Alright, ba fam, we are so excited to introduce you to this week's guest. Les Alfred is an award winning podcast host. She's a speaker of content creator. I've been a huge fan of hers for a long long time, and my most favorite thing about less is that she
hosts one of my favorite podcasts, Balanced Black Girl. It is a chart topping weekly podcast, and she facilitates thoughtful interviews and incredible solo episodes as well, where she just shares everything about sort of building that building, that well rounded life where you are living your best version of yourself. Tiffany, how do you feel about our combo with Balanced Black Girl? That was your first time meeting her?
It what although I'm following her on social because of course my brain was like, of course you are me and I had already liked pictures, So our conversation with our conversation with Leus was really awesome. And what I really love is that to be a balanced Black girl is not to have it all together. It is the It is the journey, not the destination, which you will hear us talk about. So you're gonna enjoy this episode,
Zen out, chill out. If you're going for this is perfect, About to wash the dishes, about to do laundry, about to go for a walk.
Episode, So do something to self care.
Yes, add this to your self care today.
Now, Tiffany, I have a follow up from the show actually because you talked about self care this summer. But it was like a bunch of like traveling and about mem and like all the family and stuff that, like when it's just you, what are you doing to if you're anxious about something or you're having a tough time, like what are you turning to?
Well at that moment, I.
Am excited because I just finally I've been dragging my feet. Book the movers to come on Friday.
Okay, we've rescheduled last week.
Right, Yes, they're finally coming. Just like no next week, No, next week and the next some I'm like, so I will officially by the time we tape again be in my new place. And I think that I just want to get a moment because I've not lived alone for a long time, and so I think that self care is going to look like I don't know, like acclimating myself emotionally, mentally and physically to my new place, like
just spending so every day I go there. I take a walk almost every day, and doctor Green suggested, take a walk, have lunch there, have breakfast there. Start to integrate it into your life. So it's not this big,
big shock. And I think I'm going to mainly spend the summer outside of like, you know, these three trips that I kind of have, planing business things, just literally almost like getting on the frequency of my new place, if that makes sense, sitting on the couch and just looking out the window, you know, yeah, listening to music like my my boo bought me a record player and have all these amazing records, and listening to records in
the place, you know, liking at home. Yes, And so I think that's the core thing, because it's a realignment, if you will. And so outside of like the moving and shaking, I'm really looking forward to like just connecting to my place and allowing it to be like this is where you this is home. Now home, offying it if you will.
Yeah, like yes, hanging up some arts.
Yes, Oh you know, we came over just a couple days ago. Kimberly remember from the she's the curator for Brooklyn Museum, one of the curates.
Oh, that's right, you guys went to an art show that is so sexy, very rich.
Well, she was in Newark to visit a studio. Do you want to come? And this is amazing artist Adama Adama Delphine, and she is amazing. As soon as I walked into her studio, which is in newk She's actually from Brooklyn and lives in Brooklyn, I was like, I feel like I've seen this work before.
I have.
This woman is like famous. I'm like, not you being a whole. She's like has stuff in the Smithsonian that I've seen in the portrait gallery in DC. I've seen her in Newark studio, I mean Nework Museum all over. Her stuff is so famous.
I was like, girl, man, and but it.
Was beautiful and there's like two pieces I really want. I don't know, it might be too rich for my blood, but I certainly put an offer into be like I'd love to purchase. So that was really awesome. And then I was like she was so awesome. I was like, do you want to come to the condo because Kimberly was gonna come anyway to give me some suggestions about what kind of art I can feel it with. And so she came and we had.
Like a whole national artist, like I mean.
She is all over the world. And I was like, so that was just that's the kind of thing I want to do more of this summer and to invite good energy, especially black and brown women into my home to create these amazing, beautiful memories with you know.
So that's nice.
Well I'm going to do since we're talking a little bit about weekends, I have to do a shout out to my brother.
Drake, I said, look d on the red carpet.
Yeah, and his lady friend, who I'm like very self conscious about not saying the wrong thing or too much things.
I don't want to like step on any too's. But aren't they zo gue together?
So she's a filmmaker and that's how they met. And you know, Alex has his own film production, but she if you guys, have you heard a Tribeca Film Festival's this big festival. It happens that every summer, New York.
Yeah.
So her film that she produced, they won a million dollar grant last year from AT and T and the film festival. I know, major, right, And they took this million dollars and they made a movie last fall and somehow they edited it and they premiered it like within less than a year, which is like bananas to me. And I got to go to the premiere, which was really cool. There was a carpet and it was at this really gorgeous historic theater, the Angelica Theater on Second
Avenue in New York. Really beautiful, and the film itself, Oh my god. So if you're listening, you got to write down The Color Book. The Color Book is a feature film and it is everything that you everything that I think we all need in a film right now, but and also like nothing that you are worried it might be. So I went into this film because I knew it was about a black father and his son who has Down syndrome, and I think I went into
this movie with like a sense of foreboding. I was telling Kaya, the producer about it, you know, just like a little bit of foreboding. You see a black man in a vulnerable state with a child who has special needs, and it's all in black and white. The film is very quiet and heart wrenching, and I just kept like I had this fear over me the whole time, like
something bad is going to happen. To this kid and his dad, and you know what, I don't want to spoil the movie for you, but it just got to be a really beautiful love story between a dad and his son. And I realized how poignant that was and how powerful it was. It seems like such a quiet movie about just this relationship and at the same time, like so rare. When do we get to see that in a black father from his perspective, just being a good dad, struggling coping with grief, but also just being
an amazing dad. And the actor who played the boy, the little boy Mason, his name is Jeremiah, so sweet. His whole family was there. Yeah, so just shout out the Color Book. I don't know if you can see it. It was at Tribeca, so probably it'll come to theater soon. But yeah, Hugh, shout out to Kaya who produced it. And then my brother, who directed and wrote his first short film, told me recently, actually I just foun out this weekend.
I was so late.
