What would you say if someone outside your family asked if they could move in with you? Stay at your house, eat meals with you? Observe how you interact with your spouse and your children, all to let them see what a healthy family looks like. They want to know how it's done. Well, what would you say? Would you say your family's too dysfunctional to take on a border? Your family is not healthy enough to face that kind of scrutiny. It's a little daunting to know there's somebody who wants
to emulate how you live. But what if they see conflict? What if you have a bad day today? You're going to hear from a man who had that exact scenario. Someone asked him if he could move in with his family, and his wife and two children. Thought it was a good idea. What happened?
Oh, don't you dare touch that dial, friend. This is building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, who is the New York Times best selling author of the Five Love Languages. Today, we're going to highlight his book Five traits of a Healthy Family. Steps you can take to grow closer, communicate better, and change the world together. Could that be true? You're going to find out more today on building relationships and go to the website. Building relationships.us. I have to pause
here at the beginning of the program. Look at the calendar. Gary. Happy Veterans Day to you. I know you have a heart for military families around the world, right?
Well, I do. Chris, you know, my dad served in the Second World War going way back. And I will never forget receiving letters. I was probably 5 or 6 years old at that time. And he would write a letter now and then to my mom, and mom would read them to me and to my sister. At the end of every letter, my dad would say, now give
your mother a big hug for me and obey her. So, you know, I've spoken at many, many bases, military bases all over the world and really always enjoy speaking there because I greatly admire those who give years of their life in the military, and especially also now veterans who invested part of their lives in serving our country. So I'm hoping that all across the country, veterans will feel appreciated for what they invested in all of our lives.
You know, we sometimes just take them for granted, but we should never take them for granted. Yes.
Well, and service is something we're going to talk about here in just a little bit. But but I also have to highlight the military family members. There are wives and husbands as well now, but mainly wives and then children of military members and also parents who are making these huge sacrifices. It's a big disruption to their lives as well. And you talk about that when your dad said that he wrote that letter and your dad said, give her a hug. Was his love language, physical touch, do you think?
Well, I didn't know anything about love languages at that point, but looking back on it, I think it probably was. Yes. Yeah.
Well, I just wanted to pause here at the beginning of the program and say, Happy Veterans Day and all that. That means to you who are listening. God bless you, friend. Thank you. Now let me turn to the conversation today. You have been doing radio and TV and zoom interviews for decades and decades. You don't have any idea how many you've done through the years, do you?
Not a clue, Chris. I'm thinking hundreds and hundreds, but I don't know. I've never tried to keep a record of how many interviews I've done.
This has been one of the ways that people have found out about your ministry, about your counseling, about your ideas as a pastor, and then the five love languages. It kind of exploded when that book came out, right?
It did, Chris, and continues to explode every year. It sells more than the year before. It's been going on for 30 years. Over 30 years. I never, ever anticipated that that book would have such an impact and really surprised that it's gone to other languages. It's published now in over 60 languages around the world, which it's just humbles me to think that this concept is helping marriages all over the world.
Yeah, well, I had the opportunity to have Gary on my program on Moody Radio back in early July. We talked about the book that is featured today. We talked about his story, and my guess is there's somebody listening today who did not hear that and the interaction between you and the callers, Gary. But they're going to hear it today. How do you feel about that?
Well, I'm excited about it, Chris. I think any time we can use something we've done in the past to bring it up to the present, that's going to be helpful to people again.
Amen, Amen. So the scenario that Andrea painted at the beginning of the program actually happened to you. Is that true?
It's true. Chris. It was years ago. I was leading a college ministry in our church, and there was a young graduate of the University of North Carolina who said to me at the end of the summer, he had spent time in the summer working with our summer group, and he had just graduated. And he said to me, you know, I have never seen a healthy family. My
family was very dysfunctional. And I wonder, would you be open to my moving in with you and Carolyn and your children and just live with you for a year just so I can see what a healthy family is? And I said what any wise man would say. Well, let me talk to Carolyn about that. He had a job in town. He was working as a schoolteacher, teaching school in town. I talked to Carolyn and the kids, and they both all of them thought that's a good idea.
