742. David Ditchfield - NDE & Creative Blossoming After Being Thrown Under a Train

My guest today is David Ditchfield. In 2006, David was a functional alcoholic who had just been evicted from his flat and was living with his sister and her husband when he got his coat caught in the doors of a train, got dragged along by the train, thrown under the train, was severely injured, and As he was getting ready for surgery in the hospital, he had a profound near-death experience in which he was met by beings of light who were healing him in various ways, and we'll

be getting into his story in great detail in this interview. In essence, when he recuperated a bit, he began to have impulses to paint paintings and eventually write music, and he ended up painting a lot of paintings, which we'll be showing in this interview and also writing a couple of symphonies and a rhapsody and he continues to do that stuff to this day. And needless to say, he's not an alcoholic anymore. Welcome to Buddha at the Gas Pump. My name is Rick Archer. Buddha at the Gas Pump is an

an ongoing series of interviews with spiritually awakening people. We've done well over 700 of them now, and if this is new to you and you'd like to check out previous ones, please go to batgap.com and look under the interviews menu where you'll see them all organized in various ways. This program is made possible through the support of appreciative listeners and viewers, so if you appreciate it and would like to help support it, there are PayPal buttons on every page

of the website and also a page describing alternatives to PayPal. If you like this video or interview as you're watching it, please hit the like button. That helps the algorithm bring it to the attention of more people. And please hit the subscribe button if you feel inclined to do so. So let me read a bit more of an elaborate bio here of David. David is now an artist, composer, author. In 2006 he had a horrific train accident in Cambridge, England, where he was pulled

under the wheels of a speeding train. This terrible accident nearly claimed his life, but moments before critical surgery he had a profound spiritual experience filled with love, radiant light, and spiritual beings. This near-death experience awakened hidden talents for music and painting. His musical journey is remarkable. Despite no formal training in classical music and an inability to read or write musical notation to this day, he

has composed two symphonies and a rhapsody, all premiering at sold-out concerts. This included being commissioned by the Cambridge Clarinet Choir to write a piece based on his

spiritual awakening. He continues to create classical works, currently working on a new Symphony, his artistic endeavors are no less remarkable, with one of his inspirational NDE paintings recently on display as part of a year-long exhibition in the Museum of the Bible in Washington, D.C. A few months ago, his extraordinary story reached a global audience when the BBC World Service aired a documentary about his journey titled "My Journey Beyond Death."

David's journey symbolizes the resilience of the human spirit and the boundless potential within all of us. He continues to paint and compose in Cambridge, England. I totally enjoyed your book. I converted it to audio and listened to the whole thing. But one interesting note that perhaps will get you started is that you were kind of scraping along and life was tough and you were drinking a lot of your scarce money and not finding much work. Yeah, at that point.

You had some classy girlfriend who was living in a different social strata than you were and life was difficult. And on a whim, you met some lady on a train who said she was going

to a spiritualist meeting to see a medium speak, and on a whim you went to that and the medium picked you out of the audience and said, "You're going to undergo a big change, buddy." But she wasn't getting any information on what it might be exactly, and you thought it might have something to do with your girlfriend or whatever, but it turned out it was getting dragged under a train.

Yeah, which I did not see coming at all. I mean, my life at that point was, it was all kind of like, I wouldn't say hedonistic, but it just wasn't grounded at all, you know. My life started out schooling, I struggled at school because I'm dyslexic and I wasn't diagnosed at the time, so I left school with no actual academic qualifications.

So that was obviously a struggle for me and, you know, that was like my blueprint, if you like, I just kind of I was kind of seen as being a troublesome sort of pupil and you know one who's lazy and inattentive all those kind of reports you know a lot of kids get who are struggling which I didn't like because I

actually did want to try and succeed I wanted to do something you know but that wasn't happening so when I left school I thought well what am I gonna do with my life I thought I'm gonna move to London I thought if I moved to London you know that would just be like it was all gonna open up for me it was like the you know the land of hope and glory for me and stuff and of course that wasn't to be the case you know when I got there I had a lot of high aspirations hence the

girlfriend that you talked about the high maintenance girlfriend you know that's what I was aspiring to that's what I thought I needed in my life you know and all these different things that I thought I needed we're not really doing me any good so to get by because obviously like any capital city it's

very expensive to live and London's no different. I was just picking up day-to-day casual work, manual laboring work, you know working on construction sites, anything I could pick up and a lot of that work was really picked up by going down to the local pubs, the local bars from where I lived and that's where all the site managers hung out after a day's work and you just kind of hustle for work the next day and of course I'd end up just drinking my wages each

night. So that's how that progressed into becoming an issue with me with alcoholism. And then you were at some bar with your buddies and there was a really cute bartender girl working there named Anna in your book and you ended up befriending Anna and it turned into a sort of relationship but you were having kind of troubles taking that leap and I remember you were seeing Anna off at the train in Cambridge, I guess, and then you got your coat caught in the doors of the train.

That's right. That's what happened. Yeah. I was, as you pointed out, you know, earlier, I was, I was evicted from my apartment where I was living in London because I'd run out of money by then. My sister and her family lived in Cambridge and she said, come and stay with us for a few

weeks. So that's what I did. And when I was up there, I'd only just really met Anna and we just just kind of we've got this connection why we connected you know and she was different she just seemed different she kind of represented a sort of sense of wholeness as well about her that were not all the things that you know that I was used to aspiring to him before that point you know but I liked it I like that fact but it kind of scared me at the same time knowing that she got that

within a but we kept in touch and she said oh you know I want to come up and see you and I said great so she came up to get back to London. So I took her down to the rail station to see her off and and that's how that happened she's got you know what's really strange is that actual day that I mean I was completely non-spiritual then as well you know that didn't enter into my life but that actual day it felt like there was an odd sort of vibration in there. I remember my

sister's cat was in the sort of bedroom and did this really bizarre thing. He

just scrambled on top of this very high cabinet, which is almost near the ceiling. And I was up there, I thought, "What are you doing up there?" And he just kind of stared at me, and I said, "What? What are you trying to say?" You know, so, anyhow, we… That's interesting. It is interesting, yeah. I mean, you know how they say animals can sometimes predict earthquakes and tidal waves and tsunamis

and things like that. They all run for the highlands when a tsunami is coming. So I think maybe that cat was picking up on something in your aura or whatever. I mean, you know, he was an amazing cat, you know, he lived until only a few years ago and it's so funny because my sister's family, every time he did something strange like that, they kind of go, "Whoa, what's about to happen?" You're going to use him to play the stock market or something. Yes, exactly.

But I've learned now that the animals are, they're really tuned in. I mean, I think a lot of that is to do with the fact that, you know, we've kind of like developed so much as a human race that we've kind of like forgotten how to communicate, other than you and I are talking now or we're using technology and stuff like that, whereas animals still communicate through vibration and the telepathy and all those different things and so, yeah.

Rick You know Rupert Sheldrake's book, Dogs that Know When Their Owners Are Coming Home? Have you ever heard of that? Toby No, I've not heard of that. Yeah, Rupert is a scientist over there in the UK and he did this whole carefully controlled study about dogs that know when their owners are coming home and he kind of threw a lot of randomness into it like changing the schedule and having the owner take a taxi so it wouldn't be the sound of the familiar car or whatever.

But long before the owner was or the owner's car was in earshot of the dog, it would run to the front door and just wait. And then sometimes he'd have the owner change plans entirely and decide not to come home and the dog would go back and sit on his bed, you know, okay, he's not coming home. But there's very strong evidence that the dog was kind of psychic and able to pick up on that stuff. Exactly. That's it. So, yeah, there we go. So we turned up at the station.

Eventually, it was a very cold February day, very ice cold.

there wasn't a cloud in the sky I remember and the train pulled into the station and I helped Anna onto the carriage, onto the car with her bags and everything and I gave her a hug and a kiss to say goodbye and as I did that we heard the buzzers going, the emergency buzzers for the doors to close and so Anna said come on you but you've got to get off I said yeah don't I'm going and I step back and as I did the bottom Corners of my coat got trapped in those automatic closing doors and yeah

You had like a big wool coat on or something. Yeah, it was absolutely like it was an old Sheepskin coat that I'd been given you know that it was like inherited it sort of thing Yeah, so it was a good quality one. So it's quite sick and there was no way it was gonna pull free You know, it was just in there was trapped you couldn't wriggle out of it That's why I was wondering when I first heard the story. Why can't you just like rip it open and wriggle?

