Welcome to the podcast where we take a deep dive into the stories behind construction business leaders. We will share how they got started, how they found success and the lessons learned along the way. I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry. Welcome to Builder Stories. Welcome back everybody. I hope everyone's having a great week. We are excited to have David Hopkins. With J and T construction here today. They are actually located in our hometown, Dallas, Texas.
So very excited to have, uh, have a local, uh, Dallas site on the show today. Uh, but David, he is the vice president of sales with J and T. They are a, they do a lot of multifamily work as well as some commercial work, you know, both new builds and, you know, interior finish out remodel type work. So really excited to have you here today, David, welcome to builder stories. Thank you very much. Thanks so much, Eric, and the whole Job Tread team for having me out. It's great. Yeah, absolutely.
So why don't you tell us a little bit about, you know, you could probably do a much better job than I do. What, what does J& T do? How did you guys get started? Yeah. Yeah. Um, so J& T, my, my time with J& T started back about 11 years ago, 12 years ago. And we started off doing a lot of residential remodeling or additions and fix and flips and stuff like that. I think that's how a lot of contractors in our space kind of got started as well.
And, uh, we learned pretty quick that you can't scale that as much as we wanted. So over time we grew into the multifamily and commercial spaces and. Now that's really where we find ourselves living in those two niches, the multifamily and the commercial side. Awesome. So how did you, how did you first get into construction? Like what, what brought you into, uh, you know, into, into this business and into this industry?
Yeah. So my history really started in exteriors and waterproofing and roofing. That's where I spent a lot of my time. Like when I was younger, I was doing a lot of that stuff, kind of the storm chasing type roofing work, but I stayed in the specialty zone and. You know, tile, um, old historic buildings. That's really where I found my, my biggest interest in roofing.
And then, uh, like I said, 11, 12 years ago or so we ended up in Dallas and I shifted over into, I wanted to get back into general contracting cause I had done that, like, you know, growing up, my family had a construction company. So I had an interest in going into general construction and that's when I met. Uh, George and Tasha, they were the owners of J& T at the time and George still the owner now.
So I, uh, I met them and that's, we kind of grew from there, you know, we started off, like I said, doing the residential and then we've grown it into doing commercial and multifamily over the years. That's awesome. So did you, did you start in sales and kind of just sort of work your way up? Yeah. So when I, yeah, when I first came in, I was, I was leading a sales team at a roofing company in Fort Worth. And so when I came in, I really just wanted to get involved in as much as I could.
And so I started off leading pre construction even back then, um, we were a really small team, so I would estimate jobs. I would take them all the way through handoff, do some purchasing work if I needed to. And, you know, that's really where I started the journey of Being a system builder really for, for JNT and for in construction, uh, construction management, like that sort of starting doing all the roles on pre construction all the way seeing it through production.
That's what allowed me to kind of. I guess cement myself, you know, yeah, that's awesome. So when you, when you first joined, what, what was the company, you know, how big was the company, you know, who did they have on and, and what is it today? Like what's the full team look like? Yeah. So, I mean, we still stay pretty lean today even, but a lot of that's because we have, we have our subcontractor and vendor networks in all over Texas, but we have them in multiple states.
So even though we're able to mobilize, say we have a project in South Dakota right now, we have a couple of projects in Arkansas. Uh, we have a few projects here in Texas, Houston and Dallas area. We're able to do that because of our vendor and, and subcontractor relationships, basically. And then we obviously heavily, uh, leverage our software to be able to manage projects from one location. I would say like team size wise, I think we have like 20 people on the team now.
And back when I started, there was, I think four or five of us, you know, it was just owner, you know, like me and George shared an office and we just. We kind of wrote bids together, right? Like he would write some, I would write some and we would go on inspections together even back then. So, um, you know, now, uh, one thing to note about J& T is J& T is one part of sort of like a call, like a vertically integrated tree, right?
We have, uh, Elevate, which is Elevate Commercial Investment Group, which is our, you can, we can buy the properties. Or sell them. Then we have J and T where we can build, do, do all the construction, do all the value add, do everything we need to do. And then, so this is obviously in the multi family space. And then we have equity REM, which is our property manager.
So we can sort of take care of these, these projects now from the whole, from very first inception, all the way through, you know, the exit on the backend on the real estate side. So that's really, I think. The advantage that JNC offers in our growth, we've, we've grown in a way where we can connect more with our investor clients. That's great. So I'm, I'm curious.
I mean, I see a lot of people who they, they start in the residential space, like, just like you guys did, but sort of aspire to get into the commercial, you know, what would you say the biggest differences are from, you know, selling and, you know, managing projects that are, you know, residential base versus, you know, getting into that multifamily, that commercial? That's a great question. I think there's a couple of things that are the biggest.
I think the first thing is, Your, your vendor and, or if you're using subs, if you don't have self performed labor, those relationships have to be on point and you need to get appropriate relationships for the kind of projects you're doing. So a lot of guys, I think they try to grow, they'll use the same network of subs or vendors that they were using on the residential side. And then you really quick, hopefully you're learning that on the multifamily side, it's not going to translate.
And the same thing applies from commercial to residential or commercial to multifamily. So sub and vendor network is one of them. Um, and then number two, I think it's, you can get away with a really modest, uh, software or technology package. If you're just doing smaller jobs, you know, not that technology isn't going to be great for you. I think you still need to utilize it, but I'm saying that you can get away with it. On a, if you're doing kitchen remodels, that's all you're doing.
But as you start to grow, if you don't have something to manage your, your schedules, your estimating your files. I just, I feel like you're setting yourself up for, for a bad time. So those are really the two big things, I think, outside of just having the right people on your team. Yeah. So I wanna, we'll come back to the, uh, the technology side.
So when you say they're like the subs who I guess are typically working in the residential space, it doesn't necessarily translate to the commercial. Is that, you know, they, they don't, their crews, you know, they don't have enough crews. They don't, they're not. You know, skilled enough, dependable enough. Like, what do you see sort of the, you know, the differences being there?
Like what, what should people be looking for in a, in a, in a sub that's going to do commercial work versus residential. Yeah, I mean, it's it's a fair question because everybody deserves the chance to get started, right? So certainly you may have some vendors that you really love that they say they want to get started in a commercial space But you just haven't seen them do the work.
