689. Lorna Byrne

and lifeless and meaningless and dead and gray and depressing and so on. Have you ever gone through a phase where it appeared that way to you, or has your subtle perception always made it appear divine, ultimately, even if you're going through difficult times? >> Well, many a time, I went through a very, very hard time, and I would feel down, and I would give out to God and the angels. But always, my prayers were answered. I always

got the help in the end, even though it was extremely hard. It's like one Christmas literally having nothing from Santa Claus for the children. And out of the blue, you would say to yourself, how could that happen? A car on my way home, as I was pushing one of my sons in the pram, pulled in and stopped and just said, "We've some toys here in the boot of the car and we're trying to get rid of them, would you like them? Nice, yeah, I remember that from your book.

And just, yeah, just talk to them. And I suppose one thing I've always taught my children is, well, because of that day, I would say to them, try and be Santa Claus for someone else in that way. So, God and the angels help us all of the time, and I know for me this is all normal, you know, I don't know what it's like for you. Like, if I go out in the street and see somebody walking down the street, I will see the angels with them, and maybe even the soul of a loved one.

But it's normal. I don't know what it's like for you just to see only the human being as such, and not to see the angels as well physically, or the soul of a loved one. Now, I can't on the screen, that rarely happens. You see your angel can or cannot? I cannot. Okay, I was going to ask you that. Do you see them over Zoom and things? No, no, that would very rarely happen.

That would happen very rarely, and but I know if I was ever out on the streets or walking somewhere or in another country, I've been in so many places and everywhere I have been, single human being. And to me, that's a great comfort. Some people would say to me that it's I have seen the guardian angel with every a great comfort to them as well. Everybody has a guardian angel, you know, that beautiful guardian

angel that never leaves them for one second at all. And I just love the way our guardian angels

love us unconditionally and don't judge us. Even if you're doing something that's wrong, your guardian angel won't judge you, but it'll try and, what would I say, not for you what is wrong. Pete Yes, I have a lot of questions about that.

Let's try to establish a definition of what an angel is. My understanding is that creation exists in layers or strata or dimensions from gross to subtle to transcendent, and that angels would dwell in some level of the subtle dimension, but still be able to perceive and interact with our gross reality. Is that your understanding, or is that correct? >> To me, it wouldn't be my understanding in that way, because you have to remember,

I'm dyslexic. I haven't been educated, probably like yourself, so I don't read or anything like that, because I can't do that, and I never have. When people used to ask me about the Guardian Angels and all angels, I used to feel a bit embarrassed, not for people, but for the angels themselves, because what I was told to say was that God created angels long, long ago. I don't know how long ago, and that they are creatures.

and the Angels have us on a pedestal way above them, where humanly we always put the Angels They're not like us. We have this soul on a pedestal in that way, and that is because we have a soul, that spark of light of God. That's the only difference I know between Angels, ourselves, and God, because that's the way I was told to say it. Angels were created long, long ago, and they're not like us, and call them

creatures. So I don't know why that word, and that was the word that I was embarrassed to say of hurting the angels, if you understand. I didn't want to hurt them, but... >> And hurt their feelings or something. >> Yeah, but I was told I must say it. I only can tell you what I know, I can't tell you anything else. And I know you're saying this like layers and layers. I never see it that way. That's the difference. I never see it that way, even with

Archangel Michael. I know he's in charge of a lot of things, but I never see Archangel Michael, or I have never seen any angel, what would you say, being authoritative to another angel. All I can say is, in one sense, it's like there's such peace and love, so much understanding.

It's not like the way our world is, the way we are, "I'm the boss, you're to do what I say, you're not good enough." There's none of that at all, and to me that is incredible. Yeah, they just play their roles naturally, I guess, and each in its place, and nobody have to push them around for them to do the right thing. >> Yeah, I have never, never seen that, so I can't agree with someone or anyone that might say, "Well, it must happen that way."

But I suppose we look on everything in a human way. >> You mentioned that angels consider humans superior to them because we have souls and they don't. And you also say that animals don't have souls, and I guess maybe we should define what a soul is. way I can define it for you is that a soul is that spark of light of God and it's so, so tiny. It's like a spark off a piece of wood or a piece of turf. It's really, really tiny and yet it fills

every part of us and it's out there. It's like for that reason that angels have awesome pedestals and why your guardian and why it's the gatekeeper of your soul. angel doesn't leave you for one second It never, never leaves you. And why other angels even love to come and go to give you a helping hand in other ways. And I know it upset people a huge amount when I said, sometimes somebody would ask me, "I loved my dog so much, it must have a soul. It gives me so much love and affection."

And your dog doesn't have a soul. I know that's very upsetting for people, but if you love that animal dearly, God will have it in heaven for you when your time comes, because you loved it. And we have taught animals how to, how would you say, I'd watch a person, it's lovely to see, give love to an animal. It's like this radiant light comes from a person, and it's just so beautiful to watch an animal give it back.

And we have to remember that creation is still happening, and God is still creating. So, if God at any time wanted every animal in the world to be in that place we call heaven, it's just a word we use, heaven, I know that would be so. >> But angels, they are sentient beings of some kind. They are conscious, they perceive, they have senses of humor, they have personalities, and so on. And God is all-pervading, is it not?

>> God has ever only shown me his love. Literally, only love and compassion and everything like that. And they're the gifts that every human being today in the world are looking for. That compassion, for that love, for that hope, for that peace. And I say to everyone, everyone has all those things inside of you because of your soul,

but we can't go into a supermarket to buy them. They're not for sale. So you have to love you so you can love others. Now I know you respect different traditions and religions. and you do say that perhaps the time will come when all religions are just completely harmonious with

one another, but obviously different religious traditions have different teachings. In some traditions, it's thought that souls actually evolved from lower life forms such as animals to higher, like humans, and some people believe that Hinduism and Buddhism believes in reincarnation, and some people believe that reincarnation was part of Christianity in the early days. And so, how do you reconcile differences of teachings in different religions like this?