Oh because because of the type it was but it would it been so old that it didn't have any sort of like Silky lining like we all have now in all our coats, you know It was just literally like the kind of like that if you like the sort of the fur on the inside of the sleeves And I yeah, so I just could not get it off and I knew I wouldn't be able to get it off In fact, there was only one other person on that platform

Seeing obvious partner his girlfriend or whatever and he shouted to me said get your coat off mate get your coat off Well, I thought there's no point, you know, it's not gonna come off. So yeah, yeah And so then the train starts moving and and the conductor couldn't see you and that's right. Yeah. Yeah

He was pulled into the wrong spot or something. That's it because it was one of these stations where it's it's not manned by a guard which I didn't realize, I mean I started yelling out for help, I thought a guard would come running forward and stuff and I thought that or the driver would hear me and look out of the window, but none of that happened. And as you say quite rightly, he pulled just, he'd come in a bit proud of the monitor so he couldn't see him.

Because it was such a bright, low sun, that also obscured the view on the monitor so he couldn't see me at all.

And it's strange because I remember the actual day when the engine started to rev.

I thought well, you know at that moment I thought this is it. I'm gonna die because I thought I can't pull it free And it's it's it's an interesting because it's almost like time stretched for me as well Because I had time to actually think through how I was gonna deal with this You know, obviously I was terrified but there was a sense of calm as well and I actually remember thinking to myself I'd seen this news footage about two or three weeks earlier where a small child had been thrown from a

burning apartment block you know from the third floor and had survived without any injuries and they put that down to the fact that infants don't tense up like we do as adults so I thought relax your body so as the train started pulling out it pulled out at great speed you know I felt every gear shift you don't realize how fast these trains pull out of stations until that happens and you're

attached to the outside. And I ran with it at first and then I lost my footing and I kind of hoped that, you know, the force of my body would pull it free but that didn't happen. Then I got sucked between, you know, the platform edge and the speeding train itself. Which was how wide? I mean, show with your hands how wide that was between the two. It's like that. It was just insane, you know, because it's a really narrow little thing.

a really really narrow, yeah because it took me a long time to be able to go back even to that station, you know I had lots of therapy to help me get back there but whenever I do get on a train now that's the most terrifying part you know, is just getting on and off and looking at that gap and thinking wow, how did I squeeze through there. I mean the gap couldn't be too wide because people have to step from the platform to the train and not fall in the gap.

I mean obviously there's a slight step, but yeah, I mean there was a massive rail police inquiry you know, because it was a big thing with it being a rail accident and it took them a year to do the whole thing.

I mean I remember they, because I was interviewed by them quite a lot, you know the police, and then they said to me that they'd taken the whole carriage down to London and they'd stripped it right down to the doors, down to the last rivet you know, and they actually said to me when they were concluding they said we just don't get it we've done all our maths all right our figures and you should not have survived this you know

you should be dead you know it's the amazing thing was that you were pulled under the train so you were actually under the train and somehow or other a wheel didn't run over you and cut you in half I know that is insane as well yeah I mean you must have just kind of swung in there and boom and then the wheels went by after you had gotten under. Exactly, yeah, you know, can you believe that? You know, the timing of it all, but that's exactly what

happened. I mean, because for me, when I went under, I was fully conscious and I put myself into this relaxed mode. In fact, my friend Anna, she ran through the train and looked through the window and she told me afterwards when I was in hospital, she said, "Look, this

I saw you go under. It's like you went under so gracefully and I explained why you know sounds really strange," she said, "but when I so that obviously helped as well, but When I did actually go in it was just I remember it was just being It's that was a strange moment as well because that felt like something that shifted I felt like suddenly the train had become this this huge mechanical beast that was

Determined to take me and I thought no you're not gonna take me and and it was like being thrown into you know I guess into a huge washing machine at full spin and I was just tossed around relentlessly. And somehow just at that point your coat ripped or pulled free finally from the door? Yes. Because otherwise you would have just been dragged along. Yeah, I heard the rip.

I heard the rip and I remember still now visually it almost looked like the actual, you know, the car of the train almost seemed to disappear into the sky, you know. Suddenly I was in darkness, you know, and into that violence, you know, so yeah. Yeah And then you had to lie there for a while while the train kept going over you and I remember you saying you you just had To like keep your head really low in case there was some little sharp thing poking down from the bottom of the train

I know again. What was really strange was I thought right what would you know? James Bond or Indiana Jones do now in those situations, you know

Because I've seen all those movies where those kind of things happen. They said he keep his face right down in the gravel So that's what I did and I remember that horrible smell of the oily gravel and keeping my face down But then the then the train moved on and it was just like wow, you know amazing yeah, so you so help came pretty quickly because people had seen this happen and next thing you know

there were medics there and they were getting you onto a stretcher and into an ambulance and all that stuff and You got to the hospital and your left arm was totally ripped open so you could see the bones and the veins and the nerves and everything and the bones were some of them broken and

Yeah, it was like, you know anatomy class. Yeah, exactly It was a complete mess even that was strange because that was one of the first things that I saw when I laid on the tracks obviously like Oh, I don't want to check my women's and it was just there's a part me was almost like kind of like fascinated thinking I remember saying, "Wow, that's me, the inside of my arm, I can see all the nerve endings and muscles and everything."

And it was really strange to think, you just don't think about what's going on beneath your skin, do you, ever. And so that was really strange seeing all that. But yeah, so I remember we got in the ambulance and the doctor in the back said, "Look, we've just come from a small hospital around the corner, that's why we're here so quick, but The one that's going to save your life is a 30-minute drive. Can you do that?" I said, "Yeah, let's go."

So we just kind of went down the highway at full pelt with a siren going. You must have put a tourniquet on or something so you wouldn't lose too much blood. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I knew I was losing a lot of blood when we got into the hospital because it was really apparent. I could hear, you know, there was a whole team of medics waiting there when we got into the emergency department, and I could hear fear in their voices.

I didn't know what they were saying. Of course, it was all numbers and science and stuff, but I thought this doesn't sound too good and yeah, and what was really surreal was because the the actual Consultant who was who ended up taking charge of me. He was there. He was really he was he kept me really calm You know and he said to me he said look he said we're gonna have to take you straight into to a theater pretty soon

He said, "But your family are here. Would you like to see them before you go in?" I was going, "Really?" I said, "Yeah, sure." So they came through, and I remember my sister said afterwards, she said, "There was just so much blood on the floor." So that's how much I was losing at that point. So that's where it was getting a bit sort of why they wanted to get me in there pretty quick. Yeah. Interesting. And so, I guess it was just before you went into surgery, you had this NDE, right?

That's right, yeah. Okay, so let's spend plenty of time talking about that. I mean, you can spend all the time you want talking about it, because that's a really central piece of the whole story. Sure, yeah. Well, basically, I left my body, you know, I left all the pain and the agony that I was in.

the drama of the hospital and the bright fluorescent light, you know, that was like sort of shining in my eyes and then suddenly I was transported, I guess is the one way to describe it, into what seemed to be like a small darkened space, a small darkened room, I figured at first, you know, and I thought, "What's going on? Where am I?" And I thought straight away, "This is death, you know, I I hadn't made it, I didn't make it, I'm dead. And I wasn't, the strange thing is, I didn't

resist it, I didn't fight it, you know, I didn't feel any sense of fear. I mean, I've since heard other people's accounts of near-death experiences and some people do try to resist it at first, because they've got young kids and stuff like that, they don't want to give all that up, you know, but

for me, it's not like I wanted to die, but it was just, I thought, I didn't have that sense of wanting to resist it. So I tried to get my bearings, you know, I kind of looked around me and I was looked through this darkness and then suddenly I was greeted by these pulsating colors of lights that were pulsating all around me slowly, you know. They were like sort of orbs of sort of yellows, you know, greens, ambers, golds, what have you, you know. They were lovely colors and but they were

really mellow and that made me feel safe. That made me feel that I was in a safe place and if this was death then it's not so bad you know. Incidentally you've painted pictures, paintings of some of these scenes so as we're talking here as you're speaking if there's a particular photo that you've sent me

that you'd like me to display just let me know. Yeah sure will do yeah okay okay Well, so as I laid out I just thought I wanted to check you know my body, my wounds and see how that was all looking and I so I kind of sat up and then I realized I was no longer laid out on the hospital trolley that I'd been on for so long there and instead I was now on this kind of like huge slate rock or like a granite rock, you know, I described it as being like a medieval altar or something

from Stonehenge or something like that, you know, and it felt surprisingly comfortable to be laid out on.

