As Christians, we recognize that the best for others is not only to trust Christ, but to obey Christ as those that have trusted him. And so we wouldn't want to do anything in our attempts to love that would undermine that good that we want to see birthed in them. It's the Spirit of God moves.
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. Well, how do you love someone? Well, who disagrees with you about LGBTQ issues? How do you stand up for biblical truth and still show God's love? That's the question we'll tackle today with author, pastor and professor Doctor Casey Huff.
The title of our featured resource at Building Relationships US is Doctor Huff's book, known for Love loving your LGBTQ Friends and Family Without Compromising Biblical truth again. You can find it at Building relationships.us and Gary. It's that last part that has me sitting a little closer to the radio today, because I don't want to be unloving to anyone, but I also don't want to compromise what I believe the Bible really teaches. You understand that tension.
You know, Chris, I run into this numerous times over the last few years, particularly with parents, sometimes grandparents, you know, who are asking questions about how do I relate to this? I mean, this is it's very disturbing to me. I don't know how to respond. I don't want to just cut my child or my grandchild off. And yet I don't want to affirm, you know, something that I think
is not right. Yeah, it's a common struggle today. So I am really glad that we are going to have this discussion today with Doctor Huff.
I am too. Let me introduce him. Doctor Casey B Hoff holds degrees in computer applications, biblical languages, and biblical Interpretation. He serves as the Director of Partnerships and Curriculum with world Hope Ministries International. He's also an assistant professor of biblical interpretation at Luther Rice College and Seminary. He and his wife, Hannah, have three sons and two daughters. His book, known for loves are featured resource at Building Relationships us.
Well, Doctor Huff, welcome to Building Relationships.
Thank you so much for having me.
You know, there must be a good reason for you to wade into this difficult subject. So why would you tackle an issue hot button issue like this?
You know, it's a great question. And Gary, again, thank you for having me. I think that in one way I could say that I'm tackling it. Another 1st May be that I, I in pastoral ministry was tackled by it a few times, um, 17 years of pastoral ministry in three different states. And the more conversations that I
had with my congregants, my own family friends. This just was a topic that continued to come up and was one that needed to be hopefully addressed in a way that's helpful and also full of hope.
Yeah, well, I can certainly understand that. And I'm glad that you took the time and energy and effort to wade into this topic. You know, the title of your book is known for love, and I'd like to hear you talk about the definition of that word love. I think sometimes our culture has a rather loose definition of love. How do you define love?
That, again, another great question that really gets at the heart of what I'm, I'm hoping to address in the book. And it's because the way that society is tending to define love is that love can only mean affirmation, full throated acceptance of a person and their lifestyle decisions. What I want to do, though, is I want us to look at how God has defined love in His Word. And so we're all familiar with the passage, uh, first
Corinthians 13. It gives us a lot of characteristics of of love, particularly Christian love, which is what we're seeking to, to demonstrate toward others. And, you know, there's many things that we see there. And I think what I notice probably most relevant for this conversation is that love does not rejoice in wrongdoing, but rejoices with truth. And so there is a way in which we love, but not in a way that it compromises truth or that it
it advances wrongdoing. I think that anybody who's parented knows that this is a very common sense way of thinking about love. It would be very unloving for me to tell my nine year old. Um. You want to play in the street? Go for it. It's. I want to be loving to you. Therefore, I'm going to affirm you in that decision. No. Love would also require me to say, honey, I want you to have fun. But I want you to have fun with these boundaries so that you're safe.
And so we have to recognize that there's this tension to where love can't just be defined by. You must accept me completely on my terms. We just don't function in society like that. And that's not a very helpful definition of love. So I prefer to look at what God has said in His Word regarding that definition.
Yeah. And I think that's that's exceedingly important, because real love is going to do what you think is best for the other individual based on what God has revealed, you know, about right and wrong. You know, in the first two chapters of the book, you really form a framework of theology for discussing these issues. Can you give us an overview of what you're talking about in those two chapters?