He got his film accepted into the Palm Springs Film Festival AMAZ, which is like not something that happens with your first ever film written and directed yourself. So it's called Thomasville it's based on my dad. Him and his family grew up in a neighborhood in Atlanta called Thomasville, and so it's a short film like that. Yeah, just calls back to my dad's upbringing and my uncle Mark and just really really really freaking proud of my brother too.
Yeah.
So happy to get to I don't I don't have that many moments where I just, especially recently worth gotten to connect with him and just celebrate something. It's been a very stressful year in our family, so to just like be there and to celebrate and see how happy they are and how they're doing what they love and they love each other, and there's so beautiful.
It was.
It's gonna get your girl.
Listen.
If you guys just go like his I'll tell you what he will forgive me. If you guys run to Pineapple Cut's Instagram page, that's his production company, and then you run to well, just we'll start there. Run to his his page and like follow him and leave a comment saying brand Ambition loves y'all, and then he will forgive me anything else Pineapple Cut, product cuts or I don't know, pine I think it's just with with with no s pineapple, how many pineapple cuts?
I was there, Yeah, you'll be fine. And you know what he looks like? Just me? What less hair?
Okay, he looks like Drake Chah. I literally because I saw it in your Instagram stories and I was showing my Pardner. I was like, oh my god, tell me you don't like Drake.
You know, had to come up with a new thing, Tiffany. Every time it's Drake, Drake, Drake, Drake, Drake. Come how could it be a new thing with That's what I mean. He looked even more like Drake than ever before. I was like, with his hair out. I was like, come on, man. And I got recognized twice at that event. And then also, yeah, I went to see Michelle Buteau's comedy show and one of our fans, oh, and I thought I was gonna was there.
She was like, maybe he was here. I would have seen there.
So I got so many Deanstrim folks like I didn't know you were here.
I was here too, my y.
We were all out there for you were black and female and a millennial. You were at that you were at that Radio City show. It was really good. But yeah, one of our listeners she tossed up me in the line when I was getting a little drink drink. It's like give me the large blood katonic please, and well it's always nice running into ba fam. We love you guys. Yeah, all right, should we take a little breaky break, can come back with our interview with Less Balanced Black Girl.
Let's do it.
Oh?
I love that there, Lee.
State Farm agents are small business owners too, so they know how to help you choose personalized policies that figure needs, like a good neighbor. State Farm is there. Talk to your local agent today. Hey, hey, hey, we're back. We're black, We're brown. Ambition ambition, ambition, ambition, ambition. The stew is extra brown today.
Okay today, Yes, yeah, we have a guest. Welcome to the show Less. If y'all don't know about mine, can I call you my friend?
I don't know. I feel like I text your less Alfred Less Alfred.
She is the award winning podcast host of one of my actual favorite podcast, Balanced Black Girls, and I actually I've had to recently come up with like a list of things I can do for self care, just as like an emergency kit.
You know, I'm going through a hard time. What is it? That relaxes me again.
And I added Balanced Black Girl to the list because I just feel like there's always, like if it's not the most recent show, there's something in the top ten, like the next ten that I can sort of like put on and I'll feel a little bit better about myself or like I'll have a better perspective.
So what better review for your show can there be? Then?
Like it is on the list of ways to self sooth, right next to like a Pina Ben and Jerry's. It's like, am I gonna listen to Balance Black Girl or I'm not going to like stuff my face?
Oh my gosh, that is the best compliment. I'm so honored. I mean, I'm also such a big fan of Brown Ambition and of both of you individually and together. So I'm so excited to be joining you. Yeah.
So okay, So let's tell folks what was the origin of Bounce Black Girl? Because you're around you were coming up around the same time as us, right what your.
Day launch I started in October of twenty eighteen was when the show launched.
Okay, so a couple of years after yeah, and then at the time, like you were working nine to five up until like yesterday almost, I mean up until really recently. So, yeah, where were you working at the time? Why the podcast? Like, when did you start making money? Tell us everything?
Oh my goodness, Okay, Well the podcast wouldn't be a thing without the initial blog that I started ten years ago. So I started a blog a decade ago that was a wellness fitness blog. I was working in corporate but I was also a personal trainer. I was really into nutrition and healthy recipes, and so I started blogging about that ten years ago. And that was when I started building a following online in a little bit of a community,
I mean micro, micro, tiny. It was not major by any means, but I started building a little bit of a community, and I got really burned out. I did that for about four years, and I just got super burned out. I got really sick of it. I got really tired of fitness. I got tired of talking about fitness. I got tired of being in fitness spaces, and so I took a break from all of it, took a break from the Internet, from creating content, from the whole thing.
And while I was away, I was getting messages and emails from people who followed me and they were like, hey, less I know you're taking a break, but when you're not posting, I don't see other black women or brown women posting about wellness in my feed, like can you come back? And I thought, Okay, maybe there's a way that I can introduce my audience to other black and brown women in wellness so that if I want to tap out, they're not just looking to me for that. And so that's a lot of pressure.
For one.
It was a lot of pressure story of my life. And so by this time it was twenty eighteen, late summer, early fall twenty eighteen, and I was working at a startup as a social media manager making zero dollars, which was a great experience. I'm being very sarcastic, it was. Yeah, I felmatic, very traumatic work experience. Lots of therapy from that from that job. But honestly, I was just sitting at work one day and I got the idea of start a podcast name it Balanced Black Girl Interview Black
and Brown Women in Wellness. I went on Amazon, ordered a microphone, and launched the podcast a week later and have been going ever since.
Hasy Peasy, Lemon Squeezy see just like Brown ambition. Let's just do this thing, all right?
That's LIU. What happened? Did they go into a podcast? I'm like, what's a podcast? Okay?
I don't know, but I have Amazon and you trust me, so come hang right? Oh man? So wait when you launched it, you were working at the startup. What were you doing? You said? Social media?
Yeah, I was a social media okay. Sure.
So do you tell at that point do they know that you're doing the podcast? At what point does it become a problem or it.
Became a problem almost like immediately. I mean I didn't keep it a secret, but it you know, people could see it and they knew about it, and it became a problem. I would say probably about six months later, when it started kind of doing well and when I started getting opportunities and things started taking off. It it did become a problem.
