And it still is, is so painful. And yet there is joy because she is healed and whole. And that's our ultimate goal anyway, in this life we have a hard time remembering that. But it's not about where we are now. It's about where he is preparing us to go.
All of those emotions flooded into our minds and our spirits, but God, in his supernatural mercy has given us the grace to.
Walk through it.
Welcome to building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times best seller The Five Love Languages. If you're going through a loss in your life, our guest today will give some encouragement. This husband and wife team want to help you take steps to rebuild your life during any season of pain.
Ed and Lisa Young will join us on this summer. Best of broadcast today and what a timely topic. If you are walking through a valley you didn't ask for and didn't want in your life. If you go to building relationships us, you'll see our featured resource, the book A Path Through Pain. And Gary, this is right where a lot of our listeners are living today, don't you think?
Absolutely, Chris. Everybody goes through some sort of pain, you know? Sometimes it's minor stuff, but it's still painful. Sometimes it's major stuff, which is super, super painful. So yeah, I am really glad that we're discussing this topic and especially this book with Ed and Lisa Young, because it's really a good book, and I think our listeners are going to find some practical help.
Well, let's meet our guests. Ed young is the founding pastor of Fellowship Church in the Dallas Fort Worth area, one of the most attended churches in North America. He's a New York Times bestselling author. Ed has written 17 books, is a frequent conference speaker. His wife, Lisa Young, gifted speaker, teacher, and Co-author. She has co-authored several books with editor. They've
been married more than 40 years. They have four children, six grandchildren, and their latest is A Path Through Pain How faith Deepens and Joy Grows through What You would Never Choose. You can find out more at Building relationships.us.
Well, editor and Lisa, welcome to Building Relationships.
Thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here.
Absolutely. We're honored to be with you today.
Well, we are certainly glad to have you. I think it's interesting you titled this A Path Through Pain, because most people want to a path around pain, a path over pain. But is is this the only way through the storms of life is you got to go through them?
I would say yes. I would say, I know you've heard this a million times, but you know, to to get to it, you have to go through it. And that's a pithy saying. It sounds really Great. And you know it's true. It it is a path through pain. There's there's no way we're going to escape this life unscathed. So it's something that we we all deal with.
Yeah. Well, your book deals with all kinds of painful situations that our listeners will certainly identify with. But one of those for your life was about your daughter, Lizbeth. And why don't you start and just tell us a little bit about what happened.
Lizbeth is our oldest. We have four children, and she was always just a a superstar, uh, person, whether it be in school or at church. She was one of of the key players on our staff. But due to just some toxic, uh, relationship choices that she made, she kind of went into a spiral. And in her late 20s, early 30s, she started binge drinking. What was unique about it is it was hard to discern or to see from even, uh, parent child relationship and also from a
boss employee relationship. Yet we we saw it. And what what what happened was she binged with with alcohol and mixed that with Adderall. And she she literally passed away in in my arms. So it it it still is even surreal to think about how it, how it played out and, and, uh, she was just an amazing, amazing woman.
Yet she had this struggle and this pain, um, due to I mean, she, she dealt with some, obviously some some depression and anxiety But she just had that had that day where that that toxic mix took her out. And and you know, obviously being being a pastor at least and I have been pastors we help start Fellowship Church 32 years ago. You know, our response is, you know, why me? Why God, the the anger, the doubt, all of those emotions just just flooded into our our our
minds and and our in our spirits. But God in his supernatural mercy has given us the grace to to walk through it.
Yeah. Well, Lisa, I read in the book that you were out of town, actually, when Lee Beth died. Uh, share something of your feelings and thoughts when all of that happened.
