From Hands-On to High-Level | | Wilbur Jennings of Wilbur Design + Construct

Welcome to Builder Stories, Wilbur. Oh, thank

And I was doing stuff at such a young age and making so many mistakes early on, and I just had the opportunity then that it just kind of grew into a passion over the years. And, um, I moved away from it a little bit, but then jumped back in. But yeah, I started at a really young age, the passion for building and. And so that's, that's kind of where I ended up now, but uh, that's

In Texas, and then we ended up moving to North Dakota and then moving to Marquette, and we finally started a business with the end goal of being a commercial construction company. Well, when we got here, it was, it was really tough. Uh, the commercial market was, was, was, uh, there wasn't a lot of demand. There was. It was, it was over flooded with, with contractors. The margins were really low.

And I'm like, well man, if we're gonna get into this, I better figure out something to do in between jobs because I'm not gonna have a job and we're gonna go broke here. So I'm like, I'll just get a builder's license, no problem. I had a degree in construction management, you know, um, I'll just go take the test and get a builder's license and start doing some remodeling. 'cause I had all this background, so I went.

I go to try to take the Builders to Builders exam, and they're like, well, you need to take 60 hours of training. You need to get this certificate before you can take the exam. And it's like, I have a four year construction management degree that doesn't qualify me. They're just like, not with your program. It's like, huh? So a quick tangent. We actually went back to Northern Michigan University and had a conversation with the professors.

And now their program, when they graduate, they can walk right into the, that office and take that test. And they don't have to do any additional training, but

And, uh, to think about where we are today is like incredible, like the, the, the amount that we've grown. But, uh, that's where it started. We started as like. The intention of just filling in work and then the demand just kind of grew and we're like, okay, well this is more profitable than what we were anticipating con commercial to be, and there's a huge demand for it. So we just stayed in the residential lane and then we just kind of built one thing after another off of that.

And so we've, here, we find ourselves in this niche now and don't have any desire to get into commercials construction. So, yeah. Nice. And and how many, how many years ago was that? That was 10 years. We, we were celebrating 10 years, uh, this year, January 1st, we celebrated 10 years.

And we're just like, we're doing it anyways. 'cause we want the freedom and the flexibility and we come in and, and you know, that first job was like a, a basement remodel. And then I think my second job was like, you know, like a deck or something. And I just, it was just a bunch of these little jobs I. That first year we made $25,000. Wow. I was like, success, you know, we made money. We didn't lose money. So, uh, and, and, and, and that was it.

So it, it was a huge pay cut, but it was like this, like this, this weight like lifted off You like, I can do this,

And so we completely underbid it. We just went off what the insurance said they would pay, and we like, barely broke even. And I'm like, okay, well not gonna stay in business doing that. But we learned a lot. Right. And it seemed like these, these catalyst projects through the years. Are like that, right? You, you don't maybe know exactly how to approach 'em.

You're, you're kind of taking a chance on things and maybe you don't make a bunch of money, but you get all this experience and that lets you, you know, kind of sets paves the way it sets that foundation for the growth in that new category that you're find yourself in.

Um, but my wife keeps me plenty busy with home projects, so I, I get, you know, I get in the field there. But, uh, early projects, it was me and then I, I hired a friend, you know, and then my next hire was my cousin and, you know, and then I didn't really know how to like, um, I didn't have, I didn't have like a process for interviewing or a process for trying to find new. People for our team, and I didn't really even know how to be a, like a good leader or a boss at that time.

You know, I was just kind of like flying by the seat of my pants. I didn't have any really like mentors or anything. I was just kind of, kind of in my own mind just kind of paving my own path and looking back now, I'm just like, if I knew now or if I knew then what I know now, I would've approached it completely different.

But when I. Um, and when I actually joined the, uh, 20 club, um, that's when it really kind of turned around. And that was just only like a few years ago. And so we had made some profits up until then, but really diving into the numbers and dissecting the financial part of it really helped. And, uh, and we had been using. Project management software before that. Um, but at that time we also had made the switch to job tread too.

