Welcome to the podcast where we take a deep dive into the stories behind construction business leaders. We will share how they got started, how they found success, and the lessons learned along the way. I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry. Welcome to Builder Stories. How's it going everybody? Welcome back. I am very excited to have Katie Throckmorton, who is the owner of Distinct Builders. They are located in Charleston, South Carolina.
You got a great episode ahead of you, so thanks for tuning in. Katie, welcome to Builder Stories. I'm excited to have you here. Oh, well, thank you. I'm excited to be here. Thanks so much. Yeah, so why don't we just open up, kind of give us a little bit of your background. Ho- how did you, you know, get, even get into construction, start this, uh, Distinct Builders, what do you guys do? Kind of give us all that. Okay. So I've been in real estate since 2002.
Um, I've done a lot of jobs before that. I've owned a lot of companies before that. But, um, in real estate, I was, I had the opportunity to work with builders, and I've seen a lot of new construction, and I honestly just thought it didn't look great. I just thought people cut a lot of corners, es- I'm just gonna watch what I say. (laughs) People who try to do a lot of volume sometimes scrimp, and I thought, "You know, I think I can do this better. I think I can offer a better product.
I think I can, I think I can follow the golden rule." So my husband's been in building for about, oh, maybe 45 years. He's excellent. He's a trim carpenter, which in the scope of things is a very highly trained carpenter who does, uh, th- the trim and the intricate work. And I thought, "Well, between the two of us, I think that this will be great." I'm a good boss and he's a good worker. (laughs) And I told him, "Okay, here we, here is my paradigm.
We're gonna do the right thing all the time. We're never gonna cut corners. We'll back up everything we do, full disclosure, and, um, no drugs, no alcohol, you show up on time, you dress appropriately, you don't listen to offensive music, you don't speak offensively, and that's it. That's what we do." And he said, "We won't have anybody working for us. You should cut out everybody." (laughs) And, and I said, "That's fine. Put on your toolbelt. We're a one-man shop. That's great."
We do have great people. It's taken us six years. I did fire three people on the first day, but that wasn't their paradigm, and that's fine. I, I understand. My way of doing things is to offer excellence. Some people want production. I want excellence. So, um, I, I like to think of myself as going through the most expensive university in the world. It's cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars to learn what I've learned, and right now I have subcontractors that are just top notch. Um, they are
e- excellent. The, um, my husband is a project manager. I have a supervisor who's gonna be moving up. I even told my supervisor at one point, "I am gonna retire someday." I say that again. I'm 65, so I'm not sure if I'm gonna retire, but in my mind, one day, I'll probably just travel. And, uh, I said, "I'll help you get your license." And he's like, "Why would you do that?" "Because I want to pay it forward. I want you to be able to help somebody else later."
And so, "Let's get you qualified. Let's get you in a position where you can have your own business down the road." So that, that's kind of what's happened. I really, I really just didn't like what I saw. Yeah. So...
No, I, I love that. I mean, you saw an opportunity and, you know, you, you seized the moment and, uh, you know, started your own business, and, you know, I think that's, uh, that's what, what every entrepreneur, uh, you know, uh, strives to, to be able to do is, you know, when, when the time comes, you gotta be able to jump on it and, you know, it's, it's a risk though, right?
I mean, you, you took a risk and, you know, didn't, didn't know what the future would hold, and, you know, I'm sure you've, you've had lots of, uh, you know, challenges along the way, but, you know, at the end of the day, you know, you, you, you did it, and you got it going. And it's kind of interesting. So I do get a- asked to speak a good bit right now, and I always wonder if it's because I'm old or because I'm a woman and I'm in construction. (laughs) I'm not qu- I'm not quite as sure which.
Either way, I think, "I'm not limited by being a woman. That doesn't limit me." I have skilled people that work for me. I don't have to know how to build a house myself, and if I do, then I probably don't need the other people. What I need is highly skilled people. Um, and I am supported by them. I sell them for what they are, and I, I encourage them and I provide for them, and, um, I treat them the way I wanna be treated. I treat our cli- clients like I wanna be treated.
I've had people, um, do work on my house before I did this, before I met my husband, and they did poor jobs or they stole from me. No. That isn't gonna fly. That isn't gonna fly. No. Um, so I feel really great about where we are and the direction we're going. And this isn't really an ad for you, but I have done, uh, three other, uh, project management softwares and JobTried has really opened so many doors for me.
It's opened my communication with my subcontractors, um, with my, um, I, or I call my guys my subcontractors, but other companies that I work, uh, that I have work under us. Um, I just think it's fantastic. I just, I didn't dream of the things that I've been able to look at and try to incorporate before. No one else ha- has done that, and I'm just really thankful that you look at life like that, so thank you for that. Yeah, absolutely. I love, love hearing that it's making an impact.
Um, you know, b- Good for me. (laughs) Before we were, uh, you know, kind of talking, you know, i- it sounds like you've, you've seen a lot of different types of projects. So, you know, y- you've done, you know, residential, home builds, commercial. You know, kind of tell us a little bit about, you know, kind of all the different types of work you've done and sort of where, you know, where do you gravitate today? Like, what's, what's the ideal project for you?
So here's the interesting thing. When I decided to get my license, like I said, my husband's been in construction a long time.And I thought, "You know what? What's the hardest test? What's the one I can do the most with? I don't know that I'm gonna use it all, but I wanna have the ability to do whatever I wanna do." So I took the NASCLA General Commercial Contractors license, and it's that, that license qualifies me to work in either 18 or 19 states.
