Was recently dating a friend who attends a different denomination.
How serious of an issue is this?
He has so much anger in his heart.
I love her more than anything. I want to save our marriage.
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Today we open the listener line and hear from you as you post questions for trusted pastor, counselor, and author doctor Gary Chapman. And we have some great questions today on our March edition of Dear Gary.
And it's our hope that something you hear today will help you in your marriage and your parenting. Maybe in your singleness. Especially on this Easter weekend when we celebrate the resurrection power God exhibited in Jesus. That same power is available to you and me, and I think you're going to hear some of that in Gary's answers today, that there's real hope because of the real risen Lord. If you go to building relationships with us, you'll find
more simple ways to strengthen your relationships. Like the book written by Doctor Chapman and Shannon Warden titled the DIY Guide to Building a Family That Lasts. Just go to building relationships with us, Gary. We talked about that book here before. Tell me again, what do you hope parents take away from this do it yourself guide?
Well, you know, I want to emphasize the DIY part, but also explain it. You know, the scriptures say without God we can do nothing. So it's not that you're doing parenting by yourself, but these are practical things that you can do in cooperation with God, in raising your children and in having a healthy marriage. Uh, it's really, really practical book. My my co-author, I've known for many years. She used to be on our staff as a counselor. She's now a counselor in another place in our city.
But it's just a really, really practical. That's what I would suggest. It's giving you things you can actually do that will enhance your parenting and enhance your relationship and your marriage.
The DIY Guide to Building a Family That Lasts. You'll find it at the website. Building relationships with us again. Building relationships with us. Well, on our Dear Gary broadcast, we take your calls and remember you can get involved by leaving a message for Gary at the number 866424. Gary, we'd love to hear from you. Today we have three calls about spiritual mismatches. So we're going to go through all three of these in order. The first is a wife who had this to say.
Hi, Gary. So the past about a year and a half, I've really fallen in love with the word, with Jesus, of getting closer to God. And I have a six year old and one year old who I am trying to build a relationship with God, with him. And my husband is just not. Putting God in the center of our marriage or in our family. He doesn't find it be important. Um, going to church for him is just like an action. It's just for a show.
Just for show. Now, her call cut off right there. But my guess is, Gary, you've got enough of the situation to respond. What would you say to her?
Well, first of all, encourage that she is growing in her relationship with God because that's always a positive. The other thing I would say is just remember, we cannot make people do things that we think would be appropriate, you know, for them. Uh, one of the things I heard her say was he's reluctant to go to church because he sees it as just kind of a formality or a ritual. The first thing I'd say is, don't preach to him. Don't preach to him. It's not going.
It's not going to help you demonstrate to him what your relationship with God is doing in your life. If he begins to see you being kind, as the Scripture say, be kind to one another. Uh, you know, treat it. Love your enemies. He sees you loving him unconditionally, speaking his love language on a regular basis, affirming him for the positive things you do see in his life. It will have a far more positive impact on his life than complaining to him about his not going to church
and not being a spiritual leader in the home. So you're going to influence him one way or the other. I'm just saying, let's have a positive influence by demonstrating to him the attitude of Christ, of loving him in spite of the fact that he's not doing the things that you really wish he would do when he sees Christ changing your life. It's going to have an impact on him. Now, again, you can't make him. You can't
make him turn to God. But that kind of example, it's going to be far more impactful in a positive way.
And you can pray, pray, pray and get other people to pray, pray, pray and and trust God in the middle of the struggle so that that's the first spiritual mismatch in a marriage. Now here comes the second one. Caller two is in a dating relationship.
Hi, Gary. Uh, I just had a question. I'm listening to the program on the radio. I really appreciate the things that you've shared over the years, but, um, I was recently dating a friend, um, who attends, uh, different denomination, just as a member of beliefs about, um, what Scripture teaches in terms of being filled with the Holy Spirit as part of every believer and just speaking in tongues, being an evidence of that, as well as just miracles
and healing and so forth. Everything else we agree on, uh, very strongly in terms of what it means to follow Christ and, uh, just love for him and love for others, particularly as believers for each other. But that was just an area of particularly more division for her and for myself. Um, just wondered if you have any insight in terms of believers from different backgrounds, how to navigate that as brothers and sisters in Christ? Thank you.
