Buffalo bread is where the fun begins Buffalo bread, the podcasting me Join us on this crazy, feels not fear of me Laugh along with JJ Dan Dan Super funny, the biggest bill's fast to the now we're ready to roll Welcome back to the Buffalo Bread Podcast, JJ here with Dan. I would say as always, but I've had a pretty substantial hiatus with the birth of the sun and the parenting time.
I appreciate you for carrying the pod in my absence, sir, but I'm very excited to be back and we are here in week two has is just wrapping up of Buffalo Bill's training camp. We have some takes we have some thoughts we have some hopes we have some dreams. How are you doing Dan? I am living in the land of hopes and dreams because it is NFL preseason. We missed you last week when we we kicked this thing off.
All of the friends of the friends of the pod not friends of the bills send their warmest regards to you, your beautiful wife, Maya and baby Theo as you go through this wonderful journey of sleepless parenthood, my friend. Thank you. Thank you. And then you know the friends of the pod I mentioned in our kind of group group messaging with those guys as well that the times that that episode has happened where I haven't been on the actual show, which is just a couple of times.
There's one time we were kind of on vacation and couldn't record you and Brandon handled it. And we actually love just as a fan of our own podcast those times. Like of course I appreciate being able to talk to you and and do the show. But but it's fun because I have no idea what's coming. And then hilarity ensues and chaos and it's awesome. So actually listening to Jared decompensate into a pile. It was amazing was just as a master strokes.
And then you know to have to have Steve like kick down the door and declare the Dolphin Super Bowl champions Brandon to be absolutely you know resolved to defeat. It was a good time to listen to the friends of the pod. And as always, you would let an excellent show. So I appreciate all their contributions as well. Oh yeah, totally. Yeah, that's a we are very lucky to have a deep bench to go to when one of us needs to be off the pod. And you know, life stuff happens we are fans. We are dads.
We work full time jobs. We love talking bills. But sometimes life gets in the way and we're lucky to have the friends of the pod that we do that honestly bring so much heat and so much energy every time that they're on. It's really really fortunate for us. And people that we can truly call dear friends, you know, 14 of the 17 weeks of the season. Exactly. Exactly.
And the reason we only record in the off season with those jokers is because it's because once the season kicks off, no one's talking to each other. Nobody's talking to each other. Not in any kind of you know, it's never football. It's all the other things. Absolutely. Absolutely. Ah, but man, all the other things can take a back seat for right now because my friend, we are here to talk about football. You and I at the close of week two of training camp for the Buffalo Bills.
Are you ready, my friend to talk some buffalo? I couldn't be more ready.
And I think that, you know, the good a good place to start since we're kind of reconvening here is what the heck the Scuttlebutt was all off season that we feel, you know, the tired takes the maybe spicy takes the things that that the media at large have been saying about the Buffalo Bills and this team in the off season and where we now that we've, you know, reassembled the team for the 2024 upcoming season in training camp, how we feel the buffalo's takes have either cooled or heated up.
And I'll kind of kick us off with the first one, which absolutely, absolutely this this should we could re ran this keeping the receipts like our first show name because the whole Stefan digs absence will break the bills offense is a take that I heard over and over immediately following that trade in April to the Houston Texans. And I just I just don't get it.
I mean, it's the it's the kind of cold meat take that, you know, talking heads will throw out there because they don't actually watch any of the games. Stefan digs was a completely he was like a fifth string player in a lot of of the matches the bills had later in the year and completely disappeared in the playoffs yet again for a third straight season. He was a non factor in the playoff games for the bill. So I just think that that's a cold take.
I think he's going to look, you know, he's going to look good out of the gate in Houston. I can see him putting up some good numbers, but I think he's going to tail off because he's getting older. He's losing his step. And I think he's also probably going to get shut down in big crunch time moments because he doesn't have that elite physical skill set that you need to get around bigger corners. So yeah, that's that's a cold take. How about you, sir?
Yeah, no, I absolutely co-signed the digs thing. It's interesting because at the end of last season, his usage rate, we talked about how short the routes he was running actually were. There were moments where you go back and look at his film like I did in the off season as we took a hiatus from the pod where you could still see some of the burst and winning in space and one on one matchups. But the reality is this last year, he was not one on one very often. He was almost always bracketed.
And as a result, he was easier to take out of the equation. And I think more and more I'm buying into the narrative that the bills were interested in not funneling targets to him as they wanted to expand upon what this offense could do. Hence the ascendance of Clil Shakir, hence the the second miraculous second half of the season the Dalton Kincaid had. I think the bills were building towards getting rid of digs. So broke into me, I agree, seems like an extreme take.
I have one that's kind of fed by the digs take. And that is the obsession that bills media have had about every single wide receiver off the street that the bills have signed with the again, hopeful optimism that comes with the off season that maybe this guy or that guy who hasn't been a stud on another team is going to come to Buffalo with Josh Allen and find their way. And for me, JJ, the take that I'm absolutely sick of hearing of is that Chase Claypool is good.
