Why don't always forget our what is our damn opening? Hey? You know that's Tiffany find bad so I always forget, you know, My memory is like yo, okay, wait wait oh yeah, okay, hey, hey hey we're back.
We're black.
We're extra brown today in the studio. AMBI should ambition, AMBI should ambition, ambition. We're back in a studio. Well, the stew Manny's still out with the bibby, but we have some extra brown in the studio today. Actually, one of the first brown people that've ever seen in personal finance. I remember I was like a fan, a fan far news to hobbies in the studio.
Oh my gosh, I am beyond honored, tiff Do you know do you remember when we first met?
I do, girl, because I was sweating you so hard. I was like, my god, hild I was like.
You were over our bread and butter. We were eating like bread and butter, ice ice water. It was a't some dinner at finn Con and we had just luck would have it. We were seated next to each other and I was just blown away by you because you were like, I'm a preschool teacher right now, but wait, wait, world, I have a plan. I'm gonna help millions of women get out of debt, make money, get rich. I was like wow, but.
I remember it was funny because like I remember, it was like I'm not gonna say her name because we're cool now, but I just have I was mad at her for years for this because initially your seat was someplace else, like you were sitting someplace else. Oh, and I wanted to sit next to you because I was like, oh my god, I want to say it's for news. I talked to her at this event, but then the other person like moved my stuff and sat in the seat, assuming that you were going to come back and sit
in your seat. And I remember I was like, oh my god, so much trauma. You have the scene and I was like no, So then I sat at the other table like and I was just like, oh, I guess I was just.
Know the universe, yes found us. It was like, no, that's like my plan.
And then you end up sitting next to me. And I looked at the lady like, eh, no, she's not a cool now, so I want to call her name out. But but I just remember, like, yes, we had some teeth. I know, we had like the best conversation and you were just like so gracious and honestly you were just an example of like, wow, this thing can be bigger than well one. You can be brown in this space, you could be a woman in this space. You could be yourself in the space, and it could be bigger
than you know, like just like what was possible. I mean, you've had your own shows, you you know, your podcast So Money is huge. Some of y'all forgot I'm just talking for a newss Like like, I'm like, wait, let me int to do that.
Everybody who the F I am?
So I'm like, hey girl, So anyway for news? So I'm saying it right to Robbie right, yes, yes, yes, okay. She's one of America's the leading personal financial authorities, hooked on helping you live your richest and happiest life. She's a multi best selling financial author former She's a former CNBC host and creator of the Webby nominated podcast So Money, which I have been on. Yes, she has become one
of the country's favorite go to money experts. The New York Times calls her advice perfectly practical and you already know you know they may know what they say and whatever.
They're really good to the literation that New York Times. Let Me Tell You So.
Farnus's award winning, critically acclaimed podcast, So Money, has surpassed twenty five million downloads thanks to one of her kind interviews and deep conversations about money. On the show Spotlights. She spotlights leading experts, authors, and influencers from Arianna Huffington to Margaret Chow, Queen Latifah, You Got Queen Latifah and I Love her and Tim Gunn and me about their
financial perspectives, money failures, and habits. She also answers listeners personal financial questions each week, and she has a new book coming out called A Healthy State of Panic, which if you could have seen us before we got all, we were both running a little raggedy and crazy and so welcome to the podcast for news.
Thank you, Thank you so much, Tiffany. What a full circle moment for me. Yeah, I'm I'm just excited to be sharing the stage with you, the spotlight with you. It's been amazing watching you help so many people, make such differences in people's lives. And thank you so much for endorsing A Healthy State of Panic, one of the first to get their hands on it and say, yes, yes, world, let's let's read this. But you know how hard is
to sell a book. You know, I got you and Margaret cho and Kelly Rippa and maz Ja Brownie for those of you who don't know, he's an Iranian comedian and actor. I was blessed to have this sort of early praise for the book and just excited to share it with your audience. Now.
Yeah, well if you can't say, oh, like Forarnuci is not just like this dope, badass financial educator. She's my friend friend. We're dinner, like what's that? Didn't know that was lunch at that? Like? What was that place?
For? My husband calls it fubu, you know that's it's like boo, I studied friendshop. I should know this. It's got a lot more letters than what it sounds like. But it's a lovely, amazing my favorite restaurant in Montclair. You know, they tried to open up during the pandemic and they couldn't and now it's just like blowing up and it's it's wonderful. We went there, you and I I.
Was like so yummy and so yeah, I so first, Sharah, how did you get into this space? Like, you know, was it because you know, like I said, I was a preschool teacher. But how did you get into the personal finance space?