So I think for me, it's obviously you need to be vetting so making sure that for the type of project they're doing they have the right kind of insurance or Whatever your project says it needs, you need to make sure that they have that, of course, because residential requirements are much different from commercial or even, you know, new construction. So, I would say making sure you're vetting, and then as far as the vendors go, I think it's in, in multifamily specifically, it's a volume issue.
I mean, A lot of these guys may have the skill that they need and they may be great carpenters say, but could they do 30 units at a time? You know, I think, you know, and how do you verify that? Well, it takes a little bit of work. Like you need to get portfolios, you need to vet, that's part of vetting. But you need to be able to have that relationship with your vendors where they trust you enough to be honest with you too. Because.
Me, like us, we do lots of different kinds of projects, so we can put those guys where they need to be. You know, if, if you're really good at the new construction, let's keep you there and we'll, we'll keep you fed. And on the multifamily side, let's keep you where you do your best. I think there's a little bit of, it's like a nurturing you can do with your vendors in that sense, to help put them in the right place, to make them successful for you.
So do you, do you, like, when you first bring on a new, a new sub, like, do you put them through like some sort of test or exercise? Like, do they kind of try them out on a smaller job and then decide if you want to sort of bump them up to the, to the larger jobs? Yeah, exactly. Um, one of the things I do if, if it is brand new to us, I have a couple of just older job files where I'll let them know they're like, Hey, look, I have a set of plans from this property that we built.
I just need you to take a look at it. Give me a review. Give me a baseline estimate. Give me some takeoffs. I like to understand, like, if where's their knowledge at, you know, because I don't mind our team having to help coach vendors and subs up. I mean, that's okay too, because then you can, again, nurture the relationship. But I think it's good to figure out what somebody's baseline is. It'd be just like if we were hiring a new project manager for our team, you know.
You may want to give them some tests, right? Give them the ability to review plans. You want to, they might say that they can, but see if they're used to the kind of detail that you're used to. Makes sense. So I'm curious. I mean, you, you mentioned that you're now doing work in, in, in multiple states. You know, what, what did that look like going from just doing work here in Texas to, you know, expanding to other states and like, what, what.
What are some of the differences that you've seen, like from state to state or, you know, you know, kind of finding different crews in different states. Like how has that all worked for you? Yeah. Yeah. And I, to preface to on the multi state stuff, we focus on multifamily and, and out of Texas markets. So for commercial work, we stay in Texas and mainly that's just because of vendor availability, you know, just knowing the municipalities and just, there's a lot more that goes into, I think.
Doing a tenant build out and being able to mobilize in multiple states. I think that's, we're not set up, we're set up to do the multifamily remodeling in multiple states. The main reason there is that a lot of our core vendor network is able to kind of travel with us. So we find out where they're able to go and then we kind of target those markets. Um, and then the other thing you have to obviously worry about is licensing.
So if you know, we have licenses in a, in a few states, I don't know them off the top of my head, but where some of them reciprocate, so then you're able to have access to multiple states, but that's something you have to check out right away, like I say, you're operating in Texas, then you want to operate in say, New Mexico, you better make sure you have what you need to be able to do that.
So. Um, but reciprocation is great because if you do have a license somewhere and you can maintain it, then you can work in other states because of that too. Yeah, absolutely. So that's interesting though. It sounds like, so some of your crews, you'll actually, they'll travel to the state where the, where the job is and it's probably similar type job just in a different state. Is it, is the, is the multifamily, is that like under the same owner?
Uh, under the same owner as far as the, the clients go.
Uh, I mean, sometimes, so remember, because we have our own, you know, we work with Elevate, so like, we do a lot of Elevate's projects, so like, if Elevate gets one, then we'll go out of the area to do those, but, um, yeah, sometimes it is the same client that'll be, say, from here, and then they'll do a job in a different area, um, as far as the vendors themselves, though, like, you know, one good example would be, you know, we have a, a tried and true, uh,
steel, uh, fabricator here that does, like, carports or steel structures, right? So I'll come to him and ask first, you know, look, we're doing two projects in Northwest Arkansas. What does that look like for you? Timeline? You know, are you able to mobilize? What do you guys need? There's cases where maybe our vendors, maybe it's one of our own properties and we can get our vendors a unit to stay in while they're there working, right?
There's lots of creative ways especially when you have the advantage of where we acquire the properties to. You can find ways to get your vendors there. The ones that you trust, the ones that you already have vetted. Um, it doesn't always work but if you can, I definitely suggest trying to find a way. That's, that's awesome.
I mean, you know, again, I, I think that's the, uh, You know, when, when I was in the commercial GC, we, you know, we did a lot of work for like public storage and some other national brands that, you know, we, we, we built the relationship really strong here with the local, you know, guy and then sort of walked up to, to meet the regional guys.
And then ultimately, you know, we were able to expand into other markets like, you know, California, Oklahoma, Arkansas, like where, you know, they, they just kind of had that relationship with our guy who sort of brought us in, but then we had to go out. And build our own crew and find the subs.
And so like it, a lot of times it sort of felt like starting over, even though we had the contract and we had the work, but you know, again, you're, you're kind of starting fresh with the guys who, you know, it's, it's, you know, you got your tried and true crew here, you know, so it's, it's nice that it sounds like you can, you can actually get those guys to mobilize. So I know sometimes that's possible. Sometimes it's not. Yeah, it's true.
And you, and you, I mean, the same way with like, I think leveraging your clients in your, your client relationships as well. It's similar with your sub and vendor networks. And what I mean by that is, you know, we're doing a commercial remodel right now, and the client actually had an HVAC vendor that they loved and that they're going to work with on this deal. So I got that information on the front end. Well, I got to touch base with them because I want to get to know them.
We're going to be working together on this project. I don't know him. I had a great conversation. I learned a lot about their company and I immediately sent him three more ITBs. 30 minutes later. Hey, nice. You know, you're, you look great. You look qualified. Here's three other projects we're doing right now that aren't linked to that other client. They're, they're our own, our own projects. Take a look at these for us because.
