Welcome to the podcast where we take a deep dive into the stories behind construction business leaders. We will share how they got started, how they found success and the lessons learned along the way. I'm your host, Eric Fortenberry. Welcome to Builder Stories. Welcome back everybody. Today, I'm really excited. I have a very special guest. I have been trying to get this person on the podcast for probably like two years now. Uh, really excited though.
We've got John Lee, who is the owner of Deck South. They are located in Marietta, Georgia, you know, doing outdoor living, building decks. He has built a phenomenal company. He is very well known in the decking industry. You know, is definitely an influencer, thought leader, visionary. Someone who I've looked up to for many years. You know, really excited to have you, uh, come, come on today, John. It's a long time coming, but welcome to Builder Stories. Eric, man, it's my honor.
Uh, it really is. And I'm sorry, it's, it's taken so long for me to get on here. Um, I really appreciate the invite and I'm excited to be here. Awesome, man. Yeah, no worries at all. I know, uh, you know, can, can, can be busy and scheduling, but you know, why don't you, uh, kick us off with, uh, just. Give us a little bit of background. I mean, how, how did you get into, to construction, to building decks, you know, what, what led you to start deck south in the first place? And when was that?
Yeah, man. Great question. Um, so, you know, I think it goes back, uh, I have to put a little context behind it, I think, um, to show how I made the decisions I did. Um, when I look back on it, I was very fortunate to grow up on a, on a farm in East Tennessee. And um, so I think in doing that, I kind of understood what, what hard work meant at an early age. Um, not even understanding that that wasn't what everyone went through.
In middle school, my father got transferred to Atlanta, Georgia, um, and, uh, it was a little bit of a culture shock for me because, uh, on the farm, I had one neighbor that was my aunt and uncle, my cousins. Um, we moved into a neighborhood, uh, in, uh, in a suburb of Atlanta, Georgia called, uh, Roswell, Georgia. Um, when I was 12, my father said to me, hey, you need to get a job, you need to make some money. And, uh, I was like, okay.
Um, but I was never, um, it wasn't like, Hey, let me go find something to work. I just, I said, what do you suggest? He goes, well, um, there's a lot of, there's a lot of yards in this neighborhood. Why don't you cut grass? You can. You can use the lawnmower and we'd come again from a, from a farm. So the tractor, the Maggie Ferguson tractor got, you know, left there. And my father bought a Toro push mower. And so, uh, I was able to use that, uh, to start my first business at 12.
And so I went to, um. Uh, when, uh, Kinko's did some flyers, put them in mailboxes and, um, I would cut during, during the week. I didn't have a whole lot of friends right away cause I was kind of getting settled in. And so, um, had baseball practice, had wrestling practice, but worked around those. And at the end of a Sunday, I'd sit here and look at my, you know, in my hand and I'd have somewhere between 400 and 420 in cash in my hand. Uh, from cutting grass.
And, um, uh, so I knew early on, uh, I think the value of a dollar and what it meant to go and exchange labor for a dollar, my time for, for money. And, and it just, I didn't know any different. Right. And so, um, probably that kind of set me into, into motion early on without even knowing it.
And I really appreciate my father for, for finding the space to actually, uh, you know, You know, encourage me to do that and then be willing to, uh, I remember the time he had a, he had a company car and we would throw that would fold the tour over, throw it in the back of his, uh, black Pontiac Bonneville, put the weed eater in there and he'd take me down the street and, and I'd have this yard and that yard to cut and he'd say, how long are you going to be?
And I'd say, I come back and get me in three hours. And, you know, if he wasn't back in three hours, well, guess what? I sat there and watched the birds. You know, I didn't look at my phone. There was no, you know, whole different time. Right. So anyway, um, Yeah. As I came through high school, I was never like this A student. Um, my parents put me in testing, I think my junior year in high school. And they came back and said, Hey, he's probably going to work with his hands.
He's probably, and I was always handy like on the, on the farm and outside of Chattanooga. Uh, I worked a lot with my grandfather cause he, he worked the farm, uh, with us and he was a carpenter by trade. And so I grew up either following him around the farm or back at his place, I'd follow him around his, his, his workshop, his cabinet shop. So I always had kind of affinity for, for working with my hands and doing stuff that way, carpentry.
Uh, loved the smell of wood going into his cabinet shop, and that was always just, it's still to the day to, to this day, gives me chills, you know, when I walk into a cabinet shop and it smells like that. So, um, uh, went off to college, you know, um, got outta school, uh, with the degree that, you know, I, I didn't really know what I was gonna do. It, it, the biggest thing I took from that is I, I walked away with a piece of paper. Um. Uh, so I actually was able to accomplish that.
But, um, it was not really focused in on any, any certain, um, career path. And so right out of college, I realized, uh, the best thing for me was, was, was to continue working with my hands. Uh, so I worked for a builder. doing his punch out, building him little decks, stoops, uh, doing pre wire for, for low voltage alarms and things like that.
And then through a series of events, uh, I got an interview with a gentleman that was opening up a deck company in Atlanta, Georgia, and the headquarters was, was out of New York. And so I helped him open up Atlanta. Um, it was either 39, 000 or 40, 000 salary.
I can't remember, but I got a laptop, a 500 truck allowance, and I think it was 39, 800 was my, so I thought I'd hit the, hit the jackpot, you know, um, working for, uh, and so at the time young, uh, everybody around me that I was hiring, that I was working with as older, um, uh, uh, Didn't really know what I didn't know. Um, and I'm thankful for that time.
Uh, that company when they started going out, when it was obvious that they were going out of business, um, And they owed me about 32, 000 in reimbursement on a credit card. That's when I had a conversation with my father and he was, what are you going to do? And I said, I don't know. I don't know. I got bills to pay. I love doing what I'm doing. And that was really the, the birth of the idea of Deck South.
Um, so as you know, I, I bolted from that company six months later, they were out of business. Um, and, and, and I'd like to say Deck South started with like some burning bush, like whoa, like this, you know, massive, you know, uh, but it was simply crap, man, I got bills to pay. Uh, you know, I, I, I got, I got, uh, apartment rent. I got truck payment. I got this, I got that.
Um, so, um, what I appreciated about that first job was the reality that, wow, you can actually make money building decks. Um, and so that opened my eyes to an industry that I didn't even know existed. Um, so I'm very thankful for that, but that was, that was the birth of, of, of deck south and that, um, we, we incorporated in August of 1998. And that's, uh, that's an incredible story, John. I, I didn't, I didn't realize that you had actually started your first business at the age of 12.
I mean, I, I knew you grew up in a, you know, similar, uh, you know, environment like I did. I mean, my, my dad, serial entrepreneur, business owner, you know, convinced me, Hey, you got to go get a job. I got a job at the age of 14, which, you know, I thought was awesome. But now hearing you started your own business at the age of 12, like, man, you know, that's, uh, that's even more incredible. Well, let, let's be honest about it. It's hard to call it a business.
Uh, you know, it was, uh, it was, Hey, I, uh, I have, uh, uh, have a lawnmower and we'll cut your grass. Um, and I, and I need some payment for it. But, uh, but yeah, no, um, yeah. So I think we all learned at an early age what, what that's about, whether it's a lemonade stand or a grass cutting business.
Right. Absolutely, I think it's, it's such a great, you know, experience for, for all of our children, you know, to, to also hopefully follow suit one day to, to learn, you know, hard work, you know, you can earn money, you can, you know, then buy the things that you want, like we can't just, you know, have handouts and be given things like you gotta earn it.
And, and I think that that, you know, that's, that's something that I, I fear is, is missing a lot and, and, and some of the younger generations growing up now is, is, is the value of hard work and, you know, putting in the time and the effort. And, you know, I just, I love your upbringing and your story there. I think it really means, means a lot. Eric, you know, I, I appreciate that, man. I'll share this with you. Um, I was talking to my wife this morning about being on your podcast and.