Well, this is a very common question. I think if people are serious about their relationship with God than if they're Christians, both Christians, and they differ on certain issues about the Christian faith. Let's face it, that's why there are denominations, is because we disagree on certain aspects of the Christian life and certain understandings of the scriptures. I
think it's good to discuss those things. I think it's I'm really glad that in your dating relationship, you're dealing with those issues because all of these things are important. It's just that some people put more importance on these things than others, and actually differ on some of these
things than others. And we have to think in terms of if you're dating, you have to think in terms of, am I willing to commit myself to this kind of relationship, even though we disagree on these things for the rest of my life? Don't think you're going to get married and change them. And they should not get married thinking they're going to change you and make you like they are.
I think being realistic about this, this is the issues that you you brought up and realizing, yes, Christians do disagree. That's why some people are in that denomination and others are in the nomination. I mean, we are members of the same family. We believe in Jesus Christ, and the forgiveness is comes through what he did on the cross. But we do differ on some significant things, and you
have to decide how significant they are. But again, don't ever think that I'll marry them and they'll change because that's not likely to happen.
Thinking about the tongues thing. If a person believes that you if you're a Christian, you're filled with the Holy Spirit. You will be able to speak in tongues if that's what you believe. Then, ten years down the road, he's not speaking in tongues. You know, you question if he's a Christian or not. I'm not saying that those two people can't be married together and love each other for their entire lives, but that's going to put a strain on that marriage in some way, don't you think?
Absolutely, Chris. And for me, that's the value of dating, you know, and not every culture has dating, but in our culture we do. And I think that's the purpose of it is to talk about real issues and things. We believe and we believe strongly, and how much we disagree on certain things and how strongly we disagree on them. And yes, there are there are places that just say, well, you know, I do have love feelings for you. You know, that in love thing. But that's not that's not the
foundation for marriage, being in love. You can be in love with somebody that's not even a Christian. And you are, which is a radical difference. Don't ignore those things. I guess it's what I'm saying. The process of dating leads us either to where we are willing to make a commitment, and ready to make a commitment and feel like that, that we have enough in common and that this thing is not going to be divisive because it can be, and it likely will be divisive.
Gary, this next question is so vulnerable, and I'm hoping that you have some good advice for this caller who is questioning whether to move ahead with marriage plans.
Hey Gary, my fiance and I are looking to get married and we align on all the primary theological, um, tenets of our faith. We believe in the gospel. We affirm the authority of God's Word. Uh, but we come from two different denominational backgrounds. Uh, he was raised Church of Christ, and I come from a Baptist background. Um, and we do not agree on the meaning of baptism. Um, he sees it as a instrument in our salvation, while I see it as a symbol of our salvation. And
it's an ongoing conversation. But I understand, uh, through listening to your podcast, that unresolved issues can lead to bitterness. And so my question for you is how serious of an issue is this? And, um, wisdom or counsel would you provide in how we can seek unity and, um, yeah, work through this. Appreciate your help. God bless.
Well, I think that's a common question. When people are dating someone of a denomination where they disagree on some pretty heavy duty things, such as baptism. Is baptism a necessity for salvation? Or are we saved simply by faith in what Christ did on the cross for us? And baptism is simply a proclamation, public proclamation that we have trusted Christ and turned our lives over to him. And it is a divisive issue. That's why we have two
different denominations. You know, you mentioned the two that you mentioned, and there are other reasons why we have other denominations, because there are other things on which people disagree and feel strongly about. So yeah, I think this is an issue also that that is has to be considered. Here's the other part of that. When you get married, which
church are you going to go to? And if you go to his church, you're going to feel uncomfortable when you hear the proclamation that he you know, his perspective. And when he comes to your church, he's going to feel like you all are not really Christians, you know, or he's questioning whether you are. Uh, but.
And then children, then the children come along and you've got to decide then. Yeah.
You got another another problem. I haven't actually known people where he goes to after they get married. He goes to his church. She goes to her church. Well, I do too. I don't I don't think that's good. I just don't think that's good. You know, uh, I think we need to be together in our walk with God. So, yeah, I think an issue like this in terms of a
marriage could be really a decisive point to say. I just don't see how we can walk together on this issue and it not be troublesome to us, you know, through the years. Now, other people may feel differently about it, and I'm certainly open to that. I do think it's a it's an issue that is that needs to be deeply considered before you would decide actually to marry.