I have to take the state exam, but it's really a, a, it's really a freaking hard test. (laughs) It's, and I'm a good test taker, but it was, it was really tough. Um, and I thought, "Now what I wanna do? Do I wanna do residential? Do I wanna stay in commercial?" And then I started this business, I think, in 2019, so COVID hit the very next year and I thought, "Oh no, we need to do renovations. Everyone wants renovations. People are staying home, they need comfortable places to work,
and I can provide that." So we did that. We did, um, additions, renovations, also with commercial buildings that weren't being used very much, but it was a time when the office was empty, we were able to do that. Um, and I liked that. So in that time I thought, "Oh, I'll go ahead and get my ED, economically disadvantaged woman-owned small business," um, with the federal government. I took an SBA, uh, Thrive course, which is also amazing. Um, it's like an MBA in six months or less.
I'm, I'm a nerd. And (laughs) so I thought I'd do federal work, because they need a certain number of women-owned small businesses. Well, not really. They need to get quotes from a certain number (laughs) of women-owned small businesses, but they don't really have to hire those businesses and they want you to carry the materials, and I'm a small company.
All right, so that d- it wasn't so great, and I thought, "Well, maybe I'll work for these, maybe I'll be a subcontractor for these larger companies, because they have their quotas also." But they didn't want to pay me like I wanted to be paid. I'm, "What, what's your payment schedule?" "Well, I pay you when I get paid." You're a multi-billion dollar company. I don't think that's gonna be okay for me. So I
decided I wasn't gonna go that way. I've done... I, I like to participate in our community, so I've done things for the city of Charleston. Um, they have a program for people who are economically disadvantage, um, where they have a loan program and they go fix their houses to make them livable. Um, so we've done some of those. I've, I'm on the board of, um, the Women's Business Center, which actually helps women start small businesses, buy their first house.
So I'm involved in the community as well. But I, but as far as work goes, I really came down to the final decision, even kind of lately, that things are changing. That's not the direction I wanna go. Right now, I want to do excellent work in a small focused field. So we're doing, which we've also done, medical offices, veterinary offices, dental offices,
and, um, luxury home renovations. All renovations, all outfits, medical offices, change, change their, um, their concepts about every five years. Okay, great. (laughs) We'll be known as the people who do that really well. And, um, yeah, and I let some people go that just is, I did get rid of all the drugs, all the alcohol, but then I ended up with some people who were just excellent people, but not good at their jobs.
Cool. And because I back everything up, we had to go back and fix it, which means I paid for it twice. And I thought, "I'm, no, no," they, they do show up, they do their best, their best just isn't gonna work for my company. Yeah. So I, I said, "This isn't the company for you." (laughs) (laughs) Because lots of other people- Yeah. ... are gonna want you. You have knowledge."
You know, I think that's one of the hardest things as, as a business owner is to, to make those tough calls when, you know, it's, it's, it's easy to, you know, if someone is, is not doing good work or just doesn't treat people right, doesn't live up to your core values, it's, it's easier to, you know, to, to separate those people. But man, when you got somebody who just is, you know, great, you know- Mm-hmm.
... great person, great, you know, values, you know, they, they, they, they check all the boxes from a cultural fit, from a, you know, just a good human being, but man, the work just isn't there. It's just not their cup of tea. You know, those are the hardest ones to, to have to let go. It took me years. (laughs) It took me years, really. I had somebody with him fixing things all along because he just- (laughs) ... tried his best and he just had the right paradigm.
Yeah. He just is a good person. And, uh, that's, uh, honestly my biggest heartbreak is that, uh, and I've had to let other people go too, but like you said, there, it's one thing if people are, are doing the wrong thing or stealing or something like that. That's one thing. When they're just good people and they show up every day- Yeah. ... but this is, construction is an art. (laughs)
Um, this is not the field for them. They need to be somewhere else where their wonderful attributes will work for them. Sure. You know, I see, I see that too when people hire family members who, you know, they're, they're just trying to help 'em out, but, you know, again, they, they don't necessarily have the right skillset.
You know, it's like e- y- you're, you're, you're trying to do good, you're trying to help, but, you know, at the end of the day, it, it does, it causes more challenges for you down the road, you know, and then having to clean up and fix the mess and, and, and do right by the customer can, you know, leads to double work. And, and it's more costly to have those people who just aren't the right
people for the business. I, I think it's so important and sounds like you really put a big focus and emphasis on making sure that you're building the right team with the right people, and ultimately, that's what will help you deliver excellence. And, you know, I, I, I love your focus on, on, on excellence.
I mean, I just, I think it's so important and, and I do, I, I see a lot of contractors these days who, they, they are, they're willing to cut corners and they're willing to, to, to low ball, you know, a price just to, to win it, because they think that's, that's gonna help them kinda keep going and progressing forward.
But it's like, you know, then, then you get into it and you do shoddy work, and now, you know, your reputation takes a hit and you didn't, you know, you got a bad review, and it's like, it, this whole thing, it compounds
on itself. And it's like, if you just, you know, maintain your, your, your values from the very get-go and don't ever, you know, sacrifice that and just always, you know, live up to your expectation, I mean, th- that, that's how you build a great business that brings repeat customers and that, you know, helps you just to continue to thrive. Even in the toughest markets, you know, you gotta protect that reputation. Yeah.So we did a, we did a really nice house on an island.
Um, I live in Charleston, South Carolina, and it's Isle of Palms. I don't know if you know where that is or have heard of it, but it's a place where a lot of people vacation, but there's also residences there. So there's an older couple, and they wanted us to enclose, um, a porch into a livable space, which is great, but they had a second story porch that they, we needed to, um, we need to water seal. Um, someone missed a spot. (laughs) Someone missed the entire deck. Mm-hmm.
And they didn't put the fabric down before they put the, um, HydroStop up there. That was three years ago. We have a one-year warranty. They called. Of course I'm paying for that. Of course I'm fixing it. It doesn't really matter when it was. We missed it. Even if they didn't know we miss it, I would go there and say, "Yeah, let us take care of that.