And that is one that we have had to suffer through since OTAs in the spring. I appreciate the pop. I appreciate the the sort of mature response that Claypool has given to Buffalo bills media his response to the coaching staff. I think that's great for a kid to show a little bit of personal growth in that way. But Chase Claypool has a lot of a lot of tape that shows him with an inability to catch the football on most occasions.
And I get he had a couple of splash plays in shorts and a t shirt and OTAs. But he was always going to be competing for the fifth or sixth wide receiver spot.
And you know, we as bills fandom, we always love to find the Andy Isabella on the group, like that known that person that no one else we feel like is talking about that we want to kind of hold up there, not only to show our football chops and our football knowledge, but also like we it's fun to be the person who thought that guy was going to be the guy before the season started. But we have all bought into this chase. Kate Claypool is good thing.
And in reality, as this wide receiver room for Buffalo is pretty well settled in the top four. It's Keon Coleman, who we're going to get to and that dude catches everything. It's Curtis Samuel, it's close here. And then it's Mac, I don't like shoes, cats or vegetables, Hollins. After that, you could talk me into MVS as a straight line deep threat. You could talk me into Tyrell Shavers is having a great camp. It is hard for me to be talked into Chase Claypool above those two guys, though.
So the all the energy that went into this Chase Claypool take to me was something that I was glad to be able to tap out of in the off season. Yeah, and in my regard, it's like Chase Claypool, he's told the league what he is by being a low effort, low at low attitude player. And it's really been, you know, he had a great season early on with Ben Routhelsberger and in Pittsburgh, where somehow problem wide receivers find amazing success. And he did that.
And then he from there fizzled out and has done literally nothing in the league since then. He's got all the all the gifts, all of the physical tools that you want in that kind of skill set, deep speed, kind of large body, good catch radius. But yeah, the ability to catch the ball, the understanding and knowledge of a system and where to be and when to be all things that seem to he seemed to have lost over the past few years.
And on top of that, the ceiling interception that Taylor wrap made against the dolphins in the clinch in the game that clinched the FCEs for the bills. That ceiling interception was because Chase Claypool ran the wrong route and left kind of the to a tag, Tagalovia wide open to throw that that pick. And then the game. So, you know, there's so many things here, his tape just shows us a player that doesn't have it. And he's trying to read, you know, recapture his career. And that's that's good.
And, you know, you wish for a best for somebody who's like, you know, really trying. I just don't see it. I'm with you. I think that take is is ice cold that he's going to come in and be some kind of top three receiver on this team. I think he's at best a five or a six on the roster, depending on how the preseason games go. And at worst, off the roster completely. And then that middle ground could be a veteran on the practice squad to be called up in case of emergency.
Another take that I have, and it's kind of related to the first one is that, you know, Josh Allen has reached a ceiling and will take a step back without a number one wide receiver that he, you know, again, the digs trade is going to cripple the offense is one take, but that Josh Allen himself will be a lesser quarterback without Stefan Diggs. And I see that as being absolutely, absolutely false and unlikely.
I think there's a greater chance that Josh Allen ascends to a new level as a quarterback without, you know, a moody wide receiver hanging around his neck demanding targets. What do you think about that? No, I agree. We have, we have been the, the big proponents of Josh needs to be a point guard at quarterback.
We have broken down, I don't know how many pods over the last four seasons, where one of the key indicators of whether or not the bills of one or bills of loss is how many guys catch a pass from Josh in a game. If it's six or above, usually the bills are winning because Josh is freely distributing the ball to a multitude of different targets. And if it's less than that, I can almost tell you that digs or Davis were a target funnel for that game.
And the bills lost and Josh probably had two turnovers. I don't even need to see the score to know if the bills one, I just need to know how many guys caught a ball and I can tell you with relative certainty if the bills have won a game in Josh Allen's recent past. I believe that the offense that Joe Brady is look seeking to set up is going to allow Josh to do that.
When you look at training camp film, when you see read the reports coming out of camp, they're shifting a lot on the offensive line in the run game. They're using a ton of pre snap motion and not just this cheap motion that they use down to Miami, but all sorts of different paced motion to try to give Josh an advantage at the line of scrimmage.
I think one of the things that became a hallmark at the end of Dables time and all throughout Dorsey's albeit short but but memorable tenure is a is a maven of EPA per play is that Josh, when he was at his worst would get caught up at the line of scrimmage over analyzing and Brady is building an offense that's going to give him easy answers and allow him to be a short intermediate yard merchant when it comes to getting some of the weapons around him involved.
So JJ in short, I don't see Josh taking a step back because I think Joe Brady understands where Josh needs to be better and how the team around him needs to function in order to help him get to that level.
So I like what I'm seeing in camp with this scheme, and I like the fact that they're gonna they're gonna give Josh a multitude of different weapons to get the ball to and listen, they're integrating a lot of these new weapons and on boarding them at a pace we have never seen before in the McDermott Allen Bean era. We're usually critical of how they onboard new weapons. Everybody is getting involved. It's not just Shakir. It's not just concade.
They're getting Samuel involved in a lot of fun ways. Mack Hollins has been a go to and training camp for Josh as well. And I mean, we can't undersell Keon Coleman and what he's been doing in the highlight the highlight real stuff he's been putting out in camp to. So I'm actually excited because I think we see a new version of Josh this year as opposed to the step back. So I'm totally with you.
