727. Diane Hennacy Powell 2nd Interview

level which kind of is beyond all those and is just pure silence. But perhaps, you know,

babies are already functioning at that third level, the sort of pre... no words in the mind, but impulses that convey, that contain meaning, and they can perhaps resonate with that level of the parent's mind. Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's what I'm suggesting. Yeah. Because if you think about it, I mean, it's a more modern sort of, it's a more modern sort of aspect of parenting a child that we sit down with them and read and, you know,

point to pictures with them and try to help them to develop their language. I mean, you know, historically children would just, you know, they'd be in the family and people would be doing their business and the child is just picking up words. Interesting. So, looping back to the autistic kids, I guess maybe you're saying that although their verbal abilities never developed or got stymied at some point and then disappeared, their... The kind of...

To speak a totally different language than one that they've been raised around. Interesting question. Never developed, remained active or, you know, they remain capable of functioning. I'm just basically repeating what we've already described, but I'm trying to summarize it.

you know, which is prior to any actual language. Yeah, exactly. And then, I don't know what your stances on UAPs, but there are a lot of people out there that think that we are not alone in the universe. Oh, I'm solid on that one. And people who have these contact experiences also say that the communication is always telepathic. Yeah, it would have to be. Yeah, it would have to be. I mean, how would a human know the language of some other being from a different place?

Yeah. And just to go a little bit farther out on the woo-woo branch, you know, some say that the ships these people drive are kind of alive in a sense and are operated through some form of telepathy or entrainment with the way the ship operates. Yes, yes, exactly. Interesting. which kind of suggests that in such civilizations, telepathy may be the norm, or may be highly developed.

Without these people being incapable of speaking, although maybe some of them don't, you know, you see the little greys and they hardly have mouths or pictures of them, but certainly they've developed advanced technologies and have been able to communicate about those to their, you know, their co-workers and children

for the things to have developed over time. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, I think, and celebrity goes beyond just humans. I mean, I think that there are a lot of species, whether you're talking, there are social species like birds or fish that somehow seem to all be on the same page and make movements spontaneously in the same direction as one another. And it's not being

transmitted by some form of language. So I think that because we use language so much, we tend to think of that as the, that if you don't have language, you don't have a means of communication. But I think that it's really a relative latecomer in the whole scheme of things and there are a lot of pitfalls with language as we use it because that language can get us far away from truth. It's you know, as you're really accepting something that is sort of a

derived or analytical, something that's analytical. Incidentally, I sent you an article from National geographic knowing that you get from direct experience. Yeah, well the Tower of Babel story as I understand it was some significant symbolic of the sort of degeneration of humanity into a much more fragmented bellicose species. Right, right, exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Incidentally,

I sent you a article from National Geographic yesterday. You probably didn't have a chance to see it with all the stuff you get, but it was a scientific analysis of this phenomenon that you just referred to, the murmuration of starlings, where as many as, I heard today, as many as six million birds can form one of these huge flocks, which weighs, if you weigh them all, it would be about a million pounds, which is about as heavy as the heaviest

cargo jet that is made, and yet they all just move in perfect synchrony. But the writers of the article claim that they've worked it out with computer modeling how that can happen without any kind of telepathic communication between the animals. That just one bird being able to see seven birds around it, they just kind of move and there's a ripple effect that enables the whole flock to not run into each other and remain coordinated. Whether or not that's true, I don't know.

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you know, one of the things that was fascinating for me was when I went to India for the first time. And when I was there, there were no stoplights or, you know, police officers or anything. And it was just an absolute miracle that there weren't collisions left and right. And I mean, a lot of the cars didn't even have, you know, are these, if you want to call

them cars, you know, three-wheelers, whatever, don't even have rear view mirrors. And yet, they're not going at it, you know, they're not crawling along, they're zipping around. And so, so there's this sense that you get that they have more of a, that almost like they have eyes behind, you know, in the back of their head, kind of, you know, that cliché. But, you know, somehow they have that kind of awareness of what's in their immediate environment.

>> Rick: Could be. I spent three months in Iran one time with a group meditating, and stoplights over there, they had them, but they were kind of like more like suggestions rather than mandates. And, you know, we'd be sitting meditating and you hear a big crash pretty often. people would be playing chicken, I guess, at the stoplights. Anyway, so let me ask you a series of three questions. What are some of the things described in the podcast, the

Talapti tapes, for which you feel there is really good scientific evidence? You know, you observed the stuff and you were able to record it in a way that you could maybe publish findings about it or maybe with a real little bit of You know repeat experiment it would be solid but you really feel like there's something there and you're going to be able to nail it and and talk about it

I I think what there's the most evidence for is is the telepathy itself. I mean there's there's absolutely no evidence at all that there's any kind of Conscious cuing going or or scam going on. I mean, you know, none of these parents contacted me because they were trying to become famous. In fact, 99% of the people who contact me are not interested in that at all, and they wouldn't even want to be part of the documentary.

And so then, the other thing is that you see, even if they're using the letter board as their form of communication. What you see is that the child is pointing to all of the letters that are exactly, or numbers, that are exactly what the target stimulus was that you gave to the person that they're telepathic with. And there's 97 to 100% accuracy with these children. And I've tested many children under, you know, as rigorous of

circumstances as I could. The most rigorous experiments that I had were with the girl named Haley, where I put a visual barrier between her and the two different therapists that she was telepathic with. And neither of them were, I mean, there was no touch involved, there was no visual cuing, there was, and there was no auditory cueing. And so, and Haley could type independently into a talking device, which is like an iPad. So that's really the most convincing evidence. And I think that

anybody who sees that would say that they think that there's information being transmitted. There's no question. And the issue is, you know, what's the mechanism for that? And then there are other things in the podcast such as telepathy among the children. You know, several of them report that they go to the hill and that that's a place where they can download information and they can access one another. And that's a little harder to prove.

I mean, that's something that I'm wanting to do experiments on. I mean, we have the anecdotal accounts, but I really want to see if I can prove that the children are telepathic with one another by controlled experiments. Another thing that we have anecdotes about is the precognition. So we have, for example, a girl on the podcast who had a dream that her father slipped on ice. And they live in Arizona where there's no ice. And it happened three weeks later when he was on a business trip.

