My Future Put My Dreams To Shame ft. Tiffany D Cross

and campaigns while engaging different constituencies on the ground. She is a former DC Bureau Chief of b E T News Okay, and cut her teeth in media at CNN, where she worked as an associate producer covering.

was amazing. I think the woman whor name is Danielle, who started in Girl and Yell wasn't on the trip with us, but she had Renee, who's a friend of mine. That's how I found out about it, and a woman named Zama. They were our two guides, if you will of this this like. It was two weeks, almost two full weeks, and we landed in South Africa. We did

Johannesburg in Cape Town. Then we flew to Zimbabwe. No, yeah, we flew to Zimbabwe and from Zimbabwe we went to Botswana for a safari on land at Safari by Water and then we had dinner in Zambia. So four countries, two weeks. Every every hotel was better than the rest. The last hotel was my favorite, was owned by a Zambian woman. Oh, I'm gonna it's called Bono m A m A b oh. I don't want to get it wrong, but I'm gonna give her tenerary.

there's nothing they didn't think of. Yeah, I mean down to sometimes the day like hey, on this day, you could wear bright colors. South Africa women tend to wear these type you know, like everything you could think of it was excellent.

everybody speaks about four or five. I'm like, not me.

America that is like English only. You know, it's the same sect of people who are like, no, you know, we don't want any diversity or culture taught in schools. You know, we only want this fictionalized version of America taught in schools. And it's just baffling because it's like, why do you want your kids to be dumbered in mine.

that's where they don't even have rooms. You get a and I'm using the word humbly cottage cottage like so you get your own home that you live in. That is like I mean a claw foot tub in the middle of the bathroom. It looks like straight out of a magazine. And they have been featured in so many magazines. And the fact that it's own and run by this woman from Zimbabwe, this black African woman from Zimbabwe. The

experience like was, it just was top tier. And I just so I told her, I was like, girl, why are not the why the girl is not coming here? Victoria Falls, which is one of the Seven Wonders of the Natural World.

you said that. I thought you saying come here, but here you are with all the children and your Yeah, And so I just encourage, like, you know, to to when you're thinking about travel to include Africa. I have been all around the world and I have felt unsafe in some places and this was not one of them. This trip was not one of them. And so yeah, it was just excellent. But like I said, we'll do a breakdown because we got a guest in the house. We have some mess to talk.

I go to the continent and spend some money. But going to Africa reminds us that our stories do not begin when they say so. Our stories do not begin when we were kidnapped and raped and had the humanity beat out of us. In this country, we had a strong,

rich tradition of spirituality, religion, fashion, upward mobility. Imagine what Africa, the continent would be had it never been pillaged by Europe, you know, and what we would be right exactly exactly Africa is continuously when you go over there, you see a heavy presence by the Russians, by the Chinese president. She is like all over Africa, and they are making friends. Beyond investing in the continent, They're making friends with their leaders.

That's why when the whole Russian Ukraine conflict started getting more coverage, you saw some strange bedfellows. It was like, oh, the President's south there, evan food and we're kind of cozy there for a minute. And that's why. So the United States has not only step up their investment, but the United States citizens have to step up their intellectual curiosity and go go visit Africa. So I love that you went there, Tiffany. That's I'm excited that Myerian so like, hey went.

you know, their fame, fortune, money, time, energy, youth. You know, he always did well, And so you were like that seems odd as someone who was have all has all the success. How come no one else get success but you? And so when Cassie came out with her lawsuit, and then the following other lawsuits they came out, I don't think anyone I never heard. I didn't hear anyone gasp in surprise. Everyone's like, hmm, sounds about what I've heard

and I didn't read the details. Certainly some of them were shared on on social but it just sated horrific. The parts that did get kind of like shared.