I've got a second take here that I'm really sick of hearing about and it is adjacent to this conversation because of course in the media landscape, if you're knocking somebody down, you've got to elevate someone else to that position. And I've heard a lot, a lot of media put some lofty expectations on two guys in particular that played well last year, but only did so for about half a season. The first is Jordan Love.
And the second is CJ Stroud out of Houston, who that is a team that until digs is no longer there, we get past the season or we get past the away game we have again against them this year. CJ Stroud and his development is going to be compared to what Alan is doing simultaneously because digs is the common denominator there. I think Jordan Love had an in reddable second half of the season last year and he put up some absolute monster film.
Same thing with CJ Stroud had a better first half of the year as opposed to second half of the year. Does a lot of great things with this footwork. He's completely totally accurate. And now he has a plethora of weapons around him in order to be even more effective. But both of those squads because of where they finished are going to be playing much tougher schedules. Houston played the fourth easiest schedule by win percentage last year out of all teams.
And they really, really struggled to run the ball at the end of last year, which is something Stroud really needs at this stage in his career to alleviate a lot of pressure. I'm not saying these guys aren't going to be good, but I've had people say that Jordan Love and CJ Stroud are the second best QB in the league behind my homes. And I just think that's crazy talk when you've got Alan Burrow, Lamar Jackson, those guys ahead of them.
So while I buy these guys are good, I am not buying the hype that these guys are the next descendant my homes. We want to see him do it for another year. And I want to see him put a full season together. Love didn't do it, took him a while to get going and then Stroud tapered off towards the end of the year and into the playoffs. So let's see these guys see if they can get beyond the sophomore slump beyond the rookie wall that they hit. And let's see them put it together for a full season.
Well, and, you know, I agree with that, you know, being critical of that take because it's true. It's it's exactly the kind of thing we've talked about for years as Bill's fans of, you know, until until somebody does it year over year, the common national narrative usually is, oh, they have to prove it. They still have something to prove. They still have something to prove. And then these these jokers come along and they're just anointed the new top class of the quarterback, you know, world.
And that also like that would also point me to Anthony Richardson, who like people are out there talking about how he's going to be the best quarterback in the AFC this played four games last year. That's what I mean is like, but and it's like you said to open the show, it's hope season, right? Like this is just people casting out there and being like, yes, we've got it.
It's like, I remember having a conversation with one of the students who worked for me on campus, who's a huge Philadelphia Eagles fan years ago. And it was right after the Carson Wentz came on the scene. I was like, dude, you guys got got lucky. You got your guy. He's like a generational QB talent in his second, you know, starting his second year. And that second year, they actually went, you know, went to and won a Super Bowl, but he wasn't the quarterback at the time they wanted.
Of course, everybody knows that sort of Nick Foles. And I just remember having that I remember that conversation every time hype gets big about a quarterback, a young quarterback in their second or third season, because we saw how terribly that fell apart. And once the NFL has a book on somebody, they have to evolve even further. It's not about having these talents and then delivering on those talents. And that's that, right? Like you're automatically good in the league.
You need to always be evolving because you better bet that the defenses are looking for the flaws and holes in your game and going to attack them. Always, always. All right, JJ, let's land this plane and then move on to some bills specific talk here. What do you got as your final most annoying take of the off season? Oh my gosh, it's the same annoying take of last off season of the like the pumped up jets are going to win it all.
But Aaron Rodgers is back and better than ever and it's all about football. But hey, I'm going to miss all the OTAs because I've got some weird stuff to do in Peru or you know, Spain or something. It was Egypt. I think it was wherever it was. You know, this is he's such a hypocrite and he's such like a diva. And it's just, I mean, that's it. Like you all talked on the Friends of the Pod episode last week in the AFC East preview.
The jets are putting a lot of eggs in a lot of old broken body baskets and so we got a they're hoping that that comes through and they've course, you know, it's going off with the national narrative and the media pundits and it's also because the jets are the one of the biggest the biggest market in sports, right? And so it's this question of the jets have the best roster in the league. Is it better than any roster that's ever been?
They're going to go all the way and it's like the jets haven't been to the playoffs in 14 years. They are going to find a way to jets it up. I'm just wondering, listen, and I I I have seen the jets hand it to the bills enough times in the solid era to know that like that defense that defense is going to be good, I think it's legit no matter what. Right.
But they've lost a lot of pieces like who who is going to be rushing the QB for the jets if they can't figure out what to do with Hassan Redick like they lost Bryce Huff. I know they've got Jermaine Johnson, Quinn and Williams they've got on the interior. But if Redick doesn't go, are you putting your eggs in the Will McDonald second year basket? Right. I mean, this is a team that has to get pressure with four so they can drop seven. That is the way they like to play. They don't like to blitz.
If they're not getting pressure with Jermaine Johnson, Jovonkin, Law, Quinn and Williams and maybe Will McDonald as opposed to Hassan Redick. I mean, it changes dramatically the dynamic of that defense. And I don't think there's enough people talking about the fact that we don't know where this Jets pass rush is going to come from this year. I think Jermaine Johnson is great. He's like an athletic freak, right? And Williams has the ability to get pressure on the inside.