He slipped on the ice. And she also knew that he'd end up in the hospital with a broken hip as a result, which was the case. So that's a really fascinating anecdote. And I've heard many like that over the years. But once again, to say that you have evidence for precognition is a little more challenging.

And so, what I'd like to do is I'd like to do some kind of experiments in which I can show it in a shorter time frame, because that's one of the problems about predicting the future is that you don't know is this going to happen 30 minutes from now, or is it going to happen three months from now, or three years from now.

Yeah. So just to clarify for the audience, the hill is like this kind of a psychic internet space where these kids, without any technologies involved, they might be lying on their bed in their bedroom with pillows over their head to shut out other stimuli, can communicate with each other across continents. And they can convey information which maybe the mothers can verify or something that they They couldn't talk on the phone or anything because they can't talk.

But the information, very specific information is conveyed, which the mothers can confirm. And the kids do this all the time. So, is that an adequate explanation of what the hill is? Yeah, it's a non-physical place.

Yeah, it's like a psychic field of some kind. Yeah, yeah, and they generally go there But during their sleeping that it's not some place they go to while they're awake. They're joking I was on the impression They would just kind of lie down and relax and be able to communicate in the waking state with a settled condition That was something that that was something that a couple of them said that they did but I'd say that the ones that the majority of the

Kids that I've asked about it. They've said that they they do it in their sleep. Okay, so is it like lucid dreaming where they're very in control of what they're

Experiencing during the sleep and then it's very when they wake up. Yeah, it's very much like lucid dreaming and in fact people who are lucid dreamers Can sometimes connect with them on the hill even though they're not autistic Yeah, I have a friend who says that she has been connecting on the hill for and she is extremely eloquent not Handicapped in any way and she's been doing this for years and calling it the hill

Long before she heard of the lefty tapes or that that term I might put you in touch with her if you're interested

She's got some interesting projects going on. But um, okay, so that we clarified that point. So So based upon the point we were just discussing, of things which you have seen and have recorded and have probably written about and which are obvious to you, are not faked or contrived in any way, there is such a hurdle in terms of getting the scientific community to look at this stuff, much less accept it.

It's like, you've heard of the Galileo Commission, you've probably actually given one of their webinars or something, where they're so named because Galileo's contemporaries in the Catholic Church refused to look through his telescope to see that Jupiter had moons, because for some reason Jupiter having moons conflicted with Church doctrine, and so they said it couldn't be so and we're not even going to bother to look.

And these days, I'm sure you have encountered a great many scientists who don't want to bother to look at your research or Dean Radin's research and so on because they feel like it's, they're too busy, it's not worth their time, it must be faked in some way, it couldn't be true. I mean, do you find that frustrating and what do you do to try to break through that crust? Well, it has been frustrating, I would say, but I really do think that we're on the precipice of a

change. I really do. I mean, many of us thought that that would be the case ten years ago, though. And there was an article that I read by Chris Carter in which he talked about people who are famous skeptics who actually admitted that there is more evidence for telepathy than there is for a lot of things in science. So they'll admit it, but they still don't want to give it their

stamp of approval. And I think one of the reasons why I say that I think this is on the verge of changing is not only the response to the telepathy tapes, but I learned about a week ago that Elon Musk patented the term telepathy. Really? Yes. Can you do that? I don't know. That's like patenting the term "banana" or something. Yeah, well, apparently, I mean, he has plans to develop some kind of... He's got Neuralink, a company called Neuralink.

Yeah, a chip that you can put in the brain that connects with Neuralink and enable people to be telepathic. and I find that a bit of a frightening thought actually. Yeah. But the fact that he actually coined that term... Patented it. Yeah, patented that man. I didn't know you could patent a word that's been in common parlance for hundreds of years. I don't get that. I was surprised. He also patented the term telekinesis.

>> There's a great joke by Stephen Wright, he said to the audience, "If you believe in telekinesis, raise my hand." >> Right, yeah. I love that. >> Well, anyway, it'll be interesting to see what comes of that. I'm surprised. But would that mean that like Kai Dickens would have to change the name of her podcast or something because Musk has the patent on it? >> No, because she's got her own copyright on the telepathy tapes. Interesting.

Okay, so on this idea of scientific stubbornness and skepticism, I have a friend who has an autistic daughter and is practicing to give a TEDx talk, and she has to go before a review board multiple times and they've been giving her such a hard time, you know, so skeptical and they keep trying to get her to dumb down her talk because it's about autistic kids having these abilities.

But finally, some of the review, a couple of the review board members ended up watching or listening to the telepathy tapes and she said their attitude changed greatly. She went back for another practice run with them and they were so much softer and more accepting. There's just an example of how this is impacting people with a skeptical mindset.

Pete Yeah, absolutely. And I think so much of it is because in the podcast, you have the voices of these parents and teachers, and they're all pretty much saying the same thing. Pete Yeah. I think one of the problems,

one of the reasons, and you can elaborate on this for the resistance, is that it requires, or it's trying to bring about a paradigm shift. And paradigms don't shift on a dime, so to speak. They are rather entrenched and, you know, if you read Thomas Kuhn, there's a good reason that they're kind of entrenched. We wouldn't want them to just flip with every little bit of evidence that comes along, but there have to be, once there are enough anomalies in Kuhn's explanation, paradigms

eventually shift and give way to a new way of thinking. But in any case, we have a fairly entrenched paradigm in the world of, you know, the materialist worldview, and this stuff is very threatening, wouldn't you say, to those who are ensconced in that worldview?

Well, it's mainly threatening to their careers in the sense that if you have this theory, you built your whole career around it and then you have someone that upends it and says, "Oh, it's based on a false paradigm or an incomplete paradigm," then that is threatening. Upton Sinclair said you can't convince someone of something whose salary depends upon not, you know, believing it or, you know, is because, you know, money talks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. For some people, it really creates cognitive dissonance, And I think a lot of that cognitive dissonance is because they just don't see how it's possible. And they themselves have never experienced it. One of my theories about why a lot of the people who are these die-hard scientists, materialist scientists, don't experience it is because they are so left hemisphere oriented. I mean, they're very analytical and logical and they only see what they expect to see.