But it didn't feel like he fully got the like the social reckoning, like the consumer reckoning that some of the some other people in media or entertainment have as a result. But this past week, what it started with the CNN video CNN got ahold of a video maybe you have some insight Tiffany into.

not paying you anything. And then when the New York Times story broke, if you go back and read because this is the first time that we heard about this publicly in a public setting, if you go back and read that New York Times article, it is line for line, like a transcript of what you see in the video that CNN later obtained. Here's the thing that I'll about this. It did not take the video for me to believe what happened. I read the Times piece and it was

clear I believe that this happened to this woman. Unfortunately, a lot of the social commentary is consistent with what it is so many other times, with it's a money grab, or if it was all that, then why didn't she leave? Or you know, they're trying to attack Sean Colmbs. And then you have that, you know, motip man of s fear, ignorant ass you know, foolish sect of society of people saying all their conspiracy theories because he had sued Diagio as the parent company of his liquor brand, and so

they're trying to take down this black man. The danger in that is we, as black women, are so often expected to hold not only our pain from these types of incidents, but hold the pain of our counterparts, hold the pain of our brethren. We ask young girls, you know, for generations, young girls, hold the secret of this adult man who touched to who violated you, because even we know how cruel and unforgiving the white man's criminal justice system is. And so immediately I admit, as black women

are sometimes in a compromising situation. I don't support believe all women. I believe listen to all women. But because of the racial, the ugly racial history in this country, when it comes to white women making false allegations against black men, I certainly understand hesitancy. What I don't understand is this immediate move to completely discard this woman's testimony

of what happened to her. So now that the video is out, there has been some shift in the public narrative of you know, people saying, oh, this is horrific. But the sad part is, why did you need that video? Why was her testimony not enough? Why was him paying her not enough? And I really can't put a lot of credibility in shan Colm's pseudo apology. I say apology and quotes because it was not exactly an apology. And how seriously can we take you in just one month

ago you were calling her a liar. Here's the sad fact. One in four women will face some sort of domestic violence in their lives from a partner. And this is something It can be mental abuse, physical abuse, stalking, any kind of thing. And sometimes, you know, we it's normalized in society with couples like you know, Blue Space and Chris Sean and you know, even Whitney and Bobby. You know, we kind of look at this train wreck of a

couple and laugh at it. And you know, it was like these cultural touchstones and in our feed and in our you know, conversation at brunch, and we have to stop normalizing these kind of toxic interactions because it starts out as verbal toxicity and eventually it will end up as physical toxicity. And so there's a divide happening in our community between black men and black women that I think we have to address. But the most important thing

is the domestic violence component. It is heartbreaking, and Cassie is re traumatized every time we watch this video. I haven't posted it, I haven't shared it. I invite other people not to post it or share it either, but it's heartbreaking to see what happened, and I hope that she's doing well.

public women who are public figures like Cassie. I see why she wait until the deadline, you know, for that lawsuit to go for it, and I just think it takes so much bravery for her to come forward and then to endure you know, the the you know, the statements that Diddie has put out it. I don't know obviously, I don't know her, but to see him do these like half ass you know, defense and apologies and to see him come out this week post video and try to play the born again man like I have been

seeking help. Why did you say that before? I don't know why the apology didn't come out before, like you said, well, the facts were there though, but something about the video, It's like people don't want to read and you know what I mean, the facts have been there, as Tiffany C said, but like he waited and I mean it completely. Like when I saw it pop up on my feed, I was so jarred and so angry. I was like,

how do I block this man from anything else? And you know, ever, and at the same time, it's like, what what are the next steps? Like what do you think Tiffany C. But I mean, like you said, this is not the first black man to be found. We have r Kelly, we have Chris Brown. I mean, there's probably you know, and even now Drake is being accused in all this, Like obsession over this, These.

out in a rap beef? Not that you know. Kendrick is you know, supposed to police Drake, but it's like anybody who bore witness to this kind of violence. Because what struck me about this video is Diddy did it with such ease and barbarism that it was not the first time. You know, he did that with impunity, like he knew he would not get caught. So I this is my speculation. I don't have any reporting on this. That's just you know that he's done it again. But

when you watch it, it was done with familiarity. And so it makes me question when we're you know, out bobbing our heads and having a good time, and everybody's writing thirty different think pieces on Drake and Kendrick that nobody made the point about, Well, wait a second, if y'all knew about women being mistreated, why didn't anybody say anything? Be it someone in your entourage, their entourage? What have

you bore witness to? And what are we not hearing right now as we three ladies sit here and talk. Someone is not safe right now. And it could be someone who doesn't have agency over their own life, a child and a home. And if that's the case, and if you're listening, tell and tell and tell and tell and tell until somebody hears you and believes you and gets you safe, keep telling. It could be a grown adult woman who does have agency but has fear or

over leaving. And so you know, to those people, we say, you are brave enough to stay, because if you're staying in an environment where you're getting hit, that's it's some bravery. So if you're brave enough to stay in that in dangerous environment, leaving is the easier part. Staying is the

hard part. I can't imagine somebody putting their hands on me in such a violent way and a lot of us can easily saying, well, it had it been me, I would have Look, the truth is, more often than not, we're not going to be able to physically overpower a man, and we don't know what we would do in that situation.