And that was also considering the fact that I realized I was no longer clothed, you know, I was just covered in this blue satin sort of silky textured material that felt like almost like a comfort blanket and and and all my my wounds were completely fine there wasn't even a single scratch or scar you know my body was back intact so that made me also feel reassured and good about things and so I decided to lay back on this granite rock and and and close my eyes for a while and as I

close my eyes I suddenly started to see light coming through my eyelids and so I opened my eyes and above me were like these three symmetrical grids of white light, pure bright white light that were slowly closing in towards me from above and I couldn't take my gaze away from this light even though it was like so bright normally that kind of light would be too intense to look at in this realm but there it was totally fine and the reason I couldn't stop looking at it

because I knew there was like a healing force, a healing energy coming from that light that was healing all the trauma that I'd just been through both physically you know and emotionally but mainly physically I felt like you know that light was just kind of like bathing me in this kind of energy of healing so closed my eyes and I trusted in this completely and I just laid there and

and then as this went on I suddenly felt the presence of somebody. I felt like somebody had walked into this small darkened room and so I lifted my head and opened my eyes and I can now suggest one of the paintings actually which is called "Greeting by the Being of Light".

So just ahead of my feet was this androgynous being that you can see in that painting there, wearing a very simple contemporary black t-shirt, nothing too ethereal as I figured I might be seeing, but just a simple black t-shirt with this pure white blonde hair and this skin that was sort of emanating light from within and this person was just gazing at me and smiling you know and I said out loud I said I know your face who are you I and I just

couldn't place it it's like I knew this person so well but I didn't know where from and this person just kept looking it back at me and smiling and saying nothing but with a reassuring smile so I just figured okay that's okay.

Then I started to realize that information was slowly coming through almost in a form of telepathy I guess if you like you know going back to that thing talking about animals you know that I started to get you know information that this person was the gatekeeper to wherever I was right now that this person was there to

guard me, my higher self if you like, you know, that's probably why I felt that sense of knowing. Higher self, guardian angel maybe? Exactly, that's it, yeah, yeah.

You know, people have different phrases, so yeah, all those different things that we talk about, you know, when people talk about praying and you know and saying, you know, they pray to So yeah, that's what my guardian angel appeared as being and was there to kind of reassure their guardian angels and they, and so me and to guide me through, you know, where I was about to go on this journey.

So I closed my eyes and again and laid back and then I suddenly started to feel the presence of more people if you like, you know, around me as you do, you know, if you're taking an afternoon nap, you know, somebody walks in the room, you know, someone's there, don't you? And that's what happens. So I open my eyes and either side of me were two female forms this time. There was a girl to my right and she was like dark skin, but it's quite

European looking with again with a very simple brown dress on. And whereas the girl to my left was more American Indian, Asian Indian, maybe South American, I don't know. And she was wearing this beautiful, ornate, sort of traditional dress. But they had their hands slowly hovering over the contours of my body without actually touching me. And their hands were just smoothly going over every single part of my body. And that felt great. I suddenly started to feel this

kind of this energy of love that was coming from their hands. And I realized

that they were going beyond just healing the physical wounds. They were healing like you know all the emotional scars that I carried over the years you know that we all carry you know the peeling off the layers of baggage you know we use that phrase in the UK I don't know if you do but you know that's like say oh that person's carrying a lot of baggage you know sure I certainly had been carrying a lot of baggage so all those layers of baggage were slowly being

taken off bit by bit and they were just getting right down to the pure essence of my soul. That was incredibly liberating and incredibly beautiful and calm. So yeah, so I lay down and this healing was just so deep that I didn't want it to stop and it didn't do. It continued. But then I started to think about my family. I started to wonder how they were were because I thought well clearly I must be dead that means

that they're going to die. I'd seen how distraught they'd all been you know my mother had been in tears and I thought they're gonna be really upset now so I wanted to check on them so I thought I'd hoist myself over the edge of this huge granite rock and see if I could see them and I thought I'd look down and I did look down but when I did look down I couldn't see them at all but what I saw was just what it made up for it really because it was just this beautiful sight

it was like it was a huge waterfall of stars let's say it's the size of Niagara or Victoria Falls you know it was really fast it was very huge and and I suddenly realized at this point that I'm no longer in this small darkened space that I thought I was in I'm actually in the universe itself you know and I'm witnessing, instead of billions of tons of water toppling over the edge, I'm seeing billions of

beautiful stars that were cascading over, shooting stars flying all over the place. And I was looking down, I was going, "Wow!" You know, it was just, I remember my eyes were fixing and I felt like I was

looking down into infinity from one galaxy into another. And I was seeing colors formed, you know, again all these different kind of colors I'd seen in the orbs but this time they were in there were nebulous and which was totally unfamiliar to me because I got no interest in in astronomy at all in my life at that point you know to me the universe was just like you know the black sky at night with the with the white stars yeah that's I didn't realize there were colors and gases but that's

what I was looking at so I was and I felt the sense of being moved and and and carried by the energy forward motion of the universe. So that was really, really strong. That was a really powerful thing to be feeling this, you know. And the interesting thing is that I thought, "Okay, well I can't see my family, but that's okay." Me, before, I would have been feeling traumatized. I would have been feeling guilt and shame and, "Oh no, I can't see them."

But all those kind of emotions were dispersed and I felt none of that at all, you know. I remember just thinking well, you know, I can't see them but

I'm sure I'm gonna see them at some point soon. And if I don't there they're gonna be They're gonna be enjoying all these wonders and all these delights that I'm now Looking at and feeling and going through so yeah so I pulled myself back over onto the rock and Laid there and I closed my eyes and continued to bathe in all this beautiful healing energy that was was surrounding me and Then it as Time went on although time didn't exist actually, but you know

Just to take you through it just the most incredible part was to really come at the end of this experience and and this was I as I laid there I suddenly felt this energy of Unconditional love that was coming from the hands of the healers was now intensified I felt like every single molecule of my body was starting to vibrate With this energy of love and I thought what's going on?

You know this really made me look up quick, you know, so I just kind of got up and looked just beyond The being of light that was still stood at my feet Was this some a ton of white light? that was coming through the universe coming through and It was surrounded by all these powerful flames it was like pure white light this But the powerful flames that were surrounding it as you can see there were were so strong and huge that

Normally, I would be kind of overwhelmed with fear and terror thinking what is going on now? Where am I being taken? but I wasn't at all. I was just, there was a sensation of like, again, complete trust in this, that this was all good, you know, because the vibration that was coming from that light was just so awe-inspiring. It was just like a sort of like, it was just filling

every single part of me with this sensation of love and feeling liberated. It was just so strong, you know, that I'd never felt that in my life before, you know, I'd felt no self-love, you know, no self-worth, you know, it was just like all that came together at that point.

And then I started to get more information coming through and what I was being told was that what I was looking at here and what I was feeling as this light was getting closer to me and the the vibrations started to get more intense was that what I was looking here was the source of all creation. You know, God if you like. This was like God, not in the form of what I'd been used to seeing in my textbooks at school, you know, the Michelangelo guy with a long beard or whatever faith you may have.

You know, there's normally some kind of human form attached to God, but no, this was God in this beautiful white tunnel of light, which again I think, I did another painting now which is called The Moment of Realization. So that's literally sort of emphasizing that actual moment where I've thought to myself, yeah, this is it, this is God, this is God, This is the absolute unconditional love coming from this point.

So that's why I was trying to paint myself, just hoisting myself up from the rock, covered in the blue satin sheet as you can see there. Just kind of like reaching out to this point of trust and knowing that this was the source of all creation. This was the source of all light and goodness.