Do you have a sort of a firm belief that it has to be, you know, this way, or do you feel like some a little bit theoretical about some of these ideas? >> I suppose I can only all the time tell everyone what God and the angels have taught me. I can't do anymore. And yet, I would have all different faiths come to talks, even Buddhists and all, because I can remember them in the audience, and they still come up for the blessing

and everything like that, all different faiths. And I think that's wonderful because we all have to come together, regardless of what our beliefs are. I would never say to anyone, don't put your beliefs to one side. You know, I would never condemn anyone if that's what they

believe now. I can only give the message and then it's up to yourself. In time, I have had many priests and sometimes bishops and sometimes imams and sometimes, I don't know all the names of the different religions, ministers and all come and ask me a question that I actually got a terrible shock when they asked, and that was when they asked me, was God real? Even though they were priests or ministers or something? Yeah, and rabbis, and I know there's loads of names and imams and

Right, so they had doubts. Yeah, and that because I felt, "But aren't you the head of a particular religion? Surely you know God is real." I was shocked the first time I was asked In that way, they would just ask, "Lorna, is God real?" And I have to say to you, "Yes. No matter what you believe, God is real." >> Sometimes God is portrayed in a way that might actually shake people's faith because they feel like, "Well, if God is all compassionate and loving,

and how could he be killing all these people or doing things like that? So, maybe that's what creates doubts in some of these people. >> I think, yeah, that would create doubt, but you have to remember one thing, and that is that it's not God that's killing all those people, it's ourselves. Us, humanly, are doing it. >> Well, you know, stories like Sodom and Gomorrah,

where the whole city gets wiped out, and stuff like that. >> That I have answered partly of that, I think it is in

Angels at My Fingertips or Stairways to Heaven, where the way I put it to be understood humanly, the old God and the new God, and the old God is God doing all those kinds of things, trying to guide man to be better than we are. And then the new God in the sense Jesus coming or whatever name you want to give God, another help us to love each other a little bit more, to show us the light in that way, to understand us.

part of God coming to I remember when I had written about that, again a lot of priests from all different religions came along and said, "Lorna, we thought God knew everything." And I said, "God does, but he finds it hard to understand us. It's the understanding. He sent another part of himself, Jesus, to understand us a little bit more and to leave us with a little bit more of love and compassion. That, in a sense, all the wrongdoings, all the killing and the force are wrong. If we could

love each other, we could reach for peace. We could come together as one. Perhaps it's hard for God to understand us the way it's hard for a parent to understand a rebellious teenager. Why are they acting so crazy? Dr. Dzungar And I think every parent goes through that

even though we think we're adults and we are children. And in a sense, we have, in the world today just become, what would you say, so concerned and pushed forward to go after all of the material things, but it's like as if the world is wakening up a bit and saying it's not all about material things, it's about love and hope and compassion, it's about enjoying life, feeling the air, the rain, smelling the flowers.

come to Ireland and even children and just seeing them, what would you say, the teenagers I have met so many people that have and everything like that out in the fields doing things, they always turn around and say this is the best time of my life. It's like as if suddenly going out into nature they're opened up in a way and they're more connected to nature and to themselves in that

way. I think we have lost a lot in the world today that we only see all the negative, all the dread, because so many people again I've met are full of fear because of all the, what would you call it, climate change, everything that is happening and governments and job loss and the lockdown that we have had. I know the lockdown was really hard and so painful for so many families, but I know God and the angels were there all of the time. That's

what we have to remember. And I know it was hard, extremely hard, because I know so many families that lost loved ones and suffered hugely. But lots of good has come out of that too. We have to see the good as well, and I think we find it hard to see the good. The only thing I can say when I'm on a farm lane here and sometimes I could look out

the window and I could see some people passing. And now everybody, more so than before, say hello to each other and stop and greet each other because during the lockdown you only could go so far and of course you loved to talk to someone, to meet a neighbor. And I think that has brought a lot of joy to people's lives. I know an elderly lady and her daughter and nobody would have spoken to them. You'd

very seldom see anyone stop and say hello, but since the pandemic everyone stops to say hello. That's nice. And talk to them for a few minutes and just to unemployed angels come and surround them. watch their guardian angels and sometimes It's just beautiful as well. So perhaps some tension was dissolved in the collective consciousness during that period and people are a little bit more uplifted

now. I know one thing that happened here in the States is that a lot of people, when they had to start working from home, they thought, "Wait a minute, why am I sitting in that cubicle five days a week? I don't like it. I like this changes and lifestyle changes and all kinds of things that that brought about. better." And there were a lot of job And that's good, good as well. One question that popped into my mind is, let's say that there are some people in India or

someplace like that who also have your kind of a perceptual ability. Do you feel that perhaps your angels present things to you in a certain way because you have a Christian upbringing, and their angels might present things in a way that's compatible with their Hindu or Buddhist upbringing, and that's perfectly appropriate because that's the culture in which you were raised and in which you function. [MG] That's a lovely question, and I'm asking the angels,

is that so, and the only answer I'm getting is partly. [MG] Okay, can they elaborate? [MG] No, they're not elaborating. I'm so sorry. They're just saying partly. I have been invited to go to India to give talks as well, but it's so far away. That's the only thing that turns me off going as such. But I have met many people from India that have come to Ireland or have come to other parts of of Europe to see me as well. And it's such a huge country.

around considered me retarded in that way and I'm severely dyslexic. So I have never planned anything, just God and the angels all my life have told me, they used to say, "Lorna, one day you will write."

As a child they would say that, and I couldn't even write my name. Even as a teenager they said the same thing, and as an adult, and even when I got married, of course I had to learn to write my name then, but it's still very hard to do so, and I would get my children to write the notes for the school teachers, and I would sign it, you know,

I would sign it. And to me, the most incredible thing is that everything that God has said I'm actually still in shock that the book Angels in My Hair happened and that it became a bestseller would happen in my life has happened. and that I'm sitting here now talking to you. Wow, that's incredible. My mind and myself is still be blown away every day with what's happening but I always say to everyone it's not about me

at all. It's about you and I'm not the important one. I'm nothing. You're the important one. Sometimes I don't even know how to explain that, but when you can't read or write, what a gift you have, because you can read and write. I would love to be able to pick up a book and read it, and I love books. If I see a shelf full of books, I'll go over to them and pull them out and feel them and go through the pages. I'm just sharing stuff with you.

>>Rick: Sure. Firstly, Angels in My Hair was a lovely book. I really enjoyed it. And even though it was autobiographical, it wasn't all about you. It conveyed a teaching in every passage. And one thing just to mention in passing is that both your childhood and your married life were really quite impoverished financially. It wasn't easy. So, I'm really glad that you did write the

the book and that it kind of lifted you out of poverty because you deserve it. And the book is having a wonderful effect on people all over the world. To me that is the most important thing, that it's helping people. I hear from people all of the time and they keep telling me it has changed their life, it has given them a new perspective on life. And even when I hear on the news about the homeless and those hungry, I understand that because I was homeless.