Well, two things I think were the tailwinds. I will start with the earlier, uh I think piece of the story, which is that I'm the daughter of immigrants from Iran. And I mean, you know, I don't care where your parents are from. If you're a daughter or a son of immigrants in America, you're going to be somebody. Like it's inevitable, something will happen. You will make it happen. I think that one thing that was culturally unique for us in our home was that we talked about money
a lot, the good and the bad. As I write in my book, a healthy state of panic, like the fear of money was instilled in me early, and learning to have a relationship with money was instilled in me early. So when I think about when I get afraid of money, what does it sound like? What does it taste like? What does it smell like, it's like fists banging on a laminate kitchen table. Because my parents argued about money a lot. Also though they laughed about money, and they
enjoyed money, and they worked hard for their money. So I got to see all these dimensions around money. But I will be dishonest if I said that this relationship that I have with money isn't sometimes fear based. But it's good because it's helped me really figure out what my money narrative is, what I want in my financial relationship. It's for helping recognize some of the myths that I've held onto about money and those myths that have gotten
in my way sometimes in the early stages. So I credit my upbringing for giving me really a mature relationship and an emotional relationship with money that I don't think anybody really gets growing up, let alone the literacy, but the actual having that emotional strength around money. And then
fast forward, I studied finance in college. I went to journalism school, got my master's in journalisms, and very early on knew that I was interested in telling financial stories and I wasn't interested in doing Excel spreadsheet work, Like I didn't want to go work for a bank, which is what a lot of my classmates did. You know, with a finance degree, that's a natural progression. But I was the crazy one who was like I want to make a lot less money, and I want to write
articles and tell stories about money. But I think my sense of business and sales spirit that I got in college and working a lot carried with me into the work of journalism, which they don't teach you in journalism schools, like how to be entrepreneurial in this space, how to really have ownership in your with your content, at least not when I was starting out, and so fast forward.
I mean, it's I guess it's no coincidence that I am or I am, But it's not like I grew up going, oh, I can't wait to one day have a financial podcast. You know, that's not really what a four year old goes around thinking. But I knew that I wanted to be in service. I knew that I wanted to help people, and I knew that I wasn't uncomfortable about money around money. I didn't think that was taboo, and I knew that was special, so I ran with it.
Yeah, I love that, And so I mean, you made this transition to like being visible, Like was that really weird? Because there were like very few women, let alone women of color, you know, who were like visible on TV. I remember you had I remember vaguely, like I think, I don't know if you're you had a show. You had like a couple of shows, but I remember one like the set was like red. Was that called So Money?
I can't remember. But then you had this other show when you were like interviewing like billionaires, like oh, private jets, like you had so many different lives in this personal Oh my gosh.
People, you know, it's funny. People be like, oh my god, you have a podcast. That's amazing. I'm like, I have been around so long, Like you don't even know the rest of it. That's good. I guess. I guess I've been using some good skincare all these years and they stay out of the sun. But like, I mean, I remember being at a press conference for that show that you're referring to, was for CNBC called Follow the Leader.
It was such an incredible opportunity. It was I've had a lot of these one hit wonders in the television world.
You know.
It's like before streaming, before before even really like the social media world took off and you could have your own show on your own TikTok or Instagram, like you had the powers that be were the studios and the networks and these like you know, you really it was
really hard to make a show fly. And so I got this opportunity with CNBC to follow billionaires and mega CEOs who were like CEOs slash rock stars, you know, and just be flats on the wall, be a fly on the wall, get to learn, you know, what was the secret to their success. And it was very exciting. I had to go on lots of private planes and eat like a lot of fancy food, and it was it was one for the books, but we didn't get renewed.
I remember going to the press conference for that show and a journalist stood up and he said, I remember you when you were like, you know, you were like writing for am New York which audience that is a free subway newspaper that is distributed widely in New York City, and I had a byline. I mean I got more recognition from that sometimes and anything because I had my picture in my byline. And when you're on the subway and you're reading a you know, it's like a captive audience.
I remember going to a Banana Republic and showing my ID and the woman was like, are you the fernish truby that writes me, I am New York. I'm like, well, I also have a book, which clearly you have not read. But yes, that is me. Now can I get the discount?
You know.
This this entitle me to some sort of discount. Yeah, but I have I've done. I've had the privilege of having so many different experiences, and I think I really went after that, you know, I want I'm I get bored easily. I don't know about you. I don't think I have ADHD. My son does. And I've talked about that a lot. If they say it runs in the family, who knows. Maybe I have it and I have never been tested. But I'm just somebody who get I don't idle. Well,
I need a lot of variety. I like appetizers. I cannot commit to an entree, Tiffany, I need like three appetizers. Can I have some of yours?
You know?
And So this idea that I was going to pursue journalism and just be a writer, or just be a radio host, or just do television frightened me. Speaking of panic and healthy fear, and I think it led me to try to design a life and a career that allowed me to try and do a lot of things and not everything sticks, but at least you have fun trying.
I was going to ask you, is that how you got to your book? Because first of all, what number book are you on now?
For?
Wow? So is that how you got to this book Healthy State of Panic? Like, because you're just like, because you have this super successful podcast that's doing really well, so money, you know, you speak, I know you do like brand partnerships, and then you've added this other because I know how hard I want to write a book than to to market it to sell it. So is that why you've written A Healthy State of Panic? Because you're like, I have something else to say, and like, I'm not quite busy.
Enough right, Oh my gosh, I don't.
I think.
So, this has been nine years since I've published a book. I think because I needed the time to recover from the last book launch. As you know, it's a lot of work. And I think if the genesis of this book again, I think goes back to my upbringing as a little girl who was raised in an immigrant family. Terrified. I was a terrified little girl, Tiffany, my mother even
will say I did that on purpose. I raised you to be afraid on purpose, because let's remember my mother, she's nineteen when she had me, doesn't speak the language, isn't familiar with the culture, newly married, newly apparent living in Worcestern, Massachusetts, which at the time and still was, you know, known for a lot of just five o'clock news crime, you know, like break ins and theft and kidnappings. It was the eighties, right, So she was scared and
she channeled that into her daughter me. And so I was afraid of strangers and eating other people's snacks because she told me they had poison in them.