So this had been a journey, obviously. I mean, you don't just. Well, I guess you can just start drinking and then it happens very fast that you end, you lose your life. But, um, this had been about a seven year journey for Lisbeth where she had some highs and lows. Um, so it wasn't unexpected that I got a call, um, while I was visiting my mother in
South Carolina. We were. My sister and I were transitioning my mom to a memory care facility, and I had just landed in South Carolina, and I got a pocket call from Lisbeth, and I tried to call her back, and there was no answer. And then my phone rang and it was Lee Beth's sister, my daughter Leandra, who also had received a pocket call and had tried to call Lee Beth. And there was no answer. So I knew that although she had been seemingly doing well, that
this was not a good situation. So Ed actually drove to her home and found her. And we were, of course, on the phone talking. That's a dad's mom's parent's worst nightmare to to find your child, you know? So intoxicated that they're they're basically almost unconscious. And, you know, he got her dressed, sobered her up, took her to her therapist office, and they met. And it was it was
the very, very end of Covid. Well, you know, as Covid and the lockdowns, so to speak, here in the Dallas Fort Worth area, which we were more quick to exit a lot of those things than other places. And yet, uh, Lee Beth was very anxious, and she was I don't know, she just was very, just anxious, driven in that afternoon. And so they did consider should, you know, should she
go to the hospital. And she was adamant that she did not want to go to the hospital because of the fact that she would have to be alone and editor would not be able to go into the hospital with her. And that was still a protocol here in Dallas. So with all that said, you know, I was trying to figure out how to get home. Um, editor made a bed for her in our house, and, you know, he can describe better how it all unfolded, but it just was the worst of the worst that mix with
alcohol and Adderall. Um, her heart just started probably doing crazy things. We believe she had a seizure. And as Ed said, you know, he was by her side, and I was on the phone. The medical team came through ambulance and they took her to the hospital. And then, you know, the doctors confirmed that, you know, the brain activity was not there, that she she was not going to make it. So it just was a I mean,
it's catastrophic. What what can I say, other than you leave to go on a trip to visit your mom and help take care of things that an older person is going through. I mean, my mom was 94. Um, I could I could expect her to be near death, but a 34 year old thriving young woman, um, as Beth was, it was tough.
And, you know, to, you know, every father I think has these nightmarish thoughts now and then, you know, we try to mitigate them and tamp them down. What if something tragic happened? What if what if I lost a child or something happened to my family? And I remember thinking those thoughts and thinking, could I go on? Would I leave the ministry? Would I turn my back on God? That night I made a little bed for Beth in
a play room we have for our grandchildren. And I kissed her and I said, Lee Beth, I love you. You're going to be okay. I said, I'll be in my office studying. And what's so really supernatural about the situation is I was studying a message On Abraham and Isaac. And I was in my office and Lizbeth was asleep, and I wrote the line, he placed him on an altar. I just wrote that. And that's out of Genesis 22. And then I heard a sound like I'd never heard before.
I called her name, ran in there, and for the most part, she she was gone. So soon thereafter, Lisa and I were having breakfast at a 24 over seven cafe. And we, you know, in our doubts and tears and through anger and everything, we said, you know what? We cannot alter this situation. Alter. But we can alter it. Thinking about Abraham and Isaac. Alt r so that was the moment that we made the intentional decision to say, okay, through all of this, we're going to place this story
on the altar. And if we have an opportunity to share it with one person. Great. More than that. Great. And we want to tell the the story honestly, with authenticity and biblically. And that before God and by his grace, that's what we have done over the over the ensuing now years.
Yeah. Well, I think any parent who has a child is when they hear things like this and we hear we hear it, you know, but when it's out there, it's not with us. And it's deeply different when it happens in our family. But, uh, I'm, I'm glad that you all walked through the pain and walking through the pain, and and God is using it to help other people. And and, Lisa, later on, you found a journal that Lisbeth had had written. Uh, tell me about that and how that impacted you.
I would say Beth's journal was evidence that even in the midst of the hardest things that she was going through, and she knew that she was limping through life, there was an awareness. But I believe with anyone struggling with addiction, there's this lack of control. And she wrote in her journal, would record that, in fact, she was listening to speakers. She was very much a part of the messages here at Fellowship Church. And she would write in her journal
just various things about her struggles. And so as a mom looking at those, it it solidified the fact that her last worst decision did not define her life. She made a decision when she was six years old to give her life to Christ. And it was a very real, authentic, um, personal decision. Editor. And I, as parents, you know, you want to be a part of when your child meets Jesus. I mean, we're in the ministry, and we see kids all the time come to know the Lord through the
church or whatever. But editor would talk to our kids at night, tucking them into bed, and we would kind of set the stage for that moment when they might bow the knee. And Lee Beth did not do that at home. It was not with us. And she came out of children's church one Sunday and she had the biggest smile on her face. In fact, it was Valentine's weekend and she had a heart with a cross in the center. And she said, mom, this is my heart and Jesus is in my heart. And that was the best,
best decision she ever made. So looking at her journal just reminded me of that and the fact that it's tragic and and I, I mean yesterday even was a tearful day for me. I mean, any given day can be a tearful day because we walk with a limp. We're three years away from the time that she passed away. And it's still is is so painful. And yet there is joy because she is she is healed and whole. And that's our ultimate goal anyway, in this life we have a hard time remembering that. But it's not about
where we are now. It's about where he is preparing us to go.