You know, we were talking about, uh, cutting grass at 12 and starting that and, and, and we were actually talking about her journey too. And, and I think this is for us as parents, parenting our kids. And we got four, um, you know, she, she started, she, her first job was at 13 and it was not because her parents told her she needed one, but it was because she didn't come from money. And so she wanted to be able to buy clothes that, um, maybe some other kids wouldn't make fun of at school.
And so she, she, she needed to go do that. And so that was her motivation. Uh, and, and I think when you get certain things instilled, instilled in you as a child, they don't go away. And, um, you know, no matter how old we are somewhere inside us is that, is that little kid still. Right. And as parents, I think the best thing we can do is try to provide for our kids in a way in which it was better than, than where we came from, but that's a slippery slope. Cause at the same time.
Necessity is a strong force, right? And when you have to, when you have to do a certain thing, you have to work hard to do whatever it is you need to do. It sure does teach a good work ethic. And so, um, I know, I know as a dad, you probably deal with that as well. Making sure we're teaching the right things to our kids, right? Yeah, absolutely. You know, it's a funny side story here. My, my son actually, uh, yesterday he, he brought me a card that he made for me.
And, uh, on the front, it was, you know, from Carter Fortenberry to Eric, I love job tread and my dad. And then on the inside, it's like, I love job tread, especially because of you. I love you. And then he drew like the, uh, the, the job tread logo somehow. I don't even know how he like actually got it really good. I, our art director, maybe, uh, maybe impressed with it. Uh, you know, and, and, uh, it was just like, it just meant so much to me.
And he said, dad, like, I just love seeing, you know, how you've created this company and how hard you work. And, you know, I'm always worried that like, I'm, I'm, I'm working too hard and I'm not devoting enough time and I'm not there for him.
And, you know, it's just my own, like, I, I want to be the best at, you know, at, at, at being there and being that father, but I It also warmed my heart to know that he sees that I'm putting in the effort and I'm working hard and that I'm building something and it's like so meaningful to the point where like he sees my passion and love and like now he's loving it too and that's just like, that's so cool, you know, as a father to see that, you know, it really warms my heart.
Bro, I, I mean, hey, that needs to be, that needs to be in a glass case on your wall, right? That needs, and, and, and kudos to you and your wife for creating that environment at home where job trade is, is spoken, it is, it comes off the tongue as a positive. It's not a, oh, dad's at work again. Oh, dad's a, you know, it's not a negative. It's obviously a positive or else he wouldn't say that. So good job on you. No, I appreciate that.
So, I'm curious, you know, when, when you first started, you know, Deck South, uh, you know, back in, in 1998, I mean, like, were there, were there challenges that, that you faced that, like, you just didn't expect or didn't, didn't realize would, would be so hard? Like, what did you find to be the most difficult thing Of, of, of starting this business. Yeah. Good question. But you know, my father quizzed me early on and said, Hey, what do you think, uh, is going to be your biggest challenge?
This is early on in business first six months or so. And I was like, Oh, it's probably going to be finding the, finding the clients. He goes, I don't think so. I think you'll find those. It's going to be, it's going to be managing people like what no, I'm, I get along with everybody. I'm fine. I'm no idea what he was talking about. Right. Um, that's been the biggest challenge, right?
Certainly finding the right, uh, people, uh, um, to, to have the right seat on the bus, not to be cliche ish, but that, that certainly is it early on. Um, you know, we floundered for a little bit for the first year and a half, two years, whatever. Um, you know, I would, uh, I had a fireman that worked with me. So he's two on three often.
When we worked together, we were pretty productive when I was swinging the hammer by myself, it was a little less productive, but at night, I'd stick my head under a hose bib and put a deck south shirt on and go ring doorbells and around where we're working and try to try to drum up sales. But um, when I hired my first true employee, Marcelino Rincon, um, year, end of year number two.
Uh, that's when, when I was able to pull away a little bit more and try to go sell more and create more of a buzz to, to, to hire us. Um, and, uh, Marcelino is actually still with us, but, uh, I, I think that, that, that no doubt about it, a challenge that I really didn't know that I would have, um, cause I was too, too young, too dumb, whatever, uh, to understand that, um, you know, managing, uh, partnering up, leading, being on a team with.
Other human beings that that have life going on in their in their world as well. Um, it would be the biggest challenge. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And you know, I think it's uh, it definitely takes A lot of time and experience to, to really understand and appreciate how important every single person is and making sure that you bring in the right people, you know, it's, it's not about just putting warm bodies and seats.
It's about, you know, building a team of people that you trust and you want to spend your time with, and you know, will represent your brand and your company and do right by your clients. I mean, like, I think that's like some of the secret sauce of every great, successful business. Is it's the team that you put together is, is, is what will make or break you? A hundred percent, man. You know it. I mean, and, and that's it.
Like we've all heard the term, um, you know, an intrapreneur, which is inside an entrepreneur's business. And, you know, Inc magazine says there's, it's either three or 4 percent of the, of the United States population, uh, is entrepreneurs that, uh, have a successful business and they define it as over five years. So when you look at that as a very, that's a pretty small percentage.
I've said it before, is it, is it because, uh, you know, in some, at some, at some level, you know, you're, you're, my naivety was what allowed me to start a business. Like I was just like, Hey, uh, failure is not an option, throttle down, let's go. There was no other option.
And, um, but when you do that and you're the head janitor and you're the first at the party, the ones that you have to find are the ones that want to build a business inside your business and be, be entrepreneurs right inside the business. Because at the end of the day, uh, the business job trade is, is not Eric Fortenberry. It's the team that you've built along with you. It's not deck south is not John Lee. It's, it's every bit as much as every individual in the company, as much as it is me.
Uh, we, you and I just happened to be the first at the party, right? We're like, Hey, here's a party, let's go. Right. We just happened to be the first one. We brought the keg. Right. And then, then we're looking for who's going to tap it. And you know, who's taking the money at the door and, you know, we got them, whatever, you know, so, um, have you always, uh, or kind of what's.
You know, what, what are your thoughts on, you know, hiring full time employees versus, you know, leveraging subcontractors? Uh, I know there's a lot of debate, you know, there's, there's pros and cons to both, but you know, how do, how do you, how do you manage your, your team? Yeah. Uh, we have a mixture of both, right? We're, we're 60 percent sub 40%, uh, W 2 in the field. Now everybody in the office is W 2, but I think it.
I think it, I think it, it's, it's individually based, you know, uh, as parents, we love our kids the same, but we can't parent them the same, you know, the way my daughter processes information and deals with discipline is completely different than the way my son does. If I treated them the same, I'd be failing one of them at some level, right? I've got to adjust with them both. And so I think, I think that plays into being a good, uh, uh, team player in business, right?
Like, I mean, there's some, there, there are, I, I think there's. There's plenty of businesses out there that run truly sub, and that's great. Uh, there, there's a, um, I think there's a, um, a luxury of that because you've got a fixed cost and, and, and you've got the built in ability for if you've got the right sub, they're running their business inside your business. You're building that umbrella big enough where everyone underneath it can realize their dreams.
And I think that's what our job is at, at, at some level. Um, But I don't think it's, you know, there are, there are those that, uh, would rather be a W2 and they are not the kind of individuals that burn clocks. They're the kind of individuals that they see everything as if it's their business. So if there's any inefficiency going on, they raise their hand and go, Hey, there's some inefficiency over here. We gotta, we gotta do something else.