I know I put it in the book a little bit in that way and it mightn't even have been noticed,

but I even know what it's like to be hungry. And I think so many of us nowadays, because there's so much going on in the world and there's so many food banks now to help families, but I still think that a lot of people don't realise what it is like to be hungry, thinking of what can you put on the table for your children and you don't eat yourself, or what you can put on the table for your husband because he's a diabetic and he has to have or he'll go into a hypo or something like that.

And this is why I think we have to soul and a guardian angel, and that God is real so that we can grasp onto that hope, reach out and realise that we have a have that faith. And it doesn't matter what religion you are or whether you belong to none, or whether you say, "I believe in nothing," but we all need hope in our life. We all need to have that faith that we will get through it and that someone will give us a helping hand.

I often say it doesn't have to cost you much to give someone a helping hand. You know, the angels are always telling people to give that smile or to open that door to show kindness, but sometimes we're so hurt ourselves that we're all enclosed like this because we're so hurt and we're saying to ourselves, "Well, no one has helped me, so why should I help anyone else?" but you have to, in that enclosed with your arms around you, try and love you so you can help someone

else and so you can help yourself because it brings light and love into your life. And I know everyone can do it and that's why you have this beautiful guardian angel that never leaves you for a second. And I always remember being asked the Lorna, do you mean in the bathroom as well?" And I said, "Yes!" Because the angels don't question,

look on us in the same way as we look on ourselves. And it was lovely, what would I say, to hear the laughter when I answered that question, just as you laughed that time. >>Rick: Yeah. I actually have a whole list of questions about guardian angels that I want to get to, but let me pop in a few questions from the audience that came in. One is from Catherine Martin in Arles, France. She says, "I've been seeking for a few years, making a sincere effort.

If someone is seeking for their angel but not having any results, what is the best way to proceed or persist? Could my head be too full of interviews and reading? Should I stop seeking and let go? Why does it happen to some people seemingly out of nowhere?" >> Maybe she's trying too hard. Maybe she should just stop everything for a moment. and I always say to everybody, "What have you got to lose? You've nothing to lose."

And just to believe your guardian angel is there and talk to your guardian angel, ask it for guidance to show you what way to go. I always say, "Your guardian angel can teach you so many things." If my guardian angel said to me, "Lorna, now pick up this glass." So I picked it up. My guardian

Angel didn't say that, okay? It's only teaching you. Your Guardian Angel will never ask you to do anything wrong, but it's just teaching you how to respond. And I would say to that lovely lady, ask for a sign, something simple. Most people will ask for a feather or a flower, and I have seen so many times where a person finds a feather in an unusual place. It's not that they're going down the road and there's loads of birds there and there's feathers all over the place.

Sometimes it can be in a drawer, sometimes they find it in the house. I remember one lady saying she found a feather in her shoe the first time in her life. After having asked for one? After having asked for one, yeah, and you would keep on asking and sometimes somebody would ask for a That sometimes is hard, okay, because another human being has to respond and give you that bunch of flowers.

bunch of flowers out of the blue. But I have often been shown where a child picks a little wildflower and goes over to a stranger and gives it to the stranger, but the stranger doesn't recognize that's the bunch of flowers. So be open because your guardian angel could be saying to you, go and get Mary or John. Say you're looking at some daffodils, you're passing a shop or there's a few daffodils in your garden and suddenly the thought comes into your mind about a neighbor

and the flowers. You should pick two or three of them, it doesn't have to be a big bunch, and give them to the person who came into your mind. Just say, "Here, these are for you." Because they often tell me they find it hard to get people to answer that request for another person. Always the angels, remember whoever you gave those flowers to, you probably saved their life.

So you're saying that if a little thought like that pops into your mind, "Maybe I should give Mrs. Jones a flower," it could have been planted by an angel in your mind. Yeah, exactly. We don't do that enough. And yet, if you received something out of the blue from someone and you were feeling down, it would cheer you up and it would give you hope. It would help you to say to yourself, "Well, this good thing has happened to me today. Someone gave me a flower.

Someone showed kindness and love towards me by just giving me the flower." And you could hand them to a stranger. It's like sometimes I was often back a few years ago sitting in a little cafe having my cup of coffee or cup of tea and then my guardian angel telling me on the way out, "Get another cup of coffee or tea." And I'd go out carrying this cup of coffee or tea and I would be saying to my guardian, "Well, I don't really want it. Who is it for?"

And I could walk down the road. I'm a fast walker. Seemingly, that's what I've been told. I'm a fast walker. And then suddenly I might be told to turn left and I would see someone and just give them a cup of tea and say, "This is for you." And it's not necessarily even a homeless person. It could be someone sitting on a bench and you have given them a cup of tea and you just keep walking. You don't sit down and start chatting. I would just give it to them and say, "This is for

you." Always remember, we can save somebody's life. We can give them hope. By just showing that little

bit of kindness. Many a time I would be shown so many things and I would just go over and show that little bit of kindness and keep going then because I would know just that little bit of kindness has given somebody such an uplift. If one person can be kind to me today, maybe others will and I can be kind to others. It's like spreading the good, the love. Can we assume that our guardian angels read our thoughts routinely and therefore if we're

cognizant that they're doing that, we can assume that they know what's going on with us? Or is it necessary to more specifically make an appeal of some kind, a prayer or a statement or some some kind of communication? - They already know. So I love the first part of your question. They already know, but it's good for us, ourselves, for our human self, to talk to your guardian angel or to write a letter to your guardian angel or to give out to your guardian angel to say, "I need a helping hand."

But they already know, they're already working on trying to get that helping hand for you, get that guidance for you. Maybe you're stressed or worried about your job or something like that and you just say, "Come on, guardian angel, please give me a helping hand." And maybe a thought comes into your head, go and meet a particular friend for a cup of tea and you

go and meet them. And then that gives you an opportunity to talk about the situation of your job, because maybe that person is able to help to get you to focus or to help you to make the right decision. But another thing I always say to people, many, many a time, you already know what's the right thing to do. But sometimes we listen to everybody else, and we go the way everyone else says. And afterwards, we say to ourselves, I should have gone the other way. I knew it all the time. That

was your guardian angel. So sometimes it's, it is hard for us humanly sometimes to figure out what's right, what's the right decision to make. But just remember if your guardian angel

says to you, "Pick up that glass of water, even if you don't want it, pick it up." We're in the habit of being lazy and not bothering. to you later today, it just came into your mind you should get up and go for a walk. All you have to Or just say your guardian angel said do is get up and go for that walk, whether it is just a two minute walk or a three minute walk, it's just teaching you. You don't ask why, it's just teaching you. It's just like a child never

asks why it's been taught something. It just keeps trying to do it until it can do it really well. and I'd love everyone to get really good at that because it makes life much easier.