Sure. One of the things that I feel like can happen with a book like this is that it becomes an an answer key of sorts, where people just look for what's the answer to the question that I'm dealing with right now, and that I'll put it up? The reality is, is this conversation, this this debate in public life is one that is moving at a fast pace and that we can't anticipate all of the questions that
we're going to be dealing with. So I want to provide a theological framework that not only helps us answer some of the questions we're dealing with right now, but also gives us the tools that we need to think about questions that we can't even anticipate. So the first two chapters deal with creation and what I would call crisis, which is dealing with the fall of mankind. Creation expresses how God has created all things, man and woman. He creates marriage. He blesses it. He calls it very good.
He orders our bodies for that relationship as well and tells us to be fruitful, multiply, have dominion over the world and to reflect his image as his image bearers. That is good, and we should affirm that. But we should also look to it as an ideal that God
has for his creation. Not a few chapters later in the Bible, we find that while man and woman were made in God's image, and they were made to have fellowship with him through their own choice to rebel against God through pride and idolatry, they they chose something contrary to God's will. They chose not to conform to his standard. And the result was crisis that not only was contained, it wasn't just contained in the garden, but it spread
throughout all the earth through all their descendants. And so while we recognize that there are many, there's many good things within creation that we can affirm and celebrate. We also have to recognize that sin has brought this crisis where it's marred our understanding of God. It's infected our relationship with one another. It's affected our relationship even to creation.
So many of the things that we see in the world had a good start, but have devolved and sadly are oftentimes, uh, um, changed from what God intended them to be. Later on in the book, though, we we get to the great news is that Christ addresses the crisis and through his life, death, burial, and resurrection brings hope and restores us to that newness and that goodness.
And so it's not all bad news, though. There is some bad news we have to deal with if we're going to have a proper understanding of the world that we're living in.
Yeah, well, let's talk about marriage. I mean, you alluded to this just now, and the marriage is God's idea, not our idea. It's his design. So so what are the implications of those realities?
Again, I appreciate that question. One of the things that it reminds me of is when I was a child and my my dad, my dad passed away a few years ago, had a great relationship with him. He loved Christ. My dad had a lot of tools in the garage, and I wanted to try to build and do things in the backyard and was always constantly losing his tools. And the Lord was kind enough to give me children.
That helped me lose my tools as well. One of the things that my dad did in that, though, was, is he taught me that these, these tools were designed for, for different purposes. And so you didn't use a hacksaw to cut wood, you needed a wood saw for these things that the people that designed it had a purpose behind it, and that these tools work best when they're used according to their design. I think that in some ways is is very much related to the idea of
of marriage. Marriage, given that it's God's idea and in its God's design. We can't just take it and say, well, we're going to make this however we want it to be. We need to. We need to consult the one that's designed it and ask him and say, Lord, what, what what is the best way to have a fulfilling marriage and the best way to live in a way that brings you honor, that does much good. And I think that that's what this is getting at is, is to
say that it's his idea. It's his design. It reminds us that we have to go to him if we're going to understand how it's going to work best and not just view it as some sort of malleable clay that we can do with whatever we please.
Doctor Huff, I've heard a number of people say over the last few years that Jesus did not speak specifically about homosexuality, and neither should we. That's the implication. So how do you respond to that?