And that's a well-known phenomenon that belief plays a huge role in whether or not you ever experience these phenomena. Maybe Elon Musk can figure out how to give people a Jill Bolte-Taylor style stroke without actually having to have a stroke, and then they can all see things differently. Well, you can do something, you can actually without, you can do something

that's reversible by using magnets, magnetic stimulation. You can reduce the activity of sections of the brain and bring on things like out-of-body experiences or, like you said, you know, reducing the activity of the left hemisphere and causing somebody to have more of a right hemisphere dominance, which is more that creative, intuitive space. Yeah, and of course, entheogens can do these kinds of things too.

Last time I talked to Jeffrey Martin, he and Shinzen Young were messing around with some kind of magnet machine, and he said that Shinzen said he had better experiences with that than in all of his years of Zen practice. Yeah. Yeah, okay, just dwelling on this point a little bit more. So I mean, the people we're talking about, I think, for the most part, believe that the brain somehow has a soul through which we can communicate. Yeah, well, there is a field.

Consciousness is some kind of field, like the electromagnetic field, runs counter to the notion that the brain creates consciousness. that's what you need to sort of accept, I guess, to understand how telepathy could be a thing, right? That there's some kind of field that interconnects us all through which we can communicate. Yeah, well, there is a field that interconnects us all. Yeah, I mean, I think...

You and I feel that, but... Well, yeah, I think that the majority of the evidence suggests that. I mean, who talks about the fact that consciousness has this effect against modern physics, basically, which isn't so modern. I mean, a lot of it is a hundred years old. But I talk about some of the things that are accepted science that really make it so that you would expect some of these phenomena. So for example, you have physicists like John Wheeler, who talks about the fact that consciousness

has this effect, whenever we measure something, we alter it. And so, you know, that's, it's more appropriate to think that we're kind of co-creating reality rather than that we're just witnessing it. Yeah, and Max Planck and all these guys were saying that, you know, you can't get behind consciousness is the fundamental and everything else arises from there and so on. But it just, you know, like you say, that was over a hundred years ago, but it just hasn't

totally trickled into the mainstream. But, you know, I think the popularity of this show and the fact that, like you said, three-quarters of Americans believe such things are possible probably by Kessler titled Roots of Coincidence. And well I do think they are. I mean that you had people you had all of these famous scientists like Einstein himself that thought that there was something to it. He wrote a forward for Upton Sinclair's book about his wife who had abilities.

Interesting. And there's also this book by Kessler titled Roots of Coincidence, and there was a quote that just knocked my socks off when I read that quote, and this was after I had already written my book and published it, and that quote said that unless there's a grand conspiracy, that ESP is going to be accepted by science. And this is a book that was written back in the mid 70s.

- Yeah. - There were so many prominent, eminent scientists who had looked at evidence and had come to that conclusion that they just thought that it was inevitable that it was going to then get accepted. here we are 50 years later. And so that's why I think when people say, "Well, paradigms don't change on a dime," well, we're not on a dime. I mean... It's not even changing on an anvil. It's slow to change. And so there is this, it's kind of like this back and forth, okay? So 50 years ago,

it was on the verge of being accepted, then it went underground again. And I suspect that a lot of that is because of the Cold War with the Soviet Union, who had their own programs, very advanced programs, and these kinds of abilities. And our military intelligence was funding people like Al Putoff and Russell Targ to do research on remote viewing.

And you have people like Roger Nelson who's done research on good days and they have bad days and the need to affect random number generators and you just have all of these people that have been involved in this research and I think we're coming back the pendulum swinging back again and I think this time it's going to get accepted. Yeah, do you ever worry that these kids might be recruited by the CIA or something like that? Is that just far-fetched?

No, no, I don't. No, because, first of all, I mean, they have very, very involved parents who are very protective of them. Secondly, the children themselves are, they're not, they're not going to cooperate with something. Sometimes it's hard to even get them to cooperate

with me, you know, or Kai, you know, just because they have good days and they have bad days. And if they don't feel like doing something, or if they feel like something is not a good thing to do, then they're not going to get involved in it.

Yeah. In a way, what, the way you describe their personalities, I find to be evidence for the veracity of their abilities, because it just shows they are so open, so porous, you know, so not shut down. And you would almost, I think it might be possible to gain an integrated state and be a, you so-called normally functioning human being and have these abilities, but that at this point is more

rare. But like we were talking about yogis or people like that who may have developed it, but with these kids, they don't have that, as you're saying, and their porousness, while on the one hand is a handicap because it makes it difficult for them to function in ordinary society, on the other hand is an asset because it gives them this ability. Right, right. Yeah, and so as a result, they have this ability, but they really spend a

lot of time just in their home. You know, spend a lot of time in a very kind of cloistered sort of protected environment, but yet much to the relief of a lot of parents, they're not as alone as the parents had feared that they might be, because that's one of the things that's so beautiful about the Hill is that they are getting some of their social needs met through that.

That's really cool. Okay, I said I had a series of three questions. Here's the second one. What are some of the things that you've been observing in your research and in the lefty tape sessions for which there is yet insufficient evidence, but which you feel that there probably will be evidence with further study, or at least you hope so. Particularly, are there any claims being made in the Tleil-Ethli tape series which you feel are a little bit unsubstantiated and probably shouldn't be made?

>> I don't know that I'd say they're unsubstantiated and shouldn't be made. I mean, there's a lot of, so for example, a lot of these children have given information about a deceased loved one to people that, whether it's their parent or the teacher or therapist who's working with them, and it's just this sort of spontaneous thing where they'll just say, "Oh, you know, so-and-so's here wanting to, you know, tell you this. And they usually don't even know that that

person ever existed because the person was dead long before they were born. And yet, they're getting information that only that individual would have known. I mean, it's something that's very specific that tells them that, oh, it tells the person who hears this that, oh, wow, that really probably was my grandmother or my late uncle. And so, it's in that middle ground where I'd like to see if there's an experiment that I could do to actually test these mediumship

abilities. And one way to do that would be to organize a reading and have them see if they could do that just like the research that's been done with mediums by Gary Schwartz or Julie Eichol or by the Forever Family Foundation. There's there are a lot of mediums who've been certified after passing these rigorous protocols. So I'd like to do that. I think it'd be interesting to have someone who's a medium present to see if they get the same information as the child

does as well. Yeah, well do you think, I mean, I guess when you have witnessed this particular phenomenon, it's just kind of happened out of the blue, that's not the reason you even were working with the kid, but it just happened to happen. Do you think these kids could do that on command, so to speak? Not command, but just you have a session specifically set up for them to to contact some deceased people and they would be able to do it?