Of course, most people won't realize, "Oh, my guardian angel's asking me to take a walk," but what you're saying, I think, is that we should get in the habit of being aware of these subtle impulses, intuitions that come to us and, you know, not ignore them, but realize that they could be coming from some guardian angel or some more divine level of awareness, and that if we act on them, perhaps it will become more habitual and our whole life will be guided that way.

[L] People would often say to me, "Lorna, I started practicing listening on that intuition of, say, going for a walk or going into a certain cafe," and they would often say, "Well, I would never have met that person I met that was able to change my life or I was able to change theirs, only for I listened. So, the angels are always guiding us. God is always guiding us, and at the moment, lots of people might be feeling, well, where is God in their life? Where is their

guardian angel in their life? But your guardian angel is right there, and even the soul of your loved one is right there as well. >> Okay, this next question is from Irene. "If one fully believes in angels and other celestial beings and prays to them for help with something serious and yet nothing comes of it, what's your own make of that? Are they out there trying to get through, so to speak? I love the question. I never pray to an angel or any other, you use that word, I can't pronounce

this. I only pray to God and I only, in a sense, ask God and God all the time helps, the angels help as well. They come with the messages for me at different times. I know many people would pray and ask. It could be that you want your child to live or you want someone to get better or you want someone to be healed in some way or for yourself to

be healed in some way and you pray and pray and you ask and you don't get it. You literally don't get it, and you in a sense are angry and annoyed, and you say, "I don't believe anymore, that's it." But I've met so many people that have said that to me, and they have said as well that they were glad they never got it because of where they are now. >> That's true. [laughs] >> You know, where they are if they had got that. And this is why I always say that

God knows what's right for you. So if you

don't get something, don't tear yourself apart over it. If you can, and I know sometimes it's hard, just let it go. Now I know that depends on what it is, just let it go, because I know in the future you'll be so glad that you didn't get it. But many people get what they pray for as well.

sort it, but they played their part as well. I would often have somebody say, you know, They get a good outcome, something got I've been praying to God and asking God for romantic love, that's the most common one, for love to come into my life or for a job, but then you find they're not doing anything for that to happen. They're staying in behind the closed door and I would say to them, well, that romantic partner is not going to come and knock on your door and say, hey, come out for a

date. You have to put yourself out there as well. You have to play your part. And the same for a job. No matter how many times you're turned down, you still need to keep applying. I always remember this young man telling me that he worked in a company for something like six years, and then the company closed up and he started to apply for different jobs, kind of the same thing. And he said, "Lorna, I wasn't getting any of them." And I was asking my guardian angel, "What are you doing?

What's God doing? What's happening?" And then one day, I can't remember what he was looking at, but he saw a job advertised for something completely different. And he knew nothing about it, had no experience, but it was to do with forestry. I don't know exactly what it was, but he got the job and he's still in the job. He loves it, so I'm sure he has been qualifying himself

as time goes in. But sometimes again, I think when you're looking for a particular job, sometimes maybe look a little left or a little right if you're not getting what you think you should only be getting, because you could be brought in another direction. Yeah, the Rolling Stones sang you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you might find you get what you need.

>> Exactly. You get what you need, and when you get what you need, it's much, much better by a million times than what you wanted, or what you believed you wanted. >> I have a bunch of questions about what angels look like, but I don't think we have time to ask them all. What function do angels' wings serve? I've heard you mention that many of the angels you've seen have wings, but they wouldn't need them to fly. I presume they could just float or hover

if they wanted to, so why do many of them have wings? That's a lovely question. I don't always see wings, and when I do see wings, to me it's like a privilege. I think why angels have wings is because it's something that mankind way back put on angels. They don't need them. So that actually relates to another question. Do they kind of appear to people in a way that would make sense to people, such as having wings, but maybe that's not their real form,

or real appearance, if they have a real appearance? They just project an appearance that people can relate to? Yeah, that's why I always say angels are a light, and within that light, they give a human appearance, something that we would recognize. So, again, it would be whatever tradition you're from, the angel will give that appearance within that light as well.

and the public could go in and walk around. But that particular day I was with Archangel Michael, and just seeing those two priests, and they had prayer books in their hands, and they said hello to Archangel Michael and he acknowledged them, but it was like as if I wasn't there. Yeah, they were probably trying to be good priests and not look at the women, you know. Well, they ignored me completely. I felt the invisible one. It was like as if I was made

invisible and they just saw Archangel Michael. But the one thing I loved about Archangel Michael, He always, if he makes himself visible, he will dress in whatever others are dressed in. So, he was dressed like a priest, so there was no question. >> Do angels always appear solid to you, or are they somewhat ethereal or translucent? Like, could you see through them a little bit? >> They're translucent, and I have talked a

little bit about the depth of an angel as well. It's like as if you could step into an angel and it will go on and on. They are translucent. Are they self-luminous? Could you see them in a pitch dark room or do you need some illumination? I love that question now that you're asking because I'm writing a book at the moment with a scientist. And that was one of the questions he asked me. And I just said to him, "God, I don't know. It has never dawned on me because no one has ever asked that."

And that night I went to bed, the lights were off, and I got under the blankets. And I was tired and I just wanted to go to sleep. And the next minute and I could see it clearly. an angel puts its hand on my shoulder, Even though you had your eyes closed? Yes, even with my eyes closed.

And I just said, "Go away and leave me alone." "Let me sleep." So it answered his question, yes, in the dark I can, and even with my eyes closed. So presumably, even if you were to go blind, you would still see them? Yeah. Well, please God, now I never go blind. No, we don't want that to happen. I think, you know, when you're talking about that, I do believe I see through my human eyes, but I see through the eyes of my soul as well.

It's like as if the eyes of my soul are looking out through my human eyes. That's the only way I can explain. This is a good question from Cynthia Edwards in Santa Cruz, California. You know how it is that people have all kinds of crazy thoughts pop into their heads and sometimes they act on them. Her question is, how do you know it's your guardian angel asking you to pick up the glass of water or whatever and not your monkey mind playing games with you?

