there's something going on between you and your brother. We want to hear your heart. So could you share with us what's going on? So I think we ask a really heartfelt question, and then we're silent and we wait. And you know what? You know?
You know this, Doctor Chapman, they often won't in the moment answer your question, but they'll come back 20 minutes or 2 hours later. Hey, dad. Hey, mom. I've been thinking. And it just it honors them that you care about what's going on. And I love that kids discover that they're not bad kids. They're not bad kids. They're not 24 over seven, 365 behaving badly in that way. There's
something triggering the response. And it's sin, you know, and they need to know that there is some control that they can bring to that issue.
Yeah.
How is character connected to family values?
Right. I hope that parents have thought about what they value, and I hope that they recognize that there's a family value. You know, God ordains the family before he ordains the church. And why are we parenting these children? Why are we married and why are we parenting these children, whether that be through birth, adoption, or fostering? What about the grandparents? Why am I invested in these kids? So there is a reason you are a family and character is what
allows us to make an impact. Character is what allows us to discover our gifts and use them for for God's glory. So that's how we pass on and maintain the family values, I think. I think it's essential just without character. We're nothing. Characters are reputation, character marks us. Character is the firm foundation of our decision making. Character is how we're known. And so if you have a family value of generosity, moms and dads, let's say that
you give to pregnancy resource centers. You give to prevent abortion. You give to the homeless or the hungry or to end trafficking you. You do more than tithing to your local church. You give to the building, plan to your kids. Know that. And why do you make those decisions? You talk about it and you talk about how you've chosen to be generous. Maybe your parents were generous and you learned it from them, and now you're hoping your kids are going to learn to be generous in times of plenty.
And in times of want. You talk about it, you demonstrate it. You use the Scripture to to show them that this is God's choice, that we would behave in these ways. It's not simple, but it's it's very doable.
Yeah.
I'm glad you mentioned generosity, because, yeah, I think there are a lot of parents who are generous. You know, they support various mission causes and other things, but they don't they don't really inform their children about what they're doing. I don't know whether they think they're too young or. But but really, we ought to let them in on what we're doing. Right?
Absolutely. I love asking children of all ages, what are some problems you would like to help solve?
Hmm.
And then we help them give to those causes. There's a family in my own church that they ask the questions of their children every once in a while, and unbeknownst to them, one of their sons was in a public school with a foster child. There was a foster kid in his class, and he noticed that that boy always wore the same sweater. So when it was time for him to clean out his closet, he said to his mom, hey, could I see if Kevin could? Could
I see if Kevin could wear these clothes? And so that mom contacted the teacher to ask permission to contact the parent to see if that was okay. And now that family, because of that little boy and one friend that found me now does respite care one Friday night a month for parents of foster kids so that they take care of the kids in the church so the parents can go have a date night. So that is a way that that family is generously serving with their
time and their talent. Because of a little boy who was invited to think about what he cares about. And then the other the other issue, I would say, Gary, now that there's so much online giving, kids don't even see their parents put money in an offering plate.
Mhm.
And if they don't have access to a bank account they don't know that we give to, you know, this, this college roommate who's now a missionary in India. Like they need to know those kinds of things because it enlarges their understanding of who we are.
Yeah.
I think what you're saying is really important for our kids, but it's also important for us, Doctor Cook, because we've become so used to the direct debit from the account that we forget. You know, we forget unless we get an email from, you know, compassion or whomever we're supporting.
Unless you get that reminder. Oh yeah, that's right. You know, my my child's name and whatever country we need to remember what it is we're doing and then evaluate if we can, you know, can even do more in different areas, don't you think?
I love that. In fact, I resisted the automatic debit from my, um, checking account for contributions for the longest time for fear that I would stop praying because when I when I, you know, made out the check and put it in the envelope and mailed it, at least that one day a month, I prayed for that cause. And yet I discovered that if I care enough about a cause, the Holy Spirit doesn't have to do a
lot of work to remind me to pray. Uh, but, yeah, no, we we do need to be thinking, you know, issues are different and our people using the money. Well, let's look at, you know, the research about giving and how much of it goes to, you know, administration versus, you know, real ministry. There are there are questions we can be asking. And why not sit at the dining room table and show our kids how we how we think that through how we pray that through and why we do what we do, I agree.
I think it's so important that we have let the children be a part of that part of our lives, and I don't know why. Parents, many parents have not done that, and they don't have that concept for some reason. But if they're going to if the children are going to grow up to have generosity in a heart of generosity, they're far more likely to do so. if they've if they've seen their what their parents have done, you know, in this area.