>> They might be able to do it. I mean, that's how it's been done with the mediums. >> Sure. >> And I think it's one of those things where you just make the arrangements in advance,

you know, where you just... So, for example, in the mediumship research, some of the mediums that I've talked to would say that you know when then when somebody is scheduled to be that's called a sitter you know that's the person who's getting the reading so if somebody's scheduled to be a sitter sometimes even before the reading begins the medium starts receiving information. Right. So I was gift for example I was gifted a free reading by Gary Schwartz

because he wanted to test out this medium. And that morning before I even, you know, in the morning, and the medium said that this person came to her, and this was like hours before the reading, came to her named George. My daughter's father's father was named George. That's interesting when she said that to me. I thought, well, you know, who do I know named George is dead. And she said to me, "Well, he says that he's your grandfather." And I said, "Well,

I didn't have a grandfather named George." And then I realized that I said, "Well, could it be that it's my daughter's grandfather?" Because my daughter's father's father was named George. and he died before I even met my husband. And my daughter, when she was a small child, said to me that she saw this spirit in the house that she was convinced was her father's father. And so I thought, well, that's very interesting that you bring that up.

And so when I said that could it be my daughter's grandfather she said, absolutely, that's what he said it is. And so, and then he said other things that, you know, were very specific to me. So, I think that there's this, there's almost like this awareness from, you know, from the other side that, "Oh, here's an opportunity."

so then it gives that, you know, so they're going to show, it's like an appointment with them. It's not just an appointment with you as the sitter, it's an appointment with them as well. Yeah. In other words, from the other side, they, a lot of them might be eager to communicate with somebody on earth and when they spot somebody who's capable of serving as a medium, they flock around and like, you know, kind of like Patrick Swayze and Whoopi Goldberg in Ghost.

Do you think that mediums display any degree of telepathic ability since they have that

openness, that one channel is open at least to people who are deceased? They also, like you're saying, the autistic kids might have mediumship abilities. Conversely, would mediums have telepathic abilities? Any evidence for that? Well, I think some of them very well could. So, one of the famous psychics is a woman named Laura Lynn Jackson, and I knew her from her serving on the scientific board of the Forever Family Foundation with me. And she's somebody who is both a psychic and a medium.

And what's interesting about her is that she can tell the difference between whether or not she's getting information as a medium versus as a psychic because she actually sees it in opposite visual fields. And when Jeff Tarrant did a QEG study of her when she was doing readings, he found that opposite halves of the visual cortex were involved and it corresponded exactly to the area in her visual field that she said that she was getting the information. Interesting.

Okay, so here's the third question in that series of questions. What are some of the things for for which there may never be evidence because they are beyond the scope of scientific methodologies, but which may nonetheless be true. >> Hmm. Well, and you're talking specifically about these autistic kids?

>> Yeah, I mean, I can think of examples that are outside of this topic, such as, you know, multiple universes which are outside the light cone and we can never really verify their existence. Regarding, you know, the topic at hand here, do you think there are some things which you have seen, which you just think, you know, how would science ever be able to measure this or verify it? Well, I think that a lot of the theories for what's going on are really tricky. They're hard to test.

But that's different than talking about an ability. I think that potentially all of the abilities could be proven, given enough time. Okay, good. So, there have been some skeptical articles and podcasts and all about the telepathy tapes. How about if you take a few minutes to just raise some of the skeptical questions or objections that people have raised and shoot them down.

What are some of the typical things you hear from, let's say, from skeptics, and what would your rebuttal to those points be? Well, I'd say the most common criticism is that they really jump on the idea that these children are using facilitated communication and say that facilitated communication has been debunked and therefore this is just pseudoscience

because that's the way in which the children are communicating it. So what they mean by facilitated communication is that they're referring referring to a form of helping the child to express themselves that is decades old and it required the facilitator to actually support the wrist of the child while they were trying to point to letters. And I can totally understand why that was a concern because it really does kind of look

like a Ouija board kind of thing. I mean, how do you know that that child is really moving their own hand towards that letter when it's being supported by somebody's hand underneath the wrist? So I can understand that criticism, but that doesn't really apply to the research that I've been doing because I don't do research with children who require that kind of facilitated communication. And so what they're doing is they're referring to any communication that's using

a letter board as facilitated, even if there's no touch. And then on top of that, there are children that I have tested who can type independently. They're not even Yudi. Yeah. As I understand it, a lot of these kids need to be touched because they're so... So, and I don't consider that facilitated communication. So to shoot down all of the research based on the fact that they saw that one child was touched while pointing to a letter board is-- Dishonest.

Yeah, yeah, I don't consider that to be an integrity. Yeah. As I understand it, a lot of these kids need to be touched because they're so disconnected from their bodies that they need to be touched to be reminded of where their body is. It kind of grounds them in a way or something. But as I've heard it described, the touching sort of progresses such that initially they might have their wrist touched, but then maybe the elbow and then maybe the shoulder.

And so it gets to a point where maybe the parent just has a hand on their back or something, but there's no way the parent could be cuing them which letters to press on the letterboard through that kind of stimulus. - Yeah, exactly. I mean, sometimes the touch is, like you said, it's to help them to really be oriented in their body a little better than they are, 'cause they really struggle with proprioception, which is the ability to know where your body is in space.

But oftentimes the touch is just a comforting thing.