this is a legit as well. She talked about a friend of hers who worked for bad Boy at some point and told just a really violent story and how he had Cassie come into the room he was having like a meeting like with his executives or you know, have her cat her come into the room and punched her or hit her until she fell to the ground and when they got up, you know, the people in

the room gasping like what to help her? He told everybody to sit down and cursed everyone out and said manja business, and she laid on the floor and cried while he continued the meeting. Where's a girl like that supposed to go?

His bodyguards are not going to protect me, His executives are not going to protect me. He's already proven to be so violent. Like, so I can understand her reasoning. Of course there are, but I can understand her reasoning of like, I don't know that there's a place safe for me to go. And I've heard from so many women who have been in situations like that that they didn't feel they didn't know that they had a safe place to go because he made it very clear that

he would harm anyone in in that woman's life. So that's not the truth that there is no safe place. But I can understand the thinking because people think, like, why do you stay? Because it feels and you have empathy for this symphony as people.

Across Generations. We have a special episode that comes out on domestic violence and I speak with across generations each week. It's an elder, a younger, and me. Yet it Tiffany cross across generations.

the other. Uh, and yet both of their testimonies are very much the same. And it was I was bawling during this episode, like you just want to hold hold these women and hug them. So I distress to anybody if you're in that situation, please seek help, call somebody the Domestic Violence Hotline. I don't know what off the top of my head, but I got it right here for you.

if I may. She is constantly being disruptive in this committee hearing and really in life like she is, you know, disruptive and desperately seeking attention. And she asked a question, does anybody on this committee employee some judge's son and Congressoman Jazz and Crockett, congressman from Texas UH said what does that have to do with anything? And Marjorie Taylor Green responded with some nonsense, and she said, maybe your

fake eyelashes are getting in the way. And you know, for all the non melanated people who might be tuning in and you hear somebody say, oh, you picked the right one today. When someone says that you have indeed picked the wrong one, and Marjorie Taylor Green that day had indeed picked the wrong one, and so they were

trying to admonish her. Congressman Alexandria Ocascio Cortes AOC was trying to get her words uh stricken, and they wanted her to apologize, and Marjorie Taylor Green said she's not apologizing, and so they were asking the committee chair.

go high. But there is something to saying I will meet you where you are. If you come at me with this energy, I will meet you exactly there. And I think sometimes to get into the political spectrum, Democrats do have a habit of being very highbrow and we're above it. And that political playbook was ripped up in twenty sixteen, and so for me, some people they think there's some reward in abiding by this structure that you know, mostly white men build and create and many white women

help uphold. And I think there is something, and you have to be ready to face the consequences. Some people want to mumble and walk away, like you know, you know, forget them. Let's have the discussion right here, right now, and maybe next time you'll think twice. Because they only act a full like that when they are not outnumbered, when they're the majority. That's why you don't see MAGA

rallies on campus as the HBCUs. You did not see January sixth march through southeast DC because because the pre gentrified neighborhood was going to have a response for all those Trump supporters and Martie Taylor Green should Donald Trump be re elected. I mean, she stands positioned. She could be a committee chair, she could be Speaker of the House. She could have outsized power when it comes to our foreign policy domestic policy. Jasmine Crockett is an educated woman.

She's an attorney. She was a very instrumental figure in the Texas State Legislature. She replaced a Congressman, Eddie Bernice Johnson in Congress. She's an active member of the Congressional Black Caucus. She's a talented woman, and she has to square off with this ignorant, batshit crazy banjo picking cousin Dayton, half witted idiot from the Red Hills of Georgia who stumbled her way into Congress by dat writing Donald Trump being.

But like the fact that she said what she wanted to say in the moment when she needed to say it. I just feel like she slept so good that night.

We have yet to see it, but it could be a battle ground if folks down there did the right thing.

census they'll they'll flip. But every time, like Bett wal Work ran for Senate there, I mean, there have been people trying to disrupt the political infrastructure of Texas and it's been a challenge. So I hope they do. Georgia did it, and so I think, you know, everybody says the South, you.