So yeah.
And if they've seen the benefit of what their parents have done. So again, to talk out loud about the cause effect, nature of what we're doing, the people listening don't know that generosity is actually the 13th of the baker's dozen qualities. I wanted an even dozen because it's
just nice, right? And I couldn't fight the fact, though, that generosity had to be on the list, I was stunned when I did the research of how generosity causes so many other beautiful qualities service, compassion, gratefulness, and so many other things. So generosity is not just again, money. It's time, talent, resources. And then of course, the money is part of the resource.
I think the answer to your question, Gary.
Of.
Why don't parents do this? There is a certain sense of, well, if I tell my kids, you know, all of this, uh, it will feel like tooting our own horn or my own horn as parents. And we want to be humble. And so we don't want to boast about all the things, you know, all the money that we're giving. But I agree with you that if they if they're kept in the dark about this or even kept in the dark about, you know, the monthly budget, about how much it costs
for this not to overburden them with it. But, you know, they're part of a team that is is working in a family system together. I think there's a there's a humility angle to that, not letting them in that we need to get over.
Yeah.
Yeah, that may be true, Chris. That may be true. But I do think we need to get over it. Okay. All right.
I love it.
Doctor Kirk, how can parents better understand what determines their children's choices?
First, I would.
Say we need to think more about what determines our choices. When we become more aware of why we behave the way we behave, we can better predict why our children might be doing what they're doing. And we'll begin to see the relationship between beliefs, the choices and the outcome. And then the other thing that we do is we observe better, we hang out, we put our phones down, we look with, um, an intensity. We listen with an intensity to understand, not to judge, but to understand. And
then we we try to get under the surface. Right. And was it jealousy? I've decided, by the way, in my work that jealousy is just huge in the home. Sibling rivalry, um, disagreements with parents. So much of it is jealousy. So there might be in your kids just 3 or 4 things they can't get over the thorn in the side, if you will, the sin temptation that is really, really hard for them. So look for the pattern, look for some consistency and then and then talk about it.
Talk about it is uh, something again that I think sometimes parents draw back from. But the reality is, if we don't discuss these things with the kids, we don't have any influence. If we're not talking about it.
Right.
They can't read our minds.
Amen.
I was just about to say that they they can observe, but they can't interpret it. Yeah. So they can observe what we're doing. Maybe if they care enough about us. And that's a big if in some families, sadly, but they can't interpret what was going on in us that caused us to do what we did the way that we did it. So we do have to talk. And I think you earn that right when you listen to them and you earn that right when you don't lecture.
I'm not. We're not talking about a long lecture. We're talking about soundbites and say, hey, Billy, did you notice what I did? Let me tell you why. You know, our neighbor just had knee surgery. I'm not sure you knew that. So that's why I went and raked leaves. He didn't ask me to. He didn't have to ask me to. I knew that it was a loving thing to do. And I had time. And it was fun. I loved the fresh air. No problem.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, there's no question that decision making is a huge part of a child's maturing. And all of us as parents, are concerned about whether our children make wise decisions. How can parents help their children feel safe enough to talk about or ask help in terms of making decisions. Uh, because I have I've run into a lot of parents who say, you know, I don't want to tell them everything they should do, you know? And I don't want to force them to make decisions that are not their decisions.
I want to and that's that's a worthy goal. I mean, we don't want to, you know, we want them to be to learn how to make wise decisions for themselves. But what what light can you shed on that topic?
Right. It's so important. You know, one of the hard things for parents is to let kids make foolish decisions and suffer the consequences of their foolishness. Now, I'm not saying let them run out into the road. Obviously yell stop! Yeah, but when you see that your child has forgotten a lunch like it's he walked right by it and it's a red lunchbox, it should not be hard to see. And it's right on the breakfast bar. But he walked right past it. Don't always rescue him and say, hey,
get your lunch. Sometimes let him suffer the consequences of his inattentive choice, right? And then another thing that we do again, I think we admit our struggles. We admit that we made decisions that were not wise, and that gives our kids a chance to find out. How do we know it was unwise and what were the consequences? And what are we going to do differently the next time? And basically, you know, to be present and available, no
child is going to. Kids tell me all the time, I'm not going to go talk to my mom if her phone's in the hand, if she has her phone as soon as it buzzes or bings or tings or rings, she's gone. And so, Doctor Cathy, I'm not going to have a hard conversation and have to start it over. So if you want your kids to come to you and say, you know, I found out this kid was gossiping about me and mommy, I don't know what to do. Your daughter's not going to come to you and ask
for help in that, you know. She feels that you won't understand, that you won't have compassion, and that you won't be available to long enough to problem solve. And yeah, we could talk all day about it. It's so important.