And it was at that point that I just, I remember laughing out loud to myself in absolute joy, you know, and I kind of like almost like threw myself back down, you know, onto the rock and then I suddenly left this whole experience and came crashing back into my body, you know, I was just like back in the hospital and all the beautiful warmth and love that I'd been experiencing out there was now replaced with all the pain and the agony that came

rushing straight back through my body and that beautiful light was now replaced by the fluorescent strip and I remember the noise of the sound of the the hospital was like this kind of almost like this overkill of thrill you know in my ears it was like whoa you know I wanted to cover my ears and yeah so there I was back in my body but still almost attached to that

realm. You know a lot of people say to me you must have been instantly gutted, upset that you come back you know and it was all over for you, that experience. I said not at all because I felt like I was like still attached like it almost like an umbilical cord of all that wonderful energy was still coming right through me you know so yeah so there I was. Good so

was that basically the end of the NDE and then you're back in the hospital? Yes I'm back in the hospital that's it yeah and and then then you know that's it was at that point that I remember you know you know the consultant saying we're gonna we're gonna take you through now David and then I saw my friend Anna you know

sat at the back of the emergency department. I said hang on I just want to speak to Anna because I wanted to check she was okay because I knew that she'd been through all this with me you know the whole accident itself you know and so she came forward you know and I said you okay you know and she was just shaking her head from side to side she said I you know I thought you were dead they announced over the speakers at the rail station the next station

that they took it to that you were dead you know and so really they announced it that you were dead at the station yeah they said well they said there'd been a fatality they said they said trains are delayed because there's been a fatality at the previous station in Cambridge so so obviously that's what she assumed that it happened and she kind of she figured it as well when she saw me go under what's amazing is because I remember she told me that um you know

the train she ran through the train trying to find a guard to stop the train as well you know and because there was all these levers and all these different things I was all these different signs saying if you pull this you'll be fined if you pull that don't pull this don't pull that and obviously if you're in a state of shock you can't take all that in so she ran through the train and then she finally found the you know a guard on the train and then they stopped it in

the middle of the countryside and she said to me she said that when that train stopped she turned around to everyone on the carriage and said look my friend's just gone under the train that's why we stopped and could we say a prayer for him you know and she said it was amazing she said this woman stepped forward and said look I'm a Christian would you like me to take the prayers for you and she said yes that'd be great so she said this woman started praying and she said

everyone just laid down their their newspaper because they're all commuters you know, so they laid down their laptops and what-have-you and newspapers and everyone prayed and That was quite a special moment because I remember feeling

People's prayers. I remember feeling the energy of prayers. I really believe in that energy energy of prayer now because I felt it You know, I felt it, you know when it was coming through So yeah So, um, yeah There was back in the hospital and then I was whirled through into theatre and I was under

for about eight and a half hours I think it was. Yeah, so some people might be thinking, okay you must have had this NDE when you were given anesthesia, but no, you hadn't had the anesthesia yet, you were just still lying there on a gurney waiting to, you know, while they got

ready to operate on you. That's absolutely correct, yeah. I mean when I started writing my book, putting that together you know I got a friend who was she was a nurse and then she was she'd moved on from that she was lecturing in nursing and and so I said to her I said I'm putting this book together and I said I wonder if you you know I'd like to get some medical records she said well you can just write to the hospital and you can access them and you can just you pay for them and

but you'll get the whole lot I said great I'll do that so I got them all and And then I asked her to read through it because I wanted to cover all that as well, you know, because obviously I realized that understandably that people will have those thoughts there that all these things are brought on by, you know, sort of chemical things and drugs and stuff like that.

And she got back to me and I said, "Be honest as well, please don't," and so she said, "Yeah, would have been under nothing at all at the point that you actually had your near-death experience that would have altered what's happening with your mind and and stuff but I mean the other thing is as well is it's just that it's it's like um it's not like um it's not like a dream state and it's not like a hallucinative state either you know because dreams and hallucinative states

are they're kind of chaotic and and and they change as well you know the structure as you tell them over the years they change but for me that's never changed you know at all the the whole thing was like I describe it as being ultra real you know it was just incredibly very lucid experience you were not just in some dopey dreamy state yeah yeah interesting it's funny I mean you hear this with all the NDE experiences people trying to rationalize

and you know excuse them and because it threatens their paradigm you know I mean you know the predominant paradigm is when your body dies that's curtains, you know, you're out you're dead you don't exist anymore and When people come back with these stories that contradict that paradigm It makes the paradigm holders uncomfortable and they try to come up with

Reasons why you know, it wasn't a real experience. It was some kind of hallucinations Hallucination, you know brain was starved of oxygen or you were you're influenced by drugs and all that stuff. - Absolutely, I mean for me, I mean I've done a few debates and stuff like that, you know, on the radio, on the BBC and stuff like that, and where they've had scientists on and they've contacted me and they said "Look, we've got a scientist who's doing studies into NDEs, would you like to come on and

talk?" I said "Yeah, totally." So, you know, for science I wouldn't be talking to you now as well. You know the scientists I totally me science also saved me. I mean, without respect and but I also one thing I was saying that is that we do it's almost like we all need to have a scientific explanation for everything which is kind of insane because we can't you know. I started watching programs ever since I experienced on the universe now I love watching programs

about the universe, so they're science-based. And there was one guy I love called Professor Brian Cox, who's a UK guy. Yeah, and he's great. And so there was a program I saw only a couple of years back, and he was saying that he said that everyone thinks that as scientists, we've got all the answers to the universe. He said, "But we haven't." He said,

"We're only at the beginning of trying to understand the vastness of it all." You know, really really only just touching the surface of trying to understand all that. So I thought that's great that he said that because it's absolutely true you know. I mean we do other things in life that we don't question this I mean there's no scientific equation for for people falling in love you know for love

what makes us fall in love and all those different things there's no real. Some scientists would say oh yes it's hormones it's you know bio it's biological instinct, it's DNA, you know, they come up with reasons. Yeah, of course, yeah, but again I would argue that they're probably only touching the surface, so there's no sort of like, okay, because otherwise you'd have that in a bottle, wouldn't you? There was a song about that, it was called "Love Potion

Number Nine" back in the 60s. Okay, well there you go, so scientists would be saying, yeah, great, this is going to be the biggest-selling drug of all time isn't it? Love potion number nine. I'll spare you the torment of hearing me

sing it and my wife's torment if I were to sing it. But it's funny because on the one hand yes, many scientists, perhaps all if you really pinned them down, would acknowledge that yeah you know there's so much we don't know and you know we're just scratching the surface we've just begun

basically to understand the universe. On the other hand, maybe sometimes even the same people dig their heels in and say, "Nope, there couldn't be God, there couldn't be this other side, and when you're dead, you're dead." It's kind of paradoxical that they could have a foot in both camps like that. Yeah, well that's true, because Brian Cox, he doesn't believe there's a God who doesn't believe that, so which is interesting. But that's fine, you know, I mean, we've got a broad spectrum of

things that we can believe in, but I just feel that ultimately it's great to have a faith, you know, some kind of faith, because you know, it's like, you know, sometimes I might read online, you know, sometimes just a flippant comment that somebody I don't even know might just turn around and say, you know, whenever I read things like people saying, you know, you've got to live life to the full now because you only get one life, enjoy it while you can because it's lights out soon and all that

kind of thing. I think, wow, how could you possibly enjoy living your life like that? You know, it's just like without having some kind of faith that maybe this isn't the only journey that we're on, you know, that the journey continues, you know, which for me, certainly altered my mind state, you know, not just for myself but for loved ones. You know, I lost both my parents over the past five years and it helped me greatly

to, you know, be able to cope with the loss. Obviously, I, you know, I grieved the loss of them being with me and the love and things like that, but it really helped me to know that, you know, this wasn't the end of the story and when my mom passed you know I remember going into hospital because she'd had a minor heart attack so we were my sister and I were in the hospital the night before she passed and at that it was interesting because she

had Alzheimer's and that particular night we both said afterwards it's almost like the Alzheimer's wasn't there you know and we were communicating and all we did was just exchange and which we loved each other you know which is great. And then I got a call the next morning from the hospital and I thought, "Oh, this is not good." You know, it was about 7.30 a.m. and it was the doctor saying, "You better come in. Your mom's just had a massive heart attack." And I just thought,