How do they articulate that it was a problem. Oh, I mean, let me be messy.
I'm like, it was pretty messy. I mean, at that time through quite a bit of cattiness, which is like, I don't want to throw anybody under the bus. But it was a super small company and so you know, I would get texts from the founder like unhappy about what I was doing and so stuff like that. I didn't stay on odd job for much longer because it just wasn't really worth it. But yeah, it was rough. It was a rough time.
Love I hate no, I love no boundaries.
No.
That is like when people talk about the startup and working for a startup, like that is such a broad term. It sounds like it's very specific, but there are so many different versions of startups, and it sounds like you're at one of those ones where it's tiny and toxic.
Oh not the TNT, tiny and toxic.
It's like Napoleon complex and startups and because they're so tiny, they like everything is so like it's people are they're hyper aware of what each employee is doing. And then there's this sense of like I need to Like you're so anxious about the company and like what's happening that you feel like you need to control everything and everybody. And you don't get that as an employee. You don't get that freedom to just like not feel like all eyes are on you, you know, because they're just putting
so much outsize pressure. I'm I feel spoiled because when Tiffany and I launched brown ambition. I was working at a big brand like Yahoo, and we could sneak around and go unnoticed, you know, like it wasn't a huge deal. I was just like one of a gajillion, you know, employees with the really famous CEO of the time, and in some regard that gave me like a little bit of a level of ymity and like, you know, do first, ask permission later. So I just want to acknowledge that
that's rough. But then you got it out.
Of there, I did, Yeah, right, yeah, And when did.
You feel did you have a satin it like, did you have money saved or were you just like did you have another job?
I ended up getting another job. Yeah. So at the time, I was doing some freelancing. I was doing some freelance writing, some freelance you know, marketing for other businesses. So I was able to do that to sustain myself for a few months, and then I ended up getting another full time job pretty quickly after.
What is your relationship with money in general, Like, is it something that you've learned a lot growing up? When you launch Balance Black Girl, were you thinking, oh, this can be a source of extra income for me, because you're thinking ahead talk a little bit about that.
My relationship with money has always been really tricky. I've always aired on the side of being very frugal, of pinching every penny really tight, because I grew up in an environment where that was not modeled, where spending even when we didn't have it was kind of the norm, and I saw the repercussions of that, and it freaked me out, and so I very quickly just wanted to do the opposite of what I saw, and that was
save safe, save cheap, cheap, cheap. And I'm still working to dismantle that a bit because I think, of course, there is a time to be, you know, very conscientious about your saving and to do these things, and there's also a time to live. And I had gotten to a point where I did start doing better financially, and I was working really hard, and I was still like holding on to every little thing and like forcing myself to be really small, and so I've had to do
quite a bit. You're in a safe space, yeah, a lot of unlearning.
So so the ANI and I can can attest like you know, especially don't know if many I you're quite as cheap as I am or.
What, But yeah, something about having kids and seeing the dollar signs that go with just the basic things like daycare. It's it's created a sense like I definitely spend.
So much more.
It's easy to justify anything when you're like, oh, what's for of the kids. I have a lot of understanding of people who go into bankruptcy when they have children, Like I get it.
Yeah, So in therapy, what are some of the things that you unearthed about your financial like link like for example, for me, it was a sense of unworthiness. That's what was driving me not wanting to spend, and it was like, oh, working on the feeling of oh you are deserving, you are worthy, you know, that helped to unlock you know, my ability to look at money in a healthy way as a tool that I can use to make my
life better. But so for you, I mean, you don't tell us all your business, but sometimes people don't know tells business that money is not always just about money, right, there's this underlying kind of like, oh, this is the current underlying my choices.
I think a lot of it for me has just always been around safety and feeling like my only backup, and I mean my life is still this way is myself. I don't have financial support outside of myself. And it's pretty much been that way, you know, since I was pretty young, and so feeling like if I run out or if I try something and I fail, I have
no help. There's no way out of that. Not there's no way out, but like I don't have any support outside of myself for that, which is still something that I struggle with because that is still true, and so it's something that I'm constantly dismantling. Is Okay, I may not necessarily have external help outside of myself, but if need be, I can get creative. I'm smart, I can always make something shake, I can always make something work.
Me being able to take care of myself doesn't only have to look one way.
Yeah, I mean, life is and it only gets more stressful. The stakes get even higher, even if you're you know, you don't have anyone but yourself to support in a way, like the stake seems so much higher. The bills get more expensive, you know, like even supporting a life. Now you move from the West coast to the East coast, which are both I mean, you were in LA before, right, we're around roundabouts, and now you're in New York City.
It's expensive in these areas. So yeah, when did you get to the point where you're like, Okay, I am ready to pick up, I'm ready to move, you know, take the risk and go full time with balanced black girls. Some people would do one of those things at a time, but you were like, no, I'll do both things.
At the same time. What was that, Like, how has it been with that transition?
So I would say me going full time into content creation with a long time coming from the time I launched that first blog ten years ago. That was always my intention. I did not love my corporate experience, even though I did it for thirteen years. I did it out of survival. But once I learned that people could make money online, I was like, oh, I want to do that. And so that was always, you know, my intention, and a lot of it was me kind of moving the goal post of what would help me feel safe
enough to do it. It was you know, when I make a certain amount, then i'll quit. When I you know, pay off my student loans, then I'll quit when I this, when I that, And so I had gotten to a point where those those milestones that I had set for myself,
I had done it. I had, you know, paid off my student loans, I'd reached a certain amount in savings and investments, I had you know, increased my earnings for my business year over year and surpassed my corporate salary for a certain number of years where I was like, Okay, this is a clear upward trajectory where I feel comfortable doing this. So it was many years coming, but it took about a decade to truly feel comfortable enough to do it.
I mean it's a good thing you started young, because you're still really young.
Oh I don't. I'm not feeling very young on a decades down so long.
I know. Well, you have a big birthday. Was it a big birthday? You're turning thirty five?