Again, he was referred to us in the sense that the client really liked him, you know, but then in other scenarios, I may meet a vendor, a great vendor in a new area, I'll ask them, you know, who do you know, who do you know in this area that you trust, who do you see on all these projects that you do, that's to me the greatest way to network with other vendors is to just talk to the ones you already know, because those guys see each other on these projects and they
know who's doing a good job, they know Maybe who hasn't done such a good job. Um, you know, I think that's a, a really great thing that can easily just be overlooked, you know? Yeah, no, that's, that's a great point. I mean, I, you know, I hear all the time people struggle, you know, to, to really build that bench, you know, of, of, of subs and like, you know, really having, you know, you, you keep referring to it as that network, you know, and you're absolutely right.
It's all about tapping into that network and, you know, to some extent, I sort of feel like that might be a little bit harder on the residential side because you kind of got a bunch of sort of solo. You know, people out there and, you know, every project is, is kind of its own little thing versus on the commercial side, you know, just like how that guy introduced you, you know, to someone, you know, that they really like, you know, I mean, you immediately jumped on that.
You saw that as an opportunity to, Hey, if this guy's great coming highly recommended, well, you know, I got some work for him too. And, you know, bringing them into your fold, you know, it's a great way to, to, to build that. You know, I, I preach all the time. It's like, you know, you got to treat these, you know, these, these subs as, you know, just like leads, like, you know, you got to nurture them. You got to stay in touch.
You got to make sure that the good ones, you know, you can keep getting them involved and hopefully they'll, they'll become go tos for you. Yeah. And I think, I think you're, you're right on the point because, or right on the nose, the The relationships you have with your vendors will make or break you as your company. It's just as important as your clients. I mean, yeah, obviously you need clients because you need to be able to write contracts in order to do work.
But if you don't have good relationships with your vendors, and this goes for suppliers as well as subs, if you don't have those, those relationships, they're not nurtured, you're not keeping up with your communication. You're, you're just going to be in a bad situation because you're not going to be able to build the jobs that you've got signed up.
Um, I think it happens to a lot of contractors, you know, they, they focus 80 percent of their energy on their clients, which they need a lot of your energy, but then they give 10, 20 percent to their sub and vendor relationships. And you're, you're always going to be in a cycle where you're, you're trying to find new people and that's no position to put yourself in. Yep.
100%. You know, you, you also mentioned the importance of, you know, having the, the, the right software and technology in place and how.
You know, as, as, uh, as a, as a residential builder, you know, maybe that, you know, you don't have to be as organized or as buttoned up, you know, you're taking on smaller jobs, probably, you know, lower volume at times, you know, but then as you, as you kind of expanded into the multifamily into the commercial, you know, it really became even more important to have, you know, the, the, the, the full set of tools that you need to manage the job. I mean, can you tell us a little bit about.
Sort of what, what did that transition look like for you guys? And, you know, what do you think is the most important that people need to make sure that they're focused on? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just as important as communication and networking and all those things is how you're able to deliver your data, your information, your estimates to your, to your client. And then how well are you able to keep yourself organized during construction?
So for us, we started off like, I don't know, 99. 9 percent of everybody, which is with Excel. Uh, we had these wildly intricate Excel sheets that George and I spent years fine tuning and tweaking. And what, you know, you forget one spot and you could throw your thing off, you know, and they're great. I still use spreadsheets from time and time. You, you just, you need to throw something together. There's nothing wrong with it.
Um, again, people have successful businesses with Excel, but I think the advantage of leveraging software is that it it's going to keep your team more organized. It's going to let you communicate more effectively, not just with your client, but with your vendors and your subs. Um, and then on the backend, it's also going to help you keep your money organized.
So if you have something that can integrate with your accounting software, Either way, it's just those, the whole cycle, the, the, the software technology can connect you from the very beginning until the very end. And then it also gives you the ability to keep up with your network. I mean, so once the job is done, what do you do then? Where's that client's information? How do you manage your follow ups?
You know, I think to me, the power comes when as many of those things that I just mentioned are in one solution, you know, that's when you have something that's powerful.
Do you think that, you know, like for, for the, for the residential guys, I mean, like, you know, oftentimes we see people come in and they want to sort of start with the estimating and, you know, trying to, you know, kind of manage the, you know, one job and the budget, you know, but they, they, You know, kind of the, the, the project management side can be an afterthought, the, you know, scheduling the, you know, having POs and work orders and making sure that
every bill is tied back and like, you know, managing the, the, the finances. I mean, that often is kind of the secondary, you know, thing for these, these builders. I mean, do you think that's just a function of, you know, they're still kind of really trying to, to get that, you know, get the volume and sort of get into, you know, Hey, I'm, I'm not just a solo owner operator anymore. I need to build out a team and I need to manage this.
You know, a bunch more people, you know, or do you think it's just, they just don't know yet what they don't know. Yeah, it's yeah, it's true. I think, I think it could be. A mix of things, you know, a lot of people start off, like you said, just one person or two people on the team and then you don't really know how to fold additional, you know, team players into your mix.
Um, but you also have the issue of multiple people coming together to form a company and then people have done things differently. They're, they're set in their ways. They, you know, you have a project manager who's like, I write my stuff in a notebook every morning when I have my coffee and I write it down, right? I keep my list. I stay organized.
And, and maybe they do, I think that the, the idea though, with the software where even you could leverage it as a smaller, smaller company would be, I would say, think about it like having an administrative assistant that can do all kinds of tasks for you. That's in the background. That's always there. That's always ready. You think of something at 10 o'clock at night, you can pop that open, save a note for yourself. You know, to me, it's just, again, it's eliminating all those little things.
Uh, taking notes here, keeping a photo there, you know, that's the part that will bog you down as you grow. As you get more complex projects, you need a place to store your documents, you need a place to store your vendor lists, your client lists, like, like I said, when you start knocking off multiple things and you have one solution, then you just, it's going to allow you to improve. It's going to allow you to do bigger and better projects.