And because of that feature of, you know, being able to break down the financials a lot better, and so that was it, like, just like the education on it. Like people are just like, yeah, you, you know, you, your company's supposed to make money too. It's like, oh, um, yeah, I, I guess so. They're like, if you wanna like turn around and sell your company someday, you need to make your company profitable. You just can't have a. You know, it making you money.

It like needs to be its own entity in a sense. Right? And so, so that's when we really started focusing on like margins and, um, job costing. And job costing wasn't even a thing for us. For the first five years of a business we didn't like, I didn't even know what it was. And now it's like every single project we job costs and we have a, we have a project debrief on with our whole team that was, that was involved in the project.

So right from the beginning stages of estimating or even that consultation, that whole project experience, you know, for our clients. And then for the, the way we assemble the project, it's, it's very process driven Now. Everything we do has a process, be behind it and, uh, you know, not, not to try to plug, plug job, try again, but like we've built our processes in that system so we don't even have to think about it.

We're taking the, essentially taking the thinking out of the, of the day-to-day operations and putting it into checklists and to-dos and, and, and, and schedules. And so we can just, literally, our project manager can walk out to a project and say, okay, well this, this trade is complete. And now we've got, uh, you know, the drywall and painting evaluation. It's a 20 point checklist.

And he literally just goes through, through there like, like, you know, an oil change and just check, check, check, check, check. And ever since we implemented processes. Our margins go up. Job costing got easier, our projects get shorter, smoother client client happiness is through the roof. Um, in the last year and a half, we haven't had a project go over budget or over time. Not one. You know, that's awesome. Unless it was homeowner driven, like, you know, we, we get a lot of that.

Like we had one product, literally the homeowner was like, I'd like to make a change order and do a whole nother bathroom addition or a whole nother bathroom renovation. So $60,000 addition to their original scope mid-project, and we were able to complete that with just an additional two weeks of time. 'cause we weaved it right into the schedule. So, but we wouldn't be able to do that without processes in place.

It sounds like really, you know, joining those, the, the NAHB 20 club, I mean, was that kind of like your first real sort of, when you surrounded yourself by, you know, a bunch of other builders who were, you know, probably farther along, maybe they had some of these systems processes, like they, you know, was that kind of like that, that, that turning point where you, you really got exposed to, hey, maybe there's a better way that, you know, I need to start learning from them.

And then, um, with our 20 club, we know a lot of times we're bringing family to the, you know, the, we have two in-person meetings per year, and they're usually, you know, at a, at a host city site. Um, but we do monthly zoom meetings and we talk about everything business.

And so, and then, you know, and then we've got like a text thread, so where if anything pops up day-to-day stuff, it's like literally like I can have an answer like from 10 guys on any kind of issue that I'm going through right now and Right. And that kind of, that kind of quick access to that knowledge is invaluable. And, uh, but yeah, there's a, there's a process. You, um, you apply to get in and then you go through the interviewing process and then, you know, then you're accepted into a club.

And, um, of course, you know, there's dues that are involved and there's a, there's definitely a financial obligation that comes with it because, um, you know, there's, there's a lot of value that comes out of it. So if you're not willing to put the financial, um, you know, the financial, uh. Uh, investment. Investment into it. Yeah. Then, then, then, then really it's not a, a good place. Right.

So, uh, but yeah, so I've, I've got a lot of experience from them, but when I first joined, I almost felt like, am I, am I qualified? Right? I was like, do I have enough experience to bring the table? And, you know, just the stories that I was able to tell. And then, you know, some of the, some of the things that the, some of the. Um, some of the problems that we worked through, those were helpful to other people too. And so that was nice to hear and get feedback from them.

Um, but as far as like getting control of the finances, that was a, that was a big thing. 'cause they're like, well, first thing was like you had to like, open up your books. Like, here we go. You get to see everything. And there's like, why are you doing that and why are you doing that? And why aren't you making money here? It is like, and why is your profit margin so low? And why is your, you know, and so they'll like, they'll like, call you out, right?