Yeah.
And also too, I, I want to say that this event and of course I would trade anything to have Lee Beth back, but this event has galvanized our church and has done so many amazing things. Just when we shared this and what happened and what is happening in people's lives and you know, the church, our church fellowship church surrounded us and helped us through this. And once again, here I am a pastor. I just saw the beauty
of the body of Christ. You know, there there's so many terms in the New Testament that describe Christianity and describe the church. One. Another. One another one. Another one another. Yeah. So Lisa and I have have really lived out and been the recipients of that, but it was almost like two when this happened. And this is kind of strange. It's almost like people looked at us who attend Fellowship Church and they were like, okay, you know, you've preached
this for three decades. Um, is it is it is it real? I mean, is it authentic? Is all this stuff you talk about? Um, does it does it really play out for for God's, you know, purpose and plan and his glory? So, so that was definitely a part of it. And then Something else too, for us is, you know, it's so easy for me, I think more so than Lisa, I would guess. Who knows? But it's it's easy for me to jump into the river of
regret and try to swim against the current. You know, I would have, should have, could have, would have, should have, could have. And I, I truly believe that. Yeah, we're going to have regrets, no question. But there is a hand extended to us and it's a nail scarred hand. It's the hand of Jesus who wants to take us out of that river, out of the current and say, okay, even though you don't understand it, I have something for you. I have an awesome agenda for you. So not just
the why transition from why to what? Okay, what what do you want me to do, Lord? How how how can I, uh, continue to push the ball downfield with with this limp?
Yeah we know that a lot of parents have difficulty with their adult children. What would you say to the parent who is in the middle of trying to love their child well, but also knowing that we can't choose for our adult children? What would you say to them?
I would say that I heard something the other day. It's like one of those statements that you read on social media and it said raising adult children, keep your mouth shut and leave the welcome mat out. And I and that's so true in a lot of ways, because we always want our children to feel like they can come to us. And yet it is a tightrope, if you will, on what to say and not say. But I believe God entrusted our children to us. We are the stewards of them. And without jumping into the pool
of regret. because there are some things that I would say now that I probably didn't do well, then I would just say first, fervently and I mean fervently. Hit your knees and pray for your children. Pray for them. And when you have that inkling or that nudging which I believe is the Holy Spirit, call them, jump in if necessary and do certain things that you probably weren't expecting you'd have to do as an adult, a parenting
adult children. And don't be shy. And I think this is something I'd say to myself not to be shy about crossing some boundaries. If they push back and you see that it's not going where it needs to go, then maybe back off. But don't be afraid to push some boundaries that you might have set in order to protect their health and their well-being. And I would say
that's one of my regrets. And I don't know that it's a healthy regret, is that I wish sometimes I would have, just maybe have been a little bit more proactive and jumped into her space to try to help her along. But the bottom line is, is I couldn't fix it. I tried. Ed and I both tried to fix this, and I think that's what every parent, if their child is struggling, we want to fix it for them. And there's a there's a process in that and we aren't always able to to do that. We can assist,
we can help. But ultimately they are adults and these decisions are theirs. It's really a tough, tough, tough thing.
Yeah, I think sometimes parents tend to blame themselves, you know, after things like this happen. And, you know, what did we do wrong? I like to remind people God's first two children made a bad decision, and they had a perfect father. You know, we can't control our adult children.
That's brilliant. That's brilliant.
That speaks to me. Thank you. Thank you for that. Yeah, that's because I, I editor and I thankfully have leaned into therapy all a lot of our lives. And I have been seeing the therapist that Lee Beth actually went to and one of the sessions or several sessions actually, that we dealt with was my guilt and feeling responsible and what I might would have done differently. And so, as hard as it was, she suggested that I look through photographs and I know with photographs you capture the
highlights of your family. But I looked back over the 34 years of Lee Beth's life, and I saw so many things that Ed and I did well.