Right.
I was afraid of being abandoned. I was afraid of like getting lost at the mall. I was afraid of being home alone. And so the fear wasn't always a friend, Like it got me into a lot of comical mischief and you know, backfired. But I will say that I had an early kind of developmental relationship with fear, and it transpired to the point where even as I was a young adult, I wouldn't say that I had mastered my fears. I was still like letting fear as it does,
take me for a ride. And I was allowing it to block me from opportunities and realizing my real potential. So I had to, like a lot of a young adults, sort of like retrain and reparent yourself, but not abandoning the fear, saying, Okay, fear keeps showing up, I cannot be this fearless person. So maybe there is a way to work with fear, to listen to fear, to appreciate fear, to honor fear, to then be able to make the decisions that matter at life's crossroads. And I wanted to
write a book. Like with all of my books, I feel like I want to say something that's new, that's different, that's also capturing the zeitgeist. Like my last book was about female breadwinners and what happens when you make more in your hetero relationship as a woman, and that was
very taboo back then. We talk about it now, but it was like really really under wraps into in the early two thousands, and I was living that reality, and I was like, this is a great book topic, because when nobody wants to talk about something, that's when you know you have a good idea fast forward. I was like, Okay, right now in our world, we're dealing with still a lot of big financial conundrums, but also at the intersection
of mental health and mental wellness. And year after year, day after day, there was like all these books about being fearless, and I felt like we were not appreciating fear in our culture in the way that I have that I've learned to really embrace. And so A healthy state of panic is a book that's going to help anybody out there like me who has gone through life realizing that fear just doesn't go away. This idea of
being fearless that is not working. So my offer is what if we actually when fear shows up, we look at it, We ask it questions, We say, Okay, why are you here? Sometimes fear is there to help us, It doesn't want to derail us. We allow it. But I think that we can have agency here now that we're adults, and we can say, okay, fear, what you
got for me? And I have done this over and over again in my life, whether it's when making big high stakes financial decisions, career choices, decisions about who to marry, who to not marry, raising my kids, being good to myself. I think that fear when we listen to it, like
all emotions. All emotions are valid. Fear too. There was actually a study this year because they probably knew how a book coming out, but a bunch of scientists got together and they were like, you know what, they looked at all these sort of like bad emotions that we have branded bad. They're not really bad, but we just as a culture have decided that things like fear, sadness, and anger, we don't want anything to do with them. Happiness, joy, laughter,
let's all focus on that. But those feelings, those that we have breed bad. So they did a study and they've said that those they found that those who perceive actually fear and anger and said is as bad or problematic, are unhappier than those of us who accept these emotions even just as neutral. And I would go a step further and say, no, these these emotions actually have wisdom, and we should listen to them and honor them, because
when we do, we are honoring ourselves. Fear for me is very personal for you, Tiffany, It's different when it shows up, it's for different reasons, and so wouldn't you want to explore that. I just feel like when we get closer to how we feel. We get closer to who we are and what our values are. And that's the offering in this book. It's it's looking at money and work and all these really big, big, big moves that we make in our lives through the lens of your fears. And you know, I think it can be
funny sometimes. I hope. I don't want this to be a serious book, you know, like it's not. It's not meant to be too too, too too serious. I want people to be on it, to be approachable, because a book about fear can be scary, yes, overwhelming.
Yeah, these big like because you're right, like you know, like even in grief. This is one thing I learned from my therapist. She was like, grief, even with grief, it brings gifts, she calls them, like the gifts of grief. Yes, you know, so much clarity, just like you know, like is that what I really want to do? Is this? You know, is this direction? I want to go to? Same thing with fear, right, because fear is an indicator, Like wait, this is like you're something internally is saying
pay attention, pay attention, pay attention. You know, like if I'm feeling this way, maybe you know that's actually it's because that's I don't want to become. Like I remember after graduating, I was going to graduate college and I was really afraid of graduating college. It's because what I had lined up this boring. I had done this internship which was so boring, and they'd offer me a job and I was like, okay, even though I hated it. I used to cry every day. So I was afraid
to graduate. And because I dove into that fear, what I was really saying was I don't want the life I've got lined up because I don't want to work there. But I know that my parents will be like, oh, that's so good, you know, And I just remember, like I quietly, you know, declined and decided. I accepted a job at a local daycare center. And I did not tell my parents because it was like telling them I've
decided to become a drug dealer. Especially with immigrant parents are like, we did it work so hot for you too?
Yes?
Oh my god, I can see I can see how fear really it's like a it's a mechanism that you can use to say, wait, what am I actually really saying?
You know, Like, and I think with your story, Tiffany, I think what you were What I try to do in the book is try to distill the fear even further. So there's nine chapters and each chapter is dedicated to a kind of fear because well, we typically what we tend to do in our culture is were like fear four letter word monolith. Fear has many brands and flavors. Fear of failure is I think what you were probably experiencing in that moment, this idea that you were going
to take on this opportunity. And although all the the you know, everybody was excited for you, but like you personally, were not going to feel successful in that. And so fear of failure is one of the chapters. It's one of the biggest chapters because I got a lot of stories about my fears of failure. But there is wisdom. Every time failure, fear of failure shows up, it could
be telling you multiple things. And I think in that instance, you were right to sort of listen to that fear was telling you that you want to move towards a new definition of success. Yes, so that's an opportunity that had you not experienced that fear, had you not said like, hey, fear, what's.