Yeah, so I have heard that as well. Um, you know, one of the things that I, I am seeing and one of the things the book wants to try to address, is there are a few chapters in the book that are pretty deep in the sense that I want to try to help Christians wrestle through and answer the objections that are often raised, and this is one of them. It feels like a very easy win for those that
have a revisionist understanding of biblical sexuality. They say, hey, let's look at all the times that Jesus taught in the New Testament, and you're going to see he never uses the terms that are often associated with homosexuality. Therefore, if we're going to take Jesus example, we shouldn't as well. And for some people, that's that's very that's very compelling. Uh, the the problem that I have with that is, um, it's it's multifold. It there are several things that I
think are difficult about that. One is to say that he did not ever speak of homosexuality. It is to assume something about the New Testament gospels that the New Testament gospels themselves don't assume. So, for instance, um, at the end of the Gospel of John, it said Jesus did many other things as well. If everyone were to write them down, I suppose the whole world would not
have room for the books that they were written. So in one sense is that recognizes that the Gospels himself are not an exhaustive account of everything Jesus did or taught, but specifically the things that were pertinent to the audiences that the gospel writers were writing to. So in one sense, the best somebody could say is this we don't have a record of him addressing homosexuality directly. The other part of that, though, is that it fails to recognize that
Jesus was was Jewish. Uh, Jesus in Matthew five through seven, um, often referred to the Old Testament in the Old Testament was Jesus Bible. He was constantly appealing to it. Have you not read? Do you not understand? He's assuming that the truthfulness of the Old Testament. He does this repeatedly. He assumes the historicity of certain characters in the Bible, and he tells us explicitly he has not come to
abolish the law, but to fulfill it. And if that's the case, then the law, the Old Testament has much to say how humans should conduct themselves in sexual relationships. It's a revisionist idea to say that Jesus didn't have an opinion or a view on these things, because he didn't explicitly address it. In fact, he addresses it explicitly in the sense that he refers to the Old Testament law. He refers to its goodness. He refers to his own
fulfillment of it. And he does not say that I have come to get rid of the law, but rather to fulfill it, and to achieve for us the righteousness that we so need to be made right before God. And so it's it's a sly way. It's, dare I say, it's a cheap way of trying to make a point that really can't be sustained. If you understand something about Jesus Jewish background, his affirmation of the Old Testament, and then, of course, what he just implicitly teaches about marriage in
places like Matthew 19. He is clearly assuming that marriage is between one woman, one man for a lifetime. Even his teaching on divorce and remarriage in that regard is very controversial among his disciples and the religious leaders of
his day. When people say that they just aren't taking Jesus seriously regarding everything, he has actually taught us about human sexuality, and I would encourage them if they're if they're doing that, they're asking that in good faith, if they're being sincere is to go back and read what Jesus is actually saying and see and ask yourself, can I really reconcile this affirmation of a sinful lifestyle with
what I've seen Jesus say here? And my hope would be that they would they would see that that's just not something that that can be done in good faith.
Yeah. Because the Old Testament is very clear on this issue, speaks very directly to this issue as a part of the law. You know, so you're right. Well, let's talk about Jesus and in his life and this whole issue that we're really discussing today about how do you love people without affirming, you know, what they're doing that's wrong? Uh, are there examples of Jesus showing love to others without affirming their sinful choices?
Yeah, there there are. And, uh, I'll be honest, I, I feel like every time that I read and reflect on this passage, I get a little bit more emotional thinking about it before writing this book and thinking about these things. I think I just quickly passed over Jesus interaction with the rich young ruler in Mark ten. Jesus is dealing with the rich young ruler. For those that are listening that may not be familiar with the story, the rich young ruler comes and he's a good teacher.
What must I do to inherit eternal life? Jesus questions him about what he means by goodness tells him that you understand the law. The man tells him, yes, I have kept all these things to my from my youth. And then verse 21 it says, Jesus looked at him, loved him, and said to him, now I pause right there, because if if we allow our society or our culture to define love and what it means to be loving to one's neighbor, or be loving to one who is
living a lifestyle that's contrary to God's Word? If we allow the world to define that, then the only thing that we can expect Jesus to do here after it says he loved him is to say, well, come on then, you just come follow me and live however you'd like to. But Jesus doesn't do that. Jesus looks at him, loved him, and then says to him, you lack one thing. Go sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. And come follow me.
And it says, disheartened by the saying, the young man went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions. I would love to think that people recognize that we've never seen a greater example of love than in Jesus. And in God's Word says he loved the young man, and yet his love for him would not allow the young man to remain in this pattern of sinful greed. And so out of love he says, abandon that and come, follow me.