I suppose I would just say to her, the one thing to remember is that your guardian angel or any angel will never ask you to do anything wrong. So if you're being asked to pick up a glass of water, that's not doing anything wrong. But if you're thinking of doing something wrong that might be spiteful or hurtful or anything like that, that's not your guardian angel. That's your human self.

Right, I do have a section of questions that hopefully we'll get to about good and evil and how there could be evil influences and so on. I've heard you mention a number of different kinds of angels. You know, we've talked about guardian angels quite a bit, we can talk more, there are unemployed angels, the angel of hope, American gathering angels, healing angels, archangels, so many different types. I suppose like I see angels helping human beings and nature so much all of the time. And to

me that is quite incredible. And the first time I was a child when I saw the unemployed angels, and the only way I can explain those angels is, it's like as if sometimes when I would look up at the sky, and I would be told to look up, it's like as if there is this big, huge, enormous bucket and the bucket always looks dark and silver. It's like the light of the earth reflecting on it and it's like it's turned upside down and I just see

these unemployed angels. It's like as if they're rolled up in a ball but as they're coming down towards the earth, tumbling down, and then slowly as they get closer, just as they come to the earth, they, what would you say, unwind, they come out of that ball unwind and just stop. And that is beautiful to see because I see so many unemployed angels and that's what I unemployed, so I have left the name called them when I was a child, 'unemployed', but to see them there

to help everyone. And one thing about the unemployed angels, and I have never said this, and I know it goes for all angels, but I see them helping everyone. I would even see them helping, you know, I have often seen a group of who would be considered maybe not the best person, not a good person, and yet they would be there. unemployed angels around someone That's what I love about angels. They help us no matter what, and that's hard to explain.

It's kind of something that I think is lacking in us human beings as such, and yet I see the angels and these unemployed angels. I always remember this young man and he's beating up somebody else,

and then somebody else gave him a belt and he fell, and everybody was screaming or whatever, and things happen so quickly. And yet, unemployed angels just appeared from nowhere, within seconds, and they were around him and around the others as well. It was like there was no, "You're not worthy of help." Everybody was worthy of help. And I suppose I would love to see more of that love and compassion in human beings. And I always remember the young man was taken away in an

ambulance and then somebody else that he had hurt was being attended to as well. But seeing the unemployed angels reaching out even to those that were helping the other person, reaching out and touching them, it was like as if they were helping to take away the pain and helping the medics to do what they're meant to do. I suppose you can ask for an unemployed angel for yourself, but you can ask for unemployed angels for the stranger,

the person you don't know as well. And that's one thing I've always done with unemployed angels is ask them to go out into the world and help anywhere they possibly can. They're kind of like freelancers. Yeah, they are. We have our own guardian angels pretty much stuck with us, but there's some guys that are on call to go and attend to certain situations.

Yeah, I would often see them. I could be in Dublin or a smaller city and there's lots of people around going in different directions and just seeing the unemployed angels weaving in and out and among them and then suddenly seeing an unemployed angel stop. And once I saw an unemployed angel stop,

I knew exactly what had happened. I knew that that person, no matter who they were or anything like that, had actually asked for a bit of help, and the unemployed angel just stopped to give them a hand, whatever it was. >> One thing I find fascinating about all this is, let's say extraterrestrials were to land on the White House lawn, it would make a big splash. I mean, it'd be all over the headlines all over the

world. And because we think, "Oh, there are these forms of life that we didn't know about, now we see them." But ironically, in the world that's teeming with forms of life all around us that we are completely oblivious to, and it doesn't make the news. It's kind of fascinating that there's this whole menagerie of subtle life forms everywhere, and most people are just totally unaware of them. [MG] Yeah, they are unaware of them, an awful lot of people,

but I think a lot of people are becoming more and more aware. I find even when I'm with teenagers, or if I was invited into a school or anything like that. Even young people are more open than we realize. Sure. Not that they perceive them, but they believe them. Yeah, they believe they're there and they can tell you stories, you know, about how they have already helped them. Okay, so we've established that everybody has a guardian angel.

That I guess would mean that there are as many guardian angels in the world as there are people.

Yeah, definitely. Okay, so they're not unemployed. How is it determined who your guardian angel is going to be? I have written, I think it is, in Angels at My Fingertips. I think I have talked about, I'm not quite sure which book. I give a little bit more information into each book as I go along,

but not too much because I don't want to overwhelm people. But your guardian angel, when you were in heaven, when God created your soul and you were in the Sea of Souls, I was shown where the Sea of Souls has thousands of souls are there that have even to be born yet to come into our world. And I was shown one particular soul standing there and how would you say it? I call it the Sea

of Souls and looking around and waiting for the Guardian Angel to come. And it was like when the guardian angel appeared, that particular soul recognized and knew that was its guardian angel, and when they met, they embraced in love. And I'm skipping some of it, and then at another stage, the guardian angel stood, I was shown in front of God with that soul, and God appointed that

guardian angel there and then for that soul to be the gatekeeper of that soul. At the very moment of conception, your soul came at that very, very moment when your mom conceived. - Came into a physical world. Into existence or into your mom's body? - Into your mom's body. Because it's like it happens at the very moment of conception. So, even at the very moment of conception, you're not a baby, you're just a tiny little, little egg. A few cells. Yeah, a few little things at that very moment.

And you knew before then even, you knew everything that would happen within your life, but it's like you don't fully remember it, or sometimes you might have some little, say, "Oh, I knew that would happen, but that would have been your guardian angel guiding what would you call it, kind of tweaks, you might you as well, even as a little child." David Let's say someone has, Henry David Thoreau said, "Most men lead lives of quiet desperation."

And there are billions of people in the world who have really tedious, boring jobs. Obviously, guardian angels have a different mentality than humans because it's boring enough to have to do such a job, but to have to sit there and watch somebody do such a job would be even more boring. I know guardian angels don't get bored. Right, they couldn't. It would be a terrible job if they did. Yeah, they don't get bored. But some people have often said to me, their job is boring.

They don't like it. They complain about it. And then I asked them the one question, "Well, what's the wages like?" many a time they turn around and tell me, "Well, the wages is great." And then I would say to them, "Well, then you shouldn't be bored of your job. You should do the best you can. And if you're getting a good wages, then that's giving you means to do other things that you don't have to do."