You know, um, that W2 employee because they buy in and they realize, and they, they, they are, are part of. Uh, moving, moving the flag forward, you know, wearing the flag, moving the brand forward, doing it in an efficient way. There's others that are subs that are like, Hey, um, uh, you know, they wouldn't be the kind to put them on a clock because that's just not going to incentivize them.
They need, they need more, uh, you know, to be incentivized a little different and running their own business inside yours, uh, makes the most sense. I think in the trades, right, it, it, it, it boils down to a few things. Um, I mean, you look at the roofing industry, it would be impossible for roofing companies to have nothing but W 2s when you have a workers comp, uh, percentage at 72%. So for every dollar they give their W 2 employee, they got to pay out 72 pennies to, to workers.
I mean, they've got to have sub crews that do the work so that there can be layered scenarios and coverage that makes sense to run a business because so much, you know, this, but so much about, um, the red tape, um, Uh, is not geared towards small business, right?
And so it's very challenging, especially in the, in the early stages, um, you know, to, to be, to come out of the gate profitable when, uh, when, when, when you're, when you're having to look at, um, you know, things like workers comp, general liability, how you're going to run your team. Are they, are they truly a W2? Are they truly a sub? And so anyway, long story, but, uh, for your, for long answer to your short question, but I, we run both. And I don't think there's a right answer.
I don't think there's a blanket right answer. I mean, some run all W 2, some run all 1099, combination of both, just whatever works for you. You know, it sounds like too, I mean, just like most people, you know, early on you were, you were selling the jobs, building the decks, doing all the work, wearing all the hats.
I mean, when did you, when did you realize that, that you needed to build that team and bring that first person on to, you know, to essentially replace part of your responsibility so that you could focus on, it sounds like you went and sort of started focusing on, on sales more, like how did you sort of. Make that leap.
Yeah, it wasn't until I still remember it wasn't until 2007 there was kind of this moment that that for me personally it was kind of a whatever a monumental moment that we we had a Gentleman in Little Rock, Arkansas reach out to us and ask if we could travel to Little Rock to build a project At the time we were doing a ton of epay decks Our watertight system was different than others and He had found us in a, in a publication and, and, and so we decided we were going to travel
out to Little Rock, Arkansas and build this for the, for the, for the gentlemen. Um, I had to come back. Uh, we, we sent everything out there on a flatbed LTO. We, we, you know, we, we went out there in trucks and trailers. You stayed at one of those, uh, hotels that had, you know, a kitchenette and all that. I had to, I had to jump back on a plane and come back a day early.
And, uh, I had my, uh, tool bag with me, um, and, uh, I was at the airport and they were like, Hey, you're going to have to check that. And the plane was boarding and I had this monumental, like, moment with myself. I went over, I found this, uh, trash can that was going out to the part of the tarmac, it was a little bigger trash can. And I literally had this moment, like, okay, I put my hammer inside, uh, my, my, my carry on to see if I could get that in.
You know, my speed square, my belt, everything. I just dropped it right in, in the trash can and I said, if I'm going to be beneficial to this company, I got to leave that there. Because my, my best foot forward for the company was not swinging the hammer. Uh, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a pretty good carpenter actually. Uh, but I got some amazing carpenters that I've hired over the years that work circles around me and, and love doing it.
And so let me go, let me go try to drum up business while you do what you're really good at. And I'm. Pretty good over here. So it was like a mixture of like, do I, do I, do I go hybrid half and half? Do I, and, and, and so it was a real, it was a, it was a moment for me to just kind of have that, uh, realization that if I was going to serve my team best, I need to stay out of the field. Now, up until that point, I'd been back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Right. Um, yeah.
But I'd never really committed one way or the other. And that was, that was, uh, that was kind of it for me and realizing that I needed to make that change. I think, I think it happens different for everyone, you know, I mean, there's some guys in this industry that are just phenomenal carpenters that will pro that are business owners that will probably choose to, at some level state in the field. You know, because that's their strong suit, that's their skill set.
Right. And, and I applaud them for that. I think we all just got to figure out our lane, right? I don't think there's any right answer. Uh, as much as I tried to find a book at Barnes and Noble's on how to run a deck company, the only thing I could find was business plan for dummies that helped me write a business plan. There was no other book to, to, to find that was like, here's how to build a custom deck business, right? We're all, we're all writing the book, so to speak, as we go along.
Yeah, 100%. I mean, I, I feel like a lot of people start to feel this pressure that they need to, you know, do more on the business and they need to, you know, it just naturally they have to sort of go be the, the CEO that's your typical, like, I'm the business guy, but like, that's not the case.
Like, I think the most important thing you can do is figure out what are you passionate about, what is going to get you up out of bed every single day where you're going to be able to just do your absolute best and everything else. You know, you need to find people who can compliment your skill set and who can join your team.
And, you know, it's not just about, you know, one person, it's about the whole and making sure that you put the right people in the right seats who can do excellent work at every single function of the business that needs to be done. And, you know, look, if you're the, if you're the guy who's going to crush it in the field, and I know a lot of people who they're the owner, but they are still in the field building the tools, but they're, they're not relying on.
Also being the salesperson and the project manager and doing the bookkeeping doing the marketing like they have put other people in place Where they find you know They found companies to partner with who they can you know rely on them to make sure that those functions still get done And hey, man However, you do it as at the end of the day as long as somebody is doing it and you're doing it great You know, more power to you. Figure out how to live your life and do what you love. 100 percent man.
You, uh, you, that was, that was some, uh, you dropped some bombs there. That, that's all that is absolutely true. And I think that's one of the beautiful things about the trades is that there is no set. You've all, you can only do it this way or else you're going to fail. Really? Because I, I can show you companies that do it this way, this way, this way, this way, and this way, and they're all profitable, and they're all doing some really amazing things.
They've just decided to do it a little bit different. And so I think the beautiful thing about the trades is, is that, that there is a sense of, um, customization. Manipulation, if you will, that, that you can do to your business to make it fit your skillset and how you want to function. And I think that's a beautiful part of the trades. Absolutely. So, so tell us what, what's your, what's your team look like today? I mean, kind of what, what, who do you have and what roles and.
Yeah, so we run EOS, right? We, we run entrepreneur operating, uh, system. Uh, we run it through, uh, our, our, our implementer. Our coach is Chris and Amy Breen. They're, they're part of legacy Academy. Uh, and it's, and they. They, they bring the EOS template to, to our industry. Um, we started EOS before, uh, we joined up with them, uh, COVID hit. We, we, we, we had to do it virtually, so we canceled it and, but it's set for a while.
Um, part of our success is, I believe, uh, today based on the fact that we're running a template that's tried and true. Anybody that does any research on EOS and what Legacy Academy is running and other companies out there running is, uh. You know, it's a, it's a well oiled, uh, uh, template to run your business, uh, right? Um, those, those guys did a good job creating that years ago. So for us, uh, We had a state of the company meeting early 2024.
And as I looked around the room, I think there were 52, 54 of us, uh, in that room. Now, that's not, um, as I said earlier, that's not all W 2. That's a combination of W 2, 1099. Um, you know, my electrician that's been with us 16 years, you know, he's a 1099. He works for us and works for another, um, remodeler, basement remodeler. Um, you know, we've got, uh, Right now we've got four full time carpentry crews. Um, we're about to add a fifth.
Um, we've got two paint crews, we've got an electrical crew, we've got two plumbing crews, um, we've got two mason crews. Um, and so we, you know, we kind of cover all the trades because our builds are different than they used to be. You know, our name doesn't really say exactly what we do, but we've kept the name because it's got equity in the market and that's what we've been told by.
Some companies that we've asked, you know, hey, can you do some research and figure out if we should change our name? And then they came back and said no, I'd stick with it. And and I was happy to hear that So the way the way I talk about us with our clients is hey look in in Atlanta 88 percent of the homes are basement home.