And we see that the response from the young man was he left disheartened, very sorrowful, for he had great possessions. So he ultimately ended up choosing his sinful greed over following Jesus. I think that's a tremendous example for us to see that love does not always mean that those that we show love to are going to appreciate the way that we show love, but also that love also calls people away from the things that will ultimately separate
them from God. And that's one of the most loving things that we see Jesus do, is calling people to repent.
That's a powerful example. You know, the word lifestyle is kind of a landmine in conversations today. If you talk about a person's sexual orientation as a lifestyle choice, they sometimes are push back on that. How do you deal with the word lifestyle?
Yeah, that's a that's a great question. I'll be personally honest. I haven't given just a ton of thought to the idea of a lifestyle. I don't I don't really know its sociological definitions and whatnot. But I do think, though, that in this conversation, especially regarding sexual orientation and whatnot, there is a tendency to Excuse that which may be understood as innate or just an involuntary desire that one has.
I find it interesting that this category of sexual orientation seems to get a pass within culture, while other things do not. Again, I'm not drawing a parallel here, I'm just trying to show examples of how I how I see an inconsistency here. If a person grows up in a home that has been plagued by alcoholism, some may say that they would have a propensity to alcoholism or
to addictive behavior. And yet, while there may be within us a a sympathetic response to that, if that person then goes and loses their job because of alcoholism or, heaven forbid, gets in a terrible car accident or something like that, we don't excuse them of of the consequence of that action, simply because there was a disposition that they had to it. It might cause our hearts to
be sympathetic. Uh, trying to be helpful in understanding. But just because someone is inclined to something doesn't mean that that is a natural desire that makes it okay. And I think that's why that second chapter of the book that deals with crisis, which is related to sin, is that we all have to recognize that every one of us was made in the image of God. We're also born in in sins, what we're told in the book
of Romans. And it's it's very obvious. Most anyone that would deny it just needs to go work in the church nursery. Whenever I my my four year old five year old's growing up, I didn't have to teach them how to be greedy and steal the toy from their kids. They just came naturally. I didn't have to teach them how to lie to get out of trouble. And so just because that's something that came naturally to them doesn't mean that it was something that is that is inherently good.
But that's the that's the goodness of the gospel is that in Christ we're we're made new creatures. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come. And so there is hope for us to be delivered out of patterns of sin. Even those that we don't feel like are things that we desire, that we that we go, oh, I would really not like that to be the case. That's the great news of the gospel of how he he delivers us and he sets us free.
Yeah, I think all of us, from time to time have urges, desires that cross our mind that are not in keeping with God's plans for us. Right? We simply allow those and followed those. We would be off on many, many side roads, you know, that are contrary to God's plans for us, for sure.
Exactly.
So you've addressed this somewhat, but does the command of Jesus to love our neighbors? You know, as we love ourselves, does that mean that we should be more accepting and less judgmental about those who are practicing homosexuality?
Yeah. So I think that, again, one of the things I keep coming back to in the book and in conversation is what do we mean by the terms that we're using? I've had people ask the question, Is Jesus inclusive or exclusive? Part of that comes down to what does a person mean when they say inclusive or exclusive
or accepting and less judgmental? If by accepting of one's neighbor, we mean that we love them, that we're going to care for them, we're going to do anything that we can to be beneficial and point them in the right and good direction. Then I can understand how the love of neighbors there could be understood as being more more accepting, if less judgmental means something like, I'm going to deal with my own sin, and my own need for Jesus
is a primary concern in my own life. Before I attempt to encourage others and correct them to abandon their sinful ways, then I think it could be helpful for us to think in those terms of being less judgmental. The problem is, again, people tend to read Jesus instruction whenever he says, judge not, lest ye be judged. For by the same measure that you judge, you will be
judged as well. They read that in isolation from its context, because just a little bit later on in that passage, Jesus tells his followers, don't cast their pearls before swine. And to follow Jesus admonition regarding pearls before swine. So not not continuing to give wisdom to those that rejected and don't have any value for it. Jesus is assuming that you have to practice some form of judgment to be able to discern who who the swine are. It's
kind of hard. But again, those those are Jesus's words. If by judgmental someone means we should be less discerning, I go, no, we don't. We need to be discerning. If by being more accepting someone means we don't need to deal with sin ever, I would say no, that
would be problematic. So a lot of ways I'd answer that question would be depend on what a person means when they say accepting and less judgmental because there's there's different ways, different terms that could be used there and that need a little bit of more refinement.