Yeah, yeah.
And I had to embrace that. And that's not to say we didn't make a lot of mistakes. We're humans. We're parents, and and we're flawed ourselves. So how we don't do this perfectly but leaning into God, His Word, the local church which our kids were brought up under such wonderful Bible teaching. It sets the stage for success. And so we did a lot of things right. And I have to remind myself of that.
Yeah.
And doctor too, I think that I believe too in, in just this, this pilgrimage that we've been on and, and sharing, walking through a path of pain. It's afforded a lot of people in our church and others that that we know to to talk and to share about their pain. Obviously, pain is ubiquitous and you can't really say, okay, we have pain on this level and you're on a lower level or whatever pain. Pain is pain and everyone walks through it. And I, I, I wrote the just the word path p a t h and I and
I thought about that. I love acrostics and like I wrote a purpose that always takes us the path is a purpose that always takes us to him. It's a purpose that always takes us to him. And I have tried to put that and keep that at the forefront when I have those.
Those seasons.
Of anger, doubt, remorse, you know, I think I think, too, that it's important to embrace the fact that there's no such thing as certainty that if if there if there was certainty, there would be no faith, and the just shall live and walk by faith. So I think it's important to, to to share that faith journey through it. And, and, and God gives us that capacity for faith. And then we somehow have that choice within it. And it's it's really a beautiful thing. But it's almost like with, with
Lisa and I, they're, they're two lanes. There's the lane of, of grief and then there's another lane right beside it of joy. And I would say the lane of joy, which is tranquility of the soul, overtakes the, the, the lane of grief. Not that we still don't grieve, but but I would say that as a follower of Christ.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, you know, I found through the years and I'm sure you have also in your ministry that many people, when they're going through experiences like this, tend to ask sincere questions of God, you know, how could you have let this happen? You know, did God create evil? You know, those kind of questions speak to those issues for just a moment.
Yeah. And that's a that's a common question. I would say the biggest beef against Christianity is how could God allow bad things to happen? How could a good God allow evil? And if you if you start thinking about it, obviously the Bible is not a book just packed with explanations, but it it's more about promises. But there are some explanations in there. The fact that we have a freedom of choice, which is miraculous, the fact that we have
a free will opens the door for evil. I mean, we either can choose God's way or choose the other. And we have chosen the other in our depravity and sinfulness. And because of that, we live in a fallen and fallible place, a broken place. So just the implications and the results of that is going to be bad things. So we always say God is good all the time. God is good. But I want to say God is good when things are good and God is good when things are not good. And we won't really know all
of the answers until we get to heaven. But I would just say that's something that Lisa and I definitely have struggled with. I mean, it's like today, you know, we'll have someone in our church and they'll tell us that they've been on crack and they've been a meth addict for decades. And then they met Christ, and they've been free and they're healthy and whole and married and having kids and everything. So yeah, we rejoice in that.
But also too, it's like, oh, sometimes a dirty little secret. Like, man, I wish that could have been Lee Barth. So yeah, it's an issue, I think that we'll always deal with why, you know, here we've lived a righteous life. Obviously not perfectly. And for something like this to to to occur. But again, we live in a place where it rains on the just and the unjust. Yeah.
So Ed mentioned that because we have faith, to have faith, you can't have certainty, so to speak, which is true certainty means that everything's just, you know, the way it is, and you have no faith to go through life. And we know that Christianity is by grace through faith. And so Ed and I, I mean, I would say more than anything, it's not about certainty, it's about confidence. I have confidence in who God is. I became a Christ follower when I was a child, like nine years old.