Doesn't cost you anything. This is just the right thing to do." And my husband, as I said, has been in construction for a long time, so he's saying, "What are you saying?" And I'm saying, "It's the right thing." Always, always, always, always do the right thing. It will always come back to you. And I sleep well at night. I never stress about anything at night. Regarding that, now do I sleep at night? Hmm. Well- (laughs) ... I'm a business owner. (laughs) Yeah.
There's a, there's a whole lot more to business than showing up and telling somebody, "We're gonna do a great job." Yeah. There's a whole lot more. And again, that's, I think I, I emailed you last night and I said, "I, I'm so excited about the opportunities and the integrations that you have available to us, and I loved seeing you, um, when I was in Dallas in January. Um, I'm super excited about two in particular. One is the, um, HighLevel, Go HighLevel, and the other one is the Render.
The Go HighLevel, I thought, you know, I asked my web designer, I said, "Can you, can you create these funnels so that I get more information? I have a specific... I'm going for a market, a specific market, and can you help me help people who visit my website define what they want?" Because maybe I have to refer to somebody else. And I do refer business to other people. Um, a- again, that's the right thing to do. So, um, she said, "No, I can't do that." And I'm- Sure.
... sitting, actually. I texted her while I was in the class with you and the owner of, um, HighLevel, and I'm like, "Can you do this?" And she said no, and I said, "Okay." (laughs) I got on ChatGPT, explained to me how I could do it, and I said, "I guess I don't need you." (laughs) (laughs) I have somebody who, who is willing to do the work to find the things that will help me, uh, have a better company, and to offer my services in a better way. Yeah, yeah. So
I bought that. I'm not expert at it yet. Um, I didn't grow up with a computer. I did go to college where Mark Cuban went to college, and there was one big computer in the School of Business at Indiana University when we were there. So (laughs) I'm... But I love that, I love the opportunity, and I, I should a- ask my seven-year-old grandson to help me figure out HighLevel. (laughs) (laughs) Yeah, I mean, you know, again, wh- where there's a will, there's a way.
Right. And I, I think wh- you know, when, when, you know, when entrepreneurs, business owners such as yourself are willing to, you know, not accept status quo and say, "You know, look, I, I know I need to do something different." You know, "Look," you know, go, you know, go, go understand the challenge that you're having so that you can find the right solution. And then, you know, once you do, like, you know, again, "H- how am I gonna get it implemented?
How am I gonna make it happen?" I mean, you know, using ChatGPT, going to trainings, listening, you know, and finding experts that can help you. I mean, that, that, that is how you continually overcome any challenge that comes your way. And, and, you, you know, you're clearly doing it right. That's, that's the way to do it. So Dan Zidell, um, was my success, uh, manager, and he's moved on to another position, but he has been also fantastic. Um, he... Yeah.
And Stephanie is now as well. I just haven't had a chance to talk to her as much, but you, you've set your business up so that I can do my business better. I think that's, I think that's the huge difference between what I tried before, the other three project management programs before, and what I'm feeling and, and seeing now. It takes a little while to train these, uh, older tradespeople to document anything, upload pictures. They have pictures. I see their phones. Yep.
They just can't figure out how to upload them. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, it's so easy. It's right here." (laughs) You can do it in the, in the project management tri- software. It's on your phone. That's okay. You know what? As long as I'm building the right team, I have the right people with me, um, then all the other things are details. Yeah. And all those details can be taken care of. I, I know I asked somebody about a virtual assistant.
I said, "I'd like to hire a virtual assistant that understands JobTread." I'm a huge advocate. I need somebody for this. So I put it in the chat and I don't, I didn't get anything back, but I'm gonna continue with that because your program offers a lot more. So I need somebody who can actually help me- Mm-hmm. ... implement the things that I need to implement without me having to do it during the day 'cause, you know, we don't sleep. Sure. Business owners don't really sleep.
Well, you know, I'm, I'm curious. You touched on something really interesting there. You know, l- I, I hear all the time, you know, when you have older, you know, workers, they can, they can sometimes be more prone to, to sort of resisting the technology and, and, you know, again, they're, they, they can be, you know, set in their ways and they don't always wanna learn, you know, new things. So h- how do you approach that with, with those workers who, who you may be getting more
pushback and, and, you know, it's a little bit harder to get them to adopt? I mean, do you... Is there, is there something that you do to, you know, to, to try to help them understand or learn? Like, do you sit down with them more? Like, what, you know, what, what does that look like? Um, so my husband is 61 and he's been doing construction since he was a teenager. He's a perfect case example. Actually, several of them h- are, but i- in particular, he's not comfortable with technology.
He has a really, uh, 16... iPhone 16 Pro Max that he doesn't know how to use.... that's fine. Just take the pictures. I, um, I will have somebody help you. You know, I will have a VA that will work just with you, so that they have access to your photos, and they can upload, and all you have to say is a few words. He- in the notes section of the phone, you can actually speak to text. So, he can do that and he can upload it into JobTread. So, it really...
So, it's the simple things. Yes, does it take years for him? Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. I just told you, I'm a nerd, so learning is my thing. I have a passion for it. Learning is the last thing he wants to do, ever. (laughs) "I know how to do construction, this is what I do," and he's exactly like every other older tradesperson I work with, every other tradesperson that I know. And they are excellent. I just look at the positives and I
figure out how to help them with the rest. Are they ever gonna get it? I doubt it. (laughs) I don't even have that expectation. Yeah. My expectation is that we're a team, and where they have deficits, we find people or I h- I help them and we fill in the blanks. Well, it sounds like you also, you, you know, you, you, you narrowed down the scope of what you want them to know, and you came up with, "Here is the, the, the, the very simple workflow."
Yes. "I want you to, to take the photos, put a, you know, a one sentence of note and just upload it," and it's like, you know, I, I think, again, it is, it's- it's about kind of, you know, understanding where, you know, your people are and what are their strengths and what are their weaknesses? And then, you know, developing, you know, those, those workflows around them to help support them.