So it's accountability and they keep you in check. And so, um, and then they also help you put systems into place, you know, and, and the, the 20 club that I'm in where there's 15 members, the 20 club means that you can have PUP two 20 members in that club. And right now, I actually think there's.

Um, there might be, uh, they might be trying to start another remodeling 20 club, because I think there's only five of 'em in the country, which means there's about seven between 75 and we'll say 125 people that are in these remodeling 20 clubs. And then there's a bunch of builder 20 clubs as well. Uh, but we're a part of a remodeling 20 club. Awesome, because everybody in our club does remodeling and some of them do design and remodeling.

Some of 'em actually dabble in commercial a little bit, and some of them do spec homes and. Some, you know, some custom home building. Some of 'em are just des a designer that do remodeling. Uh, so we have a good group of guys, but we all kind of have, um, a similar revenue and we all have similar interests and we're in non-competing markets so we can share everything.

Um, and it's nice to see, you know, what guys out on the east coast too versus, you know, the west coast and um, and down in Texas, you know, and so, you know, um. Uh, where, where, where are you? You're down in Texas Summer, right? Are you guys in Austin?

Yeah. And we're all kind of focused on, on that, but it's, but it's also nice to see the different demographics, um, you know, the different demands in the market, how things are fluctuating and, uh, but yeah, for the most part we're all going through the same problems. I.

But, um, but yeah, doing WIP reports and I like to keep my head in the numbers right and just kind of know that we're, that we're okay there and that we're, we're tar, we're tracking and we're staying on budgets, right. So it's another thing. Budgets never had a budget until like four years ago. Right. And didn't even know the concept really. I'm just like, okay. Um, so. Making sure that we're staying on budget and then, you know, um, really having the company vision.

You know, what I've found over the last few years is that when you're trying to onboard and build this team of A players, you need to have a company vision. You have to have, Hey, this is the direction we're going and this is how we're gonna get here, and this is what the organization's gonna look like. And then that instills confidence in your team to say, Hey, you know what, this.

Where we're going somewhere and I can jump on board this and I can have a long-term investment of my career in this company. And so that's really important. So, um, earlier on we, you know, this is, this is probably five years ago. We sat down, we created a mission statement. We created our commitments to our clients and to our team, and we spent a whole day working together. And that was fantastic. It brought us closer together as a team. And so to this day, we continually.

You know, use those commitments in our mission to, um, help us with the direction of the company. And so, um, I focus on that a lot. Like, okay, where's our growth gonna be? Like, what is our, you know, is our, is our target clients still what it was from last year? You know, do we, what do we want our average job sizes to be? Where do we want to go for that? Like, and then being able to just, um, help people work through stress management because.

Uh, you know, project management and estimating, and those are demanding jobs. And when we, when we pile a whole workload onto people, that can be really overwhelming. Um, you know, so, uh, you know, I, I like having flow charts, you know, the Kanban charts, those are really nice. 'cause they, you know, they, they, they say immediately where there's a bottleneck. Yep. And you can kind of work through that. And so.

That's been really my main focus is, is making sure that our systems and processes are working and then we're adapting and, uh, and we're growing. So, you know, like, like right now, my main focus was, uh, changing the way our process was from like our initial consultation and then it went to design and then it went into estimating, and then we went to, so we had these different areas that we went through and we found that.

We were spending a lot of time in building preliminary budgets for people to view before they went into a design contract. And it's like, well, sometimes we'd have 20 hours into these things and we wouldn't, we wouldn't, we wouldn't get the job. And so we reformatted that. I created a scope development agreement, and now what we do is we, we've bundled a little portion of the design.

A portion of the scheduling and a portion of the estimate and captured it into one more clear picture and said, Hey, this is what you can have if you sign the scope development agreement, put down a retainer fee. And it's like we have a like a $1,500 minimum fee on that. And that applies towards the work that goes into that. And so now after our initial con consultation, we get paid for everything after that.