And I've never been like some spectacular sinner. I, you know, doing drugs or whatever. But I sinned enough that I needed a Savior. And so when I became a Christ follower, I just started doing the very basic things that seem so mundane. In fact, I would hear people give testimonies at our church and I would think, man, my testimony is so boring. I want I want a more exciting testimony. And here I am just, you know, having my quiet time with God most days, going to church, uh, living
the life. And I didn't realize how big those simple things like the Christianity 101, the basics of the faith, how important those things were. Because then when you're hit with something like, we've gone through. You have this confidence in Christ that he has never failed you yet. And believe me, this is not the only painful thing that Ed and I have gone through. In fact, the way we started writing this book, we were planning to write
a book on marriage. And as we were discussing I said, Ed, I read this article about things that couples go through that lead to divorce. And there were like ten of them. And you and I have gone through seven. So the fact that we've been married for 42 plus years is like, woo hoo! Yay, God! And so here we are doing this pain audit. And I looked at all these things we'd gone through. We've you know, starting Fellowship Church is
like starting a company. And that's one of those markers moving to a new location and not and being all alone, not having family or friends nearby. Uh, we have twins having multiples. I went through secondary infertility and then our old, our one of our twins struggled with an eating disorder in high school. Our son was born with a genetic disease called neurofibromatosis. I could barely pronounce it, let alone grasp the meaning of what it meant for his life.
So here we've gone through all these different things and those foundational faith steps of reading God's Word, listening to messages every week at church and being involved, serving and and sharing in your generosity and then just leaning in. It's almost like you are making deposits in your spiritual bank account. And when these hard things come, you have a place to go to withdraw the past. Goodness of God,
you've seen it. You're confident in it. And that's the best I can do to explain how you walk forward and you take each step as it comes.
Doctor Chapman, I want to ask you a question, if you don't mind. How how do you deal with that when people ask you, okay, how could God allow that? Or how, how, how could a good God allow evil? What what what do you normally say or how do you address that?
I think typically the approach I take is similar to what you were saying earlier, and that is, you know, God gave us freedom. And in freedom we have the choice to make decisions. And those decisions affect not only us, they affect other people. Yes. So many times we're suffering because somebody else made the choice to do wrong and disobey God. You know, and we and we, we're suffering. You know, our our child was the one that got killed on the on the not. And I'm not talking
about personally now I'm just giving an illustration. I got killed by a drunken driver. You know, they made a decision that affected my family. So. But because God allowed us freedom, this is a necessity. It is just going to happen. And it doesn't mean that God doesn't love us, that God's not with us. Uh, but, uh, you know, sin is a reality, and there's always consequences to sin. And it doesn't always it's not always our sin that
causes us to suffer. So. And I think the other thing I sometimes say is the reality is we are never going to understand everything that happens in our lives. It's just a reality. You know, I wrote I wrote my memoirs back during the during the pandemic. And just like, what have I learned through all these years, you know, and one of them that just really stood out to me was, you're never going to understand everything that happens
in your life. And I gave illustrations in my own life, you know, but everybody has things that you're just not going to understand. And that's where, again, what you all are talking about faith in God and believing that, you know, he he he will bring us through. He he'll bring us through this. So. Yeah. Well, let me ask you a question. This personal question for both of you. You mentioned the pain audit. You know, all these things that
you have gone through. How has this affected your marriage between the two of you?
That's a great question.
Brilliant question. I, I would say my my knee jerk reaction is it has strengthened it. Those those things were not easy to absorb, but I would say it, it has definitely given us a a deeper love, a more mature love. It has given us the ability to look back and go, wow, God took us through this. He's took us. He's taken us through that. So it's so it's given us, uh, God's guidance. I could I should
say in, in, in, in our marriage. And I would definitely add that this, this intense pain that we're talking about that happened three years ago with the loss of our daughter. It has it has brought Lisa and I closer to one another. No, no question about it.
And I would say to that, that the reason that happens is intentionality. It It could go either way. We had a good foundation in our marriage based on just, you know, our commitment to God and our commitment to one another, but also when all of these different things happened, it it created this need for us to look within ourselves and at the needs of our spouse. Like Ed
processes things way differently than me. I if God had just such a great sense of humor when he put the two of us together, and because I'm more of an I'm more of an introvert and he's more of an extrovert, I process pain by just hiding it, and then all of a sudden it's going to come out and then he's he will talk it. He'll verbalize it.