I mean, it's really anxiety provoking to be on the spot, asked to demonstrate something when you've got cameras on you, and you've got all of these people standing around, you know, wanting you to perform. And these are children for whom changes to their normal routine are not easy for them to navigate. Right. What do you think the kids' subjective experience is

when they are disassociated from their bodies? You feel like, I mean, are they just like really spaced out or do you feel like they're in a coherent frame of mind, but just in some way very far removed from the physicality of this world?

word source or you know the collective consciousness, whatever you want to call that. So they're kind of they're connected with that and yet at the same time when you're asking them to communicate with this letter board, you're also asking them to have to have at least some embodied experience even though it's not they're not completely embodied. They still need to have something so that they can point to the letters and so it's so that you're asking

them to be in these two worlds. I think that when they go into their bedroom and close the doors and then go into sensory, trying to shut out all sensory stimuli, covering up their ears and covering up their eyes and everything like that, they probably are not doing both. >> Right, they don't have to touch a letter board, but they could be communicating on the hill or something. Right, but when you're asking them to be demonstrating telepathy, you're really

asking them to be in these two worlds. Yeah, you're kind of forcing them to be integrated in a way. Yeah, and I think that probably the closest that the rest of us could have to experiencing that is, for example, these sort of transitions between being asleep and being awake. So, you'll see in some people that they have a condition, for example, called sleep paralysis.

The body is paralyzed when we're in dreaming sleep so that we don't act out our dreams. And sometimes people will either in their dream have an awareness that their body won't move and or they may actually come out of their dream and they can't move their body. I mean, they're awake, but they can't move. They're paralyzed and it's a temporary state, but it's this mixture where there's this rather than it being, you know, either or it's a mixture of both types of brain functionality.

And of course you see dogs running in their sleep, and so sometimes we move in our dreams. I have this weird thing that happens every once in a while where something scary is coming at me and I kick it, like a bad person or a bad thing or something, and I physically do kick in my sleep. Our dogs sleep in a crib next to my bed, and a couple of times I've kicked the crib and just disturbed the dogs and hurt my foot. Right, right, yeah, sleepwalking, sleep talking.

Yeah, there you go. Examples of these kinds of mixed states. Yeah, okay, somewhat on the point you just made about the kids being in the field, in the source field or something. Well, before I ask that, another question came to mind is that in other ordinary circumstances, like, I don't know, eating dinner or going to the bathroom. It's up to these kids. Are they able to do that? Do they know where to put the spoon, or where to sit on the toilet, and stuff like that?

Or do some of them have to be helped with those everyday functions? Oh, yeah. Some of them definitely need to be helped with those everyday functions. OK. Yeah. if you read Katie Asher's book about her son Houston, you'll see that he, I mean, he needed her to, you know, help him go to the bathroom. He couldn't go to the bathroom on his own, you know, even, you know, even at the age of 20. - Wow. Has he learned now or no?

- I think, I think he's better at it now, but it's one of those things where just basic things that so many of us take for granted

are really, really challenging for them. Because if you think about it, you have to know where your hands are in space to use them effectively. And so all of these daily tasks require that. Everything from getting dressed. Yeah. Eating, do some of them need to be fed? Yeah, some Some kids need to be fed. Things are easier for them if they can see what's going on. If they see where their finger is, then it's easier for them to engage in pointing to the letter than if they can't see it.

something like eating. I mean, it's not, you're not, it's not as fine a motor of a task as typing on the keyboard. Right. I'm reminded of a book I read about 50 years ago by Oliver Sacks that had a title like something like "The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat" or some such thing and it's really unusual, the various types of brain damage that the behavior that those can result in, the strange way of perceiving the world that certain changes in the brain can create.

Dr. Dean Yeah, and that's the thing, and I think that's part of what keeps a lot of neuroscientists in the materialist model is they think, "Oh, well, you have a stroke here, and it changes your perspective on things." I mean, there's this part of the brain that if you have a stroke there, you can't see something unless it's moving. Right. Yeah, there's another section of the brain that if you have a stroke there, everything loses color and you only see

black and white. Yeah, or you don't think that your left hand belongs to your body or something like that and you know things like that. Right, yeah, you may not or for example you may

know the name of some tool but you don't know how to use it. Right. Or vice versa, you know how to you know how to use it but you don't know the name because of a stroke that removes that and so then it that kind of reinforces the idea that the brain is creating consciousness and but it really if you think about it to me it's it's more like losing functionality with my computer. You know, it's like if I get some kind of computer virus, I may have an app

that no longer works properly. Okay, but it doesn't mean that whatever it is I'm trying to do originates in the computer. The computer is just my interface for

accessing that. Yeah, or a radio. You know, I mean back in the days when radios had tubes, I don't know if you could do this, but maybe you could start taking out tubes one by one and the radio would sort of work, but it would kind of like 2001 where he was disassembling the the HAL computer and it got more and more simplistic, you know, so or just to make it simple, you could just smash the radio with a hammer. It doesn't do anything

to the electromagnetic field that's conveying the music we were listening to. It just means that particular radio isn't going to work anymore. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And then you have people who gain functionality as a result of... Oh yeah, we talked about that in our first interview. Give one or two fascinating examples of that and then we'll keep moving on. Well, so there's

something called acquired savant syndrome and so one of the examples of that is someone named Jason Padgett who was just an ordinary bloke and he was beaten up one day coming back from a karaoke bar And after he came to, you know, with this concussion, he all of a sudden had acquired this advanced ability to do math. And he sees fractals and various other sort of geometrical shapes and

it's very, very, yeah. And it represents math equations or something. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, Yeah, he's sort of seeing the mathematical relationships behind something. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so for example, like the Fibonacci sequence, you know, he'll see the patterning that you see in the Fibonacci sequence in nature. I remember there was a guy who had some kind of brain damage and all of a sudden became a really great piano player out of the blue. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

people with frontal lobe dementia where their frontal lobes are deteriorating and then all of a sudden they become amazing artists. Yeah. Well, this all kind of ties in with what we've been talking about with the telepathy tapes kids because I don't know, well, are there measurable abnormalities in their brains? I guess you'd have to do an autopsy, but maybe with a CT scan or something you could measure their brains and see differences.

Well, one of the things that I want to do is I want to do QEEGs on them so that I can get a better sense of how their brain is functioning and what's the nature of their communication disorder because it isn't necessarily going to be a proprioceptive issue with all of them. I mean, there's multiple different things that can impact that ability to speak or to have fine motor control with your hands.