You know, because, I mean, again, if he's a phenomenal, you know, at his, at his trade, and he, and he gets the work done beautifully, like, yeah, the last thing you want him to do is be bogged down with, you know, the things that aren't gonna, you know, unleash his talents and, and, and they could lead to more frustrations for him. So, you know, I think it's- And they're afraid. ... you know- I mean, they're afraid, honestly. Technology scares them.
I was in a meeting, I was in a board meeting the other day, and they were saying... No, I wasn't, I was at church, at a Bible study and they were saying, "AI is gonna be the ruin of the world." I'm like, "Oh my gosh, it's the greatest thing ever." (laughs) "We're, we don't see this at all." It... You have to ha- you have to use your discretionary mind here. No. You ask what you wanna know about. Don't go into the negative stuff. You'll be fine.
Use the, use what we have. Um, and I was reading some time ago, uh, probably Reader's Digest or something, where someone wrote something in the 1800s, early 1800s, I think, "We're running out of oil. How are we gonna exist? We don't, we won't have anything to use." Turned out to be whale oil. You know what? We figured it out, right? Yeah. We- That's the whole idea of, of being able to pivot.
In life, it's all about pivoting. When this doesn't work, when working for the federal government doesn't work for me, I pivot. You know, when working for larger contractors, who I thought would be great, didn't work. We pisit- we pivot, and I, I have gotten to the place where I think, "I know for sure we do really great remodels." I know we do, and the truth is that people are always gonna need to have remodels. Great. Yeah. I know that medical offices are something we've done really well.
Okay, let's do that. And we've also done the veterinary clinics and their knowledge base is greater than what we're doing, but all I wanna do today is do a really great job. We can expand past that later. For today, I really want to be great at this, and I want to be able to, to sell that. We've done three high-end homes. I mean, before I made this decision, I thought, "I'm working on a three-story house that had water damage on the third floor, and it went all the way to the floor."
It was there, I just didn't see it, and then when I saw it, I thought, "I'm already there. We're already doing this." This is... All I'm gonna do now is advertise that this is all we're, this is what we're doing. So- What do you, what do you think it was that... You know, 'cause, 'cause I see a lot of contractors who, you know, they're, they're not... They haven't really figured out their, kind of their, their passion and where they wanna focus on.
I mean, it, it kinda reminds me of, like, you know, when, when, when, you know, kids, you know, go to college for the first time and you have no idea what major you want, but you gotta pick something, and then you go try something. Like, I went into mechanical engineering first and I was like, "Man," like, "I do not like this." (laughs) You know, ended up coming back and went, you know, withdrew and went to the business school.
You know, much better fit, you know, and then I get my master's in software engineering. It's like, "Man, I just chose the wrong engineering," but, like, it takes so much time to kind of really figure out. So, like, h- like, what, what drew you? I mean, like, you know, to, to go and, and, and look at, you know, government type work and huge commercial projects, you know, w- was it just, like, the, the large, you know, scope? The, you know, the huge contracts?
Like, kinda what, what sort of led you down that path, but then ultimately you decided... I mean, obviously sounds like kind of payment, you know, terms and sort of being treated like, you know, not, not highly respected. More like a, you know, just a, you know, just another, another, you know, sub-vendor. Like, kind of how, how did you kind of go sort of through that phase of learning? So, I've only been in construction now for...
This is the seventh year of my business, but I really had them do my house first 'cause I wanted to see who I wanted to fire. And when I said no drugs and alcohol, I, I'm not kidding. You don't show up and that... You don't carry that on to other people's work sites. You don't... You show up and you show respect, period. So, I fired three people. Not a problem for me, but in that year, I learned about the kind of
tradespeople that I needed to bring on. I, uh, just their... I had to find... I give them personality tests. I need their paradigm right off the bat, and I don't mind saying, "I'm not the company for you. There are plenty of companies out there that'll want you." Yes. "You're a good person. There's nothing wrong with you. This is my way of doing business." Mm-hmm. So- So then I, um... When I started, um, doing work for other people, I set my own scale. When I started to...
When I saw that there were opportunities for women-owned small businesses, I was like, "Oh, great. I'll go to work..." ... and will be subcontractors for larger businesses who have already figured all this out. I'm new to this. I'm still new to this. I'll probably always be new to this until I retire, but the, but I thought, they already walked this walk. I know, I'm not- I'd like to have mentors who have figured out how to offer more to more people. Yes.
And I think that they have reputations for being good companies, which they do. When it comes to the way that they want to run their business and how they want to treat their people, I, I, we were going to do the city garages in Charleston and a larger contractor from Florida was up here. I, I literally worked until wee hours in the morning multiple nights putting things together because of the way that they wanted them. I'll do that for anybody. I wanna do, I want to offer what they need.
We go to meet the project manager downtown, and his subcontractor that was currently doing the job was behind him, and he said, "They don't pay." (laughs) "They don't pay." I'm like- Hmm. ... "Not the good quality contractor I want to follow." And I- Yeah. ... turned around to the guy and said, "We're not working with you." (laughs) "We're out." So I, I, I think I just don't want to be big
today. I don't, I want to be able to, um, I want to be able to grow a business that, um, fits with my paradigm. I want, I want to be able to, um, bring the bar up, and I want to be able to do that in a way that is consistent. So I'll, uh, I will attract other people. I do attract other people. They just have to be
where I want th- where I see things. I, they don't have to do it just my way, but they have to have the paradigm that, that is, "We're a service-oriented business and we're offering the best service we can." Will there be better companies? Sure. Do, uh, d- do I have to be that large? No. Like I said, uh, even to begin with, I'm telling my husband, "You might be the only worker. If I can only trust one person to do the right thing, then, well, I'll have one person." Yeah.