He ran on anti choice rhetoric in twenty sixteen, so you know, the abortion fight came later, but a lot of that shitty policy bubbles up from the state legislature and he was one of the first people to do it. In twenty sixteen, white women outpaced white men in voting for him, So we'll see what happens when he's up for reelection. But there was something about that split ticket where people were voting for Senators Ossif and Warnock but not Stacy Abrams.

the opposite of our conversation about Diddy earlier. We protect them, but they don't have our backs, so okay, yeah, but it's just it's I don't want to focus on the negative so much, but when it comes to Georgia, I'm just like, come on it because for me, state politics, I just wish it was so much more important to people and the local state, county level like all those it all bubbles up, you know. Can I ask you a bit about your career though? Because I went to

the where'd you go to school? I went to Uga oh Clark, Okay, cause I studied journalism at at the Journalism College. We're not trying to call it grady anymore because racist slave owner. But if you throw a rock in Athens, Georgia, you're gonna pay a name of someone who was a slave owner. But anyway, I want to hear about, you know, your career and how do you come to you know, be this incredible like speaker and have your own podcast and be your own media brand

unto itself and how does it well? I asked so many questions at once, but my second question is like self care because it's tough. I did start in traditional journalism. I you know, my niche was business and finance and I you know, there's a lot of crossover into politics, but I wasn't in it. In it, in it you have been through so many you know, huge like flash points in our history and having to cover that, like

how how do you manage that? How do you take care of yourself so that doesn't start quickly?

to do it, except for Murphy Brown. I was, you know, young during the dawn of OPRAH, but she was more talk show and not news at the point that she came on the national scene. So my entire life was geared towards that. I knew this is what I wanted to do. And even before I knew the nation's capital was a thing I envisioned I would live there at some point, and so I got a job in radio. First that you'll appreciate this, Mandy being from Atlanta V one O three doing the morning news. Yes, I did

the morning news, honey, I'm sure learning show. Yes, well, shout out to Frankskie. He lost his son recently, so I wanted to send thoughts and prayers to him. But yeah, the franks Ski Morning Show. And listen, when I started doing news, you couldn't have told me I wasn't Barbara Walters because I was treating those low news cut in like it was the biggest thing.

I did. Not that there's anything wrong with doing that, but that you know, I look back and it's like my my dreams, my future put my dreams to shame, you know where where I would later go, because I thought that was my peak. And so after that job, I landed at CNN. I was at the TSU Classic and I met somebody who was a hiring manager at CNN.

He was an executive and this was before the internet and everybody had smartphones, and I used to carry around hard copies of my resume and I gave him a copy of my resume and just said, I just give me a chance. And he said, all I can do is get you an interview. That's all I need. And so I eventually started working at CNN. They relocated me to Washington, d C. To cover Capitol Hills. I did all the weekend shows, and I bounced around from different

newsrooms and Mandy, you'll be able to appreciate this. I never felt welcome in any of them. I always felt like an interloper. I always felt like an outsider, and certainly, as a young person entering the business, I made mistakes, but so the fuck did everybody else, you know. But as a black woman, I had no godfather. I had nobody there to, you know, protect me from myself or protect me from other people. It seemed like this effort to get rid of me, you know, and make me

feel as unwelcome as possible. I remember Bob Novak, he was a famed, infamous Chicago sometimes columnist, right wing conservative, and I remember him saying to me one day, do you have asked me who was which administration invented Social Security? And I did not know the answer, and I was, you know, kind of shamed in front of my colleagues, and I apologize for this Iron's guy. Every They're coming to get me because they hear me about this season. True,

now I lived downtowns, they're always Syrons. But anyway, I didn't know. I felt shamed, and I just something in me, the inner voice in us that we need to listen to all the time. I thought if I asked him juxtaposed for me, the difference in the economic beliefs of W. E. B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington, he would not be

able to answer that question. And yet these were two people from the same time period, same you know, outlook, And somehow the history that he knew seemed more important to him and everyone else, and the history that where I was better versed was not as important. And I had to decide for myself that their perspective didn't matter. I they would talk about Friends, you know, everybody would come in the office and talk about the episode of Friends they came on last night, how much they loved it.

And I watched Friends, but I also watched Martin, I watched The Different World.

lived experience count just as much as yours. But these are the things that can happen in the private sector, in corporate America, in the public sector, where you feel so isolated, you feel like the only and I was the only and there wasn't anybody around who could identify with me culturally or even professionally. What they thought was news, I did not think was news. And so after navigating different newsrooms, I was going in and out of news, and I got enough and I started my own business.