The girl, I'll be working a cubicle right now talking about listening to so money in a cubicle.
Like, what a shame for all of us? What a shame for all of humanity? If that was your if that was your plight. So I I journey through the book. There's nine chapters, nine different fears, starting with the ones that we tend to develop early on in our lives. Fear of rejection and fear of loneliness because who hasn't been rejected and who hasn't felt lonely? And then it goes into fomo because it is a twenty first century book, and the fear of missing out on other people's fun
what is that actually telling you to do? Lots of stuff? The fear of exposure. I kind of made this one up, but I'm sticking with it. So there is a big push in our culture to be vulnerable, which I can appreciate. I have gone there, I've gone to the depths with certain audiences, certain people. I've shown my true self when it felt right. But I think there is a push to be vulnerable all the time, and some people don't know the boundaries, and then they get in trouble.
They say all the things that's not the plexus. No.
I mean it may sound to us like because maybe we've we've experienced it, and we're like, yeah, you don't do that, But for the person reading the book, who might be in her early twenties or his early twenties, and they're like, but I thought I was supposed to being my whole self to work. I thought I was supposed to tell everybody all the things I was supposed
to speak up all the time. Well, in theory, that would be great, but we don't live in a euphoria like that, Like the world is not always so forgiving
of people that have different opinions or different backgrounds. And not to say that you have to hide that or lie about that, but I think this chapter is really about how to be discerning when fear of exposure, which means like you're afraid of like someone finding out something personal about you that is sacred, Like I don't think that everyone needs to know everything about me, Yeah, you know, like I share that with certain people, but not everybody. And so how to read the room when that fear
shows up. It's telling you to read the room. Case in point I was at con and I was on stage with a bunch of uh with. It was a panel on how to negotiate and earn your value as a creator and an entrepreneur and personal finance and touche that this person asked this question because it was about negotiating and earning your value, and she said, got up in the audience full of people I don't know, raised your hand and said, farnush, how much money do you make?
Like actually, and they like, girl, I'm how to get robbed on the rain?
Well, I mean, thank you for thinking I make that much money. But that was just like I was, like, I appreciate the question, but in this forum, in this moment, not appropriate for me. Some people may be willing to go there. But that fear of exposure crawled up in that moment and like showed up and like was staring at me in the face, like you really want to go there, farnush with all these strangers. You want to tell these people what's on your w two And I'll
tell you why I was afraid. It wasn't because I was afraid of maybe what people might think. I don't even know what people might think, but I'll tell you what my personal fears there were telling me. It was that you don't know who's in the room. You don't
know who's in the room. I would love to think that everybody in this room is like an advocate and supports me, and would be like, yeah, you should earn that and then some But I know, because I've lived my life and I have experience in this that when people sometimes find out how much you make, they judge you for that in ways that I don't want the distraction and I don't also want to get penalized. So there was a story that before this happened, I'd experienced
something that was completely complete BS. But I was negotiating a deal with a brand. This was round two of the negotiations. We had already worked together, I had delivered on all points, and they were coming back to do another term. So I obviously asked for more money, and I was negotiating this through my agent. But my agent came back to me and he said, you'll never believe what they just said. I said, what did they say was actually for more? But I wasn't asking for you know,
crazy amounts. It was. It would have been a lot for me, but not a lot for them, also considering that they were getting a lot of value. He said, the woman who's their rep, the brand rep said, doesn't furnish already make enough?
Oh?
Yes, see, so this is going on in the world, Tiffany, right, and this is a woman, a woman. So I said to my agent, please go back with the following transcript. Are you sure you want to go on the record for saying that to a woman? And I got my lunch. Long story short, I got my money.
Wait wait, wait, wait, wait for news. Should give me one second. We need to pay some bills. We're going to be right back. Have to pay some bills. You can hear more about for news and how to lean into fear. We'll be right back, black and brown and weird back far what you're saying again.
My point is is that there's a reason employers are not allowed to ask you how much should you make in your previous job? Okay, so if you can accept that, that is cool like that. I get that. I get why I shouldn't be cornered during a job interview to give somebody my salary history because it can be used against me.
Sangos.
When you're an entrepreneur working in a field where you know there are people unfortunately out there that devalue you and will use what you make as a weapon against you. Now, having said all that, back to that fin Con moment on stage, this woman's asking me how much I make? I said, look, I will happily have this conversation with you one on one. Yes, And I said, anybody else in this room who wants to talk about, you know, negotiating brand contracts and all that, like, I'll beat the
Starbucks downstairs. And a table of seven or eight of us got together and we talked and we are still in touch. So I think that when the fear of exposure shows up, and this is like a real important chapter in the book, especially now, because it may not seem like has anything to do with money or work, but it shows up in these contexts, right, that you should take a beat. And it doesn't mean you run away or you hide like sometimes we think fear is
nudging us to do. No, it's just saying, read the room, figure out if you reveal this piece of information about yourself, Like, is the audience going to be receptive? Does it deserve to know your goods? Not every audience deserves to know all the special things about you, at least not right away or in certain contexts like find your own time, find your own place, find your own people.