So you're gonna have a deck out of your kitchen door because you're 10 feet off the ground So everything everything the deck is is the hub it all starts with the deck and from there We, we, we go out, you know, we could tear down to a kitchen, to a patio, to a pool, to wall work, step over to a porch, you know, it's all based on coming out of that door on the deck.
And so by, by providing a full blown backyard, you know, um, as I sat in the room, um, and, and looked out amongst the group, you know, um, we've got Rigo, our pool crew, I've got, you know, so we've got one pool crew that digs, steals and plums. You know, our plumbers do all of our plumbing on our, on our pool. So, um, masons do all the coping and tile work and everything like that. And then we sub out our, our shotcrete and our plaster.
But, um, so, so our today, what our company looks like is it's a team of, of what I call artisans and professionals that we can look at a client. I can look at a client and in the eye and say, look, we're not perfect, but there will be no one that works harder than us to give you exactly what we've designed you here. And when we're done, it's going to look just like this. Um, And so, uh, so that's, that's who we are.
We're, we're a team of, of, of professionals that span over several trades to build backyards. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, I, you know, again, I, I, I've been very impressed by, by the quality of the work, by what you all are able to accomplish, you know, for your clients. And, you know, it's clear that you've built a phenomenal team. Uh, you know, I, and, and, and I have a whole lot of respect for, for Chris and Amy Breen.
You know, they have, have, have an incredible thing going with, with Legacy Academy, like what they have done. And how they're now giving back and helping others be able to implement. You know, these, these systems and learn these lessons. I mean, like, I think that's an important lesson in and of itself is that like, you know, you don't have to go at it alone.
I see so many, you know, business owners and entrepreneurs and leaders out there who they're just, they're struggling because they don't know what they don't know. They don't understand why, you know, they're, they're selling more, they're doing more, they're working harder, but they're not making any more money.
And it's like, that's where, you know, you can invest in yourself and invest in your, your team by, you know, joining up with others and by, you know, finding a coach, finding a group who has a system who can, you know, you can learn from like, you know, there, there's so many ways that like people can, can, can learn and improve what they're doing, you know, without just like continuing to do the same thing over and over and not seeing any changes. Like you got to do something different.
And, you know, I mean, it's, it's the whole point of this podcast is, you know, I want to, you know, find people that will share what they're doing and how they've had that success. And, you know, it's, it's clearly working really well for you. And, you know, I think you, you know, you, you clearly have built a great team and have implemented a, a system that is, you know, now makes, you know, everything look like you got a well oiled machine. Well, a perception's a, a beep, right?
Like, uh, you know, as they say, um, you know, I won't say the word here, but, uh, I appreciate that. You said a lot there, and I'd like to touch on a few of them. Um, I think what's interesting about our industry is as, as tradesmen and women, um, There's something, and I've said this before, and I don't want to offend anyone, but there's something a little bit, we got to screw loose anyway to get into the trades and run our own business.
Um, if, if, if three, four or 5 percent is the number of entrepreneurs that own small businesses in, in the country, only a very small. percentage of those is in the trades and and then when you go into the trades, we're not talking about commercial where you manage the job, we're talking about residential trades where you manage the client first, the job second.
So now you're dealing with personalities that's tough and you got to be able to to be able to handle that in order to get to the finish line. So I think inherently as, as tradesmen and women that, that, you know, we, uh, you know, we may be a good technician of whatever we're doing. And now we're like, Oh, we're going to start our own business, but that doesn't mean we're, we're good business people, right. Just because we can build a good deck or, or, or whatever.
Um, and so, but we're also the type of individual that probably doesn't ask for help a lot. Because that's inherently in our character nature to go, uh, and blindly into, uh, into a business and go throttle down, let's go, you know, where, you know, I say my team laughs at me because we did a Colby assessment and our, our coach said, John, you're, you're the kind of individual that you jump off a building first and pack your. Parachute as you're going down, like, Oh, what do we got to do?
Let's go. Right. And, you know, and, and, and so I think some of that lends itself towards trailblazing in, in, in certain areas. Uh, but you got to have a team around you that can be real methodical and, and, and help with the step one. And I'm like, step one, Hey, let's skip to step four. It's like, Whoa, we got to go one, two, three first. So I think, I think as, as, as, uh, trades people, we have a tendency to. Uh, have a tough time stopping and asking for help. Let me, let me share a story.
And so that's why I applaud Chris and Amy. Right. So, uh, what they're doing, I think at first, uh, I think at first some people think is disingenuous because like, they're not really trying to help, you know, this is a trait, like how that's not something that's not. Well, it is. And in my experience, it's, it's, it's been a great experience. So when we first joined, I had a few people go, Hey man, at the, at that time, we'd been at it 24 years. It's like, you've been in this 24 years.
Do you really need that? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, we all need that. It would 24 years or 2. 4 years. Like you need accountability. You need a, I call it a shin kick. Right. And actually call it something different, but kick me in the shins and remind me. Of what, you know, please write like, and that's, that's what Chris does a real good job with and Amy does as well. But I'll tell you a quick story. Um, 2005 we started NADRA, 2004 we started NADRA, North American Deck and Rail Association.
I was, uh, uh, thankful enough, blessed enough to be a part of that, that origination of how it started. And I remember we had our first meeting in Atlanta a few years later, and we had it at the deck South office. And, um, we, we, we reached out to everyone in the market that built decks. And there were companies that for the first time ever, I'd been in business.
Uh, nine years at the time there, for the first time ever, I was meeting some of my competition at this meeting and Eric, I wish I had, uh, a tape recorder, a video recorder of that, of that meeting, uh, it'd be a big one, the one that you stick on your shoulder, you know, back then, but it'd be a recorder either way, but I wish that thing was in the corner because man, it was like dog sniffing tails, all these, we cleared out our warehouse and we had the nondesign and we had pizza
and, you know, Cokes and everything. It And it was just a bunch of contractors like just standing there looking at each other, not even like not, not even knowing how to engage because it just, it was so funny back then. It was like, Oh, we can't talk to each other. We're going to trade secrets are going to be, you know, trade secrets, secrets, right? Like are really like there's C in today's world that doesn't even exist. Right.
So it's just interesting how we've evolved and all, all for the positive. Um, But by sharing that story, my point there is, I think as trades men and women, we have a difficult time stopping and going, you know what? I could, I could use some advice. I could use some help. I could use some, whatever, whatever. And thankfully coaching in today's world is something that's, uh, a commonality across the board and everything.
And so I think people are more open to it, but, uh, I, um, my heart goes out there for those guys and girls that are struggling right now. And it looks like they're not, but they are because we've all been there. I mean, dude, there's, um, yeah, we've all been there and, and I kind of get emotional about it because I know that, uh, I know that there's been times in, in, in, in my business.
Um, Maybe I shouldn't admit this, but like, I can remember times when I literally rang a doorbell and, uh, I'm like, I gotta get this contract. I don't know where we're going next week. Um, I know it's a referral. I know we built Bob down the street. I really hope they really like us and we, we can get this thing done. Cause I don't know, it's Thursday and I don't know where we're going Monday. I don't know. I don't know.
Like, um, Are my guys, you know, if we don't keep, you know, our guys busy, they're going to find something else, right? Uh, Marcelo Rincon told me, um, it was probably a year into employment. He had several Fridays off because I just didn't have enough business for five days. And, uh, he came to me and he said, sir, I really need five days, um, work. I think that was the last Friday he missed, you know, um, 24 years. I mean, it was like, you know, Hey, we got to cut grass. We're cutting grass.