How do you go about like when you want to implement this software or any technology within your business? Like, how do you go about that? And what does that, what does that look like from, you know, getting it set up to, you know, getting buy in from the team and training, you know, everyone from, from your own team to, to your subs and suppliers, like, how do you, how do you, how do you approach that? True. Yeah, no, it's a great question. So obviously.
Uh, we use Job Tread cause we're talking to you here, but, uh, before we go to that, so originally what I used to do is I would, we wanted to implement a new software, a new system. There really wasn't a lot of options to direct people to, you know, with, with previous things we've used, especially if it was Excel. So I would just build like a training, we would have like a training handbook basically. And I would build that and we would host a meeting and have everybody come in.
We would do a training in house. It takes the whole team's bandwidth for multiple days. Everybody's got to be there. Everybody's got to go through the training. Um, and it would work, you know, it was the only option at the time. Um, I think when you contrast that with what's available, you know, now in 2025, you look at job track, for example. You know, one of the first things I did when I got in the software was the help desk tab and then all the trainings that I could do.
And got myself certified in all the things that I'm going to be asking the team to use so that I knew what it was like to go through it. And then I can say, these are the ones you guys need to check out. And you guys have gone a step further where you have everything organized into, you know, by that person's role. So like say a project manager or accounting or estimating or sales.
And that's really important because the software is so complex that you, you have people on your, your team, they can do it, but, or rather it's not so complex that one person couldn't learn the whole thing, but if you want to have people do like just one task, if you have somebody that's just doing accounting. You can have them do it, but you can also have your project manager take the accounting course. So they understand what your accountant has to go through.
They understand why it's important to load the change orders the right way, or attach your work orders to the lad and it's the correct way. And I think that's where the training starts to bridge your team together to make you guys more powerful as a group. Is everybody understands what the other person's having to do when they're going through the workflow, you kind of have each other's backs.
You know, I mean, it's, uh, you know, it can often be, you know, I, I know firsthand, cause when we first, you know, we're building this out when I was running the construction company, like I had a couple of guys, you know, one in particular, just like very resistant. To change said, look, I've been doing it this way for the last 10 years. Like it's, it works for me. It's like, okay, well, that's great, but it's not working for everyone else.
Like we don't, you know, you're, you're trying to just call the subs and say, you got these guys, but like none of us, you know, the rest of the team's new, you know, and so it's like, we weren't able to really, you know, kind of work well with him. And so like it took me having to sit down with him, you know, and just have some of that one on one time, like, Hey, man, like, show me your process. If I can show you a better way to do it, you know, would you be willing to adopt?
He's like, yeah, but you're not going to find a better way. And it's like, all right, well, you know what, we'll see about that. We'll set that aside for a second. But like, you know, I, at least for me, I found that like, you know, really digging in to the people who you do get that resistance to change from, because I mean, that will happen, that is inevitable.
And, and ultimately like, you got to figure out like, how do I, you know, articulate and demonstrate like how this will directly impact their day to day? How is this going to help them be more efficient, more effective? You know, how is this going to help them be a better team member to everyone else? Like at the end of the day, like you got to sort of figure out how do you get them motivated to want to adopt, you know, whatever that solution may be.
You know, and ultimately, I mean, I turned that guy from our biggest naysayer into our biggest evangelist who would ultimately go around and yell at everyone else if they didn't have their, you know, put the schedules in and they didn't have, you know, the data in the system. And so it's like, you know, I think, you know, that's just kind of one example here.
I mean, I'm curious, have you had to deal with, you know, people who just gave you the pushback and they weren't, you know, immediately ready to adopt? Like, and how did you sort of overcome that?
Yeah, but on both sides, not just employees, but also with subs and vendors, I think we've had vendors where they have a really hard time being able to adopt, you know, maybe a software procedure, like if we're going to release our ITBs in, um, a software, how do they go about submitting their estimate to us? You know, I think there are different strategies.
Well, I guess it's sort of the same now that I think about it, because, Whether it's your employee or it's a, uh, a vendor contact, really what you're trying to do is free up their time because if from a vendor, if, if I can teach them how to get everything uploaded and they know when they send a message, they're communicating with all the point of contacts they need to at once, they don't have to worry about saying a text and an email and a phone, you know, same thing for your internal team.
When I've had issues with like employees where they push back on the technology. I go by the approach of, let me show you how it works, and let me show you the benefit in real life. Here it is right here. Because if you have a system that's working for you, it shouldn't be hard to find that solution in real time and show that employee or show that vendor. Like Here's the advantage of a takeoff, right? You have it. It's right here.
I have everything verified when say your plumber comes and asks you how many running foot of that gas line that I need. I have the answer, you know, if, if I don't have a takeoff solution or I don't have a place to view my plans.
That's a really easy one to illustrate, you know, and I think those people that are against the change or against the technology I found the easiest way to get them to buy into something is showing the benefit to the time that they're saving in their day, like removing busy work, removing things that, that tie them up unnecessarily that don't let them tackle their main primary action items. Normally you can kind of see the light bulb turn on like.
Oh, wait, you mean I don't have to do those other three things? And it's like, no, if you do it this way, you're going to not just save yourself time, but you're skipping steps later. Um, and I think that applies to whether it's an employee or if it's to a vendor. Have you ever had to like either remove someone or threatened to remove them or not pay them over, you know, them not being willing to use, you know, adopt the processes and technology?
I think we've had a few vendors that, that maybe going through the vetting process, like they, they just, they can't provide what we need them to provide. I would say, you know, you have to make that hard decision, you know, are you willing to take a risk? Is your company willing to take a risk on hiring that vendor? Um, I would say, I can't remember a time where we ever had to let anybody go. I think that generally those things work themselves out. You might have people that are.
Harder to adapt to a process or procedure. But I think if you have like a whole bunch of your employees kind of fight back at you all at once, you may want to, may want to turn the mirror a little bit, make sure that what you're asking for, you know, have, and I would say as a, as a leader, are, are you willing to do the process that you're asking them to do and have you learned it? Like, did you put the time in to learn?
Whatever it is, you're asking your team to do, you know, I can say confidently that when I'm, when I'm teaching these guys what to do, I've done it. And I think that that's important, especially with software processes and with, um, you know, implementing some new system management, leadership, ownership, whatever needs to have that understanding. I realize you got to trial some things out too, but for the most part, I mean, understand what your goals are and how you're going to implement it.