But I'm not gonna have- B- ... more people just to fill up my time sheet. I'm not gonna... I don't need that. I don't need that. Well, I think- And, and, uh, being a woman-owned small business, I will say this. Being a woman in construction, I, I, I actually just, um, probably convoluted, but I never really thought I had any limits. I didn't, I thought I could do anything I wanted to do, and if I wasn't good at it, I just stopped. It wasn't about being a woman.
People do look at women differently in construction, and so my husband was an 82nd Airborne ranger sniper. He looks like G.I. Joe. I take him with me to SAME and they all talk to him, and I don't care. (laughs) You know? (laughs) You, you think he's the boss? I'm fine with that. He's- No. ... he's brilliant at what he does. I write the checks, so in the end- (laughs) ... I getta make the decisions, but,
uh- Yeah. ... but if the paradigm is that I'm the secretary, in the end they're going to get the service they want, and in the end they'll understand that I'm the one that writes the check. So it doesn't, I don't need to prove anything. Sure. I, I just really want to have, I just want to do my best, and I want them- Yeah. ... and I want them to do their best. I have, so you're talking about (laughs) ha- about, uh, being in college. I have a, I have six kids.
My oldest is 41, 39, 37, 25, and twin 22-year-olds. And I always insist that my kids work. I mean, I just thought, if you want to spend any money or if y- when you work, you'll understand the value of working. Um, when they went to college, I'm like, "I'm not paying for your college. I'll reimburse you when you get done, but I'm not paying for it. Or maybe I won't reimburse you, but you'll show up for class." I'm not sure how I'll do it. And my, uh, with my oldest kids,
they understood that they were gonna have to pay their own way. My son has 13 businesses. He's phenomenally successful. My daughter's a hair stylist and she's got a 20-year-old and a 5-year-old. My next child who does concrete is doing wonderfully. And then I get to my 25-year-old and my twin 22-year-olds, and I'm like, "What do you want to do?" Yeah, "You, you are so young and you don't have any experience. What would you like to do?" "We want to be rich and take a lot of vacations."
(laughs) (laughs) "Okay. How are you gonna do that?" They said, "Mom, we don't want to be your age, working as hard as you do." "Still fine." (laughs) "Still f- How are you gonna do that?" They, they don't know either, but they do have a, uh, an idea of what they think is successes. Uh, to be successful, for me, means to, to provide excellence. The idea for them is money. And I still, I'm fine with that, and they still don't know, but they still want to be the CEO. And I said- (laughs) ...
"You don't know what you're talking about." (laughs) "You're, you, you think you're the boss. Wait till you're the boss. You'll see where you pay people when you don't get paid. You'll see how it is to, to back up what, what people do that are mistakes." It, it's- Yeah. ... being the boss is fun because I can set the bar.
It's also a challenge. Anybody who says, uh, "Construction's an easy business," or they think they, people live in big houses and have nice cars, oh my gosh, there's so much work that goes with that. Yeah. And, I mean, I still- So- ... live in a, a modest house. Uh, it's four bedrooms, two and a half baths, but I have a lot of kids. Yeah. And (clears throat) I drive a Tesla, love my Tesla, but it's just that it's not that I don't work hard.
So between the older people who are set in doing things just one way and the younger kids who think they need all the money without the work, it's an interesting time. I told my boys, my youngest kids, all three of them, I said, "Hmm, get a trade. If you want to make consistent money, get a trade, go to trade school." So right now, I have a friend who is a professor at MIT and at Harvard, and I have another friend who's, um, a brilliant man. He's a Native American.
And we are collectively, um, gonna be starting-... uh, some education, some training programs for people to enter the trades. Not like getting licenses, but teaching them basic skills so they can go be tradespeople on, on work sites. They should all start cleaning up the trash, but that's, that, we wanna give them some basic skills so they have some way to, um, move into the trades. That's awesome. And do a great job. That's the thing. And we're gonna teach them business too.
We're gonna teach them blueprint reading. It won't be just, "Here's a hammer." Yeah. We wanna set them up for success too, um, because there's gonna be a lot of displaced workers pretty soon. Yeah. That's, that's awesome. So h- uh, is that, like, gonna be, like, a program where it's, you know, they're- Yeah. ... gonna be working part time? Oh, don't worry. I mean, that, like- I'm gonna get you involved. (laughs) (laughs) I'm du- you're totally, you're totally on my, on my checklist.
Once we get this, once we... We're actually gonna be working with some OIT students. I'm going to, um, Boston in, uh, May, and we're gonna be developing a super great program that will serve the needs of the construction industry, um, quickly. Yeah. That's the goal. Yeah. These, these people that are teachers, that are in the education system that are being displaced, you were project managers. You sh- Mm-hmm. You ha- have already managed lots of projects. It's just not construction.
How about we give you- Yeah. ... some tools? How about- Well, that's- ... we give you some opportunities? And, uh, and I don't, I, I mean, I... Dallas was scary to drive around in, but that place is still growing and everywhere I go is still growing. So, why not give people the opportunity to have skills that are gonna work in a construction field? It doesn't have to be all these older people who are retiring. Sure. So is that d- Mm-hmm.
I mean, are you kinda seeing sort of the, the labor, the workforce that's probably one of the biggest challenges for, for most construction companies? It really is. It really is because the construction's hard on the body, um, and so they are, they're wearing out. The guys in their 60s have shoulder problems, back problems, knee problems. I understand. Look what they've done. They, they- Yeah. ... carry these enormous loads. They are on their knees, or everything they do is hard.
Yeah. Um, and, uh, young kids somewhere along the line decided that college was the best route. I have a college degree. I get it. When I wa- I, I get why you wanna go to college, but the truth is, learn a trade and you'll always be employed. Yep. Um, we, that we, if we can help change that paradigm for, for younger people, I think, I think that the HVAC people around here, the company owners make at least 250,000 a year. They don't have college degrees. They got a license.