So you're saying that one of the things I hear you saying is that fear helps to create like an internal awareness.
Yes, it's all about that. It's all about turning you inward, Tiffany, And I think in a world where there are a lot of distractions, and there's a lot of push pull, and you're being driven in million directions and you're looking at someone's in Instagram or you're looking at you know, what your parents thought you wanted, should do, could do, and we forget to just quiet all of that and think about what it is that we want. Who am
I at the end of the day. And fear is like this icebreaker that that that gets us to do that, that wants us to do that ultimately. I mean, look, if not for fear, you and I would not be here.
Yeah, So why is our.
Culture so anti fear? Why are we so like, oh my god, you need to be fearless. You got to ignore your fears, fight your fears. Poor fear, poor old fear. You know, like it's just trying to help us out fear.
I feel like you are fear as new pr agent. You're like, I mean, I mean, that's the.
First page of the book. It's my it's my first line of the intro. I said, Uh, you know, fear has had some really bad pr for as long as I can remember, since the days of the Great Depression, when President rose Belt told a see of hungry, penniless Americans during the Great Depression that you have nothing to fear but fear itself. What kind of a privileged statement is that? I'm I am hungry, mister President, I'm afraid
that I will not find work. And you know what, in every moment in my life where I have been afraid, I have found opportunity. I have gotten creative.
Yes, I was gonna say, like, what are some of the benefits that you have found? Like I would love for to see her like yeah, Like, oh my gosh, Like you know, you don't have to necessarily share what you were afraid of if you're not comfortable. But like, on the other side of that, what are some of those Oh? Thank God for that fear of that moment, because as a result, this thing came out of it.
The gosh, every chapter there are so many stories tivity. Oh my gosh, what would you like to know about I mean, I mean it's cliche, but like moving in the pandemic, right, I was afraid of staying where I was with my family four in Brooklyn, in our small apartment that we were already planning to move to the suburbs. But the pandemic as a tailwind, it like got us out of that city real fast. And it was one of those moments where I thought, I'm either making the
best decision or the worst decision. But I was afraid and I was gonna. I had to move. I had to do something. What made that decision viable? Even if so, I was ready for it to blow up in my face. I was, I'm always ready for I always have a plan B, C or D. My son is My son is nine, and uh he knows like I'm like, Okay, my job as a parent is done because I'll say, what if they don't have the thing that you want at the store, what's your plan? B? He mom, Mommy, I have a plan C and a D.
Okay, that's really smart though, because you got as bad as the hell out, Like where is my car ranger? Right?
I was like, what if they don't have Sonic and they don't have teenage meaning Minsta Turtles, and you're gonna have to get like Pokemon, which was like last season's obsession. And so I think that that's teaching them that life won't go your way. Usually it won't and not only And I love my Plan b's and c's and d's. I think they're equally as great as Plan A. You got to get yourself there and rallying behind those alternate plans because that's how you get through life feeling good
and happy, you know. And so that was one reason. That was one obvious like fear driven. I talk about how, oh my gosh, we were about to embark on a big renovation project in Brooklyn. We were going to come we were combining apartments, and we were going to have to move out of our apartment for four months to do this. And I had a baby at the time.
I didn't have my second yet. I was just evan was I think, I don't know, six months, seven months, and the night before we're about to like do this, and I've got movers coming to take my stuff into storage. I've signed the sublet to go basically uproot my family to another to Williamsburg, which is like, you know for Brooklyn people in Brooklyn. I was going from like downtown Brooklyn to Williamsburg is basically like banning myself from the world and.
Near Promozoto radical it comes to their areas.
Were such snobs. We're such like you know, micro city.
You know.
So the contractor that we had hired, who was recommended by an architect whom we had met several times, lovely man. We're about to meet for our final budget meeting to go over the budget and he comes into my apartment. I swear to a kid, you not hitting. He was like Tiffany. He was like sideways.
He was like he was like that that like that.
Slip was it a V eight commercial where they come in like.
Side He drunk.
He was holding it together and he wasn't like falling over himself. But he was like a different person. He was loud, he was snippetty.
He insulted me.
At one point I said, I said, I want to just talk about the flooring because the flooring was really expensive. I was like, can we shop this around? And he goes, I thought, you like nice things? And I was like oh, okay, okay. Suddenly got really hostile in the room and like my architect, I'm looking at her like, do you are you watching this movie? Like I don't know what's going on? Like this is the part of nice nice contractor is now by like belligerent? I don't know what's going on.
Man, it you know how like when they watch it when you do him play and it's like what was that? Like your your like if you can't do the play, like let's just say understudy, yes, your understudy.
Yeah, he was totally the understudy. And I was like, I don't know what his deal is. And also I was like, all right, let's look at the budget. And he didn't bring the budget to the budget meeting.
Wow.