And then it'll increase your buy in. Yeah, I couldn't, couldn't agree more. I mean, I think, you know, again, you gotta be a great role model yourself. And if people see you not using it, not understanding it, then, you know, how are you going to get their trust and their buy in, uh, you know, it sounds like, you know, you're, you're, you're probably one of the champions, you know, for the systems and processes at, at, at J and T and, you know, I think that's great, you know, have you, you.
You know, basically you've documented and created kind of your, your SOPs and like, is that just part of the new, new employee or new sub onboarding process? Like they, they're, they're, it's all documented there. Is that, is that what you've done? Like created like a manual or something to help them? Yeah, we still use, uh, we keep that stuff pretty simple. Just use, you know, cloud drive docs. So we can, you know, edit the SOPs whenever we need, open them up and edit them.
We were just editing our, our incoming sales process. You know, this past week. And I think that's another important note. You gotta, you gotta check that stuff from time and time.
Like if, especially as you add new features or new people to the team, you know, be willing to make a change if you need to, like if something just isn't working and you're grinding gears, change it, you know, we found a really cool, um, integration the other day for job try that we're going to try to implement next week with a, I think it's like Zapier or something, and it'll let us get our.
Or instead of entering our new clients or leads into two places, it's going to allow us to enter into job tread, which is what the SOP says to do. And now it'll automatically send that client to the other software we use for like our constant contact drip campaign. So again, you gotta be willing to go in there and change something and improve the process when you need to. Yeah. I love that.
You know, again, so many times, you know, people kind of get stuck in their ways and they don't want to continually, you know, adapt and it's like that, you know, just in today's day and age, like, you know, you gotta continue to look at how can we improve, you know, put your ego aside and say, Hey, we're not perfect and we never will be. You know, we, we might strive for perfection, but let's just always look at it.
And, and, you know, I think it's important to that, like, you know, especially, you know, the, the leadership of, of companies can, can, can, you know, again, be, be open. And let their team come to them with frustrations or challenges or ideas and say, Alright, you know, like I, I hear you. Now let's figure out, you know, what is a, what is a good solution? How can we make this better?
How can we, you know, eliminate, you know, duplicate entry or, you know, whatever process they may be working on? You know, a lot of times, you know, when you focus on it, when you understand that that's a bottleneck for someone or some process, then that will help you come up with a better way to do it. You know, you just, you got to be open and you got to solicit that feedback from your team and, and, and be willing to hear it.
Yeah. Yeah. Hearing the feedback I think is key because, you know, you may know the process that you want from top to bottom, but at, but also you're not necessarily the person that is doing it every day. So just listen to that feedback. And, you know, if you've got a team of really any, any size, a few people up to, you know, 50, you got to be meeting regularly with your team.
Even if you keep it brief, but just meeting so that everybody's on the same page about, about basic SOP stuff, and then have a way to update those documents. Um, you know, we even started, uh, we added a, we have like a client in job trade, that's our own company. And then we use the dashboard to put our meeting notes in now. So we're trying to just live in job trade.
And that's, you know, again, remember what I said at the beginning, the more things you can do in one solution, that's when you start to really have power. And I think it's. It just gives, people don't have to think about where to go. They know where to go to get their information, to communicate, whatever. So find creative ways to utilize these tools and leverage them to help you be successful. Yeah, that's awesome.
Can you walk us through kind of, so, you know, from, from pre construction, you know, sales, kind of, what does that, what does that process look like? And, and I'm curious, like, how do you. How do you involve, you know, job tread within the sales process? Like, is that able to be, you know, a selling point or, you know, uh, an added benefit to the client to help them decide to move forward with you guys? Yeah, so we actually start, we start talking about our software system immediately.
So from the time we get an incoming lead in, most of our, most of our client leads are, they're referral based because we do so much networking. We, we just, we don't spend a ton on advertising. It's, it's, it's referrals. So we get a lead that comes in and the, our, our admin at the office will respond and we're basically telling them about the company with our initial response. We even have little screenshots in there to show what Job Tread looks like.
Here's what your dashboard would look like. Here's, you know, this is what we do. And then we have our portfolio. So from the initial, uh, incoming lead, we're letting them know right away, like you're getting that white glove treatment. Um, and then from there, it basically just, we, we get their information into It's a job trade. We create a customer. And then from there, our business development team can start the initial conversations.
Now you do this with your estimating team without having biz dev. But if you if you have the resources for a business development rep, then it's a good way to get them making constant contact with your clients right from the get go. And then as your estimator is also getting to know them and working through the process of the bid, You have somebody else who's, who's just always there for them, you know, because you're, you're estimating and sales team can get really backed up.
So we sort of leverage both, you know, so, um, but yeah, once it's in job tread, um, from there, anything we do at site visits, um, any of the plans, documents, any of the specifications, photos, videos. All that information goes in there. Um, now once we, we kind of keep it as a customer until we decide for sure, we're going to go after it. Like we're going to try to do an estimate. We do personally, uh, spend a little bit of time qualifying the clients to see if. Are they a fit for us? Right?
The same as if we're a fit for them, hopefully as a contractor, you're able to see if the client is a fit for you. Um, once we've decided as a team that we're going to pursue, uh, which is generally a conversation between myself and Luke, who's our director of construction, then we'll, we'll move it forward and we'll create a job at that.
And then the job is where the estimate will live, the budget, and uh, we'll just copy all the files from the customer over to the job so that everything kind of lives in there. And then our BizDev team will keep on the customer profile to track communications and ongoing things. All, they kind of just live in the customer tab and then our estimating and production team lives in the job tab. So, and now more recently. The plans tab for the takeoff. So just, uh, thank you so much.
Uh, we, we live there now too. So, um, that's great. So that all, you know, the files were already there and you could already view plans before, but sure. Even if you're not doing takeoffs, this is a, a fantastic way to just see your spec really quick. Yeah. Um, but yeah, so, and then the clients basically, those jobs live in there through the full, the full cycle. I mean, we have the client sign the estimate, we release our contract. Um, all that's through Job Tread.