But this is not the same unit that was built out last year where they could rotate. They could go like the Bills in their heyday. They could go seven or eight deep across that line and get quality pass rush from all of those guys. And I just don't think they have that ability this year to rotate at that level because I think their depth on the defensive line is less. It's less than it was last year. And that affects everything that they want to do in the secondary with.
It's a hold on every play, Sauce Gardner and DJ Reed, who I think is legitimately good unlike Sauce Gardner, who I think is incredibly overrated. So I think the Jets, everyone's talking about Rodgers and putting the focus on Rodgers. I think the Jets defense is going to be good. I don't think it's going to be good as people think. And I think even if the offense can become just average under Rodgers, which I'm not 100 percent convinced that it can.
This assumes no decline from a defense that no longer has the ability to rush for quality guys on every play at the opposing QB. I think that there's going to be a bit of a regression for the Jets defense, not a ton, but enough to where even the smallest level of improvement from the offense could be offset by the fact that this defense is dramatically changed because it doesn't get the same amount of pressure that it did last year. I think that's valid.
And I think too, the Jets are approaching what we as Bill's fans were watching with this team, with our team, in that parts of the core of that Jets defense are just getting older and injuries will start to crop up more frequently. And there will be lost steps. There will be lost angles as they continue to age out of the prime of their careers.
And yeah, they're injecting, you know, sauce gardener, of course, brand new couple of years in the league, Will McDonald and Jermaine Johnson, like they have some really young pieces that are promising. However, I do think that there's a lot, there's a lot of pieces, you know, a lot of the starters, there's 11 starters on defense, and there's a lot of those players who are either getting older or were not part of that premier defense of the last couple years for the Jets.
So I agree with you on that. And for me, it's really also about Aaron Rodgers. Can Aaron Rodgers play 17 games on a surgically repaired blown Achilles on with at least eight of those games on Jets Tur, which is notably the most dangerous turf in the league. Yeah, I don't know, running back the Jets 2023 Super Bowl champion takes for 2024 feels like peak media laziness to me. But we'll see. I mean, we'll see. Again, the defense is going to be good.
I mean, like this discussion we had about Jordan Loven, CJ Stroud, they're going to be good. The question is like, how good and is it good enough to justify these lofty preseason expectations? Right. And I have my doubts. My doubts on all fronts, which is why these takes are insufferable. And I'm so glad to have real football, JJ back on the field, even if it's in training camp in preseason form, because now we have real stuff to get into data. Yes. Oh my God. Actual stuff.
One last note on the Jets. Their season opener is against the team that features one edge rusher known well to this pod, Leonard Floyd, who blew the Achilles. Yep, the 49ers. Blue Aaron Rogers Achilles on his fourth snap in the last season. Roger's kid catch a break, right? Leonard Floyd cursed him in 2023 and he's going to see him again in 2024. The Niners are another one. I get it because they've been so consistently good for so long, but they've already been anointed as like NFC champs.
And I'm like, that defense is old. That defense got old in a hurry in San Francisco. They weren't that good last year. So like I would pump the brakes on that because the Rams, I think, are going to be really good this year. I think the Eagles might have a bounce back season in the NFC. I know this is a Bill's podcast, but like we are just general football fan. Yeah, we do the whole bet, right? The 49ers are another team like they're old.
They're old on defense and they haven't been good on defense for a couple of seasons. I'm like, do we really do we want to draw that? Do we just want to pencil in the Chiefs and the Niners and the Super Bowl again? Because I've got my doubts, at least on the NFC front. Remember Dan, we're a country that talks about hard work, but just talks about it. That infiltrates every level of our society. We talk about how hardworking we are, but everybody's on chat GBT doing their slide decks. Right.
Right. It's like, who was good last year? Oh, they're going to be good again this year. Here we go. That's the bias of power rankings. All right. But what I think is worth talking about in terms of work ethic is some of the players on this Buffalo Bill's roster in training camp. Yeah, guys working their butts off. That's right. Who do you have as risers?
Who's coming up for you from the content you've consumed, from the different people that you trust that have been talking from training camp, from friends. I have friends who've been to training camp and talked and texted me some things. So who did you got? Blessedly, number one on my list is Kyar Elam, which is a dude. Blessedly. I mean, we need him to be good. I said it last pod on the Friends of the Pod episode, the kickoff the season.
I think the thing, and it seems so counterintuitive because McDermott is so good at coaching a secondary, but the thing that might hold them back is their lack of secondary depth. They're just they've changed out a lot of stalwarts from Trey White to Jordan Poyer to Mike Ahide, probably Mike Ahide as well. And the way they utilize the secondary, not just in past protection, but in shutting in the run game so that that Bill's defense never needs to come out of nickel.
I just think the secondary is a really big concern for me.