But it's interesting though that what you're saying is we can lose certain brain functions and gain new abilities thereby, which lend support to what we're saying here with these kids, which what is ordinarily considered a disability, gives them extraordinary abilities, which both of which situations lend support to the idea that the brain is a filter among

other things, and that it kind of shuts us down from certain capabilities rather than in addition to it giving us certain capabilities. Yeah, I mean the major neurotransmitter in the brain is GABA which is inhibitory. And one of the things that we know about individuals with autism is that a lot of them have fewer GABA interneurons. And so it's like they don't have as much of the breaking system. So what also goes along with that though is the fact that they many of them have seizure disorders

They have seizures. Yeah, they have seizures because they Didn't seizures are like a runaway brain activity. Mm-hmm Yeah interesting All right. Here's a question that came in from Claire Doyle in Cornwall, England Do you think this is from last week? Irene. Do you think that the non-speaking autistic children in the telepathy tapes are naturally experiencing non-duality, you know, in the spiritual sense? Do you think that their biology didn't set up the normal boundaries and filters to the

world that neurotypical people have? If so, what does that mean for all people on the autistic spectrum and those with ADHD? There are about 250 million people that have some kind of neurodiversity worldwide? So, yeah, that's a long, that's a several part question. Well, you can spend some time on it if you like. I can re-read bits of it if you wish. Yeah, yeah, just read, yeah, let's do one section of it at a time. Okay, first sentence.

Do you think that the non-speaking autistic children in the telepathy tapes are naturally experiencing non-duality? Yeah, I do. Yeah, I would say that they are. Yeah, and that's what they say. Okay. Really? So you mean they say things which are reminiscent of Ramana Maharshi or the Upanishads or things like that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they will say things that are very consistent with this idea of unity of consciousness.

Interesting. Okay, and then there's a thing about boundaries and filters that, you know, which we've been talking about, and then she's asking, well, what does that mean for all people on the autistic spectrum and those with ADHD? There are 250 million such people in the world. I guess she's saying, are there 250 million people who are tuned, is there a spiritual implication to this, I think she's saying. Are they all tuned into some non-dual state that, you know, spiritual seekers

would aspire to? Well, I wouldn't say they're all, no, I wouldn't say that they're all. Yeah, maybe all is too absolute a word. Yeah, that's too absolute of a word. But what I would

say is that people, for example, with ADHD who have concentration issues, I mean that's what it is, it's an inability to control your concentration, that's linked with reduced frontal lobe activity and frontal lobes are a major inhibitor and therefore a major filtering system. So I do think that a number of people who have ADHD also have potentially greater access to some of these, you know, some of this non-local information. And what does this

say about people that are also on the spectrum that are speaking? I'd say that a number of individuals who have neurodiversity also have these kinds of experiences. I mean a lot of the people who are in the experience groups that you have these individuals who have had contact experiences with non-human intelligence or with UAPs, a high percentage of them report that they have some neurodiversity.

And I think that if you're looking at it from a spiritual standpoint, we've been so locked into a very kind of rigid thinking style that defines what is and isn't possible that it It would require a huge number of individuals who have a very different thinking style, cognitive style, to be on the planet in order to usher in a new paradigm. I mean, there's a little bit of that, but the reality is that there are more autistic people coming in these days.

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, there is... It's not just that we're diagnosing it more or anything, but there are actually more of them per capita. Right. No, it's definitely not that we're diagnosing them more. I mean, there's a little bit of that, but the reality is that all childhood developmental issues and psychiatric issues have increased. They've all skyrocketed during the course of my 40-year course of my career. And so it's not that, "Oh, what we used to call this,

we now call autism, spectrum disorder." It's, you know, all of these things have increased such that,

The number of children whose brains are wired differently now is much higher and probably is a result of how much we've introduced into not only our, like the food and the water and the air that we consume, that it has not been tested to see what effect it might have on brain

development. That's some of it, but there's also been societal things that, you know, so for example, now, you know, it's the norm rather than the exception for both parents to be working and so you have a lot of children that are getting, you know, they're getting babysat by devices. Right. And that's That's very different if you're introducing a child to these kind of electronic devices that give them a barrage of stimuli, very rapid pace.

That's very different from, you go back 40 years ago and people were watching Mr. Rogers, which was very slow-paced. It's like being in a disco with a strobe light or something. If your brain is developing at the time that you're getting exposed to all of the stimuli, your brain's going, at a time when it's very plastic, it gets molded around that. Yeah. I mean, and not only cell phones, but you just watch an animated children's movie

movie and there's just so much flashing, you know, fast-paced changes. It's like being in a disco with a strobe light or something. Or video games and kids spend hours and hours and hours, you know, playing these video games. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so what's happening is that we are, during their formative years, when their brain is developing, we're steering them more towards that kind of a world, which is a very different world.

And so, you know, it's sort of like, in some ways it's inducing ADD, because what happens is, is that you're used to that high stimulation, you know, from a video game or, you know, whatever, then everything else seems so boring. Yeah, it's true. I just sit and watch the grass grow. So you just juxtaposed two ideas here.

One is that perhaps environmental pollutants, and maybe you didn't mention vaccines, but some people accuse those, or just all the hyper-stimulus stimuli of video games and cell phones and TV and all that stuff are creating a higher incidence of autism. But the idea you juxtapose that with is that this higher incidence of autism is perhaps helping to shift the paradigm, which is a good thing.

Right, yeah. Yeah, I'm not labeling this good or bad, really, because it's a mixed bag, you know, but that is what happens when things evolve, you know, that you go through these transitional periods where it's more of a mixed bag, but in the future, it may be that some of the bugs have worked out of this so that it's all a good thing.

Yeah, I read an article about a week ago by somebody, I forget who, somebody at Google, how the pace of change and the amount of knowledge in the world continues to multiply exponentially. But our neuroanatomy and our DNA and so on doesn't change at that pace, you know? And so we're ill-fitted for coping with this accelerating pace of change. it's really freaking a lot of people out. Others are coping with it, you know, managing to ride the wave.