So I said, you know what, let's just wrap well convened in the morning, but between you and me, like I need to know what was going on. I just get to the bottom of this guy. So I pulled my architect aside, I said, can you please follow with him and find out what is going on? And so she called him that night and at first he denied everything. He's like, oh, I thought the meeting went great. She's like,
you clearly weren't there, like what was going on? And then after a little bit of you know, here and there, he said, well, actually I my cousins were in town. We went out for some beers, and then I took my back paid medicine, and then he thought it was a good idea to come to a meeting. Now, I don't fault him for that, like taking his medicine with his beers four hours apart, but whatever, Like do that in your home. Don't come to a meeting at someone's
house and then pretend like everything is okay. Yeah, if he had just canceled that meeting, he would have been fine. He would have been covered. And because here's what happened. When I found out that he did that to us and thought it was cool. And he's the contractor, he's not like, he's not the man man. You know, he's dealing with heavy machinery and he's dealing with a team and New York City laws. And I said, I cannot hire him. And this was this specific fear that I had,
was the fear of failure. I feared that if I hired him, the project would fail because he would show up again. I couldn't trust him, and there's a whole section in that chapter about red flags. I love red flags. Red flags are your friends. When people show up as they are in their truth, believe them.
Yeah, you know.
And I just felt like I was gonna I was afraid that if I fired him that I was going to lose out on all this money. I was not I was supposed to move into a sublet, Like, how could I do this? I should just people wanted me to turn a cheek. My architect even was like, I've never seen him like this. I don't think it's going to happen again. But I was like, I just here's
what you ask yourself. If in a year or three months something blows up and it's him doing his thing again, who would you just be like, Oh, I didn't see that coming, because you did, because I did. And it was not a small thing. Yeah, and these were it was a huge six figure project. People were involved, lives were involved, the law was involved, and I just couldn't know. So I did bite the bullet. I mean, I cut losses there. I moved into a sublet that I didn't
need to. For the first month, I had to somehow scramble to find a new contractor. I had things in storage that I didn't need to so I had spent all this money that was just sunk costs to that point.
But I knew that.
There was a bigger fear waiting for me, a bigger disaster waiting for me. And that's really what a lot of times it comes down to. When you feel fear and you're thinking, do I do something? Do I not? Here's what I want to offer you. Think about if you don't do anything with this fear, if this fear does what it sometimes does does when we're not really really being thoughtful or calculating, just like it stops us
in our tracks, like it freezes us. You don't want that, because think about in a year or down the road, you ignored this, you didn't do anything, you thought you were gonna be fearless, something else bigger happens. That's scarier.
Yeah, honestly, And this just really resonates with me, especially over the last two years. I remember like so like I didn't give I have my stepdaughter, Alyssa. She's awesome who for the first time today she sent me like this jit that said I love you, and I was like, oh, I mean, she's a teenager. So that's why get so sweet. I know, that's what I'm saying. Like I was like, what I mean, I always tell her I love her, like I dropped off for school. I love you, you know,
I get up to I love you. She always responds. But this is like the first unprompted like not I love you. So these Jordans, I really like, you know, yeah yeah yeah, not a tea up. It was just sounds super sweet. But like I remember, like I was never really sure. I mean, if you guys listen to the podcast for a while, like I'm like, I mean, I love kids, like I taught preschool because I love kids, but I was never one hundred thousand percent like I
definitely want to be a mom. But I remember that I had this fear that if I didn't try, I would live to regret it. I knew that for sure. I was like and it was like and I knew Durell was like like an amazing dad, so I was like, you know, worst case scenario, this kid got an awesome da, like just in case I don't work out. So but I just remember distinctly thinking I'm not sure. I mean, I think I want to be a mom, I'm not sure, but I know one hundred percent that if I don't try,
I'm going to regret it. Because there was this fear that was like pulsing, and so I was able to conceive naturally. I did IVF for like three years and it didn't work out. Actually did our last implementation like with the embryo, like the in October, and Drel passed away in November. But because I did those three years, because I asked my therapist, I said, of all the things I'm going through with grief, why is it I don't feel bad that I didn't give birth any kids?
She said, because you did everything possible. Yes, And to your point, I, of all the other emotions I have to deal with, that's not one of them. Because that fear made me take action, and because I did everything. I remember at the time, my IVF doctor was like, Tiffany, you're like my best patient. You're here every single week. You've taken all the meds, you haven't skipped, You've done everything.
I even went vegan for like almost like a year and a half because I wasn't sure, like like anything possible to make sure that I could be prepared. So it took that. I you know, so many people when someone passes away to live with regret, you know, and that wasn't something that wasn't a regret which would have been a heavy one because what if I had let the budget needs to get in the way, you know,
I was a workaholic. What if I had let that because it was I was this close to being like later later, later, then I would be sitting here with so much regret, like why didn't I try? What was more important than try? You know, But I don't have
that because I did. And so to your point, that is a that was a beautiful fear that allowed me to do something that now I can like rest easy when it comes to that component of my life because I I did all that I was capable of doing, and if it was supposed to happen, it wasn't because I didn't do all that I was capable. So I can let that, let that go. So I'm grateful. And there's so many instances of that, you know, for me,
like grateful for that fear. So I'm super excited to read your book because to your point, you know, I think so many of us were taught to lean back from fear, and what it sounds like is that your book really teaches us to lean into it and use it as a tool that it was intended, I know, and.
It's available to all of us. We are all experts. I mean, if we were going by Malcolm Glodwell's ten thousand hour rule, we are bona fide fear experts. Just add it to your LinkedIn profile.
Just do it.
You are there, my friends. I mean, thinking about this world that we live in and how so many resources are inaccessible, right, there's just not equity when it comes to the availability of tools and resources to help us navigate life. Fear is abundant.
It is.