So to seek higher Elam, not just come in and justify being the third DB third outside cornerback off the off the bench, but maybe even pushing Benford a little bit for some starting reps, I think is good to see, especially because the way that the bills have started to shift their defense and the way defenses generally are playing a more physical style at the line of scrimmage with the way they're pressing opposing wide receivers to shut down the
quick game and the bills face QB after QB after QB that are quick game merchants. They face to a twice a year. I mean, the guy hikes the ball and gets it out in like 2.1 seconds. No pass rush. No pass rush is getting to a QB in two 2.1 seconds. If their wide receivers have a free release off the line of scrimmage, enter your strongest, fastest and arguably most physical cornerback on their huster and Kyre Elam and he's finally putting together some technique with those raw traits.
It's not just the picks that he's had off of Josh Allen in the training camp when he's been going against the first unit offense. It's the way he's sticking to guys. He's still a little bit handsy, but he's no more handsy than I don't know, sauce gardener maybe over in New Jersey, right? I want to keep dunking on sauce gardener for being handsy.
I just I feel listen, I read through all of like ESPN's preseason rankings of top 10 players at a position and I was very heartened to see an executive be like, I think sauce is overrated. You could call hold on him literally every time he's down the field, right? And finally, there's some acknowledgement in NFL nerd cast land that maybe sauce, despite his his size, speed combination really does rely on like breaking the rules and grabbing guys to keep them keep them from getting past him.
So no, I'm happy to see what we have been seeing on this podcast for two years finally come around. But anyway, I digress. So but Elam is finally putting together the technique that he needs to and the awareness that he needs to in this overall bill scheme. And I think I think that's good because listen, love Christian Benford love the chip on on a shoulder that he plays with has not played a full full full NFL season yet.
Rizul Douglas love what he brought to the squad midseason last year at the trade deadline. The bills did not extend him past this year. And he was banged up at the end of last season. There is a world JJ where Kayer, Elam and Jamarcus Ingram are your only two starting outside cornerbacks for the bills. If injury luck goes the wrong way. So it is important that they are getting maximum production at every level of this cornerback room and Elam is essential to that.
And I love what I'm seeing from him so far again, not just in splash plays, but his commitment to learning the techniques that he needs to to maximize his what are God like physical tools. Yeah, absolutely. I'm with you on that. I'm excited about his prospects to finally get a fresh start. I think with the change, you know, with Butler out and Jamila a die in as the DB's coach. I think there's a good opportunity for him to kind of get get a fresh run at a starting job. And yeah, absolutely.
There are some injury prone CB set to start for this team. For me, my first stock up guy is Dwayne smooth, who's the defensive end slash defensive tackle has played a little bit in both positions that the bills picked up on free agency from the Jaguars and who I recall substantially, you know, stymie the bills and multiple matchups during his career with the Jaguars. Good, good dude burst, got some size is able to kind of bull rush or use some speed to power stuff. Excellent with hand fighting.
Excellent setting the edge and holding the point of attack in the run game. And the bills really are looking for, you know, number four, right? They've got a Jepin as a Greg Russo and von Miller as the top three pass rushers, but they're trying to figure out who that four is going to be. Is it doing smooth? Is it Casey tool who they got out of Washington? Is it going to be the young rookie to just draft it out of Troy? Yeah, John Solomon. Or is it Kingsley Jonathan?
I've heard nothing about like he has not shown up in training camp to this point. I know they just put pads on this week, but it's a question of who's who's going to be the top four pass rushers because on the outside, because I think they're probably going to keep nine or 10 defensive linemen across the whole defensive line and five or six of them at most are going to be these. Well, and smooth can flip inside if need be. He can play on the interior and the bills love that versatility.
No, I agree. I think he's been a pleasant surprise on the defensive line. It's a defensive line again, that is outside of Jones, Oliver, maybe Von Miller or Epinezza on the right side.
And then Greg Grousseau outside of the starting four, like the conversation we had about the Jets and how they like to rotate guys in and out, smooth showing out the way he is at camp is a very important, much needed depth piece that's going to be able to spell guys, not just on the outside, but on the inside of that defensive line as well. So no, happy with the way he's showing out for sure. All right, JJ, let's flip it to the offensive side of the ball for me real quick.
And I want to talk about one that may seem boring, but I think needs to be needs to be discussed.
It is the consistency, the spectacular consistency and reliability of one Kalil Shakir, that dude with all of the offseason drama and the departure of Stefan Diggs having to sit there as he is working out with Eric Molds in the offseason and listen to everybody and their brother say the cupboard is bare in the wide receiver room and Buffalo, no one's going to be able to fill the shoes of Stefan Diggs.
Shakir has kept his head down, worked his butt off all offseason, and it is paying dividends at least in camp. We'll see what happens when he gets to live games. But his route running is crisp. His release is on time. He has caught pretty much everything that Josh has thrown his way, which is a signature of the top four wide receivers at camp, generally speaking. Finally, we've got four guys that can catch a Josh Allen ball with regularity and consistency and Shakir is leading the way with that.
And I think it's important because he is a chess piece, they can use literally anywhere in a wide receiver alignment. He can play slot, but don't sleep on his long speed downfield and his burst and acceleration when he gets a little bit of space in short area yardage situations. Shakir is literally the Swiss army knife that can kind of do it all in this wide receiver room.