And then we track, uh, the billing and stuff on the back end. Every, basically the whole life cycle we, we exist within Job Tread. Yeah, that's awesome. So were you guys using something else for, uh, for your takeoffs before? Yes, yes. We, so I spent a lot of years using, uh, PlanSwift. And then more recently I was using StackCT, which is web based. Um, you know, some advantages, but Again, having it in one place to me, like I said, the more things you have in one place, man, you just.
Your, your team doesn't have to leave and yourself, you don't have to leave it. So, um, and I, I like what you guys did, uh, with the takeoff overall. I think the way you built it is great. Um, and for anybody that thinks there's anything missing with job tread, just take a look at the, the, what is it? The suggestions tab where you guys have like hundreds of things. You're actively engaging with your, with your clients. Uh, who are asking for, for added things. I mean, it's incredible.
I mean, I've never experienced that with a software company before where you have a direct link with the development team on the, the apps and features and integrations they're working on. It just, I promise you, whoever's watching this, if you're thinking something that JobTread doesn't do, I promise it's in that list. You know, it may not be the top item, but it's in that list already. I promise you.
I mean, it's, you know, at the end of the day, it's, it's like, why, why wouldn't we want to collaborate with our customers and take that feedback and let them help us prioritize it? Cause you know, at the end of the day, like we, we want to make sure that we're delivering the features and the functions that, you know, that, that are, that our customers and that the market as a whole, they need.
And you know, there's, there's a lot of times where, You know, you can have people kind of ask for, you know, one, one off things that, you know, look at the end of the day, like nobody voted on and it wasn't, you know, it didn't seem like it was like something that was going to benefit everyone. It's like you gotta, you know, sometimes it can be hard though, you know, you got this really big customer who, who wants this very specific thing.
That's only going to benefit them, you know, like I've, I've learned it. My last, my last offer going to be like, you can't. You can't let one company hijack your development. You got to do what's right, you know, for the greater good of everyone.
And, you know, that's why we won't, you know, we, we won't let people pay for development or pay for, you know, custom features or whatever it's like, look, we, you know, if, if you think that's a great idea, then make sure it'll benefit everyone and go, you know, we, we got our Facebook group and people can go and rile other people up and drive the votes. And, you know, when it gets enough traction. And, and, and it's, you know, fully flushed out idea that makes sense.
And, you know, we love to deliver on that. I mean, that's, that's, that's how we can all win and we can work together as a community. And so I think it's, uh, you know, it's, it's definitely something very neat that, that we have been able to sort of, you know, form with this, with this, you know, relationship through the community to, to work together.
And, you know, obviously some people, you know, they, they, they feel really passionate about one particular thing and it's not getting up there and, you know, it's, it's, but it's, it's just, it's all a function of time. Right. And it's about doing what's, what's gonna, what's gonna benefit everyone. And so I think.
I think we've sort of found that good balance between, you know, leveraging, you know, the insight and the feedback versus also, I mean, we, you know, we do have our sort of vision and sometimes there's a, you know, just like in construction, right?
Like sometimes you gotta, you gotta lay the foundation for something and then a couple steps down the, down the, down the path, you know, you can actually get to that feature, you know, we, we, we sort of have to kind of take it all into, into account, but. You know, I think we've done a good job of, uh, sort of balancing the, you know, the, the customer feedback and then, you know, kind of from a technical standpoint, what we need to implement and do.
Well, I think, I think you've done a great job and, uh, not to get too granular, but I think that, so there are two things that stand out to me the most. So the first thing with Job Tread is the ability to, well, I have a rep that I talk to, and I have not yet encountered.
You know, I've only had experience with it for, I don't know, seven months or something, but, um, I, whenever I've encountered something that I'm unsure of, I've been able to work with my rep to find a way for us to figure it out. So even if it was like a workaround, maybe the, the feature that I need isn't exactly there, we've never yet been able to, to find something where we just hit a stone wall, right? There's always a way to, to tweak something to make it work for us.
Whether it be, you know, templating or, you know, cloning jobs or whatever it may be for us because we do a lot of repetitions. So we try to reuse the resources. Um, the second thing though is your foundational, I guess it's like the software framework. So what I love about it is from estimating all of my revisions can live in my budget. And then my budget can live for the duration of the project.
And what I mean by that is if you're not familiar with Job Tread, basically you enter your data in there for your estimates. You can create, you can just group and group and group and group and group. So you can like, you can have all of your revisions of your estimate living in one budget. And I've used a lot of softwares over the years. Normally you're going to have multiple things. You have to pop in and out of them in order to see like, Hey, well, what, what did I have in version one?
What did I have in version two? What happened? Verse three, you've got 16 windows open. I can go to one budget tab and I can have six groups in there. If I want to grab 20, there's probably some limit, but, um, I can see all of them. I was literally doing it this morning. I had a project where we were on V3. I needed to see what we had done on V1. I can just.
Expand and collapse v1 in the same budget and just check what I had, you know, I mean it that foundation though, because it lets you price, then you can see your markup, you can move to your accounting, you can see what you build, and it all lives in the same budget. I think that is the best. implementation of like a budget that bridges a whole project that I've ever seen.
Because every software that I've used gives you the ability to see a budget, but none of them until this that I've seen allow you to, to track everything in one place. And I think that gives you guys the ability to just add to it forever. You can just keep adding stuff, like add your takeoffs. Now you've got plans. Now you got, you know, to me, that's the biggest resource here is that your whole team can live in there. Um, you know, that's huge.
And then again, like I said, number one was the support from your, from your rep. I think that's cool. Hopefully you guys can always give that to your clients, even as you grow. I think that's great. Yeah, that's, that's absolutely the, the, the goal. And I mean, you know, we, we, we make it even harder on ourselves to hire because we require anyone who's coming into a customer facing role, like we want them to have experience in construction.
You know, I, I find that it's very hard, you know, to, to, to try to teach them what it's like to be a project manager, to be an estimator, to be a construction business owner, to, you know, they're like, that's just, that is just experience that if they have that, they can like.