Yeah?
Is that right?
Use a baby?
Oh, thank you.
I'm only thirty six, So I too too, baby, I will be thirty seven and two months though, because.
We're both we're both Leo's right.
Yeah.
Is that what we discovered?
Yeah?
So how do you?
Because I mean, it's it's one thing to say like
balance black girl. You have so much knowledge about like and you have so many great experts on your show talking about everything from like mental health to astrology, to nutrition and like and healthy dieting and exercise and all of that, but I want to know, there's something so much more, like the pressure in your thirties to be you know, still really hot, but like also make a lot of money and then sort of like if you're if you're being single, be single the best, you know,
be the best kind of single where you're like loving yourself and you're still having an active social life, but like your family not having a family, and if you do have a family, it's like you gotta be the perfect mom.
Blah blah blah blah blah. How do you help us?
Like, how do you help yourself even get to a point where you can like accept where you are, and how do you balance that with like wanting to be sometimes it's okay to be like a better version of yourself or do things a little bit better.
Yeah, for a long time, I was super goal oriented, and I was very focused on all of these external achievements of if I make a certain amount of money or pay off my debt, or have a certain amount of listeners or a certain number of followers. I was doing those things because I thought that people would respect
me more. I thought that it would mean that I was just you know, this this great, disciplined or whatever successful person, and I am in a different place now where it's not that I don't necessarily want those things, but it's almost a sense of curiosity of like, I wonder if I could do that, if I launched this business, how will it go? Like, let me just try it, let me kind of do it for the plot a
little bit, and how many experiences. Yeah, I'm like, let me just have as many experiences as possible, like moving to New York. Sure, why not? Sure, let me try it and see what happens. And that has been really freeing for me because I feel like I am still growing as a person, but there's not necessarily this pressure to do it in a certain way or by a certain time. It's like, I'm just my vibe right now
is living life. There's like a Courtney Kardashian mim where she says that that I've been sharing a lot and every time somebody asks me like what are your intrinsic goals? What is your purpose in this lifetime? I troll them and I'm like, my vibe right now is living life.
Like I love it.
I'm just I'm just here. I'm just curious to see if I can, you know, I just want to see, like if I try something, if I apply myself to it, will it work out? And if it doesn't, that's okay, then I'll do something else. But I think right now, I'm just in such a place of exploration. And I do think that for women, there is a lot of pressure around things like, you know, having children and having
a certain family life. And I mean, maybe this is going to sound really bad, but I've kind of not to say, given up on that, but I have accepted that if that is going to happen, then it will happen, and if it does not happen, that I can find so many other sources of joy and fulfillment outside of it. And that has also relieved a lot of pressure and made my life a little bit more enjoyable than feeling like I need to be on the hunt.
I'm curious why were you a little self conscious of saying that, or like you said, it could sound.
Bad, because I don't, because I think oftentimes people go to the internet and they listen to conversations like this to help them validate their choices, and so I think if somebody has made different choices than what I have made, then me talking about how I've done something different can
make them feel self conscious about their their choices. Or if someone is maybe in a similar position to me, but maybe they feel bad about it, Like maybe they're in their mid thirties as well, and they you know, are single and don't have kids, but they so want that. I don't ever want anybody to feel a certain way just because I'm making different choices. So I like to have those disclaimers of like, I'm not here to validate
or invalidate anyone's experience. I'm just here to share what my experience has been so far, and who knows, something could be totally different. I could walk outside and like meet my husband this afternoon and have a baby in a year. I don't know. I'm doing it all for the plot, we'll see.
And also too, I think sometimes the way people dangle marriage and like family as if it will fix all the things. That's how it's like, you know, I mean, has somebody who was happily married, you know, but like, oh, you know, like if you don't like, I'll this is what Like, you know, every man with the microphone and the red pill. Then it's like, you don't get married, you don't have kids, You're gonna die along with a cat.
I'm like, what's guess, you know, But that's the sense that like, oh, that you do it because for the for the desired outcome, which is at least you'll have someone to take care of you. And I'm just saying that that's not the reason to get like, you know, like the fear of like, well, what will it look like when I'm eighty, that's not the reason to ideally partner because there's no guarantee that your partnering on my
husband past, there's no guarantee. So you can have all the things you could be like, oh my gosh, I've found this person, they're so great. There's no guarantee at the end that it's going to look like that. And so that's why ideally, you know, you partner, because because that's the right partner for you. You know that, you know.
So I always think that when I tell like young women that I talk to, I'm just like, you can have all the great things, you can have best partner, All the things are in line and still you know, so it's just best to just choose from a place of this is what's right for me, you know, because you know or you know, I mean, there's just yeah, there's just so many ways that like twists and turns and you know, always trying your best to live in alignment is really the only way you can kind of
look up and say, so glad I made that choice, you know, I love.
I mean, I wanted to stand up if I wasn't like, I'm not actually wearing like proper attire on my lower half right now.
I'm not gonna lie.
The same very short short time, but like I would stand up, but we post on YouTube, so I'm not gonna do that. But when you said less, like, oh, I just wanted to capture that because it's so crucial. And I think because you are a content creator and you are an influencer. You have a podcast, people do and I think Tiffany and I too, people turn to us for advice and guidance and all of that. But it's almost like you really care about the listen. Not
almost like you definitely care about your listener. You care about how you're coming across, not in a way that makes you self conscious, but that makes you like like almost like just protective of your audience. And I think it's really fucking wise, Like if you guys were listening what you said about how when you're listening to someone's story, it doesn't have to like that doesn't have to be the way that you validate your own feelings, your own desires.
And I think we are in such a culture now where you want like you live in an echo chamber and you collect voices that sort of like echo what it is that you want to hear what you want for your life, and it's like always you know, validating. But it's okay for us to sit with people and hear their stories and experiences and not have to like judge it against ourselves, but just sit with it and be like, oh, that's a story, that's that's that person's story,
and how about that? Like I wish we would just bring back that like Midwestern say my grandma always to say how about that? Or like the Southern like bless
her heart, like that kind of thing. You know, like we just either we're like we can't be present with someone when they're speaking because either we're comparing ourselves to them or we're judging them so harshly for the decisions that they've made, and like, if that wasn't an advertisement for balanced black girl, I don't know what is, because it's such like that little If people could just get that which where you can just like be okay listening
to someone else and not need them to validate yourself, then you'd be so much happier.