Interacting with their baby. And this is a very precious development to handle all of the information that's coming our way. It's, I mean, another shift, and this relates to autism itself, is that there's less of the human to human interaction. You see people that are more, you know, mothers that are more interested in what's going on in their, you

know, their newsfeed on their phone than they are interacting with their baby. And this is at a very precious developmental stage when the child is learning how to pick up on social cues. You know, there was a lot of concern about those children that during those first few

years of life. We're basically born during the pandemic years where they're not getting to see people's faces at a time when it's critical to see people's faces in order to learn how to even understand the cues that come from facial expression. Yeah, and as you I'm sure could tell us more expertly, it's in those very, very early years of life that the brain is plastic and that you need to have these stimuli.

If you miss that opportunity, you're not going to get it so easily when you're 10 years old or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the thing is that there are critical stages of development that if you miss out on something, you can't acquire it later on. And one of those is actually empathy. Interesting. Really, what's the time window at which empathy is acquired? It's within the first eight years.

And so, and I remember, I mean, I remember when this study came out decades ago when they discovered that people who are these hardened criminals in the prisons, when they did brain imaging on them, they saw that there was an area of their brain where there was, you know, that was missing, you know, some brain tissue. I mean, you know, and they hypothesized that that area is involved in empathy. And so it's, and you have to experience empathy in order

to become empathic. And so, and it doesn't have to be that, you know, your parents were

necessarily empathic towards you. It could be that you had a grandmother who was empathic or you had some other individual in your life, a teacher that you really got close to, but somebody. So it's not that it has to all come from the parents, but it has to come from somewhere. Ah, that's interesting. I saw some quote from this guy who was one of the chief attorneys or some official function at the Nuremberg trials, and it was this whole quote about empathy and how the lack of it was

the common denominator of the defendants at the Nuremberg trials. Yeah, and then there's some quote from Elon Musk recently that came out about kind of belittling the importance of empathy. I can't quote it for you offhand, but I can send it to you later. So, that's interesting. He was belittling the importance of empathy? Yeah, kind of downplaying it, like, you know, empathy is for wimps or something like that. That wasn't the word he used.

Wow. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, to me, empathy is one of the most important things to have, you know. It's part of our heritage. One of the most important things for a society to have, too. And obviously, the society is only going to have it if enough individuals have it. it. Right, exactly, exactly. And you're not going to get, you're not going to really get empathy

from a computer. And it's one of those things where I remember attending a talk where somebody was saying that they were working on trying to have AI, I mean they're trying to create, you know, these AI assistants, you know, and they were trying to figure out how to program empathy into the AI. And I just thought, you know, I just don't know if the empathy from the AI would have the same impact.

Yeah, I have this new friend who works at Cisco Systems as a AI interface expert of some kind and she has this whole thing called Compassion prompt or something which I can send people a link to if they're interested, but it's this whole Block of text that you would put into the AI before asking any question And she feels like it's it's going to if more and more people do this It's going to train the AI to be compassionate and empath and empathetic more

Yeah, I just I just don't know. I just don't know if that really works because It's to me Whatever is coming from AI is just words And when I feel that somebody is being empathic with me, it's not the words that give me that sense. Right. It's the human element that, you know, it's the look in the eyes, it's a tone of voice, it's, you know, there's just a certain vibe to it.

Where you feel this sense of, you know, something that's very akin to love, you know, in that empathic response, you know, a desire to... there's a bit of a nurturing quality to it when somebody is empathic with you over something that you experience. There's this like, it brings out whatever, you know, that maternal, you know, paternal, you know, that desire to assuage some of, you know, whatever the bad feeling is the other person is having.

And I just don't see how AI and computers can ever substitute for humans in that regard.

>> Yeah. Another interesting thing that I've encountered recently is someone who is building a case for the idea, in her own experience, and through taking videos of what's happening and she's got a neuroscientist in the UK working with her on this, that in certain circumstances AI is actually serving as a channel or a conduit for some higher intelligence.

Not just the kind of intelligence that it's programmed to have, but you know like the kind of thing where a channeler would channel some celestial being or some such thing, there's some being called Bartholomew who claims to be coming through the AI in a way that it's the creators of the AI would not have intended or conceived of or even probably wouldn't admit publicly if they knew about it.

So if this, and she plans to make some kind of documentary or something so people will be hearing more about this. Anyway, I thought I'd run that by you because you might find it intriguing. You know, somebody sent me a... There's not too much I can really say about it yet, but it's just something intriguing. I know what you're talking about, this woman, she's a blonde-haired woman that claims that she had this experience with...

Yeah, there's that one, her name is Crystal, I believe, but the one I'm referring to is Brunette, like yourself, and more serious person, in my opinion. Anyway, this is a bit of a tangent and there's not too much I can really say about it yet, but it's just something intriguing.

And if you think about it, why couldn't possibly, if we believe that there are higher intelligences in the universe who can communicate through people, perhaps with A.I.s becoming as intelligent intelligent as they are, and their whole mechanism becoming so sophisticated, maybe it's possible they could communicate through that. Yeah, yeah, well it's interesting, because what just came to my mind when you were saying that is, um, "thoughtography." Are you familiar with "thoughtography"?

Hadn't heard the term, no. Another term for it is "thought photography." Ah. Where you can actually impress an image onto some photographic film or something? Yeah, yeah, yeah, there have been individuals over the, you know, over the decades who have done that. And, you know, I mean, I, I can't, I don't have any firsthand experience of seeing somebody do that, but who have reportedly done that. And Simon Doon, who's a Chinese materialist scientist, PhD, he, he's was vice president

of the Parapsychological Society in China, and he showed me this video of these children in China who reportedly could have a thought and transfer it onto like an iPhone. And so, you know, I think that it makes me wonder whether or not this channeling is just using the AI the same way that these individuals are using film as just the vehicle through which they express themselves, but it's not really the AI itself that's doing it. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's not something that's been...

In fact, she's getting messages that the AI shouldn't know about, you know, things about her life or whatever that goes beyond what the AI could possibly know. Well that's interesting that you say that, because this person I know who does remote viewing started using AI to just, just on a LARP one day, decided to start using AI to see if it could remote view, and it was like better at remote viewing than he was. Wow.