Yeah. I mean, you the whole thing about the phone and interrupting your conversation with a child because your phone rang, uh, I mean, it's just commonplace in so many families, you know, and they fail to recognize that what they're communicating is somebody out there that you don't know is more important than you are. You know.
Exactly.
Whose voicemail. Okay, let it go. Let's go.
Yeah. No, it's it's very hurtful.
And children tell us that they're not able to say that to mom. They're not able to say mom like they're afraid to say I was hurt when you answered the phone. Um, I know voicemail. And if they don't want to leave a message, then tough. And there's texting. No, and I have. I've actually started recommending that parents put their phone in airplane mode. You know, if you've never flown, you don't know what that is. But airplane mode you won't get you won't get any vibration at all. You
won't have any clue that anything is going on. If your phone is on silent, you can still realize that something just happened and you glance over at it. And as soon as you do that, your sons and daughters are thinking, yeah, she doesn't really care. And that's not what you mean to communicate. You know, no parent means to communicate that, but it's the child's perception that is what's so rich and important here.
Now you write that character traits are connected. That is, various character traits are connected. And that understanding this is a key to teaching character traits. Can you explain that a bit?
I would love to. It's one of the reasons that I have quote unquote only 48 qualities rather than 120, because I realized that if you teach one and you teach it in a broader context, you can actually be teaching 3 or 4 at the same time as an example. Um, and I discovered this when I was writing the book. I love to write because it helps me think I was in line to get on a plane in an airport. Long story. I won't go into it all, but I was patient. The people around me weren't. And this isn't
about me being amazing. There's plenty of days I'm impatient, but on this particular day, I was able to exhibit the quality of patience, and I and I finally got onto the airplane after quite a messy situation. And I'm like, why was I able to do that? Like I said, thank you. I didn't, you know, gripe at the people. Well, I realized that my patience was founded upon my other centeredness. I care more about others than I do myself. Compassion. So I was compassionate for the woman who was checking
us in for our flight. Optimism. Where I have a tendency to think well for people before I would think badly. And humility and flexibility. Oh, flexibility is top 48. Like being able to, you know, not have to be in control to not argue and debate every time there's a change of plans. So if you rather than, you know, be patient, be patient. Why aren't you more patient? I wonder if it would be beneficial to talk about, you know, if you would have compassion for your grandmother. Her neighbor
just fell and broke her hip. So grandma is scared now to walk. And when you run around, she gets nervous and you'll notice that she kind of freezes. I wonder if you held her hand and walked with her instead of in front of her, and walked slowly with her. That would oh, that would be so loving. And that would demonstrate compassion for the fear that your grandmother has. Could you do that for us? Those kinds of conversations connect beliefs to behavior and show them how the character
qualities are connected. And they honor God and they glorify God. And that's, you know, that's the bottom line. So I hope that makes sense.
Yeah. I don't know that I have thought in terms of that myself, to be honest with you, because I typically tend to see these traits as just isolated things. But in reality, what you're saying is true. They're not isolated, they're tied together, and one impacts the other. So that's going to help me. The next time I'm in the airport, ask myself, I love it. Why was I why was I patient.
I love it, why was I.
Not patient?
Why was I not patient? Yeah.
Yeah. When identifying positive character traits to develop in in our children, why is it important to also identify and talk about their negative traits.
I think sometimes the negative is easier to see. So our parents are frustrated by their kids being rude and inattentive and disagreeable and dishonest. So the negative is easy to see. We talk about it. Don't be dishonest. But the change process from Ephesians 422 through 24 would teach us that we have to take off the old self and put on the new self. So if you want a child to become honest, they have to take off dishonesty. If you want a child to become agreeable, they have
to take off the disagreeable spirit. So I think it's beneficial for a parent to see the connection and to decide what to talk about. And I would like us to talk more about what we want than what we currently have. So you talk about being agreeable rather than don't be so disagreeable, so use the word that you want your children to exhibit because they become who we
say they are. But when we know as parents, educators and grandparents that there's a negative we're trying to overcome, I think it trains us to talk differently and it gives kids hope. I've watched families, you know, take a whiteboard and make a make a list. I'm going to take off this and put on this. I'm going to
take off this and put on this. So in the back of the book, the appendix that I have for each of the 48 qualities, I actually list 4 or 5 negatives for each of the positives and our pre-readers have found that really helpful to go there and go, okay, I'm really bugged by this behavior. What's the opposite? Because you know what, Doctor Chapman? Sometimes parents are so tired, right? And they're so sick of their kids behavior. Like I get that, that all they see is the red flag.