Right. And I told you before we started here, Gary, I have specific memories of early part of my childhood when my mother, she was very much in that camp that she talks about her fiancé being and would argue there was a friend that my mom had named Mildred. Mildred Blake and Mildred would argue with my mother, and my mom could argue. Acts 238 to up and down. And she started listening to back to the Bible broadcast
and some other other Christian broadcast on radio. And I think that's one of the reasons why I do radio today, is because it made such an impact on her about, do I add something to what Jesus did, you know, do I have to do a work for God in order for him to receive me, or is what he
did sufficient? And it was after a very long time, and these conversations that they had that my mother and father realized in Ephesians 289, you know, and appropriated that and actually left that church, you know, left that teaching and moved moved to a different one. But it was a very difficult struggle for them to get to that place. Yeah. Um, and so I just say that not to not to twist anybody's arm to agree with me theologically, but to think that through, as you just said, think it through.
What is it going to look like five years down the road, ten years down the road? Because that's not going to go away, right?
Yeah, absolutely, Chris. That's why I think, you know, in the dating process, that's what we're looking for. How compatible are we in beliefs that are the most important area of our lives. And that is our belief in God, our belief in salvation through Jesus Christ and Him alone. So, you know, these these are these are big issues that we have to discuss.
Well, if you disagree with Doctor Chapman here, you call him 866424. Gary, leave a message and we'll see if we can't get to your question. Your comment on a future. Dear Gary broadcast (866) 424-4279. Since we are on a roll with controversial questions and they're kind of theological, let's hear this next call from a listener who has a question about church leadership and remarriage.
Hi, Gary. Good day. God bless. I have a question. It is regarding marriage or second marriage, and if so, can this person still be a pastor or pastor of a church? It's been a bit of a conflict between families with me and my husband, and I'm very confused. As to what the correct answer is. I mean, I know exactly what the Bible tells me. I'm calling to see if somebody with more experience like yourself can maybe shed a little more light on this matter. Thank you for.
Well, I'm not totally sure if she's saying that she is married to someone who is a pastor, or was a pastor and has now or is now in a second marriage, and she's asking, can he biblically be a pastor? And she says she knows what the Scripture says, which is the idea that pretty clearly that a pastor should be the husband of one wife. Now people have interpreted that in different ways. It can be one wife at
a time or some other interpretation of that. My own personal opinion of that is that if a person has is married the second time, they are not qualified to be a pastor. But I understand that there are others who disagree with that. We all are responsible for what we believe, and we should study the scriptures very carefully to try to make sure that what we believe is
indeed in keeping with Scripture. So that's basically all I can say about that is, you know, to me, the scriptures teach clearly that the pastor, a pastor, is to be the husband of one wife.
And that would be not not your your wife dies and you remarry like from divorce, right?
Right, right, right. Because, you know, when a when a wife dies, that's a whole different story, you know, but obviously this is an issue in the Christian church. There's no question about it. It is divided in many Christians.
Well, I'm glad we felt free to ask those kinds of questions. That's what we love to hear. 866424 Gary. Our next caller has a disagreement with you, Gary. We like those two. It makes it more interesting. At least he thinks he disagrees with you about he term, what he terms. Just accepting others. Here we go.
Hi, Gary. I know you just talk about people just accepting what they do. You know, my kid, one lady called and said her son was supposed to be a Christian, but now he's just living with a girl, and she wants to know. You know, what to do. I know you talked about being kind and gentle and all that, but Paul says, if if a believer is living in complete rebellion to cut them off, don't have nothing to
do with them. Don't even eat with them. How do you justify telling people that if they're having problems with a believer living in sin, and just be nice to them and kind of accept it?
Of course I don't. I hope I didn't give the impression you accept what they're doing. We don't accept what they're doing. I think, however, if we're parents and our children are doing things that are non-biblical, I don't think we should cut them off because we cannot have any influence on them if we cut them off. Jesus himself ate with sinners. Uh, let's face it. He spent time with sinners. Uh, so I don't think we should. We should cut off our children simply because they're doing things
that we disagree with. Now, we certainly need to verbalize what we believe. We need to let them know that we do not agree with what they're doing, and we're praying for them that God will convict them and will bring them to a place of doing what the scriptures say, whatever the topic is. I don't think we accept what they're doing, but I don't think that we cut them off and have nothing to do with them as parents because Jesus said, love your enemies, even if they are
an enemy. Uh, we're still to love them. So it's a matter of how are we going to express that love? And I don't think you express love simply by saying, I'll have nothing to do with you. I don't want you in my house anymore. I don't want to see you again until you get this straightened out. Yes. I don't think that's the way Jesus would have responded.