And people are a lot more likely to jump into something like that because they're not committing to a full design and they're not committing to construction either. And so as soon as we did that, we signed like seven contracts in like seven, like two weeks. And everybody on our team just like, whoa, how are we gonna handle this? I was like, okay, well let's lay this out. And then, so that back to me, that's where my health is.

My job is to really kinda like, like layer this properly so we can manage that, so we can manage that, that, that amount of work. Uh, so yeah,

And so, you know, it was a great move to kind of, Hey, let's, let's get something up front, gets some skin in the game. Make sure you know, if, if, if it goes nowhere, at least we got something here, but. I think, I think it's, uh, you know, really smart of you to, to really be able to look at that and understand the impact on where your people are, are, are spending time and are we kind of progressing this, this, this customer along, you know, to, to hopefully get them into the construction.

Yeah.

Um, and, and I think the industry as a whole, like the construction industry kind of has that like, you know, like that tough guy, that rough guy that, you know, you know, it's an environment of like cuss words and, you know, um, people get chewed out for things. But we've created a, a culture around here where that that's just not acceptable and we don't treat each other that way. And so, and when everybody makes a mistake, it's.

Really comforting knowing that if something happens, it doesn't matter how much of a mistake it is, it could be a $5 mistake or a $5,000 mistake. I know that our team's gonna come to me and say, Hey, here's the mistake. Here's how we fixed it, and here's the solution moving forward that we're gonna, that's gonna help us prevent it from happening again. And when somebody comes to you with that, how can you not be just like. Like grateful. Right. That, wow.

Okay. So you just in my mind, so you just saved us thousands of dollars down the road. That's the only way I can think about it. Rather than like, you just cost me two grand. Right. And that's the, the mentality we've been driving for the last few years and it was a game changer. Now everybody's like, comes to me, they're excited. Yeah, I made this mistake. It was like 2,500 bucks, but, you know, um, this is, this is what I did to fix it and here's how we changed the process.

I'm just like, awesome. That's fantastic. Yeah. No, that's great. It's, thanks. Saving me $15,000 next year, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, so that, that, that was a big change for us too because, um, you know, early on I didn't really know how to approach, um, people that made mistakes. I mean, 'cause I, I grew up in the same atmosphere of atmosphere. It's like you make a mistake and you kinda get your hand slapped and. You know, like that was stupid. Why would you do something like that? Right.

Now I'm not, you know, I'm not okay with let's, you know, can't, can't make the same mistake over and over and over again. I mean, that's right. You know, that ain't gonna work. But as long as you've learned and you understand, you know, what went wrong and how you can prevent that in the future, you know, I'm, I'm totally cool with mistakes too. I mean, you, you just, yeah. You can't, can't beat someone up for, for trying something that didn't work out and.

Or just, or, or making those mistakes. I think that's, that's, that's how you quickly drive them away Yeah. Is if, if they're fearful every day of making that mistake. You know, earlier, uh, you, you mentioned that, you know, you, you didn't have an annual budget for the company. Uh. For the first four years or so, or first six years or however long it was like, yeah. I'm curious, like how, how did you realize that you needed to start creating that?

Plan for the business because I, uh, I actually just yesterday we, we we're working on our, uh, our, our second kind of playbook and we published the, the Business Playbook. And so I just, you know, we, we've started working on this financial playbook and one of the main components of it is this.

Annual template, you know, this annual budget template that, that any company can use to really, you know, forecast their revenue, you know, their gross profit, what all their overhead's gonna be, and ultimately, you know, their net income. And, and, and the goal is to help them to, to better sort of financially manage their business. So I'm, I'm curious, how did you figure out that you needed that and where did you start and how was that? That process evolved for you. Mm-hmm.

You're now using it as, you know, I assume you're using it as a regular tool to financially manage and track your progress.

And, um, and, but what I, but I, what I saw was at a certain point we had, you know, oh, 10 people on our staff, but I wasn't making any more money. Like my salary didn't go up, the company wasn't making more money and so we were growing revenue wise, but it was a flat line on net profit. And I'm just like, well, if this is what's gonna happen, then I'm gonna burn out really quick and that's not sustainable. And so, uh, we essentially said, okay, we need to get super efficient here.