Hey, we've got to move this from here to here, whatever it is to, to keep our guys busy, our guys and girls busy so that they can take a paycheck home. And for so many years, so many years, and I'm again, hate to admit it, but it's the truth. Um, I didn't get paid, but they did. Right. They always got paid before me. Um, because I felt I had the faith and the belief that it would turn around and it would get better. And you just do the next right thing. You just keep going.
Um, the, the plan's the same, right? It doesn't change because someone says, no, I don't want to have you build a deck. You just keep going. Right. And then eventually you look up and you go, oh, well, okay, now we got it. Uh, six weeks of work lined up and oh, wow, now I got six months in and then you take a little deep breath and then I was talking to, uh, uh, Jack over at deck tech yesterday.
He's been in the business 26 years, 28 years, longer than me, and they're in the middle of snow and some clients are saying no. And, you know, we're laughing because 26 years, 28 years or. Two years, you still get nervous in the winter time when people don't say yes, but that's the nature of our business, right? We work outside and so it goes up and down. It's the roller coaster.
Um, and so the one thing I've learned over the years, and I've said this before, is that we build the business on, on the valleys, not the peaks on that roller coaster. Um, and, and the, the 0809 210 recession taught me that. Um, we were blowing going, you know, we had two locations, had our own lumber yard, important e pay through the Savannah port. Um, you know. I think a container every two weeks, we were running through a truck of pressure treated every five, six days.
I mean, we were, we were gone. We had like 12 crews, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And all of a sudden, it's like, Whoa, what just happened? Like it wasn't like a slow drip. It was like faucet turns off, no water coming out of hose bed. And so that taught me, you know, Hey, as we build this thing back, as we, as we settle into where we need to be long term. Just be mindful that we're not building this thing on the peaks. We, uh, we got to build it on the valleys.
Yeah, that's, that's great advice. And, you know, I, I, I'm a big proponent of making sure people are, you know, building an annual budget and they're planning for that and they understand the cyclicality, you know, of the industry and the type of work that they're doing. I mean, you know, do, do you have, you know, any advice for, for others out there who, who may not have sort of figured out, how do you.
You know, how do you plan and prepare, you know, for those months, for those times when, look, it's going to be slower, it may dry up, like, how do you, how do you keep the business open, how do you keep the guys, you know, with food on the table, like, what? Yeah, I, I think, so, couple things, I mean, the first thing I would suggest, uh, is, you get a book by Michael Stone called, uh, Markup and Margin. Understand the difference between the two. Because in the beginning, I didn't, right?
I'd take a product and mark it up 1. 4. We're making 40 percent margin. No, you're not ding dong. Understand the difference between market markup and margin, right? So, so understand that, right? Um, read that book and find out where your overhead is, right? Because, you know, people go, Hey, what do you charge for this? Who cares? Like what, what you charge doesn't matter.
It doesn't mean anything to me because I don't know what your, um, Your, your, your overhead is, and you don't know what mine is. And our, our burden is, it could be the same. It could be different. So know, know where that is. Um, and, and, and work on a budget. You know, the budget side of things is, is, is challenging at first. You're like, I don't know. I don't know. Well, uh, do what we call around here in SFD, a shitty first draft. Right.
Um, and, uh, and that came from brain, but like, uh, you know, that's a, that's a, it's a term that we use often, like just get started, just start on something. Right? Activity is, is everything. Action is everything. Don't stay stagnant. That's where death, you know, we're either growing or dying every day as, as individuals and businesses. And that doesn't only mean growth is, uh, is, is, is, uh, rev as revenue or, or, or our sales. It could be just improving your processes.
So, um, I'd get real, real serious about understanding the difference between markup and margin, understanding where your overhead is, understanding where your number needs to be because, um, you know, heavy, heavy sales can hide. Heavy sin, right? Like you can, you can be blowing and going and all of a sudden things slow up in a couple of years and you look around and go, crap, we didn't even make any money the last, we were just.
We were just going, but stuff was coming in and we didn't have, you know, we weren't even looking at PNLs, you know, what's a PNL? I said that to a guy one time, he was like, what's a PNL? I'm like, bro, you've been running your business for five years. You don't know a PNL? Like, come on. Now, the problem with the PNL I've always said is that's running your business through the rear view mirror. You can't course correct with a PNL. It's done, right?
You either learn you made money or didn't make money, but you can't make a change. So you got to drive that budget. And. Shameless plug here, but it's the truth. That's why I love with the budget function of job tread, right? Like, um, that's, that's what I love about running job tread in our businesses, focusing on the budget. And what did we build out the project to look like? So that we can, we can set our markers and understand, are we hitting those as we go through the, through the build?
So, yeah, I, I, it's a, we, we could talk for hours about that, right? But I think, I think the real simple answer to anyone that's out there that's wondering, do they know their numbers? If you're wondering if you know your numbers, you don't know them.
And there's plenty of, of, of people that will take you under their wing, whether it's a paid coaching gig, whether it's somebody that you could simply take to dinner on a regular basis or buy a cup of coffee on a regular basis and just kind of pick their brain. Um, it's on you though, just like it was to start your business. It's on you to figure out your business. No one's going to do it for you. No one's going to come to save you, right? It's going to be you and you alone to figure it out.
So lean into it, be okay with it and figure it out. And then things will, um, things will make a lot of sense. Yeah, I could not agree more. I mean, I think the number one Biggest issue that I see is that people don't understand their business. They don't understand the numbers. They, they don't know what they're actually making and what their overhead is, what they need to cover. And I'd also say like, you gotta understand cash flow.
You know, so many people think that just 'cause they got, you know, some money in the bank that that's, that's their money to go spend or, or, or pay themselves or do whatever. And it's like, no, that's. That's not the case. Like, you need to understand, you know, the money coming in, you know, may need to go right back out the next day. Understand your liabilities and who you need to pay and where that cash is going.
Like, don't just think because one day you collected a big check that, you know, you're sitting pretty and you're going to be able to weather the storm. Like, you know, prepare for that. Understand cash flow. And, you know, I think it's, it's, it's just a huge lesson that so many people unfortunately get, you know, just, just get caught in it and, you know, it can sink your business. It can. And, and I think, you know, I mean, this.
This might sound trivial, but I think building a reserve account is very important, right? You know, whether it's a half a percent, one percent, two percent, whatever of every payment, every check that comes in, just, just put it over here because believe me, you're going to need it one day, you know, you're going to need it and, and it's going to be great that it's there, but don't pull from it until it's absolutely like, you know, life and death, you got to pull from it.
Um, and, and, you know, and that's, uh, that, that's something that's helped over the years is, is having that there when all of a sudden we don't. You know, we don't have, uh, anything coming in for a period of time we can, we can pull from it. Uh, not to get too hippy dippy here, but, uh, I, uh, I, uh, I subscribe to the theory that things, things in life, um, uh, they're all energetic and they flow.
And so if, if you're going to sit back and not pay this bill and be stingy about that and you know, Oh, I got to hold onto this and all that. Uh, things are going to stagnate, uh, in terms of, of, of actually revenue coming in your door. I think that we were conduits of, I believe the man upstairs, you know, blessed us enough to put us in places that we are and, and it's our job to be, um, as, as disciplined as we can to, to honor, honor that position. And so.
When things, when, when things come and go in the business, they're supposed to come and go. When money comes in and then all of a sudden it's in a reserve account and all of a sudden you've got to spend it. Guess what? It's in the reserve account. So you can pay that bill, not late, but on time and you keep flowing. And guess what? When that goes down, you're going to build it back up and it's, it's going to come and go, right? It's, it's like the ocean. It comes and it goes.