On the other hand, I think he might be talking about church discipline. You know, there's somebody in the body who is is sinning in an open way or, you know, uh, and they they don't respond to the loving encouragement from the leadership, you know, to, to change behavior. And they just in that case, there's church discipline, right?
Yeah. In fact, uh, Matthew 18, Jesus said, uh, you if someone's sinning, you approach them. If they repent, you forgive them. If they don't, you take somebody with you and you go talk to them again. And then if they don't respond, you tell the church, then the implication is the church will send somebody. Then if they don't respond, he said, treat them as a pagan. Well, what do you do with pagans? You pray for pagans, you pray for pagans. You know, you give food to hungry pagans.
You know you return good for evil. Uh, so, uh, yes. But I do think certainly in terms of church fellowship, there is a place for, you know, that we we we have to take some kind of action to say, you know, you are not you're no longer in fellowship with this church because of your living in sin. And we are praying for you and we if there's anything we can do to help you, we want to help you. But we can't accept your behavior because we've done everything we know to help you turn back to God. And
and so we're here. We're always here and always available for you. So yeah, I think there's there's that thing of standing for the truth, but being open to the possibility that forgiveness can come because if they repent, God will forgive them. I don't care what they've done. And we must also always stand ready to forgive pagans when they turn to God.
And I was glad that you called with that question, because it you know, there's something about the, you know, the disagreement or the way that you heard what Doctor Chapman said, that he can clarify here. I want you to respond to an email. Gary, uh, a listener heard a conversation with Kia Stevens. We had her on this program about overcoming father wounds. And here's what he says. This past August, after 22 years of marriage, our struggles came to a head. We've been in counseling since August.
We're working on unpacking our past wounds and gaining understanding of how those wounds have impacted how we work as a couple. This has been one of the darkest and stormiest seasons of my life. I'm still struggling as it relates to how we move forward. We don't have any acute incidents like physical abuse or substance abuse, pornography, infidelity, he says. In our marriage, it's more of a low hum of miscommunication, exacerbated by the wounds we both bring
to the table. My wife describes it from her perspective as death by a million paper cuts. I'm heartbroken to be learning just how much my deficit in the area of emotional maturity and subsequent communication struggles have injured my wife. I feel like I've been in a thick, disorienting fog since August, with very few glimpses of the fog receiving receding. I'm trying to hold on to hopefulness, and I know God can and does often reconcile strained relationships and heals
wounded and injured hearts. What would you say to him?
Well, first of all, I'm encouraged that they're going for counseling. Because when you have long term, long standing, uh, frustrations and disagreements and never able to resolve them yourself, you need an outside party who is empathetic with each of you, because each of you belong to God, and God loves each of you. And so an outside person can help you understand each other and understand yourself and what perhaps is behind some of your behavior. So I am really
encouraged that you're going for counseling. I would not give up, even if you feel like, well, we're not making a whole lot of progress. Uh, I would continue the process because it takes time to work through the pain and the hurt of the past. The other thing I would say is, uh, I'm assuming both of you are Christians. Uh, if you are, I would say every day ask God to give you the attitude of Christ toward your spouse.
That's what we're encouraged to do. And if in Philippians chapter two, let this attitude be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, who though he was God, he didn't demand his rights as God, but he emptied himself and became a man. And once he got on level ground with us, he stepped down further to the death
on the cross. Let that attitude be in you. So if you ask God to give you the attitude of Christ that I am in this marriage to you, and I want to do everything I can to help you become the person you believe God wants you to be. If each of you pray that prayer, I believe God will change your attitude and he will give you an attitude that's not selfishness. Not wanting your way, but wanting to know how can I best serve the other person? And I believe that attitude can change your life.
You're listening to the Building Relationships podcast. Find out more about Gary when he might be coming to your area. Take the love language assessment and much more at Building Relationships us. You'll also find today's featured resource there, the book by Doctor Chapman and Shannon Warden, the do it yourself Guide to Building a Family that lasts 12 tools for improving your home Life. Again, go to Building Relationships us.