Have that empathy and they can relate so much better and know what the, the, the person on the other end of the phone, what the client, what the user is feeling and what they're going through and what they're trying to solve, you know, versus just bringing any random person off the street. I mean, we can teach anyone job tread. But I can't give them that innate experience being part of a construction company, you know, in some form or fashion.
I mean, it's not like, you know, we're going to say you have to have worked at a GC or at a home builder. Like, well, you know, we can make it fairly broad, but like it, I think that really helps us to resonate and connect with our clients. I didn't know you did that, but now that I know that, that is, it makes a lot of sense.
I mean, it makes sense why you have these little things that I think just work or click because the people writing it or working on your team have, they have experience in construction, so it definitely shows. Yeah, absolutely. You know, our, uh, the developer who wrote the whole takeoff, I mean, he came from one of the, the, the top largest GCs in the country and he like literally spent, you know, years. Doing takeoff and using all these other solutions.
And so like, it was just a natural, no brainer, uh, for us to take on that endeavor when, when we were able to recruit them to come join us. But, you know, I do, I do think that, you know, we, we very intentionally started with focusing on the financials, the budget I I've never seen any other software that can do what our budget.
You know, but I think too, it's, it's about making sure that when you design, you know, the, the, the software that it's, it's flexible enough to meet the various needs. I mean, at the end of the day, you know, managing construction projects, you know, managing construction business, like the fundamentals of it aren't like really that different, but you have to be able to have that flexibility to manage the unique situations, you know, like.
You know, especially in your situation, commercial, I mean, you got a lot of revisions, a lot of different moving components, you know, versus, Hey, I'm going to come in and just tear out, you know, a kitchen and, and put in a new one, you know, that might not be as long lived of a project and there might not be as much, you know, kind of versions if you will.
Um, but I think that's, that's how we very intentionally design this is, is to make it, you know, very flexible to meet the needs of a lot of different types of construction businesses. I think it does. I mean, I think, I don't think there's any reason that. You could be a kitchen remodeling company. Uh, you could just be a single trade. You could be an electrical firm, a tile layer, flooring company, whatever. I think the benefit here would, would still be good.
I mean, I, I still would, I would be willing to bet that you would see an improvement in your business. Regardless. Now, whether or not your business is set up to, to, to make the jump, that's a different, that's different thing. But I think that you would see an improvement in your workflow for sure. So a lot of times, you know, we're starting to get a whole bunch of commercial contractors looking at us.
I mean, you know, they're spending a fortune with, with Procore and some of the other, you know, kind of larger solutions out there. I mean, like, uh, I think kind of one of the, the most common questions we get asked is like, you know, how, how do you handle like. RFIs, you know, and so like kind of what does that, what does that process look like for you? Yeah, I mean, for me, again, because we're sort of training the clients up from the beginning.
So once, once we get to the point where we're estimating, I've introduced them to the software. So I'm able to communicate normally inside a job tread. We have a couple of clients who just, they're traveling all the time. They're just all over. So it's, it's a little bit harder to get them to. You know, explaining how you can use it on your phone and stuff. But the fact that I can still message within Job Tread and get information back.
Um, sometimes if it's an RFI on a document, I'll simply start a conversation with them in the document itself. You know, I can mark it up and then release it to them in there as like a message. If it's somebody who's a little less savvy with the software, then I just sort of send it normally from the document like so in the conversation, that's another great thing.
You have conversations directly in a document, so if I've released my proposal to the client, I'll generally have the conversation there if it's something after proposal, but if it's an RFI during say they gave me their plans. Uh, we had one this past week that was, that was pretty complicated, you could say, for an RFI and I was able to just mark up the document in Job Tread and then comment to him and then he was able to review it and respond back to me.
So, I mean, the process is pretty fast and easy now. You guys may even have some ways to utilize that I just haven't even learned yet, but I, I just keep a folder basically in the files that has, A record of the conversations. And then if I'm not sending messages in job tread, but, uh, normally I just have the conversation right on the specification or the plans or whatever the document is, that's where I'm asking the questions.
Yep. That's pretty much, pretty much what I've heard from all of our other commercial builders too. They're like, look, you can do it all right there in the document. Like you can have as much detail as you need. And they're just like, honestly, like we get way fewer, you know, requests for more information because we've already been able to deliver the level of detail that they need. We've given them access to, to, to the plants, the files, the, you know, whatever it may be. And so like.
I think that's like the really neat thing. I mean, I've, you know, I've seen Procore, they got a very elaborate, you know, kind of processes for RFI submittals, things like that. Um, but you know, again, I think at the end of the day, like we, we want to keep job tread, you know, as, as, as simple as we can to make it easy to use so that you can involve people, but we've still given you the power to share however much detail and the information that you need.
So I think it is about just kind of figuring out that right process and where, you know, to, to manage that, that communication and back and forth. Yeah, no, I agree. I think, again, I think, I think the only, um, yeah, I mean, I think the only, the only struggles I have is just hitting, uh, hitting your ceiling for quantities, like, uh, I blew past the 100 page plan thing, like, literally in 10 seconds. Um, but that was fine because it doesn't really matter.
Like, you could just load the stuff that you need to load for your takeoffs and then you can just back pages out. So again, you guys, Because of the way you guys communicate and your dedication to, to talking to your clients about your, your, your ideas for the future, those kinds of things just simply don't, they do not bother me. Like if I encounter something where I'm like, Oh, it's only a hundred pages for the plans only, like most people would never hit a hundred pages, right?
Um, but I know that that's not going to be that way forever. And I know that I can just submit a feature request or I can reach out to my rep and find out what the plans are. Um, for the future and it's going to be, there'll be a solution, right? Um, or like when I, I clone my, uh, RFPs too many times, you know, too, too quickly or whatever, but that again, that's a, that's a, like you said at the beginning, that's a, that's a individual, uh, construction company issue, right?
That's, that's a J and T thing. You guys are casting a net to service, you know, a thousand different kinds of contractors, right? So I think just. In the past, though, you work with software companies that they, when you say work with, there really was no work with, it was just, you bought the software and then you just got to figure out how to use it because there isn't any support. Yeah. Um, or there, there's an illusion of support.
There'll be somebody to talk to you on the phone, but they're not offering any solutions, right? It's just like you bought the software, that's what you got. So I think with you guys, I just feel collaborative and it's exciting to like see new features and. Uh, all the discussions come out and everything like that.