Why don't you wanna do that? (laughs) Uh, yeah. It, it take, it's a great skill, and you're gonna get better for a long time, but you will always be needed. Yep. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, and, and I think it's, it's also what you also sorta touched on, the, you know, the,
the, the younger generations. They, they're, they're, somehow they skip the whole lesson on the importance of hard work, and, you know, putting in the effort and, you know, the, the, just being determined to, to accomplish your goals and, and, and to, you know, make things happen.
I mean, uh, uh, h- how do you, how do you address that with, you know, with, with, with these younger, uh, younger kids coming outta college thinking they just, you know, wanna work part time and sit at home and somehow collect this huge paycheck? Well, I was up till midnight last night talking to my 22-year-old who wanted to do day trading for a
business. (laughs) And he, he's, he also went to Florida with his twin and couldn't get a job for two months, and I'm like, "Did you apply at McDonald's? Did you, did you go to a construction site and offer to clean up? There's so many ways to get work." And he said- Yeah. ... "I applied online," and I said, "No. That, that's just... You ha- you don't understand." "You," he said, "Everybody tells me I should love what I do." I said, "You don't even know what you wanna do now. You're 22.
You just got outta college." Yeah. "You really need to understand that you need to start at the bottom somewhere," and I'm, they're going to work for my son, who's very successful in Nashville, and I said, "Before you leave every day, you ask him, 'Is there anything else I can do? What can I do for you?" If he says go clean the toilets, go clean the toilets. If he says scrub the floor, go scrub the floor. If he says go pick up my kids, go pick up his kids.
They're my grandbabies. But d- you know, don't ever leave without doing more." And then- Yeah. ... when you learn what it takes to be a successful person, it doesn't matter what you're doing. You can s- He owns several furniture stores as well as other things, but I said, "It doesn't matter what you're selling.
Do it the best way you can. If you go work at this virtual golf place, do the best you can, whatever you do, and before you leave, make sure you say, 'Is there anything else I can do for you?'" Hmm. Yeah. I'm hoping. I don't know. My, I, like I said, I, I did something right with some of the, with the older ones.
It's a different generation. I think something about the COVID and when the kids were home, uh, they're twins, and everything's virtual, and we have a screen, we have a screened porch with a dining room table and all that, and they're saying, "Mom," they were taking dual credit classes. They said, "Mom, these classes are so hard." I'm like, "Okay."
(laughs) They're out on the screened porch with their shirts off, Snapchatting their friends, showing their abs, 'cause of course, you know, they have to look good- (laughs) ... (laughs) while their hard classes are going on. (laughs) So I said, "You know what? I'll make this easier for you. Give me your phones." They had to slide their phones in under my door first thing in the morning. I checked their work at noon, and if they were finished, I gave them their phones back. Parenting is hard.
Yeah. You know, it, helping people is hard, but the reward is great. The, there...... there, the... I just love it when people figure it out. Yeah, absolutely. And I, I love... Uh, I mean, you really inspired me. Um, I didn't have a chance to really talk to you very much, except one night when I was trying to find a hotel room for that one guy... (laughs) who had ended up in the hotel room. Um, but you,
you... When you told your story about helping the landscaper and then progressing past that and helping... I feel like you... I, I don't know if it's true, but I feel like your goal is to offer more all the time and to be- Yep. ... able to help more people. Um, when you speak, I... That's what I hear you say, and that's just in line with my paradigm. When I leave this world, if all I've done is a few good things, then I'm happy. If I've, if I impacted anybody in a positive way, then I'm happy.
And again, that's why I expect excellence. Yeah. People make mistakes. I make mistakes every day. That's fine. And what I tell my guys is, "When you make mistakes and you discover it, just tell me. We're still gonna fix it. Just don't walk away." Yeah. Don't, don't ever walk away. I'm still gonna pay you. I'm gonna pay you to fix it. Never walk away. Yeah. No, I, I, I can't agree more. And I mean, I... You know, you're, you're absolutely right.
I mean, uh, at this point, you know, in, in, in my career, in my life, I mean, I, I've, you know, I've, I've sold the company. You know, financially, we're good to go. I, I, I can tell you, like, you know, having money does not, you know, make you happy. It doesn't, like, fulfill you. I mean, it's, it's obviously a lot easier to have money than to not have money. But like, you still have that, like, that itch, that desire to do more.
And, you know, I, I think at, at the end of the day, like, I mean, my goal with JobTrit is, you know, create this, this platform that I can help as many others, you know, be able to achieve that same level of success. Like, this is how I pay it forward, is, is by hopefully, you know, again, doing this podcast, recording people's stories, documenting the things that, that have, you know... that, that they've struggled with and how they've overcome them and what's worked, what wasn't
worked. Mm-hmm. Like, you know, how do we help as many others to be successful? And a lot of times, it, it comes down to, you know, the, the, the information that you consume, the people that you surround yourself with, the tools that, that, that you bring on, the, you know, the teams that you build. Like, y- e- everyone only has so many waking hours in a day. And if you can spend those hours, you know, doing the absolute best job that you can do- Yeah.
... and even better if you can focus on doing the things that you can make the biggest impact on... You know, and that's why it's, you know, so, so interesting in, in seeing how you've really... You know, yo- you could do anything that you wanted to do right now, you know, from, from the whole, you know,
gamut of, of construction. But you've, you've narrowed it down to, we wanna help, you know, with, with, you know, r- high-end luxury remodels, you know, with medical facilities, with, you know, dental, veterinarians. Like, you, you know where you want to spend your time and where you can make the biggest impact, and you've gone all in on that, and that's- Right. ... that's what I think is so important.