Yeah, I think if we love a person, we desire what's best for that person. And as Christians, we believe that what is best for that person is whatever the Bible teaches we should be doing or not doing. You know. Amen. So the Christian has a perspective on what is right and wrong. Amen. I'm going to I'm going to quote this from the from the book. You say we must guard against losing our awe and wonder at the glory of God Himself, who came to redeem us from our sin. Why do you say that?
I think that part of it is if I forget that I need the grace of Christ myself, then I will be predisposed toward a pretentious, self-righteous spirit toward others that will lead me to prayerlessness for those people that will lead me to hopelessness, because I will view people as sinners beyond the grace of God. And I think what's interesting there is, is when I look at somebody and I think, oh, that person is just gone, there's
no hope for them. That's in a sense saying that there was something particularly special about me that made me savable. But whenever you read Romans five six through eight, but God demonstrated his own love for us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. His love for me, for for you, for everyone listening, his love for us was not predicated on our our beauty, but upon his his kindness towards sinners. And so we have to guard against losing the sense of awe of just
what God has done to save us. And I think if we reflect upon that, that gets deep into our own bones, it will fill us with hope to say, you know, if he can save me, he can save anybody. And if he can save anyone, even whenever I see the things in my family or in my society or my community that are that are very sad and sometimes very dark, I still have hope because of who Christ is and what he has done. And so it preserves our humility and it also fills us with hope.
Yeah.
You know, Doctor Huff, I think we tend to identify ourselves and sometimes other people based on what they do. We think of a particular person, for example, and we think, well, they're an alcoholic. I mean, that's the way we identify them. That's what stands out to us. And sometimes we certainly do that in the sexual area as well. Uh, why is it dangerous to find our identity outside of our relationship with Christ?
One of the things that's helpful to mention here is that it's not as if we don't have identities outside of Christ, but rather which identity holds the place of preeminence in my life. And so when I describe myself to people, you know, I'm a husband of one wife, I've got five kids, I'm a professor, I'm a director, I'm an author. Those can all be things that are are true. I am an American. I am from Houston, Texas. I love golf. Every one of those descriptions are true.
And they and they, they have things that go along with them. The problem is, if I let any one of those identities become the controlling identity within my life, and it's not my identity in Christ. Um, there's all kinds of things that go wrong. One is that every one of those identities can let me down. I'll give
you an example. When I was a pastor, when my church was full and the giving was up and people were being saved and we were having baptisms, I, as a pastor, felt great joy on Sundays when the air conditioner didn't work and the numbers were low and the child ministry leaders didn't show up, I would be very down and depressed. And why was that? It was often because my true sense of joy was found in my
identity as the pastor. What I found is that there was an unshakable ness to my joy when I recognized that the most important thing about me was that I belonged to Christ, and that Christ dwelled in me by His Holy Spirit. And I think that what can happen if we allow other identities to creep in is they begin to exert a controlling effect upon us, where Christ just becomes an add on and Christ Christ does not like that. Christ wants to be preeminent in the hearts
of his people. So I think that's one of the dangers of when we find other identities outside of Christ, and we allow those to become controlling aspects of our person.
You know, in this whole area of homosexuality, it seems like the definitions of that word have begun to shift over time. How is the term homosexuality a moving target in our culture?
I'm not old, but I'm old enough to have not grown up with the internet. We got the internet whenever I think I was in middle school And that was the dial up. There'll be some people listening to this that don't have any idea what I'm talking about. I even mentioned that in the book, is that there was a time when if you wanted to hear a song on the radio, you had to. If you wanted to hear a song at all, you had to call the radio station for the request line. And it was just
a different time. And so, um, our language and speech, it had a slower pace to it. There were probably more gatekeepers to the way that language is used. So with the advent of the internet and really the the democratization of communication, where someone on Twitter or Facebook or Instagram or TikTok, they can have as much or more influence through a podcast or through their reels as many of the institutions that we grew up getting our information from.