We didn't have an extra room. You know, we had two kids and we had a three bedroom house and two bathrooms. And I said, well, where is he going to live? And Carolyn said, well, you know, the basement is just empty sitting down there. We could just put up a wall on the corner and we could put a bed in there. And I said, well, yeah, okay. So John moved in with us and observed everything. I mean, he was there, you know, he was there in the
mornings eating breakfast with us. And when we had devotions with the kids, he was there at night when we had devotions, was a family. And, and he he just saw the whole thing. Fortunately, you know, apparently we were sane enough that he gained a lot from it. That would be my.
Question is like, what? What is he going to see that I don't want him to see, you know, and you didn't have a dog so he couldn't kick the dog, right?
Couldn't kick the dog. That's right. Yeah. He says it was one of the most meaningful things in his life because he said, really? I had no idea. I hate to think what my life would have been like if I had not been able to observe what a healthy family looks like. And of course, Chris, you know, Carol and I had a lot of problems in the early days of our marriage. So I was just glad that by this time, you know, we had we had kind of work things out. And we were we were moving
in a positive way because, listen, we're always growing. You know, none of us are perfect, but we're always growing, are regressing one way or the other. So yeah, but it was quite an experience. But our kids, our kids loved it. You know, he became their big brother and he loved, you know, interfacing with our kids. So it was a healthy thing for all of us.
Was there a point, you know, when you when you have like cameras that come into your home, you're always you feel like a sense that I'm being watched. Was there a time when you just forgot that he's there observing you and and you got past that and he's just part of the family?
Yeah, I think so, Chris. I think it happened pretty soon, really. You know, I kind of my background, you know, is cultural anthropology, where an anthropologist moves into a tribal group and just starts living with them, you know, and everybody's asking, who is this guy and what is he here for, or what is going on? You know, da da da da da. So it kind of brought that to my mind, that image to my mind. You know, he's an anthropologist
moving in to observe our culture. But really, you know, after a few weeks, we got the the kinks worked out on which bathroom everybody's going to use and how that's going to work out. It was really a pretty pleasant experience.
Did he ever load the dishwasher wrong?
Oh, yeah. He disgusted that we discussed that. He said, you know, he said Carolyn would sometimes ask if she could just load the dishwasher. She said, because I said it took me 20 minutes what she could do in five minutes because I was so particular, you know. So we ran into this normal things which you run into that people have different personalities and they do things in a different way.
What was the biggest takeaway then for him? Was it in the area of communication? Was it a spiritual thing? What did he say?
Yeah, I think it was kind of both of those, Chris, because let's face it, you know, our relationship with God is going to impact everything else. And, you know, he saw us having devotions with the kids at breakfast. It was just brief, but it was just a word of scripture, you know, and thinking about the day. And then he saw us at night, you know, with the kids. We read a Bible story and, and then go to their beds individually beside of them and pray. So, you know,
that whole spiritual dimension. But I think also it was communication because I think in his the house he grew up in, you know, his dad was always yelling and screaming at his mother, and then she would withdraw. And, you know, all kinds of things went on there. And to see us carrying on conversations, you know, like after the dinner meal every day, that was a part of the meal. As we talk about how our day went,
what did we discover? What was high? What was the low, you know, and just to see a family talking about daily life and processing. Together, I think was a very helpful thing for him.
And I think that really hits the nerve of what you want to do. There's probably somebody listening today who says, I'd take that, you know, I'd move in with the Chapmans and their family. You know, a few years ago when your kids were still at home, because I didn't grow up in a functional family, there was a lot of dysfunction there, or dad was out of the picture or whatever. And so I didn't get that model. That's what you've done with this book, five traits of a
Healthy Family. The subtitle is Steps You can Take to grow closer, communicate better, and change the world together. And by change the world, you're not over the top with that because you really believe that you go from the micro to the macro. You change the dynamic of your family and your relationships, and that filters out into everybody else, doesn't it?