And, and, and it's just the same thing with all the young, younger people who don't yet know what their passion is. Like, well, you gotta get out there and you gotta try things and you gotta get involved and you gotta go figure out what do you love doing. And eventually, you'll find that, and then- Yeah.
... that's, that's how you know what to double down on and that's how you know where, you know, to, to, to focus your energies and your efforts in the things that you can make the biggest impact. But again, like, once people learn, like, uh, uh, you know, the, the world, it's, it's not all about you, you know? No. Oh my gosh, yeah. There's so much more to, to being fulfilled in life.
And when you learn that you can get so much more by giving to others, like, it, it comes back, you know, in, in, in... in magnitudes greater when you just kind of can, can find that joy in helping other people. It's... You know, if, if, if you don't... You know, I'm not saying, you know, kind of, you know, neglect yourself. You gotta take care of- Right. ... yourself and your health and, you know, make sure- And your family and- (laughs) Yeah, you... for your community. Yeah, but...
And- Yeah. But what you do for a job is, is help other people. And I don't really care what job it is. I mean, I... my best friends are medical doctors, and they still have to serve. You know, their- Yeah. ... their job is to serve. If they're... all they're worried about is making money... I don't know any of my friends that are doctors that actually do that. I, I mean, they, they don't do the five-minute thing. They actually get to know you.
Um, and I was telling my twin again, I said, "Y- h-..." I said, "Whatever you do, do it with joy," 'cause he's an... I understand that I'm supposed to love what I do. Well, there's gonna be parts of it you don't love, but you know what? In everything, have gratitude. In everything, have joy. See what you can do to help somebody else.
There was a, there was a Hispanic lady that worked for my son, and he has several people, but when this lady walked in the door... I happened to be at his store one day when she walked in the door, and it was just the feel of her walking in. You could just see that she was there to serve.
It's... uh, it was an energy. And you actually have very similar energy when, when you're, when you're walking, you... I mean, you're not like Tony Robbins where he's all over the place, but you, you know, you, you, you have a s-... You have a feeling of serving, and that's the way I live my life too. It's, uh, it's whatever I'm doing a- and maybe I can only help this small group, but when we help this small group,
it needs to be excellent. I could have chosen any area. I really did... I'm unlimited. I'm unlimited in my license. I'm, uh... I just chose the biggest thing, and I didn't think I could serve the government as... the way that they wanted me to serve. I didn't think I could serve a larger company the way that they wanted me to serve them. Okay, not my fit. I tried. (laughs) I have... I have... My walls are covered with designations. I just am...
I'm really a screwball with that stuff. I just feel like ed- uh... I feel like knowledge is power, and the more I know, I know what I do wanna do and what I don't wanna do. Yeah. Um, but when it comes down to it, no matter what I do, I want it to be excellent. No matter- Yeah. ... who I bring in to work with me, I want them to understand I appreciate them, that they bring value, and that I want that value to also be shared with everyone that works with us, everyone
we work for. It's, it's just...... it's service- Yeah. ... and it's gratitude. And I s- I, w- as you talk, I see that that's why I feel like I'm so aligned, um, because I hope you make a lot of money. I, uh, I have to tell you that in the people that I've contacted or had communication with in your company, they all seem very much like you. Um, so you attract what you put out, and that's,
that's my goal too. I wanna attract the people who wanna do what I wanna do, whether I make a lot of money or not. Of course I wanna make a lot of money. I'd like to retire. I've raised a lot- (laughs) ... of kids. They cost a lot of money- Yeah. ... (laughs) for a long time. Yep. 40 years of paying for kids. Whatever a lot of money is to me. My, my really, my needs at this point are low. Um, I don't have to- Well, f- ... pay $500 a week for food anymore. (laughs)
Yeah. But, but Katie, I mean, what- Except the, except for my career. ... what, what is the... You know, I'm, I'm curious like, so what is the, kinda the, the, the bigger vision? What's the goal, you know, for, for Distinct Builders? Like, where do you wanna take it and at, you know, what point? I mean, obviously, you, you've kind of talked about some point you'll, you'll look to retire.
Like, what, wh- when will you know when that time is, and, and what will you, what will you do with the business? Oh, I'll sell it. Um, right, I'm on, I'm, um, part of, uh, Women Construction Business Owners & Executives, um, and it's a group. We have a lobbyist in Washington. I was in Washington last week. And I will want to, um, have a business that people can, will talk about and will use as, um, as a template for how they build their business. That's what I would like.
And I would like to do that in a way that, um, that elevates the construction industry at h- uh, um, in total, and also that helps people feel good about what they're doing, that I, I want to give opportunities. A lot of people have skills. I mean, artists have skills. I think of these people as artists. They really are willing to create, um, something. And I want them to have a, I want the tradespeople to have a platform where they can provide excellence and they'll be recognized for that.
So if I- Yeah. ... can do that, and if I can help other people build businesses like that, if somebody wants to buy my business, that's great. That's, that's what I want. I wanna have a positive impact. That's awesome. Like I said, if I, if I help... Uh, so my twins, I didn't give birth to. Um, they were my husband's, and he was married before and his wife was a drug addict. And when I met them, I thought, "I can't... Yeah, this life is bad for them. This isn't a good life for them.
So they're mine." So they, they wanted to come live with me, and I said that'd be fine. Yeah. And, and I really, I think if I, I have, I gave birth to four kids, but I thought if I, if I, if I did something in the world to change the world a little bit by helping these two little boys live a life that they couldn't live otherwise, then, then God has blessed me and I've been able to do something positive. I feel the same- Yeah. ... way about this business. If I can- I love that.
... just do something, even if it's small, if I'm with the right people and I can offer something, in the end, yes, I'd, I'd like for it to be, I'd like, I'd like for it to be global. If I can set a bar that people say, "This was done right." Yeah. That's great. Then I'd feel happy. If I don't, that's fine too. I love it. So, you know, as, as we kinda wrap up here, I'm, I'm curious.