"This is it," you know. And so, but I remember going in and they said, "Oh, do you want all of us to go in and say our farewells curtain in the hospital ward and stuff, you know, so and I remember turning around to my mom, you know, who's behind the I said to my mom and I said, "Well, mom, you're gonna enjoy where you're going now, you're gonna love it, it's gonna be great!" you know, and that's how I felt, you know,

rather than feeling "No!" you know, so that was really lovely. Yeah, there used to be a beer commercial which was something like, "You only go around once in this life, so grab all the gusto you can get." Exactly, yeah, that's the kind of thing, isn't it? You think, "Oh, man, that's not a way to live at all." It's basically like going

through life in first gear, you know? Yeah, it's very discouraging because obviously as you get older, you begin to lose your ability to enjoy all these things that define your life and so, you know, it just gets more and more depressing. But if you realize, as you've just been describing, that death is not an end, it's an end to a chapter in a very big book. Yes, exactly. It's just whatever your faith is. It's interesting

actually because both my parents were Christian and I talked to them. I said, "Does it ever get discussed, the afterlife, about what happens to us all afterwards?" And they said, "No, it's just only with Christ." Christ was the only person they talk about who came back, rose from the dead and that's it. And I found that kind of like, I thought, wow, that's

strange. I thought, you know, the fact that there's a faith there, I always thought that it would be interesting to explore that at least, you know, which it was. Well of course they have beliefs, you know, like either you're going to hell for eternity or you're going to heaven for eternity and all this. I was listening to a podcast the other day called Closer to Truth, which is one of my favorite podcasts, and the guy was

interviewing these people from different religions about their beliefs of the afterlife. And he was interviewing this Muslim guy, and he was going into this elaborate description of all the different things that are supposed to happen, and where you go, and what happens to your body, and all kinds of stuff which seemed to me to be extremely speculative. And at the end, the interviewer said, "Well, this is amazing what the human mind can conjure

and the guy said, "No, no, no, we believe this. This is the truth." But then he went on to interview a whole bunch of other people who had different truths. So, you know, belief doesn't really cut it. But you and people like you have had experience, which makes it more than a belief.

Yeah. Well, that's, yeah, that's just, I hope so. You know, I hope it does, you know, encourage people because for me that's where it's at, it's not like me trying to say "hey I had this amazing experience you gotta hear it" you know it's more like if I can at least help somebody get past that fear of death and for example you know I didn't realize how so many people do have a fear of death, you know young people as well, a lot of people suppress it as well though

in all fairness I think a lot of people don't even want to think about death, they they don't want to think about what's happening afterwards, you know, and I can see, I've seen that untangle in people when they've lost their loved ones because there's, you know, they're fearing that they don't know where, what's gonna happen to them now, is that it, you know, are they gonna end up, you know, just floating around in some void or all those different things that might be

going through their minds, you know, rather than really exploring it. And I just feel that we just don't do that in Western civilization anyway, we don't explore death and I think that it's not what we should be getting up talking about it every day after our morning coffee but I think it's good to at least embrace it and talk about it like we are now you know and talk about death you know because it absolutely helps because we prepare for everything else in life we prepare

for birth, marriage, even taking our driving lessons and passing our test all prepare for the one thing that's gonna come to us all which is those different things but we don't

the end of this stage of the journey. You know that Buddhist saying "Die before you die" and what they're saying actually and Hindus have similar comments is that through certain spiritual practices you can transcend your individuality which is a kind of a mini death and obviously your body is not in any danger, but you get to peep into the universal ground of existence, which is what someone might experience when they physically die, but then

you come back to life and you can integrate that experience so that you're kind of in a liberated state, a state of freedom in the midst of living a normal life in the world. Absolutely, well that's it, you know, this is just, it can change your mindset. If you've got this heavy weight that you're denying, which is like what's gonna happen not only to me but to my loved ones, if you can help to release that, I think it changes your whole outlook on life. It has done with me because I certainly

didn't even think about it. You know, death didn't even come into my equation. All I was thinking of was like, you know, where's the next paycheck coming from, you know, where's the next great relationship going to come from, and all these different things are all very linear. My life was linear before, you know, so there was no sort of light sort of peaks and troughs or whatever. So let's shift into the whole discussion about your art and your music and that kind of thing.

And incidentally, another point to mention here is that at the end of this interview will be playing a section of one of David's symphonies and while that's playing we'll show a number of his paintings including some that we haven't shown so far in this video. So when did you first feel an impulse to paint something?

It was pretty much as soon as I came around from the anaesthetic. The hospital had given me in my own room because of the severity of the accident and stuff and I remember I was late that it was like about 2 a.m. or what have you and I was just kind of like in this small darkened room but there is a hospital room and I just got this little R2D2 machine bleeping next to me and I thought yeah I was obviously I was just kind of like processing what had happened with the

accident, you know, going on the train is a huge thing, but also I was more fixated

on this whole experience that I've had, the spiritual experience, you know, the near-death experience itself, which I didn't know anything about near-death experiences, so I didn't know what happened and I thought, "Is it just me that this has happened to?" and I thought, "This is far too important to not be

able to share this." So I knew I... - You started telling nurses and people about it? - Yeah, yeah, I were not nurses straight away, no I wanted to tell my loved ones to start off with because you know I wanted to honor them with that. But I took my time you know it took me a while to tell my parents because as I said with them being Christians I think I wanted them to get it and I thought they might not get it because it might sort of jar with their

faith but they did, they got it. In fact what was really strange was when I and then they looked and then they turned around and my mom said we knew and I said you knew? did tell my parents that they listened

How did you, what do you mean you knew mom? And she said well, she said well you know it's just you're um we we come into this this hospital we walk into this room you're surrounded by the nurses and you've got all these tubes and wires coming out of you she said but but you're just kind of glowing and you're just kind of like giving out to others whereas they're supposed to be giving to you

And they saw this shift in me, which is obviously a massive shift because they understood how I was struggling, you know With my life before that point, you know, what a dark place I was in so for them it was it was Maybe their faith helped them Understand it. But yeah, so so yeah going back to the the idea of the painting was I initially I thought I I can't afford to forget all this, you know, I might forget it and I it might I want to make sure that I remember everything and I thought

I'm gonna do a painting. I'm gonna do something like I'd never done anything like this before I wanted to do something like really huge like a big like all these sort of renaissance paintings, you know There's very dramatic scenes of the bible that you see, you know that michelangelo did and and uh, Raphael and stuff like that I wanted to get something like that and it had to be big to get the story across

Dramatically enough that it warranted and so I remember my sister coming in to visit me the first night and she was Chatting and she said very quietly as she was about to leave. She said is there anything I can get you? I said yeah, can you get me like a small sketch pad and a pencil and she was going?

Really? I said yeah, really it says she said okay So she bought that in and the nurses propped me up in in the bed Yeah I managed to start sketching what I was gonna do in the very first painting which was trying to sort of get everything in into that into one painting and I've still got that sketch, but I I'm not even gonna attempt to show you now because it's just so faint because I'm so weak But it was just the beginnings of what was going to be, you know, my very first painting

So when I got out of hospital once I started getting physical strength up enough to be able to start painting I I got that canvas and it was leaning against the wall for a long time because you know, I was kind of like

Didn't want to mess this up. I wanted to get this right. So I was kept putting it off But um, yeah some friends of my sister was around one day and then they came in and they said oh You still got that canvas against the wall then I said, yeah, I said well, I can't pay I can't start in here There's not enough light and stuff and they said well, that's no excuse because they ran a health center and they said we're closing for a week

For a refurbishment, so we've got a studio space going that you can use so I said great So they took the canvas down there and I went in and I started painting, you know I started the first bits bravely putting the paint on that on that canvas and It was amazing because it started to come together so well

Immediately and I felt like I was being helped. I felt like this energy was still coming through Again from that realm that was helping me to produce something that I'd never produced in my whole life was which was a Painting yeah, but but I'm sort of like Almost like get flesh tones and used be brave with colors rather than just say, okay This is before I would have just said right this person's flesh is that color. Do you just need one color?