So one of the, probably the other big thing that we hear and, and, you know, we want to, you know, hopefully come up with a, a, a, a better solution for, you know, is, is the notion of like tracking retainage and then AIA billing, you know, the G702, G703, you know, I, we, we, we've talked to, to AIA, uh, the, the AIA org, you know, and, and, and there's, You know, some potential there, but it's like super expensive for us to like try to integrate that export directly.
And I've, I've heard a lot of builders just kind of have their own version of it and they just sort of plug in the numbers and then save their own PDF export in the same format, but not necessarily, you know, the official letterhead. AI document, but like, how do you guys manage that? I mean, like, obviously retainage is very, very important, you know, for commercial large projects. So, so what do you do to, to that?
I don't directly manage on the, on the backend, but from what I'm understanding is if we're encountering the G702 or 703, we're just going to manage the document, you know, freestanding outside, but you're all the data that you need to be loading into it. Like everything you're being built for and all that is, is already in builder trend. It's in job tread.
I still say that because they're the ones we don't speak of anymore because I moved on, um, happily, but I'm saying is that I, I used to, like, having to put the information into the G702 or 703, if you guys could integrate that to where the document could live inside of Job Tread, that would obviously be a huge improvement, I think, if you could do that because It is, it is time consuming to fill it out.
And you also have to have like, if your vendors aren't super up to speed, cause you'll run into that too, where like your vendor network, your subs that you're using, they don't even know how to fill out like the seven or three on their own side. Right. So you're basically doing, you're doing the whole thing. If you run into that situation, it's going to make things easier if you have it in your software too.
Um, but the way you guys do the budgeting now, I think all, all the data you need is right there. So you're, you're really just filling it out into the other format until you guys can integrate it. Um, have you also had talks about maybe bringing the, the contracts themselves into Job Tread where you could? You could release those out to, to people or no? A little bit. Yeah. I mean, it's, That would be interesting.
There's, uh, there's kind of this, uh, you know, we've got to sort of figure out what does this relationship look like with these, You know, these other companies, because I know, you know, obviously you would have to kind of bring your own account.
You know, we're not going to like increase the price of this for everyone when, you know, most people aren't going to need this or they're happily, you know, just going to sort of do it on their own and circumvent, uh, you know, spending a lot of money on these, on these, you know, Branded, you know, contracts and forms, if you will. But, um, yeah, I think that's, you know, again, it's, it's just kind of the other most common thing that we hear from commercial builders.
And at the end of the day, they're like, you know, if, if, if that's kind of the one little reporting nuance, I mean, we get you the data, you just got to sort of plug it into your own version of that contract. I mean, I, you know, again, one day I do want to see us get to that point, but, um, you know, other than that, I mean, I, I don't see any reason that like, you know, large commercial builders and we have a lot of them just, just like you guys.
You know, can, can adopt this and have a much better experience with software that's, you know, just a little bit more modern, little, little easier to use, you know, hopefully, uh, you know, helps them kind of win more jobs and they, they don't have to feel like they're having to, you know, fit a round peg in a square hole. Yeah. And it does, it does depend on you as your builder.
So what I was talking about a second ago is there may be a scenario where you're filling out the 703 for your client, cause you're the builder, that's all they're requiring, but you also may be a GC where. You're working with like a lender and they're requiring 703s from every one of your vendors. So, there can be layers to it. I think as long as you guys, I mean, you have all these little things you can turn off and on. You know, you have, you have taxes, you have your O& P you can change.
You know, maybe you integrate the retainage system that way and then you just, maybe you end up having an integration. For the contracts, like where somebody can simply, you know, click a, they can provide a link to the AIA from their own account or something when they release the estimate to their, the proposal document to their client. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think you're right. You, there, everything you need is in your budget tab already. You just have to enter it into the 703.
So I think you're already giving people a huge advantage, you know.
Awesome. Well, like, hey, I'm curious, kind of, just as we wrap up here, like, do you have any advice that you would give to others, you know, just, regardless what type of builder they are, you know, what their role is, like, you know, is there anything that, like, you wish You would have known, you know, earlier on, you know, years ago when you started, when you first kind of worked on implementing processes, systems, hiring, like different jobs, like any sort of just general advice
that, that might be helpful to others who are, you know, along their journey, you know, striving to, to reach the point that, that J and T has gotten to. That's a great question. Uh, keep it brief for you. I think. I think that I would go back in time and if I was going to tell myself, I would say, don't be afraid of trying softwares or systems that you feel like you're not ready for, or you feel like you could never figure out, or you feel like your team could never figure out.
All, all that is just, it's, it's, it's not real. You can figure it out and it will improve your business. If, if you're somebody who's still paper notes, Excel, you can improve your business. Um, and it's worth it to try, even if you feel like you can't get it, you feel like you're not tech savvy enough, there are solutions and, and with job trade, you have support, you have somebody that's going to help you.
I think I would go back in time and tell myself or tell anybody getting started now is get integrated with software and those systems as quickly as you can. And in 2025, that matters more than ever. You have to get yourself up to speed because I promise you that your competitors are, so you need to. It's awesome. Appreciate that, uh, that advice thing. It's very sound advice. You know, hopefully, you know, everyone's been able to take away a handful of nuggets from this.
You know, I really appreciate you, you coming on, you know, sharing your exper Uh, we're going to talk a little bit more about how you guys have, have been able to go from, you know, residential builder and to, you know, the commercial, the multifamily multi state, you know, very, uh, very impressive, you know, what, what, what you all have been able to build over there, David.
So thank you for, for coming on and for sharing this and you know, all the, all the continued feedback, uh, how we can make job tread even better tool for you and your team. We look forward to, uh, continuing to collaborate and work with you on that. Yes, sir. Thanks, Eric. I appreciate it. Alright, have a good one. See ya. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Builder Stories. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and gained valuable insights that can help you in your journey along the way.
Don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave us a review. And as always, if you or someone you know has a story to share, please contact us at builderstories. com. We'd love to hear from you. I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember, every builder has a unique story. Keep building yours.