Yeah, oh, I really validate me. I just love you validate.
No, Mandy, I think you just articulated so much better my intention. That's exactly it. So thank you I've received.
Yeah, hey, b a fan, We're going to take a quick break and we'll be right back.
Okay, well let's talk about Okay, so we are thirty, you're turning thirty five, got a big birthday coming up, and you have posted about this. What's on your list of what are you calling it?
Like? Thirty five dirty? What was it?
Thirty thirty five hotter?
Why did I say thirty five dirty? Dirty?
Thirty five thirty.
I'm like glitching, all right, go ahead, thirty five hotter? What does that look like for you?
So I over the past probably like a year or so, and maybe this is I'm noticing. I'm having a realization right now, I'm having an epiphany with you too. I think there's something in my brain about ages that end in five, because when I was twenty five, oh, you're not alone on twenty five. For some it messed with my head. I had this whole thing around turning twenty five,
and I made this list. I called it the twenty five by twenty five of twenty five things I wanted to do by my twenty fifth birthday to get me out of a punk. And I'm realizing, I think this is like my the next iteration of that, because I'm not doing thirty five thirty five things is a lot of things. Not making a list of thirty five things to do. But I was feeling this complex around turning thirty five, even more so than I felt around turning thirty.
I was pretty indifferent about thirty actually, and I just wanted to instead of feeling all this anxiety around what I you know, quote unquote haven't done in my life. I want to walk into thirty five feeling the best that I've ever felt mentally, physically, emotionally, and so a lot of the things that I'm focusing on currently or like going back to therapy just for maintenance, not because
it's like nine to one one something's wrong. You know, in the past, I would go to therapy if I was having like really bad anxiety, or if I was, you know, experienced someone passing and was in the depth of grief. But I'm having my first experience going to therapy just to like process. We'll touch up old stuff. Yeah, just stuff that I've been carrying, you know, from my teens and twenties, and I'm like, I just don't want
to take this into the next chapter. So it's it's almost nice to be in therapy without the alarm bells going off. Changing up fitness because my relationship to fitness has changed a lot. Fitness is a big part of my story, but a lot of what I did in my twenties just doesn't make sense now because I'm in a totally different place in my life. My body needs different things as I get older. I just don't need to be jumping around doing all the burpies and crazy stuff.
I mean ten years ago. It just doesn't not serve me. My knees are exactly Oh my gosh, no. I walked the whole borough of Manhattan on Saturday, and oh wow, I got to about Chelsea, and I was like, I'm feeling real over thirty right now, my knees and my hips. And I was like, oh, this is this is an adventure.
But did you do the round trip or you just want like, no, no, we.
Just started from the top and went to the bottom.
Oh, okay, gotcha. Oh that's fun.
Yeah?
Is it? No? I don't know what you do.
It was.
It was fun.
It was long. I don't know if I need to do it again, but it was fun.
You know.
It was a fun way to see the city as like a new person here. But yeah, But thirty five Potter is just me being really intentional about the months leading up to my thirty fifth birthday, pouring into myself and feeling as good as I can feel entering, you know, the second half of my thirties.
How do you know, because for me sometimes I can get stressful stetting that kind of goal. How do you know when you get there that you did it.
Well, we'll see how I feel when I wake up.
On my birthday.
Yeah, you're gonna be like wow.
I mean yeah, having the date of the deadline helps I but yeah, and I also think the process, it's like the process of it has felt really good. I've actually enjoyed the things that I've been doing, Like I've been more intentional about taking more steps each day or trying new workout classes, going back to therapy. Doing those things, I've actually felt really good. Also during that I think like, uh, that's the point, you know, the what is it like? The journey is the destination? Yeah?
Good this morning?
Yeah hm. I keep thinking about oh uncle ahead to.
I was gonna say, because this comes up a lot late lately, especially for young black women that I've been mentoring of teaching them to ask for help. What does it look like when you ask for help? Like how do you reach out and you're like I can't quite do this? Are you a good help asker? Or is it something that.
Kind of it depends? You know. I've been in a position where I have been the first in a lot of ways. I was I've been the first, you know, woman in my lineage who was not mom first, you know, generation college graduate, first corporate person now, first full time entrepreneur. And you know, I had a lot of friends who have podcasts now, but they didn't back when I was starting.
It's like, I'm I'm in so many areas where I am the first and the people around me, as incredible and as well intentioned as they are, they just don't have it to help me. They they don't they don't have it. They either don't have the resources, they don't have the knowledge. It's like they don't know. And so I when I ask for help, just get met with a lot of like, well I don't know, or like I'm sorry, there's not a whole lot I can do. That is that has been what asking for help has
looked like for me. My whole life so still a work in progress. It's hard.
Well, I mean, are you saying that in the sense that, like, have you had to build you know, your circle? I think as you your life goes in different directions, just has to expand and include more people to lift you up and to feel supportive and in that way, and like I can give an example, when we were all well, a lot of people were losing their minds about some algorithm change with iTunes and how that impacts or Apple and how that impacts podcast numbers.
They were worried about that. Last year, while.
I was in the throes of like postpartum, like joy, I was just like loving my baby and then whatever life was lifing, and then I woke up in twenty twenty four and I'm like, what the hell has happened here?
Well, what's going on?
And I texted you last year one of the few people I texted because like, when you know, the past couple of years, I've just tried to add more voices who do know what I'm going through, so that I can turn to someone and like get a little bit of support in those moments. Do you have you find that you've something that you've struggled with or like, you know when I say it like that, do you think that it's something that you're thinking about more?
Yeah? It is definitely something I'm thinking about more, But I can't say that I've been able to fully grasp it or that I feel like I've I've built that type of community where I would feel yeah, quite yet it's like a work in progress. That's what I'm working on, but haven't yet figured it out.