I thought no just throw some greens and blues and yeah, throw them all in there and it started to come alive so I became You know, I got towards the end of the week and I said there's no way I'm gonna get this finished and I said that's fine Then my they my sister's friend said we'll just move you around from studio to studio and you can stay here You know, so that was great and I ended up staying there for two years and they didn't charge me

at all. So that was amazing and I became known as the artist in the attic, you know, because I was up in the lofts, you know, doing all this, putting these paintings together. So did you take any art lessons during this time or you just? No, no, no, you know, the art lessons were coming from within, you know, I used to say I was channeling, I was channeling ideas through, but what I'm realizing now was basically, it's

more that I was allowing myself to go into a state of presence basically. I was completely present when I was doing all this artwork and it was also helping me to heal from the accidents as well. It was a great healing power as well. So I took no lessons at all whatsoever and I just improved with with each painting that I did and became more and more brave.

And that's cool because you mastered perspective depth, you know and Anatomical proportions that are correct and all that kind of stuff which People study in art school to get the hang of I know Absolutely, that's it. That's what's remarkable. So it's just you know, I mean obviously I became more aware

I would study people myself. I would study how people held themselves I was study the fact that you know, not everyone has the same body language that some people have this that and the other and and Yeah, try to sort of like Try to yeah people would start to say to me Oh, yeah, when you when you're painting people that you you're kind of like it's almost like you're getting

Behind you're bringing people alive. You're giving people a sense of Presence and I didn't really know realize I was doing that So it wasn't something I was conscious of but that's probably why it was it was coming together for me I was also encouraged as well by the fact that These people who would come in for yoga and Pilates sessions were coming up They all wanted to see how the paintings were coming on You know that and so I get all that feedback from them and and not only that

People would ask me what the paintings were about So that was my kind of like first sort of you know Getting my feet to start telling other people that I didn't know Those kind of people will be open to that kind of thing, you know Well, they were pretty cool dinner. It was kind of yoga people. Oh, yeah, and you're that's experience. No problem. Yeah

Exactly. That's it. Yeah, and in fact, I Wanted to go back When I was getting well, I said to my sister I want to try and find that that spiritualist church So I went to where so where where the medium was predicting what was gonna happen to me because I wanted to go back there and I said because at that point I didn't really realize what was going on, you know, and I went along and I went I went to their one of their meetings, you know

And and they turned around and said they told me you but you had a near-death experience. I said, okay, that's what it is you know and So that was and then there was some woman that you started seeing regularly there who was a healer or something Was that before or after your NDE? That was that was after the end. Yeah my first visit to the church Having coffee afterwards and We all sat around and then the German lady came over to me called Maria Who's one of the spiritual healers at that church?

And she said oh, we don't normally invite people along with people come over there on a court But you look you know pretty banged up. Yeah, I got all this stuff holding me together You know and he said we do spiritual healing would you would you be interested? I said, yeah, that sounds great So so I started going for spiritual healing which was amazing, you know, because it just kind of like that really

That not only helped me physically but emotionally, you know a lot. Yeah, so that was great. So that's how that came about so you're painting to this day and continue to paint and then the music thing started. You started having

themes of music in your head and had to figure out what to do with them. That's right. Yeah, and again, what this sprung from because some of the spiritual healers, you'd have two or three healers working on you if you like and some of them would be clairvoyant and they just give a few little messages at the end. They'd say I saw like a blue light coming through your heart chakra or whatever, you know.

And then I started to see this theme that was being repetitive whether one of them would say oh, you know The German lady said yeah, why am I seeing? Beethoven Wagner and singer and then another one said I saw a Violin laid across your chest and then then one of them turned to me and said oh They're telling me when I said they're telling me either my guides or her guides are telling me that you're gonna write a

Piece of music about your experience. I went great. So I went home and I thought it was gonna be a song, you know I just got this old Synthesizer at the loft or whatever, you know And it was a beaten old thing and then I I borrowed a cassette recorder off my dad that he had in his garage

you know and so I just that's all I had and I started to Try and write this song and that wasn't coming together like the paintings I thought this isn't happening in the same way and then one afternoon. I was just kind of like Watching this old movie on the TV and I was watching it and I just kind of playing around I've got this keyboard out and then suddenly this little chord progression Happened and I thought oh, I like that. That sounds really good

So I recorded it on the cassette and I started to develop it. I thought This is not meant to be a song. It's meant to be It's something played by an orchestra. Yeah, and so I thought that's where I'm taking it and I had that same sense of light

Nothing was gonna stop me just like the paintings. I thought let's go, you know so I started to develop that on this little cheap old synthesizer, you know and One of the people who used to come in and have yoga Sessions was she played cello in the local orchestra and we became friends She was quite spiritual and we used to go for coffee. So I started telling her about this piece of music and she

Laughed I said, oh, maybe we could perform it, you know, and I thought wow. Yeah, why not? You know, that'd be great. So So I just I got in touch with my brother and he said look you can't just like hand back Cassettes to an orchestra and say here's all the parts, you know And your brother was a member of that orchestra also playing French horn. Yeah, not in that orchestra. No, he was a

orchestra. He lived down in London, so he was down there. So he said, "You'll need music score." And I said, "Well, I can't write music. I can't even read music." You're an old punk rocker, right? That was the extent of your musical experience. All I could do was thrash out three chords just about on a guitar. So he said to me, "Listen, I'm going to give you an old computer of mine," and he said, "and then I'm going to give you this app."

And he said when you play the keyboard, I'm gonna give you the keyboard. I'm gonna give you that it will transfer suppose those notes that you're playing into a musical format, you know, and And they said give it back to me and then I'll look through it, you know I said great and so we did that together and then I printed off the parts and and I told them the orchestra

This is where I was at. They said well, it's me for coffee So I met up with my friend and also with a conductor and a few other people and they looked at the score and I was Amazed because I thought they'd want to hear what I'd done and they could tell just by reading music What it was gonna sound like I was shocked I said you don't even want to hear what I've done on the cassette. I said no no we can get it from here

This is really good. So they said we'll perform it. So I said fantastic. That's great It was quite a story actually because I think they only practiced it once before the performance, but or maybe twice

I don't know but they were so good that they could just do that. They were all professional level musicians and Then you had this debut performance of your symphony Which is three movements by that time a full symphony you had to write the lines of music for each Separate thing right for the strings for the horns for the absolute caution everything, you know I started realized just like with the paintings that there was more textures and just

violins. I used to think classical music was just violins and I started to realize no, there's more instruments that I can use and in fact it was my brother said that. He said, "Why don't you start using, you said you've just got strings, you've got cellos and violins, you start using other stuff." And I was going like, "What?" And he said, "Well, you know, like French horn for starters." I was going, "I've already got French horn in there actually

because you play it." And then I started throwing in other instruments and then I started to realize it was giving this piece of music more dimension, more color, you know, and it was starting to come

alive even more. The only reason I could do this was because the synthesizer had like very cheap synthetic sounds of the trumpet or whatever you know so I could pretty much roughly hear that was going to come together but the rehearsal itself that was mind-blowing you know because I turned up to the first rehearsal I was incredibly nervous because I thought is this just gonna like come tumbling down yeah like a block of bricks or is it gonna come

together so I had faith but at the same time I was nervous because I knew nothing about all this and I walked in and also the orchestra you know they were lovely people but it's quite a sort of foreboding setup you know you know they don't really give much away classical musicians so they don't turn around say this is great you know it's not it's like I know so I didn't know what to think so I walked in and the conductor said all the composers here and I was

going no it's me I'm not a composer and he said he said David would you like to come forward and say a few words and I said no no it's fine you just go ahead head. He said come on. So I stepped up and and I started telling them what it was about. I talked about the near-death experience and people were asking me loads of questions. I thought this is great. People were really keen to know

what it was about and that helped me to have faith. So I went and sat down and when the baton came down on those opening chords it was like hearing that cheap little Spanish synthesizer that I got suddenly becoming into this massive three-dimensional stereo. You know it was like it was huge and it was beautiful. Yeah, and that was just a rehearsal then so when you had finally the actual concert in some really nice concert hall and everybody's all dressed

Up, and it was a packed hall. That was almost like the climax of your book You know it was towards the end of the book where you described that It would be nice if there had been a video of that No, there wasn't a video of it, but there's a recording of it So yes, that's why I got so just as a reminder for people listening I'm gonna play one of the movements of the symphony at the end of this video and show a bunch of pictures

Anything more you want to say about the concert or we want to move on some other points? Yeah, I mean, yeah I mean basically I mean the the concert itself I'd started to realize there's a lot of synchronicity was happening in my life You know like the people of the oak center and then meeting the cellist and not only that I mean the reason the concert sold out basically was because the orchestra said oh Would you mind saying a few words to the local press about your piece?