Yeah, absolutely. Chris, you know, I think the family is the basic unit of culture. You know, I mentioned my undergrad and master's degree was in cultural anthropology. I don't care what the culture's like. The family unit is the fundamental unit of culture. And if we can have healthy families, it spills over into the broader culture. And I think that's part of the things that we're facing in our country today. With so much dysfunction in the families, it
just spills over into the culture. And let's face it, we were pretty dysfunctional in certain areas of our culture today. So yeah, I think and what motivated me, Chris, is I know that there's many, many people out there who grew up in dysfunctional families and they really don't have a concept of what, what's a healthy family supposed to look like. And so in this book, I'm really trying to be practical and just kind of spell it out
what it looks like. And I think if we can, if we can have a rebirth of of family life, it can affect the whole culture.
You're listening to Building Relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. Well, back in July, Gary appeared on a program called Chris Fabry Live, and he talked about a new book, Five Traits of a Healthy Family Steps You Can Take to grow closer, communicate better, and Change the World together. You can find out more about it at building relationships.us.
You know, I've heard Dr. Chapman talk about a lot of things through the years, and I felt like Gary can't surprise me with anything he says. But as I looked over this book, I was surprised at where he starts. He says the most important thing that a healthy family does is wait for it. Families serve. So let's talk about that. Why did you start there?
I think because, Chris, an attitude of service is fundamental to everything else in a family life. You know, if we have an attitude that you know, in this marriage, you know, you're supposed to make me happy. That's the main thing. You're making me happy. That's selfishness. You know, genuine love is serving other people. Peter said about Jesus, he went about doing good. Jesus said about himself, The Son of Man did not come to be served. He came to serve. And then, of course, to give his
life a ransom for others. So I think, you know, in Ephesians five, for example, when he discusses some things about family life, he starts off by saying, you know, submit to one another, you know, and that submit means I'm here to do what I can to help you. Just let me know what would enrich your life. And so I think when a person really is walking with God, they realize Christ is the model and we're here to
serve others. And that should start in the family. If I have an attitude of honey, how can I enrich your life? How can I make your life easier? How can I help you become the person you want to become? And she has that attitude toward me. Wow. That's going to be a good marriage. And then if we have children, we have that attitude toward the children. And we teach the children how to serve each other and ultimately, how
to serve in the mom and dad. And then we take it beyond the family and take the kids out with us, serving in the community, doing things to help other people. If children grow up with an attitude of service, you've set them up for a great life because nothing is more important in life than taking what God has given you and using it to enrich the lives of other people.
And isn't that, you know, I keep going back to the the upper room and in Jesus pouring into the lives of the broader community around there in the miracles, but especially these 12 guys. And right there at the end, he's right at the very moment where he's going to pour himself out for all humanity. You know, those who respond and give his give himself and they're fighting. They're dysfunctional followers. They are fighting about who's going to be
the greatest in the kingdom. And he has to bring it back again to that service and the washing of feet. He was that was what he was all about.
Yeah, absolutely. Chris. And looking back on my own life, it's this reality that changed my marriage in the first place. Because when I got married, I was self-centered, you know? I mean, I was happy, I was in love with her. She was going to make me happy forever. I could hardly wait to get married. And, you know, after a while, she wasn't doing what I wish she would be doing. And we argued. We didn't know how to solve conflict, so we argued with each other and and then we
lost the euphoric feelings. We had negative feelings toward each other. And and I was in seminary two weeks after we got married. I was in seminary studying to be a pastor and my marriage was in shambles. And I was just, you know, kind of mad at God for getting me into this. And when I finally just said to God, I don't know what else to do. Chris, what came to my mind was exactly what you described Jesus on
his knees, washing the feet of his disciples. And I really heard God say to me in my heart, you know, that's the problem in your marriage. You do not have the attitude of Christ. And Chris, it hit me like a ton of bricks, you know, I knew it was not my attitude because my attitude was, you know, if you make me happy, I'll make you happy. You know,
you do what I say. We'll have a good marriage, you know, and I just I confessed him and I wept, and I confessed to God that I had I had the wrong attitude and just ask him to give me the attitude of Christ toward her. And Chris, you know, and God changed my heart and gave me that attitude. Three questions made it practical for me. One was, honey, what can I do to help you? And the second question was, how can I make your life easier? And the third one was, how can I be a better husband?