What do you feel like when you is it like the fear of Yeah, what do you have? Is this something that you're afraid of, Like that people won't be supportive or that they'll judge you if you ask certain things.
No, I just feel like the people who like could be helpful. I'm like, they're too busy. Oh okay, I don't want a bug them. People have lives, they have children, they have I mean me, I'm just like vibing out by myself. It's like I have all the time in the world for people to ask me stuff. But I'm like everybody else, like they have partners, they have kids, they have real life stuff going on. They're busy.
That's what you're telling yourself before you text.
Oh okay, that's the story, but I don't like I guess doct agree in my therapist so well, she'll say, is that true? And even if it's so, it's like one part it might be true that people are busy, but is that the only truth available. People are busy, but not so busy that they would not be there for you. So it's like those two things can go okay,
you know. And even just hearing when you just said you're the first to not be a team mom, first to go to college for you know, you sound like in front of my mind who's a bit of a survivalist, she survived this environment that she was not meant to survive and so oftentimes survivalists are like these rugged individuals, and so it's very difficult for a rugged individual because it's like that environment it was not conduce for me
to get out. I had to figure it out, and so you take that I have to figure it out with you into adulthood. I've seen it in her because I'm like, girl, yeah, you're not out here by yourself, and she's just like, but that's the thing that brought her out of that space was to learn to lean on herself and see it through. And so she's working through in therapy now how to like open herself up that there are people that will show up for you.
We know that was true, but that's not necessarily true now you know you actually don't because it's not possible really to go through life successfully all by yourself. That like, there are people you can trust, there are people you can lean on. Yes, people are busy, but not so busy that they can't lean on and love on you, because that's just how you know, that's how it goes. It's like, you know, Mandy has imagined you know, Mandy's
got beautiful rio and imagine Remy comes along. She's like sorry, sir, we tapped out over here. No, what happens with love. Love is expansive that when you add someone else, you actually grow to capacity to absorb them in. Like ask any parent. It wasn't like Mandy was like, well I don't know about.
This baby, words in my mouth.
You don't know how to you know what I mean?
Yeah?
Instead, literally her capacity to love just expanded and so like, So I just hope that you take care with you that like there are people who would love on you, care for you, look after you, that even though they are busy, because you're part of their life, they will expand to their capacity to welcome you in that you're not out here by yourself.
You know, people who have kids wish some mo would call us who's not a doctor or a daycare or a fucking like teachers saying you forgot their water bottle again.
I would love.
Making friends in your thirties is so crucial, and I have had I have had to, Like I mean, I'm one of my best friends now that I met a couple of years ago. I literally just saw her in a parking lot and I rolled my window. I pulled the story before roll my window down. And just like be my friend please. That's just like the only other black mom. Yeah, And I'll give you a second just to respond to what Tiffany said last, I'm curious, like how that hit for you?
No, I do. I it does hit a lot, And I think that in so many ways, that's what I want. And I think a lot of something that I'm also working on in therapy and it has changed how I've showed up in my work a little bit, is that a lot of my relationships that I did have were very dependent on people meeting me and feeling like, oh, I have to do you know, I have to be like everybody's big sister and always happy answer in order for people to find value in me. And I do
think some of my relationships have reflected that. So a lot of it is me like establishing new bonds with people that aren't dependent on that. And I do think that being in new cities and new spaces has definitely helped. Okay, And so now as I'm going about building community here that it's looking and feeling a little bit different.
I love that. Just like I tell Mandy sometimes I'm like Mandy, girl, I love you because I love you.
Yeah, no, and not someone I need to hear that because I am like very similar in the sense that if I don't feel like I have a purpose for someone, I'm like, so when are they going to realize there's not much to like hang out for not that interesting, which is a very disordered way of thinking and it's not healthy. I would not recommend zero out of ten. But also finding like being vulnerable enough to tell the
people in your community. I had to be a big girl this year and tell people like Tiffany and good friends of mine, like what I need, Like I actually really love having conversations and having phone calls and checking in on me and spending some time like I actually am struggling and I really need that. Could you help me with that need? And it's just so like it's so uncomfortable sometimes to be the person who's asking for
that of someone else. But the only like for me the other side of that was like, well, what else I'm going to?
Like what?
Just be in a deep depression all the time because I'm just like this shriveled up little like you know, like just starved being who's not being poured into And listen, I love a good hot bath and like going for a nature walk and putting on less on my on my on my headphones to take care. But community and like sisterhood and being seen by another human being. I mean biology wins every time, like we're humans and that's just what Yeah, it's what it's about, right, It's like
that connection. But yeah, it does get more challenging the older you get to put yourself out there and admit that you need it, not wanting.
To kids make friends at the park. They're like, Hi, that's your ball. Yeah, I'm gonna play. Yeah, I know. And then and then like they're like that's my bestie. I'm like, oh, what's her name?
Cat?
I'm just like ah. I wish it was so easy for adults like Hi, you seem cool. Thanks.
You would have be like, Okay, what's on the list of you're you're thirty five in a new city almost thirty five, sorry, thirty four thirty four point nine and a very new city. How are you making friends and new connections here? Did you have any like baseline, did you know anybody in New York?
First?
I did? I knew a few people here, and then honestly, the main way that I've been meeting people at just events. Thankfully, because of work, I get invited to a lot of events, whether that's creator events or getting invited to speak places, and so usually when I go to events, my goal is always to connect and exchange information with one new person, which also as an introvert, just feels a lot less overwhelming. Oh yes, and so with that, I that has been my strategy and it's been helpful so far.
I love that.
Oh that's such a great especially for introverts, like just one person. It's okay to just talk to one person. Yes, yeah, I'm very much in.
The bathroom, girl, love your shoes. That's like my favorite. Like when I'm trying to break that, you know, I'll be in the bathroom, you know, because the bathroom is is like the great equalizer. You just washing your hands. I think it's in the bathroom. Oh my god, girl, I love your shoes, you know, yeah, or whatever. And then afterwards, you know, you might, you know, you might make eye contact and then you start tit chatting, you know.