Well, the wages aren't always great though. Somebody might be working in some sweatshop, you know. Yeah, I know that as well. But even when I worked in the school scrubbing the floors of that. It was literally only pennies, but the angels always taught me never to say I was bored or annoyed with the job because the money I received for doing that work,

and I would do the best I possibly could, just meant so much. So I know if you're bored with your job, I know that can be hard, but maybe look at the positive things within it. maybe, if you feel you can get another job somewhere else, go and look. But don't leave your job until you have a job. I don't want you out of work.

>> This is a bit of an abrupt shift here, but I've heard many stories of people, let's say, going into a bookstore and having a particular book just fall off the shelf in front of them, sometimes opening to a particular page that they need to see. Do angels do that sort of thing? They actually can push a book off a shelf? >> Yeah, that does happen. I'm so surprised at that because I would never have been in a bookstore at all in my life

until Angels in My Hair came out, remember. And I've been told that story all over the world that Angels in My Hair or one of my books fell from a shelf or they walked into a shop and there was boxes on the floor and the top book was one of my books. And they decided to pick it up and have a look. Has that happened to you? Not so much, but I've had some things. I'll tell you a really quick story. One time I was in this facility, it wasn't near a town, I needed a bunch of things, I got moved to a

different room and most of the things I needed were in that room. But I also needed some decorative shoe buckles that had broken off my shoes because they had gotten wet and I put shoe trees in them and they dried and the buckles broke off. So where would I get

something like that. So I was walking to dinner in the evening and I was passing an air conditioner in the hallway and something caught my eye on top of the air conditioner. I looked up there and there was a pair of decorative shoe buckles that fit my shoes, not the ones that had broken off. So little thing like that, you think, "How did that happen? Who organized that?" All that I can say is the angels have organized it, or maybe even the soul of a loved one,

again giving you a sign and giving you hope. You know, you were going off for dinner, who are you going to meet? I don't know. So many strange things happen to us at different times, and a lot of the time people have a spiritual experience, but they think it's too strange and they're afraid to share it in case people laugh at them and ridicule them about it or say you're crazy. I remember one woman

telling me a young woman that her grandmother had died when she was a child. And she saw her grandmother walk into her bedroom and she was afraid to tell her mom or anybody else because she was afraid she'd be ridiculed. And she just said, "My grandmom walked into the bedroom." And at that time, she was going through a stressful time in school, being bullied and everything like that. And she said she was just so nervous and full of anxiety. And her grandmother,

she said the door opened and she looked up thinking it was her mom coming in. And it was her grandmom and her granny came in and sat on the edge of the bed. She said it looked like as if she sat on the edge of the bed. And she told me everything will be all right here with you. She was just afraid to share it with anyone until now she's in her 50s and now she shares it.

I interviewed a woman named Pamela Wilson a couple times, she's a friend of mine, and she had an experience when she was a teenager where she just had this burning desire to know the truth. What's life all about? I'm just going to insist that somebody come through this door and tell me what the truth is all about. So she went to bed and she woke up in the middle of the night and there was a little Indian man sitting on her bed, and she threw a pillow at him.

And then later on, she saw a book that had a picture of Ramana Maharshi on the cover, and she said, "That was the guy!" And people have experiences like that with Jesus and all kinds of things. So, I'm wondering, like, are these deceased saints actually visiting people, or maybe it's an angel assuming their appearance or something? Dr. Debra: No, it's the souls of our loved ones, and sometimes a soul is sent to give someone

guidance, like for your friend. You know, this story I haven't told in a long time, but many years ago I met this woman and she told me this story that when she was a child and she was in the back of the car with other siblings and her dad driving the car, they were in a crash. But in the crash, she said, we would have gone over the cliff, but she said, I saw an angel in front of the car with its hands on the bonnet, this enormous angel that stopped the car. And she said she never

shared that with anyone until later in life. And again, so many things happen all of the time and we're afraid to share them. We shouldn't be afraid to share them because, remember,

when you share a story with someone, even if they don't seem to quite take you serious, maybe laugh at you a little bit or say, "Ah, go away. You were drinking," or they'll say, "You were half asleep." But you have told them the story and it's in their mind. That can help them as well to open up spiritually in some way. It's like we're afraid to talk about our guardian angel, but we're even afraid to say, "I believe in God," or "I believe in Jesus," or "I believe in Allah."

we're afraid because we're afraid we'll be ridiculed. And why should we be afraid? I don't understand that. I know I get ridiculed and laughed at and I'm told I'm crazy, but it doesn't matter because I always remember saying to God, you know, when Angels in My Hair was written and it got out there into the world.

it, my work was done. But God said, "No, your work is not done." So to me, if you save someone's life, If it saved one person's life, that was or you save a tree, or you save a river, or you save part of this life that's on our planet, this part of creation that is part of God, life is well worth it. It's actually priceless. So why should we be afraid to say, "Well, I thank God today for everything, for all my blessings,"

regardless of what they were? Or you're leaving your job and you're saying, "Thanks be to God, that was a good day." And what does it matter if your co-workers hear you say that? >> Yeah, I've always enjoyed being a bit of an oddball and haven't cared too much what people think about me. Maybe when I was a teenager, I was more self-conscious and lacking confidence, and yeah, it was more that way. But after a while, I just thought, "To heck with it, I'm just gonna be me."

And, you know, it's kind of worked out. I think we all have to be ourselves. I love the way you brought it up, "Be me." And I think that's even important for teenagers to be themselves, not to try to be someone else. And I always think it's very sad nowadays that, you know, in school, children have to be taught empathy. They have to be taught how to love, to care and share. But yet I meet so many teenagers of all ages and they just say, Lorna, I believe in my virgin

angel, but I can't tell anyone. Or I'm giving a talk somewhere and at the blessings, you know, it's all families. It could be teenagers and smaller children. And the parents turn around to me just before I start to bless the children and they say, "Lorna, can you tell me the guardian angel's name?" And I have to smile at that because I ask the child, "What's your guardian angel's name?" with the teenager. And 9.9 times out of 10, the child tells me

the guardian angel's name. And of course the parents go, "Why didn't the child tell them?" but it's personal to the child as well. And I always tell the teenager or the 10 or 12 year old,

remember the name, because the world can push that name out of your mind by telling you there's no such thing as your guardian angel. But as a child, you know there is because when you were an infant, you saw your guardian angel is clearly and as physically as I see them today. All infants do? all infants do. And then I heard you say that they lose it by about the age of three or so. Yeah, because we're brainwashing our children. I've been telling parents to say, if a mother is