And when I was willing to ask those questions, she was willing to tell me, you know, and and I began to do those things. And, Chris, I think it was probably three months before she warmed up to all of that, and she started asking me those three questions. But when they have an attitude of service, you know, you're going to have a good marriage and you're likely going to be good parents. So I think it all starts there. It's kind of fundamental.
You know.
The other thing that happened with you and Carolyn was you started to see how different you were. And I don't know if God pulls blinders over us or we just have them. We don't see that. But you, you know, you thought you'd go to bed together at 10:00, 1030. You'd read, you fall asleep. And she wasn't having it, you know, she was a she's a night owl. You're
the morning person. And and that resentment came in there that, you know, you're not feeling fitting the bill, you know, and that that was hard to get over.
Absolutely crazy. Not only the evening but the morning, you know, because I envisioned that we'd have breakfast together every morning and then have devotions together every morning. And then after we got married, I mean, she would get up, but she didn't wake up, you know, until 10:00, you know? So this ain't gonna work. So that kind of went out the window, you know? So all of my visions of how wonderful it was going to be turned out
to be not so wonderful. And I realize now, having counseled people for 40 years, I wasn't the only one that went through that. You know, many couples go through you kind of disillusioned with the way what you intended or you thought it was going to be like, and it's not like that. And so we have to start to rethink how do we have a good marriage. And
I think it begins with the heart. And when we have a heart and we have an attitude of service and love like Jesus, and he can give it to us if we're open our hearts to us, he wants to change our hearts. Then we start moving in the right direction. Yeah.
The five. Let me just give the overview of the five things. So families who serve. That's part one. The second is husbands and wives who relate intimately. And then you go into the parenting parents who guide their children. And then the response of children who obey and honor their parents. And the fifth then, well, let's wait on the fifth and go to our first caller for Dr. Chapman. Let's talk with Kimberly, who's on the line.
Good afternoon, everyone, and I love your five five, this book, I have it and I read it several times. Either way, I have five older brothers and I am the only girl. And once I got saved, I realized that my family was dysfunctional. I didn't know that before then. We weren't raised together. I was adopted out and now that we are adults, is very hard to get them to get along.
So they get along with me, but they're very dysfunctional with each other because they respect my walk with Christ, and I just want them to see the life that I've seen. So how do I coach them that way? How do I model my life that way? But how do I help them?
Well, I do think, Kimberly, that your model is the most important thing because even though you may feel like, well, they're not paying attention to any to my model, the reality is the model speaks more loudly even than words. But I do think also there is a place for conversation. And when you have that opportunity to them to ask questions of them, you know, how do you feel about where you are if they're married, how do you feel about where you are in your marriage now or if
they're not married? How do you feel like you are in relationship to people that work with you? You know, just kind of asking question, open ended questions that they can choose to come in and share what's going on, or they may choose not to. But as you engage them and asking questions, rather than taking the approach of let me tell you something that I think would help you, because when you ask those open ended questions, it gives them a chance to begin to reveal themselves to you.
And where they're hurting. And then in that context, you can often will have ideas and say, well, you know, here's something that really helped me in that area, and you can share it. So I think particularly with, with siblings, you know, grown siblings is what I'm hearing you say. The question approach is always the best approach to is the best place to start.
Yes.