And um, and a number of years ago, we made a pretty drastic shift and we essentially kind of restarted. And, uh, we, we rebranded and we kind of restructured our company culture and our team. And, uh, and then we, then that's when we were like focused on like, um, like not just growing the revenue, but growing the bottom line as well. And because when you grow that bottom line as well, it allows you to incentivize your team better.

It allows you to offer, you know, better benefits and, and a better working environment allows you to stay on top of, with the latest technology, the, the newest equipment. Um, you get to pick the best clients, you get to pick the best projects because you're essentially the best in your industry, in your area. And that, and that was the goal for us. We're just like, okay, hey, we, we wanna be the number one design remodeling firm in the upper peninsula, and how do we get to that point?

So that's what our organizational chart is now is the, the growth for that is, okay, now we're not just gonna be in Marquette, but we're gonna be in these other areas as well and have potentially satellite offices. How do we get to that? Right? You vis you vision plan for that, and then you work backwards and you create your organizational chart. So at this point now, because of the budgeting back to the financing and the revenue growth, we will know when.

And when it's time to hire another project manager, well know when it's time to hire our, um, you know, uh, another designer, right? And so, uh, or when we need to add on more field crew or for a production team, like, it helps you plan that and, and work it into place so you're not just like reactionary to everything. And sometimes that's unavoidable. Sometimes, like right now we are in a little bit of a reactionary state because we just sold seven projects. In a matter of a couple weeks.

So like, okay, like production, we need, we're gonna need more people quickly. Yep. Right. Um, so we're gonna be hiring, you know, some, some production guys, but you know, so sometimes you do have to make the pivot. But for long-term planning, that financial tool is so important, right?

We're in their house every day and, and, and it's not like we're building a new house where we don't have to see 'em and interact with 'em. Like they're living there and we're building an addition on their house, or we're taking over their kitchen space and setting up a little prep kitchen for 'em. Um, so we're interacting with them and their dogs and they're, you know, their, their family. So creating a red flag list for clients early on. Helped us define our, our target as well.

And then we realized also that, okay, so we wanna work with people that are kind, we wanna be work people that, that, um, can make good decisions together. As, as you know, as a couple. Um, we wanna work with people that, um, you know, uh, are, have, have a good idea of what they're doing and, and they've done some research, right? They like, okay, hey, you, you're not just like coming and saying, okay, hey, we wanna do a full home remodel, and we have zero idea where to start, right?

So, um, they're not ready for that. That's a, that's a, that's a whole process in itself is getting mentally ready to go into a renovation. Epic. So we look at, you know, different things like that and that helps us define our client there. But then also for us, um, you know, our niche is that 250 to $600,000 project because we've got the management team in place for it. So we have, um, we have the staff to most efficiently manage those projects.

Now, smaller projects, like, you know, a $30,000 bathroom, they're great, but we find that it's still a touch point for every single person in our team. And so we're still, the management's high on that. And so, uh, it's more efficient for us to do larger products. And then over time, what we've seen is.

That's just kind of naturally weeded out some of the smaller projects too, because somebody that maybe wants a, a really quick bathroom update, they don't wanna wait six or nine months, um, to start the project. Sure. And so, so we've kind of naturally kind of, you know, moved our target client into that a little bit higher earning income. They're typically, uh, families, uh, then with the, with the parents aged from like 45 to 65.

And, um, and, uh, they've got, uh, extra, they've got extra income, expendable income for projects. They've been saving, they've been planning for it. Um, and, uh, and they, and so yeah, it's just kind of a little bit of a natural kind of growth, but also planned, uh, with the, with with the. With the type of client, the character of the client that we wanna work with too, so.