pregnant, when your baby is born, ask your baby, don't just teach it to say, "Mama, Dada." Ask your child as well, say, "How's your guardian angel?" or "How's your soul?" Because that child will grow up more open and will do, what would I say, a lot of good in the world, because they will be more compassionate, will have more love to give, because they won't be so afraid. Did you talk about this stuff with your children as they grew up? No, I didn't. I was all the time told to

keep it a secret. It's a real strange my children knew it. And when the time came after my husband had died, I had said to someone story because I couldn't read or write and I had just met, a neighbour, "I'm going to write." And you can imagine if I said that to you years ago and you knew I couldn't read or write, you'd probably just look at me. Well, my neighbour just looked at me and said, "Yeah, okay." And then I don't know how long afterwards,

a knock came to the door, and I know I have it in the book as well. And again, it was someone I had met. I can't say names. He said he had a gift for us, and it was two big boxes. And I remember giving him a cup of tea, and it was a laptop and a printer and a Dragonette speak to speak into. And you can imagine me not even knowing how to do this. And then when I came down

here to the farmhouse where I live now. Again, someone I had just met, a husband and wife, a neighbor here, I just told them straight out I wanted to write, because the angel said, "Say it." And I said to them, "I can't read or write." And I showed him this laptop and this printer, and he set it all up. And he'd done it in such a way that he said, "Lorna, you press this button and this button all the time. And that's the way it will work for you. And you just speak.

So you dictated it. Yeah. And that's what I did. So just because you might feel you're different than someone else because you're dyslexic or because you have a disability, I think sometimes someone says a disability, you still can live life to the full. And I always remember when Angels in My Hair came out, I had so many college students in Dublin coming to the book

signings and just saying, "You gave us great hope," because I was dyslexic. And it's all about giving hope, and I thank God for that every day, for every life that has been touched or given hope, give them encouragement. It's so important. So, no matter what faith you are, or even if you say you're not of any faith, it doesn't matter. Be the best person you possibly can be.

Good. You've seen many possible futures, both positive and negative, and it sounds like any one of these could eventually manifest, but at the end of Chapter 10 of Angels in My Hair,

You mentioned that you believe a day will come where all the good that exists within everyone will become triumphant and will overcome the bad in the world and we'll have a whole different civilization. So, perhaps we could talk about that in our remaining time. >> I do believe that will happen. The good in us, you know, will open up spiritually,

that intertwining will happen, and that we will become one nation. At times I speak about, I have given just a few of the wonderful futures I have seen, okay, but it's not just one of those wonderful futures. They all come together, all those positive futures come together, and I believe mankind can do it. I'm still here in the world, and by the way, I shouldn't be here. Yeah, you had a near-death experience. I've had more than one.

medically. I'm one that, what would you say, I'm not the ordinary human being can be here today and suddenly in the hospital and they don't know what to do. The body just crashes. But God has me here and each and every one of us have to believe that we are here to live life to the fullest and to change this world, to make it that

heaven. And I know we can do it. And I know in some of the futures, I said, where the children beautiful place like that little glimpse of give out because they're only looking at photographs of birds, butterflies, flowers, and they're saying to us, who are here today alive, "Why did we destroy them all?" But we already know the good part of that is that here and now, at the moment, we know we have to do something to save

nature, and I know we can do it, because again, another positive future is where the children can see through the eyes of their soul. They have intertwined completely, and mankind at the moment thinks that, what would I say, I have to smile, that we know everything, almost, or that we have learned everything, almost. I can assure you, you haven't. Oh, there were people in the 1800s who said that kind of thing.

I just have to smile because writing this book with the scientists and the questions they have asked, and the answers I have given, they're blown away by that. But I have said, know, and now they're discovering more but surely you knew that, and they're saying

and more. We have so much to... it's not to learn, I know that's a human word, but it's like to discover and realize that, like even watching the children and what they were doing with the grass and how they could see it and how they could see the life of the grass. You just see grass, you just look at it, and just watching them. And I know when I say this, people think, "Oh, that's crazy. That's not real." but these children were seeing it

When I say that these children walked across the river without a bridge. This was a deep river. This is something that actually has happened now or that you envision in the future? It's part of the future. I see. So they might be able to walk on water. No, they didn't actually walk on the water. No one has asked that question. They didn't. Why I say they walked across without a bridge, a bridge is always above the water. They walked across above the water. They didn't even get their feet wet.

They like hovered above the water. Not in that way. It was like as if they were walking, but walking on the air, but not hovering. So in other words, you're envisioning a time when people will have miraculous abilities, such as the kind of things Jesus did, but it will be more commonplace. But it will be normal. Normal, right. It's just like it's normal for me to see the angels physically, to see the souls of loved ones, and so much more that I see that I don't talk about as well.

Well, that sounds like fun. Do you have a sense of a timeline? I mean, there are some people who say, "Well, the way climate change is going, we could have very catastrophic outcomes even within this decade, billions of people might die." Do you have any sense of how things are going to unfold, and when? Well again I would say God has me here and I'm giving you the messages and I know we can do it, no matter what happens I know we can do it and I don't want anyone if at all

possible to lose their life. I want us all to make this planet like the little glimpse of heaven and we can start that. a lot of people are full of fear because we don't want things to change, but things are changing We have already started and I know a and we ourselves are changing. We ourselves are reaching inside of us to that spiritual part. It's like it's, you know, that intertwining has to start and I believe it has already started. So

to me, if I'm here in the world, there is great hope and I don't know why. I'm just saying that because I shouldn't be here. You know, so there's, why does God have me here? I know I'm the messenger

and giving the messages, and they're in the books and on different things I do, and even the sanctuary here in Ireland. That's a complete mystery. I don't have money, and yet this has happened. Everything is, it's mind-blowing, but we can save this I know we can. I believe you. I believe we world. can too.