This is our Dear Gary broadcast for March and we would love to hear from you. If you have a question or maybe a follow up to something that you've heard today on the program, call the number 1866424 Gary and leave a message. We may use your question here on the program. Call 1-866-424-4279. This is a really difficult one. Gary, listen to the heart of this mom who called us recently.
Doctor Gary. I've been listening to your podcast since. Over a year ago. My son left the house when he turned 18. It was so painful. He has so much anger. Hateful, bitter in his heart. We lost his dad 2015, so he was only 11 years old. As a single mother, I struggled. I had so much anger. I was angry, the situation. I was working full time, back to school, full time, pursuing my, um, my master's degree. It was really, really hard time for all of us. I didn't realize
how much trauma he had in his heart. And when he's 18, she just decide not to speak to me again. No matter what I do, send him letters telling him a story, what I've done. And he just kept reliving a traumatized moment in the past. A lot of background. I'm from another country. There were some culture differences. Um, not sure he really understood my culture, but he took as offensive as a minority mom, single mother, and I had. Traumatized on my end trying to counseling, but I found God.
Only God can heal my heart. But anyhow, he is not speaking to me at all. All he does is saying horrible things about me when I return to the home, no matter what we do. He's in college now. He wants to military so he can pay for his college. Um, as of now, I really want to help him, but I don't really know I should. Um. I just don't know what to do. Um, I pray every day. I told the God. I'm sorry, but I just want some hope. Sorry about that. Uh, thank you for all you do.
I have read a book less than your podcast. Uh, all the time. Um. I know you're awesome, counselor and pastor. Just pray for us. Thank you.
Well, Chris, your heart has to go out to this. Mom. She's recognizing that some of her behavior, or at least her behavior, was a part of what caused her son, Origen, to have an angry attitude toward her. The biblical story that comes to my mind when I hear this mother is the story of the prodigal son, who also left his his father and his family and ask his father
to go ahead and give me my inheritance now. And his father did, and he wasted all that his father had given him, ended up in the hog pan, and not only feeding the pigs, but also eating some of the things that the pigs were eating. And finally he decided he would go home and asked his father just to give him a job on the farm. It's always been interesting to me that father did not run after him. He did not go try to find him and make
him do right. He kept the farm going. He kept growing himself so that when the son came home, there was a place to come home to. So in this situation, I think I understand your hurt, your pain, because you see that you are at least partially responsible for his anger. But don't take the whole blame of that, because yes, you may have impacted him in a negative way and that may be the source of some of his anger,
but we're responsible for handling our own anger. And so you've repented of your anger and the way you've treated him, and God has forgiven you. If you've asked him, God has forgiven you. It's your son that's not forgiving you, but you can't make somebody forgive you. Forgiveness is a choice. We can apologize, but we can't make them respond in forgiveness. God has to bring him to the place where he's willing to forgive you, and then also willing to confess
his own failures in being angry with you. So I think prayer is obviously one of God's methods, and I'm sure you have been praying for him and I will. I would encourage you to continue praying for him. I think you seeing a counselor, I think you are seeing a counselor. Perhaps you were, but reaching out to somebody, a counselor, a pastor, a close friend, somebody who can
help you process your own emotions. Uh, because God doesn't want you to live the next ten years of your life broken hearted and being not able to function, not able to walk with God and use your talents to help other people. God doesn't want that. He wants you to live the life he has planned for you. Uh, you can't control your son, and God's not going to make your son do right and come back. But God wants to help you work through your pain and your
hurt and know that God loves you. God is forgiven you and what you want to do now is to walk closely with God. Find people that you can be involved with in a church and a small group, a family, uh, in the church, and walk together with God to discover things you can do now to minister to other people if your son ever returns, if God works in his heart and he returns, you're going to stand there with open arms and be ready to receive him, just like the father of the prodigal son did in the Bible.
So those are my thoughts. I'm empathetic with where you are, but I do pray and hope that you will continue to reach out for help in processing those emotions so that you can live your life. Don't allow your son's behavior to control your behavior.
What great advice. That's not to Gary Chapman. This is building relationships. You'll find us online building relationships with us. Here's a call from a listener in Europe, Gary. And first let me say his English is fantastic. Unfortunately, his question is kind of a desperate situation. Here's his call.