It is a natural resource, and what a gift if we just allow it to be that, if we just allow it, if it's just a reframe, it's a simple reframe. And to your story about you know, doing all the things you can do that taking control of what is a completely uncertain moment. I mean, anyone trying to get pregnant, you know, you just have to like cross your fingers. It's just, you know, you think you have so much
of a role in that. But I think what I'm hearing from you in that story is that you had this fear of uncertainty, and you decided to create order in the disorder, and your best way of doing that was to do what you could do, what can you control? And that's often what the fear of uncertainty is nudging us towards. It's not asking us to spiral, it's not telling us to chase our tails. It's not telling us to bury ourselves in uncertainty or not make a decision.
It's saying, what do you have at your disposal? What are the resources that you have where you can feel empowered and in control. And it's still may not work out, but to your point, at least you can say I did everything I could exactly.
And that's totally what I realized I was asking of myself, like because I'm like, I can't. So there are more people who have not been born than born. You know, we realized that when you really try to have a baby, especially if you go through like the scientific component of it, you start to realize what a miracle it is that you're sitting here, because like if your mom would have coughed instead of sneezed, if she would have had a
coffee instead of tea, you know, like anything. Literally, like if your dad had a unibra and your mom was like not really unto your brows, you literally might not be here, you know, And so it's such a miracle. So you realize, like I knew that, but yeah, I just think I love this. I can't wait honestly for it to like like, I know you gave me the gap change the world, but honestly, I really I'm someone honestly I love like these days, I love to have
my physical book, but I can't wait. Are you reading the audiobook versus?
Oh yes, I just finished recording it, and one of the ways we wanted to make it extra special was to incorporate actual audio of people that I have interviewed from the podcast that I have exerted, so you get to hear their voices. You also hear me impersonating my parents, like your beautiful Nigerian accent from your parents. I have the Persian mom and the Persian dad, and it's just fun,
you know. I I'm not going to pretend that I'm going to be revolutionizing anything here, but I just hope that people will give themselves more credit and give their feelings more credit, and to know that we're all scared all the time. You can be scared and successful, you can be afraid and fulfilled that they're not. They don't cancel each other out and that you know, I'm living proof of that, and I am continuously terrified. Like there was a man taking photos of my house from his
car the other day. Wasn't the other day. It was during the pandemic, so even scarier. And I was like, oh my god, he's totally plotting a home invasion, like he is figuring out my routine. He was a home to me.
He's gonna say if I was the home appraiser, Like I was like, oh, that makes sense.
All the houses are selling on our block. It's the pandemic. That's what he's doing. Yes, because no actual home invader is going to be that out. So but that's me, you know, I'm still that terrified little girl inside, but I have just learned how to like play with it in a way that works for me instead of the other way around. Because I know fear does have that ability to run us rampant and make us doubt ourselves and feel stuck and insecure. This is not what I'm sam.
Fear can do.
All of those things, but and it can also be a tool, and it's our choice to decide what we're going to do with it.
Well, where can people get your book? A Healthy State of Panic?
All your favorite independent booksellers. I want to lead with that. I want to support our independence. But also if you can't, if you don't have access to an indie online everywhere you'd like to shop, you know, And if we're airing this before the pub date, which is October third, you can go to a Healthy Stateapanic dot com and submit your receipt and you'll get my free program. It's called Scared Smart and it's a three video course workbook plus
the introduction. I figured, why wait till October third to get a handle on your financial fears? So that's what that program walks you, walks you through and it's my thank you to those who want to support the pre sales.
I love it. So a Healthy State of Panic dot com will list all the places that people can purchase.
You can purchase it there, yeah, through there, and then that's also where you can submit for the bonuses.
I love that. And first of all, did you hear what she said? She didn't say? Go to ournews to Robbie dot com for sas two to nine one one one like some I've been talking to them all the time. I'm like, oh my goodness, if you don't go and pay the two dollars and the ten dollars for that you are around, Yeah, just do it, yes, because you know you get it for ten bucks. And then even if like let's just say a Healthy State of Panic,
which I can't believe you got. That's such an awesome name that it was available, right, but let's just say that wasn't available, you could buy a Healthy State of Panic book Like this is like.
Me like telling everything with a book, sure, you.
Know, like but like you can put a book after before whatever. But I just they know, I'm always getting on them that like when you're gonna do a thing, it's literally ten bucks buy the dag on ur l so people don't have to try to figure out like wait, you know, and so yes, I love that a Healthy Panic.
Do you ever get emails from like go daddy or whoever that's like you're your URLs are about to expire and it's like the ones that I bought in like two thousand and eight that I had an idea in the middle of the night and I just went and bought the and I was like, what was I even thinking? What is this site?
You know, I have one that's like what was it? It's like responsibility te for like T shirt because I was like, ooh, I'm gonna do I wanna do T shirts to have like these responsible messus.
Girl.
I was like, that was ten dollars not well spent, but either way, I got it. And so.
I mean it's a business expense. You can write it off, okay, And.
Literally it's typically the average you are around, unless it's like, you know, something like super super popular. It's about ten bucks for the year, and you don't have to set it on an automatic renewal. So I just tell people go ahead and get it, and then if you don't use it, that's fine. But a healthy datapanic dot com And for our news, where can they follow you on all the socials?