I said yes sure so I did do and then and the Cambridge Evening News said hey You're the guy went under the train on you and I said yeah, cuz it was covered a lot You know in Cambridge and they said oh this is going on the front page I was going fantastic and then after that There's more people phoning me up and then the BBC got in touch and they said like they'd like to come down Do a small feature on the news it did so there's a short clip from that somewhere

But it wasn't the whole thing unfortunate So that was great and that meant that it sold out two weeks in advance and there was no sense of ego about this

It wasn't like a great big seller concert. I was just thinking great. There's gonna be more people coming along and Experiencing hopefully what I went through themselves and stuff and there were there were so many people coming up just before the concert and after Saying they'd had similar experiences all these different things There were a lot of people coming forward who wanted to share what the emotion was and the whole atmosphere that night was just like beautiful

When the orchestra did play I remember I was sat with my family We were given the front row and we all sat there and I enjoyed

Listening to it. I wasn't nervous. I just sat back and it actually enjoyed my symphony in full for the first time Yeah as if I was a punter in the audience and then right at the end there was a tremendous applause and my mom was in tears again but this time there were tears of joy and she was hugging me and she said David that was just so beautiful they never heard it and I said thanks mom and then my sister said David

look behind you saying what and I looked and it was like a standing ovation so I thought this is incredible so again the atmosphere the energy was just so tremendous that I just thought I could not fault this I couldn't swap it it was It was just really beautiful. It kind of reminds me of Beethoven's 9th. He was deaf by the time he composed that. And when it was performed, he was in the front row. And he obviously couldn't hear his own composition.

And then somebody had to turn him around to show him at the end that the audience was going wild. Yeah, exactly. Obviously, I wasn't expecting that. I didn't know about standing ovations. I didn't even know that that would happen. I didn't realize it would. So it was just great. It was just it just so to me it just meant yes, everyone got it. Everyone was like Transposed I was hopefully for for however long that it was being performed for and and stuff

So yeah, so I was hoping that people got to you know, naturally taking away with it also. Yeah, so it's really cool

And so that was what 15 18 years ago that yeah. Yes That was yeah And then from that one onwards, I got sort of like, you know, people would come forward, I got commissioned straight away to do another piece and then one of the clarinet members in that orchestra turned around and said, "Look, I'm part of this group called the Cambridge Clarinet Choir, we'd like to also commission you to write a piece for us." I said, "Yeah, great." Again, that was all new to me, I went along to meet them all.

And I said well, you know What tell me more about your clarinet sister by that and they said well, yeah There's I just thought there's one clarinet and that's it and said no no, there's about six different sizes, you know And so, you know, there's a bass clarinet, which is like about six foot in length You know this just like that They got the guy to blow one note on it and it was just like a you know ship coming into it's a hobo It's just like wow, you know

So so I went away and just that was a whole new sketch pad if you like a whole new sort of canvas for me to work with and And I was they wanted me to write something as well That was they said we we heard that you wrote something really beautiful about your near-death experience We'd like you to do something similar for us. I said great. Yeah, I'd love to so that was another piece Cool, so have you been able to support yourself financially through this music and painting? Yeah. Yeah

I mean, it's just I mean the books being really good actually that that's been great, you know, but it's it. Yes, I have yeah especially, you know the commissions from from from the music are really good when they come in, but obviously You know, they're not like coming in every other month or what have you whereas with the artworks that that's more more Yes, I guess you create things that actually sell them to people and they keep them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly

Yeah, I'll get commissions and stuff like that. So so I'll do stuff. I do a lot of work this that still that is I mean, I just I got commissioned by a spiritualist church recently to do a painting for them and Which is now hanging on the in the wall in their church and that was great that was really that was that was a lovely one to do because it was a nice big painting that that really owned at the wall and and and you know, that was special to me because it meant that it was something that I

Was that I I felt I could give back, you know as well as being commissioned for it So that was good, but not all my work is is based around spirituality What you know, there's also you know, I'll get other Work that comes in as well, you know, maybe even portraits and stuff like that, which is completely different which is fine No, yeah, do you feel? Do you still feel the flow of inspiration?

related to your near-death experience, like it opened up some portal and you keep getting creative juices flowing from that experience? Absolutely, yeah. That's it, yeah. You know, I just, you know, because I work a lot. Even if I'm not working on any commissions, I work, that's when I'm doing a lot of work based on my spiritual. So I'm working on one at the moment, which is literally all about trusting in the energy

of the universe, you know, because I'm starting to realize just how much going back to animals, you know, that we've lost that as well, we've lost that, you know, that kind of common connection with the universal pool, you

know. I started to realize, I'd look out my window, I'd see birds migrating every year, and I used to think to myself, "How come they fly off to the other side of the world and they come back?" And I noticed, I started to would come back a year later and they would land on exactly the same spot on a meadow notice that there were the same birds that outside my window.

And I think, well, they travelled like, you know, thousands of miles, but they still managed to come back to this particular point. And it's incredible that, you know, the universe is telling them what to do. The universe is telling them when it's time to migrate and what have you. So yeah, so my latest painting that I'm working on now is all about trusting in the energy of the universe.

Nice do you ever have dry spells the way writers have writers block? Oh Yeah, I mean, yeah that happens, you know, I mean there's times when when something's just not coming together You know, I start on it and I come back think no this one's not working. So I just tend to

Not get frustrated. I just park it, you know Just put it on one side and then come back to it and then it's almost like I can come back as if I haven't actually Started creating it myself, you know, I'm coming back as if to say, you know, you know what you're doing wrong there This is all the perspectives wrong. That guy shouldn't be over there. It's like ah, okay, that's why it's so, you know, I'm better at being

More objective, you know wants to take a break from from from one particular thing. Yeah Did your NDE inspire you to start some kind of regular spiritual practice some meditation or something like that? Yeah Aside from I mean art can be a spiritual practice, but you know traditional spiritual practice of some sort well Spiritual healing is something that I kept up and

Healing others or being healed no no being healed. Yeah, I think because I just I'm not sure yeah, I I did have some, I actually had a few lessons on giving spiritual healing and I haven't taken that any further because it's taken very seriously and you have to have papers and qualifications to be able to start healing people, which is good. But I tend to, for me going for spiritual healing is not just going to be healed physically and emotionally.

It's the nearest thing I would say to coming to that realm is going into spiritual healing because the actual energy in that room and that space is just so beautiful. It's incredible. And just the connection between... I'd always turn around to the healers and say, "Oh, you're a brilliant healer. Thank you so much." And every one of them would say, "No, no, I'm not a brilliant healer. The healing's coming through me." pretty much say, "Look, I'm just conducting the energy through," and stuff.

But then I started to realize that it's almost like a circular motion as well, that we're kind of all--because we always chat for a few moments afterwards and stuff, and so I started to realize that there is, there's an energy that's coming through them that they're conducting. But whatever, it's also, they're feeling something from themselves as well. So spiritual healing is something that is probably the only thing that I can think of that I really take part in.

But meditation, when I'm at home, I meditate a lot. That's really good. And have you ever had any more kind of what we might call flashy experiences like your near-death experience was where you sort of really get out there and there's some profound cognition or unbounded awareness or tremendous bliss or anything like that?