Hi, Gary. Um, thank.
You for the opportunity to explain my situation to you and to ask you a question. My wife moved out completely unexpectedly for me six weeks ago. Up to this point, she has never told me that she was unhappy or questioned our marriage. Um, she now tells me she has negative feelings for me and that her love has grown cold. I recognize the mistakes I've made, and I'm willing to do anything to save our marriage. But now she's asking for distance. We only see each other when we hand
our 16 month old daughter over to each other. Our conversation is currently limited to purely organizational, uh matters. She refuses marriage counseling or therapy and meditation. She said she didn't know if we ever be, uh, together again. How am I supposed to show her my love and fill her love tank when she wants distance and no relationship? What should I do if this, um, condition persists for weeks and months? I love her more than anything. I see my mistakes. I'm willing to work on them. And
I want to save our marriage. It would be so great if you could help me. Thank you very much. Goodbye.
I think any time a situation like this arises where a spouse leaves and really had never brought up, apparently never brought up the fact that they were very displeased in the marriage. Uh, it hits the other person and is a tremendous shock to them emotionally. I think the fact that he really wants to work on the marriage, he really is willing to work on the marriage. He is willing to to apologize for his failures. And he recognizes that there are failures. All of that is positive.
I think, however, we cannot make a person come back to us immediately just because we apologize to them. Forgiveness is a choice and sometimes the hurt has been deep. The hurt has gone on for so long that they have a hard time even thinking about forgiving and coming back and trying to work on the marriage. Now, here's one other question I would ask if I were able to talk with you personally. And that is, is she
involved in a relationship with someone else? Many times when a person leaves their spouse and says to them, I don't love you anymore. And so I'm moving out. They are already involved with someone else. I'm not saying this is true in your case, I'm just saying. Often that is the case. If that's the case, it's a much more serious problem. Because if she has loved feelings for somebody else and they're being kind to her, she's comparing
that to the relationship she had with you. It will be even more difficult for her to say no to the relationship she's now in. I think if that's the case, you best realize if there's going to be any hope for our marriage, I will have to wait until either she breaks up with the other person, or he breaks up with her, and then she comes back crying because of her broken heart. And that happens. That happens sometimes. The person she's involved with, if she is involved, will
break up with her and then she's broken hearted. Then she's more likely to come back and and be willing to work on the marriage. At any rate, I think you have to give her time. We cannot make a person forgive us, and we have to give her time to work through her emotions. I would say the best thing you can do is be kind to her when you do have contact with her. You mentioned when you pass the baby to her back and forth you have. You just be kind to her. Don't preach to her. Don't.
Don't be negative to her. Tell her that you are praying for that. You are empathetic with her feelings. You can understand how hurt she is and you and that you love her. No matter what happens, you love her. So I think be kind to her in whatever contact you do have with her rather than being negative. If you criticize her for what she's doing, put her down. She's just going to stay away because, you know, you're just she's saying, that's what I would have to live
with if I came back. All your all your critical comments. So. God can change hearts. And I think praying that God would bring someone into her life or some situation to her life that would cause her to think differently. A God is the only one that can do that. You cannot change her heart. You cannot change your mind. God can. So you pray and you seek to develop your walk
with God. In the meantime, if you are not involved in a church and a Christian fellowship, I would encourage you to get involved and to build some friendships and Christian with some Christian brothers and let them walk with you through this pain. Don't don't try to carry the load alone. Those would be my thoughts.
I'm going to call an audible here on the program today and not take any more calls. But I want to take you to Nashville because Doctor Gary Chapman and the book The Five Love Languages, they were honored at the National Religious Broadcasters Convention, and there were a number of people that were in attendance and Gary was handed an award right in front of the a river that was going through there. And I wanted to get my fishing pole out and fish for those catfish, those that
were swimming back there. But Gary, you spoke to the folks that were assembled there and you kind of walked us through what God had done in and through you. And I remembered this quote by Soren Kierkegaard. I haven't read a whole lot that he has written, but I remember this quote life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards. So let me take you down by the riverside. This is what Doctor Gary Chapman said in just about three minutes of his message to the people there.