But this goes back to something that you talk a lot about, Gary, and that is influence versus control. You. She cannot make her brothers, you know, love each other or serve each other or have a different opinion about each other or anything, but she can influence them, right?
Yeah, absolutely. And that that's really the key is that in any in any close relationship, we cannot make the other person change, but we can model for them a different model. And our model is an influence and conversations we can be an influence and but ultimately we're all free. I mean, we're free to do what Adam and Eve did, just ignore God's guidelines and live our own lives. And there's always a detrimental effect to that. And we have
to allow family members to be free. You know, their parents who raised children and they're Christians and strong Christians, and they take the children to church and and somewhere along the line, you know, in the young adulthood, they turn away from God, they turn away from the church. And sometimes parents say to me, well, what did we do wrong? You know, where do we fail? As if, you know, if we had been perfect, our kids would
be perfect, you know? Well, you know, we're free. You know, Adam and Eve had the best father in the whole world. God was their father, and they still made wrong decisions. So I think as parents, we have to recognize, again, we can't make our children do anything or turn out any way, but we can influence them. And and that's particularly true in adult, you know, as they're younger. Of course we yeah, we can make them do some things, but but ultimately they have to make choices on their own.
Kimberly, what's your response to that? Thank you.
I appreciate that because I am very adamant, like, you should do this. You should do that. And as long as they don't receive me, I just think it doesn't take root because it's feeling forced. Opposed to God is a gentleman and he's not going to force himself. So in this conversation, I realized I shouldn't force what I feel or what I know, even though I can help them on them. Let them talk to me and let and I receive what they're saying, and it would be better for them.
Yeah, but now comes the hard part right now. Now you have to do that. And that's what we're talking about today. On building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman. Do you identify with what Kimberly just mentioned? It means you don't control the outcome. You can only be part of the positive process and allow the other person or members of the family to respond.
Well, do you want a healthy family? That's what we're talking about today. I'm building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, New York Times bestselling author of The Five Love Languages. If you go to Building relationships.us, you'll see our featured resource today, Gary's book five traits of a Healthy Family. Steps you can take to grow closer, communicate better, and
change the world together again. Go to Building relationships.us. Today's program originally aired on Moody Radio back in July with Dr. Chapman and Chris. Let's get back to the conversation.
Gary. At the end of the last segment, I made the point that you don't control other people's responses. You cannot finagle the outcome, but you can be faithful to the process of, for example, communicating well. The five love languages or these five traits of a healthy family are not meant to manipulate somebody to do what you think they ought to do.
Yeah, Chris, I was talking about and we were talking about an active attitude of service toward the other person. You can't have the attitude that if I'll serve her, then she'll serve me. No, we have an attitude. I am going to choose to have an attitude of serving not only her, but serving people in my workplace and serving any opportunity I have in the church world and that sort of thing. It's an attitude and we choose
our attitude. We don't choose our emotions. You know, you can have negative emotions towards your spouse feeling hurt because of the things they've done or haven't done, but you can still choose an attitude, the attitude of Christ. Listen, he loved us while we were sinners. You might be married to one, you know. So with God's help, we can love them and serve them. But it's not with the attitude of If I'll do this, then they will meet my needs. No, it's because of our love for them.
We choose the attitude of Christ and so. But the fact is, people will be influenced when we love them, when they know they don't deserve to be loved, they don't deserve the service we're giving them. And God uses that to touch their hearts. Yeah.
With Dr. Gary Chapman. Here's an on the line and go right ahead.