And, and, and, and, and eventually it. You know, the idea is that it stays in motion. It stays there more than it goes out the door. But, but it's got to have that energy flow in order for that to, to, to, to be in the right hand out the left hand or else it bottlenecks and all of a sudden nothing comes and nothing goes and you find yourself stagnant. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
I mean, you know, you also touched on just Again, like the importance of surrounding yourself, you know, with the right people, with this notion of community. And, and I think that that's like one of the most impressive things that I've seen about just the decking industry in particular is I think there is no other industry that has a stronger.
Community that has been built around it where you see direct competitors like in the same area You know sitting there working hand in hand helping each other learn helping each other improve their businesses like this this notion of it's my competition I can't talk to him like that awkward moment you talked about at the founding of Naja like You need to have this, you know, this, this, this abundance mentality. Like there is enough work and enough opportunity for everyone out there.
And if we can raise the quality of, of the industry as a whole, if we can help other contractors understand their numbers and be successful and quit, just, you know, low ball in every single deal when. You know, you think you're doing yourself a service and you think you're, you're helping your client get a better deal.
Like, but you're actually not, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're cutting corners and you're leading to, you know, a crap your product that's not going to last like it should. And, and you're taking away money from your own family and your own team. Like that doesn't help anybody that only hurts all of us. And it hurts the, the end consumer. Like we have to work together.
And I think that's like one of the most, you know, like the, the, the coolest things about what you all have created with Nadra. With the whole Deccan industry. I mean, you, you, you go above and beyond helping so many people around you. And I've seen it, you know, I see it every day with what you're doing and how you coach others and help them. Like we need more of that.
And so, you know, I, I encourage everyone out there to go find your, your local groups and go join up and like meet people, help people share, work together. And that's how we elevate and we can all win and do better, you know, overall than, than just, you don't have to be out there fighting just for yourself. Like there's this greater thing around us. That I think really helps to, to, to deliver a great product and experience for the customer. Amen, brother.
Amen. Dude, I'm, you're absolutely right. You know, collaboration at the top, competition at the bottom, right? Um, you know, the abundance mentality is what I subscribe to, not the scarcity mentality.
Uh, we talk about that around here, like it's literally a worldview on how you look at things and it, and it trans, it transfers your life, whether it's business or personal life, you know, um, in the trades, you know, when we look at the number of homes that are out there and we work on homes, we've got to all understand that there's plenty of business for all of us. I mean, the, the, the statistics are staggering just in the deck world.
There's 33 million decks that come up for renewal every single year in the United States. And what they, the, the metric on coming up for renewal is that it hits its 25th year. That doesn't mean that people are going to replace them, but every, every, every year that number is, is re upping. And so, um, there's plenty of business for all of us, right? And, and, you know, I'll, I'll, I'm going to give a shout out to a gentleman by the name of Bobby Parks.
He was, um, he was a big source of, I looked up at, to him, he was, He was actually in my, my, my bit, my really shitty business plan that I wrote from business plan, uh, from dummies, but he was in there as, as, as somebody that, um, you know, I, I wanted to model our company after. And at the time he was running a, a national franchise here in Atlanta prior to starting his business. But, um, he, he was, he was, uh, um.
He was instrumental, even maybe in times he didn't know it, uh, that he helped me out. And, and, and there's, there's, there's not a day that goes by that I could say that I would ever be able to repay him. But let me share one story with you. I was on a, I was on a sales call standing in the backyard and we were talking about what they wanted and they kept referring to, you know, at our other house, we had this, this, this, and finally I said, Hey, where'd you guys move from? And it was local.
And I said, Oh, really? Who, who built your deck? And, um, and, and they said the company that Bob used to work for. And I said, uh, and then they mentioned, um, uh, we worked with a guy by the name of Bobby Parks. And I said, she goes, yeah, but can't get in touch with, I've called the. Well, that company had gone out of business. I knew he'd started his own company. I said, I said, Oh, he started his own company. Let me give you his number. And so I gave them his number.
And I said, look, you need to call Bob because there's, that's, that's who you need to hire. Right. And I didn't think anything about it at the time. It's just the right thing to do that. That's who they needed. They already worked with him. He's phenomenal. Here's his number. You're missing his number because the company used to work for, they went out of business and moved out of the city. So you probably have an old blah, blah, blah. Um, yeah.
And I talked about that some years later and he brought it up and, uh, he would have done the exact same with me. And there was no question. It wasn't like, Oh, I've got to act like I don't know, like what? That's not even, and I will tell you that, um, I don't say that story for any accolades at all. I say it because if, if that was a positive thing, which I think it was, I've been paid back 10 times in spades, uh, in my life. Um, by others, including Bobby, right?
And so, um, it simply is just doing the right thing. You're, you're right. Like there's, we gotta, we gotta like chill. We gotta, we gotta step back a little bit and stop racing to the bottom. Stop trying to undercut. I mean, every time we, as contractors ring the doorbell and we introduce ourselves, we're, we're having to pay for the sins of, of shitty contractors that have, that have screwed up in the past.
And, and, and I hope one day that, that, that flips on its head because there's just so much quality going on out there. And I think we're moving in that direction, um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's sad to see, uh, some still, uh, look at it that way and teach their own, but I don't know about you, but I see a movement where there is a whole lot more collaboration. Absolutely. I couldn't agree more.
You know, I, I'm curious, so when you think about You know, building this, this team that you've built and, and, and as you continue to grow it, how do you make sure that you find the right people? You know, what, what is your, you know, what does your recruiting process look like, you know, how, how do you, how do you just make sure that, that they're going to embody, you know, the values and, and, and, and be a great representation of, of the company and, and, and what it believes.
Yeah. So great question. I mean, there are onboarding things that we do. We do Colby assessment, right? That allows us to really understand, uh, the individual, uh, early on. Um, I'll still a quote from Seth Godin. Uh, I can't work with you until I work with you. And, um, and that's, that, that's something I read. He said years ago, and it's so true.
So we try to set up a one day work environment where we pay the individual, but we get to see how they work inside our business, um, uh, prior to hiring them. Yeah. Um, you know, I, I, I'd like to think we've got a phenomenal onboarding, uh, um, process, but it's, it's got holes in it left and right, right? Like we just do the best we can. We have a series of interviews, right? Um, where multiple people in the company interview, uh, that individual.
Um, there are small little tests that we, we, we do early on. Um, you know, some things as simple as, you know, we put out an ad. You know, for, for a new employee and the request is send an email and in the subject line say this, and it could be hire me, uh, but it's hire me with capital, uh, letters with two exclamation points. So when somebody just sends hire me, lowercase h, lowercase i r e m e and that's it.
Okay, they're probably not a detailed individual because we, we specifically asked send hire me. All caps to exclamation point. So there's little things, you know, that we, we can try to do early on. Um, you know, ask, ask certain questions. We, we try to hire based on our. You know, our, um, our core values, right? Um, you know, one of them is lifelong learner, right?
Like we, we want to be surrounded by, you know, in our Tuesday morning leadership means, um, I laugh because I'm finally a part of a book club after all these years in my life. We, we, we read these books and each, each week we share, you know, our, our thoughts about the chapter that we just covered. And, uh, and so, you know, if, if you don't want to improve yourself.
You're going to work yourself out of a business around here because you're, you're going to be surrounded with people that are constantly trying to better themselves to be the best version of themselves. They can be, whether it's as a dad, a mom, a brother, sister, teammate, whatever, a father, um, um, husband, wife, coach, whatever, whatever, uh, or business owner or carpenter or designer or salesperson. So I think, I think for us, it.
It's just getting simple about making sure that, uh, we hire based on our core values and we go through that process. I, I am the worst at hiring. I've actually got some teammates that are like, you cannot hire because I, over the years I've hired like, Oh man, I met some great dude. Cause I see the positive in them. I, I, um, I, I think that's maybe, um, could be a skill set, but also can be a real negative where I see a situation and I flip it to the positive side.