We will never understand everything that God does in our lives. One of those was that when I went to Moody Bible Institute, I was planning to be a pastor. So I took the pastor's course because I only knew there was two things you could do full time for God be a pastor or be a missionary. And I thought, well, missionaries work in the jungle. I don't like snakes, so I can't do that. So I took the pastor's course, but by the time I finished Moody Bible Institute, I
really sense God wanted me to be a missionary. So when I went to Wheaton College to get my degree, I majored in cultural anthropology, which is a wonderful background for serving in other countries as well as time went on. Uh, we talked to the mission board because I was interested in teaching nationals so they could reach their country for God. And the mission board said, well, that would likely be in a college or a seminary. So you really need
to be nice if you had the PhD degree. Well, I don't even know that I knew what a PhD degree was when they said that. But I thought, well, you know, we only got one child, so let's just go back to seminary and get the PhD. So we spent three years and got the PhD, and then we were turned down by the mission board because of my wife's health. They said, we can't send her to Africa. She just helped me handle it. So here I am. You can imagine how she felt. And she actually verbalized that.
She said, you know, I just feel like I'm keeping you from going to the mission field. Well, it breaks my heart to hear her, you know, taking that kind of responsibility. And we really had a hard time wrestling with that, you know, asking, God, why don't you lead us this direction? And now the door is closed. And so we went through all of that and had a really hard time figuring that out. But I'm like, I'll
make the next 50, 40, 50 years fast. But, uh, he ended up teaching at a college here, a little college in North Carolina for three years, and then going to work at the church where I do now, where I have been all these years for over 50 years now, uh, and started a college ministry, uh, Wake Forest University's there. We started Bible studies on campus and had open house at our house for ten years, every Friday night for college students, etc., etc.. Well, staying on that staff and
kind of being pushed into counseling and writing the books. Uh, when the book started being translated in other countries, which really, really surprised me with my anthropology background, that these things would transfer to other cultures. And many, many, many of my books have done that now. I was in Hungary before the pandemic. They had translated 35 of my books in Hungarian, and they always send us copies and we open them up and we pray for the countries and
for the book. And one night I was opening up a box of books, and I looked on the couch and my wife was crying, and I said, what's wrong, honey? And she said, nothing's wrong. I just remember, we want to be missionaries. And now your books are all over the world. And I cried and I finally was able to say, okay, God, I get it. I didn't get it all these years, but I got it now. So God often surprises us by what he does in our lives. And I'm sure many of you have experienced that as well.
I wanted to play that for somebody listening today, Gary, who can't make heads or tails out of what God is doing right now because you you may not understand it even years down the road what this is. But sometimes he gives you a little glimpse, doesn't he?
You're right, Chris, and I think it's important that we understand that there are things that will happen in our lives that we will not understand, and we will even question God, but always run to God and not away from God in those situations. You know, there's a song that says when you can't see God's hand. Trust his heart. His heart is good. His heart loves us. His heart has good plans for us, and we may not see them at the moment, and we may not even understand
them here on this earth. You know, for example, my sister died at the age of 58 after an eight year battle with cancer, and here I am still going. All these years. I still understand that you know that will wait till heaven. Some things. However, God lets us see in the earth why certain things happen. So we have to trust God's heart because we know he's a good God.
I'm so glad I got to see you. Folks don't know when we do this program. You're in North Carolina. I'm in Arizona. Steve's in Chicago. We don't see each other. Even though it feels like, you know, I'm sitting there right next to you. But we were able to to shake hands and hug each other's neck where we.
We we were. And it was a great time, Chris. I really, really enjoyed that and saw a lot of people from a lot of countries. I remember a young lady was there from Venezuela, and she told me how much the love language book had meant to her, and she said to me, you have no idea how that love language book has impacted Venezuela. She said it is all over the country. People are reading that book, so you know God knows what he's doing. And once in a while he lets us in on it.
Yes he does.
Oh, aren't you glad? Okay, so before we conclude, let me give you the phone number. You want to respond? Do you have a question for Doctor Chapman? A comment 1866424 Gary 1-866-424-4279. We'd love to hear from you, and don't forget to check out our featured resource, the book by Doctor Chapman and Shannon Warden, the DIY Guide to Building a Family That Lasts. Just go to building relationships with us again, building relationships with us.
And next week. How do you find unity in the church when there is so much disunity here?
A great conversation with pastor and author of Harmony Pierre in One week. Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve Wick and Janice backing with special thanks to Chris Siegert. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in Chicago, in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.