She's like, people are gonna remember that, use that. And then so she kinda like forced me into it. I'm, I'm happy that she did now, uh, 'cause she was right. But, um. But that Wilbur Construction, LLC was we, we kind of set up that way 'cause it was commercial and it sounded more commercial. Well, over the years we found that we started doing a little bit more design year after year after year.

And then now people are asking us for full design and we've, and, and now we're doing, you know, full scale drawings and very detailed drawings and. We found that we can start charging for design a, you know, a few years back and we're just like, okay, well if that's the direction we're going, let's, let's make that part of our business. And so that's when we decided that, okay, hey, we want people to know that we can do design and construction all in one stop.

And so that's when we rebranded it and it's been successful for us so far.

And so what, we need more growth to be able to hit these numbers and moved where we want and service the people that, that, that need it in these other areas. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna get my head wrapped around marketing. And my first approach was, uh, we started Facebook and Instagram ad campaign. And I thought it was a huge success at first because we got tons of leads, but the problem was none of them converted to jobs. And so I was constantly busy feeling productive, but.

I was really just spinning my wheels in one place and not moving anywhere. And so we stopped that and I said, okay. And then we and, and then, and then, and then we hired a marketing director. To help us with brand awareness. And that's all we've done since then is we, we we're not asking people for their work.

We're not, um, doing, uh, you know, um, like ad campaigns, like, oh, you know, uh, we'll do complimentary design if you, you know, sign a kitchen with us or something like that, because we tried that. Right? And once again, lots of leads. Nobody, nobody made it through to construction. And so I said, all I wanna do is help. I. I wanna, we wanna be there for people, so let's educate and let's just create brand awareness. We want everybody to know that we're here and that we can help.

We don't need to sell 'em on anything, but let's just educate. So then we just started this educational process, um, and then we connected with some local, um, with our, uh, the Lake Superior Community Partnership, which is like a local seven, and it helps you just network with people. And so we just went in and said, what can we do to help? Community and we started sponsoring certain things. And so that was really it. That was our big marketing push, just brand awareness and education.

And so, uh, a couple things that I plan on doing. Is we're going to, um, we reach out and we're gonna do seminars, right? I'm gonna go and I'm gonna speak to people and say, Hey, you know, here's, here's, uh, you can pick my brain. Or, you know, maybe here's a topic. Uh, we'll talk about, you know, what you can do to prep your house for the winter, you know, and we'll just have a, a free seminar. You can come and, you know, I'll provide, you know, a lunch or something.

And so, um, I'm gonna try to target some, uh, specifically some different women's groups. 'cause typically it's the women making the decisions in kitchens and bathroom remodeling. So if I. Can target some different women's groups and go and just speak to them and say, Hey, is there anything that I can do, um, any questions that you might have if you are ever considering going into a remodeling project or, or any kinda maintenance on your home or design or anything like that.

Like, I'll just be there to answer questions and help if I can. Not trying to sell 'em just there to educate. So that's gonna be my, my approach from this point forward. I don't plan on doing any, like, ad campaigns or, you know, like, like hook, like campaigns. Like, yeah. So, and that's awesome. I mean, I, you been so far.

Yeah. And. The reality is if, if now is not the right time for them, if they're not ready, if they don't have the budget, if, if they just don't know what they wanna do, like, you know. Trying to force the sale on them, that that's not gonna help the situation. And even if you do get it, 'cause you're some wizard salesman, like, you know, going into a process that is stressful and as expensive as, as, as a large remodel will be. Like, you want them to be ready and prepared and educated mm-hmm.

And make that decision on their own. So, you know, I I, I love the approach of, let's here, we're, we're gonna just show you everything you need to know, give you that, that education, give you the resources, be a tool. And when you're ready, come to us. You know, and I, I think that often ends up track attracting a lot more people, you know, than that, than that pushy salesman.

What is the experience from that point to 18 months or 24 months after the project ends when we're making that final warranty call and follow up, right? So, um, that first whole pre-construction phase, we feel like we can do that from here, from our office. We've got a staff here. We've gotta draft our designers. You know, we're, we're set here. We don't necessarily need to have a whole nother office in these other areas, but maybe it's a satellite office, so maybe we're in.