Hi. Thanks for having me. The word that keeps bringing to my mind, you just kind of spoke about is the word mercy. And I just saw an article and I believe it was CNN that said 25% of young adults now have cut their parents out of the picture. I don't know how factual that is because you see a lot on Facebook, but I do. I do have friends, and it's a pretty becoming, pretty common. And it is
so extremely painful. And I don't know, in my generation, our parents made mistakes, many, but we didn't cut them off. And I know it's a new time and all, and I know we always have to humble ourselves and recognize our failures and ask for forgiveness. But if you can't, if they won't allow it. There just needs to be mercy. And I know God can redeem any situation, but I
think most parents. Do their best and. And I just I just want to say to people listening to be merciful to your parents as well, because I think also sometimes you see these articles about criminals. And while they grew up in a, in a hard life, well. Is that? Make it okay. It doesn't make it okay. We still have responsibilities. Whether things hurt us when we're young or not. So I guess mercy and just allowing God to heal hearts.
But I do have compassion for parents that have been completely cut off, and it seems pretty common.
Well, it cuts both ways too. And because I've heard the same thing with if my son or daughter does this, then you know they're dead to me. I'm not going to talk to them again. So but I think it happens maybe a little more often than what you're talking about is the kids saying, no, I can't do it. That situation was toxic. I'm not going to open myself up to that again. What do you say about that, Gary?
Well, I think the hurt and the pain is real. We don't want to deny that. And yes, all parents fail to some degree or another. None of us are perfect. But I think to make the choice just to cut them out of my life because of what happened in the past. Or maybe what's continuing to happen is not the best choice. And sometimes, and this may sound strange, but I think sometimes the first step is for the child, the adult child, to ask themselves, where did I fail?
Where have I failed to be a child that honors parents even though they're not honorable? And maybe go back to that parent and say, you know, I realize I've made a serious mistake in cutting you all out of my life. I have been hurt deeply, no question about that. But it's not a loving response to actually cut you
out of my life. So if you're open and you would like for us to have lunch, you know, once every couple of weeks or once a month or whatever, I'd like to I'd like to continue our relationship and see what we can learn from each other. Sometimes that kind of humility that just simply acknowledges, you know, that you feel like you've made a wrong choice. Here is
the first step in the parent opening up. And then you as you are able to have lunches, then you can talk about, you know, and ask them, you know, tell me, what was your dissatisfaction about me as a child as I grew up? What hurts you most as I grew up? You know, you just open up the door and let them share and you do that. Chances are, sooner or later the next lunch, they're going to say, okay, you tell me, where did you feel unloved or where did you feel that I hurt you? It's that kind
of conversation, Chris, that leads to reconciliation. When we're open to hearing each other's hurt and looking back on it and acknowledging to each other that it was wrong and asking for forgiveness. And there can always be healing. Now, obviously it takes two to heal a breached relationship, but somebody has to take the initiative and often, even if they're 95% of the problem, you're only five. You apologize
for your part, your 5%. It opens the door to the possibility of conversations where we can process our feelings.
So this is and I'm wondering if the John who stayed with your family saw this. This brings up communication, and it also highlights listening and being inquisitive, you know, asking good questions. And then ask listening for the answer. How important is that communication or even being willing to open up the communication with somebody else?
Well, we don't make progress in a relationship without communication. You know, communication is to a relationship what oxygen is to the body. It's an absolute necessity. We will never make progress if we just keep our distance and we
don't talk. The relationship will continue to be fractured. But if we're willing to take a step trying to open up an opportunity for conversation, and I'm saying that often an apology is the first step because you're not going at them and blaming them and lashing out at them because it just gets worse. You have another big argument
and then you just walk away. And so that's the last time, you know, no, no, no. You take the humility, the attitude of humility and go acknowledge what you consider to be your failures and and just simply ask for an opportunity that we can talk. I want I want to ask you, mom, to share some things with me or dad share, share with me. What were your frustrations when we were at home and growing up? What were
you going through? And you know, many times our parents will be willing to open up and let let us in on what was going on in their lives. And that doesn't excuse it if it was really, really bad behavior. But at least now you're listening with a different ear because you're learning something about what was going on inside of their lives.
Five traits of a healthy family. Steps you can take to grow closer, communicate better, and change the world together. That's our featured resource at building relationships.us. Before we take a break, let's hear from Alina.
Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my phone call. So as I was explaining earlier to the lady who answered the phone, um, we have a blended family and there's a lot of conflict and it's been ongoing for many years. Our daughter is, um, 12 going on 13, and it's impacting her very deeply. Um, and we just can't, you know, seem to get along. And we're the Christians, so we look pretty bad. Probably in her eyes, too.
We're trying to raise her as a Christian. And so she has like a double life where on her biological mom's side, there's no Christianity. The friendships on that side are not encouraging of church or Jesus. Um, and so she feels alienated, even from God and us when she's over there. And then when she's here, we don't talk that much about what's going on over there. And so she's in the middle. But, um, I was listening to some of the things you were saying, you know, about
the communication. There's no communication. It's it's being funneled through the child. Um, and we try through emails and text messages to communicate with mom, but, um, she'd rather use attorneys and or the child.
Let me ask you this, Elena is does your is the daughter. Does she look at your faith in your Christianity and see things that she doesn't want? Or that right now that she's pushing back against because she feels like this is not this is fake to me because of this or that or the other thing, is that what she's going through?
Well. No, she's she's she's been going to church since she was two years old. And she got baptized in 2022. She always had a strong faith and been drawn to Jesus. And you know, we pray and she hasn't said anything about what we look like. But she's angry with God now. She says, I've been praying for this family forever, and he's ghosting me. Um, he's not answering my prayer. He doesn't care. And the Bible doesn't isn't doing anything for me. Got it.
Okay. And that's a really good way of putting it. You tell her. I say that she feels like God is ghosting her. That's. That puts the finger on the nerve that he's there, but he doesn't really care. You know, Gary, what would you say?
Yeah. I think if we're talking about her relationship with her biological mother and maybe her stepfather on that side to let her know and say, honey, you know, the fact that you're praying that God will work in her heart and da da da da da. But keep in mind, God doesn't make people do things. You know, God influences us, and God brings people along the way to speak to us,
but he doesn't make us do right. And so even, even in answer to our prayer, because God is not going to, you know, he gives us freedom to choose. And your your biological mother has freedom to choose the decisions that she makes. So we have to recognize that that may be a part of helping her understand, you know, why what she perceives as unanswered prayer is that she's asking God to do something that he's not. He's not
going to make her change. He he will answer prayer in terms of bringing people into her lives and situations that will be designed to help her biological mother make wise decisions, but he will not make her do that.
This is building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman, author of the New York Times bestseller The Five Love Languages. For more ways to strengthen relationships, head on over to our website. Building relationships.us. You'll find the book we're talking about today right there. It's titled five traits of a Healthy Family. Just go to building relationships.us.
All right.
We talked about this about a half hour ago, and we better keep our promise about revealing the fifth trait of a healthy family. And this 1st May surprise people as well. You talk about the husband being the leader of the family, and if you say that very loud in today's culture, you're going to get called names or people will cancel you. It's controversial. Why do you use that word leader?
I think because Chris, the biblical word is the husband is the head of the wife. And contemporary word would be leader, as I view that. But I think, again, where the pushback is many people have misinterpreted that biblical concept and some have the entity. What do you mean, husband? The leader? You know he's not the leader. You know we're equals. You know, certainly you're equals. We're both made in the image of God were equals. But use the
biblical model. It says the husbands, the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. What did the head of the church do? He died for the church. Who would not want a leader like that that's willing to die for them? You know? So if we get the biblical concept of leadership, and I spell this out in the book, of course, that that he views his wife as a partner, an equal partner in our relationship where we're on the team together and he will communicate
with his wife. He won't make wild decisions on his own. He wants to have two minds in making decisions. And so he'll talk about that. He'll community. He'll put her at the top of his priority list. Somebody said, wait a minute, I think God's supposed to be at the top of our list. Well, he is, but when you report to God is a Christian husband, God says, oh, well, now let's say you're married. So the first thing is, I want you to meet your wife's needs. I want
you to put her first in your life. I want you to seek to meet her needs. Whew. Okay, well, what wife would not want a husband with that attitude? You know, honey, I want to find out what I can do to meet. Meet your needs. So let's share them with me. You know, he's committed to discovering his wife's needs and meeting those needs. And he sets a model for his moral and spiritual values. So, you know, a lot a lot of fine details there in terms
of applying all of this. But don't ever forget the the biblical concept of the husband as the leader does not mean that he makes all the decisions and tells the wife what to do. No no no no no no. He sees it as a partner and he wants to make decisions together with her. And he has an attitude of wanting to give his life to enrich her life. Exactly what Jesus did. Who was the head of the church. So we get that concept. I think wives do not
oppose that. Wives would long for a husband who has the attitude of Christ.