And so we had to recognize that, especially with this, the death of our daughter, we had to respect each other's pain processes and to look and notice things that maybe we weren't paying attention to before. Like, I had to notice if something was affecting editor and editor has definitely learned to notice me, and we've also learned to communicate better. To say this is my bandwidth is stretched and I can't do any more today, or I, I
just can't. I'm not at a place where I can go and do this at this moment, and just learning to respect that, that you're different and you're going to process pain differently and, and the open communication and all of those things, I would say went to another level three years ago for us. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. I think you're exactly right. If people don't process the reality that people handle pain in a different way, it can it can pull them apart. You know, like a husband. I've heard sometimes a husband say to a wife, maybe when they've lost even a baby, he'll say, no, look it's been six months. You got to get over this, you know? And so we can condemn each other. It can push us apart if we're not empathetic and recognize our differences and accept them.
I would add to that, you know, we have three other adult children who are married and our grandchildren, and we have a lot to live well for. In other words, we want to do our marriage well in spite of adversity, to continue an example for our children and our grandchildren, and also to recognize that they're grieving as well in their own unique way.
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Ed, you mentioned earlier your church family and how they responded positively to you. What are some of the factors, maybe that you experienced there, or our listeners who are in a church and have friends who go through these kind of things. How can they respond? How can a church respond? You know that will be helpful to people walking through pain.
You know, people have asked me, for example, okay, when a tragedy strikes, you know, what do you say or what do I say? And I would say it was the ministry of their.
Presence.
Their presence just being there that that carried us through. Obviously, I knew that they were praying for us. But those, those little things, whether it be flowers, a card, a text, an email, a drawing, anything, food. Oh, yeah, you know, food.
You know.
We're from the South, so we love.
The food. Whenever there's anything tragic, you definitely get a casserole. And those things speak volumes.
Yeah, and I didn't realize.
I didn't realize how important those little things were doctor. until this this happened. I mean, I was almost like, I guess I'm a type A well, in fact, I know I'm a type A personality and I, you know, when when tough things would happen. I was empathetic to a certain extent, but now it's just totally changed. So I would I would say, I would say that, I would say also to and this can be kind of dicey.
But they they have shared a lot of people in our church have shared some of the pain scenarios that they've gone through with us. So I would just say that I would say the consistency of of being involved in church, that muscle memory of attending church every week, of being in a small group where where you can share therapy. All of those things were were great, great support to Lisa and I, but I would just encourage people to share. You know, I heard someone say revealing
your feeling is the beginning of healing. And I think if we would do that, if, if, if, if those of us in the church would share, you would find out you're not on an island, that that people have a commonality with you that you wouldn't believe, yet the enemy wants us to try to process it ourselves. So. So those are some things that I would say as far as how the church, how how Fellowship Church has, has helped us.
And I could I add to that just a little bit?
Surely now the good stuff.
No. The vulnerability piece for Ed and I. I mean, if you think about it. So we're the pastors. I mean, Ed's the lead pastor here at Fellowship Church. I've been by his side for these 34 years and to be vulnerable in front of people and actually say, our daughter passed away due to an alcohol related Incident is a
big humbling statement. Yes it is. And yet, everything in our lives, whatever pain we've gone through, whatever joy we've gone through, we have put it by the best of our abilities on the altar so that God could use it. So we had to make that choice early on. In fact, the morning that Leigh Beth passed away, you know, God, you're big enough to take this shameful experience and use it for your good. And when people I don't know that it I don't know if people expected that I don't.
There were so many people who didn't realize kind of what Leigh Beth had been going through. There were those who did, because Ed and I are big believers in leaning into that circle of wise counsel, and we had definitely some staff members who were aware of it, but I think it freed our church up to say I could be vulnerable too. Two. That's great. And we began to share on a deeper level with individuals who were also walking through pain. I'll give you a don't as
a member of a church. Like what not to do. You don't want to when, when when you meet when you meet somebody who's had a loss, don't don't just start, you know, talking about your loss in that moment, like when you're coming to greet them and you, you feel. And I think most people do that very innocently because they want a point of identification. But at that moment it's more important for for you just to listen. And then the other thing is Romans 828 is such a
beautiful verse, but it's not a band aid, right? Especially for a gaping wound. Yeah. And it is a hope and a promise to hold on to. But we don't necessarily need to be quoting scriptures. Yeah Or saying, oh, but they're in such a better place. Yeah, because I know Lee Beth is in heaven, but I'm still in my humanity as a mom. I want her here with me. Those are all well intentioned things. But I learned and there are things that I've said before. So I'm preaching
to myself that that. Okay, that's probably not wise to say.