So I'll meet somebody and we'll talk and we'll go through an interview and I'm like, Yeah, but man, we can, man, we could really help that person. They could be And they come in and it's like two weeks later and I'm like, Dang it, I should have known. And so I've done that too many times. Um, and so I'm not allowed to hire, uh, by myself. So there's, there's a process that we try to follow. Yeah. I love that. And I mean, that sounds actually very similar to, to our process.
And what we found works well is, I mean, you, you know, you, you got to take your time and make sure that, you know, you're, you're giving them, you know, exercises, testing them. You know, it, it's easy for me to, like, I feel like I can, I can feel people's energy and I can read the room and I just, you know, my, my gut kind of just is like, oh man, this person's great.
But, you know, thankfully we have a process that doesn't let me just bring anyone that I feel great about on immediately, like we make them go through, you know, whether it's a, you know, someone on our sales team or customer success team or development team, like everybody has, you know, these, these exercises where, you know, you can test them, you know, I love that, you know, you say you hire them or pay them for a day to come work hand in hand and like you get that opportunity.
Thanks to see what it's like working with this person, like, are we gonna gel? Are they gonna be a good foot for the team? Like, you know, it's easy for someone to come in and, you know, just do an hour interview and, you know, who knows what they put on a resume and they can say a bunch of things, but like, you know, you got to be able to like, know, like, does, does what they're saying match their abilities and their skills and the actions and who they really are?
And so the more time that you can spend getting to know those people, you know, at the end of the day, you got to make sure you hire the right people. You know, one wrong hire can cost you so much time and money, you know, it can be a demotivator, you know, to everyone else. Like you can't let that happen. And so like, you know, I think you guys clearly have a very well, you know, vetted process here that, that, that will help you make, make sure you're bringing the right people on.
But yeah, I agree. And I think so. And I appreciate you saying that. I think the other thing that I want to point out here is, um, you know, there's nothing new under the sun. Right. You're welcome. I'm a firm believer in that there, there's no, there's no company, no individual that is reinventing a wheel. It's already all been said, done and vented. We just need to make sure that we're stealing like an artist. That's actually a book my wife gave me years ago.
Uh, I can't remember the author's name. Anyway, it's called steal like an artist. And it talks about the fact that when an artist looks at a painting, Um, he can walk away from there and want to create that exact same painting, but it's going to be his take on that painting. Right. But he's been inspired by that and he's going to steal aspects of the brushstroke and the other steel, I guess you could say. But, um, but that's a well known thing in the world of painting, I guess.
And, and I think as business owners, if we're not doing that same thing, we're crazy because success does leave clues. Like that, that quote that I just said about Seth Godin about, uh, I don't work with you until I work with you. I think I actually read that through a Dan Martell book, right? Um. Uh, and, and, uh, and so, um, and, and the Dan Martell book Breen gave me, right?
So it's like, you know, you can follow it back and, and, and, uh, I think the thing is, is we just got to be receptive to things that have worked for others and see if they work in our, in our business. Because again, if I wouldn't have read that quote and heard that, I don't know that we would actually implement that in, in our business because I wouldn't even have thought about it, but it's like genius. I don't work with you until I work with you. Yeah. Let's do that. Right.
Oh man, if we hired the wrong person, it's like cancer, and it's, it's hard to cut that out later on. The further it goes, the harder it is to actually remove that individual and, uh, take care of the collateral damage that happened, uh, during that period of time. 100%. So once, once you found the right person, you bring them onto the team, you get them onboarded, like, what do you all do from, you know, from a culture standpoint?
You know, what How do you, how do you continually, you know, build the team and, and, and motivate everyone to want to, to keep working for you? And I mean, you know, some of these people have been with you for a long, long time. How do you, how do you keep them there and keep them, you know, happy and motivated? Yeah. Um, I think only recently in the last few years, I actually could put my finger on it.
I don't know that I would have been able to answer a lot of those questions or any of those questions, uh, years ago. Uh, we don't have a whole lot of turnover.
Maybe we're doing something right and if I, if I run it back and try to look at it, I think, I think one of the things, uh, for me has been the guys, the guys in the field, um, I'd walk through a wall for them, uh, and, um, you know, when, if they, if any of them call me from the field, it doesn't go to voicemail, I drop what I'm doing and I go talk to them because they're calling To either make money or save money one or the other there's something going on in the
field that need you know The clients this the clients that the inspectors here, obviously project manager can't be You know George is not available. So they're calling me There's a reason for it. Right. And so, um, so I think having a level of respect, treating them as good as you would treat yourself and anyone else, putting them first. Um, uh, you know, I don't know if that's leading from the front leading from the back. I don't know. They say leaders should eat first.
I don't know about all that. I do know that everyone gets paid before I do. And it's always been that way. And thankfully we're not in that situation that we I've been in before, but it's, I think it's treating people just the way you want to be treated. Uh, I think it's sharing the vision, uh, often. Uh, I'm definitely the visionary of the company. And so, um, there were days that I would hold back my thoughts about how I feel. Cause I, I would think, oh, it's too much.
I don't hold back anymore. Um, you know, from whether it's, you know, turn, grab my phone and hitting loom and doing a video and sending it out amongst the, the, the office chat group or, or, or the job chat group. That's just got the crews that are on that job or that job or that job. It's sharing. Um, what's on my mind as soon as it's on my mind and I recognize it as something that needs to be shared. Uh, because you can't read minds, right?
Um, I can't read my wife's as much as she thinks I can, and I sure wish I could, but, um, we can't read minds, right? And so, uh, for me, if I'm going to be the one that, that, uh, is, is, again, the, the first one at the party that, that's, that's carrying the flag, that's saying, hey, let's, you know, let's move in this direction. I've got to share that vision, right?
And so with a, with a new, a teammate, uh, that comes on board, uh, they get to see, you know, early with our, with our, our core meetings. Uh, that there are, it's not just about Deck South, it's. Gosh, probably more the meeting is about, is about the person more than it is the business, right? And, um, and, and I've never been a big stickler for, you know, rules and regulations and it's got to be a certain way or there are, you know, and so if, um, you know, family's first, right?
And if, if somebody's sick, then guess what? That person better be, you know, that parent better be taking care of their kid and, and Dexal's going to be okay. We're not going to fall apart. Like you come back when you're healthy and things are healthy and everybody's good. Right. And so. So I don't know, I don't know that there's anything, uh, novel or, or, or big idea there.
I think it's just, I think it's just keeping the main thing, the main thing and taking care of your team and treating them as good as you would want to be treated and, and, and letting the rest of it fall where it may. Yeah, that's great. And, you know, it kind of, kind of leads me into, to, to one of the questions I wanted to ask you as well.
I, I, I don't know if you know this or not, but I mean, you know, I've, I have seen and I have watched you and your business for many years, even before you joined us at Job Tread, I don't know, I think it was like 2022, but like the, you know, as, as, as, as amazing as your work has been, as awesome as your team has been, you know, I, I, I'm continuously impressed.
But the thing that, you know, I, I think I have learned the most from you and taken the most away is seeing how you're there for your family and your kids, you know, I, I see. The time that you spend at, at, at your kids ballgames and being there and showing up for them every single time that, that they need you. And, and, and I'm just like, how do you, how do you manage and, and, and prioritize your family? And how does the work life balance?
What does it mean to you and how do you, how do you do it all? You know, because I, you know, as I started earlier, I feel like I struggled to, you know, I, I work so much and I, and I'm like, I'm always striving. I think, what would John do in this moment? And you know, like I, I pushed a meeting up earlier to, so that I could take off today to go to my son's karate lesson. Cause he's going to be getting a stripe and he's going to be sparring.