And he has absolutely stood out to me in the first couple of weeks of camp with the chemistry he's built with with Allen, but also the confidence and crispness and efficiency with which he is executing his route tree. I mean, this is a dude JJ who I think is only going into his third year. Looks like a polished veteran at this point in camp. Absolutely. And I think one of the most important things you mentioned there is that he can play any of the positions.
And I think that that's something that even Keon Coleman talking to the media recently pointed to as, you know, they learn concepts in this offense. They don't learn positions. It's not who's the X, who's the Y, who's the Z. It's what is the concept? What is everybody doing so that they all know all of the different levels and route stems for the offensive passing concepts?
And Clial Shakir, I mean, that is his game to a T is I can be anywhere on the formation and I can get you any route you need because his route running is probably his greatest skill. And then after the catch, he's also excellent.
And I think that's actually one of the things that is so telling about the way that Brandon Bean has constructed this wide receiver roster is that each of the wide receivers that they have in those top four positions is somebody who's proven that they can turn something out from a short pass into a long gain after the catch, a place that the bills have struggled for a number of years recently. Yeah, absolutely, dude. All right. So those are my two, my two risers, Elam and Shakir.
How are you going to bring us home on this one? Who is your, your final riser in this category? I cannot be more happy than to say Keon Coleman has proved me a hater and a doubter for so far in training camp so far. I mean, no, no real bullets, no real games yet, no performance in the season.
But Keon Coleman has shown out as a physical, as a technician when it comes to not getting separation necessarily, I don't think that's ever going to be his game, but just mossing guys beating them at the catch point and providing himself an agile kind of flexible receiver to Josh Allen. And I think his and Josh Allen's chemistry has shown to be much more advanced than it should be expected to be at this point with how young he is a age wise.
And then to the fact that he's a brand new rookie in the system, but he seems to have done his homework seems to be available seems to be where he's supposed to be. And he's done a wonderful job in camp and everyone's excited. I mean, we're seeing the highlights that come through the highlight real catches the toe tapping sideline stuff, reaching over Kyrie Lim in perfect coverage and snatching a touchdown. All of that is, is, is exciting me for this season. And I'm not a gambler.
I'm not a degenerate gambler like you like to describe yourself as, but I may like want to put like 50 bucks on the over for Keon Coleman with five touchdowns. I think that's especially the way they're using him in the red zone and training camp. That's any indication of how he's going to line up in the season. I think the taking the over at five is definitely something that I would not encourage because it's not a gambling podcast. That's something I may very well consider myself.
And my friend, do not sell yourself short. You're as much a degenerate gambler as I am on this podcast. I will have no slander about about your gambling impulses. I think we, I think we literally bet bourbon every year on something. That's just friendly banter amongst guys who send each other bourbon bottles. I owe you some two bourbon bottles though. We ship alcohol to each other across state lines because we make wild bets. Like we are, we're gamblers. We're degenerates.
We'll be, we'll have another bourbon bet for this season coming up, I'm sure. Oh yeah, absolutely. We're, we're gonna, don't worry folks. There is going to be a disagreement, a quarrel, a departure, if you will, for me and JJ that will ultimately end up turning into a bet for sure. But it's not going to be JJ and the guys who we feel like are not taking advantage of their opportunities at camp because what goes up must come down.
So for every riser there is, there are always a couple of guys that get replaced as those that are falling off the depth chart, potentially off the roster for these Buffalo Bills. And there's more than a couple of guys JJ, despite all the positivity in Bill's camp that don't seem to be showing out in the way that we had hoped. Who do you want to start with as one of your, one of your followers here over the course of the first two weeks of camp?
I'm gonna, I'm gonna go into sending order of concern. And I think that we had this person as both of our like a number one followers because it is absolutely critical that Conor McGovern does well in the pivot if they keep him in center. It's, you know, the Bill's offensive line was their greatest strength, the continuity and consistency of that offensive line playing every snap together except for like two or three when Deon Dawkins was getting his hand stitched back together.
The consistency and continuity of that offensive line carried the offense last year and was the reason that late in the season they were able to run so much. And so moving on from Mitch Morse and sliding Conor McGovern to center and bringing Edwards in to the left guard. If that experiment does not work out and it doesn't appear to be working out because of Conor McGovern Edwards looks good at left guard.
But according to reports from, you know, the beat reporters covering camp McGovern is very sloppy with the exchanges to Josh Allen. He's throwing shotgun snaps low. He's throwing them high. He's missing completely. That just can't happen. You need to never talk about the center, right? Like this, the center just should never be talked about in the outcome of a game because if it is, it's usually bad news.
And let's remind everyone I'm going to try I'm going to try not to flip out because we have a long season ahead of us. But let's just gently remind everyone listening that the bills volunteered for this. They didn't just get rid of a center in Mitch Morse for what was in comparison to what their their cap deficit was a drop in the bucket of salary savings. They also got rid of their primary backup center in Ryan Bates.
They volunteered for this because they thought they would be better by jettisoning their top center and top backup center somewhere else and had enough confidence in their program that they could take a guy and Conor McGovern who has never played a single snap at center in the NFL only in college and make him an NFL ready center with a QB who is in his Super Bowl prime window by any metric you want to take advanced or traditional.