And you know, Gary, I would think to well, I would know that being a pastor and it's sort of a public position. Grieving publicly is is different than someone who who is not in the public positions that Lisa and I are in our context. And that's yeah, I think that's a little bit, a little bit unique.
Yeah, I think you're right. And I certainly agree that when a pastor is vulnerable and his wife and share openly, you know, what has happened and all. Man, the people identify with you, you know. Yes, sir. You're not just a voice up there, you know, giving things, you know, out of the Bible, but you're a real person. So, yeah,
I think from your perspective, you know, that's important. Yeah. Lisa, in the book, you know, a Path Through Pain, you share journal entries that you made while you were walking through this journey. I mean, you're writing your journals, your own journal. Why did you decide to first of all, do the journal? And why did you decide to include some of those entries in the book?
Ed's the one that really got me journaling years and years ago because he's he's always he's an artist as well. He draws and paints and does all these things. So I think he began journaling just to doodle, you know, paintings and little drawings, not paintings, but drawings. And so but he's always journaled his devotionals. So he just seeing him do it, I decided to do it. In fact, we recently moved and I had a box full of journals that are just filled with random things that the
Lord has shared during our quiet time. And that's that's kind of that faith deposit that I was mentioning earlier, is that I can go back and look at these journals and see various degrees of issues that I was dealing with and how God faithfully showed up and some of those things, though I, I think they're still unanswered. There are few, but he still shows up. And so I we actually were going through the one year Bible we had started at January 1st of 2021, 2021, I think.
And so we were going through that and I was just journaling, continuing to do this practice. And one of the journals that spoke to me greatly was the week before Lee Beth passed away, and I was referencing Joseph and the fact that Joseph had such highs and lows and how faithful he was to God in and through it all, and that, you know, whether he was in the palace or whether he was in the prison. God
used him. And I actually wrote, Lord, help me to take the worst scenario and use it for your glory. And that was five days, I think, before Lisbeth died. And I looked back over that journal and just was, wow, God, that wasn't a flippant prayer at the time, but I had no idea that it would be five days later that I would be praying it so earnestly. Don't let
this pain go to waste. Yeah. And that's that's. I guess that's how we decided to use some of the journal entries, because they were just so real to my heart. They this book is, is, um, we love all the books we've written and the ones Ed's written, but I would say this one is, is as much real and raw as you can get. And we it's not just our story, it's stories of others who've gone through cancer, who've lost a loved one, who just one was in a car accident and was paralyzed. And they all tell
that story of how God has faithfully shown up. And I think that's what my journal represents, is that I'm struggling and God shows up, I'm dealing with this, and God shows up and it's just those precious moments with the Lord.
But I think.
To Lisa, you say so beautifully how people go, man, how do you prepare for something like this? And you go, you said you can, and you had your entire life talking about those basics that you did. It's like you're depositing into your spiritual bank account, those those daily disciplines, those those moments with God. Then when pain does strike you, you sometimes might have to tap into the principal and make withdrawals, which we've done. But that's the importance of that walk each.
And every day.
It seems so insignificant at the time, carving out 15 to 30 minutes each morning, to which I believe morning is the best time. Football players warm up before a game. They don't. I mean, they kind of stretch afterwards, but we want to do the pregame prep and that's what my morning quiet time is. And it seems oh, it's
no big deal. It's it's not that important. And yet I will tell you firsthand it's massively important because God gives you things in that quiet moment that sustain you through life.
Well, we've only touched the surface of this book, A Path through Pain. How faith deepens and joy grows through what you would never choose. So I want to thank you all for being here. I want to encourage our listeners to get the book. I think whatever you're going through, you're going to find this book to be helpful. So thanks for being with us today, and may God continue to guide you in the ministry that he's given you.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Well, we hope today's.
Conversation has been encouraging to you. Whatever you're going through to find out more about Ed and Lisa Young's book, A Path Through Pain, go to building relationships.us again. Building relationships.us. Our summer best of broadcasts continue next week. If you have adopted children or you're thinking about adopting, hear a discussion about loving your adopted children well. Using the five love languages.
Don't miss the conversation in one week. Before we go, let me thank our production team, Steve Wick and Janice backing. And in Dallas, Kevin Bonnett. Building relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute Thanks for listening.