I think that that is one of the things that has has produced this moving target of of language. And so there were, you know, years ago, the language of homosexuality would have more rightly referred to more of like a behavior. I think it's one of the reasons why we see translation slightly older translations from the 60s, 70s and 80s. They used the word homosexual to define some of the terms that we find in the New Testament.
But now we've seen translators recognizing that homosexuality has expanded, its definitions shifted and changed a little bit. And so now they're going for a little bit more of a formal translation of those passages in seeking to try to capture what those texts were referring to in terms of behavior. And so I still wholeheartedly believe that Scripture addresses what
we understand now in society as homosexuality. I have a whole chapter on that in the book, but I'm also understanding why translators now are are favoring more formal word for word translations of the Greek in an attempt to try to produce something that is not as susceptible to the change of language within society. But language changes so fast. I've got I've got two kids in high school, and they come home every, every week using some new word that I swore I would never be the parent that
couldn't understand the terminology of today's youth. But but they that things just enter into the English language and different concepts, and they're refined and changed and, and so I think that's what's happened with a lot of the vocabulary that's used in this, this whole public debate regarding gender and sexuality. So I think that's part of what's happened with, with the term homosexuality and how it's shifted over over the years.
Yeah.
Now, in the book, you refer to same sex attractions as contrary to God's will for his Explain that.
What I'm referring to there is this. This erotic same sex attraction, um, as being contrary to God's will. Um, in light of what we see in God's design for marriage, the culmination of of an erotic love. And I mean that in the best sense of the word, uh, with a sexual desire for someone is in the context of one man and one woman for marriage, geared toward, uh, the rearing of children being fruitful and multiplying and that
any type of sexual desire outside of that. So not just same sex sexual desires or attractions, but any desire. So when Jesus talks about when a man looks at another woman with lust in his heart, he's already committed adultery with her. Anything that is outside that covenantal context of marriage between one man and one woman is is contrary to God's will for our sexual desires. We see this in creation. We see Jesus affirming this in the sermon on the Mount and in Matthew 19 when he
talks about marriage. And so that's that's what I'm I'm getting at. And the reason why I address same sex attraction in the book is because there is somewhat of a movement among some professing Christians, some that would have more of a revisionist or deconstructionist type of approach to reading scripture that would say the Bible doesn't address this at all. These are natural. These are things that we
shouldn't repress, but we should actually celebrate. And I find that to be contrary not only to the ideal that we find in Scripture, but the instructions that we see in the New Testament as well, regarding God's will for our sexual desire.
Yeah.
To what extent do you believe that the devaluing of marriage in our society and in no fault divorces have contributed to to kind of a redefinition of marriage.
I think that one of the things that we have seen in society is marriage viewed with with disdain. And even the way that I I'm not going to say any names here, but I, I recall a Christian comedian that told a joke at a Christian gathering. The context, the joke was something to the effect of his wife mentioned to him, why are you looking at other women while we're out at this event or something like that? And and the joke was, honey, I'm, I'm just window shopping.
I don't I don't intend to buy anything. I was kind of flabbergasted. I was thinking, surely I didn't just hear that and went back and listened to it. That type of attitude toward marriage, I think, is what has led within culture to this idea of we can just
kind of shape it however we want to. And eventually if if marriage is just something that you can enter into and out of at leisure, that your your vows can be broken before God and men eventually down the road, you get to the point where you're you're questioning the very nature of what marriage is. And I don't think that whenever these things were happening in the context of the United States, that we fully understood what's going to happen when marriage is viewed as as something not to
be held in honor? You know, that's that's one of the things that the author of Hebrews mentions in Hebrews 13 to honor the marriage bed, that there is a sanctity, that it's it's not the punch line of a joke. It's it's something that God has embedded into the fabric of creation to point to Christ's relationship to his church. And so as we slowly devalue marriage, we eventually think that it's ours to redefine and shape how we like.