So that's like a good it's breaker for me, like love your shoes or your curls popping or whatever, like specifically because I'm shired, than people think, and so like that's kind of like a little like I'm like, when I go to bath and wash my hands, I'm sure they're gonna be some beautiful brown woman in there. I'll be able to compliment her well lack eyes across the room, and then I'll be able to tit chat and then and ease my nervousness.
Do you feel that sense like when I see another woman of color, I just feel so at home, Like I don't. It's so I have gotten so much more reliant on this. I think there's like this fatigue of being in corporate where you're just so starved of having other people who kind of get you. And it's just something I look for in every room I go in. Now, I'm like, where are my people? And maybe it's like
a little but I've just chosen to be optimistic. I'm just like, if there's a woman of color in the room, we are going to be a friend, We're going to chat. It's gonna be a relaxing space. I went to the pool and my one of my one of my good friends invited us to the pool, and like, I live in Westchester, which is like, you know, outside of Manhattan, and all that where the old suburban ladies go to live and die and anyway. The pool was like so not diverse. It was just like full of we're like
the only people of color there. Not only that, but like body type was wise. I was like very I stood out like a sour thout, I realized, and like, I'm someone who like, once you have a kid, you don't get to be self conscious about getting in a pool. You just got to get in that water because I'm not about to ruin his summer because I don't like the way.
That I look.
But it was such a deeply uncomfortable like afternoon for me that when I got home and I was journaling, I was like, that did not feel good. I don't think I want to go back to that place where you know, I'm just like sticking out in that way, and it's yeah, I'm hat like what would you say to someone when they're feeling like that last because I just in my mind, I'm like, trust your anxiety a little bit in this situation.
Oh yeah. I mean, so I grew up in Seattle and I lived there my entire life up until age thirty, and it was like I couldn't go anywhere without that feeling. When I was still there, it was just like, ugh, like I do not belong here. There is this coldness, is just this discomfort, And I do feel like that
is your intuition telling you something. And yes, I have picked up and moved a few times, and I don't think everybody necessarily needs to do that, but I do think that understanding you know, when you don't necessarily feel comfortable, or when something doesn't feel like your happy place, that's important information. But it's also good to know, okay, well, what would be your happy place? What would help you
feel more comfortable? And get specific about that so that we can seek out the spaces that we do feel better in.
Not that bowl, not never again. So summer is upon us. How are you guys taking care of yourselves this summer? Tif me, I want to hear have you thought it through?
Miss travel everywhere and do everything?
I am? Well, my aim for this summer is there's like, you know, a few I'm like learning from. Like kids are like the best, like teachers. So my niece and nephew they kind of dictate the Auntie, are we going to do the beach house again? So for the last four or five summers. I've rented a house down New Jersey like the Shore, which is great because it's fairly inexpensive for how many people you could pack in there. In the last two years, I've done like three groups
of people. So like my neighbors who I'm really close with, they come for the first few days, then my sisters and kids come for the last few days, and then the last few days. I used to spend by myself, but now that I'm dating someone, he's coming the last few days.
I am.
Now he's gonna be so geek. He got mentioned before, no I.
Have not, but we'll make a big deal about it. We don't make a big deal about.
It because he listens.
Said, that's how he knows he likes you.
I know. So so that's been great. So I'm like, Okay, the beach. And then I have a sister that lives in Chicago that we don't get to see as much. I have five sisters, four sisters, and so we're going to make our way to Chicago, likely in August. And then I promised Amelia, my niece that lives in New Jersey, that we would go to the White House because she was like, I saw you went to the White House, and because we went to Washington, DC with them, but
she wasn't allowed to go to the White House. And she was like why, I said, you can't just go and see the president. She's like, you did, That's it, you know what. She ain't long. So I reached out to like the liaison at the White House. They're like, yeah, let us know, we'll do a tour for you. She was like like I thought she's six man and so like,
so those are like, you know, so I'm planning. I'm trying my best to release my inner younger Tiffany like planning my summer the way a little kid would, which is connection, excitement. And so so far those are like my three quote unquote trips, and I have some business trips kind of flowing in. But I'm really looking forward to this summer. I don't want to spend as much time with family and friends as possible. That's just what
it looks like. I'm moving into my condo, my new condo soon, and I want to have like a housewarming, and so yeah, I'm just like other what other things can I do to create connection? So that's my summer.
I love it.
Play outside till the street lights come home and really serotonin boosts.
I'd be out there to watch Rio.
I'm playing soccer. I'm like, okay, why haven't I kicked a ball? This is fun up and down the asphalt, Like, yeah, it's fun, all right, let's what about you. I know we talked a little bit about dirty again, Dirty thirty five, thirty.
Five, but tell me, yes, I honestly, I'm on a similar way as Tiffany. I realize that I have not had what I would consider a fun summer since about twenty eighteen, of just spending time outside, spending time with friends, being enjoyed, going out, maybe a little bit of a hot girl summer. I just have not done that in several years. And so that's my intention for this year is to just have fun and enjoy my first summer
in New York. And so yeah, it's gonna be a lie little more like unserious, and I think I am the rest of the year and exploring the city, like things like walking Manhattan were part of my you know, summer bucket list of like doing all the things, seeing the sites, seeing the parks, going to the parties. From a work standpoint, I'm actually going to be doing a
summer of solo episodes. So I'm not going to be having any guests on the podcast over the summer, honestly, just because I want to have a little bit more of a relaxed schedule and so, you know, with booking guests and all of that, it just gets a little bit more stressful just with bringing people into the fold, and so I'm just taking a break and it's just going to be meat recording when I want to record and making it easy. Yay.
As a listener, I'm like, yay, you don't have to have a guess all the time.
Yeah. Yeah, And so I'm excited for that. I'm excited for a more relaxed summer of fun summer. I traveled so much last year that I kind of burned myself out on travel. So I don't have any trips planned currently and I'm just going to be in the city enjoying and having.