This was a top five unit and most pass protection and run efficiency metrics in the league last year. And the bills looked at that and said, we can do more with less. And that is where they are at. They drafted Van Pruin Granger, who right now doesn't seem like he can get over Alec Anderson, who is being reported out of camp as the primary backup center to Conor McGovern right now.
So not only did they voluntarily get rid of their depth and put a guy who's never played center in the NFL at a center position. They also didn't do much to address the depth over the course of the year. Am I over am I overblowing it? Am I overstating it? I need to know now before we do 18 weeks of this because I could do this. I could do this every pod. They volunteered. They took a top five unit and they voluntarily tore it down.
Like that's either hubris or stupidity at this stage in the game. I think if I had to pick one from those options is hubris because I think it's brand being believing that you can do a value based approach to offensive line construction because that's what he's believed his entire career as far as we can tell. The money ball approach. Right. The money ball approach. Take that with your quarter of a billion dollar QB. Yes. Oh my God. I'm sorry. I thought I was going to flip out on flip out.
The number one breaksack metric in all of NFL football, which I think that being lansed leans too heavily on. You're not overreacting. I think it is a real concern. That's why we both agree that he is our number one worry, is that he's not looked good in the pivot during training camp. They have not had Cedric Phan Prangranger take snaps by all measures or accounts or records with the first unit.
been primarily the second or third and will clap. Another center who started in this league has also not reportedly been working with the first because I think they're trying to work through this consistency problem with Conor McGovern. But there has to be a point in time. If he keeps this up through the preseason, I think we'll see them try to make some moves and shuffle shuffle the line again. Yeah. And it's exactly where you don't want to be. All right, that's a that's a good
one. I've got one too. Balan Specter is a guy who is is falling for me and honestly could find himself without a without a roster spot here. Linebacker, it's not that it's unsettled JJ, but we saw this last year with the way injuries kind of tore through that unit. Milano being back is great, but it's really clear to me and what's being reported out of camp and what I'm what I'm seeing and in highlights and live streams, his instincts
are as sharp as ever. His body has not healed to a point where it can react as quickly as his instincts would normally allow him to. He's a little bit slower to round corners. He's not taking such sharp angles. A lot of this is kicking the rust off. But I think the the hideous nature of the injury that he suffered last year, I don't know that it's going to be Von Miller territory where this is a sunk year for Milano, but I don't think
we're going to see peak map Milano until way later in the season. And as a result of that, there are opportunities in this linebacker room for guys to step up. And I think the bills have had a sinking feeling heading into this year that Milano may not be 100% even though he may play week one, he may not be 100% himself until much later in the season.
That's why you go out and get a Nicholas Morrow and you continue to invest in and in developing a guy like Dorian Williams and Balan Spector to me is wasting a golden opportunity to really leap over and athletic freaking Williams, right, who is just like you have described him the Tasmanian devil, but plays with so much pure instinct and so much pure energy has a hard time reeling that in. Spector is every bit as lethal at the point of attack.
He just seems to be so slow in his reactions. He almost seems to be kind of kind of asleep out there a lot of times. His footwork transitions are brutal and past coverage. He's getting eaten up across the middle of the field. He seems like a dude who has taken a major step back in his growth and development. And it leaves the linebacker room to me a little bit lighter in depth than we would like, particularly with Terrell Bernard coming off
an injury and Matt Milano coming off an injury. I said it last week and I'll stick to it. If Milano or Bernard, one of those two guys play and that divisional game against the Chiefs, I don't know that Mahomes does what he does over the middle of the field and the past game against the bills in that game. Like we just need one of these guys healthy and then another guy to show out is a depth piece that won't mess stuff up. And that that's
the bar that Spector has had to cross just don't mess stuff up and pass coverage. And he's been absolutely brutal, absolutely brutal. Yeah. Well, and I think that the point you made there that I agree with completely is that I think that all the reports coming out of training camp is that there is currently one capable backup and it's Dorian Williams who's taken a bit of a step and not seeming like he's in over his head with the defensive scheme with his fits where he's supposed
to be. And so I think that that is, you know, that's a saving grace. Okay, Dorian Williams, who we both said was like a heat seeking missile who didn't have a good targeting system, maybe addressing that problem and getting better. But you're not in a good place if you have only three viable linebackers in this league. I haven't heard anything about Dion or Nicholas Moro, the veterans that they signed. So I'm worried that they don't have the kind of depth
they need. And guess what AJ Klein just announced his retirement. So there's no more trying to dust off the old AJ Klein boots. So yeah, I'm concerned about all of that. Yeah, same here. Absolutely same here. But that's it as far as negativity goes, I think for the both of us because on the balance, it's been a really positive start to camp for the bills. Looking forward to seeing what they do in preseason, reminding myself not
to overreact as we as we approach week one. Because already I've dreamed up some wild defeatist bills takes for a week one against the Cardinals. I can't wait to share with everybody. So yeah, we can't wait to get down in the dirt with you. We're gonna down the dull drums of bills post preseason depression. Absolutely. Alright, JJ, to wrap things up here real quick. We've talked about the pros so far we've seen in camp, we talked about
the cons. And listen, it's an eternity to start the season bills don't play a game until September 8. So we have just over five weeks to go before the bills are going to have to be pro ready to kick this thing off. There's a lot that can happen even with their
limited salary cap space. Some of it could happen because of necessity. Some stuff like we're seeing with the safety injuries that Edwards and Cole Bishop are experiencing could be a result of reactions to loss of players that you thought you're going to be able to count on. But not being able to predict the future 100%. Is there a move on the horizon that you can see the bills making before the start of the season to bolster the roster?