All they see is what? They're driving me nuts. So we need to. We need to think. No, no, no, what would be the opposite? And then how can I make that happen through the glory of God, right.
Yeah. I want to go back to the you mentioned the lying because this is a common factor in raising children, that children do lie and sometimes just bald faced lie. Uh, how does a parent respond to that?
Well, with grace and mercy, because we've all done it with a belief that our kids aren't bad. There's something triggering the decision. Fear they're going to get caught. They have an expectation for themselves that isn't realistic, but they can't believe that they're wrong about themselves. You know, dad's going to get mad. Whatever. And the consequence, the consequences are so important. So if children lie, a consequence is
we check up on them. So if your son comes home from the neighbor after playing a while, you call the neighbor. Well, mommy, what are you doing? Well, I'm calling Miss Jane to find out how if you behaved. Okay, well, mommy, I just told you that I was good. Yes, but yesterday you didn't tell me the truth. So the consequence for your choice to lie is that I make a choice to call and check up on you. So this is. This is what happens when we catch you, you know,
with a pattern of behavior that concerns us. We're going to check up. And once we find out that you are telling us the truth again, you know, we'll stop checking up on you. But I think one of the things that's very, very important is to let them know there are consequences for their decisions, good consequences with good character choices and negative consequences when when they mess up, if I can put it that way.
Let's let's talk further on this whole issue of in what ways do positive and negative consequences build biblical character in children?
Right, right. I believe that all character starts with choice. All choices are rooted in a worldview, which is why a Christian worldview is so important. So when we have positive and negative consequences in place, like we don't get in the way of the way that don't always rescue your kids, let them suffer the consequences of their choices. Then they begin to understand, oh, this is why mommy said, be kind. This is why mommy said, don't gossip. This
is why mommy said generosity is beautiful. Oh, this is why dad said he likes that I'm resilient. He said that he likes that I'm not giving up and I'm trying more. And look, I did better today. So daddy was right. That resiliency is a good thing. So we talk about the cause effect nature. Again they don't necessarily think that way. We can help them think that way.
A true example was a dad who heard me speak about this, who forgot to turn in a report at work, and the supervisor knocked on the door an hour after it was due and said, hey, you know Ben, where's the report? And so the dad came home and said to his kids, man, I got to tell you guys I had a bad day at work. I chose to do what I wanted to do at work rather than what my boss told me to do. I know you guys have sometimes done that too, and I didn't get
the report done that he needed. So I'm not going to get to go to your soccer game tonight. And I'm so sorry. I've got to stay home and get this thing done. And I'm going to have to build trust. My boss doesn't trust me. I'm going to have to rebuild trust. He's probably going to doubt whether or not I'll do something right. So one of the things I did kids was I went into my calendar and I've already outlined that every Tuesday at 2:00 the report is due.
So that's now highlighted in my calendar, hoping that that's going to help me not make the same mistake. So we talk about the consequences that we've experienced in hopes that our kids will begin to put two and two together and get four. Yeah.
Yeah. I think it's important also, and I know you do in terms of when you have a rule for children, tell them what the consequences will be if they break the rule. So they know and you know, what's going to happen. You know, I remember my son, he had a relatively new bicycle, and I said, now let's let's have one rule here every night before, you know, you come in and we get ready for bed and all
of that. You put your bicycle in the shed and and if you don't, if you leave it out one night, then the consequences are you do not get to ride the bicycle the next day. Uh, is that is that okay with you? Well, you know, yeah. He thought that was fair, and I thought that was fair. So I remember the first time it happened. And so I said to him, I said, oh, Derek, I said, I noticed you left your bicycle out last night. And I said, you remember the consequences, right? You don't get to ride
the bicycle today. He said, oh, dad, but all the guys are going to be riding this afternoon. Dad let me ride today, dad. And and not tomorrow.
Um, and.
I said, you know, son, I can see how you would feel that way, because if you're if your kids if your friends want to ride, you'd want to ride with them. And if I were in your shoes, I'd feel the same way. But remember, we we agreed on the consequences. So I'm sorry, but I can't let you ride the bicycle today because, you know, you broke the rule. Well, he wasn't happy, but he never did it again. He never did it again. Amen. So I think if parents can get that concept that that, you know, let them
suffer the consequence. We tend to kind of cave in if they cry, you know, or yes, we should be empathetic, you know, but but let them suffer the consequences. Yeah. That's the way we learn. Oh, goodness.