My It's like fifteen countries in that city, right.
It is, especially for my first summer. You know, I'm gonna have my version of like a hot girl summer and I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah. The city will have you, It will have you.
Really like being like I need a break from outside sometimes because there's so much to do and so much to see.
That sounds fun, I'm like, yeah, some are fun. Hell yeah.
I don't think I ever had more fun in New York than the summer I got let go from my job and I had like unemployment for a few months, and I just like benefits, you know, like I got a little check early when that could like buy stuff, and I had.
So much fun. I just like volunteered, I biked everywhere. It was great, all right.
So for me, this is the summer of it sounds like a lot of work, but I've kind of told myself, I'm getting a I'm getting a diploma in my own mental health because I have done therapy and I've done that for so long, but like I'm doing some group therapy for the first time, two different groups.
Now.
I'm gonna a CBT for anxiety group therapy, and i also have a group for dialectical therapy, which I'm in, which sounds so it's just like sounds so much, but actually it's just about right. I love it. Like I'm loving being in a group setting, a small group where we are like not just kind of like talk therapy,
but we're actually like, so how are we coping? And like that's why I talked about like basically putting your podcast on the list of ways to soothe me when I'm, you know, feeling anxious and just do something that makes me feel a little bit better. So that's a big thing. And then I'm not going to put pressure on as like I can just achieve it this summer. But I was listening to Balance Black Girl less again as I do, And did I.
Text you about this?
Uh?
You had a dietitian Culina Health founder on your show, Vanessa. It was the same week where I had just had my first meeting with a diet with a nutritionist and I have found her through my insurance and like it was fine, but it wasn't like really clicking for me. But because of that episode, I went and looked up Kulina and then I filled out there long sort of like entry form and now I have a whole dietitian and I've been seeing her for I think this is the fifth week coming up.
And really the key for me was.
Like this is now an ad for cooling and that's fine, is that you can find a nutritionist who specializes in like your dysfunction with food, and so my dysfunction is around anxiety induced eating and like soothing with food, and she this dietitian. It has been already like really like the first time I'm thinking so differently about my relationship with food and it has nothing to do with dieting and exercise. And it's really been an eye opening experience.
And I have, you know, balanced Black Girl to thank for connecting me with that with that nutritionist company. So those are the two things. I'm just like wellness but like in my mind trying to heal some of this crap that I have going on, and then just like building better skills so I can cope with the muchness
of life. And the the plot. The plot sometimes is a little too It's like giving like Steve and King over here, and I'm hoping for like more, i don't know, like more of a Nicholas Sparks kind of plot, Like I'm like that for my life right now.
Hey, Mandy, I love that. I'm so glad that you were able to meet with a dietician from Cleena and that it's been helpful.
Yeah, they're great, I mean ten out of ten and spiritual and my insurance covers fifty sessions. I was like, cool, ye everyone, Yes, that's one of the things she talked about was how people don't think that their insurance will cover it. But yeah, fifty sessions. I don't even have a copey, And I'm just like it, is.
This your personal show or through your business? Is this like through your husband Mandy's insurance?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I have my my husband's insurance. Yes, shout out to the government. You're good for something.
The government.
Sure, yes, it's nice. Okay, all right, Less, should we wrap up? There a need like final thought? Where can we find y'all? Where can people connect?
Yes?
Okay, wait, one more thing I was going to say about your mental health excursion, Mandy that I love is that sometimes just talk therapy, one on one talking to a therapist can be great. And I do think a lot of us reach a point where we're like, do you got anything stronger? Like I know exactly what happened when I was seven, That makes me do x y
Z what am I going to do about it? And so similarly, in my go round of therapy this time around, I am with a therapist who specializes in EMDR and somatic practices, so like I did help me to process it, yes, and work through traumatic experiences.
Yeah.
So also just want to say that for people like if just talking, if you feel like you've you've made progress with just talking, but you need something else. There's so many other forms of therapies out there, so don't be afraid to seek those out.
Skills based therapy.
I was stuck and them my therapist she actually does do that because she's a trauma based therapist, and so I was like what And I was like this is dumb because I was like, oh, thuse are on the surface, it feels very woo woo, but I mean we are lacked, Okay. I was like, wow, well that was powerful.
It's like when we people ask us, like Tiffany when we do shows, and it's like above the four oh one K, like the four one K is the most basic form of investing in retirement savings and we're like, no, let's get to some real like how do people really make money? Like how are we really impacting our mental health? And I truly believe it's that like more nuanced skills
based like niche down form of therapy. I'm so glad that people are like I think the pandemic played a big role in that, like these virtual versions of therapy, people are getting much more like aware of it and using it. But I think a lot of people will need that next level and need to know where to go from them, so where to go from there? So I'm glad that you brought up is it E M
D R. Yeah, okay, awesome. And I brought up dialectical behavioral therapy and I had not heard of that ever, but highly recommend ten out of ten.
I just love the therapy has just become commonplace for brown people. Yes, you know what I mean, that just wasn't the case that help it is. No, No, it's become because I mean it just I mean I just almost everyone who I talk to, they're like my therapist said, oh yeah, I'd opened to therapy, whereas before it's like you need Jesus, oh yeah, you know yeah, or because even even pastors and things I'm seeing them say that yes, certainly,
pray on it, but therapy is also a tool. And I'm like, okay, I love that it's just becoming not this like this scary woo woo, Like you know, if you prayed you would need it thing and so because we need it, especially if you are a black or brown person living in the US of a child. Lord knows, it's just trauma and just your birth, so just therapy.
So yes, ma'am with.
That ask for help, y'all.
Thank you Less for coming on, Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh, I had such a good time talking to the two of you.
Good. I feel calmer already. All Right, you guys, go follow, subscribe, leave a review for Balanced Black Girl and you can follow. I'll do your promo for you so you can follow Less on Instagram at balance Less. You can see her incredible new cover art for her podcast when she relaunched What Dear Media. And Yeah, I can't say enough great things about you Lass, thanks for joining the show.
Thank you so much.