And it's had tragic, tragic, uh, results within society. There's a there's a great book I would encourage people to take take a look at it. It's called Get Married by Brad Wilcox. He's a sociologist at the University of Virginia who's written on, on the impact of of what happens and what happens to children and what happens with just from a sociological aspect of when a society devalues marriage,
what happens? It has tragic results. We as Christians have not only this natural observation in the world, but also the special revelation of God's Word that shows us that marriage is not ours to redefine. It is ours to hold in high regard and honor above, above all else.
Speak to the parent whose son or daughter has come home to them, and reveal to them that they are in their own minds, their homosexual. And the parent is obviously very, very devastated. What would you say to that parent?
Thank you for that question, because that in so many ways, when I say that I want a book that's helpful and hopeful, that is that is what I'm getting at. I have not written the book primarily just to answer a bunch of questions that float around on social media, but rather the ones that are being asked at dinner tables and in living rooms. And so what I want parents to, to see. And so I'm, I'm going to, to make the assumption here that these are, these are
parents that hold to a Christian faith. They're practicing Christians and they love Christ. They recognize that they haven't they didn't do everything great or right as a parent, but they love their kids and they're wrestling with this tension of how do I love them without without affirming them, but while also maintaining the relationship. All kinds of things come to mind here. And there's there's a good bit
in the book that talks about this. One of the things that parents have to recognize is they're still called to love and parent their child. God, in his kindness, put that child in their life, in their family at this time and place within history for his glory and their good. And so they don't need to look at this as, Lord, why are you doing this to me? They need to look at it as an opportunity to cry out to the Lord and hope in him. And my hope would be that they would be in a
good church, that that doesn't bring shame upon them. Um, I've heard stories, sadly, of parents that have wrestled with this that say, you know, I can't even bring this up as a prayer request at my church because my church wouldn't wouldn't know what to do with me. That's that's a sad place to be. And I don't wish that upon anybody. I hope that people are in churches
that can that can help them. And so one of the things is, is you're going to want to continue to affirm that child in everything that you can affirm them in without affirming them in their sin. So there's a lot of things that you can do that with. Maybe their career, maybe their education, maybe their athletics depends on the age of the child, I guess. But there's there's ways that you continue to love them and show that you're for them. You're not against them. So that
would be that would be one thing. The other thing would be to say whatever shame that you feel, bring it to the cross. Christ Jesus is kind to us. He he does not put out the smoking flax nor the bruised reed. Uh, and so it's not as if when we come to him in our sense of need, that he is going to go. I can't believe you're bringing me this and that. You want me to help and intervene in this, in this situation, in a practical way.
I think that depending upon the nature of the relationship and the degree to which the parent has been able to have these types of conversations, I think it's important that Christian parents speak the truth in love. I don't think that that means that every conversation that they have with the child has to be about this issue. The flip side of that would be, you also have to recognize that there are things that you can do, and there's things that you can't do as a parent and
the things that you can do as a parent. It's the same type of thing that we see Paul doing in the church in Corinth, when he speaks of his ministry and Apollos ministry. Paul plants the gospel seed, Apollos waters the gospel seed. But ultimately it is God who brings the growth and the increase to that seed. Parents need to recognize that they're not God. And most parents would go, well, I know that I'm not. But there's an inordinate amount of pressure that a parent can feel
to change the hearts and lives of their children. But the reality is, is only God can do that. And so be faithful to sow the gospel seed to water, the gospel seed to pray that God would do, and then trust him to do what only he can do. And I would just say, I think that's a pretty good parenting philosophy across the board. I want all of my kids to love Christ, and three of my children have made professions of faith, and I'm I'm grateful for that.