I raised seven figures in seed funding, and this was twenty sixteen. Seventeen eighteen nineteen, I had a platform called The Beat DC and it was this is when all the newsletters were launching, and there was nothing that identify five black people, brown people, api people with you know people in politics. It was all very white centered. And I was just so tired of that because even in

news and they would tell me what's appropriate. Again, Mandy, I feel like I'm preca acquired here, but what's considered unbiased and appropriate is often rooted in what's white and male. Everywhere I was these these ideas and ideologies were just, you know, a white structure, and it was exhausting, and so I wanted to build something that highlighted the rising majority of this country, the people of color in this country.

And that is when I made the transition from the control room to the green room and I started appearing on camera. Even though I had worked in news and in cable news for like twenty years, at that point, I was just starting to be on camera. And so when I started doing on camera commentary, my sister, my dear friend, Joy Reid was transitioning from her show on the weekends Am Joy on MSNBC, and she was moving

to primetime. First black woman to host primetime show and cable news Yes, and they reached out to me to audition to be her replacement, and eventually I got that show. We were extremely successful. We were averaging four point six million viewers a month, and everything on my show centered us in the rising majority. I stayed mission driven. When

I was very young. My mission was always to live in service to black folks, and so no matter what I was doing or where I was doing it, I was true to that mission and that didn't change here. I wanted to fight for the equality and liberation of black folks and all people of color, which benefits everyone white folks too, And so on my show, every expert, every person you heard from was black, Asian, American, Pacific Islander, Latino,

or Indigenous. How often do you see indigenous people on television talking about these issues that were not necessarily related to anything indigenous. So we would talk about issues relevant to the community, but we'd also talk about Ukraine. We'd also talk about our foreign policy, the rise of the Global South, all these things that we'd have discussion on with experts who just happened to look like you. When we had white people on, they were going to be

talking about issues relevant to the community. When we talked about white women voting against their own interests, I don't need to hear from a bunch of black folks about that. Bring me some white women on this set. Give me four white women, and let's talk about why they vote on their interests. When we talk about welfare, give me the phase of welfare, because proportionately it is not black women. That was a Ronald Reagan trope, but it is not.

The face of welfare was a college educated white woman. So give me a college educated white woman on this set. And so in doing that, I made enemies. I disrupted a structure, and I committed the cardinal sin of making white folks uncomfortable. And so Fox News took notice. All the right wing took notice. I was getting threats, I was getting hate mail, hate speech, all of it. The network set nothing. They unceremoniously canceled my show four days

before midterms. We had exclusive interview booked with Stacy Abrams. It was awful. I mean, the ground dropped from anner me. And so after that, I, you know, all these people who I didn't realize what the show meant to people because I was in it. I was doing the work every week, and so it was such an outcry. And one of the first emails I got was from Will Packer who said Will Packer Media would love to be in business with Tiffany Cross.

amazing work. I think it gets complicated at the national level because they take money from NBC Universal and all the networks, and so when these networks do something shitty there often and like a lot of the civil rights organizations, quite frankly, same thing, and so there really is no accountability. And so at this point, I think NABJ is an amazing organization for younger people, for students. It's great resource.

I think when you get to my level. I am starting to question, what the fuck are you guys there for if you're not going to ally for people, if you're taking money from Disney, and an ESPN or ABC reporter is saying, hey, I'm having this issue. If you're gonna, you know, favor profit and money, which you know it takes that kind of money the organization run, then I just have some questions about that with NABJ. So, unfortunately

I am not affiliated with NABJ anymore. I don't anticipate that changing in the future, but I do encourage young people to definitely the conferences at all of it's it's it's crucially important. But yes, the outcome.

Angela also wanted to do a podcast together, so she and I and our brother Andrew Gillam launched one where we can talk about politics. But I honestly needed a break, you guys, Like, I was so tired upholding the white man's democracy and talking about this and I'm like, yeah, i all want to turn this bitch over to Trump, and I'm fucking tired of trying to talk you out of it. You know. I needed a place. I needed an outlet and across generations. Was really that. I'm so

grateful to Will Black Women's Center, Will Success. He and I had known each other for some years, so he was familiar with my work, my show, me as a person, and we work really really well together. And it makes such a difference to work with someone where you don't have to defend and define your humanity every five seconds.