If there is, I see it only in one of two positions safety or cornerback, because I just don't I think that they've done a good enough job with enough depth, even when we're talking about the center, even when we're talking about linebackers, places that we have concerns. It's for those places, those positions, it's more about somebody else stepping up and fixing
that problem. I don't think that that somebody else is on the roster for the cornerback room or the safety room, especially if the rash of injuries and the safety means that Mike Edwards or Cole Bishop cannot start the season. You're way too thin at that point. And so I think that it's a safety. I'm in Justin Simmons camp. I know he's probably waiting for somebody to roll up with a bag of cash who's on a contender and invite him to come
play on their team. I don't necessarily love the bills being that team because you probably they have a pretty clean salary cap over the next two years after eating a lot of dead money. And I don't necessarily want them to get back in trouble with kicking stuff down
the road. But I do think that it's possible he's the best safety that's out there and available and could immediately kind of fix some problems because he's a smart, heady player, he's knows a lot of different systems, and he can kind of be a hammer and a deep, deep middle guy. So I see that as the only safety solution. And then a reunion with Stefan Gilmore could be the CB solution. We talked about that a little bit last year. Would Gilmore ever come back to the bill?
Student ended so badly when he was here. I mean, I would love to see Gilmore back. And I do think he's a veteran presence that that CB room would benefit from. But do you really think Gilmore would would saunter on back to Buffalo? I don't know enough about Stefan Gilmore. Like, I don't know what kind of person he
is or what kind of character he is. But I do think that if I if I was Stefan Gilmore, I might actually consider it just because you can't be a player on the bills at any stage of your career and not at least have some appreciation of the community and the rabid fanaticism of the fan base. And so if I'm Stefan Gilmore, maybe nearing the end of my career, I'm like, you know what, let's close this book, you know, with with a full circle
chapter. And I'll go back to Buffalo, you know, a returning hero and then and make some make some things happen. Because I think that the reason that it was so it was so poor on his way out was that there was like transitions of coaching staffs. And he'd been on a trash team, the best he was probably one of the best players on trash teams for his entire career four years here. And so I could see Stefan Gilmore coming back because they are
competitor and because they do have opportunities for him to start. And maybe he, you know, men's and repairs and becomes a hero for Buffalo. He was so good with Dallas. Like, I don't think people have talked enough about the job he did in Dallas, he was really good with them. That dude can still play. I am all on the Justin Simmons bandwagon. And I would add one more to that quandary digs. Sure. Only because it looks like they're pretty committed to Taylor rap playing free safety.
And they're trying to figure out who the third safety in their dime package is going to be and then who the strong safety is going to be who's going to take that Jordan Poyer roll over. And quandary digs would be a nice pairing with with what they believe Taylor rap gives them already. But man, I would I would sell a kidney for for Justin Simmons to take a one year deal with the bills at this point. I just think don't do it. Well, I'm not. Listen,
it's preseason. Right. We if we get to week seven and the bills are like three and four and the secondary can't can't stop anybody. I might I might actually do that. But but Simmons would be so good in the McDermott scheme. He's like a natural fit. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he comes in turnkey. That seems to me to be the the no brain move. You know, it's funny is it's like Justin Simmons is to the McDermott defense as Curtis Samuel is to a team with
Josh Allen as the quarterback. You know what I mean? Like we were I don't I was bad at analogies on my SATs. I'm sorry. No, Justin Simmons is such a perfect fit for the Sean McDermott defense. Yeah. The same as I always felt because like two years ago when the Washington sign Curtis Samuel out of Carolina, I was like, why can't the bills get Curtis Samuel?
Because watching him play, I was like, we got this young inaccurate quarterback. Let's get a small shifty speedster who literally catches everything and does everything after the catch to take these things to the house. And so that's that's what I think of Curtis Samuel's fit with Josh Allen. Yeah, no, that makes that makes a lot of sense. And I apologize for not being a smarter cofos. But yeah, you know, you're the SATs were a dark dark time for me.
All right, we won't ask any any like big time, you know, question, what's the like the spelling B type questions and the vocabulary section of the Oh, yeah, all that nonsense. I can't I can't wait to have my kids absolutely ignore standardized testing when it comes time to apply for college. But yeah. Oh, man, that was fun. Yeah, good to get back into it. A nice tight 55 minutes here for the listeners at home JJ and some some bill centric content
to to get everybody headed into their weekend. So for those of you listening at home, like share and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, Apple and Spotify. And as always, go bills, go bills.