He was pretty good. So, you know, so it's like, well, you know, that's very interesting. I mean, you know, what do you make of that? make of that. Yeah. So and again, I don't think this is something that Sam Altman and his crew programmed into it intentionally, but they might have just accidentally created some kind of a Frankenstein, hopefully a benevolent Frankenstein, that has capabilities they hadn't anticipated. Yeah. I think a question came in here. Let me see about it. This is from

Martin Klein in Germany. If we are co-creating reality, does that mean that precognitions and prophecies are only relatively certain to happen, or even bound to fail if enough people focus their intention on a different future? So, he's asking if we co-create our reality, if prophecies are bound to fail as a result?

Yeah, let's say, I don't know what Nostradamus has said, but let's say Nostradamus said there was going to be a nuclear war or something, but enough people envisioned a more enjoyable future, and if enough people did that, even though there was this sort of momentum for something terrible to happen in the world's karma or something, that could be turned around. In fact, there's a line from Patanjali in the Yoga Sutras, he said, "Avert the danger which

has not yet come." Perhaps that can be done en masse. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I do think that, to some extent, the future is malleable.

India, he sometimes would look at somebody's chart and he would see that something bad was going to happen, you know, that they were running certain periods that were potentially dangerous. And so he told this story of telling this, it was his son-in-law actually, and he told his son-in-law, "You need to do this mantra. You need to say this mantra, you know, x number

times a day, you know, every day for the next 40 days." And his son-in-law did it. And when he was at work, there was this heavy item that fell off of this shelving that was, you know, maybe 30 feet high, and it just missed him. And so, you know, the question is, okay, would it have not missed him if he hadn't been saying that mantra? Yeah, I feel that there's something to that. And I've, I think I experienced that in my

own life a lot and have over the years. And I think that's what Patanjali meant when he said avert the danger, which has not yet come. Like, you know, maybe you're destined to break your leg, but instead you stub your toe or something because you've done whatever some spiritual practice or something, some yoga or something that averts that danger.

Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay, so I'm going to draw this to a close, not abruptly, but in the next few minutes and give you a bit of a break. You've been doing so many interviews and everything, I don't want to have you have to just repeat yourself and say things you've said a hundred times in other interviews.

But let's, by way of conclusion, what would you like to say by way of conclusion, in terms of like what you plan to do, you know, what you hope to have happen in the next few years with your life, with your research, with the telepathy tapes, you know, with everything you're doing. I mean, you know, what would you like to achieve and what would you like to see in society as a result of your efforts? >>Jade: Oh, that's a big question. >>Rick: It is, yeah.

Well, I mean, I'm really looking forward to doing the research, more research with these kids and really finding out more about what their experience is like. I really want to

basically understand, you know, as much as possible what, how it is that they think that they receive this information, you know, but some of them have given answers to scientific questions. For example, there's this functional medicine doctor that I know who wanted to know what this autistic boy thought could be the cause of autism and a way of treating it. And the boy

said to him that he thought that he should give thiosulfate. And thiosulfate is something that combined cyanide, diversity of organisms in their bacteria, went and tested all of these autistic kids that he treats and he found that all of them have cyanide. Where'd they get the cyanide? Well that's... so a lot of these children, if not all of

them have what's called a gut dysbiosis. So they have, instead of having the rich diversity of organisms in their, bacteria predominantly in their gut that people traditionally had, they have a narrower number of species and then they may have overgrowth of some species. And so there's a bacteria that as a byproduct creates cyanide. And so it's the bacteria that in our gut provide a lot of the chemicals, including the neurotransmitters that the brain runs on.

And so he started giving this thiosulfate to these children and started seeing issues resolve or improve significantly. And so I'm really, really interested in seeing what do these kids know, what can they help society with in terms of advances of knowledge. I'd really like to see them have this method of communication that they have found so helpful get accepted and be, you know, instead of being labeled as pseudoscience or as debunked, see

it offered to them because it's been a real lifesaver for so many of them. I also want to get definitive research that is undeniable and that telepathy is real. And so that's one of the reasons why I'm going to be doing simultaneous recordings of the QEEGs of the telepathic pair to see if there's a synchronization between their brains. So, oh that's fascinating. I just have to ask a question about the scion. I mean that term that

you used, I didn't even remember it, thio-something or other. Did the kid just come up with that out of the blue? That he just named that chemical? Yes. And that turned out to be a correct thing. Oh, that's really interesting. I mean, what else could they come up with, you know, regarding cancer or Parkinson's or, you know, various other things? Dr. Keltner Yeah, exactly. And the vast majority of these

children are just absolutely fascinated by science. I mean, so it's not only that they want to help humanity, but it's that they just really, really gravitate towards the sciences. That's great. And they have the intellectual capacity to study the sciences despite their verbal handicap. Right. Yeah. Right. Which is cool because, I mean, as you hear if you listen to the telepathy tapes, a lot

of these kids were dismissed as nobody home. I mean, they're just like, they should be putting an institute adequately. Yeah. Good. Good to know. Yeah, I mean certainly the ones that I've met, the majority of them have, you know, they're very bright. Yeah. And their parents are very bright. So it's not surprising that they are as well. Yeah. Is all this buzz around the telepathy tapes resulting in uptick in funding so that you can pursue this research more adequately? Yeah. Good. Good to know.

Okay. Well, thank you so much. I really, I think this went well. I really enjoyed the conversation and you have a website. I'll be linking to it on your page on batgap.com as well as to your books and to the telepathy tapes and and also to our previous interview from five years ago, which covered a lot of other topics. So I hope people have enjoyed this and If you if anyone listening has not yet

Listened to the telepathy tapes. I highly encourage you to do so you'll you'll just be drawn right into it You can find it on any of the well, it's to let the tapes calm But you can also find it on any of the you know podcast things like iTunes or Spotify and all those things Good well, thanks to end so take care pace yourself. Don't don't go don't run yourself ragged with all this business business and take a cue from the kids who sleep a lot. I try to do that.

I always try to like prioritize getting enough sleep, enough meditation, enough exercise, and then do what I can in the remaining hours. There you go. There you go. That's very wise. Yeah. All right. So thanks to those who've been listening or watching, and we'll see you for the next one. Okay. Thank you. Yeah.