Well, you mean the social I'm really just on Instagram. I can't. I mean, I know there's threads now and of course TikTok and what's Facebook. But Instagram is like, again going back to my book, like the fear of exposure, like that's for my people crowd. I'm not going to be going bearing all on TikTok. You're never going to see me doing that. I've tried. It's not working. The algorithm and I are just like not mixing. And so Instagram at furnish to Rabbi, it's where I'm having a
lot of fun. Everyone there's very nice and that's how I.
Like to keep it. Yes, I love our news to Rabbi. F ar n O O s h to Robbie T spell it for me.
T O r A B I yes, you can read it is. But you know, there was a time many times in my life. Did you ever want to change your name?
I mean your name was Tiffany, but no, no, my name was actually Adochi and so I did change. My name is six.
So okay, I mean that makes sense. I my parents allowed me to change my name. I never went with the like I test a test ransom names. I was Ashley, Christina, Tina, Nikki. It's all Nikki's kind of cute it is, and it was I always like had in my mind a girl like I had a vision of a girl obviously like and Nikki was a real girl from my past life, past life like we had moved and the girl that I knew for my old town who was like super
super cool, like just like Kashmir sweaters. I mean like this girl had her style down and the parents loved her and the kids loved her, and I was like, I'm going to beat her.
Well, we glad just stayed for news. I mean, I'll say that, like I semi, I don't say I regret because well whatever, we're here now. But I tried to go back to Adochi and in college, and I remember why I changed it because no one can say it used to piss me off. And so like all I can tell how well you know me by or how
long you've known me by what you call me. Like there are every once in a while, I'll meet somebody from like elementary school, like you know, like I'll be at the Marshalls and somebody be like, oh my god, is that you Adochi? And I'm like, wait what because I changed it in sixth grade. I'm like, wait roads from second grade? Oh my god? So like yeah, so when I was sixth grade, ye, and my dad was like, you guys can pick a name, and so so Adote
is still my name, is my middle name. But yeah, I picked well at first, I wanted I think I wanted Crystal. I wanted Oh, there was something else that was like Renee, which I think I'd make a few Renee. That's a great name. It's like there was some other, like non sensual name, like I wanted Jenny, which girl, now, no shade to you Jenny's but I'm just.
I don't nicky to Jenny. I feel like I know.
But Tiffany I was just like my dad's like, Okay, that's a good name. So yeah, so I yeah, my name is I mean, like you know, if y'all want to call me a duty, just say it right, just call me Tiffany.
I mean, if you want some comedy. My brother, his name is Todd.
No, what was his other name? Was he born to Todd or does.
He have like yeah, it's his actually it's his middle name. But and it's your name is Ali, like literally every Middle Eastern boy who's born like that's going to be part of your name. But he went with Todd. And my parents changed their names when they became naturalized citizens. My dad is Adam, my mom is Sheila. I'm the only one who's stuck with the Iranian n it okay.
I love it though, because when we google you, we gonna find you, you know what I mean. I'm just glad that my last name is very unique, Alice, because then you know, when people look me up, like if my name was, like, you know, Tiffany Smith, then it doesn't like you know, but if I google for Anish to Robbie, it's only you.
Well, I don't know, but so it's so funny. I don't even know how I forgot to write about this in the book, but I'll share it here. It's an exclusive. The title of the book came out of a conversation with another far Nouche, one of the few Farniches I have ever met in the world. She and I found each other on Facebook. We met for a coffee. She lives in the South, I live up East. She was
visiting New York. We finally met for coffee and I said, and I actually had had her on my podcast because she is an author and has just a great career. But I said to her, and it was on the show, I said, if you had she's Iranian. Obviously as farnw she's Iranian. I said, if you had to describe your childhood the way your parents raised you, Like, how would
you describe it? Because we were finding all sorts of commonalities, you know, because you know, I can believe like children of immigrants girls Iranian And she said, uh, it was like a healthy state of fear or something like that, or like it was like a healthy dose of panic or something. And it wasn't exactly healthy state of panic. But I was like, I was like, far noush. I'm going to steal that for like the title of my
next book is that, okay? And actually have it recorded on my podcast, Like you can go and listen to that episode, and she said it's yours. I said, we are so two peas in a pod. And I'm such, yeah, it's like so much reinforcement to me that another farnuche born on a you know, different different parents, different part of the country, but still had that same like a bit of fear, born in the eighties. All of that. That that's how you would that's how you would sum
it up. Well, guess what that's going to be my book?
And she said, go for it. I called those god nods, you know, that's what I call Oh, yeah, you know, but I love that so par nous to Robbie follow her on Instagram. A Healthy state of Panic. If you want to learn how to lean into your fear and use it as a tool that it is, go to a Healthy State Ofpanic dot com. We encourage you, you know to support small book and bookstores and yeah far News, thank you so much coming on worse.
Thank you, Tiffany Well if you I mean, you know, we do.
The Baqa Produce has agreed to come and answer your raggedy questions. No just joking. So so if you listened in a couple of days, Baqa would come out and Produce is gonna come. She is one of the top minds in personal finance. She's gonna lead into some of your questions. Until next week, y'all, Bye bye, Hey, ba Fam.
We could not do this show without your support or the support of our team behind the scenes. The Brann Edition podcast is produced by Imani Crosby and Dennis Simplinsky is our in house tech guru. I am your co host Mandy Woodrif Santos, and we will see y'all next week. Ba Fam.