And he told me, he's like, dad, I would love for you to see this and be there. I'm like, okay, I got to do whatever I got to do to make that happen. And, and I just, I always think about you, John. And I've seen that, and it's just like, that's made the biggest impact on me, and I'm just curious, like, how, how do you do it? Wow. Dude, I, I, that's been maybe the biggest compliment I can remember getting in a long time.
Uh, if I'm doing anything right as a parent, and somebody's paying attention to that, then Uh, thank you for that. Um, I, I don't, I don't, um, I became a father, um, later in life. Uh, uh, I was, uh, 38 before I, uh, became a father. Um, and, uh, I think some of that helped in prioritizing what a father look needed to look like for me. I had a great father, have a great father, and there was a role model there, but like all of us, we want to do, you know, we want to do our own thing, right?
And be the best versions of ourselves. I know that for me, what success is, is what you just mentioned. You've built a business that you can go see your son spar in karate, and he looks over and sees dad. Because we don't get those times back. You know, um, when my son was born, I had a friend tell me, Hey man, the days will seem long, but the years will be short. And I'm like, that's the dumbest shit I've ever heard, but it's absolutely true. You know, it is so true.
Um, and so I want to make sure that I don't, there was a lot of things that I missed early in my twenties, uh, and in my early thirties as we, as I was building the business and I don't want to, I don't want to miss any of that anymore. So, um, I've, I personally, I've had to choose to prioritize, uh, sleep. Prioritize getting out of the door early in order to get my, um, my personal goals achieved that I need to, I need to do to get my head right.
Um, so that I can, I can be the best version of me that I can be for my kids and then hopefully for my team. Um, and so, yeah, that's, that's, that's, uh, I don't know that I have a, I don't know that I have a really good answer for that, Eric. I, I, again, I appreciate you saying it, but I, um, the way I prioritize my family is. If I am not there for any of them and any of their activities, uh, then, then I failed them, period. And, and, um, that's not going to be allowed in my life personally.
So I've got to figure out what that means. Does that mean, um, the days that they don't have anything, I'm putting in 15 hours instead of 12. Whatever that means for the individual, it just is what it is. Does that, um, right? So I think it's, uh, I think it's being present. You know, um, shit, man. 80 percent of being a parent is just showing up. Right? Like we think, Oh, we got to have, we got to have our stuff together. No, we don't. We just need to be there. Right?
We need to be there because that's what they need. They need us there. Um, and, um, and being a role model, right? The best we can be. I think when I realized, wow, I've got another human being that depends on me for their, their, uh, their life, whether they live or die, their survival of life. Things got real clear, right? I don't know. I probably said some really dumb things to some of my friends in my twenties and thirties when I wasn't a parent and they were.
I need to ask a few of my buddies, you know, some of the dumb things that I said, because you just don't know until you're a parent and you, you're holding your son or daughter and you're like, yeah, it's just a, so, um, I think we all go through some of that at some, at some stage in our life and, and for me, uh, um, I'm very grateful, uh, that, um, that there's a family around me and, and I can hopefully benefit them in a positive way. So I just, I just try to stay focused on that.
Yeah, well that's, uh, you know, it's interesting, I, my wife and I were just talking about this yesterday and, uh, you know, you actually, uh, reiterated I think all of the points that, that she has also said is, you know, I need to prioritize my sleep, I need to be getting up early, I mean, I, I definitely, you know, I, I don't know, I, I stay up way too late, you know, and, and I just, Yeah, I stay up too late. Sometimes, you know, really late, you know, I lose a lot of sleep.
I don't sleep as much as I know I should, you know, so I'd say, you know, I'm taking those lessons away and being present.
I mean, it's, it's something that, you know, we talked about how I need to make sure when I walk in the door every day, I've wrapped up whatever conversation or whatever I'm doing on my phone, and I need to put the phone away, put it, you know, in the other room on the charger, and I need to make sure that I'm a hundred percent present and that's, That's what I've committed to do, you know, with, with, with her, with my kids, you know, and I want to make sure that that time is,
is, is really, you know, valuable time. And, and, you know, and she said she's going to help make sure that, you know, when I come in, you know, we're going to get the kids, make sure they're off the TV or iPads or whatever they may do. We're going to really try to have more focused, intentional, you know, family time, you know, around the dinner table. You know, it's just, um. You're right. I mean, you know what life is flying by. I mean, my daughter is seven. My son is six.
I can't even believe it. I feel like it happened overnight, but your definition of success Is, is, is exactly what, you know, I, I, I think is so important. It's, you know, the, the, the fact that you build a business, you built a team and, and you are able to, to take the time that you need to go be there and to show up for your kids, show up for your family. I mean, that, that truly is, there, there's nothing more valuable, more important, you know.
Then, then having that and having that opportunity and so that's, those are the things I'm taking away from this, John. I appreciate you, you're reiterate, reiterating all that and sharing that. I mean, it's, it's, it's great lessons because you really have, you, you've made an impact on me.
You've motivated me, inspired me to try to be half the dad that, that I see that you are, you know, coaching your, your, your, your son's teams and being there and showing up like it's, it's incredible what you do, man. And, and yeah, I appreciate it. I'll tell you this. I used to be, uh, and, and naturally a night, night out. Um, the way that I changed that in my life was I, uh, I, I forced myself to get out the door, not just stay in the house, but get out the door early.
And you do that enough, your body shuts down at night, right? I, I, I, and I flipped the script. I am not naturally a morning person, but I forced myself to be, uh, because it just. It has to happen. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. Um, I'll tell you a quick story. I, I, um, and I wanted to make sure that this never happened again. When my son, uh, was probably four, um, uh, he was standing, he, he, I got him a little Dexow shirt on. I got him a Dexow.
He had, he had it on and he was looking all cool. He had a collar and a little Dexow and he was walking around the den and, uh, and my wife said, look. And he had his hand up and he was, and Shane's one of our team members, and he was like, Hey Shane, go ahead. You know, Shane, go ahead. Yes, sir, Shane. Uh huh, Shane, and he was mimicking me because he had seen me on the phone so much Talking to one of my teammates and and my heart broke someone say all that's so cute to me.
It wasn't It was cute, but the bigger thing was his memory of me at that moment was on the phone. And there's no way I can be present to my son when I'm on the phone, right? And so, so being present, um, you just said something, intention. I think intention, intentionality, intention's everything. You know, um, what, what's our intention like that? That's where, that's where the beauty, that's where beauty lies. I think in life is what is our intention.
We can be successful or, or fail and all, but was our intention good? Was our heart in the right place? What is our intention? Because that's what truly will win the day. You show up with intention over and over again. Whatever that intention is, it works its way out. It rises to the top. Everything else filters away. There might be some cruxes here and there that you fail at, but the intention is everything. So I applaud you guys to be intentional.
Good, good, good on you for, for, you know, put the, put this down, put that down. Let's come together at the table. Let's, let's be intentional about our time. Um, I don't think his dads will ever regret that. Man, well, John, I, I really appreciate you coming on and, you know, sharing all of this with us. I mean, it's, it's, it's been a really awesome conversation. I know I've learned a lot. You know, I hope everyone out there has, has been able to take away a couple nuggets from this as well.
Uh, just again, means a lot. I know you've taken, taken time out of your busy day to make this happen and I really appreciate it. Yeah, man. Honored. Thank you very much. It's great to be here. Look forward to seeing you. All right, we'll see you soon, John. All right, bud. See ya. Thanks for joining us for this episode of Builder Stories. We hope you enjoyed the conversation and gained valuable insights that can help you in your journey along the way.
Don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave us a review. And as always, if you or someone you know has a story to share, please contact us at builderstories. com. We'd love to hear from you. I'm Eric Fortenberry, and remember, every builder has a unique story. Keep building yours.