But I also recognize that the growth that I want to see in my kids, I can help along the way by planting and watering seeds. But ultimately, it's going to be the God of that gospel through the work of the Holy Spirit doing that work in my children. And so let God be God and let God be God of our parenting and our relationships and and entrust
it to him. Don't compromise the truth in order to be perceived as loving, but at the same time, make sure that your truth that you share is motivated by a genuine love and affection that is rooted in that familial relationship that you have and to where they know, hey, my mom and dad, even though they disagree with me and they don't like the way that I'm living and the choices that I'm making and the decisions that I've I'm considering, I know that they love me, and I
know that they are there for me, even where they might disagree with these decisions that I'm making and let God do what he can, uh, what he can do.
Here's a here's a question that many Christian parents have asked when their children reveal to them, you know, their sexual attractions and their involvement with someone else, and then they finally say, you know, Mom and Dad, I'm going to marry my partner. And I really would like for you to come to the wedding. What would you say to those parents?
Yeah.
I would say to them that this is where it's very important for you to remember. It is true that you are their parent and that you are called to love them. But before that, you were called to love and honor Christ, to honor God, and to honor His Word. And so before you are a parent, you are a
disciple of Jesus. In that situation, what I would say and I recognize there is a variety of opinions here, given that marriage is God's design and that God's design is between one man and one woman, that a Christian should not participate or attend or affirm any marriage that is contrary to God's design, and that they should do that first and foremost. As one who is a follower of Christ, I recognize that that can and will be
hard for some people to hear. But again, it goes back to what I was just sharing about entrusting God with the heart transformation that he can only do. And so I think that participation or attendance at a wedding could result in greater confusion. And ultimately, I believe that since marriage is God's design and his ideal between one man and one woman, for us to affirm any marital union that is contrary to that, it is. It is not something that we as Christians can or should do.
I know that people will disagree with certain aspects of what I'm saying there, but I hope that they would receive that coming from me as as wanting us to wrestle with what does it mean to be faithful to Christ and, and love others well, but with a love that doesn't rejoice in wrongdoing but ultimately rejoices in the truth. Yeah.
That's a very hard decision for parents to be sure, because we know they love, they want the best for their child. And yet here's something they don't agree with. They know it's not in keeping with God's original plan. Yeah, but I hear exactly what you're saying. It's getting back to that concept of of loving our children and speaking truth to our children.
I think you're exactly right. Is it's it's a love that aims for the best for those that we love. As Christians, we recognize that the best for others is not only to trust Christ, but to obey Christ as those that have trusted him. And so we wouldn't want to do anything in our attempts to love that would that would undermine that good that we want to see birth in them as the Spirit of God moves.
So your position, as I hear it, is that we are not to affirm something that is clearly a rebellion against God's guidelines in Scripture. We're not to affirm that kind of behavior, and at the same time expressing our love and God's love for that child. I mean, God loves them just as much as he loves us, and he wants to redeem them. He wants to have a relationship with them which will radically change their lifestyle. Right?
That's that's exactly right. And that's the same disposition that we need to have in our own progress and growth in Christ. Uh, Romans seven and eight are very clear that the declaration that there is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. The fact that we know that we are loved even as sinners, it doesn't make us apathetic toward our sin, but it makes
us go to war with our sin within us. Even for us, acknowledgment of the love of God should not make us indifferent to growing in holiness, but rather that recognizing that God loves us ought to empower us to want to be more conformed to the image of His Son, which he is working in us, which is the promise of Romans eight.
Well, Doctor Huff, thank you for first of all writing this book, and thank you for being with us today on building relationships. I know that there are many families that are dealing with this in our culture today, and I think this book is very helpful. I would certainly encourage our listeners to get the book and read it and share it also with their friends. So again, thank you for addressing this issue and for being with us today.
Thank you so much, Doctor Chapman, and I'm grateful for the work that you do and helping us love others well and really appreciate your time. It's been an honor.
Again, the title of our featured resource is known for Love Loving Your LGBTQ Friends and Family Without Compromising Biblical Truth, written by Doctor Casey Huff. You can find out more at Building relationships.us.
And next week it's one of the most difficult things to do. We'll talk about forgiveness in one week here.
Debbie bar, talk about the choice that sets you free. A big thank you to our production team. Janice backing and Steve Wick building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute.
Thanks for listening.