Because on my show, I mean imagine the things I was talking about every week, there was a fight every week with the executives and it's like, no, do this Trump segment or do cover some bullshit minutia that happened on Capitol Hill. And we were the highest rated show on the weekend, So it was really weird. I'm like, go talk to some of these other shows that are doing fucked up ass ratings, like why are you staying in my show? And we far outperform everybody else, even

Morning Joe. We're getting more ratings than your favorite ass white boy and you still fucking with my show. It was frustrating, and as a black person in that space, you can start to think, am.

there and she I was so curious about her. I was being her soux chef, but I was curious, and I'd ask her questions and we'd have conversations about life and love and joy and grief and pain and happiness and how to harness some of these positives and how to navigate some of these negatives. And while I was being her sooux chef, she was teaching me about life. And she would let me get through three or four questions before she would just lose it on my ass.

I was like, like, Grandma, why did you move to Chicago? How old was Uncle Charles when this happened? How'd you hit that car? And finally she'd say, okay, child, enough come of these onions, or you know, let me show you this maca cheese goose was like where you put in the oven? So but I miss her so much,

and I lost her in twenty fourteen. And so when I look at the younger landscape of women, I think y'all got to need some gladys read in your life that was my grandmother, and young women reach out to me like I need a mentor and can we talk? And I'm like, you a full grown ass when you're twenty eight, Like I'm still trying to get my shit together. I don't know, but you know, when you talk to somebody twenty eight, it's like, yes, ma'am, I am almost pleasure age, and yes I do have wisdom because in

my mind I'm twenty eight. But then when I'm confronted with somebody's They're like, novis you are not twenty eight when you are as middle aged woman. And so I wanted to I was like, how can I satisfy my own desire for nourishment from the oracle and stage that is black women while also sharing wisdom with younger women. And so just the magic that happens, you guys, when we come together, the three of us here right now,

three black women. If you by even one person, even one person who don't look like us, our entire dynamic changes.

we finish each other's sentences. It's not Tiffany the journalist interviewing them. It is Tiffany the person engaging in deep, intimate, emotional conversation about life, love, grief, loss, loss of a child, loss of a husband, about sex, even even lighthearted topics. Somebody in their twenties has a very different attitude from

somebody in there. Listen. So on that episode, we have an eighty five year old woman on that yeah, across from a twenty something, And let me tell you, the eighty five year old had the most exciting life of all of us. She taught me a new curse word, I'd be missus Teeny was her name, and Miss Teeny, miss Teenie is. We have celebrities on the show, but it's not celebrity driven, like miss Teenie is that old woman and the boogie down, you know, take care of

people's kids. Community, right, the community. Honey. Miss Teenie was like, let me tell you about these men.

Where then you had somebody younger, we have this woman is being nasty who was the only fan superstar and she's making like forty to fifty grand a month and nobody touches her. And so these two women across generations where the money looks different. And they told me some wild shit about racism and porn industry, crazy things. So

we have a conversation about church. Y'all know, old people like you better go to turk and pray, and young people like we ain't messing with church said much like that. And so we have these two women, and the older woman happened to be the atheist, and we have v simone On who was deep in her walk in faith. So we I'm telling whatever y'all talk about, we talking about it. Whatever you talk about around with your grandmama, your mama's we talk about it. We talked about having

complicated relationships with our mom and mama trauma. That was probably the most emotional episode. I got like three words in. I was like, guys, I talk about my mom all the time. It's fine. I'm ready to go. And I got three words in. I was like, I was the ugly cry of that show. So yeah, we run the gambit. We run the gambit, and we're building brick by brick.

So podcasting is definitely different. But I'm used to like four point six, you know, billion viewers a month, and so sometimes the podcast numbers, I have to remember it's a slow process.

I'm busy next week. But me and Mandy literally every week, whether we used to do it in person and then online, and even if we switched the day, we really have not missed like a week, or if we did, it was really intentional, like when Mandy had her baby and so like you know so, but there was always a podcast, and I think people just came to say, like, we know that Branna Bishen is going to be here, and

so that helped a lot. And also too vulnerability, like you know, Mandy's my friend in real life, and so sometimes I'll forget because we'll be talking and then I'll see someone now and someone's like, oh, my gosh, you know, how was whatever? I'm like, how you?