Uh, is there any, you know, anything that, you know, if, if, if, if you think back about, you know, the last six, seven years that you've been doing this. I mean, you know, what do you wish you would've known when you were starting that, that you now know, that, that might have helped you? Like what, what advice would you give to others who, you know, are very early in their journey. They're, they're, they're trying to decide whether they wanna start a business.
Maybe they've got, you know, some, some challenges and things that are kinda causing hesitation for them. Like, is a- any, just any advice that you would give for others who are, who are early on trying to, trying to make that leap or, or trying to get going? I would honestly first tell them to find a good bookkeeper. Don't do it yourself. Find somebody who knows what they're doing. Two, I would tell them to sign up for JobTread, do all, do all- (laughs)
... of the (laughs) trainings. Go to Dallas. Um, that was, I have been to, I don't know, 5,000 trainings or something. I've been to s- so many conferences. I told you, I'm a nerd. That was probably the single best conference I've ever been to. Oh, thank you. Um, I would tell them to, if they're in construction, I would say, start cleaning up the mess. (laughs) You know, start at the, start at a job site. Follow some people who, you can tell who's good and who's not.
You can s- you can tell the grouchy ones who are only gonna give half effort and the ones that are gonna go above and beyond. Find those people and, and even if you're just there a week, get a sense of what they're actually doing. Um, I, my husband wanted to have people available all the time. I ended up paying two times more than the market rate for some of these people that weren't working at two times the market.
Understand your market. Understand, understand that you are gonna pay more for excellence. You are. Just understand it doesn't have to be twice, (laughs) twice what somebody's worth. I would, I truly, I think the first thing I would do is get a good bookkeeper. I would start with JobTread. Eh, I mean, if you're just one person, it's very affordable. If you just start with the training, it's very affordable.
Um, so learn, learn what you need to learn, 'cause that's an encapsulation of what it takes to have a good business, a good construction business. Yeah. And seriously, don't even hire anybody until you go do some work. No, that's, uh- Start from the beginning. ... that's great advice, Katie. I, you know, I, I, I really appreciate you sharing all that.
And, you know, I think as, as, as everyone, you know, likely took away from this, I mean, it's, you know, you've, you've helped people see that it's so important to build a great team. You know, you, you, you have to have your own-... you know, core values defined and, and know what you're striving for. And, and, and if you wanna build excellence, then you have to lead by example. You have to build the team that also shares that desire and embodies that.
And then, you know, you, you gotta, you know, you gotta do right. Treat, treat your subs right. You know, make sure that you find the right customers and that, that you're getting treated right, that your employees, your team's getting treated right.
Like, you know, and, and, and when you find those opportunities to, you know, to, to really kind of dig in and, and just double down on the things that, you know, are your strengths and where you can make the biggest impact, I think that's how, that's how it seems like th- that you've been able to really set this, this blueprint out for... You know, for other businesses, is, is by, you know, learning and continually learning, continually improving. You know, never just accepting the status quo.
Like, there's always more that you can do. There's always, you know, something that you can improve on. And, and when you have that mindset, you know, that's how you keep growing, that's how you build a great business. And, you know, I'm, I'm excited to see, you know, what the future holds for you, Katie. And, you know, I have no doubt that, that you'll have a very, uh, you know, successful next several years, just like you have in, in, in the previous years.
And, and hopefully, you know, one day when the time is right, you, you know, you have a very successful exit and can, can hand the reins over to someone else who can keep, can keep going and building on that momentum. You know, it's, uh, it's just really exciting to see what, what you've been able to do. And, you know, I know it's, it's, it's not been easy. You've, you've done a great job though, and, you know, I appreciate you, you coming on and sharing your story here with all of us.
Well, I really appreciate that, like I said, that you're always looking for ways to add to the, to your program. I, I appreciate the fact that you have so many ways to integrate good opportunities for businesses. Um, one other thing I would say is make sure you pay yourself. (laughs) Make sure... Business owners sometimes get confused about money. Make sure you pay yourself. It's easy to think you have to pay everybody else, but if you're not taking care of yourself, you're not
taking care of anybody else. You really do need to take care of yourself and your family. Um- Absolutely. Don't sacrifice that. Yeah. But also, times have changed a lot in my life. A lot. Like I said, one room in a school business at Indiana University, and my kids went to school with Chromebooks. It is so different. What you're doing, what your company's doing is offering us a way to incorporate the latest, um, of what's going on. My son was talking to, uh, one of his...
He owns a furniture store in, um, Jacksonville, Florida, also, and he was talking to the guy who is a partner with him, and he was talking about some CRM stuff, some customer service informa- things that they haven't really incorporated and talking about a website and talking about some social media. (laughs) And I'm like, "Have you looked at, Go High Level yet?" And he's like, "What's that?" Oh, I'm so glad. You guys are like 35. (laughs) And look at me.
(laughs) (laughs) Look at me because I went to Dallas, and I learned about, uh, something that really is an excellent tool for a business person from you. So thanks for always giving us the opportunity to have, um, cutting edge technology and to be aware of things that can help us, um, uh, stay ahead. Yep. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, that's, that's the goal. That's the mission. So, you know, I'm glad to, glad to hear it's working out for you.
And, uh, yeah, again, I, I really appreciate you coming on and, and sharing everything here today, Katie. Well, I appreciate you so much too. Thank you so much. All righty. Have a good one. You too. Bye-bye. Bye. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Builder Stories. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and gained valuable insights that can help you in your journey along the way. Don't forget to subscribe to this show and leave us a review.
And as always, if you or someone you know has a story to share, please contact us at builderstories.com. We'd love to hear from you. I'm Erik Fortenberry, and remember, every builder has a unique story. Keep building yours.