We can't just sort of relax and expect it to just happen, we have to do things to make it happen, but I do believe there's some kind of spiritual epidemic taking place in the world that is the hope of the world. Well, we all have to play our part and I always say, what have you got to lose? You've nothing to lose yourself a chance. So, give it a go. You have nothing to lose whatsoever. in just believing. You have to give

>> Except unhappiness and fear and things like that. You can lose those. >> I would say to you a lot of that fear and unhappiness can disappear as well. >> Sure. >> You know, once hope comes in and all the governments and all the people in power, they can't take hope away from us. They can't take love away from us. They may be trying to do it, to, in a sense, to have power and control over the world. But it's like we will triumph. I know we

will. Yeah. Okay, you mentioned the sanctuary, and I was looking at your website and talking to your daughter before we started, and you have this lovely place in Ireland there, which you offer retreats quite regularly, and it seems fairly small. So, the retreats aren't hundreds of people, they're fairly intimate, I gather. Well, we have a lot of them that are very intimate, because that seems to be what people are looking for,

smaller groups. But we will be doing bigger groups where it'll be just a one day. Okay. Just one day, but small groups for people that are coming for three or five days. One group there I had just a little while ago, from America, and I just thought it was so beautiful because they were teachers, well-educated, they were all teachers, and they all came

and they had learned so much. They said that what they had learned at the sanctuary over those five days is going to help them to be better teachers, but to be better people themselves, better loving husbands or loving wives or or whatever is within their lives. I always smile the way God seems to do it because sometimes a group could be

psychologists and doctors and nurses. It's like as if God gathers them all and say, "Here Lorna, you need to talk with these people here as a small group." as well, we get people to get back into nature. And one thing I have been shown is that a school And we do a lot more at the sanctuary will be there one day, but not a school like what schools are at the moment. It's like children will come from all over the world for a few weeks at a time. Teenagers will come. And the other part,

what I love is even college students will come. But it's like one part I have to smile at that God has shown me, and this is where God has shown me this bus has come, and they have come for, I think, four weeks or something like that. And in the vision I was shown was that they were getting off the bus, and they were wearing good suits, good trousers, good shoes, and I remember at this vision just smiling and saying, "Why did they come dressed like that? Do they not know where they're

going. And later on, handing them Wellington boots and saying to them, "You go out and get your breakfast in the garden." They had to go out and pick their own breakfast and get their own eggs, but they were loving it. It was like spiritually companies were sending their executives, their office workers to connect back spiritually to nature. And it was like as if they were being, what would you say, plugged in and went back and were more radiant and more full of life.

It was a strange kind of vision. So I know people from all over the world will come to the center and it will just grow. And I can't tell you everything because I don't even know myself. All I know that in 300 years it will still be there and more. And that's an awful long time.

The only reason it's there is because someone found the book "Angels in My Hair" and it had such a huge impact and miracle in the family's life that that couple went in search of us and skipping loads of the story and came to Ireland, eventually found us. And here at the farmhouse, here for our family, you have saved us. We want to do something for you, so we'll build on they said, "Lorna, you have done so much

to your farmhouse, they said, so you can see more people. But God had other plans, because when we applied for planning permission, it was turned down. So that was fine. And then one day, my son was saying, we have to find somewhere that we can even rent for a weekend where people can come. And so my son and another lady were looking online and the young woman sent my son a link. It was like an auctioneer, you know, selling houses. And said to my son,

"Niall, just sending you this for a laugh." And my son looked at it and then he done the

strange thing. He sent me the link on the computer and he rang me and he said, "Mom, open your computer." So I pressed my buttons, opened the computer, and he said, "You see my name?" "No." He said, "Go and click on that." So I opened it and I got a terrible shock, because the first thing I saw on that link were these two pillars and this gate, and that's where Archangel Michael stood years before my husband Joe died and said to me, "Lorna, you will live here one day."

And I remember that day and my husband saying to me, because everything went in slow motion, "Are you all right?" And all as I could see the far side of those two pillars where Archangel Michael was standing was this tiny little and my husband was already quite ill and I said, "No way, we can't live in that, no way." But then roof the video link went down a long trail and inside the gates and came to this big, huge old house.

I think it's 16th century or something like that, 17th century. And my son sent it to that couple that had come to see us and just said, "We don't have any money, but I'm sending it to you anyway." And they bought it. So we don't have money, they bought it. So everything that is there,

others have done, which is incredible. And it's always related to where the impact of Angels in My Hair or something that I have done has helped within their life or within their family's life or has changed something, or it's like I do extreme cases as well, which I don't advertise, and that's where it could be a father's dying wish to come and spend time with me, and then the whole family come. So the farmhouse is quite small, or it could be a child, or it could be

a whole family, it could be anything. So there's a lot we do that people don't know, and of course we have the Children's Foundation as well, and we help there. But the sanctuary is just a miracle.

Why Ireland? Why has God done it here in Ireland? Why isn't it in America? Why hasn't the American Gathering Angels taken me over to America? I would say to God, even as a child, a teenager, I would always give out to God and say to Him, "Why didn't He make me a man? Why didn't He make me a man because I would say to God, "If I was a man, I would have got more attention." People would listen more. It's harder for a woman to give the message. Not to my mind. Well, that's good.

Well, that's just sharing a little Perfectly good message. story. That's beautiful. I appreciate you taking the time to tell that, and who knows, maybe you'll end up with a network of places and different continents I know all that part. Okay, that's one of those secrets you haven't told yet. and all. Great. Well, thanks so much, Lorna. I've thoroughly enjoyed, you know, reading your

books and listening to your videos and having this conversation with you. As always, I'll put up a page on Bath Gap that has some essential information, like a link to your website and links to your books. And people can go to your website and they'll find out much more detail about the retreats you're offering and anything else you may come up with in the future. Do you have a kind of an email list that people can sign up for to get notified of things?

I think per, see I can't do one, I think they have that. Yeah, so they can sign up for something like that. If there is ever anything I can do for you and your family, let us know. Or if you are ever coming to Ireland, let us know. All right, I definitely will. Anything, on your show. Oh, not so miraculous. I mean, you're a prime candidate for this kind of thing. because it's a miracle you're having us I think it is a miracle. It's incredible. And I have enjoyed chatting with you. And so

if there's ever anything we can do, let us know. Okay, well, thank you so much. And thanks to your daughter and other people who've been helping with this. There's a woman in New York, I believe, Beth, who has been very helpful. It's been nice dealing with her. >> I saw your wife there. Did she call in a little while ago to get the dog? >> Oh, she might have. She's sitting right, her desk is right to my left here. >> Right to your left. She's not beautiful.

>> Yes, she is. All right. Well, thanks. I hope you stay in good health and live a long life because you're doing wonderful work in the world. And it's been good getting to know you. We'll stay in touch. >> Yeah, We do that. So God bless and love you. Okay, thanks. Love you too. God bless. Thanks, Lorna.