Which takes us to Kyle. Kyle, what's your question for Dr. Chapman?
Well, I'm just processing all of what I've heard the last 15 or 20 minutes, and I have two of my four daughters. Ten years ago, after 25 years, I went through divorce. And. And so I've got a daughter that has not spoken to me in two years and one about eight. And so my contention is I just live my life. I can't rush the fruit. I heard a few of your nuggets here in the last 15 minutes. Your book is sounds awesome, but I just thought I'd
just check in with you for additional wisdom. Well aware of all the love languages.
So the two daughters that are estranged are adults now it looks like they're in their late 20s, early 30s. So, Gary, what what would you say?
Yeah. And I hear you saying that happened after the divorce.
Correct? Yeah.
Yeah. It's not. It's not unusual that adult children whose whose parents divorce will blame one of those parents for, you know, for the divorce. And sometimes they make the poor decision of just cutting off that parent because they're just so upset and angry that you would, you know, divorce my mother, that that kind of thing. So that may be involved in with your daughter. I don't know, because I can't read their hearts in their minds. But and again, you're right in that you cannot make them
reach out to you and be involved with them. But I do think this, I think to to say to them, as you have would have an opportunity. I just want you to know, I'm empathetic with the fact that she withdrew from me because of the divorce and all that went on there, and I can see how that was very painful to you and very hurtful to you. And, you know, I can't make you have a relationship with me, but I want you to know, I do love you. And if there's anything I can ever do to help you,
I want to do it. You know, it's that kind of approach may begin to soften their hearts so that they will again say, well, maybe we ought to. Let's have lunch together. So it's those kind of baby steps, but it comes, I think, with your being real to say, you know, honey, I can't make you accept me and have a relationship with me and I can understand, you know, some of the hurt that you've gone through. That approach is the better approach.
And it's taken a long time for all of that hurt to to fester and to cause the fracture. So for Kyle to be patient and to as he moves toward them is not going to be an overnight process. As I'm sure Kyle already knows, you're playing for the fourth quarter. You know, you're you're playing for the long game, right, Gary?
Yeah, absolutely, Chris. And so you never know because we can't make our adult children, you know, change their hearts and minds toward us. But we can have a warm attitude and an understanding attitude toward them.
Well, Gary, thank you for sharing your heart in this hour, for opening up your home all those years ago. Imagine what wouldn't have happened if you had said no to that college graduate. This would be a whole different program, a different experience for you, isn't it?
Well, it would, Chris. And he told me he has made a tremendous impact upon his life. So it was a fun time and we really enjoyed it. And and he did it and it had an impact on our children as well. You.
Will you find the featured resource from today at our website? Building relationships.us. The full title is five traits of a Healthy Family. Steps you can take to grow closer, communicate better, and change the world together. Just go to building relationships.us.
And next week the life changing practice of paying attention. Learn to listen to your day in one week.
A big thank you to our production team, Steve Wick and Janice. Backing and thanks to Ryan McConaughey and Tricia McMillan from Chris Fabry. Live. Building relationships with Dr. Gary Chapman is a production of Moody Radio in association with Moody Publishers, a ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.