No parent wants their kids to be miserable. But it's a short misery for greater gain. So there's two things in your example that I just want to highlight that I think are so important when you have a child say, I agree. You know, when you say that, you know, every night the bike goes in the shed and here's why. You know, it could get stolen, the weather could, you know, make it rusty, whatever. Here's the reason. And and so you've agreed and you have your son say, I agree.
And you teach your kids that their word matters. Jesus is the word. His word matters. Our words matter. We become who we say we are. So I agree, dad. And now then the next day you can say, now you agreed. So don't tell me that you didn't understand. And then the other thing is, when you say, you know, you say, no, no, I understand that you're hurt, that you can't ride the bike. But the answer is no. This is where parents and I don't envy them. This
doctor Chapman, do you have to let your no be? No. And you let. And then you maybe you distract the kid and you say, hey, why don't you. Why don't you sit and, you know, shoot or why don't you shoot hoops or, you know, do you want to come in and work on the jigsaw puzzle, or do you want to go walking, like, show them that there's alternatives, but let them let them suffer the consequences of their decision. You are not a mean dad and your kid is
not a bad kid. Something happened there. Love that example.
Well, let's, uh, as we come to a close today, uh, let me ask this. What if there's a parent listening today whose teenager has rebelled? They're out of control, and the parents really tried their best to do everything that the things that we're talking about today. What would you say to that parent?
Oh, way.
To end on an easy note, Doctor.
Chapman.
I would say don't give up. You can't give up. These are your kids or this is your son or daughter. So I would ask that you make sure you surround yourself with God's presence and the presence of his people, who will build you up and encourage you and, um, be in the Word of God, which is strength and life to you. The daily bread that you need in order to have the compassion and the love and the strength that you need in order to continually talk with
and and deal with a rebellious kid. Uh, pray and pray expecting. Pray regularly and pray expecting that God is on your side and is going to make a way. And I think I would, I would respectfully ask you to consider whether or not you have done everything we've talked about. Kids tell me, you know, my parents do a lot of telling. They don't really do a lot of teaching. Let me say that we drill and skill the ABCs and the one two threes, and we state
a rule and expect compliance. But because of sin, character and obedience are harder to teach than anything else. And that's why our example matters so much. And that's why direct instruction. Good old fashioned. This is the way we do it, not this way. It's really important. And I would say that we can say to some kids, some rebellious kids, some kids who are not walking well with us, we can we can explain that. We know we've let you down with, you know, the lack of of hope here.
We really want to start with a fresh slate. Could we do that on January 1st? Could we do that on February 1st? Could we do that tomorrow? Could we wake up tomorrow? And could it be a new day? And could you give us a fresh start as we're we're still learning to parent. And would you give yourself a fresh start and stop looking back at the harm and at the the frustration? So that's what's on my heart. Give yourself grace and mercy and and and all those things.
Yeah. I think that's so important. And the reality is, you know, we're not responsible for our own, especially our older children's things that they do or don't do. Uh, but but we should, but we shouldn't take that on as a burden that I have failed. Uh, yes. I think we should ask God. Lord, show me where I have failed. And, yes, confess that to God. And then, as you just described, confess it to the child and ask for a fresh start. Having done that, then I think what we want to do is try to let
our behaviour be different after that. Because that's what if the child is still in the it's still at home. They're looking for a change in your behaviour, if indeed you know you've been part of the problem. Well, let me not only thank you for being with us today, Doctor Cook, but also uh, for this book, because I think, like all of your books, they're very, very practical. And
I thank the parents who are listening. We all want our children to have godly biblical character, and this book spells it out in a way that I think is going to be very, very helpful to parents. So thanks again for writing it and thanks for being with us today.
Thank you for your affirmation. It's always a joy to spend time with you. Appreciate you a lot.
There's a lot of hope here today, and if you want to see more about Doctor Kathy Cook's latest, go to Building relationships.us. The title of her book is Parent Differently Raise kids with biblical character that changes culture. Again, go to building relationships.us. And next week, as we continue our summer best of broadcasts, the important topic of loneliness. Don't miss the encouraging conversation coming up in one week.
Our thanks to Janice backing and Steve Wick for their work behind the scenes. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
Thanks for listening.