My idea is, um, you know, purchasing real estate out there. 'cause my wife and I like to invest in real estate. Purchasing an office building in those areas. Uh, and then, and then soon. Um, and then being able to rent out a space, uh, to our business once we move into those areas and just have, it'd be like a, a management like office, like for a project manager and somebody can check in there, um, and then have a, have a couple guys in the field.

And really, that's all, I think all we need to handle the big projects because we put all these systems and processes in place already. We would, you would not be able to do anything like that. You wouldn't be able to scale like that if you were relying on the, the people there to, to do all the quality oversight and in, in, and all the, everything on their own, right?

So that's what we've really been working on, these systems and processes so that we can expand into those areas with, with, with, uh, with a little bit of overhead.

You know, it's, uh, that, that's, that's a good way to sort of diversify as well as, uh, enable expansion. Yeah.

Like 99.9% of construction businesses right my size that are this size? And so. Um, the five to 10 year plan is gonna probably be putting in some sort of, uh, maybe like an ESOP or some sort of, you know, um, transitional plan to, you know, offload the company to the, the, the, the current staff, the, the current team or maybe a couple key players or, um, plan for, uh, you know, um, you know, someone else to buy. I mean, our, we, our kids are at the age right now where, you know.

15 years from now, they might consider doing it. My son, he's just like, yeah, I'm gonna just take over your business dad. But he changes his mind, you know, every other day. So, but uh, so it's, that's funny. That's kind of the five-year campaign is just to get ready for that transition outta the business, because I don't want, I wanna create. A business that's gonna last, um, as the, as the new team is developing as well. Right.

And, and, and for them to be safeguarded against, you know, just folding up the doors and auctioning everything off, because I've seen that happen so many times around here. And so to be able to put that into place and, and create that structure, I think really invites, you know, talented people to join your team, knowing that even if I'm gone mm-hmm. That they're still secured. Yeah. So that, that's the, that's the five to 10 year plan is getting that put into place.

Building this all by yourself, you know, selling the jobs, wearing the tool belt to, to now spending your time, you know. Strategically managing the business, you know, thinking about how you can expand, how you continue to grow and, and, and, uh, you know, just, just keep, keep excelling.

Uh, you know, I, I'm curious, you know, if, if you had to start all over today, like is there any I. Anything that you wish you would've known that you now know, you know, back at the beginning, that like you would share or, or give some advice to any, anyone else who's earlier on, you know, how could they achieve this same level of success that, you know, that took you 10 years, maybe? How do they do it in five? Like, what do you wish you would've known? What advice do you have?

And so, um, listening to her earlier on and not, not arguing with her so much about, you know, like if I would've started job costing when she told me to first start job costing, I probably would've understood a little bit more earlier on. I probably would've shifted a little bit quicker. And so when I first started, I was, you know, all my invoicing, like the payroll, I was doing everything by hand and spreadsheets and I mean, it was, it was exhausting.

I learned it and I understood it, but if I would've just immediately said, okay, I'm adopting QuickBooks Day one, right? I would've saved myself three years, right? If I would've immediately said, okay, I'm gonna jump into job tread day one and learn this before I even start. I mean, I would've been, I would've catapulted myself forward. With systems and processes.

So it's just not being so stubborn, I think would've, would've, would've really moved me forward quicker and not thinking that I had to do it a certain way or learn the hard way. Yeah. And so, uh, listening to podcasts and just taking the advice from people that have been down the road, I, I, I really wish I would've done that more earlier on because I, I would be, we would be 10 times the company we are right now, if I would've done that earlier on. So, yeah. Yeah.

And, you know, it's, it's been awesome being able to, to kind of just be a fly on the wall here watching, you know, you continue to build such a great business and, you know, I can't wait to see what the next, you know, two to three years and how you, you know, expand into new markets. I mean, it sounds like a really awesome, exciting challenge, exciting time for the company, and I, you know, I can't, can't wait to see Make it happen, man.