Yeah, I guess it's strange, you know, because I feel like it's never really gone away. I mean, I've never really had moments where it's kind of like where I start to sort of, I'm kind of blessed. I guess it's because I'm creating still, you know, with my art and my music that enables

me to still explore things. I guess if I had to go back to say a regular 9-5 job, I guess there's a part of me that probably would find it hard just to keep going back and exploring it, but because of the fact that it's there all the time, it seems to have stayed with

me. Obviously there are moments where I feel there are spiritual moments that I feel stronger than others but to me it's also it's all about the way I look at my experiences it was also it was complete compared to how my life was before as I pointed out you know it was a spiritual awakening and and I think a spiritual awakening just doesn't just you don't reach a point of spiritual awakening it it continues, you know what I mean? It's not like a point where you say, you know, I'm gonna keep keep

working and working at this until I become spiritually enlightened and then I'll be okay. That doesn't, you know, that's not the way to look at it. So I just, for me anyway, so I just keep sort of practicing, you know, just believing in it and have your faith, yeah. I have a similar attitude. I've said that a million times on this show, that there is no such a thing as a final resting place beyond which there could be no further growth, which is kind of… I kind of don't

like the word enlightenment because it implies finality, you know? But we all keep growing. And so that's what I've gathered, that this NDE you had was just a kickstart. And since then the motor keeps running, you keep evolving, keep growing in various dimensions and ways. Exactly, that's it. I just feel that it's important just for all of us to never stop learning, you know. The more you open yourself up to

learning, you know, the more things will come to you, you know. All these different things will naturally come if you open yourself up and you want, you ask for those things, as long as they're coming from the right place that is, you get what I mean? And then I think that's like, I mean I know that manifestation has been a big word over the past few years, a lot of people have talked about and people are looking for, you know, manifestation and I do

actually believe in manifestation. I think this is probably what I'm trying to say, you know, that I think if you're coming from the right place, then manifestation will start to evolve. If you're turning around saying "no, you know, I just want to get out there and get the fastest car and get and all these different things" then it's not necessarily going to work. So yeah, it's

just presence as well. Because the one thing I remember, the big takeaway from that ND was that I realized when I was in that space that as I say there was no sense of time I remember noticing that and I remember thinking to myself at that point that I'd spent the whole of my life either thinking about the past past mistakes or past opportunities or thinking about the future thinking was where's my life gonna go you know what

am I gonna do is such a mess and I never ever thought about the present moment

you know, and when but whereas when I was in that realm the present moment was the only thing that existed, you know, they've just that And that is so important and that's something that I'm that I'm starting to discover There's more and more people started to talk about that as well talking about the present moment Which is great because I think it's important, you know, sure. I mean that's Eckhart Tolle's big theme right the power of now

Yes, exactly. Yeah, so yeah, I came across him recently. He's amazing. Yeah Yeah. I still haven't managed to snag him for an interview, maybe one of these days. Is there anything else that comes to mind that we haven't talked about that you want to get out there before we conclude? You've covered a lot, haven't we? So I'm sure...

Oh, on the manifestation point, there was one thing I just remembered, which is that One spiritual teacher always, with regard to manifestation, always used to say, "Deserve, then desire." You know, not just, "I want the sports car," but deserve. Increase your deserving ability. And if you do that, you might find that the sports car is not what you really want. There might be something more meaningful than that. Yeah, exactly. I totally agree with you.

it. You know, I find that, you know, just an item of clothing, you know, it's just kind of like, there are times when you think, "I'd love to go out and get myself a really nice expensive suit or what have you." And I know me, when I've done that, I get that expensive suit and then it just kind of stays hung in the wardrobe for special occasions and stuff like that. Then I tend to enjoy wearing the beaten old cheap clothes and stuff that I've been painting and

Decorating it and I think I see I really prefer these clothes. You know, they're me they're kind of like that they're more sort of like the the authentic True me, you know, and so that's the other thing that I think is really important to to focus on it is looking for things that are That reflect your authentic true self, you know, I had no idea that I could Developed, you know myself with my there you go Yeah

that's a good thing for me I would be able to talk about because as I point out at the beginning of the interview was that When I was at school the way I was written off was so badly, you know that as a no-hoper And it's good to try and sort of like make sure that you let go of some of those That the blueprint if you like that's been stamped on you by usually by By adults teachers or what have you who really got that much time to spend to be able to really focus on you

So but that but it hurts and it stays so it's just kind of letting go of that in finding You know self a bit of self-love is the start and then some self-worth will follow and when you find that self-worth That's when you start to realize You're a true authentic Self, you know that can come through like like I did with my music and art that wouldn't have happened Otherwise if I'd never had that NDE I would not have gone down that road of exploring

Music and art at all, you know, so it's just it doesn't have to be musical I didn't have to be creative. You know, you might just turn around

I mean the pandemic was a fine example of that wasn't it? You know when that happened at first I actually thought this is felt like a huge awakening a spiritual awakening for the world because People were turning around putting stuff off on social media saying hey, it's great not going into work I'm walking down the street with my kids and we're listening to the birdsong and we're looking at trees and I thought wow

This is it. This is what we need. I know there was obviously the downside of The whole pandemic but but that didn't last then suddenly people were saying I'm getting sick and tired of this I need to get back to work. I mean when are we getting back to normality? And I thought no don't don't blow this beautiful opportunity, you know, enjoy Enjoy the moment enjoy this freedom of of not aspiring

Yeah, it was definitely a bit of a reset. In fact, for a long time, I think they're starting to, companies are starting to clamp down again, but for a long time there was just all this empty office space and it was a real problem for the owners of the buildings because nobody wanted to work in the office anymore, they all wanted to work at home. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Another thought that popped up based upon the things you've been saying is, you know, you're saying, I mean, people listen to these stories about NDEs and they think, "Well, I'd love to have that kind of experience," but I don't particularly want to get dragged under a train or have cancer or get shot or all these ways in which people have NDEs. But as Jesus said,

"Seek and ye shall find, knock and the door shall be opened." So without having to go through anything traumatic or life-threatening, you can just begin to stir up your desire for this, knowing that there is something more, and take some action steps, some practice, some reading, something which attracts you. And one thing leads to the next. You do begin to find, and the door begins to open. Absolutely, that's how I see it. Then synchronicity starts to happen as well.

You know for all of us that's then suddenly you know things that's because it's meant to happen. You know somebody will suddenly come across your pathway it's like saying hey you know I can I could help you out with this. It's like great you know then it will start to come together you know.

I was speaking to a friend of mine who was a singer and songwriter and a band and he was just talking about you know the fact that you know he was like he said when he started off he said that he said that they didn't he said yeah they they wanted to make money because like myself you know they thought there's no other way of doing it but but he said that they just focus so hard on just the music rather than thinking well they weren't thinking about

You know getting a record deal or or getting you know, sending lots of lots of records I just wanted to focus on the music itself and he said to me said we found that once we've Focused on that music that the songs started to come together Then suddenly the record companies were knocking on their door saying hey, you know We want to offer you a deal and stuff and so that's how it works. I really believe that so so yeah Yeah Good

All right, well, thanks David. So, um what we're gonna do next in a minute is I'm gonna play we're gonna play Your symphony or part of your symphony and show a bunch of pictures on the screen while that plays So people should stay tuned for that. Yeah

And you do have a website. I'll be linking to that from your page on batgap.com Other than that, I don't think you're out there as a spiritual teacher giving talks and all that business Although I imagine you'd be open to it if somebody wanted you to come give a talk Yeah, yeah, I've done some talks. Yeah for sure. Yeah, so people could invite you to do that. Absolutely. Yeah, you don't do individual

Consultations with people I don't imagine I don't do individual consultations. No, I mean, I've just done stuff You know where I've been invited to go along to different they're normally sort of white summits and things like that you know, where they're not other people who've had end use. They're more people who are end-of-life doers and stuff like that. I've done a few with them, you know, where I've gone out and

we've talked about dealing with death. And so, you know, my story kind of has been really useful from that point of view, yeah. It's very useful. And like we said earlier, you know that saying, "Life sucks, then you

die"? That's popular over here, I don't know about over there. I have a variation on that That I came up with which is that life may or may not suck and then you appear to die, but you really don't Some people already they're already walking dead are there just by not living life not really giving themselves an option to move on

Live life and live long and prosper. That's a There was loads of French films that used to come out They've got great titles there is and I saw one or actually I think it might have been a German film It was on TV recently and it was called fear eats the soul before. Yeah, that's great. That's a great title Do you know I mean fear eats the soul? Yeah, it's a soul And that's what a lot of people tend to get themselves into

Yes, I'm saying fear is an acronym for false evidence appearing real. No That's great

All right. Well, thanks everybody and thanks to you David now, let's listen to that music and see some nice photos photos of paintings See you for the next one Thank you [MUSIC PLAYING] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] 3Lz+3T 10.10 (1.10) 3F 5.83 x (1.00) CCoSp4 3.50 (1.00) [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] 3Lz+3T 10.10 (1.10) 3F 5.83 x (1.00) CCoSp4 3.50 (1.00) [Music] [Music] [MUSIC] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music]

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

[Music]

Thank you. [MUSIC PLAYING]