It's like seeing Doctor Weber and Miranda Bailey and Grey's Anatomy like the last two other than Ellen Pompeimo Pompeo, who's already left the last two like original cast members that I love to see them, and I think that's what it is. Tiff I don't know if I said that out loud before, but I think that connection, which in a chat show where you're interviewing guests, we don't do that all the time. A lot of the time it's just Tiffany and I. Sometimes we just prefer it.

We're like, well, talk about but with you, and it just feels like we have a third co host.

the whole is very organic. You get to get a peek into two girlfriends talking. That's what it feels like. That's what it really is.

And so now that it is, you know, we're getting more and more serious, but it just for the first like, you know, five years, we really were just like, I mean, if it makes money, that's cool, but ultimately we're doing a thing that we enjoy doing because we're friends. Yeah.

kind of novices at podcasting. And I what I found is there are people who are definitely podcasters, who like, I want to listen to this while I'm cleaning, while I'm doing whatever, but I'm building community through audio. And then there are people who are strictly like no, I want to see I want to you know, see who

who's talking. I want to see what you're wearing. I want to see your facial expression, which helps on a show like this because you know, I can give you guys a look now that we will all know what it means, but if you're listening, you might not catch it.

like one hundred thousand a month or something. So you imagine now that we're going into Q three twenty twenty four, for sure that number hits they like, not less and less. Few or fewer people have cable now and YouTube has now surpassed all other providers in terms of being an outlet for how people watch TV. I did that baffle by mind. I itches TV.

is that you're promoting or whatever it is that you're doing. But also too, I think to me, the number one thing I see just see overall brand building is building community around the brand, you know, like, where's there place where your community can discuss the show together? You know, like you know, like I know a lot of people have like Patreons. Do you guys have Patreon?

double Dutch sound bath, some'mores. It's incredible And like I whenever I walk in my park, I mean I will see somebody with an electric blue Girl Trak t shirt on. I mean the Girl Trek community reps hard because they have they have done a really good job of taking community from offline to in person as well. And I think it is like to me, that's something I'm working on on the budget east side that that is it's

like this. More and more people are not realizing that people are wanting true connection and Girl Trek helps to create and foster connection. So just considering that, like how can I like, can you do pop ups in person?

and my finances together all those things. So Across Generations I do want to build. Well, no, you were right, because Cross Connection was my show. Across Generations is the new show in the podcast space. And so I've been looking at women like you guys, and what other black women are doing. And one thing I find interesting is that more Black women are become podcast listeners with the more black content content creators there are. And it just showed, like,

I don't understand what people are resistant to it. It's like we we make dollars and we make sense. We hope, you know, bottom line. So I it's definitely been a journey, but I love your Both of you guys have a background in business and I can talk about anything. Had you guys said, hey, we're going to talk about whatever. I'm like, I'm game, let's do it. The one thing I cannot talk about with intelligence or expertise is like the markets, you know, like finance.

When I try to read like something that is strictly on the economy, like you know, Paul Krugman column or something, you know, it's like I'm struggling a little bit, like I'm googling a lot. So I really admire and respect both you guys that you have a background, and I imagined that those transferable skills and now it's that helped build your platform as well. Well.

now with our show. What I've noticed is, yes, there has been that drop, but the consistency has stayed the same. So like the number of once we sort of like evened out, and this algorithm shift happened last fall. I was super busy in the winter, but like in the spring checking out. I'm like, hey, we've like leveled out. We've we've leveled out. We're seeing our normal numbers. That

has remained consistent. So I think our our audience is very loyal and all of the email and dms that we get to, if it's often, I've been listening for years, I've been listening for you know, since this, I went back and listened to all year old episodes and they you build that loyalty in that community. And I agree with what tiff said about, you know, with BA Fam, even just calling them BA Fam, it feels like in

on it. You know, we could maybe do a little bit more on the community side, but both of us individually have strong communities which helps support. So Tiffany, you have your Dream Catchers, which is this huge community, and I started Mandy money Makers in twenty twenty one, which is my career coaching community. And I think together we are Captain Planet now are.

And so it's a private conference, so we couldn't like tell everybody to come through and hear us, But all the women at that conference will be our live audience for our live Chickoff tour. And then we're also doing essence like we're going to be all over So I know somebody is my point and I'm happy to put you all in touch with the person and a live tour. Well, this is what Brown Brown and Ambition is about.